[00:00] <OvenWerks> I suppose once you know how it is ok.
[00:02] <OvenWerks> Access is faster
[00:17] <DarkEra> OvenWerks, kubuntu saucy?
[00:27] <OvenWerks> Ya, saucy
[00:33] <DarkEra> i believe i got the 3.9.0-2 generic kernel too on my ubuntu studio saucy dev partition, no lowlatency yet
[00:48] <OvenWerks> That shouldn't be.
[00:49] <OvenWerks> You should get lowlatency even if it's old
[00:49] <OvenWerks> The only reason I have generic is because it is a kubuntu install
[01:15] <OvenWerks> zequence: Another idea... A ubuntustudio-install package
[01:15] <DarkEra> i'll check on that tomorrow to make sure what kernel it is and let you know
[01:16] <OvenWerks> zequence: the idea is, install a ubuntu flavour
[01:16] <OvenWerks> DarkEra: ok, I will check my ubuntustudio install too
[01:16] <OvenWerks> zequence: install the ubuntustudio-install package.
[01:17] <OvenWerks> zequence: a menu item shows up in the system submenu
[01:17] <OvenWerks> zequence: starting it gives a gui that list the workflows.
[01:18] <DarkEra> since i'm still awake i might do so right away, i'll be right back
[01:18] <OvenWerks> zequence: the user checks the boxes they what to install or unchecks ones they want removed (might be more dangerous)
[01:19] <OvenWerks> Hits go/install/whatever and the user gets put in audio (or whatever) group. The flag is set to yes for jack RT and the install gets done.
[01:21] <DarkEra> OvenWerks, 3.9.0-2-generic #7-Ubuntu SMP Mon May 20 14:23:48 UTC 2013 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux
[01:22] <OvenWerks> It could even be done like the msfonts installer where installing it runs the installer dialog.
[01:22] <OvenWerks> Darkera, I'll check here
[01:22] <DarkEra> ok, thanks
[01:23] <OvenWerks> I have 3.8.0-19-lowlatency
[01:24] <DarkEra> that one is still showing in grub too
[01:24] <OvenWerks> VERSION="UbuntuStudio 13.10, Saucy Salamander"
[01:25] <OvenWerks> I haven't booted, just looking at the files in /boot on that partition and /etc/os-version
[01:25] <OvenWerks> But I do not have any generic kernel.
[01:26] <OvenWerks> There are some things that do load in the generic though.
[01:26] <OvenWerks> and once you do, the highest number becomes default
[01:27] <DarkEra> VERSION="13.10, Saucy Salamander"
[01:27] <OvenWerks> We need to add a rule to the grub tree that if jackd is installed, low latency is always default
[01:27] <DarkEra> weird it pulled in the generic kernel
[01:28] <OvenWerks> If you run synaptic and search linux
[01:29] <OvenWerks> actually search linux-generic.
[01:30] <OvenWerks> if you right click on it (in the window below) and select properties
[01:30] <OvenWerks> The second tab is Dependencies
[01:31] <DarkEra> ok, got it
[01:31] <OvenWerks> The button at the top is a drop down menu that you can select Dependants
[01:31] <OvenWerks> Those are the things that depend on generic
[01:32] <OvenWerks> I have linux-server, linux-generic-pae and linux
[01:32] <OvenWerks> (remember this is a kubuntu install)
[01:32] <DarkEra> it shows linux-generic, linux-server and linux
[01:33] <OvenWerks> So you need to see if any of those are installed. Linux isn't here
[01:33] <DarkEra> this was a 13.04 ubuntu studio install that was upgraded to the development cycle 
[01:33] <OvenWerks> That may be part of it. If so that is a bug.
[01:34] <DarkEra> linux-generic is installed, linux-server not from what i can see
[01:35] <OvenWerks> I am seeing the same things here
[01:36] <OvenWerks> I have generic, but none of the dependants are installed.
[01:36] <OvenWerks> I guess that method is not too good.
[01:37] <OvenWerks> I wonder if it is the upgrader
[01:37] <OvenWerks> Distrobution-upgrade may pull in the standard kernel for the new version.
[01:38] <OvenWerks> zequence: ^^^
[01:39] <DarkEra> should i remove them or just let it be as is for now
[01:40] <OvenWerks> You can remove linux
[01:40] <OvenWerks> But that is up to you
[01:40] <OvenWerks> It works fine as is, but you need to boot from the menu under the default for lowlatency
[01:42] <DarkEra> ok, i'll look into that later on when i'm up again. getting late here... or early... lol
[01:42] <DarkEra> 3:43 am
[01:42] <OvenWerks> Late any way you look at it.
[01:42] <OvenWerks> GN
[01:42] <DarkEra> chat you later and thanks again for the guidance 
[01:43] <OvenWerks> No problem
[01:56] <madeinkobaia> See you all : )
[01:56] <OvenWerks> Bye
[01:56] <madeinkobaia> By Len : )
[03:05] <OvenWerks> zequence: Another idea... menus this time.
[03:06] <OvenWerks> Right now we use a layout with our workflows near the top and our Studio info submenu at the bottom.
[03:07] <OvenWerks> Because of the way other DE menus are put together it may make more sense to add it at the top or bottom of our workflow section.
[03:08] <OvenWerks> It doesn't matter so much if we are building our own DE meta, but if we want to add the menu to a flavour it may help.
