[06:10] <knightwise> morning
[06:55] <knightwise> hey TheOpenSourcerer !
[06:55] <TheOpenSourcerer> Meauning.
[07:09] <MooDoo> morning
[07:11] <knightwise> hey MooDoo
[07:57] <shrik> Plusnet has kicked Sky butt so far..
[08:15] <JamesTait> Good morning all, happy Loomis Day! :-D
[08:22] <dwatkins> I'm very happy with IDNet, who I switched to after Sky bought BeThere, my previous ISP.
[08:27] <popey> odd. http://store.steampowered.com/browse/linux/  showed 191 games 2 days ago, now it shows 212 games!
[08:30] <BigRedS> I really need to get a graphics card modern enough to have support in a kernel from this decade...
[08:30] <bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
[08:32] <MooDoo> morning
[08:34] <daftykins> morning all o/
[08:35] <dwatkins> allo allo
[08:35] <bigcalm> Goodness, there is life
[08:35] <daftykins> all over the place too!
[08:35] <daftykins> BigRedS: how old a card are you running? :)
[08:39] <BigRedS> Actually, it's not *that* old
[08:39] <BigRedS> I've no idea what it is any more, but it was reasonably good in ~2010
[08:39] <daftykins> lspci? :)
[08:39] <BigRedS> it's at home
[08:39] <daftykins> aww
[08:39] <BigRedS> I never use it except for Wintendo :)
[08:40] <daftykins> i'm waiting on my friends new desktop build that i get to put together today
[08:40] <daftykins> it should arrive today
[08:40] <daftykins> pretty top-end spec, it is
[08:41] <redtape|renegade> morning daftykins . hows the isle ?
[08:41] <daftykins> redtape|renegade: hallo o/
[08:42] <daftykins> a little wet lately but otherwise not bad thanks :) how's yours?
[08:42] <redtape|renegade> long time , no 'see you jimmy' .. :)
[08:42] <daftykins> ^_^
[08:43] <daftykins> yeah i lurk around a lot
[08:43] <daftykins> aww they just called me to say they'll be delivered lunchtime
[08:44] <redtape|renegade> i get a new hdd today :)
[08:44] <daftykins> :O
[08:45] <redtape|renegade> only cost £11 .. off ebay :)
[08:45] <daftykins> O_O what for?
[08:46] <popey> \o/ http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00BQ5KHJW/ arrived yesterday..
[08:46] <popey> should mean my phone doesn't die on the boat trip next week
[08:46] <mungbean> what's the best method for removing reallly sticky glue off shiny aluminium?
[08:46] <mungbean> gonna try the hairbryer method on the sticker first
[08:46] <popey> mungbean: goo gone
[08:47] <popey> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Goo-Gone-Cleaning-Liquid-29/dp/B003BQRQ02
[08:47] <redtape|renegade> daftykins: 160GB HDD ... Ooooooh, I hope it was used in and credit card call center .. and they forgot to wipe it or summit :D
[08:47] <dwatkins> mungbean: warm water, failing that, something white spirit based as popey says
[08:48] <dwatkins> I have a bottle imaginitively entitled "sticker remover" which I got from "Ali's Cave", a shop in Edinburgh that has pretty much everything
[08:48] <popey> heh
[08:49] <BigRedS> mungbean: WD-40 and a scouring pad
[08:49] <popey> if you like scratched aluminimum?
[08:49] <popey> -typo
[08:50] <mungbean> looking for the free approach
[08:51] <mungbean> might try hairdryer first, wd40 second,
[08:51] <popey> the free approach is come to my house and use some of my goo gone
[08:51] <BigRedS> Ah, I guess it's probably not so good on polished ali. It's what I use routinely to get duct/duck tape off bits of bikes
[08:51] <mungbean> Make DIY Goo Gone or Goof Off at home using just two ingredients: coconut oil and baking soda.
[08:52] <daftykins> mungbean: try some nail polish remover
[08:53] <mungbean> daftykins: ah yes, that was the other idea
[08:53] <redtape|renegade> What about apple sauce and BBQ firestater ?
[08:53] <mungbean> its a largeish area and a very sticky sticker
[08:53] <daftykins> given proximity to femmes that should be free :D
[08:53] <daftykins> redtape|renegade: wow you really buy some ghetto hardware - 160GB wouldn't hold my music collection these days
[08:53] <popey> i can never find the nail polish remover in our house
[08:53] <popey> not that I personally need it that often
[08:53] <popey> *ahem*
[08:54]  * daftykins has a big bottle of isopropyl alcohol for processor/heatsink cleaning
[08:54] <daftykins> popey: after every night out i expect? ;)
[08:55] <redtape|renegade> daftykins: It's just for a academic programming computer .. not downloading much on that one .. perhaps some Pdf's, that's it ..
[08:56] <BigRedS> I discovered that our bastion server only has a 20G HDD the other day
[08:56]  * redtape|renegade hits everyone .. with a woman's weekly ::: ASK the girls !!
[08:58] <mungbean> 4) will try olive oil + baking soda
[08:59] <redtape|renegade> 5) cinnamon and the spit of a cornishman :)
[09:00]  * redtape|renegade believes his sillyness needs to be curtailed :(
[09:12] <redtape|renegade> OT | Off the to the Manx Laundry Unit today .. Dadsie asked for afew 16½ inch white shirts. Silly me bought ten of them .. off ebay.co.uk And they all arrived yesterday (a week later) | PS .. No yokes about 'laundry money' etc here Plz. **cough.
[09:12] <BigRedS> I have no idea what you're talking about
[09:13] <redtape|renegade> About the laundrette ?
[09:15] <daftykins> did he want them earlier than the whole week i take it?
[09:16] <redtape|renegade> No . I'm just surprised that the bloke at the post office bought them all at once .. it's his birthday next week anyhow.
[09:16] <shrik> shirts off ebay?
[09:16] <redtape|renegade> yepsie.
[09:17] <redtape|renegade> mostly calvin klein
[09:17] <daftykins> i'm beginning to think your feedback score has hundreds of results on ebay redtape|renegade ;)
[09:17] <daftykins> as in you're a frequent customer
[09:17] <redtape|renegade> 400..
[09:17] <redtape|renegade> (keep in mind only 1 in 5 bothers leaving feedback :) )
[09:18] <shrik> wonder why i haven't ever thought of looking at apparel on ebay -- I guess in my mind it's still second-hand stuff
[09:19] <popey> yeah, I've never considered buying clothes off ebay
[09:19] <redtape|renegade> .. just needs a clean .. I like it because it's 'tried and tested' and you can   always return the clobber..
[09:20] <redtape|renegade> .. and you can read the reviews ...
[09:20] <daftykins> shrik: that's the thought that comes to me yeah
[09:21] <daftykins> the trouble with user review based sites, is you get peoples opinions
[09:21] <BigRedS> yeah, everything's subjective rather than objective
[09:21] <BigRedS> though I've more than once bought a product because the slew of negativer reviews were people complaining the product was exactly what I was looking for
[09:21] <daftykins> e.g. when it comes to technology, if you went by reviews on Amazon you'd probably never get anything, because every Tom, Dick and Harry of course replies with their luck. some just aren't capable of properly making use of some gear they buy
[09:22] <daftykins> BigRedS: hahaha
[09:23] <popey> yeah, i bought my printer on amazon where all the reviews were negative
[09:23] <popey> but all the reviews were focussed on the windows printer driver, not the printer itself
[09:23] <daftykins> *nod*
[09:23] <daftykins> such people install windows drivers from the CD anyway :(
[09:23] <popey> i plugged the printer in to my ubuntu laptop and it was ready to print before I'd sat down and put the ink in it
[09:23] <daftykins> with the autorun installers no less!
[09:24] <daftykins> good ol' cups
[09:25] <BigRedS> Haha, I remember turning up somewhere with an emergency replacement lexmark printer, spending about an hour trying to find/build the drivers before realising that it'd been working since about when I'd plugged it in
[09:25]  * redtape|renegade always beieved in the 'eopinions' website way of doing it .. get paid for writing reviews by amazon incentive programs .. If Ubuntu could only harness that .. we'd all let Ubuntu 'PAY-US' a cheque for reviewing products etc .. wonderfull idea .. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epinions .. Can't wait till my distro . jumps on it.
[09:25] <BigRedS> I'd heard so much bad about lexmark that I'd not even thought to see if it'd Just Worked
[09:27] <redtape|renegade> It works because you search using google or a product .. usually with 'review' in the title , then the e-opinions webpage comes up .. you see the amazon link... buy it (hopefully) .. then the reviewer get a small cheque .. I think.
[09:28] <redtape|renegade> oh .. and each reviewer has a stats page with comments to see if they are genuine ..
[09:29] <redtape|renegade> genius idea.
[09:29] <brobostigon> good morning everyone.
[09:30] <redtape|renegade> mornin'
[09:30] <brobostigon> morning redtape|renegade
[09:31] <redtape|renegade>  guess my question is :: WHY CANT Ubuntu pay us to-do reviews ?
[09:31] <brobostigon> more like canonical, ubuntu cant pay you anything.
[09:32] <redtape|renegade> troo.. but my vquestion ?
[09:32] <daftykins> i'd imagine they're burning enough money already
[09:33] <redtape|renegade> yeah, but it will become profitable after 200 milion people buy the phone !
[09:33] <brobostigon> as sabdfl has said before, canonical burns more money than it makes.
[09:34] <BigRedS> why would canonical buy reviews from people?
[09:34] <BigRedS> I'd not trust those any more than freely given ones, perhaps less. There'd always be the assumption that the reviewer has decided to be nice in teh hope of getting more money for more reviews
[09:34] <BigRedS> and, besides, most people can't write a good review of an OS
[09:35] <redtape|renegade> BigRedS: dID YOU LOOK AT THE WEBSITE i GAVE ?  soz for caps.
[09:35] <BigRedS> epinions? I'm familiar with teh idea, I just distrust the reviews it produces
[09:36] <redtape|renegade> Well, If you dont trust people in the community .. what hope is there ?
[09:36] <daftykins> essentially, reviews come from people, people can't be trusted
[09:36] <redtape|renegade> They are just 'guides'..
[09:36] <daftykins> redtape|renegade: you get negative reviews because the colour of something isn't the shade someone thought it was from the pictures - though ;)
[09:36] <redtape|renegade> Maybe that's why canmonical has no money ?
[09:37] <BigRedS> I distrust reviews that are being written because people are paying for them slightly more than I distrust reviews that are written because the writer has a strongly held opinion
[09:37] <BigRedS> At least in the latter the author is writing simply because they feel that whatever it is they have to say needs to be said
[09:37] <BigRedS> But I am a massive cynical hippy
[09:37] <redtape|renegade> understandable then.
