[15:00]  * slangasek waves
[15:01] <jodh> o/
[15:01] <slangasek> #startmeeting
[15:01] <meetingology> Meeting started Wed May 29 15:01:56 2013 UTC.  The chair is slangasek. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
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[15:02] <slangasek> [TOPIC] Lightning round
[15:02] <slangasek> $ echo $(shuf -e barry doko stgraber jodh ev bdmurray slangasek cjwatson xnox stokachu)
[15:02] <slangasek> jodh barry slangasek ev stgraber stokachu cjwatson bdmurray doko xnox
[15:02]  * slangasek starts the stopwatch
[15:03] <jodh> * misc:
[15:03] <jodh>   - Bank Holiday Monday and half day Tuesday.
[15:03] <jodh>   - Fix for Upstart logger bug reported by stgraber now committed.
[15:03] <jodh>   - Registered for DebConf13 and arranged travel.
[15:03] <jodh>   - Reworked
[15:03] <jodh>     lp:~jamesodhunt/ubuntu/saucy/sysvinit/log-processes-and-open-files-on-shutdown.
[15:03] <jodh>   - Reworked lp:~jamesodhunt/upstart/serialise-remaining-objects.
[15:03] <jodh>   - Reworking lp:~jamesodhunt/upstart/allow-multiple-cmdline-confdirs
[15:03] <jodh>     based on feedback from stgraber to allow some actual init
[15:03] <jodh>     command-line tests to be written.
[15:03] <jodh> * foundations-1305-upstart-app-launching
[15:03] <jodh>   - Raised MP for lp:~jamesodhunt/upstart/libupstart
[15:03] <jodh>   - Merged lp:~mdeslaur/upstart/apparmor-support.
[15:03] <jodh> ⫸
[15:03] <jodh>  
[15:03] <barry> short week due to usa holiday monday
[15:03] <barry> merges, updates, patch piloting: codespeak-lib, pytest, pyflakes3, zope.interfaces, natilus-python
[15:03] <barry> bugs: lp: #1173704, lp: #1069019 (reviewed), lp: #1170017 (continuing)
[15:04] <barry> image based upgrades: catchup w/lifeless & stgraber.  gpg regime discussion
[15:04] <barry> todo: continue implementation of new gpg regime
[15:04] <barry> done
[15:04] <slangasek>  * short week due to Memorial Day in the US
[15:04] <slangasek>  * slow week, still recovering from plane plague
[15:04] <slangasek>  * reviews finished
[15:04] <slangasek>  * new skype uploaded to partner
[15:04] <slangasek>  * DebConf travel plans all sorted out
[15:04] <slangasek>  * LPC travel plans to be finalized this week
[15:04] <slangasek>  * fixed sysvinit regression (invoke-rc.d) cascading from a fix to debhelper to make sure we actually call invoke-rc.d for packages that ship an upstart job but not an initscript; this unfortunately broke builds for a day
[15:05] <slangasek> (done)
[15:05] <ev> - Worked with Katherine and Neil to get the NDA for https://errors.ubuntu.com
[15:05] <ev>   written and published:
[15:05] <ev>   https://forms.canonical.com/reports/
[15:05] <ev> - Drafted an announcement of the NDA to ubuntu-devel@.u.c. Waiting on some peer
[15:05] <ev>   review from Matthew.
[15:05] <ev> - Created a package that purposefully fails in its postinst, creating an apport
[15:05] <ev>   package installation failure report. Modified apport-test-crashes to install
[15:05] <ev>   this in a fakechroot and include the apport report in its output. I just need
[15:05] <ev>   to add this to the integration test now.
[15:05] <ev> - Simplified the design of our Tarmac machinery. It was taking too long to
[15:05] <ev>   cover all the corner cases in tearing down the world with each deployment
[15:05] <ev>   attempt. Instead, we start with a deployed set of charms and the Tarmac
[15:05] <ev>   instance uses the upgrade-charm functionality (that we created for use in
[15:05] <ev>   stagingstack) to deploy the code from the MP.
