[01:36] OvenWerks: No, icons go with icons. If there's a problemw with how the menu works, I'd rather fix it upstream [01:37] Sorry to be repetetive on that, and it's perhaps not the time to do that actively [01:37] But, that should be the goal [01:40] Ah, PA just got into -proposed [01:40] So, time to test it, and give it the green flag [01:42] Luke is a ubuntustudio-contributor now [02:41] zequence: so ardour should have their icon included in gnome-icons? [02:42] An apps icons go in the apps package. The studio menu is like an app and should include it's own icons, needed to make it work. [02:42] An icon theme is something that can be switched in an out [02:43] an apps icons are there by default. [02:43] Any icons that belong in /usr/share/icons/hicolor belong in the package of the app that uses them [02:44] Our workflow menu merge should continue to work even if the user chooses another icon theme [02:46] This becomes important when adding studio to another flavour. [02:51] We aren't shipping an app [02:51] My sense is that gnome-icons should already have the icons we need, upstream. But our menu should not depend on a theme. [02:52] our menu is the same kind of thing. [02:52] We're customizing the menu, which IMO, we should do as little as possible [02:52] If I am running KDE and install some studio metas and want the studio menu, I should not have to load US-icon_theme to make it work [02:53] The settings depend on the icons [02:54] Nor should the user need to select the US theme [02:54] No, they shouldn't [02:54] It's a flaw [02:54] Right [02:54] IMO [02:54] The way to fix the flaw is to include the needed icons with the menu. [02:54] Or, to redesign the menu, so it works with upstream [02:55] Or, develop a standalone package that is called ubuntustudio-menu [02:55] That is the same as using the stock menu [02:55] That is what I am doing [02:55] There is already a package with that name [02:55] I know [02:56] I have already started fixing it. [02:56] Have you thought about how you could push changes upstream yet? [02:57] And which changes would be relevant upstream [02:57] First would be to get the extra categories [02:57] I suppose it might prove best to make all DEs work first, with as much generic work as possible [02:58] I think the sub menus we have could make sense in any distro dedicated to these workflows or even only one of them. [02:58] I'd really appreciate if you could find solutions that work on all DEs [02:58] Not all DEs use menus [02:58] That is exactly my plan [02:58] I understand that. [02:59] What unites all DEs are the categories [02:59] You know better than me, what unites the menu based DEs [02:59] But those that do have a standard and a menu that merges fixes those at least. [03:00] We could (it would be a lot of work) make a whole new set of desktop files too. [03:01] You mean for all the different applications? [03:01] All the apps in our workflows... No I am not volumteering :) [03:01] It will need to be done [03:01] I can work on that, from Debian [03:02] upstream would be better [03:02] It would allow oru menus to be less custom too [03:03] s/oru/our [03:03] Then it's the best path [03:03] The parts of our menu that require heavy customization are done. [03:04] The XFCE menu, or the menus for all DEs? [03:04] For all xdg compliant menus [03:04] I have it working on KDE here [03:05] I have a lubuntu copy I will try it on too [03:05] Because it is a small menu on it's own, it could also be used on it's own on a menuless desktop as well [03:06] using one of the many small pannels for example [03:06] I don't know if that is a good idea or not though [03:08] I can have a quick test with lxde and also cinnamon to see how it works [03:09] That is why I want to have a package [03:09] installing a list of files manually is no fun. [03:10] It would be better in deed to have the menu on its own [03:11] My plan is to be able to leave the stock menu in any DE alone and just add our workflows [03:11] In the same way wine adds their little menu. [03:13] It would mean loosing anything I have done on settings, and the set of apps at the top of our xfce menu... but it means less up keep. [03:14] I think one of the things xfce has been working has been cleaning settings up anyway. [03:14] PA checks out. I gave it the green flag. Hopefully it'll be in -updates within the week [03:14] Or we can use xubuntu's menu [03:14] is that for 12.04 [03:14] ? [03:14] 12.04 and 12.10 [03:14] good [03:15] zequence: when It is easy to install our metas with the other flavours, I would like to do some performance testing and comparing. [03:16] Let's make sure the categories are really well though out in a couple of months, and I can do the work on changing the desktop files upstream [03:16] So far, on this machine, KDE (kubuntu) does better than the studio ISO [03:17] That might be interesting for the people with older machines, so perhaps start a wiki page about that. Would be best to get more machines involved in testing too before release, on that particular subject [03:18] If we find that one DE is best for older machines, it could be recommended [03:18] Or, a set of DEs [03:18] Ya, one would expect lxde to be best for that, but I will see. [03:19] is zeinty common to all the flavours? [03:20] What's that? [03:20] I am thinking of using it to make a studio meta installer. [03:20] it is a dialog tool for scripting. [03:20] like xmessage, but with more options. [03:21] I'd like to see what it is before you do any actual work on that [03:21] It doesn't need extra libs like python