[06:50] <redtap|away> popey, Could we possibly change the topic to discuss the implementation og bug #1 , today , please ? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/1/comments/1834
[06:50] <lubotu3`> Ubuntu bug 1 in Ubuntu Malaysia LoCo Team "Microsoft has a majority market share" [Critical,In progress]
[06:51] <redtap|away> mmm, strange, I was told it was fixed ?
[06:53] <dwatkins> Phones aren't computers.
[06:53] <redtape|renegade> troo.
[06:54] <dwatkins> Well, strictly speaking they are, but they're not the same as a PC.
[06:54] <redtape|renegade> Aparently , we are **years** away from being able to dock a phone/mobile with a TV too...
[06:54] <redtape|renegade> Morning, TheOpenSourcerer
[06:55] <dwatkins> I use my phone as a remote control for the TV, I don't want to have to dock it with the telly, that would mean I couldn't use it.
[06:55] <redtape|renegade> how about a remote for yur remote ?
[06:55] <dwatkins> yo dawg
[06:57] <redtape|renegade> I'll never understand Mark's fascination with 'znet' .com at all.
[06:58] <dwatkins> zdnet?
[06:59] <redtape|renegade> yeah, did you read my link at 07:50 ?
[06:59] <dwatkins> Yes, I'm reading it now.
[06:59] <dwatkins> Hence my comment that a phone is not a computer :)
[07:00]  * redtape|renegade secretly thinks mozilla phone will be more of a newb's hacking device ...
[07:00] <dwatkins> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_operating_systems shows that MS has a desktop penetration of over 80%
[07:01] <redtape|renegade> ... so he's deluded..    ,then.
[07:02] <dwatkins> no, he's talking about different things at the same time.
[07:02] <redtape|renegade> lik a politician talking stat's I guess ...
[07:02] <redtape|renegade> **like ..
[07:02] <dwatkins> as the zdnet article states, the more important war is between iOS and Android.
[07:03]  * redtape|renegade notes the heoric *ethical* failure of Windoze phone.
[07:03] <dwatkins> ethical?
[07:04] <redtape|renegade> yeah, it's closed
[07:04] <MartijnVdS> it kills your family
[07:04] <dwatkins> so is iOS, does that make it bad?
[07:04] <redtape|renegade> yep.
[07:04] <dwatkins> I disagree. It's different, and perhaps not ideal, but I can see there being benefits to a closed platform.
[07:06]  * redtape|renegade treates this youtuber about this , in his closing statements, as gospel , [a.outler] http://youtu.be/_4-Jr_HphWs?t=6m36s
[07:06] <dwatkins> I don't treat the gospel as gospel ;)
[07:06] <diplo> Morning all
[07:07] <dwatkins> mornin y'all
[07:07] <redtape|renegade> it's is in the 'Open Source' religion, but this is by the by..
[07:08] <dwatkins> Looks like a nice piece of kit.
[07:09] <dwatkins> I like the fact he starts taking out screws after having it switched on for a couple minutes.
[07:10] <redtape|renegade> The dud's a legend in XDA communities ... what can I say ?
[07:10] <redtape|renegade> Have you seen his ADK video ?
[07:10] <dwatkins> noes
[07:10] <redtape|renegade> **dude's a legend ...
[07:10]  * redtape|renegade scans for video .. and follow up video ..
[07:11] <dwatkins> What is ADK in this context?
[07:11] <diplo> He posts a fair bit on G+ as well
[07:12] <redtape|renegade> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C1PCFE1LlC4
[07:12] <dwatkins> cheers
[07:12] <redtape|renegade> ^ .. very telling, and no you cant get one anymore ..
[07:14] <dwatkins> I see your point ("If you can't do with it as you choose, it's not yours") but at the same time, I can see there are security risks to a completely open platform.
[07:14] <dwatkins> Perhaps I'm wrong, but things like app signing require a closed platform as far as I know.
[07:14] <MartijnVdS> dwatkins: the OS on a very closed "secure boot" device can have security flaws as well
[07:15] <redtape|renegade> Here's the original, while you attempt yur breakfast , but watch the follow up first .. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qdglKxxXO8M
[07:15] <dwatkins> yeah, any OS can have flaws, I accept that.
[07:15] <dwatkins> I had breakfast at 6:45, redtape|renegade ;)
[07:16] <redtape|renegade> tré bien. ... Conitnental, I hope ?
[07:20] <dwatkins> you hope? ;) I had bacon and eggs.
[07:39] <popey> morning
[07:39] <MartijnVdS> \o popey
[07:45] <redtape|renegade> o/ hi popey, Dunno if you saw my message earlier ?
[07:47] <popey> people can discuss that, sure.
[07:47] <popey> don't think it needs to go in the topic tho
[07:48]  * redtape|renegade feels ever disappointed.
[07:48] <dwatkins> We've been discussing it, redtape|renegade ;)
[07:49] <redtape|renegade> I know, that's what makes it topic-able..
[07:50] <redtape|renegade> I mean, everyone's joining now .. to see wat the last nights news of this is all about .. Why should the podcast get all the fun ..
[07:53] <popey> no, we don't set the /topic based on what people are talking about, never have
[07:53] <popey> it's for channel announcements, not for "What shall we talk about today"
[07:53] <popey> if we did, then it would change many times a day
[07:53] <redtape|renegade> oh ok . redtape slaps his wrist .. ouch.
[08:07] <bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
[08:08] <MartijnVdS> \o
[08:13] <SuperMatt> morning
[08:13] <knightwise> morning
[08:13] <knightwise> Gah !
[08:14] <knightwise> gpodder is giving me shitty errors about local settings not supported
[08:15] <SuperMatt> knightwise: no swearing!