[09:38] <daftykins> ugh my crunchy nut cornflakes have gone soft :(
[09:38]  * daftykins reviews them poorly, with the caveat the box is 2 months old
[09:38] <daftykins> ^_^
[09:38] <redtape|renegade> daftykins: Oooh .. that's terrible .. have you told the police ?
[09:38] <BigRedS> daftykins: amateur
[09:38] <daftykins> redtape|renegade: they're next on my list
[09:39] <daftykins> BigRedS: how does that work :( am i an amateur cereal eater?
[09:39]  * redtape|renegade write a 'review of the police' on his to-do list ..
[09:39] <BigRedS> daftykins: yeah, I'm afraid that soggy cereal is a pretty strong hallmark of that
[09:39] <BigRedS> that and an absence of sponsor logos on your spon
[09:39] <redtape|renegade> better that an serial amateur eater :D :D
[09:40] <daftykins> BigRedS: :(
[09:40] <popey> Canonical has no money?
[09:41]  * popey checks his pay-slip
[09:41] <BigRedS> Yeah, canonical definitely seems to have money
[09:43] <ali1234> redtape|renegade: the real answer is because canonical has no products that they sell for money
[09:43] <ali1234> except mugs, t-shirts, and pens
[09:43] <popey> that's not true
[09:44] <bigcalm> http://shop.canonical.com/
[09:44] <ali1234> oh and landscape
[09:44] <ali1234> and ubuntu one subscriptions
[09:44] <redtape|renegade> popey I wonder why they dont update the USB Key to 13.04 etc .. to give ppl the optin of getting updates if offline ? http://shop.canonical.com/product_info.php?products_id=1043
[09:44] <bigcalm> And support services
[09:44] <ali1234> none of these things are actually products
[09:44] <AlanBell> and 7 digital music
[09:45] <redtape|renegade> hi AlanBell !
[09:45] <ali1234> it is difficult to review a subscription service because it can turn to crap the day after you reviewed it
[09:45] <ali1234> thus it is difficult to trust reviews
[09:46] <redtape|renegade> ali1234: I dont think you trust anyone, anyway !
[09:46]  * redtape|renegade kinda agrees with you, too.
[09:47] <ali1234> so basically if you want to write a review of an ubuntu product basically you are stuck with the pens and hats
[09:47] <Myrtti> redtape|renegade: because they have a big box of them from 12.10 and haven't sold them all?
[09:48] <redtape|renegade> ali1234: The idea was to encompass any Ubuntu/ amazon search results .. off the shoppping scope. but i think that time has passed.
[09:48] <Laney> nah, it was a decision to stop doing them and focus on LTS for things like that
[09:50] <ali1234> so i've got a question
[09:50] <ali1234> how do i buy support for one computer without landscape?
[09:50] <ali1234> on the shop it just tells me to go to askubuntu
[09:51] <ali1234> which is useless
[09:51] <czajkowski> Laney: indeed
[09:51] <czajkowski> the fact they are sold out says it all
[09:53] <czajkowski> aquarius: ping a ling long
[09:53] <aquarius> czajkowski, pong
[09:53] <czajkowski> aquarius: disregard :)
[09:54] <czajkowski> you replied
[09:54] <aquarius> k
[09:54] <daftykins> i always love the optimism of people
[09:55] <daftykins> this guy on the main channel
[09:55] <daftykins> "i want to run this program that the manufacturer says supports redhat only"
[09:55] <daftykins> thus proceeds to try and run it under ubuntu
[09:55] <daftykins> good times
[09:56] <ali1234> what is wrong with that?
[09:56] <daftykins> did i say there was?
[09:58] <TheOpenSourcerer> Discourse is rather coolio isn't it?
[09:59] <NET||abuse> so cool, new virgin media setup at home, proper speed compared to my sky dsl
[09:59] <popey> TheOpenSourcerer: yeah ☻
[09:59] <daftykins> NET||abuse: cable? hope you enjoy their flaky network downtime :D
[10:00] <popey> better than forums
[10:00] <NET||abuse> 61.9Mb/s down, would love better up but 2.9Mb/s up isn't bad,, 350KB/s aparently
[10:00] <daftykins> i'm sensing a rather righteous attitude from some regulars this morning ¬_¬
[10:00] <NET||abuse> daftykins: well, day 3 and no issues, i have a heartbeat running frmo my home machine, piping snmp data to my vps to see if there's issues.
[10:01] <davmor2> Morning all
[10:01] <NET||abuse> should be fun. but i got tivo and a second room box with the deal for free.. and i've no tv :(
[10:01] <NET||abuse> wondering about tv anywhere on linux.. flash 11.4 needed aparently.
[10:02] <NET||abuse> ubuntu 12.10 uses flash 11.2 even though latest is 11.7, and chrome's pepper pot flash is 11.7 but virgin say the custom flash has issues and probably doesn't work with the drm stuff
[10:03] <daftykins> NET||abuse: ja, i had VM cable back in Uni time down in Portsmouth. some nights i'd be forced to go to bed at a certain time 'cause the cable 'modem' would just be desync'd for a few hours after midnight - it was rare, couple of times a quarter maybe
[10:04] <NET||abuse> well, i'm gonna try and log it with my vps's monitoring when it does happen, even when i'm not there, pushlish SLA vs actual % uptime for laughs
[10:04] <davmor2> daftykins: the only time VM is down for me is when there are hardware issues there end.
[10:04] <NET||abuse> but it's the fiber network i'm on, wondering if it'll be much better
[10:04] <daftykins> davmor2: yeah - that's kinda what i'm getting at :)
[10:05] <diplo> Morning all
[10:05] <shrik> wait, people don't like soggy cereal..?
[10:05] <NET||abuse> but anyhow,, anyone know a good deal on a tv? I'm looking at the smasun 32" eu32f5000 going for 299 in curry's
[10:06] <daftykins> i eat cereal dry
[10:06] <daftykins> mines just a bit old so it's gone soft :(
[10:06] <daftykins> they're just 'nut cornflakes' now - not crunchy :(
[10:06] <davmor2> once or twice a year seems to be the norm for a few days of flakeyness while it is fixed.  IE fault occurs temp fix in place order hardware day or two after it goes dead again for a couple of hours or so while they replace the hardware smooth running again
[10:06] <shrik> daftykins: Yeah, that's the only situation I'd like the cereal to be crunchy, but with milk it's gotta be soggy
[10:07] <daftykins> i never eat cereal with milk
[10:07] <daftykins> to me it's weird :D
[10:07] <shrik> daftykins: doesn't it make you thirsty?
[10:07] <daftykins> nah
[10:08] <davmor2> NET||abuse: Asda do a polaroid 40 inch for about £50 less that we haven't had a fault with
[10:09] <NET||abuse> davmor2: having a gander..
[10:09] <davmor2> NET||abuse: http://direct.asda.com/TVs/4041,default,sc.html
[10:09] <shrik> is anyone else having trouble with Firefox being unusually crashy on 13.04?
[10:09]  * BigRedS isn't
[10:09] <shrik> I'm on the Aurora channel
[10:09] <shrik> (if that matters..)
[10:09] <davmor2> NET||abuse: Looks like it has gone back up so it is a similar price but they have a tosh 32in with dvd at 260
[10:10]  * popey stopped using firefox about 6 months ago
[10:10] <NET||abuse> Yeh, reviews on that tosh says blurry image motion
[10:10] <BigRedS> Is aurora the firefox RC?
[10:11] <davmor2> shrik: you should try it in 13.10 nearly every page load crashes it
[10:11] <BigRedS> I used to run that, but then I became a luddite
[10:11]  * popey hugs chromium
[10:11] <ali1234> yeah i've had that problem too
[10:11] <popey> looking forward to that being the default
[10:11] <ali1234> not with 13.04
[10:11] <shrik> BigRedS: it's one channel above the nightlies - a little more stable, and a little less bleeding edge
[10:11] <BigRedS> I tried Chromium, couldn't work out how to make its version of NoScript work
[10:11] <ali1234> it happened when firefox upgraded in 12.10 as well
[10:12] <ali1234> it crashes a few times a day
[10:12] <BigRedS> And, also, I quite like a web browser produced by someone with no interests in a closed web. There's that hippy in me again...
[10:12] <ali1234> chromium is rubbish. it does not have useful ad block or script blocking
[10:12] <popey> wfm
[10:12] <ali1234> it has plugins for it but they do not work
[10:12] <shrik> davmor2: I had a bit of rough time moving up to 13.04, so I'll stick to it a while before shaking things up again..
[10:12] <ali1234> they are not kept up to date
[10:12] <ali1234> so they miss most things
[10:12] <popey> i havent seen an advert for months
[10:13] <BigRedS> I don't use an adblocker. I do use flashblock, though
[10:13] <ali1234> it also does not support rss feds
[10:13] <popey> ghostery is quite neat too
[10:13] <shrik> popey: does it work for blocking ads in Youtube videos..? I only keep Chrome around for testing..
[10:13] <BigRedS> is there a ghostery in chromium?
[10:13] <popey> yes
[10:13] <popey> and yes shrik
[10:14] <BigRedS> ahh, I was wondering which of the two you were saying it was quite neat in :)
[10:14] <BigRedS> ah, I guess that's what I should've looked at instead of noscript
[10:14] <popey> well i dont use firefox so all my comments relate to chromium
[10:14] <shrik> (..and vice versa)
[10:14] <BigRedS> Oh yeah, that should've been obvious :)
[10:15] <NET||abuse> hmm, going to study reviews of the asda telly's vs what's on curry's,,, anywhere else worth looking for good prices on not really out of date tv's?
[10:15] <popey> richer sounds?
[10:16] <NET||abuse> ohh, will check there :) cheers
[10:16] <mungbean> amazon
[10:16] <NET||abuse> mungbean: for telly's the same tv in curry's for 299 was 499 on amazon
[10:16] <mungbean> camelcamelcamel
[10:17] <NET||abuse> ahh, depends on the search you do.. found it now on amazon for 294 :)
[10:17] <daftykins> i picked up a Samsung 55" LED 6800 series for £900 delivered off Amazon a bit ago
[10:17] <daftykins> it's amazing
[10:17] <BigRedS> mungbean: Mushroom! Mushroom!
[10:17] <mungbean> my telly still has a crt
[10:17] <NET||abuse> 55",, jeebus,, you running a cinema? :P that's a big ass telly.
[10:18] <NET||abuse> mungbean: i had a telly 3 years ago, it was a crt.. haven't had another tv since
[10:18] <daftykins> especially given Audio Return Channel (ARC) support with my Onkyo AV receiver - so it sends the sound over the single HDMI feed to the amp to play there :D
[10:18] <daftykins> NET||abuse: pretty much home cinema yeah ^_^ hehe, nah i moved into my new place with a 2006 model 40" Sony, it was tiiiiiny in this place so i upgraded
[10:18] <NET||abuse> yeh, i'll investigate sounds setups further down the road, but definately will do something.