[06:10] <zequence> OvenWerks, There is something weird happening with the -generic kernel, and I have no idea why it is pulled in
[06:11] <zequence> OvenWerks, About the audio group, my intention is to fix that not only for Ubuntu Studio, but for Debian + Ubuntu, to make sure installing jack is all that is required in order to get realtime
[06:11] <zequence> It's impossible to administer groups for users using installers
[06:11] <zequence> Not technically, but policy wise
[06:12] <zequence> At least, not automatically
[06:12] <zequence> One needs a tool for that, where the user is informed and allowed to choose
[06:19] <OvenWerks> Tool = installer?
[06:20] <OvenWerks> Re -generic, I think what is happening is that as part of the standard distro-upgrade, the new kernel is installed.
[06:40] <OvenWerks> zequence: where in the seeds is our kernel? Used to be in desktop...
[06:46] <OvenWerks> If the seeds are the metas that an upgrade uses and there is no kernel in the seeds/metas, does the distro upgrade sw install the generic kernel because there is nothing else?
[06:47] <OvenWerks> zequence: ^^
[06:57] <zequence> OvenWerks, I really don't know why it is pulled in. Haven't thoroughly investigated
[06:57] <zequence> The tool could be a part of the installer, sure
[06:58] <zequence> But, I'd rather fix the way realtime is administered. It would make it so we don't need a tool
[06:59] <zequence> I've been working on a realtime privilege administering tool for -controls, but I'm hoping I won't need to add it
[07:07] <zequence> phew, I've been sick, like poisoned for more than a day now. Starting to come back to life
[10:01] <astraljava> Uhh... that sounds nasty. What happened?
[14:59] <OvenWerks> zequence: you have been timing out
[15:00] <OvenWerks> I have looked at the do-release-upgrade code as best I can
[15:00] <OvenWerks> https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu-release-upgrade
[15:01] <OvenWerks> It seems to be pretty much meta based from what I can tell.
[15:01] <OvenWerks> We have no kernel in any of our metas or in our seeds anywhere
[15:02] <OvenWerks> The ISO still includes it so I don't know where it gets speced
[15:03] <OvenWerks> Anyway, do-release-upgrade, only mentions the kernel in one place and it is about removing old ones. It does show the variants it removes and RT is included, but low latency is not
[15:06] <OvenWerks> It may be that it uses the remove variants to decide what it can replace it with.
[15:08] <OvenWerks> sorry, it calls them types.
[15:11] <OvenWerks> Also, It is interesting that in removal_blacklist.cfg, all of the other flavour-desktop metas are mentioned, but not ubuntustudio
[15:12] <OvenWerks> that may have to be so until the gnome2 DE is no longer supported ??
[15:15] <OvenWerks> The metas that a studio upgrade is based on are ubuntustudio-desktop, ubuntustudio-default-settings, ubuntustudio-look and no others.
[15:17] <OvenWerks> That should mean that any other metas are not release specific. This means that if ubuntustudio-recording is installed in 12.04 and we add an app to it in 13.10, that the 12.04 install would try to upgrade to the new meta... Or should.
[15:20] <OvenWerks> zequence: I am dumping all this in an email
[18:53] <zequence> OvenWerks, Seems like we need to understand how the ISO is done better. I know that audio group is only added when installing from ISO, but haven't taken the time to find out how
[20:59] <OvenWerks> Well, I am installing precise now and will upgrade to 1304. I will check what I end up with.
[21:00] <OvenWerks> Package wise
[21:17] <OvenWerks> Have to update the install first :)
[21:17] <OvenWerks> 186 updates
[21:24] <OvenWerks> comes with low-latency
[21:46] <OvenWerks> do-release-upgrade -d gets me from P to Q. Descroption shows lowlatency kernel
[21:46] <OvenWerks> maybe it will only be a problem from R to S
[21:47] <OvenWerks> I will try them all
[21:48] <OvenWerks> I think S does not have a new kernel yet, that may be why.
[21:57] <zequence> OvenWerks, From what I've seen, just installing 32bit gets you -generic kernel
[21:57] <zequence> So, not just from upgrading
[21:57] <zequence> And it may not be the same on 32bit and 64bit
[21:58] <OvenWerks> So far all of my installs have been low latency.
[21:58] <zequence> OvenWerks, Yes, lowlatency and* -generic in the case of 32bit
[21:58] <zequence> Check /boot for configs
[21:59] <OvenWerks> ls /media/b98b7106-e426-4dae-bd0b-978f70936e2c/boot/
[21:59] <OvenWerks> abi-3.8.0-19-lowlatency         memtest86+.bin
[21:59] <OvenWerks> config-3.8.0-19-lowlatency      memtest86+_multiboot.bin
[21:59] <OvenWerks> grub                            System.map-3.8.0-19-lowlatency
[21:59] <OvenWerks> initrd.img-3.8.0-19-lowlatency  vmlinuz-3.8.0-19-lowlatency
[22:00] <zequence> Ok, so not in the case of raring
[22:00] <OvenWerks> Thats 13.10 straight install
[22:00] <zequence> Oh, saucy then
[22:00] <zequence> I've only checked precise and quantal
[22:00] <OvenWerks> precice was correct too
[22:01] <zequence> Well, for some reason, I had -generic installed on 32bit. I have no idea why, but it happened, both on Precise and Quantal
[22:02] <zequence> This was some time ago I had a look at that last
[22:02] <zequence> Many months
[22:02] <OvenWerks> precise was install plus all the updates to now. So it now has two lowlatency kernels.
[22:03] <OvenWerks> I haven't had that happen on any installs, that is why I thought maybe upgrades