[04:12] <holstein> OvenWerks: i hope so
[04:36] <OvenWerks> holstein: dual monitors has been one of the missing links in our distro. Arandr has always been a temporary solution.
[04:36] <OvenWerks> At least I knew that :)
[04:36] <holstein> in xfce, it seems
[04:37] <OvenWerks> Ya, but at the time even in unity.
[04:38] <OvenWerks> I am still not completely happy with what unity does either, but it is more usable
[04:38] <holstein> well, it works
[04:38] <holstein> im not happy with unity much, but the tools function
[04:39] <OvenWerks> As long as you want their default. Unity has the man power
[04:39] <holstein> yup.. the dev team at work, and doing amazing things on short notice, i think
[04:41] <OvenWerks> I wonder what signal xorg sends when a second monitor shows up
[04:41] <holstein> we could ask the unity folks.. that works great in unity
[04:43] <OvenWerks> I am not sure if it is there or part of gnome.
[04:44] <holstein> thats true.. could just come from upstream
[04:44] <OvenWerks> unity is still based on the gnome libs/settings
[04:44] <holstein> for now...
[04:44] <holstein> wonder if that will change
[04:45] <OvenWerks> zequence should know if it works on gnome, he runs gnome shell
[04:45] <OvenWerks> I'll ask when next he is here.
[04:53] <OvenWerks> Actually I should just look in xorg
[05:53] <OvenWerks> Playing some more with xrandr and dual monitors.
[05:55] <OvenWerks> well I'm pretending, I can get this video card to think I have hotpluged a monitor in by loading the greeen channel.
[05:56] <OvenWerks> I can see the possitions with arandr or xrandr (one is visual and the other numbers
[05:58] <OvenWerks> Anyway, the unity default of --right-of is probably best. It keeps the pannel on the same monitor, going --left-of moves the pannel to the second monitor.
[12:33] <madeinkobaia> Hi all, does someone have some news from zequence ?
[13:45] <OvenWerks> madeinkobaia: I would guess that he went riding for the weekend and his server quit.
[13:46] <OvenWerks> yes it is unusual that he is not here
[14:01] <madeinkobaia> OvenWerks : Hi Len, thanks for the feedback. Hope everything is ok by him side.
[14:06] <OvenWerks> yup
[14:08] <OvenWerks> To be honest, it is good to think he is doing gomething other than looking at the computer
[14:50] <madeinkobaia> OvenWerks : Yep, for sure.
[14:57] <OvenWerks> zequence: do you ever use dual monitors?
[14:57] <zequence> Reinstalling server, so that's why I haven't been online
[14:57] <zequence> OvenWerks, I used to
[14:57] <zequence> Not since I started using my TV as a monitor
[14:58] <OvenWerks> I was wondering if gnome shell has the same display set up as unity
[14:58] <OvenWerks> Mainly if a hotpluged second monitor default to right-of
[14:58] <zequence> It used to be different anyway
[14:59] <zequence> Well, not in that way though
[14:59] <zequence> You need to set it to be right of
[14:59] <OvenWerks> I am wondering if there is any reason not to default to right-of
[15:00] <OvenWerks> That is is there any use case for mirror?
[15:00] <OvenWerks> (AKA same-as)
[15:01] <zequence> If there wasn't I don't think it would be given as an option
[15:01] <zequence> Also, it highly depends on your graphic card how you set that up
[15:02] <OvenWerks> I am thinking of free drivers (xrandr compatable)
[15:17] <OvenWerks> zequence: The mani plus I can see for same-as is that it doesn't change the screen size. (this is not strictly true but it has the least change anyway) It certainly uses the least amount of memory.
[17:10] <holstein> i think its interesting, on the heels of the open desktop support, to think about what cory was bringing up a few releases ago
[17:10] <holstein> not really having an actual "ubuntustudio".. but, what he said was PPA's
[17:11] <holstein> i didnt really understand that, since we couldnt be "official" and have ppa's.. but i was thinkin meta-packages
[17:11] <holstein> its something we could discuss..
[17:12] <holstein> it really upset me at the time, because we had only a few folks, and had scrambled to make iso testing happen, and put out some fires.. and he came in about 2 weeks before release time and made that suggestion
[17:12] <holstein> after we had already done all the work... but, i think its an interesting idea to entertain
[17:12] <holstein> just adding ubuntustudio to whatever distro you want
[17:12] <holstein> i dont think most folks understand how it works anyways.. like the last question in the support channel.. "running ubuntustudio on nonPAE"
[17:13] <holstein> any, google search of ubuntu and nonPAE brings up tons of information... but if folks dont (and i really think they dont) realize that ubuntustudio *is* ubuntu, then i think its unclear where to look for help
[17:14] <holstein> not that going to meta-packages necessarily would simplify that and bring any clarity
[17:14] <holstein> the other option would be to have ubuntutsudio-unity, ubuntustudio-gnome.. iso's and meta packages
[17:15] <holstein> i dont think we have the man-power for that right now.. though the way it is suggested in the list makes sense.. if you want to test and support it, we can have it
[17:31] <OvenWerks> holstein: I think we are trying for a middle road :)
[17:31] <OvenWerks> We really would like (and our users would like) to be able to offer custom installs
[17:32] <OvenWerks> That is, not having to install all of the workflows, just those you need.