[10:18] <mungbean> having a crt works out cheaper , cos i don't end up buying gadgets with hdmi or having upscaling issues
[10:18] <NET||abuse> daftykins: mmm, nice to be able to spalsh out like that :0
[10:19] <daftykins> mungbean: but you have to keep going to the opticians to have them tell you - "no, it really is that blurry sir"
[10:19] <davmor2> NET||abuse: Tesco do some good deals too
[10:19] <daftykins> NET||abuse: i did struggle to commit to the purchase, but once i gave in and it got here i was very pleased i did :)
[10:20] <mgdm> It's amazing the difference between a decent analogue TV signal displayed on a nice CRT and the garbage you get over Freeview
[10:20] <daftykins> gave the old one to my parents, it only had one HDMI it was so old school
[10:20] <mungbean> i don't find my crt blurry
[10:20] <NET||abuse> daftykins: luls
[10:20] <popey> i sometimes wish i still had my Sony FD-1 CRT
[10:20] <mgdm> Freeview HD gets you back to roughly where analogue left off
[10:20] <daftykins> well, we only know the quality we're used to really
[10:20] <mungbean> exactly
[10:20] <shrik> BigRedS: have you heard the Brian May version?
[10:21] <NET||abuse> hmm, richer sounds maching amazon for price now on that tv..
[10:21] <mungbean> what's worse is watching non HD content on a 1080p telly
[10:21] <NET||abuse> why can't i just win a tv somehow :)
[10:21] <daftykins> playing SD eps on my HTPC out onto my TV actually look impressively good
[10:21] <mungbean> i'm a bit anti "Richard Sounds" cos of one of their jerky staff being jerky
[10:22] <daftykins> we have a particularly shocking cinema over here, so i'd definitely much prefer to watch things at home than there :D
[10:22] <mungbean> i like calling it Richard Sounds in conversation, and people saying, did you just say Richard? "no of course not"
[10:22] <mungbean> then doing it again
[10:23] <BigRedS> shrik: no...
[10:23]  * BigRedS googles
[10:23] <daftykins> mungbean: sounds like a hoot
[10:24] <shrik> BigRedS: he collab'ed with the creator of badger badger to produce a version protesting the badger cull
[10:24] <BigRedS> ah, I did hear about that actually
[10:26] <daftykins> Weebl's stuff!
[10:26] <BigRedS> Handy pie cannon!
[10:29] <daftykins> XD
[10:29] <daftykins> everyone knows 1.5 is better than 1
[10:45] <daftykins> aaaaah running out of storage space
[10:45] <daftykins> 5TB isn't enough
[10:45] <daftykins> :<
[10:54] <BigRedS> yes it is. you have too much stuff
[10:54] <daftykins> naaah
[10:54] <daftykins> it's just the state of HD video
[10:55] <daftykins> on a clients system we're using about 9TB just from his ~950+ DVD collection all ripped onto storage, to provide for discless HTPCs
[11:07] <diplo> What do you rip to daftykins ?
[11:07] <diplo> I run a si,ilar system, upto about 4TB myself
[11:07] <diplo> similar*
[11:07] <daftykins> which source type?
[11:07] <diplo> Rip the DVD's to what format ?
[11:08] <daftykins> on the clients collection we hired a kid out of our local College of FE, just got him to 1:1 dump down to ISO
[11:08] <daftykins> i've been debating going through them and chopping out just the film though
[11:08] <diplo> Oh, so just stored the ISO, I've done that a few times but mainly I rip to mkv/mp4
[11:08] <daftykins> maybe even just dumping them into a single file .VOB would still play nicely in XBMC and escape the wasted data
[11:09] <daftykins> yeah i did play a bit with H.264 transcoding
[11:09] <daftykins> but i wasn't very pleased with the result
[11:09] <diplo> I've done that before, but my disk space was dropping quickly so went the route of transcoding
[11:10] <daftykins> *nod*
[11:10] <daftykins> this guy is happy to just get more storage
[11:10] <daftykins> more than the 12TB he already has :D
[11:10] <daftykins> at least he was until 4 of the WD2002FYPS disks died in the same week
[11:10] <daftykins> that was the worst luck i have ever seen
[11:11] <diplo> hah, I'm waiting for mine to do that as well, as I can't afford to replace anything atm :(
[11:11] <diplo> Really need to sort a ups etc
[11:11] <daftykins> you don't have one on your storage? D:
[11:12] <daftykins> ~£140 for an APC 900VA
[11:12] <diplo> Nope, cash constraints :/
[11:12] <daftykins> ah :(
[11:12] <diplo> Single dad, left house with a huge mortage.. I save a few months to buy stuff for me and lots of other things have been breaking :(
[11:13] <diplo> Really ought to find some more private work to get some *treat* money
[11:13] <daftykins> :(
[11:13] <daftykins> what sort of work do you do?
[11:14]  * christel hugs diplo 
[11:14] <diplo> IT, web dev/sysadmin for a company in nottingham, but i'm based near bath
[11:14] <diplo> Hiya christel
[11:14] <christel> hullu you :)
[11:14]  * diplo gives christel a big squeeze, nice to have you back around here
[11:14] <christel> thank you dear! how are you keeping? :)
[11:16] <daftykins> diplo: ah reet
[11:18] <diplo> Not to bad thank you, been ill for the last 6 months waiting for the NHS to find a fix but gotten fairly used to it now
[11:18] <diplo> Yourself ?
[11:18] <christel> auchies, that is a bit rubbish -- any closer to a resolution, medically?
[11:18] <diplo> Getting closer, been to see a Neurologist this morning, been asking to go since Feb
[11:19] <diplo> They think it's something called Horners Syndrome
[11:19] <christel> that's some eye thing right?
[11:19] <diplo> Basically severe headaches all the time, and lost a lot of strength in my left arm
[11:19] <diplo> Bloomin eck! someone heard of it!!!
[11:19] <diplo> Even the consultants hadn't :D
[11:20] <christel> hehe
[11:20] <diplo> yeah, pupils are dilated differently is the first notice, can cause lot's of different conditions and can be caused by lots of different things
[11:20] <christel> that has to be hard, particularly with the little ones to look after
[11:20] <diplo> One thing they've cleared is that it's not cancer/tumour related which is a good start
[11:21] <diplo> Yeah, can be vv hard at times :)
[11:22] <christel> good! lets hope they figure it all out so that they can find the best treatment for you!
[11:22] <diplo> yeah I'm crossing my fingers, was hoping it would be resolved in a few weeks, not 6+ months :)
[11:27]  * Myrtti jumps into the Wikipedia timesink vortex with Horners Syndrome
[11:28] <shauno> pro tip: take a ball of yarn with you, or you may never find your way back out.  and don't click the 'random page' link, it's laced with cocaine.
[11:29] <Myrtti> yeah I noticed the cocaine lacing
[11:29] <Myrtti> relatedly I poked http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apraclonidine only gently
[11:34] <diplo> I've taken more drugs than I care for, probably had that.. lost track :D
[11:39] <knightwise>  
[11:50] <BigRedS> Aw. I quite enjoyed pointing out that Ubuntu *still* hasn't even fixed its first bug.
[11:52] <shauno> it should probably be closed anyway.  apple are winning now, not msft ;)
[11:52] <BigRedS> haha
[11:52] <AlanBell> you can buy a chromebook too
[12:09] <daftykins> http://i.imgur.com/Ituy9UF.jpg
[12:09] <daftykins> ooh yeah, kit is here for my friends new PC
[12:12] <shauno> toys :D
[12:12] <daftykins> yep i get the fun of a completely new build without having to pay, ideal world \o/
[12:17] <daftykins> but first, it's lunch time :>
[12:18] <diddledan> morning
[12:21] <daftykins> hey diddledan
[12:22] <daftykins> ooh and my bike shop just text me to say my bike's ready to pick up
[12:28] <brobostigon> :)
[12:28] <mungbean> my scooter arrived yesterday :D
[12:28] <mungbean> but it rained today :(
[12:29] <dogmatic69> any idea how to stop thunderbird showing messages in the gmail folder
[12:29] <mungbean> stupid summer
[12:29] <dogmatic69> I have it configured with a gmail account so emails go all over, inbox, inportant, gmail inbox
[12:32] <dogmatic69> eg: new mail shows up by the green dots, just want to ignore / remove the crossed out section http://i.imgur.com/sEhPS6i.png
[12:36] <shrik> woah
[12:36] <shrik> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/1/comments/1834
[12:36] <lubotu3`> Ubuntu bug 1 in Ubuntu Malaysia LoCo Team "Microsoft has a majority market share" [Critical,In progress]
[12:37] <shauno> .my have claimed it?
[12:42] <diddledan> that's ironic considering it was being discussed in here just now - or was the discussion in response to that?
[12:42] <BigRedS> Yeah, I mentioned it when I saw it'd been closed
[12:42] <BigRedS> not that .my had their own
[12:43] <diddledan> .my?
[12:43] <BigRedS> Oh, wait, there's loads of people/groups it's assigned to
[12:44] <diddledan> yup. everyone and their dog has it on their list these days
[12:45] <knightwise> hey guys
[12:45] <knightwise> anyone using owncloud here ?
[12:46] <mungbean> yes
[12:46] <shauno> yup
[12:46] <knightwise> I have setup an external folder for storing some files (on the same local machine)
[12:46] <knightwise> But when I want to use the music application , it does not scan that external folder :(
[12:46] <knightwise> it only scans whats in /var/www/owncloud/data ... etc...
[12:48] <knightwise> anyone know how to configure it to scan /home/gpodder ?
[12:49] <mungbean> owncloud client -> add folder
[12:49] <shauno> I think that's going to involve symlink botches.  otherwise if you just get it to scan that folder, it won't be able to play them because apache's not serving that path
[12:49] <knightwise> shauno: i think you are right.
[12:50] <knightwise> would it be better to drop a simlink in my /var/www/owncloud/... folder ?
[12:50] <mungbean> on the server?
[12:51] <mungbean> ah, you are trying to stream it
[12:51] <knightwise> YES ! :)
[12:51] <mungbean> i just use it for backups
[12:51] <knightwise> you see , gpodder downloads the files on the server
[12:52] <shauno> well, adding it with the client is how it's designed to work.  gpodder is your local copy, and then the client syncs it to the server
[12:52] <knightwise> and thanx to owncloud I can play my podcasts / music on any device-browser
[12:52] <shauno> to avoid that duplication with them being on the same machine, is going to be hacky
[12:52] <knightwise> you lost me there , wait i'll try to reexplain
[12:52] <knightwise> gpodder downloads podcasts to /home/gpodder (chmod 777)
[12:53] <knightwise> I have pointed owncloud towards that folder as an "external folder" for my user on owncloud
[12:53] <knightwise> in the files directory , everything shows up fine
[12:53]  * TheOpenSourcerer shudders whenever he sees "777"
[12:53] <knightwise> but in the music section , the directory does not get scanned :(
[12:53] <knightwise> TheOpenSourcerer: its an internal system could also do 755
[12:53] <mungbean> bug #1 should be "invalid" rather than "released?"