[08:15] <knightwise> http://pastebin.com/E54zfEbj
[08:15] <knightwise> "Gah" is a Klingon dish .. its not a swearword
[08:16] <bigcalm> knightwise: your 2nd line contained swearing, please try not to do it again
[08:16] <MartijnVdS> knightwise: that's "Gagh"
[08:17] <mungbean> i think they mean the line after gah :P
[08:17] <popey> meh
[08:17] <shrik> morning all
[08:18] <bigcalm> I stopped working at 2am this morning. I wonder if I'm over doing it again
[08:19] <MartijnVdS> working?
[08:19] <MartijnVdS> Ooh! Just got a "Price alert" email
[08:19] <knightwise> Sorry , bigcalm i shall refrain from stating excrental statements
[08:20] <knightwise> MartijnVdS: you are also correct
[08:20] <MartijnVdS> A Dutch web shop has a price for Haswell 4770K
[08:20] <MartijnVdS> (it's €348,90) - http://afuture.nl/productview.php?productID=1002479
[08:20] <redtape|renegade> opening...
[08:21] <redtape|renegade> i see no picture .. (??)
[08:21] <MartijnVdS> redtape|renegade: not allowed yet (embargo/nda)
[08:22] <redtape|renegade> ahh
[08:22] <MartijnVdS> redtape|renegade: This webshop is very much automated, it's a front-end to their suppliers' inventory systems, basically
[08:24] <shrik> anyone use Firefox's dev tools with any regularity?
[08:35] <mungbean> didn't feel like a chump riding a kick scooter to work today. felt aswesome actually
[08:35] <brobostigon> good morning everyone,
[08:36] <shrik> morning brobostigon
[08:36] <MartijnVdS> mungbean: keep telling yourself that :P
[08:36] <brobostigon> morning shrik
[08:37] <mungbean> yeah MartijnVdS , its hard being awesome
[08:50] <JamesTait> Good morning all, happy Friday and happy World No Tobacco Day! :-D
[08:50] <mungbean> a world with no tobacco...ahhhh
[08:50]  * popey lights up
[08:50] <mungbean> that would be nice
[08:50] <MooDoo> hello all
[08:51] <mungbean> hayfever + cigarette smoke = intense irritation
[08:52] <MartijnVdS> \o/ no tobacco day
[08:55] <brobostigon> unlikely to happen here, but one an try nonetheless.
[08:55] <brobostigon> can*
[08:56] <dwatkins> we barely need one here, it's so windy in Scotland you can't tell when someone's smoking near by ;) also, it's banned in-doors, obv.
[08:57]  * brobostigon puts SG sg1 on, and hums the theme tune.
[08:58] <dwatkins> brobostigon: excellent choice, I've been re-watching it recently, am up to season 6, the Jonas year
[08:58] <brobostigon> dwatkins: ah, i like the ones where daniel is ascended.
[08:59] <dwatkins> yeah, although it's a shame he can't break the rules it's fun to see him as not really there
[08:59] <brobostigon> very true.
[09:00] <MartijnVdS> I liked the movie, but the not the TV show
[09:00] <MartijnVdS> too soapy
[09:01] <dwatkins> I see what you mean, MartijnVdS - there were aspects of that, but it was just enough sci-fi, and well, Amanda Tapping <3 :D
[09:02] <brobostigon> which film? there are three if memory serves.
[09:02] <MartijnVdS> brobostigon: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0111282/
[09:02] <dwatkins> hehe
[09:02] <brobostigon> MartijnVdS: the first one, :)
[09:02] <mungbean> we need imdbbot
[09:02] <MartijnVdS> brobostigon: the original!
[09:02] <dwatkins> that's a silly movie poster - they didn't get stargates that big until at least season 9...
[09:03] <brobostigon> MartijnVdS: :)
[09:03] <dwatkins> ...and even then, they were spacegates, not ones you'd land on a planet.
[09:03]  * mungbean doesn't think he fits the techie stereotype
[09:03] <mungbean> the techie non trekkie
[09:03] <brobostigon> dwatkins: very true.
[09:04] <dwatkins> I'm not too bothered about Star Trek any more, I've come to the conclusion that it promotes stereotypes and is rather shallow.
[09:04] <diplo> Anyone here use Redmine with the PPA on 12.04 ?
[09:04] <diplo> default ones on very old in the repos
[09:04]  * awilkins raises hand about Redmine
[09:05] <awilkins> Want my bulletproof Redmine wiki page for installing Redmine on 12.04 ?
[09:05] <awilkins> Have worked a little with Ondrej Sury and his PPA is now more stable and he has an experimental one for breaking packages in
[09:06] <DJones> Heh, don't you love words kids make up https://twitter.com/BBCNewsMagazine/status/340393025664606208 These kids must have seen RMS at some point in their lives
[09:06] <mungbean> is the redmien vulnerable?