does. [03:21] The choice of tools should be something that works best with the Debian installation [03:21] Could be just a simple bash script [03:21] I am doing it for my use. If you like it I have no problem with it being used else where [03:23] I am realizing testing would be so much easier If I have a tool. [03:24] I have found out that kubuntu has their whole own section of ubiquity and the distro upgrader with non-gtk libs. [03:24] I don't want to follow that. [03:25] OvenWerks: Here https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/DesktopEnvironmentTesting [03:25] I don't want to load extra gtk libs on a kde system either... though I guess some of our apps will anyway. [03:26] OK, That is the place to add results and things to test. [03:27] Time for breakfest, and then school. [03:27] Enjoy [14:01] zequence: on Kubuntu, pulse seems to do an auto fallover to jack sink if the defaukt is busy... or maybe just because jacksink is there. It pops a notice up with an option to decline that action. Nice. [14:53] Someone doing a Strokes cover using Ubuntu Studio https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JxieG2YXczk [14:55] He's done a few covers like that [14:55] i was thinking some kind of cover page ;) [14:55] nice video work too [14:56] I suppose Ubuntu Studio would work for that too [15:00] This one was cool. Too bad about the xruns. Guess he didn't have any decent kernel (if he wasn't using a PPA) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfiU6fCo48Q [15:00] I have to try using a vocoder some time [15:01] A bit nostalgic now to see the old Gnome2 desktop with the old theme [15:02] i know [15:03] There's an autogenerated channel for Ubuntu Studio here https://www.youtube.com/channel/HCkGK6Zv5-b0I/feed?filter=2 [15:04] I'm setting up a channel for us, as soon as I get ownership of the G+ page, which I want to link it to [15:04] Would be good to do a couple of videos ourselves [15:08] yup.. tutorials [16:21] OvenWerks: I would think pulseaudio works the same way on all DEs [16:21] Just that KDE has different gui controls for it [19:30] i have to say, i havent upgraded my studio machine since i installed it [19:30] i figured, what the hey.. i bet its OK now to just upgrade [19:31] i will go back to *never* upgrading my studio production machine again [19:31] i mean, dont get me wrong, im sure its an nvidia thing.. but still.. its a drag [19:33] holstein: What happened? [19:34] a studio machine that works, I never upgrade either [19:34] well, i rebooted into only one screen of my dual head.. with just half a panel [19:34] i went and setup nvidia settings again, and i have the dual head again.. but one monitor is half the resolution it was before [19:35] so, i most recently tried using the line from the old xorg with the resolutions in the newer one.. and now, i just have the boot logo stuck on both screens [19:35] i tried booting an older kernel... i suppose i can downgrade the nvidia driver [19:36] i like the "appliance" approach [19:36] i thought the newer kernel might be "better" or something [19:36] at least i did it *after* getting some work done [19:37] those kernels have pretty big changelogs, and you rarely see that much fixes done to any piece of software in such a short time [19:38] thats why i thought booting the older kernel would "fix" it [19:38] But, who benefits? Hard to say. Should not cause nvidia regressions though [19:38] tbh, ive *always* had issues like this with dual head on the studio machin [19:38] machine [19:38] intel.. amd.. whatever [19:39] i just got in the habit of not upgrading [19:39] and, i just remembered why ;) [20:07] holstein: hard drives are cheap. I buy a new one for the new install. I have three versions of ubuntustudio on different drives. [20:13] OvenWerks: oh, i have 3 installs on here [20:13] the 10.04 ubuntustudio, a testing partition, and my 12.04 production area.. which is the one that i "broke" [20:14] i added a ppa to try newer versions of nvidia [20:14] i'll just get a knoppix live CD and use it to create the resolution [20:14] i just shouldnt have to [20:16] Ya, I have been surprised that kubuntu seems to run better than our own xfce [20:16] i hope this is not DE releaste.. i didnt even think about that [20:16] Video in particular [20:16] related* [20:16] yeah, it would be nice to get falk in here and do the KDE stuff [20:16] I am not so sure. [20:17] KDE runs with our metas pretty good as is. [20:18] I want to try doing the same with xubuntu, to see if it is the same if that runs better then some of our system settings are off [20:26] lol [20:26] that would be interesting [20:26] to say the least [20:27] Sometimes settings that work with one kernel (I think we tried them at 3.1 or 3.5) don't work so well with another [20:32] i know, but i booted my older kernel and tested [20:32] its odd [20:33] its like the nvidia driver negated the resolution i need [20:33] and, it *was* running on there [20:46] holstein: in case you missed it, I am working on a menu that should work with any DE (that is xdg compliant). With the idea that a user could just install some metas on top of any Ubuntu flavour and go. [20:46] OvenWerks: i think thats a great idea [20:46] OvenWerks: let me know if i can test it somewhere.. mabye openbox/lxde [20:47] I am pretty sure I could do that with KDE, xfce, lxde etc. Gnome session should work but the menu may not show same with unity. [20:48] (I have it working with KDE now, but it was a manual install) [20:50] Luke is working on Cinnamon as well [22:40] For those who's on board, I salute you : )