[12:54] <lubotu3`> bug 1 in Ubuntu Malaysia LoCo Team "Microsoft has a majority market share" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1
[12:54] <TheOpenSourcerer> "gpodder downloads podcasts to ... "
[12:54] <knightwise> gpodder downloads my podcasts to /home/gpodder
[12:54] <TheOpenSourcerer> Then gives everything executable rights?
[12:54] <BigRedS> TheOpenSourcerer: don't get into supporting commodity hosting :)
[12:54] <knightwise> no , i opened up the rights.
[12:55] <TheOpenSourcerer> lol BigRedS
[12:55] <knightwise> i just wanted to point out that owncloud has rwx access to that folder , so its not a permissions issue
[12:55] <BigRedS> knightwise: does owncloud have rights to the parent dir? /home?
[12:55] <knightwise> Wat !
[12:56] <knightwise> hold your horses :) It seems to have fixed itsself
[12:56] <knightwise> the folder is being scanned :)
[12:56] <knightwise> its working ! :)
[12:56] <diddledan> I don't believe in issues "fixing themselves"
[12:57] <knightwise> no , it just took a little while for the folder to be scanned
[12:57] <BigRedS> TheOpenSourcerer: to be fair, the execute bit on a directory permits people to enter it, so it's frequently needed by things that read
[12:57] <TheOpenSourcerer> Yes. BigRedS I am familiar with octal permissions ;-)
[12:58] <BigRedS> Oh, you've done this before? :)
[12:59] <TheOpenSourcerer> This was a very interesting exercise I did some years ago: http://www.theopensourcerer.com/2008/04/a-shared-drop-box-using-samba/
[12:59] <TheOpenSourcerer> Still working today.
[13:00] <BigRedS> ahh, sticky bits!
[13:00] <daftykins> aaah the smell of new hardware
[13:00] <TheOpenSourcerer> :-)
[13:01] <diddledan> I love the smell of ink on new manuals
[13:01]  * TheOpenSourcerer loves the smell of curry.
[13:01] <BigRedS> that is a bit cunning. I'll remember that one
[13:01] <diddledan> yeah, that too
[13:17]  * xnox thinks i utterly screwed up my laptop.
[13:18] <diddledan> in the fun way?
[13:18] <diplo> TheOpenSourcerer: Do you make a lot of currys as well, I know you like your chillies etc.. if so where do you get recipes from that you can recommend ? I've stupidly offered to do a curry night :)
[13:18] <xnox> it was doing dist-upgrade to saucy, and it was plugged into it's power supply brick, well..... the power brick on the other hand was not plugged into the wall.
[13:18] <xnox> I think initramfs got regenerated in the mean time without cryptsetup and thus i can't boot now =)
[13:18] <diddledan> oops
[13:19] <TheOpenSourcerer> diplo: I do do lots of cooking. I have ~400 cook books.
[13:19] <TheOpenSourcerer> http://ratemyspicerack.com/opensourcerer/ ;-)
[13:20] <diddledan> did you know there's a world record of the number of chillis a person can mush into their eyeballs?
[13:20] <TheOpenSourcerer> I also use the internet a lot. This chap has some cracking recipes: http://www.greatcurryrecipes.net/
[13:20] <TheOpenSourcerer> diddledan: yes.
[13:20] <xnox> kernel panics, OOPSES and all that jazz =)
[13:20] <TheOpenSourcerer> And she did it with Nagas too.
[13:21] <diplo> I like to cook as well, never got in to currys though although I've always wanted to try, came up in convo and the nominated me to do a 'curry night'
[13:21] <mungbean> nagios?
[13:21] <diddledan> xnox: methinks it's an ex laptop
[13:21] <diplo> thanks for the link, will take a looksy tonight!
[13:21] <diddledan> nagios as in the thingy to monitor uptime :-p
[13:22] <diddledan> it's got sharp edges so it's harder to mush into your eyeballs
[13:22] <mungbean> chilli peppers make me bed/toilet ridden for 2 days anyway
[13:22] <TheOpenSourcerer> diddledan: https://plus.google.com/104060033182234025482/about/p/pub
[13:22] <mungbean> like jabbing needles in my belly
[13:23] <TheOpenSourcerer> That picture is of one of this year's C.Pubescens about to flower.
[13:23] <diddledan> hmm, I just get a blank page :-(
[13:23] <TheOpenSourcerer> Chillies are kind of "my thing"
[13:23] <diddledan> with the google + header
[13:24] <popey> same here
[13:24] <popey> it redirects a load then fails
[13:24] <TheOpenSourcerer> Ohh - how about this then: https://plus.google.com/104060033182234025482/about
[13:24] <diplo> yeah, thought it was because I wasn't logged in
[13:24] <mungbean> didn't you get the memo? flickr is back
[13:25] <diddledan> that loads
[13:25] <diddledan> mungbean: serialz?
[13:25] <diplo> Going to have to go shopping TheOpenSourcerer, some good looking recipes on there!
[13:25] <TheOpenSourcerer> lol - the first link was what google me to view my profile as someone else.
[13:26] <mungbean> diddledan: what's that about cereal? coco pops pls
[13:27] <diddledan> lol.. it's a response that shauno got in an email at his workplace - I forget the ins-n-outs but it's funny
[13:28] <bigcalm> What do people think a sensible time window should be for an API command? To allow for a command from a server not to be correct (or at least not the same as the receiving server)?
[13:30] <diplo> From start of call to complete you mean ?
[13:30] <dwatkins> session timeout from login to expiry?
[13:32] <bigcalm> diplo: not so much. Consider a command that was issued yesterday, didn't get to the end server. The same command and timestamp were resent to the server, the command should be rejected because the timestamp is too far in the past
[13:32] <bigcalm> Same for the future, in case the server is in the past with respect to the client
[13:33] <bigcalm> We can assume the timestamp will always be seconds since the epoc and be gmtbased - this removed the problem of timezones
[13:34] <diplo> Depends I guess on what the time frame of the API call is, ie what data it's getting for it to complete but I'd go with double the time it takes to run ?
[13:36] <ball> Stick it in a config file in case someone has to change it.
[13:36] <ball> That's just a thought, anyway.
[13:37] <ball> ...or make it a compile-time option.
[13:48] <mungbean> argh this weather
[13:48] <mungbean> heavy rain again
[13:48] <mungbean> the weeds will be laughing at me
[13:51] <DJones> mungbean: The father of my neighbour is next door doing his garden while the neighbour is away, he's actually using a chainsaw
[13:52] <mungbean> all the flower beds are now grass and weeds
[13:52] <mungbean> my neighbours are glaring at me
[13:53] <ball> mungbean: Where are you?
[13:53] <DJones> I'll have to cut my grass in the next day or so, weather looks dry & fairly sunny for the next week
[13:54] <ball> It's a beautiful sunny day here but we've had plenty of rain, so I've not needed to water the garden.
[13:54] <diplo> Just started pouring down here
[13:55] <diplo> Was quite sunny this morning
[13:55] <diddledan> wall-to-wall white cloud here
[13:56] <diplo> ball: from memory aren't you state side ? Been a long time
[13:57] <mungbean> i only have 30 mins every 2 weeks to cut my lawn and weeding
[13:57] <mungbean> ball: N London
[13:58] <ball> diplo: Yes, I live in Illinois.
[13:58] <ball> mungbean: It takes me longer than 30 minutes just to mow the lawn.
[13:59] <ball> It's not huge but it's also not as flat as I would like.
[13:59] <mungbean> i have a london lawn
[13:59] <ball> ...and my mower is deafening.
[13:59] <ball> My mother is from London, originally.
[13:59] <ball> Dad was from Wiltshire.
[14:01] <diplo> Wiltshire \o/
[14:01] <popey> my new lawn mower arrived the other day, garden is like a jungle
[14:01] <diplo> My lawn takes me 2 hours ish
[14:01] <popey> not been able to mow yet because it's too wet
[14:05]  * xnox did mine during bank holiday monday =)
[14:05] <diplo> Need petrol one, borrow dads and it's done in maybe 30-45 mins
[14:05] <diplo> My dad came over and did mine last week \o/
[14:05] <xnox> diplo: win!
[14:05] <ball> popey: Did you go with petrol or electric?
[14:05] <ball> ...or pushy-whirly one?
[14:05] <diplo> Defo, although he does a rubbish job it's better than me not doing it :D
[14:05] <popey> battery
[14:05] <popey> i already have petrol one which I will get rid of
[14:05] <ball> popey: Nice.
[14:05] <popey> wanted something lighter and easier to use
[14:06] <ball> My next one will be electric (so that I can hear the podcast better while I'm mowing the lawn)
[14:06] <ball> ...but this petrol mower may outlive me.
[14:06] <ball> It was my wife's grandfather's mower.
[14:06]  * TheOpenSourcerer has a ride on mower
[14:06] <ball> Is the Flymo still a thing?
[14:06] <TheOpenSourcerer> Very much Petrol powered.
[14:06] <ball> TheOpenSourcerer: That might be fatal for me.  Mowing the lawn is my primary form of exercise ;-)
[14:06] <popey> this battery powered jobbie is night and light, so wifey can do the lawn ㋛
[14:06] <christel> i managed to mow a tiny bit of my lawn yesterday then it started raining and i gave up!
[14:06] <dwatkins> If I had a lawn, I'd get a robot to mow it, or a sheep.
[14:07] <ball> dwatkins: If I thought I could get away with having a sheep in town, that would be a tempting idea.
[14:07] <ball> I used to know a couple with a few lambs in a pen that they used to move around.  It'd mow and fertilize the lawn at the same time!
[14:08] <mgdm> a friend of mine has a croft, which had got all kinds of rocks and such in it
[14:09] <mgdm> so he got some pigs, and fenced off a bit of the croft - they then turned the ground over, fertilized it, and moved all the rocks out
[14:09] <mgdm> he can now use that bit of the garden and also have pork chops
[14:09] <ball> Heh.
[14:10]  * ball ponders whether or not to go and visit a customer.
[14:10] <mungbean> my flymo blew up when the grass got too long
[14:10] <mungbean> my neighbour asked me to cut it
[14:11] <mungbean> i said my wife is pregnant
[14:12] <popey> your neighbour asked you to?
[14:12] <dwatkins> does that make it more or less likely you'll cut their grass?