[09:07] <awilkins> That's a nice shot of Emma Watson getting a wand at Disney World :-)
[09:07] <diplo> awilkins: That's the one I looked at Ondrej's, never tried it before
[09:08] <diplo> Please, would be very interested
[09:08] <mungbean> i heard about a rails botnet issue
[09:08] <diplo> mungbean: Dunno, but it's only for internal use anyhoo for us
[09:09] <awilkins> diplo: http://paste.ubuntu.com/5719307/
[09:09] <awilkins> diplo, Naked Ubuntu Server VM to working Redmine server in 10 mins
[09:10] <brobostigon> arghhhh, a dumb fly just tried to share my coffee. :(
[09:10] <diplo> Top man, thank you
[09:10] <diplo> Will set up a naked vm now to test :)
[09:11] <awilkins> The mail watcher plugin is just something we do
[09:11] <awilkins> Don't install it without changing the email addresses or your redmine will start spamming all my managers
[09:11] <awilkins> (well, probably not)
[09:11] <diplo> heh, will read through it carefully :)
[09:11] <diplo> Do you integrate with ldap at all, not read through it yet
[09:11] <mungbean> i use with ldap
[09:12] <awilkins> diplo, Yup, we're using the LDAP / Active directory integration
[09:12] <diplo> ooh, LDAP is on my list of learning as well, so will be handy.. great thanks
[09:12] <awilkins> Although I've been trying to make progress on an OpenID Provider that justs uses NTLM / SSPI so we can just auth *everything* automagically
[09:13] <awilkins> Think we have one in the early alpha stages ; on paper it's not hard, you just need an OpenID provider that trusts Apache auth, and an Apache auth module that does NTLM / SSPI
[09:13] <awilkins> The main PITA is that the only reliable one we can find is mod_auth_sspi and that only runs on Windows server
[09:14] <awilkins> Not so far managed to set up mod_auth_kerb properly
[09:14] <diplo> oh, I've not got that far.. basically trying to sort a lot of issues at my work place, including information
[09:14] <diplo> All little projects that I hope to integrate together whilst learning
[09:14] <awilkins> The hardest part is getting buy-in from the people
[09:15] <awilkins> Not everyone takes to wiki pages like a duck to water
[09:15] <awilkins> Especially if you have a lot of SharePoint already
[09:15] <JamesTait> awilkins, amen to that!
[09:15] <awilkins> SharePoint lets them continue to get their digital document crackfix of passing information around as Office docs
[09:16] <diplo> We had sharepoint at my last place, I was in charge of it, it sucked and nobody really used it, glad I'm away from it now
[09:16] <awilkins> The best success I've had is with a team for who I wrote tools - and they write their own manuals as wiki pages, because they can't understand them when I write them :-)
[09:16] <awilkins> Once they're in the habit, that's it, they still tweak them even though the tools have been stable for years
[09:17] <diplo> Well our bug tracker is internal atm, and only now works in Firefox as it was written years ago, can't modify stuff with chrome etc as the code is awful
[09:17] <diplo> tried fixing it but failed so far
[09:17] <awilkins> I find people who roll their own trackers perplexing - we have several of these things
[09:18] <awilkins> I just shake my head and go "But... that's just a bug tracker with <insert  custom workflow here> - why don't you just trash it and replace it with something that has a community..."
[09:19] <awilkins> diplo, If you have the kind of userbase who loves custom workflows, I have some code for turning Dia diagrams into workflow table rows for Redmine
[09:19] <diplo> Exactly, it's where I'm trying to push us now
[09:19] <diplo> Umm they don't have any idea of what to do at the moment, very disorganised small company
[09:19] <awilkins> I should upload it the main project but it's 1) Java 2) involves shell script too 3) not polished
[09:20] <awilkins> I suggest you keep it as simple as possible
[09:20] <awilkins> Don't let them get into month long meetings about what workflow is appropriate
[09:20] <diplo> yeah, base install.. play.. see what bosses think
[09:20] <diplo> And then go from there
[09:20] <awilkins> Use what comes in the box and fix it if that doesn't work for you
[09:20] <awilkins> Also have the "Redmine Backlogs" plugins going if you want to do Scrum / Agile
[09:21] <awilkins> There's another page for that
[09:23] <diplo> mini.iso - stuck at checking ubuntu archive :(
[09:23] <diplo> wonder if nat isn't getting correct details
[09:29] <diplo> Yep, working fine now - bah
[09:46] <NET||abuse> i really do get myself muddled when merging conflicts from svn in a git svn cloned working copy
[09:46] <NET||abuse> had to re svn rebase 3 times to catch i wasn't pulling the changes from my copy into the working copy and only updating the changes back from svn, overriting my own work?
[09:46] <NET||abuse> grrrrr
[09:46] <NET||abuse> meld helps
[09:52] <davmor2_> Morning all
[09:56] <brobostigon> can someone clarify something, what does it mean when described as, (apache with "Options All") ?
[09:56] <MartijnVdS> brobostigon: http://httpd.apache.org/docs/current/mod/core.html#options :)
[09:56] <diplo> Allows things like indexing etc
[09:56] <MartijnVdS> brobostigon: "All" means that all of the listed options are enabled
[09:56] <diplo> Or follow MartijnVdS link :)
[09:57] <brobostigon> MartijnVdS: ok, thank you.
[09:58] <brobostigon> MartijnVdS: and this applies to httpd.conf ?
[09:58] <MartijnVdS> brobostigon: it works everywhere, look at the "Context" bit in the box
[09:58] <MartijnVdS> brobostigon: server config, virtual host, directory, .htaccess
[09:59] <brobostigon> MartijnVdS: ok.
[09:59] <MartijnVdS> brobostigon: it's related to "AllowOverride"
[09:59] <MartijnVdS> brobostigon: if you put "Options None" in httpd.conf, along with "AllowOverride None", you can add it to .htaccess but it won't work
[10:00] <MartijnVdS> but if you said "AllowOverride Options=ExecCGI,Indexes" you can change only those 2 options in the htaccess
[10:00] <brobostigon> MartijnVdS: ah, i think i understand,
[10:01] <MartijnVdS> apache config is easy, once you learn how to read the docs.. it's just a "trick"
[10:01] <brobostigon> yes, i can iamgine, whats the word, cryptic.
[10:27] <diplo> awilkins: Great, installed and working.. will take a copy of the vm and have a tinker now
[10:27] <diplo> Thanks again
[10:28] <awilkins> diplo, You're welcome, if you want the redmine_backlogs plugin install as well, let me know
[10:30] <diplo> Will do, I'll look it up shortly, going to have a good play first
[10:33] <directhex> redmine is great-ish
[10:34] <diplo> You use it at collab directhex ?