[15:05] <ev> - Finished the above and deployed it. It works \o/:
[15:05] <ev>   http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~daisy-pluckers/daisy/trunk/revision/349
[15:06] <ev> - Investigating the creation of a "What's unusual about this error?" section to
[15:06] <ev>   the problem page:
[15:06] <ev>   https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ErrorTracker#A.2BIBw-What.2BIBk-s_unusual_about_this_error.2BIB0-
[15:06] <ev>   Started work on surfacing common dependencies between the instances as a
[15:06] <ev>   first pass. This will help us identify cases where the bug exists in the
[15:06] <ev>   library, not the binary its surfacing in. Discussions with Matthew on what
[15:06] <ev>   defines the "rate for matching machines" and whether this is better than a
[15:06] <ev>   simple percentage of the total instances.
[15:06] <ev> Blocked:
[15:06] <ev> - The webops team has been sprinting in the weeks since UDS as training for the
[15:06] <ev>   move to squads. This has meant that all non-critical tickets are on hold.
[15:06] <ev> - We're also stuck by the Cassandra cluster not having enough free disk space
[15:06] <ev>   for compaction. Tickets that create new data, such as back-population jobs,
[15:06] <ev>   are on hold until this is resolved:
[15:06] <ev>   https://rt.admin.canonical.com/Ticket/Display.html?id=61432
[15:06] <ev> - Due to the way I constructed our oops.canonical.com support, we're blocked on
[15:06] <ev>   further deployments of lp:errors until the RT lands:
[15:06] <ev>   https://rt.admin.canonical.com/Ticket/Display.html?id=61393
[15:06] <ev> Misc:
[15:06] <ev> - I attended a talk last night by Russel Winder on how Go and D stack up
[15:06] <ev>   against Python:
[15:06] <ev>   http://skillsmatter.com/podcast/nosql/are-go-and-d-threats-to-python/mh-7418
[15:06] <ev>   I don't think it's worth the language wars that would follow a trip report,
[15:06] <ev>   nor was there a lot of meat in there for the canonical-tech crowd, but I was
[15:06] <ev>   surprised to see that Go's error handling is enforced by policy, not code.
[15:06] <ev>   Unlike exception-based languages, you end up with the whole thing blowing up
[15:06] <ev>   some distance from where the error actually occurred. Julian does a better
[15:06] <ev>   job of explaining it:
[15:06] <ev>   http://bigjools.wordpress.com/2013/04/24/error-handling-in-go/
[15:06] <ev>   That said, it seems like an interesting enough language for server workloads,
[15:06] <ev>   assuming it gets a some mature batteries.
[15:06] <ev> - I'm 6 today:
[15:06] <ev>   https://pastebin.canonical.com/91771/
[15:06] <ev> (done)
[15:07] <stgraber> Blueprint-related work:
[15:07] <stgraber>  - Image based updates (BLUEPRINT: foundations-1305-image-based-updates)
[15:07] <stgraber>   - Waiting on review of the GPG implementation plan, need to get the keys generated and signed after that.
[15:07] <stgraber>   - Waiting for IS to setup the image based update server.
[15:07] <stgraber>   - Fixed a couple of bugs in the image diffing tool, adding a proper test suite now.
[15:07] <stgraber>   - Discussion with lifeless and barry.
[15:07] <stgraber> Other work:
[15:07] <stgraber>  - release/cdimage
[15:07] <stgraber>    - Wrote a new rebuild-requests tool to query any pending rebuild from the ISO tracker.
[15:07] <stgraber>    - Started integrating this with the actual build process so we can cron that thing.
[15:08] <stgraber>    - Smaller code change to the tracker to automatically mark a rebuild request as done when a new version is pushed (manually or through the API).
[15:08] <stgraber>  - LXC
[15:08] <stgraber>   - Pushed C implementation of get_ips in LXC API, dropped the python implementation and update the bindings
[15:08] <stgraber>   - Fixed LXC in saucy to install properly on a device with network bridges available in the kernel (touch devices).