[17:32] <OvenWerks> The DE options would be an extension of that.
[17:33] <OvenWerks> holstein: TBH, one of the biggest problems we have with the audio Workflow and installing it on other flavours... is getting RT/low latency to work OOTB
[17:34] <OvenWerks> I really don't know how this applies to othger workflows like video.
[17:36] <OvenWerks> I don't know if anyone in the linux world has really spent time optimizing a machine for video work (creation) aside from the game boys
[17:36] <holstein> OvenWerks: i like the middle road, but i was just thinking, if it solved all the issues, and helped us, since we are small-ish
[17:36] <holstein> what we do is challenging
[17:37] <holstein> OvenWerks: getting that working on OSX ootb is challenging
[17:37] <holstein> on windows.. etc
[17:37] <OvenWerks> There are reatively few apps that use video realtime
[17:37] <holstein> the other OS's typically dont even have that option.. the "major" ones right now
[17:37] <holstein> iso and android for example
[17:37] <OvenWerks> Making Studio metas work right with other flavours could be chalenging too
[17:37] <holstein> what we are taking on, strictly from a complete outside perspective is challenging
[17:38] <OvenWerks> Yes.
[17:39] <OvenWerks> Packaging a DE meta allows control of things that might affect HW performance.
[17:40] <OvenWerks> The downside is that the flavours come with a better asortment of desktop apps, but we would have to ship something pretty stripped as we do with xfce
[18:10] <DarkEra> A Studio distro shouldn't come with loads of desktop apps, so stripped down would be better
[18:11] <holstein> well, thats arguable, and comes up a lot
[18:14] <OvenWerks> DarkEra: holstein, if we are shipping DE metas they will have to stripped down. The question is where to draw that line.
[18:14] <OvenWerks> zequence: I think I am going to revive the ubuntustudio-menu meta.
[18:15] <OvenWerks> My thinking is that we should be able to leave the DE menu setup mostly alone
[18:16] <OvenWerks> We just want to replace multi-media, graphics etc. with our workflow bit.
[18:16] <OvenWerks> Also I think people still install that meta expecting our new menu to be there
[18:43] <OvenWerks> holstein: would it be worthwhile adding extra app installers for some of the desktop stuff we don't ship?
[18:43] <holstein> OvenWerks: maybe.. i mean, the software center *is* that app
[18:43] <OvenWerks> Should they be distro specific?
[18:43] <holstein> i think we should focus on the distro that we like, and support, and making that work well
[18:44] <OvenWerks> USC is big ugly and slow... hope it gets better
[18:44] <holstein> and go from there, as needed
[18:46] <OvenWerks> Ya everything has to work with xfce.
[18:54] <OvenWerks> Just as a point of interest... Some of the packages like blender that crash X on studio seem to work fine in KDE
[18:54] <OvenWerks> Same machine.
[18:56] <holstein> also, is qt where we are heading?
[18:56] <holstein> in general?
[18:56] <OvenWerks> We? Ubuntu? It seems that way
[18:56] <OvenWerks> debian? I don't know.
[18:57] <holstein> thats true...
[18:57] <OvenWerks> Studio has to be able to run whatever the workflow items come in.
[18:57] <OvenWerks> Some apps can be picked and chosen by the lib they use because there is more than one
[18:58] <OvenWerks> I can't see us not including ardour because of what libs it uses though
[18:58] <OvenWerks> (as a quick example)
[18:59] <OvenWerks> I know mudita24 is not QT, but I need it for my sound card
[19:00] <holstein> right
[19:02] <holstein> im installing antergos right now... the new cinnarch
[19:03] <holstein> you get to choose from gnome, cinnamon, xfce and razorQT
[19:03] <holstein> the installer lets you choose that
[19:03] <holstein> suse does something like that as well.. i think thats a great idea, though, i can imagine the support gets challenging
[19:04] <OvenWerks> Thats what we want to do, but are hoping to lean on the ubuntu flavour pretty heavy I think.
[19:05] <OvenWerks> In other words our KDE, for example, will try to be as close to kubuntu as it can just with a few less apps
[19:06] <OvenWerks> xubuntu is already talking about offering a minimal and a "full" version as two isos
[19:07]  * OvenWerks doesn't know how far from dream it is though
[19:09] <OvenWerks> holstein: from my POV, it would be great to have a meta that just fixes the RT/lowlatency stuff in the other flavours. Then just install Studio on top.
[19:11] <OvenWerks> Our ISO would then be xfce. An install time option could install kubuntu, gubuntu, lubuntu or ubuntu metas along with it.
[19:13] <OvenWerks> zequence: I was wondering if we could use a "replaces" in our low latency kernel?