[10:39] <awilkins> CollabNet?
[10:39] <awilkins> Don't CollabNet use their own forge software?
[10:39] <awilkins> The downside of Redmine for me is that it's written in Ruby
[10:39] <diplo> Can't remember who directhex works for, no it begins with a C :D
[10:40] <diplo> yeah, same here, not a great fan
[10:40] <mgdm> Collabora
[10:40] <diplo> Looks nice though
[10:40] <diplo> Was close :)
[10:40] <awilkins> Yes, very pretty, lots of good features, active, plugins
[10:40] <awilkins> But I learned Ruby because we picked it up
[10:40] <awilkins> And I think Ruby is horrible
[10:41] <awilkins> It's sooo not Python
[10:41] <awilkins> Python feels consistent and makes sense (to me)
[10:41] <diplo> I'm just getting into python in a bigger way, never touched ruby, watched a few vids on it and that's about it
[10:41] <awilkins> Ruby seems to be this big conflicting ball of styles and doesn't make intuitive sense
[10:41] <awilkins> Like - all things in Ruby are objects. Even integers.
[10:42] <awilkins> The id values for integers in Ruby... are not the integers they represent.
[10:42] <awilkins> >-<
[10:42] <awilkins> And all manner of weird operators and stuff
[10:43] <diplo> heh, sounds like I'll be having some fun then(not)
[10:43] <awilkins> To familiarize self, did the "Ruby Koans"
[10:43] <diplo> Biggest thing for me, is whether I can import data from our current tracker into redmine in some way
[10:44] <awilkins> diplo, What's current tracker?
[10:44] <awilkins> I have some code that works OK for bugzilla
[10:44] <directhex> redmine is fine, but because it's ruby it's hyper-fragile as far as version numbers go (making distro upgrades hell) and you can't export data between redmine installs easily
[10:44] <diplo> In house built one awilkins, it's really really really bad :)
[10:44] <awilkins> Yeah, that's the other thing I hate about Ruby
[10:45] <awilkins> Debian hates things that have their own package management
[10:45] <awilkins> But Debian coverage of Ruby packages is really patchy
[10:45] <mgdm> The thing I mostly dislike about ruby is that version 1.9.3pN can have a vastly different set of bugs from 1.9.3pN+1
[10:45] <awilkins> Most of the stuff in Ondrej Sury's PPA is ruby packages
[10:46] <directhex> awilkins, that's a ruby design issue, and it's intentional
[10:46] <directhex> awilkins, ruby is not from a school of thought that says a sysadmin installs a thing and it works for years. it's from the "devops" school of thought there a developer managed to make a thing work on his crufty laptop, so you put the crufty laptop into production
[10:46] <directhex> ruby was nearly pulled from debian.
[10:47] <mgdm> Oh, I didn't know that
[10:47] <MartijnVdS> because of the gem madness?
[10:47] <awilkins> Yeah, gem madness is horrid
[10:47] <MartijnVdS> it's a bit like egg madness..
[10:47] <MartijnVdS> (or CPAN madness)
[10:47] <awilkins> My redmine_backlogs install procedure involves installing gems.. then manually uninstalling one
[10:47] <directhex> like most half-baked languages, the concept of ABI/API stability doesn't exist, and the upstreams don't care about breaking things
[10:47] <MartijnVdS> and s/egg/pypi/
[10:48] <awilkins> And then screwing with the Gemfile.lock
[10:48] <directhex> it doesn't matter, in theory, because it's okay to have 300 different incompatible versions of the same gem, so each app has the only version it works with installed alongside
[10:49] <directhex> debian angers ruby upstreams with its "one version of the lib, fix your freaking app" attitude
[10:49] <MartijnVdS> directhex: like bundling the JVM with your java app!
[10:49] <mgdm> I had an entertaining dependency graph recently where something depended on v2.1 of a lib, but then something else it depended on depended on v3.0 of a lib, and of course they were incompatible
[10:49] <directhex> MartijnVdS, yes. or at least bundling a dozen jars which represent the only tested/working versions of your app's libs
[10:49] <awilkins> I don't mind that too much, but in practise the app maintainers don't have a conservative attitude to version numbers
[10:50] <awilkins> e.g. redmine_backlogs doesn't say "we've only tested up to this version of rake, so we'll stick with versions we've tested"
[10:50] <awilkins> It says "want rake". Rake 1.5.2 breaks it.
[10:50] <awilkins> Well, breaks something
[10:50] <directhex> 1.5.1 is fine?
[10:50] <awilkins> Not sure.
[10:51] <awilkins> Had rake from Ondrej's packages already
[10:51] <directhex> minor version numbers should never break anything
[10:51] <awilkins> So just uninstalled the one that gem installas
[10:51] <awilkins> Everything works fine, you just have to tinker with the bundle manifest it builds so it's not convinced it should still have rake 1.5.2
[10:51] <awilkins> Which is Evil and Wrong but practical
[10:53] <diplo> heh, you guys are talking me out of using this :D
[10:53] <awilkins> That's for a non-packaged plugin
[10:53] <awilkins> INstalled by checking out a git tree
[10:54] <awilkins> Only a problem if you sign up for it
[10:54] <diplo> So stay clean install as much as possible and it should just work ?
[10:55] <awilkins> Well, as you get from my install procedure, it's not just "apt-get install" and go, but the current PPA is pretty stable
[10:56] <awilkins> And I always test new things in a VM
[10:56] <awilkins> Snapshot the live DB to it and make sure there are no wrinkles at least twice
[10:56] <awilkins> Write a wiki page as I go
[11:08] <BigRedS> directhex: that doesn't hold in the land of the ruby
[11:09] <directhex> BigRedS, i know. 1.9 -> 1.9.1 was a huge jump which broke the world
[11:12] <MartijnVdS> yay minor version bumps
[11:13] <bigcalm> I think somebody missed the point of minor version numbers
[11:14] <MartijnVdS> bigcalm: the point of a point release!