[14:12]  * ball is confused
[14:13] <mungbean> the neighbour said we would get rats cos of my 4 week old grass
[14:13] <BigRedS> Oh, I assumed his neighbor asked him to cut his own grass
[14:13] <mungbean> my dog was refusing to poo on it
[14:13] <mungbean> cos it tickled her bum
[14:14] <BigRedS> hahaha
[14:19] <SuperEngineer> from the "things not to see at logon files": "my dog was refusing to poo on it cos it tickled her bum"
[14:19] <mgdm> yeah. That'd be more 'logoff'
[14:19] <SuperEngineer> ;)
[14:21] <mungbean> lol
[14:21] <mungbean> #context
[14:23] <SuperEngineer> I assume https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/1/comments/1834 is old news by now; but I found it a revealing insight into some recent "rationales"
[14:23] <lubotu3`> Ubuntu bug 1 in Ubuntu Malaysia LoCo Team "Microsoft has a majority market share" [Critical,In progress]
[14:25] <brobostigon> what the command again, to make something in /var/www writable by apache ?
[14:25] <brobostigon> please.
[14:25] <xnox> SuperEngineer: i found out about 10 minutes ago. It's a remarkable event.
[14:25] <ball> brobostigon: Does apache own the file?
[14:26] <brobostigon> ball: chown -r www-data: /folder ?
[14:27] <ball> brobostigon: I didn't say that ;-)
[14:27] <brobostigon> ball: no, i am suggesting an option.
[14:28] <SuperEngineer> xnox: feels kind of premature... it was my main enjoyment in usning Ubuntu [to defeat the "Windowsers"].  Could have sent me a "prepare yourself" first!  ;)
[14:29] <ball> brobostigon: WHo owns the file?
[14:29] <SuperEngineer> Guess I'll have to just put up with the apps and usefulness instead ;)
[14:29] <xnox> SuperEngineer: with 5% laptops shipped pre-installed with Ubuntu worldwide in 2011 & increasing. With Microsoft being Canonical's client and actively writting software for ubuntu and the linux kernel. With PC manufacturers advertising and selling ubuntu machines as "gaming machines". With Steam on Linux........
[14:29] <ball> brobostigon: ...and is that user in the same group as Apache?
[14:29] <xnox> SuperEngineer: i was not prepared for any of it to happen.
[14:30] <brobostigon> ball: chowning it, solved the issue.
[14:30] <BigRedS> xnox: when MS submitted that code to the kernel for Linux on Hyper-V support, I remember all the "Linus has won" stuff, surely you saw that?
[14:30] <ball> brobostigon: Well that's one approach.
[14:31] <ball> (albeit a brute force one ;-)
[14:31] <SuperEngineer> ooo let's allstart a gripe mail chain the list - he should have warnewd us!!!  lol
[14:31] <SuperEngineer> *on the list
[14:31] <brobostigon> ball: certainly, i have only changed temporerily, what needs opening, and will then close it again.
[14:31] <daftykins> this 4GB nvidia GTX 680 is huge :D
[14:32] <diddledan> daftykins: three slots wide?
[14:32] <diddledan> or the usual two?
[14:32] <daftykins> http://imgur.com/AQAwMup,EQeygsK
[14:32] <daftykins> more the foot long aspect
[14:32] <diddledan> is that a silent cooler?
[14:33] <diddledan> or are there fans underneath?
[14:34] <diddledan> I don't like that they stuck plastic wrapping all over it - bound to miss some when it goes into the system
[14:34] <daftykins> two fans
[14:34] <daftykins> you'd never get passive on a GTX 680
[14:34] <daftykins> hellz no
[14:35] <daftykins> these gainward setups are really quiet though
[14:35] <daftykins> at least the one on my 560 Ti is
[14:35] <daftykins> :>
[14:36] <diddledan> I wonder if anybody has Quad-SLI'd 4 titans yet :-p
[14:47] <diddledan> are there any pre-packaged systems akin to freeipa.org for ubuntu servers?
[14:50] <daftykins> aww yeah she's up first time
[14:51] <daftykins> was there ever any doubt? no, no
[14:53] <BigRedS> diddledan: is that an SSO-in-a-box?
[14:53] <diddledan> BigRedS: yeah, seems to be
[14:53] <BigRedS> oooh
[14:54] <diddledan> probably overkill for what I was thinking of using it for
[14:54] <diddledan> but still useful
[14:57] <diplo> That looks good diddledan
[14:57] <diplo> You tried it ?
[14:57] <diddledan> diplo: not yet
[14:58] <diddledan> it's annoying that it requires a redhatish distro
[14:58] <diplo> Downside I guess is the Fedora which I guess is why you were asking, from what I remember when reading up though is you can get Directory Server to work on other OS's at a push
[14:58] <diplo> Could be wrong though
[14:58] <diplo> Might give it a go anyhoo
[14:59] <diplo> https://launchpad.net/freeipa
[14:59] <diddledan> yeah, that's only the client
[14:59] <diddledan> from what I can tell
[15:00] <diplo> well it's adding directory server and sssd packaged so i'd say the whole thing ?
[15:00] <diplo> * Make Ubuntu Server capable of acting as FreeIPA Server.
[15:00] <diddledan> on precise (that's 12.04, right?):
[15:00] <diddledan> Binary packages
[15:00] <diddledan> freeipa-client (amd64) (armel) (armhf) (i386) (powerpc)
[15:00] <diddledan> python-freeipa (amd64) (armel) (armhf) (i386) (powerpc)
[15:00] <diplo> yeah
[15:01] <diddledan> that's from https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/precise/+source/freeipa
[15:01] <diplo> It's to package, wonder if they didn't get that far yet :)
[15:01] <BigRedS> I guess that it wants full-on SELinux support, so it'll use something that does it by default
[15:22] <shauno> I really wish redhat would actually put their name on the page when they launch these things, it'd make the whole process a lot more transparent
[15:24] <diddledan> some things they put the "redhat emerging technologies" logo on, but it's still not quite the same as saying "we're behind this"
[15:24] <diplo> oh it's Redhat behind it then ?
[15:24] <diddledan> seems so, yeah
[15:24] <shauno> I assume so.  they're using redhat.com's mailman instead of fedoraproject.org's, and redhat inc own the domain name
[15:25] <Laney> I could go for some free IPA
[15:25] <dwatkins> I get big warnings on my server/netbook that its Ubuntu release is no longer supported. I guess I should consider upgrading it or replacing it with a Raspberry Pi.
[15:25] <shauno> but they didn't go so far as to actually mention red hat at all on the about page
[15:25] <TheOpenSourcerer> did someone say beer?
[15:25] <dwatkins> It's running 11.04
[15:25]  * TheOpenSourcerer *loves* IPA
[15:26] <Laney> yeah I quite like it
[15:26] <Laney> in CA just now it's *everywhere*
[15:26] <diplo> dwatkins: my home server is still on natty ( was the 04 ? )
[15:26] <Laney> s/it's/it was/
[15:26] <diplo> need more disks before upgrade though
[15:26] <TheOpenSourcerer> Decent stuff?
[15:26] <daftykins> IPA's aftertaste is nasty to me
[15:26] <daftykins> i go for dark ales instead
[15:26] <Laney> like the pub over the road had about 8 "IPAs" on and 4 other beers
[15:26] <dwatkins> diplo: yeah, Natty
[15:26] <TheOpenSourcerer> IPA's aftertaste is what makes it so yummy
[15:26] <Laney> i wouldn't have called them all IPA but some were drinkable
[15:27] <Laney> http://www.bluemonkeybrewery.com/beers/infinity
[15:27] <Laney> going to the pub tonight - will be on this I think
[15:27] <TheOpenSourcerer> Greensands IPA (Surrey Hills Brewery) is gorgeous.
[15:27] <Laney> yum yum yum
[15:27] <shauno> I tend to avoid IPA because far too many of them turn into a fight to see how hoppy they can make it before it ceases to be liquid
[15:28] <TheOpenSourcerer> http://www.surreyhills.co.uk/9089.html
[15:28] <Laney> shauno: that's what tasters are for!
[15:30] <TheOpenSourcerer> Darwin's Origin is also rather awesome: http://www.salopianbrewery.co.uk/beers.php
[15:33] <bashrc> Here's a question: see that there calendar when you click on the date.  Is there an API to shove events into it?
[15:34] <AlanBell> bashrc: it is evolution
[15:34] <bashrc> ah
[15:34] <mgdm> It used to be that there was evolution-data-server running in the background, and it has an API
[15:35] <mgdm> not sure if that is still the case
[15:35] <bashrc> Does evolution have a calendar API?
[15:35] <AlanBell> there is an evolution data service running
[15:35] <shauno> python-evolution should expose evolution-data-server I think
[15:35] <bashrc> ok I'll have a look at that
[15:35] <mgdm> it might also answer to DBus? </wild speculation>
[15:36] <shauno> everything answers to dbus, I just have no idea what dbus actually is :(
[15:36] <AlanBell> bonus points if you can get it to point to a google calendar
[15:36] <bashrc> I was wondering whether I could integrate taskwarrior more into the Unity desktop
[15:36] <mgdm> shauno: it's a messaging system used internally by various things
[15:37] <mgdm> shauno: Spotify, for example, has a DBus API you can use to ask what is currenty playing, make it pause, etc
[15:37] <mgdm> it's used for loads of other stuff though, like hotplugging hardware IIRC
[15:37] <diddledan> dbus is weird
[15:38] <diddledan> it's used for all sorts of stuff that doesn't make any sense for a message passing system to be doing
[15:38] <diddledan> and why do we even need another way of passing messages?
[15:39] <mgdm> I use it to do this: https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/p206x206/255175_10150223834702297_5500005_n.jpg
[15:39] <mgdm> (hence knowing about the DBus API in Spotify)
[15:42] <bashrc> I notice that there is a python-dbus package
[15:44] <mgdm> yep
[15:54] <bashrc> http://askubuntu.com/questions/193954/coding-own-applicaion-for-gnome-shell-calendar
[15:55] <bashrc> That might only apply to Gnome shell though
[15:57] <mgdm> I believe that ought to work regardless of G-S vs. Unity
[15:57] <mgdm> certainly worth a bash
[16:00] <bashrc> The sample code at least doesn't crash, which is a good sign
[16:02] <diplo> bashrc: I use dbus in a backup script to detect usb drives and mount them etc
[16:02] <diplo> Python based
[16:02] <SuperEngineer> TheOpenSourcerer: ever tried Exmoor Ale or Exmoor Gold?
[16:02] <diplo> Very good tbh, pity it doesn't work so well on centos5 and at all on 4
[16:03] <mgdm> CentOS 4? There's a blast from the past
[16:03] <daftykins> ugh, running this Intel Management Engine firmware updater
[16:03] <MartijnVdS> You shouldn't touch stuff in archaeological digs
[16:03] <TheOpenSourcerer> SuperEngineer: we have Exmoor Gold on all the time in my local. It's not bad, but a tad too sweet for me. We also have Moondance on as a standard beer which is my tipple of choice at the local.
