[04:12] OvenWerks: i hope so [04:36] holstein: dual monitors has been one of the missing links in our distro. Arandr has always been a temporary solution. [04:36] At least I knew that :) [04:36] in xfce, it seems [04:37] Ya, but at the time even in unity. [04:38] I am still not completely happy with what unity does either, but it is more usable [04:38] well, it works [04:38] im not happy with unity much, but the tools function [04:39] As long as you want their default. Unity has the man power [04:39] yup.. the dev team at work, and doing amazing things on short notice, i think [04:41] I wonder what signal xorg sends when a second monitor shows up [04:41] we could ask the unity folks.. that works great in unity [04:43] I am not sure if it is there or part of gnome. [04:44] thats true.. could just come from upstream [04:44] unity is still based on the gnome libs/settings [04:44] for now... [04:44] wonder if that will change [04:45] zequence should know if it works on gnome, he runs gnome shell [04:45] I'll ask when next he is here. [04:53] Actually I should just look in xorg [05:53] Playing some more with xrandr and dual monitors. [05:55] well I'm pretending, I can get this video card to think I have hotpluged a monitor in by loading the greeen channel. [05:56] I can see the possitions with arandr or xrandr (one is visual and the other numbers [05:58] Anyway, the unity default of --right-of is probably best. It keeps the pannel on the same monitor, going --left-of moves the pannel to the second monitor. [12:33] Hi all, does someone have some news from zequence ? [13:45] madeinkobaia: I would guess that he went riding for the weekend and his server quit. [13:46] yes it is unusual that he is not here [14:01] OvenWerks : Hi Len, thanks for the feedback. Hope everything is ok by him side. [14:06] yup [14:08] To be honest, it is good to think he is doing gomething other than looking at the computer [14:50] OvenWerks : Yep, for sure. [14:57] zequence: do you ever use dual monitors? [14:57] Reinstalling server, so that's why I haven't been online [14:57] OvenWerks, I used to [14:57] Not since I started using my TV as a monitor [14:58] I was wondering if gnome shell has the same display set up as unity [14:58] Mainly if a hotpluged second monitor default to right-of [14:58] It used to be different anyway [14:59] Well, not in that way though [14:59] You need to set it to be right of [14:59] I am wondering if there is any reason not to default to right-of [15:00] That is is there any use case for mirror? [15:00] (AKA same-as) [15:01] If there wasn't I don't think it would be given as an option [15:01] Also, it highly depends on your graphic card how you set that up [15:02] I am thinking of free drivers (xrandr compatable) [15:17] zequence: The mani plus I can see for same-as is that it doesn't change the screen size. (this is not strictly true but it has the least change anyway) It certainly uses the least amount of memory. [17:10] i think its interesting, on the heels of the open desktop support, to think about what cory was bringing up a few releases ago [17:10] not really having an actual "ubuntustudio".. but, what he said was PPA's [17:11] i didnt really understand that, since we couldnt be "official" and have ppa's.. but i was thinkin meta-packages [17:11] its something we could discuss.. [17:12] it really upset me at the time, because we had only a few folks, and had scrambled to make iso testing happen, and put out some fires.. and he came in about 2 weeks before release time and made that suggestion [17:12] after we had already done all the work... but, i think its an interesting idea to entertain [17:12] just adding ubuntustudio to whatever distro you want [17:12] i dont think most folks understand how it works anyways.. like the last question in the support channel.. "running ubuntustudio on nonPAE" [17:13] any, google search of ubuntu and nonPAE brings up tons of information... but if folks dont (and i really think they dont) realize that ubuntustudio *is* ubuntu, then i think its unclear where to look for help [17:14] not that going to meta-packages necessarily would simplify that and bring any clarity [17:14] the other option would be to have ubuntutsudio-unity, ubuntustudio-gnome.. iso's and meta packages [17:15] i dont think we have the man-power for that right now.. though the way it is suggested in the list makes sense.. if you want to test and support it, we can have it [17:31] holstein: I think we are trying for a middle road :) [17:31] We really would like (and our users would like) to be able to offer custom installs [17:32] That is, not having to install all of the workflows, just those you need. [17:32] The DE options would be an extension of that. [17:33] holstein: TBH, one of the biggest problems we have with the audio Workflow and installing it on other flavours... is getting RT/low latency to work OOTB [17:34] I really don't know how this applies to othger workflows like video. [17:36] I don't know if anyone in the linux world has really spent time optimizing a machine for video work (creation) aside from the game boys [17:36] OvenWerks: i like the middle road, but i was just thinking, if it solved all the issues, and helped us, since we are small-ish [17:36] what we do is challenging [17:37] OvenWerks: getting that working on OSX ootb is challenging [17:37] on windows.. etc [17:37] There are reatively few apps that use video realtime [17:37] the other OS's typically dont even have that option.. the "major" ones right now [17:37] iso and android for example [17:37] Making Studio metas work right with other flavours could be chalenging too [17:37] what we are taking on, strictly from a complete outside perspective is challenging [17:38] Yes. [17:39] Packaging a DE meta allows control of things that might affect HW performance. [17:40] The downside is that the flavours come with a better asortment of desktop apps, but we would have to ship something pretty stripped as we do with xfce [18:10] A Studio distro shouldn't come with loads of desktop apps, so stripped down would be better [18:11] well, thats arguable, and comes up a lot [18:14] DarkEra: holstein, if we are shipping DE metas they will have to stripped down. The question is where to draw that line. [18:14] zequence: I think I am going to revive