[11:14] <christel> i am going on the watercress line tomorrow bigcalm!
[11:14] <MartijnVdS> (isitfriday.net)
[11:15] <christel> ... with my son... to meet peppa pig :/
[11:15] <bigcalm> chrisccoulson: :O lucky lady!
[11:15] <davmor2> christel: not that same a rat then?
[11:15] <bigcalm> christel: get Peppa Pig drunk
[11:15] <mgdm> hahaha
[11:15] <christel> davmor2: indeed not! :P
[11:16] <davmor2> bigcalm: is that not then a ratty train
[11:16] <christel> besides the RAT and the dining train they do peppa pig events and thomas the tank engine events!
[11:16] <christel> and apparently peppa pig is awesome so we must go...
[11:21] <directhex> peppa pig is a big old for my son
[11:21] <directhex> we're still on cbeebies shows
[11:21] <directhex> like the lingo show!
[11:22] <MartijnVdS> directhex: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lingo_(Dutch_game_show)
[11:23] <directhex> http://www.bbc.co.uk/cbeebies/lingo-show/songs/lingo-show-blodwen-hello/
[11:23] <MartijnVdS> Oh no!
[11:23] <MartijnVdS> You can't see this content.
[11:33] <awilkins> Poxy geographic location sillyness
[11:34] <awilkins> Does content cost more when you share it around? No. Imagine if America had a federal TV agency like the BBC...
[11:34] <awilkins> Given they have 6 times the population
[11:34] <awilkins> That would be 6 times as much awesome content ...
[11:35] <awilkins> (and 6 times as much reality TV rubbish, but hey)
[11:35] <directhex> they already have amazing shows like Here Comes Honey Boo Boo
[11:36] <directhex> and we have BAFTA-award winning shows from private companies here, like Made In Chelsea!
[11:36] <directhex> (kill me now)
[11:37] <awilkins> The commercial broadcasters have to raise their game in the UK because of the BBC though
[11:37] <awilkins> If you got rid of it, EVERYTHING would be Honey Boo Boo
[11:37] <awilkins> I've seen American TV. It's a scary place.
[11:37] <awilkins> Although I like the whole IP broadcasters making their own content trend
[11:38] <awilkins> Not sure about Arrested Development but I liked their take on House of Cards. Wish they would show the other 2 series of the UK one though.
[12:13] <Myrtti> UK benefits so much from having a public broadcasting company that a) broadcasts to a big domestic audience b) broadcasts in languages widely adopted in the world c) has great personalities and professionals doing the said broadcasts
[12:13]  * Myrtti pokes Finnish YLE with a stick
[12:17] <popey> https://jira.mongodb.org/browse/PYTHON-532 reads like something ali1234 might write ☻
[12:19] <diplo> labels = incompetence :) and ref ali, wouldn't be that many lol's in there ?
[12:19] <diplo> :)
[13:56] <redtape|renegade> OT | then there's the afternoons ..
[15:00] <redtape|renegade> ~I've had a talk with the locals on I.o.Man and *they* don't think Bug #1 should be closed | and the instigator 'lives here' | because you can't buy an Ubuntu computer laptop or desktop anywhere locally. Only a chromebook at around £250 .. infact most of them think this mobile thing is the wrong way to go as you can't do much programming on a mobile. The Ubuntu-ists are revolting...
[15:01] <diddledan> tell them to shower then :-p
[15:02] <popey> they are?
[15:02] <popey> seems to me its the peanut gallery that's revolting
[15:02] <redtape|renegade> ~ Wat together.. this ain't rugby.
[15:07] <redtape|renegade> Prob.ly just down to the fact Curry's (which has put 2 shops so far , outta business) , run  by the Retail-Mafia : have no idea what Ubuntu is !! .. go on give them a call .. http://t.co/v5yt7TUlnn ::: Rant -over.
[15:09] <mungbean> :-|
[15:12]  * popey shrugs
[15:12] <popey> this is hardly news, that you can't buy a pc running ubuntu in a shop
[15:12] <redtape|renegade> nationally ?
[15:12] <popey> also note the mobile strategy Ubuntu has is in addition to desktop
[15:12] <popey> not instead of
[15:13] <popey> internationally
[15:13] <popey> there's hundreds of stores in which you _can_ buy Ubuntu laptops
[15:13] <popey> but they're not in the countries where the noisiest complaints come from
[15:13] <popey> (Europe and USA)
[15:14] <dwatkins> So you want us to call up Curry's for £1 a minute to tell them that they don't know what something is that they don't know about, redtape|renegade?
[15:14] <czajkowski> You cna buy one from dell.ie
[15:15] <redtape|renegade> dwatkins: I've already done it .. They haven't a clue what Ubuntu is ..
[15:15] <dwatkins> redtape|renegade: and this surprises you why? ;)
[15:16]  * redtape|renegade does his daily email check to see what can be bought ethically running 'Ubuntu' on the net ..
[15:16] <DJones> The best publicity is word of mouth, Ubuntu and Linux generally have great support networks and word of mouth does work, retail stores are there to make a profit, so for them, any Linux derivative doesn't make sense
[15:16] <dwatkins> also, they probably get kickbacks for selling Windows
[15:16] <redtape|renegade> dwatkins: Because the bug says that you can buy it in a local shop .. or at least that's how I read it ...
[15:16] <dwatkins> redtape|renegade: bug #1 ?
[15:17] <DJones> I wonder why bug 1 is flagged as Malaysia Loci team
[15:17] <popey> where does it say that redtape|renegade ?