[16:04] <daftykins> it's not done after minutes already X|
[16:04] <TheOpenSourcerer> SuperEngineer: http://www.triplefff.com/beers.html
[16:04] <diplo> mgdm: We probably still have a dozen customers running it
[16:04] <diplo> We also have some SCO 5? boxes as well
[16:05] <diplo> Customers won't pay to fix, and I've not talked my bosses into us updating as a gesture :)
[16:05] <AlanBell> gosh, from when SCO was a business
[16:05] <TheOpenSourcerer> My local has 8 real ales on normally. ~4 are regular and ~4 vary. Summer Lightning is another regular and very good too, but quite strong ~5%
[16:05] <diplo> heh, I reckon we have 4 customers on SCO, and one in our server room!
[16:07] <diplo> Back on to LDAP for me tomorrow :/
[16:07] <diplo> And at some point, going to tinker with puppet tomorrow as well
[16:08] <SuperEngineer> TheOpenSourcerer: "it's not bad"! What!  I invented it - it was my invention whilst at Golden Hill Brewery!
[16:08] <TheOpenSourcerer> Gosh.
[16:08] <SuperEngineer> TheOpenSourcerer: & the first beer to use or append "Gold"
[16:08] <SuperEngineer> applause welcome
[16:08] <popey> hah
[16:09]  * AlanBell claps
[16:09] <TheOpenSourcerer> Well that's a very cool claim to fame!
[16:09]  * popey claps
[16:09] <popey> +1
[16:09] <SuperEngineer> thankyou folks
[16:09] <TheOpenSourcerer> I still prefer Moondance though ;-)
[16:09] <TheOpenSourcerer> **MOAR HOPS**
[16:10] <SuperEngineer> TheOpenSourcerer: each to their own and none the worse for it - open source - open beer choice ;)
[16:10]  * TheOpenSourcerer was due to be out making merry in Farnham this evening.
[16:10] <bigcalm> TheOpenSourcerer: liking your hops? I'm guessing you'd enjoy Hopping Mad
[16:10] <TheOpenSourcerer> But we have postponed our activities so I will be popping into my local for a swift few fairly shortly.
[16:11] <TheOpenSourcerer> bigcalm: Can't say I recall trying it but I probably have.
[16:11] <diddledan> "free as in beer" discuss
[16:12]  * diddledan fetches popcorn
[16:12] <Laney> i hate it
[16:12] <TheOpenSourcerer> I'm a big IPA fan. UK breweries make some fantastic IPAs around the 4.5% mark. Golden colour, not too sweet and loads of hops.
[16:12] <Laney> everything should cost at least 100 quid
[16:12] <MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: contact my brothers :) I'm sure they can find a way to get their "Dutch Pale Ale" to you :)
[16:12] <diddledan> but. beer isn't usually free of cost, therefore using the term "free as in beer" to mean you don't pay anything is just wrong
[16:12] <TheOpenSourcerer> All this talk of beer is not helping me write my project spec...
[16:12] <MartijnVdS> diddledan: you're supplying? :)
[16:13] <MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: http://www.vandestreek-bier.nl/
[16:13] <daftykins> diddledan: i'd hope talking about that topic is akin to preaching to the choir in here ;)
[16:13] <bashrc> I'm not much of a beer drinker
[16:13] <bashrc> I try not to drink and code
[16:14] <MartijnVdS> bashrc: but that makes it so much more fun!
[16:14] <TheOpenSourcerer> MartijnVdS: BROEDERS sounds alright. Ask them to send me a case FoC ;-)
[16:14] <diddledan> it seems to be prevelant amongst forums to use the term free as in beer to mean gratis, and I just don't understand how somebody can get that end of the stick
[16:14] <bashrc> I use the term "free as in beards"
[16:15] <MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: They'll be in the UK for some kind of beer festival in july or august, you can email them and ask if they can save one for you :)
[16:15] <diddledan> women might object to that.. unless they really can muster a beard of their own
[16:15] <bashrc> maybe so
[16:15] <daftykins> they will in old age
[16:15] <mgdm> Not really. Most women are beard-free.
[16:15] <MartijnVdS> diddledan: "Any opposite sex escort taken to an event in an effort to give a homosexaul person the apperance of being out on a date with a person of the opposite sex."
[16:15] <MartijnVdS> diddledan: == beard
[16:16] <TheOpenSourcerer> Thanks MartijnVdS I will. I'll explain you told me to ask them for some free beer and said it would be fine ;-)
[16:18] <AlanBell> urban dictionary has a lot to answer for
[16:18] <bashrc> In the past I did think of maybe making some beer brewing system using an Arduino, but then I thought that I'd only end up with an excess of beer.  It might make me more popular though :-)
[16:19] <diddledan> popular is good, provided it's popular with the right kind of people
[16:19] <MartijnVdS> ಠ_ಠ @ TheOpenSourcerer
[16:19] <bashrc> My rate of beer consumption is not very fast.  I think I still have some bottles left over from months ago.
[16:19] <diddledan> I had 4 bottles of beer for xmas. I've drunk 1
[16:19]  * TheOpenSourcerer is not sure that an excess of beer is even possible.
[16:20] <daftykins> bashrc: definitely best to be savoured than to be used to escape reality i'd say \o/
[16:20] <bashrc> yes
[16:20] <diddledan> I don't drink much. until my brother drags me out on the razzle and then I get completely plastered
[16:20] <daftykins> XD
[16:22] <daftykins> just about finished setting up this new PC
[16:22] <daftykins> itching to see how it performs
[16:23] <bashrc> Is it a desktop?
[16:23] <daftykins> yep
[16:24] <daftykins> http://i.imgur.com/EQeygsK.jpg
[16:24] <bashrc> My desktops are pretty ancient by computer standards, although I have a new laptop
[16:24] <daftykins> i7 3660K, 16GB DDR3 2133MHz, nvidia GTX 680 4GB, Samsung 256GB 840 Pro SSD, 2TB storage HDD
[16:24] <daftykins> *3770K
[16:25] <daftykins> putting it together for a friend :)
[16:25] <daftykins> but i get to play with it in the meantime 8)
[16:25] <bashrc> nice.  I think I may have the mobile version of that graphics card in the laptop.  Couldn't get it to work in 13.04 though
[16:26] <daftykins> 680M? mmm perhaps they didn't have new enough drivers at the time
[16:26] <bashrc> Yes I think that's it
[16:26] <diddledan> 680M must be a beast for a loplop?
[16:26] <daftykins> obviously it won't be quite like the desktop version :D
[16:26] <daftykins> just the same number is all
[16:27] <bashrc> Actually I think it's 630M
[16:27] <diddledan> close 3 and 8 are very similar numbers when you screw your eyes up :-D
[16:28] <bashrc> It doesn't help that it doesn't say what the graphics card is within the manual
[16:28] <daftykins> :D
[16:28] <daftykins> are you at it now?
[16:30] <SuperEngineer> TheOpenSourcerer: re " an excess of beer": Watneys! Excessive use of the word "beer" on their behalf!
[16:31] <TheOpenSourcerer> Oh how ye mock. I grew up on Wantey's Party Sevens
[16:31] <TheOpenSourcerer> s\Watney's
[16:32] <SuperEngineer> TheOpenSourcerer: teenage party drink - great when severley shaken before opening!  :D
[16:32] <TheOpenSourcerer> yep.
[16:33] <SuperEngineer> [I even played that game myself]
[16:33] <TheOpenSourcerer> We used to do that at Reading Rock festival  - shower the crowd in warm Watney's...
[16:34] <SuperEngineer> best fun was when people boo'd at The Sensational Alex harvey Band - they got watney'd
[16:35] <TheOpenSourcerer> When I was a young lad of course early 1980s
[16:35]  * SuperEngineer fonly remembers Reading festival
[16:35] <SuperEngineer> *fondly
[16:36] <diddledan> https://plus.google.com/u/0/111403714821787277067/posts/3WALmWGcgT1
[16:43] <diplo> Right suppose better go home, catch you all later
[16:48] <TheOpenSourcerer> yep - time to head home via the pub for me too.
[16:53] <daftykins> installing some benchmarks and eventually some games to test this PC at last
[16:53] <daftykins> only getting 2MB/sec on Steam :(
[17:36] <GentileBen> http://linux.slashdot.org/story/13/05/30/1520213/ubuntu-closes-longstanding-bug-1 lol
[17:36] <GentileBen> "Mark Shuttleworth of Ubuntu fame has closed the primal bug on Launchpad, standing since 2004 and titled 'Microsoft has a majority market share,' due to the 'changing realities' of tablets, smartphones, and wearable computing."
[17:36] <MartijnVdS> it's not even been 10 years!
[17:36] <GentileBen> 9 years to close a bug on a FOSS project is pretty damn quick.
[17:36] <bashrc> I don't think bug #1 is really fixed.  Walk into any store you like and look around.
[17:37] <lubotu3`> bug 1 in Ubuntu Malaysia LoCo Team "Microsoft has a majority market share" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1
[17:37] <popey> and you'll see non-windows machines
[17:37] <popey> like android tablets and phones
[17:37] <popey> ☻
[17:37] <GentileBen> "Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC marketplace. This is a bug which Ubuntu and other projects are meant to fix." rofl, the self-righteousness of this man astounds me.
[17:37] <bashrc> Not if you want to buy a laptop
[17:37] <GentileBen> If Ubuntu had 90% marketshare, would he purposefully give up share?
[17:37] <GentileBen> I'd guess not.
[17:38] <bashrc> For instance I recently got a laptop.  Did it come with GNU/Linux preinstalled?
[17:38] <GentileBen> popey, Chromebooks have been a disaster.
[17:38] <MartijnVdS> I like my chromebook
[17:38] <GentileBen> bashrc: no, it came with GNU/Hurd.
[17:38] <popey> they have?
[17:38] <MartijnVdS> it lets me browse the web!
[17:38] <GentileBen> popey, yes. The sales figures have been terrible.
[17:38] <bashrc> Chance would be a fine thing
[17:38] <bashrc> It came with Windows 8
[17:38] <GentileBen> Free the Hurd!!
[17:38] <MartijnVdS> GentileBen: ...
[17:39] <GentileBen> If we're going to go all-out FOSS Nazi, let's at least stand behind the daddy of the Free Software movement, RMS.
[17:39] <SuperEngineer> confused - why is it from the Malaysia Loco - assume they posted it... but why ? Where they the first users?
[17:39] <czajkowski> No  scott just edited the bug
[17:39] <popey> no SuperEngineer
[17:39] <GentileBen> I'd sooner trust a toejam-eating hobo than a South African ivory poacher.