[19:13] <holstein> OvenWerks: im unclear why its not working
[19:13] <holstein> OvenWerks: seems like if someone installs JACK, that should just happen
[19:14] <holstein> jack, or the lowlatency kernel
[19:14] <OvenWerks> Ya, but from the support channel it seems not.
[19:14] <holstein> OvenWerks: and ardour
[19:14] <holstein> the #ardour channel*
[19:15] <OvenWerks> We need more people, it takes time to install a flavour, install packages on top then test and trouble shoot
[19:15] <holstein> yup
[19:16] <holstein> im fine with volunteers coming along to help with each
[19:16] <holstein> i might be able to head up LXDE.. i do a lot with another LXDE distro
[19:16] <OvenWerks> Sure. That should be the easiest
[19:16] <holstein> maybe we can talk falk into the KDE one
[19:17] <holstein> get zequence on the gnome one
[19:17] <holstein> OvenWerks: someone should look are razorQT
[19:17] <holstein> is mate coming? or going?
[19:17] <OvenWerks> falktx tends to want to hack at too many stock KDE apps.
[19:18] <OvenWerks> I would concider mate not an option. I would rather support cinnamon
[19:18] <holstein> thats where i am as well, though cinammon might be on the way out
[19:19] <OvenWerks> Luke (from the mailing list) want to do a cinnamon version.
[19:19] <holstein> i like that idea
[19:19] <OvenWerks> It could always turn into a gnome classic which may replace it
[19:19] <DarkEra> cinnamon is great but on the other hand just a fork of gnome3/gnome shell
[19:20] <holstein> chich could make it easier to deal with
[19:20] <holstein> which*
[19:20] <OvenWerks> I know. But at least it uses up to date libs
[19:20] <holstein> hey.. if someone wants to support it, i say let em
[19:21] <DarkEra> i don't have a problem with it :)
[19:21] <OvenWerks> I think a lot of the stuff made for it would work with gnome 3 in classic mode anyway... (with the classic extension I guess)
[19:22] <DarkEra> you should ask glebihan about that, he's involved in mint
[19:22] <DarkEra> and cinnamon
[19:23] <OvenWerks> Too far down my list :) I will probably work on kde and maybe some lxde if needed
[19:24] <DarkEra> hehehe :)
[19:24] <OvenWerks> I have partitions for xfce, lxde and kde on here now
[19:25] <DarkEra> how big are the partitions?
[19:25] <DarkEra> i might need to add some myself soon, that's why i ask :)
[19:25] <holstein> for a testing install? 8 or 10 should do.. depends on what you want in there
[19:27] <DarkEra> once Gnome 3 saucy is fixed i need to set up another one for sure 
[19:27] <OvenWerks> They are all about 20g
[19:27] <DarkEra> OvenWerks, ok, cool :)
[19:28] <OvenWerks> I made them a bit bigger that needed in case I want to add some development stuff
[19:28] <holstein> with 20, you could test some audio sessions too, if needed
[19:29] <holstein> i think im going to setup some minimal ubuntu sessions in vbox on my big rig
[19:29] <OvenWerks> kubuntu for example is using 38%
[19:29] <OvenWerks> I have added the video meta so far
[19:31] <DarkEra> if my netbook wasn't so weak i would use that for dev stuff
[19:33] <OvenWerks> Thats where I do mine.
[19:33] <OvenWerks> But I do mostly settings and meta creation
[19:33] <OvenWerks> text stuff
[19:37] <DarkEra> what kind of netbook is it you have?
[19:43] <OvenWerks> Acer about 2-3 years old
[19:43] <OvenWerks> 1G mem, 1.6Ghz single core
[19:45] <DarkEra> aspire one 150 ZG5?
[19:49] <OvenWerks> No, it a 250
[19:49] <OvenWerks> The fix for display not working that works for the 150 doesn't work for me :P
[21:30] <zequence> I'm kind of starting to think perhaps offering settings for all DEs would be better than supplying metas for them
[21:31] <zequence> And, there's a slight difference between the flavor meta, and the DE meta
[21:32] <zequence> Like, there's a meta for XFCE, and one for Xubuntu desktop
[21:32] <zequence> Also, KDE, and Kubuntu
[21:32] <zequence> et
[21:32] <zequence> etc
[21:32] <zequence> Well, just a thought so far
[22:06] <OvenWerks> zequence: It would certainly be nice to be able to just use what is available.
[22:11] <OvenWerks> zequence: either the free nvidio driver has been fixed or I have had a problem with our xfce install. It seems that any of the apps I have not been able to run in studio work ok in kubuntu.
[22:12] <OvenWerks> I have yet to install the lowlatency kernel, thats next
[23:16] <OvenWerks> zequence: kernel in kubuntu 3.9.0-2-generic, ours is 3.8.0-19-lowlatency?
[23:21] <OvenWerks> Huh, Jack won't start RT... Nothing in our meta install to add the user to audio. Can we add that to the audio meta install script?
[23:54] <OvenWerks> Kmix is harder to change PA sink on than pavucontrol