[15:17] <DJones> loco*
[15:17] <popey> just the first one lp api picks
[15:17] <popey> it's tagged as affecting lots of projects
[15:17] <DJones> Good answer
[15:17] <diddledan> what's a direct-lit lcd panel?
[15:18] <DJones> I thought it was because we use lubotu* rather than Ubottu
[15:18] <diddledan> argos just emailed me and they're touting "Direct-lit LED TV"
[15:19] <DJones> diddledan: http://www.avforums.com/forums/lcd-led-lcd-tvs/1000565-difference-side-lit-led-versus-direct-led-pay-attention-when-buying.html
[15:19] <diddledan> thanks DJones
[15:20] <DJones> Sounds like the positioning of the LED's, direct is behind the screen, side lit is around the edges
[15:20] <redtape|renegade> Those running Ubuntu :-Laptops: 187 laptops , Desktops: 193 desktops, as opposed to those running windoze .. 42,598  ... there's the math anyway ..
[15:20] <mungbean> bore
[15:22] <diddledan> redtape|renegade: where are those figures from?
[15:22] <diddledan> I wonder if there's really that many windows machines worldwide
[15:23] <redtape|renegade> ebay.co.uk
[15:23] <mungbean> lol
[15:23] <redtape|renegade> i could use ebay.im , but that costs £90K  .. reesign.
[15:24] <popey> people seem to be misinterpreting that bug completely.
[15:24] <popey> mainly because it means different things to different people
[15:24] <popey> so closing it has wildly different meanings
[15:24] <DJones> Its not surprising, to the end user, windows is distributed free for people buying a computer, probably 999/1000 users will stick with whats already there
[15:24] <redtape|renegade> I'll justget my coat ...
[15:25] <popey> oh jeez
[15:25] <diddledan> well that's an overreaction
[15:25] <DJones> Damm, Davros with David Tennant still looks the same as he did in the 1970's
[15:25] <diddledan> DJones: he hasn't aged well then? :-p
[15:25] <popey> he ragequits all the time
[15:25] <popey> it's incredibly tiresome
[15:26] <DJones> diddledan: That would be about right
[15:26] <mungbean> politics is dull innit
[15:26] <popey> given he wanted me to change the /topic and talk about it all day, then when we do he quits, pretty stupid
[15:28] <xnox> popey: so the wimesweeper - how do I run it on my nexus7? do I need raring or saucy install?
[15:28] <mungbean> there's always reddit to discuss that stuff
[15:28] <mungbean> !politics
[15:28] <mungbean> lol
[15:28] <mungbean> we need a OSS-politics
[15:30] <popey> xnox: raring
[15:30] <xnox> popey: ack.
[15:30] <popey> add the ppa and it's minesweeper-touch
[15:30] <popey> or just install touch-collection to get them all
[15:30] <popey> see http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~popey/+junk/phablet-flash-wrapper/view/head:/add_apps.sh
[15:59] <redtape|renegade> popey, I know I was wrong but I'm still grumpy that I can't buy an Ubuntu desktop here :: https://pod.orkz.net/uploads/images/scaled_full_b98535f1d2a396706e91.jpg
[15:59] <czajkowski> does he just join make a comment and leave?
[15:59] <popey> frequently
[16:00] <czajkowski> wow
[16:05] <tripleclones> Hi can anyone help with a blank screen on boot? close and open lid resolves it
[16:05] <tripleclones> 13.04 on Lenovo X60 with intel 945
[16:06] <tripleclones> only thing I have found is a kernel 3.9 but isn't from ubuntu repo so don't really want to go with it yet
[16:07] <popey> it's fixed in 3.9?
[16:08] <tripleclones> assuming so reading this
[16:08] <tripleclones> http://askubuntu.com/questions/291023/black-screen-after-update-to-13-04-hp-530-solution-available
[16:08] <popey> oof, i wouldn't install a kernel from that site either
[16:09] <tripleclones> thats what I was thinking
[16:09] <popey> http://kernel.ubuntu.com/~kernel-ppa/mainline/v3.9-raring/ however is safe
[16:09] <popey> maintained by the kernel team
[16:09] <tripleclones> brilliant thank you - I'll try it :)
[16:09] <popey> worth a punt to see if that fixes it, if it does then I'd file a bug against the kernel with "ubuntu-bug linux" and then let them know which kernel works and which doesn't
[16:09] <popey> and then you can figure out which commit actually broke it
[16:09] <popey> and they may be able to backport a fix to 3.8
[16:10] <shauno> wow, those askubuntu answers are all kinds of scary.  "here, grab a kernel from someone's dropbox" is nope.jpg
[16:13] <popey> that file isnt even there
[16:13] <popey> haha, its a shell script
[16:13] <popey> which pulls from....
[16:14] <popey> http://kernel.ubuntu.com/~kernel-ppa/mainline/v3.9-raring/
[16:14] <diddledan> yeah
[16:14] <popey> ☻
[16:15] <diddledan> FRIDAY FTW
[16:15] <diddledan> ahem
[16:15] <diddledan> scuse me
[16:16] <diddledan> don't you dare tell me I'm on the wrong day
[16:16] <brobostigon> its saturday, sorry man.
[16:16] <directhex> gotta get down on friday.
[16:16] <directhex> it's the law.
[16:17] <diddledan> according to beccy black, anyway
[16:17] <diddledan> just in case anybody forgot: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kfVsfOSbJY0
[16:18] <diddledan> and now I switch to my home pc
[16:28] <tripleclones> popey that fixed it - is there how to filing bugs I can read somewhere?
[16:29] <diddledan> tripleclones: run in a terminal the command `ubuntu-bug linux`
[16:29] <tripleclones> cool - been using ubuntu 5.04 and haven't had to report one before
[16:29] <MartijnVdS> To quote Neo: "Whoa"
[16:29] <MartijnVdS> http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2013/05/asus-brings-4k-to-your-desktop-with-massive-31-5-3840x2160-monitor/
[16:29] <tripleclones> using ubuntu since 5.04!