[15:08] <stgraber>   - Answered some #ubuntu-phone question for the container flip, things appear to be going well
[15:08] <stgraber>   - Answered some questions from the QA/desktop team on using LXC for their desktop tests
[15:08] <stgraber>   - Drafted the implementation of container autostart upstream (to replace the Ubuntu-specific implementation)
[15:08] <stgraber>   - Updated the build/testing server to build on saucy and add armhf builds to the mix
[15:08] <stgraber>   - Various discussions and code reviews for major upstream changes needed for LXC 1.0
[15:08] <stgraber>  - Merged gnupg2, installation-report, openvpn, ifenslave-2.6 and nfs-utils (waiting on testing from slangasek for that last one)
[15:08] <stgraber>  - SRUed isc-dhcp to precise and lucid to allow both to be used as containers on saucy (required backporting the UDP checksum offloading patch)
[15:08] <stgraber>  
[15:08] <stgraber> TODO:
[15:08] <stgraber>  - Finish self-rebuilds feature implementation on nusakan
[15:08] <stgraber>  - Implement some of the remaining bits for the image based update server tools
[15:08] <slangasek> stgraber: ack, will test nfs-utils today
[15:08] <stgraber>  - Process some pending merges (ifupdown and resolvconf)
[15:08] <stgraber> (DONE)
[15:08] <stgraber> slangasek: thanks
[15:09] <slangasek> testing these things would be easier if someone could explain to me why my kernel is holding 1.5GB of memory for disk caches that it will never free
[15:09] <slangasek> well.  a *lot* of things would be easier if that were the case
[15:10] <slangasek> ev: "tickets that create new data" - does that block anything for phased updates? bdmurray?
[15:10] <bdmurray> slangasek: yes
[15:10] <slangasek> blast - ok.
[15:10] <bdmurray> although it may not be critical as it is the count of systems that have experienced a crash
[15:11] <slangasek> well, ticket #61432 already has "priority 20000", that's probably good enough :P
[15:11] <bdmurray> and actually its backfilling data so not important for packages entering -updates
[15:11] <ev> bdmurray: you might have some luck if you raise your ticket with the vanguard, as he was correcting my statement that we're blocked by the sprint :)
[15:12] <slangasek> oh, and stokachu is out this morning, and cjwatson is off today
[15:12] <slangasek> so, bdmurray:
[15:12] <bdmurray> submitted RT regarding backfill of bucketsystems
[15:12] <bdmurray> further work on phased-updater code
[15:12] <bdmurray> submitted merge proposal regarding sru-review
[15:12] <bdmurray> review of slangasek's change to sru-review
[15:12] <bdmurray> review of pending SRUs for errors bucket information
[15:12] <bdmurray> wrote blog post regarding SRU verification
[15:12] <bdmurray> release of recently verified SRUs (possibly due to blog posting)
[15:12] <bdmurray> fixed apport-symptoms bug regarding ubuntu-release-upgrader (LP: #1173913)
[15:12] <bdmurray> investigation into bug 1180034
[15:12] <bdmurray> trying to fix / test bug 1069019
[15:12] <bdmurray> review of DuplicateSignatures for saucy apport-package bug reports
[15:12] <bdmurray> merged apport bug fix for bug 1184121 regarding duplicate signature for package install failures
[15:12] <bdmurray> modified bugbot to deal with corrupt pyc files
[15:13] <bdmurray> fixed bugbot issue with apport crashdb on cranberry
[15:13] <bdmurray> ␗ done
[15:14] <slangasek> stgraber: image-based update server> I did update the ticket with deadline+priority, but based on what ev's said I guess this ticket is not going to move for a few weeks.  Is that holding anything up for you?
[15:14] <slangasek> stgraber: and thanks for getting the ifupdown merge; I meant to ask you if that was safe for me to do or if you wanted it held off
[15:14] <barry> bdmurray, doko think it's time to sru lp: #1058884 ?
[15:15] <doko> barry, I think it doesn't do any harm
[15:15] <doko> another question if it will help ...
[15:15] <slangasek> from the profile of that bug report, I suspect it will
[15:16] <slangasek> so, +1 from me for SRUing
[15:16] <bdmurray> barry: sounds good to me
[15:16] <slangasek> are there any python SRUs currently stuck in the queue?  Hmm, I would check this but pending-sru report is broken at the moment - doh
[15:16] <barry> yep, good, i'll get that started.  doko did i see that you got the same patch into debian?
[15:16] <bdmurray> I believe there are / were
[15:16] <doko> yes, there are still some 2.7 ones
[15:16] <doko> or 3.2?