the ubuntustudio-menu meta. [18:15] My thinking is that we should be able to leave the DE menu setup mostly alone [18:16] We just want to replace multi-media, graphics etc. with our workflow bit. [18:16] Also I think people still install that meta expecting our new menu to be there [18:43] holstein: would it be worthwhile adding extra app installers for some of the desktop stuff we don't ship? [18:43] OvenWerks: maybe.. i mean, the software center *is* that app [18:43] Should they be distro specific? [18:43] i think we should focus on the distro that we like, and support, and making that work well [18:44] USC is big ugly and slow... hope it gets better [18:44] and go from there, as needed [18:46] Ya everything has to work with xfce. [18:54] Just as a point of interest... Some of the packages like blender that crash X on studio seem to work fine in KDE [18:54] Same machine. [18:56] also, is qt where we are heading? [18:56] in general? [18:56] We? Ubuntu? It seems that way [18:56] debian? I don't know. [18:57] thats true... [18:57] Studio has to be able to run whatever the workflow items come in. [18:57] Some apps can be picked and chosen by the lib they use because there is more than one [18:58] I can't see us not including ardour because of what libs it uses though [18:58] (as a quick example) [18:59] I know mudita24 is not QT, but I need it for my sound card [19:00] right [19:02] im installing antergos right now... the new cinnarch [19:03] you get to choose from gnome, cinnamon, xfce and razorQT [19:03] the installer lets you choose that [19:03] suse does something like that as well.. i think thats a great idea, though, i can imagine the support gets challenging [19:04] Thats what we want to do, but are hoping to lean on the ubuntu flavour pretty heavy I think. [19:05] In other words our KDE, for example, will try to be as close to kubuntu as it can just with a few less apps [19:06] xubuntu is already talking about offering a minimal and a "full" version as two isos [19:07] * OvenWerks doesn't know how far from dream it is though [19:09] holstein: from my POV, it would be great to have a meta that just fixes the RT/lowlatency stuff in the other flavours. Then just install Studio on top. [19:11] Our ISO would then be xfce. An install time option could install kubuntu, gubuntu, lubuntu or ubuntu metas along with it. [19:13] zequence: I was wondering if we could use a "replaces" in our low latency kernel? [19:13] OvenWerks: im unclear why its not working [19:13] OvenWerks: seems like if someone installs JACK, that should just happen [19:14] jack, or the lowlatency kernel [19:14] Ya, but from the support channel it seems not. [19:14] OvenWerks: and ardour [19:14] the #ardour channel* [19:15] We need more people, it takes time to install a flavour, install packages on top then test and trouble shoot [19:15] yup [19:16] im fine with volunteers coming along to help with each [19:16] i might be able to head up LXDE.. i do a lot with another LXDE distro [19:16] Sure. That should be the easiest [19:16] maybe we can talk falk into the KDE one [19:17] get zequence on the gnome one [19:17] OvenWerks: someone should look are razorQT [19:17] is mate coming? or going? [19:17] falktx tends to want to hack at too many stock KDE apps. [19:18] I would concider mate not an option. I would rather support cinnamon [19:18] thats where i am as well, though cinammon might be on the way out [19:19] Luke (from the mailing list) want to do a cinnamon version. [19:19] i like that idea [19:19] It could always turn into a gnome classic which may replace it [19:19] cinnamon is great but on the other hand just a fork of gnome3/gnome shell [19:20] chich could make it easier to deal with [19:20] which* [19:20] I know. But at least it uses up to date libs [19:20] hey.. if someone wants to support it, i say let em [19:21] i don't have a problem with it :) [19:21] I think a lot of the stuff made for it would work with gnome 3 in classic mode anyway... (with the classic extension I guess) [19:22] you should ask glebihan about that, he's involved in mint [19:22] and cinnamon [19:23] Too far down my list :) I will probably work on kde and maybe some lxde if needed [19:24] hehehe :) [19:24] I have partitions for xfce, lxde and kde on here now [19:25] how big are the partitions? [19:25] i might need to add some myself soon, that's why i ask :) [19:25] for a testing install? 8 or 10 should do.. depends on what you want in there [19:27] once Gnome 3 saucy is fixed i need to set up another one for sure [19:27] They are all about 20g [19:27] OvenWerks, ok, cool :) [19:28] I made them a bit bigger that needed in case I want to add some development stuff [19:28] with 20, you could test some audio sessions too, if needed [19:29] i think im going to setup some minimal ubuntu sessions in vbox on my big rig [19:29] kubuntu for example is using 38% [19:29] I have added the video meta so far [19:31] if my netbook wasn't so weak i would use that for dev stuff [19:33] Thats where I do mine. [19:33] But I do mostly settings and meta creation [19:33] text stuff [19:37] what kind of netbook is it you have? [19:43] Acer about 2-3 years old [19:43] 1G mem, 1.6Ghz single core [19:45] aspire one 150 ZG5? [19:49] No, it a 250 [19:49] The fix for display not working that works for the 150 doesn't work for me :P [21:30] I'm kind of starting to think perhaps offering settings for all DEs would be better than supplying metas for them [21:31] And, there's a slight difference between the flavor meta, and the DE meta [21:32] Like, there's a meta for XFCE, and one for Xubuntu desktop [21:32] Also, KDE, and Kubuntu [21:32] et [21:32] etc [21:32] Well, just a thought so far [22:06] zequence: It would certainly be nice to be able to just use what is available. [22:11] zequence: either the free nvidio driver has been fixed or I have had a problem with our xfce install. It seems that any of the apps I have not been able to run in studio work ok in kubuntu. [22:12] I have yet to install the lowlatency kernel, thats next [23:16] zequence: kernel in kubuntu 3.9.0-2-generic, ours is 3.8.0-19-lowlatency? [23:21] Huh, Jack won't start RT... Nothing in our meta install to add the user to audio. Can we add that to the audio meta install script? [23:54] Kmix is harder to change PA sink on than pavucontrol