[16:30] <MartijnVdS> tripleclones: 5.06, the second "hog" release ;)
[16:30] <diddledan> that will collect a load of information relevant to the package "linux" and post it all to launchpad.net for you - it will open a new browser for you to add some information about why you're reporting the bug
[16:30] <MartijnVdS> tripleclones: (hoary hedgehog?)
[16:31] <tripleclones> MartijnVds I still have the shipit CD - is it worth anything ;)
[16:31] <MartijnVdS> tripleclones: ask AlanBell, he uses them for his chickens :)
[16:31] <diddledan> he feeds chickens old linux cds?
[16:31] <MartijnVdS> diddledan: I think so.. but I'm no chicken expert
[16:32] <tripleclones> I guess I've just been lucky always running older hardware
[16:32]  * MartijnVdS is waiting for Haswell
[16:32] <MartijnVdS> Should be out by next week
[16:32] <tripleclones> but that changes soon - got a lenovo X1 coming, will be fun getting ubuntu on that
[16:35] <diddledan> haswell is the new intel?
[16:35]  * diddledan googles
[16:35] <MartijnVdS> diddledan: it is
[16:37] <diddledan> looks like they're unifying under one aarchitecture for end-to-end?
[16:37] <diddledan> from 10W up to desktop
[16:37] <diddledan> desktop I guess is 100's of WAtts
[16:37] <MartijnVdS> diddledan: they still have atoms
[16:37] <diddledan> aah
[16:37] <MartijnVdS> desktop "TDP" (thermal design power) is 85W or something
[16:38] <MartijnVdS> laptop TDP is a lot lower, and they have better sleep states now
[16:38] <MartijnVdS> and they're expecting "Haswell-E" later this year ("extreme edition" with even more power)
[16:48] <tripleclones> Bug 59161 my first known reported bug :)
[16:49] <tripleclones> thats in bugzilla.kernel.org though
[17:06] <awilkins> ☄☭☮⚗⚝
[17:13] <MartijnVdS> awilkins: happy unicode :)
[18:57] <diddledan> why did I just sit through an _entire_ episode of eastenders?!
[18:58] <brobostigon> oh dear.
[18:58] <brobostigon> diddledan: are you drunk?
[18:58] <diddledan> I wish
[18:58] <diddledan> my sky box is on the blink tho
[18:58] <brobostigon> :(
[18:58] <diddledan> they are supposed to have fixed it
[18:59] <brobostigon> two only valid excuses for watching eastenders, either being high or drunk, or GF/wife is being very insistant.
[19:04] <MartijnVdS> brobostigon: or you were channel surfing, and got distracted by something else
[19:04] <MartijnVdS> brobostigon: and Eastenders came on while you were away
[19:04] <brobostigon> MartijnVdS: yes, or that.
[19:09] <popey> or of course your BF/husband is being very insistant
[19:09] <MartijnVdS> popey: let's use "SO"
[19:09] <MartijnVdS> that's a lot shorter than "GF/BF/wife/husband"
[19:09] <popey> I don't particularly like SO
[19:09] <popey> well, true
[19:10] <popey> "bird"
[19:10] <diddledan> "bi**h"?
[19:10] <diddledan> that works for either sex
[19:10] <MartijnVdS> diddledan: birð
[19:10] <popey> I call wifey "bird" and she calls referrs to me as "the bird" when talking to her girlie mates
[19:11] <popey> my brother watches eastenders, his husband does not
[19:11] <popey> i think hubby plays games on facebook while ee is on
[19:11] <diddledan> :-)
[19:11] <diddledan> the problem is I could easily become addicted to ee
[19:12] <popey> yeah
[19:14] <MartijnVdS> Ooh.. overclocking competition (+ master class) where you can win Haswell hardware
[19:14] <MartijnVdS> *enters competition*
[19:14] <popey> nice idea
[19:14] <MartijnVdS> .. at least I have something to do on Sunday
[19:17] <mungbean> eastenders is depression in visual/aural form
[19:17] <popey> hah
[19:18] <mungbean> see enough depressing chavs and unpleasant violent/agreesive people on my daily commute, why would i invite them into my lounge?
[19:19] <mungbean> just realised my tv box is full because of all the shaun the sheep episodes
[19:19] <MartijnVdS> heh :)
[19:20] <mungbean> childs folder 60GB, wifes folder 100gb, me 20GB
[19:20] <mungbean> although 35gb of the wifes is dr who
[19:20] <MartijnVdS> \o/ Doctor
[19:21] <mungbean> there seems to be a tom baker series in there too
[19:21] <MartijnVdS> old Who? they're rerunning those?
[19:21] <mungbean> hand of fear
[19:21] <mungbean> i think they played it when someone died
[19:21] <mungbean> sarah jane
[19:21] <MartijnVdS> ah, that's been a while
[19:23] <diddledan> wasn't she spider man's missus, too?
[19:24] <mungbean> mary jane
[19:24] <diddledan> aah
[19:24] <mungbean> which is also a drug slang too
[19:24] <diddledan> for?
[19:24] <mungbean> cocaine
[19:24] <diddledan> (I need to know these drug terms for when I try to "score" (that's the right term, yes?))
[19:25] <mungbean> only if you're in a 70s US movie
[19:25] <MartijnVdS> mungbean: marihuana ("Mari Huana" -> mary jane)
[19:25] <MartijnVdS> mungbean: i.e. weed
[19:25] <mungbean> woops
[19:25] <mungbean> ur right
[19:25] <MartijnVdS> <- Dutch :P
[19:25] <mungbean> i never bothered to find out
[19:26] <diddledan> does being dutch give you a propensity to knowing these things?