[15:17] <stgraber> slangasek: ifupdown is always a pain to merge but I know where the problems tend to be so figure it'd be a lot faster for me to do it
[15:17] <stgraber> slangasek: so we need the server and the GPG keys online and ready by end of June if we want to respect our deadlines
[15:17] <stgraber> slangasek: it's not preventing developement of the other bits as we're using phablet.stgraber.org currently which has a valid SSL certificate and can be used with barry's code
[15:17] <slangasek> stgraber: ok.  I'll make sure to revisit this with IS in the sync call next week, then.
[15:18] <slangasek> doko: your turn
[15:18] <barry> stgraber: did you fill out the /gpg tree?
[15:18] <doko> - android cross toolchain (wanted to upload today, let's see if this works out)
[15:18] <doko> - preparing and testing gcc 4.8.1 release, looking at http://bugs.debian.org/710220, starte
[15:18] <doko> d an archive search for saucy
[15:18] <doko> - binutils trunk update in the ubuntu-toolchain-r/test ppa, waiting on feedback from the ke
[15:18] <doko> rnel team
[15:18] <doko> - python3.3 update, consolidating maintainer scripts
[15:18] <doko> (done)
[15:19] <stgraber> barry: was actually hoping to hear back from you on the changes I did on the wiki. If everything looks good to you, I'll go ahead and do the changes to phablet.stgraber.org
[15:19] <xnox> * boost1.53 is finished (less than 17 ftbfs packages left to be
[15:19] <xnox>   resolved in Debian, libreoffice update is being prepared by bjorn)
[15:19] <xnox> * merged updated fuse, fuse-utils package renamed to fuse (and
[15:19] <xnox>   transition reverse-deps to the new name)
[15:19] <xnox> * pushed some of ubuntu's d-i delta back to debian, and merged back to
[15:19] <xnox>   ubuntu.
[15:19] <xnox> * merged and uploaded ubuntu1 plugin for ubiquity, but disabled by
[15:19] <xnox>   default. Can be activated with --sso flag. Prepared instructions for
[15:19] <xnox>   design team review of the changes.
[15:19] <xnox> * Reviewed changes to ubuntu-geonames service from Liam Young, he is
[15:19] <xnox>   working on charming geonames to work on prod-stack (from IS sprint)
[15:19] <xnox> * Still have ~40 TIL merges left as per MoM, which I hope to resolve
[15:19] <xnox>   (ideally by syncing ;-))
[15:19] <xnox> * In-progress adding logind support to ubiquity, I correctly receive
[15:19] <xnox>   seat&session, yet ubiquity doesn't start-up under logind yet.
[15:19] <barry> stgraber: ack.  i'll get back to you on that later today
[15:19] <xnox> * Booked travel for DebConf13
[15:19] <xnox> done.
[15:19] <stgraber> barry: IIRc changes are mostly format of the keyrings, blacklist keyring, format change of channels.json and some changes on what's using detached signatures vs in-line signatures
[15:21] <slangasek> xnox: "doesn't start up under logind" - hmm, what does that mean?
[15:23] <xnox> slangasek: still investigating, ubiquity-dm terminates and doesn't give much useful output. will crank up dbus logging to see what is preventing ubiquity from opening a logind session.
[15:24] <slangasek> xnox: ok
[15:24] <slangasek> any other questions over the above?
[15:24] <xnox> slangasek: now that we have upstart-usersessions, I wonder if ubiquity should simply be a user-job which simply starts up before unity & blocks it.
[15:25] <slangasek> xnox: mmm, no idea - maybe stgraber has some thoughts on that
[15:25] <stgraber> xnox: we don't have upstart usersesssion for !ubuntu
[15:26] <xnox> (if that is possible, it's more of a wondering). Also since there is no pam session initiated, there is also no XDG_RUNTIME and etc. variables.
[15:26] <xnox> (XDG_RUNTIME_DIR that is)
[15:26] <stgraber> if we had, we indeed could ship a "start on starting xsession-init and dbus" job which would start ubiquity
[15:27] <slangasek> you could theoretically split the binary package for user-session activation vs. system activation
[15:27] <slangasek> though that could make for some unpleasant bit rot on the system activation case
[15:28] <stgraber> indeed. I'm not sure what's the benefit though if we end up having to maintain the two (sure, the flavours would be responsible for ubiquity-dm, but in the end we'll still be the ones reviewing those and fixing quite a few of the bugs I expect)
[15:29] <slangasek> right, except perhaps in encouraging the flavors to move to upstart user sessions sooner?