[17:39] <popey> wind your neck in a touch GentileBen
[17:39] <bashrc> Even if you include Android, is it possible to buy any system which doesn't have proprietary software preinstalled - as per bug #1
[17:39] <lubotu3`> bug 1 in Ubuntu Malaysia LoCo Team "Microsoft has a majority market share" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1
[17:40] <GentileBen> Um, Android has plenty of proprietary bits as deployed in the real world.
[17:40] <bashrc> yes
[17:40] <GentileBen> Is the Play store app FOSS? Is the Gmail app FOSS? No.
[17:40] <bashrc> exactly
[17:40] <GentileBen> The platform is open-source in the sense that Google release the source several months after general availability...
[17:40] <bashrc> So I don't think we can really declare #1 to be fixed
[17:40] <GentileBen> But it's not managed as an open-source project.
[17:41] <GentileBen> It's closed-source until Google decide to release the code to partners, and then several months later to the community.
[17:41] <GentileBen> Which is a pretty good model - it's been wildly successful.
[17:41] <bashrc> If you want to get code into Andoid and you're not a Google employee, good luck with that
[17:41] <GentileBen> Android is high-quality, stable, and feature-rich.
[17:42] <GentileBen> And it has an excellent app ecosystem...you click download, they install, and are ready to use.
[17:42] <bashrc> I love Android.  But it's not a non-proprietary system, as per bug #1
[17:42] <lubotu3`> bug 1 in Ubuntu Malaysia LoCo Team "Microsoft has a majority market share" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1
[17:43] <GentileBen> bashrc, I'd say bug #0 should be the fact that there are people in the world who think closed-source is inherently inferior.
[17:43] <lubotu3`> Error: Launchpad bug 0 could not be found
[17:43] <GentileBen> We've seen time and time again how open-source projects crash and burn due to terrible project management, internal politics and lack of direction.
[17:43] <bashrc> And no closed-source projects did that?
[17:43] <GentileBen> OOo was a perfect example of that, though LO has picked up the torch.
[17:44] <GentileBen> bashrc, the closed-source ones go out of business. The open-source ones have names like ReactOS.
[17:44] <bashrc> I worked in proprietary software development for a *long* time.  There is no shortage of internal politics and terrible project management.
[17:45] <GentileBen> bashrc, yes, but if you keep producing a poor product in the commercial world, your company eventually tanks.
[17:45] <GentileBen> I still think the best model is open source but with a commercial backer.
[17:45] <bashrc> Exhibit A: Microsoft Windows
[17:45] <bashrc> (a consistently poor product)
[17:45] <GentileBen> That's just trolling.
[17:46] <diddledan> I'm actually quite enjoying running on windows 8
[17:46] <bashrc> Windows ME anybody?
[17:46] <bashrc> Vista?
[17:46] <MartijnVdS> Windows YOU too!
[17:46] <GentileBen> Are you forgetting the days not so long ago, when Linux couldn't even render a desktop environment on a third of PCs, due to lack of functional graphics drivers?
[17:46] <GentileBen> It was literally CLI or nothing, and the zealots asked, "Who needs a DE? CLI all the way!!"
[17:47] <bashrc> I remember the days.  Linux has come a long way.
[17:47] <GentileBen> The fact is that since Microsoft unified their code under the NT kernel, Windows has been a consistently good product.
[17:47] <GentileBen> The only dud from XP onwards was Vista.
[17:48] <bashrc> I think that's debatable
[17:48] <GentileBen> XP, 2003 (and its workstation variant XP x64), Server 2008, 2008 R2, 2012, 7, 8 have all been solid or better.
[17:48] <bashrc> But the basic point is that a poor product doesn't nessessarily mean market relegation.  Much depends upon marketing.
[17:48] <GentileBen> Well, let's be objective.
[17:49] <GentileBen> Is there an office suite which even comes close to matching the functionality of MS Office?
[17:49] <GentileBen> I'm not talking about Word and PowerPoint - I mean Outlook, Excel, Access, Visio, Project, InfoPath, OneNote.
[17:50] <GentileBen> There isn't anything on the market which comes close to Visio which doesn't cost 10x as much.
[17:51] <GentileBen> There's the irony - MS software is the cheap alternative in many cases.
[17:51] <dwatkins> Didn't Microsoft buy Video?
[17:51] <dwatkins> Visio, even
[17:51] <GentileBen> Yeah.
[17:51] <GentileBen> They bought most of their good products.
[17:52] <GentileBen> Even Access and Excel, IIRC...
[17:52] <dwatkins> I imagine that makes a lot of sense to solidify their position.
[17:52] <GentileBen> All of System Center is based on software they bought 5-10 years ago.
[17:52] <GentileBen> What MS are good at doing is buying an obscure product and making it better.
[17:52] <diddledan> they also bought some duds, like foxpro
[17:53] <dwatkins> I'm interested to see where they will go next, I can't see there's a lot of room for improvement in their OS.
[17:53] <bashrc> heh
[17:53] <GentileBen> Eg. System Center 2012 is amazing for the price - the equivalent stack from Symantec or IBM is literally 10-15x the cost.
[17:53] <GentileBen> dwatkins, asking how Microsoft can improve Windows 8 is like asking how you can bowl better than a perfect game.
[17:54] <diddledan> I've never had the chance to try system center
[17:54] <GentileBen> You stray into some philosophical shit I can't even begin to claim to understand.
[17:54] <dwatkins> indeed, although the start menu could do with some tweaking, imho
[17:54] <bashrc> You're claiming that Windows 8 is the perfect OS?
[17:54] <GentileBen> Well, Metro has been a disaster for desktop productivity.
[17:54] <GentileBen> Not as much of a disaster as Unity, but still awful.
[17:55] <dwatkins> anyway, my point is, within the realms of Windows, the latest version is pretty good for what it is, without a complete redesign I can't see MS justifying people buying new versions after this.
[17:55] <GentileBen> (Unity is hands down the worst UX regression of the last 10 years, of any major software project).
[17:55] <bashrc> Microsoft seem to justify new versions every 2-5 years
[17:55] <dwatkins> e.g. you can't easily run an application remotely as far as I know in Windows, it's easy in UNIX environments, because X11 was written to expect that.
[17:55] <GentileBen> dwatkins, isn't Ubuntu moving away from X11, lol?
[17:56] <diddledan> until nothing runs on X11 anymore because we have mir and wayland backends
[17:56] <dwatkins> GentileBen: no idea, I'm still on 11.04 ;)
[17:56] <GentileBen> Despite precisely that argument from engineers?
[17:56] <bashrc> Ubuntu is moving to Mir from X11
[17:56] <diddledan> vnc on unity just fails abismally
[17:57] <dwatkins> diddledan: I have another machine that runs 13.04, x11vnc seems fine... or do you mean the client?
[17:57] <diddledan> no, I mean using the default applications, rather than scouring the repo to find the obscure x11vnc
[17:58] <dwatkins> where might one find out about mir and get an idea of how it works and so on?
[17:58] <diddledan> russia?
[17:58] <dwatkins> diddledan: scouring? I just apt-get install it on most systems I use :)
[17:58] <popey> #ubuntu-mir
[17:58] <dwatkins> popey: I mean the documentation :)
[17:58] <diddledan> that got destroyed after she burned up on re-entry
[17:59] <popey> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Mir
[17:59] <dwatkins> cheers
[17:59] <dwatkins> I suspect one reason Windows didn't advance as fast as it might have was that it had to be backwards compatible a lot.
[18:00] <bashrc> yes.  So for example the file system remains unchanged for approximately 15 years
[18:00] <dwatkins> that's a legacy I can't see changing much
[18:01] <dwatkins> the same is true for Linux in general, is it not?
[18:01] <diddledan> windows hasn't "modernised" as fast as an open source platform because Microsoft has deals with Governments to not deprecate their tried-and-tested IE7
[18:01] <bashrc> It has issues which cause the famous windows slow down
[18:01] <diddledan> hell, even vmware insists on IE7 for it's web interface
[18:02] <diddledan> try running vmware's web console thingy on IE10 in win8 and you're in for complete failure
[18:02] <bashrc> When did anyone last defragment a hard drive on Linux?
[18:02] <popey> i never have
[18:02] <bashrc> exactly
[18:02] <popey> although I do scrub my btrfs machine
[18:02] <dwatkins> Do you still need to defrag partitions on Windows?
[18:02] <popey> and rebalance now and then
[18:04] <bashrc> As far as I'm aware NTFS is still NTFS, so yes.
[18:08] <daftykins> yep
[18:08] <daftykins> just never on an SSD obviously
[18:08] <daftykins> in fact Win7 and presumably 8 are bright enough to disable it on SSDs
[18:10] <bashrc> One thing I notice about Windows 8 on the new laptop is that I didn't get a choice of browsers
[18:11] <daftykins> haha
[18:11] <daftykins> not even 7 has the browser choice thing
[18:12] <diddledan> microsoft got in trouble for win7 not doing the browser ballot. windows 8 does give you a choice, it's just very subtle about it
[18:13] <bashrc> Maybe there was some well hidden checkbox that I missed
[18:14] <SuperEngineer> hmm... http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2013/05/mark-shuttleworth-gives-up-dream-of-ubuntu-toppling-windows/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+arstechnica%2Findex+%28Ars+Technica+-+All+content%29
[18:14] <diddledan> well that's one take I guess
[18:15] <SuperEngineer> that's a different take on a subject - don't they just love to be negative sometimes1
[18:15] <diddledan> I think the opposing view, and the one that Mark was trying to convey, is that ubuntu already toppled windows in combination with the opensource community (with a hat-tip to android for it's teency role)
[18:16] <daftykins> except he conveniently chose to compare mobile and desktop
[18:16] <daftykins> which was a crock of s*** i'm afraid
[18:18] <bashrc> In the mobile market Microsoft has never really had dominance
[18:18] <diddledan> changing the subject completely, who fails to love these two pictures: http://www.geeksaresexy.net/2013/05/30/seductive-harley-quinn-cosplay-by-kitty-young-pics/ ?
[18:19] <daftykins> possibly SFW depending on your boss
[18:19] <diddledan> lol
[18:20] <diddledan> I wasn't going to show the boss
[18:20] <daftykins> why not :(
[18:20] <daftykins> sharing is caring
[18:20] <Darael> o/
[18:20] <SuperEngineer> bbs
[18:20] <Darael> I fail to love them.  My reaction's something of a "meh".  Not... quite... sure... why, but...
[18:22] <bashrc> Also see http://unixporn.com/
[18:22] <diddledan> aparently the cosplay community have been taking up arms. they're fed up of us men treating them as sex objects because their costumes are sexy
[18:23] <bashrc> There was a recent FSF podcast about sexism in FOSS
[18:24] <diddledan> o_O most of those pictures are of physical things and not X11 desktops. I feel dirty now
[18:25] <bashrc> No idea why
[18:26] <diddledan> http://unixporn.com/hate.html
[18:31] <daftykins> pretty boring site
[18:52] <SuperEngineer> interesting... in terminal, if IO press <shift>+either left or right, I get "C" or "D". If if I press <Ctrl C> it types it on screen instead of copying.  Where do I look for resolution, key-bindings? [or google!] :D
[18:54] <diddledan> C and D come from the left and right arrow keys, and not because you also pressed shift. ctrl+c correctly sends the ^C character because you likely want to kill the currently running app with a sigterm. to copy and paster in a gui terminal application the usual keybindings are ctrl+shift+c
[18:55] <SuperEngineer> e.g. shift ctrl-c to copy "boo" & then on pasting to next line "boo^C"
[18:55] <SuperEngineer> ...makes no sense
[18:55] <diddledan> no, you've done something wrong if you got that
[18:56] <SuperEngineer> diddledan: agreed - but what... how's your telepathy?
[18:56] <diddledan> highlight some text and press shift+ctrl+c will copy it - if there's a ^C character in the highlighted block then it will get copied also
[18:57]  * SuperEngineer tries again
[18:58] <diddledan> if I'm ever in doubt I use the middle-mouse-button clipboard
[18:58] <diddledan> i.e. highlight text to copy. press middle mouse button to paste it
[18:58] <diddledan> no other steps in between
[18:59] <SuperEngineer> ...if I'm ever in doubt i restart terminal till it fixes itself... fixed.... but still curious
[19:00] <diddledan> yey for the restart till it works mentality invented by Windows 3!
[19:00] <SuperEngineer> +1
[19:01] <diddledan> seriously. rarely should a restart be required - except in emacs because that's just evil
[19:01] <SuperEngineer> except with a linux sys the app in question will do - not the whole darn system!
[19:01] <diddledan> I've never worked out how to drive emacs
[19:01] <diddledan> vi is easy in comparison for simple stuff
[19:01] <SuperEngineer> ...& what's so wrong with closing & opening the ternal?
[19:02] <diddledan> extra mouse milage?
[19:02] <diddledan> do mice need a 5000mile service?
[19:02] <daftykins> it's giving in! :D
[19:03]  * SuperEngineer hands diddledan  a virtual new mouse
[19:03] <daftykins> get an optical then you only need to clean the desk surface and the feet occasionally :>
[19:03] <SuperEngineer> daftykins: it is *not* giving in - it's my life & time is more important!
[19:04] <daftykins> =]
[19:04] <daftykins> i don't really believe that, i'm just messing
[19:05]  * popey hugs his new no-mouse policy
[19:06] <popey> touchpoint integrated into keyboard and no mouse ftw
[19:06] <SuperEngineer> p.s. daftykins you do not need to clean your feet to use your mouse - it has no opion re your personal hygene ;)
[19:06] <daftykins> the Lenovo style trackpoint spots in the middle?
[19:07] <bashrc> Question: does the calendar under the date link to any other programs?
[19:08] <popey> yes
[19:08] <bashrc> Evolution?
[19:08] <popey> i have an external trackpoint lenovo keyboard on laptop and desktop
[19:10] <daftykins> what a very curious approach
[19:11] <SuperEngineer> popey: i *do not* have an external trackpoint lenovo keyboard on laptop and desktop - maybe you should send me yours so I can "test" them for you?
[19:12] <popey> saves desk space
[19:12] <popey> and i prefer trackpoint to mouse or trackpad
[19:12] <popey> and means it's consistent layout from laptop to desktop
[19:12] <popey> because the external keyboard is identical in layout to the internal keyboard
[19:13] <daftykins> http://www.thinkpads.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/lenovo_thinkpad_usb_trackpoint_keyboard-2.jpg
[19:13] <daftykins> sorta ^?
[19:13] <popey> exactly that but uk layout
[19:19] <directhex> god i hate those things
[19:19] <directhex> they're such dreadful keyboards
[19:19] <directhex> the office loves them though. weirdos
[19:19]  * popey shrugs
[19:20] <daftykins> each to their own
[19:20] <daftykins> a client has rollerball things on his
[19:20] <daftykins> i can't stand them
[19:20] <daftykins> so damned slow to do things
[19:21] <popey> yeah, i hate those rollerball things
[19:21] <popey> friend of mine has an upright one
[19:21] <popey> very odd
[19:21] <daftykins> have to keep moving your fingers back again and again to pan over big screens
[19:21] <daftykins> that guy has a 30" too with a secondary to the side
[19:21] <daftykins> feels like doing a finger marathon ;)
[19:21] <daftykins> right time to cook something
[19:22] <daftykins> just downloaded this free voucher game 'Metro Last Light' on this friends PC build
[19:22] <daftykins> but i've got no sound hooked up to it so it's a bit quiet :D
[19:24] <popey> heh
[19:48] <mungbean> guys
[19:49] <mungbean> got to tell you about a magic trick i just performed
[19:49] <mungbean> you know we were talking about goo off earlier popey ?
[19:49] <mungbean> i had the world most evil sticker residue
[19:49] <popey> goo gone, yeah
[19:50] <mungbean> i mixed olive oil + baking powder
[19:50] <mungbean> put a teaspoon of it on a paper towel
[19:50] <mungbean> and it just disappeared
[19:50] <mungbean> no effort of elbow grease
[19:50] <mungbean> magic
[19:50] <popey> wow
[19:50] <mungbean> how did i get this far in life without knowing this?
[19:51] <mungbean> it struggled where the sticker was still on , but soaking would have removed the sticker (i scraped with fingernail instead)
[19:54] <MartijnVdS> mungbean: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coleman_fuel
[19:54] <MartijnVdS> mungbean: that works :)
[19:56] <mungbean> i'm sure it does :)
[19:56] <mungbean> but i didn't have that in my cupboard
[20:03] <mungbean> unsure whether to consider selling my star wars figures and ships
[20:04] <mungbean> i have rare figures, boxed vehicles, the lot
[20:04] <MartijnVdS> do you need the £?
[20:06] <popey> every so often i ponder selling my JAMMA boards
[20:07]  * MartijnVdS will soon have a PCI DVB-S2 card for sale
[20:07] <MartijnVdS> (with full Linux/Ubuntu support out of the box)
[20:08] <mungbean> i dopn't need the £ right now
[20:08] <mungbean> wonder if demand may drop sometime thogh
[20:08] <MartijnVdS> <- switching to a PCI-E card
[20:08] <MartijnVdS> mungbean: they're making new films
[20:08] <MartijnVdS> mungbean: more fans will be made
[20:09] <mungbean> https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=674288515931372&set=a.148195291874033.32306.148180005208895&type=1&theater
[20:09] <mungbean> thats me
[20:10] <MartijnVdS> but if (current_value > what you paid for it), you won't lose money (you might not make as much as you could have, but that's the risk)
[20:10] <mungbean> i held on to stuff in the past that rose and fell
[20:11] <mungbean> unsure where my transformers went
[20:11]  * bigcalm prods mgdm
[20:11] <mungbean> never saw them after my parents moved
[20:26] <MartijnVdS> For everyone who wants some relaxing music for tonight: http://open.spotify.com/album/0VmzNuJ964FTXeM6EhTZVm
[21:13] <matt_symes> /scripts/moc stop
[21:13] <matt_symes> moc stop
[21:35] <mgdm> bigcalm: hmmm?
[21:36] <bigcalm> mgdm: ah, you're awake :)
[21:36] <mgdm> bigcalm: was at LUG
[21:36] <bigcalm> mgdm: was a question about parsing various data types, but I think I've done all I need to
[21:36] <bigcalm> mgdm: fair enough :)
[21:37] <mgdm> ah :)
[21:44] <bigcalm> This is slightly annoying. MySQL is storing datetimes as BST while time() always returns UTC
[21:44] <bigcalm> Makes comparing things go wrong
[21:45] <daftykins> ooh btw
[21:45] <diddledan> pull out UNIXTIMESTAMP(mysql_column_name)
[21:45] <daftykins> that other island i was at on Monday, pints o' beer cost £2.30 over there - 'tis £3.50 usually here :(
[21:45] <diddledan> then compare to date()
[21:46] <bigcalm> Actually, it might be Doctrine that is being a bugger
[21:46] <diddledan> meh, or whatever the php unixy format time function is
[21:46] <mgdm> date('u')
[21:46] <mgdm> I think? Might be '@'
[21:47] <mgdm> I've been doing PHP for 10+ years and I have to look it up every time
[21:47] <diddledan> I should know this. I do PHP dev for a living
[21:47] <bigcalm> :)
[21:47] <mgdm> date('U')
[21:48] <daftykins> nn everyone
[21:48] <bigcalm> My API has a Timestamp field which is epoc seconds and always in UTC (well should be). Storing in the database, I thought it would be good to have it as a proper DateTime column. Thinking it might be easier just to store the integer (or string)
[21:49] <dwatkins> assuming a large enough number can be used, epoch time should be fine for any date, no?
[21:49] <diddledan> mysql datetime columns are unix timestamps that mysql knows are unix timestamps and can therefore manipulate in date functions
[21:50] <dwatkins> If you're using 32-bit code, you might find the app stops running in 2038, but by then it'll be someone else's problem.
[21:50] <bigcalm> dwatkins: it's 64bit on 64bit servers
[21:51] <dwatkins> bigcalm: you should be fine until we're a type-3 civilisation, then :)
[21:51] <diddledan> type-3?
[21:51] <dwatkins> "may also be able to tap into the energy released from the supermassive black holes which are believed to exist at the center of most galaxies"
[21:51] <diddledan> aaah
[21:52] <dwatkins> see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kardashev_scale#Type.C2.A0III_civilization_methods
[21:52] <bigcalm> A what?
[21:52] <bigcalm> Right...
[21:53] <bigcalm> Do I be cheeky and store the timestamp as a string rather than an integer? :D
[21:53] <dwatkins> Using 64-bit numbers for epoch time will be fine for 293 billion years.
[21:53] <bigcalm> Saves messing about in the database and PHP doesn't really care
[21:55]  * bigcalm grumbles and uses a bigint instead
[21:55] <bigcalm> Then again, there will still be conversion going on: http://docs.doctrine-project.org/en/2.0.x/reference/basic-mapping.html#doctrine-mapping-types
[21:58] <diddledan> even type I civilisation is going to be way beyond my lifetime methinks
[21:59] <lazarus_> hi
[22:05] <bigcalm> Yay, unit testing goes green :D
[22:09] <lazarus_> im trying to determine if its worth changing my router and i dont want to waste money to find out
[22:12] <dwatkins> lazarus_: is there a problem with it?
[22:14] <lazarus_> no just lookin into it to see if i'd gain anything isp told me i should be getting 5mbps i rarely hit 1mbps
[22:15] <lazarus_> i get 600-780kbps
[22:15] <dwatkins> lazarus_: I'd start by testing with several sites, of course
[22:15] <dwatkins> BT reccomend using their own awfully written java-based test site