[15:29] <slangasek> but anyway - probably a conversation for another time and place
[15:29] <slangasek> [TOPIC] Bugs
[15:29] <slangasek> bdmurray: any bugs you've not gotten answers on already?
[15:30] <bdmurray> oh, bug 1094218 received an interesting comment
[15:30] <stgraber> I can probably quickly look into what would be needed to get kde, lxde and xfce to use user sessions. I don't think it's much more than a single upstart job that starts the right *-session binary
[15:31] <barry> bdmurray: i still have a browser tab open on that one.  i haven't looked closely, but a cursory look was a bit mysterious
[15:32] <bdmurray> barry: a look at the last comment?
[15:32] <slangasek> it's a bit speculative
[15:32] <slangasek> "there may be a SIGCHLD handling bug in python" - sure, there may
[15:33] <slangasek> but the pipe code has been there a while, how has nobody hit this before?
[15:33] <slangasek> barry, doko: anyway, it might be worth one of you having a look at os.popen() vs. http://bugs.python.org/issue9127
[15:33] <barry> yeah, if sys.stderr is closed or otherwise unavailable, that would probably cause the crash.
[15:33] <slangasek> ah
[15:34] <slangasek> sys.stderr being closed seems quite plausible here
[15:35] <slangasek> and I guess reproducing that requires actually closing stderr, not just redirecting to /dev/null :)
[15:35] <slangasek> (not sure of a good way to test that from shell)
[15:35] <slangasek> anyway
[15:35] <slangasek> barry: will you follow up?
[15:37] <barry> slangasek: yeppers
[15:37] <slangasek> great, thanks
[15:37] <slangasek> bdmurray: anything else?
[15:38] <slangasek> ... assuming not :)
[15:38] <bdmurray> slangasek: nope
[15:38] <slangasek> [TOPIC] AOB
[15:39] <slangasek> bdmurray: ok, thanks :)
[15:39] <slangasek> anything else new and exciting?
[15:40] <stgraber> did I ever mention how much I hate ubuntu-release-upgrader? It's now my 5th try at building a source package. I "think" I've got all the needed packages installed on my system now...
[15:40] <slangasek> stgraber: are you using bzr bd?
[15:40] <stgraber> yep
[15:40] <barry> stgraber: i feel your pain
[15:40] <slangasek> hmm, this package is missing the bzr-builddeb integration hook!
[15:41] <slangasek> did someone forget to add that when splitting from update-manager?
[15:41] <stgraber> it just annoys me that this package has more dependencies to build a source package than it has to actually build the binaries :)
[15:41] <slangasek> yeah
[15:41] <stgraber> slangasek: it has the hook, pre-build.sh is being called by bzr bd
[15:41] <slangasek> stgraber: the pre-build.sh should prompt you for all the build-deps in one go, AFAICS
[15:41] <slangasek> and if it's not doing that, update the dpkg-checkbuilddeps line :)
[15:41] <bdmurray> I think infinity had mentioned one was missing at the sprint
[15:42] <stgraber> slangasek: it does for what's needed by the testsuite, then the source package fails to build 5min later because you also need all the build-deps apparently
[15:42] <bdmurray> or he fixed one
[15:42] <slangasek> looks like he did, yes
[15:43] <slangasek> stgraber: oh; I was assuming you'd done 'sudo mk-build-deps -i -r' or equivalent before calling bzr bd, too :)
[15:43] <slangasek> anywayz
[15:43] <slangasek> stgraber: thanks for fixing invoke-rc.d :)
[15:43] <stgraber> slangasek: most if not all packages I maintain don't depend on half the world just to build a source package ;)
[15:44] <stgraber> anyway, I apparently just got a source package, let's see if I can build that thing and test it somehow
[15:44] <slangasek> heh
[15:44] <slangasek> #endmeeting
[15:44] <meetingology> Meeting ended Wed May 29 15:44:27 2013 UTC.
[15:44] <meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-05-29-15.01.moin.txt
[15:44] <meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-05-29-15.01.html
[15:44] <slangasek> thanks, all!
[15:44] <barry> thanks!
[15:44] <jodh> thanks
[15:44] <stgraber> thanks!