[19:26] <mungbean> the internet is too easy to find things now. i preferred when childhoods were full of misinformation
[19:26] <brobostigon> mungbean: like girls having cooties ?
[19:26] <diddledan> encyclopedia dramatica
[19:26] <diddledan> full of plenty of misinformation
[19:26] <brobostigon> yes.
[19:27] <MartijnVdS> diddledan: well, people come here to buy the stuff
[19:27] <MartijnVdS> diddledan: Never used it myself, but the Netherlands has a reputation
[19:27] <shauno> don't be silly, we come for the .. err .. rijksmuseum .. and .. uhm .. tulips?
[19:29] <mungbean> i never even tried a cigarette
[19:29] <mungbean> seems illogical to me
[19:30] <MartijnVdS> mungbean: neither have I.. my parents smoke (my dad finally quit a few years ago) and that made me never want to try it
[19:30] <mungbean> my reason was simply that peer pressure doesn't work that way on me
[19:31] <MartijnVdS> that helped too
[19:31] <MartijnVdS> also, not having lots of peers to pressure me :(
[19:31] <mungbean> awww
[19:31] <MartijnVdS> mungbean: I got better ;)
[19:31] <mungbean> are you INTJ ?
[19:31] <mungbean> myers briggs personality type
[19:32] <MartijnVdS> mungbean: last time I checked, yes.. with the J being close to P in some tests
[19:32] <mungbean> relatively rare in outside world, high in IT and irc :P
[19:33] <MartijnVdS> IRCJ 8-)
[19:33] <mungbean> the peer pressure thing gives it away
[19:33] <mungbean> never persuaded to do something u don't wanan do
[19:34] <shauno> baffled with this one.  irssi just keeps freezing.  ssh is still up fine because I screen is responsive, but irssi isn't.  where do I even start?
[19:34] <mungbean> try weechat?
[19:34] <MartijnVdS> shauno: Ctrl+Q :)
[19:34] <MartijnVdS> shauno: vs Ctrl+S (xon/xoff)
[19:34] <mungbean> i've had irssi freeze about 3 times in 6 months
[19:35] <mungbean> how often does it freeze?
[19:35] <shauno> fairly sure I'm not hitting ^S to stop it
[19:35] <MartijnVdS> shauno: Ctrl+A s ?
[19:35] <MartijnVdS> :)
[19:36] <MartijnVdS> (or whatever your screen escape key is)
[19:36] <shauno> at the moment, it'll unstick for 10-15 seconds, and then go back to being unresponsive for a minute or two
[19:36] <MartijnVdS> shauno: anything in top? iotop?
[19:36] <MartijnVdS> shauno: strace?
[19:37] <diddledan> shauno: you need a dedicated server - your host is being battered by someone n0rty
[19:37] <diddledan> vps ftl
[19:37] <MartijnVdS> diddledan: my VPS works fine though
[19:37] <MartijnVdS> diddledan: no weird hangs
[19:37] <MartijnVdS> diddledan: Bytemark BigV++
[19:38] <diddledan> MartijnVdS: all your fellow residents are friendly :-p
[19:38] <mungbean> which distro?
[19:38] <MartijnVdS> mungbean: Ubuntu?
[19:39] <mungbean> how bout shauno ?
[19:39] <shauno> hm, next to nothing  (and iotop installed with no hesitation, so I'm not hanging on writes)
[19:39] <shauno> oh, and tried ^Q, no budge
[19:39] <shauno> 10.04
[19:39] <MartijnVdS> shauno: strace?
[19:39] <mungbean> worth trying weechat for similar issues then
[19:39] <MartijnVdS> Y U NO 12.04?
[19:41] <MartijnVdS> Overclockers are weird.. there's a group of "Underclockers" as well:
[19:41] <mungbean> for power saving?
[19:41] <diddledan> wtf?
[19:41] <MartijnVdS> "7.07MHz on Intel Pentium Overdrive"
[19:41] <MartijnVdS> http://www.teamgroup.com.tw/catalog/detail/data/en/29/750/pkshJp.html
[19:42] <mungbean> for the lol? or practical reason
[19:42] <MartijnVdS> mungbean: mostly for the LOL, I think
[19:42] <MartijnVdS> http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/forum/173809-28-running-windows
[19:42] <mungbean> http://img.chan4chan.com/img/2009-02-16/1234759607134.jpg
[19:43] <shauno> because I'm lazy, and still haven't decided if I want to retreat to debian
[19:43] <shauno> hmm, strace is looking interesting
[19:43] <MartijnVdS> shauno: what's it doing?
[19:43] <mungbean> probably runs like my eee pc
[19:44] <shauno> I think it's the script that forwards notifications to my desktop :/  there's a connect to the right IP, a write, and then a read(30,<big pause>
[19:45] <mungbean> which script are you using for that?
[19:45] <mungbean> i was gonna try it
[19:45] <mungbean> sending remote osd?
[19:45] <shauno> prowl .. same idea, but sending to growl (laptop's a mac)
[19:45] <mungbean> ah
[19:45] <MartijnVdS> firewallz?
[19:45] <mungbean> different one
[19:46] <MartijnVdS> you could do it through an ssh tunnel. If the tunnel is down, you'll at least get a quick response (Connection refused/reset by peer)
[19:47] <mungbean> was thinking of this https://code.google.com/p/irssi-libnotify/
[19:49] <shauno> well that's annoying .. it's been working for a year or three :/
[19:52] <shauno> but explains why it was driving me crazy.  the more people reply to me, the less responsive irssi was
[19:53] <mungbean> watching the extreme barbie jeep racing vid
[19:53] <mungbean> reminds me of uni days
[19:53] <mungbean> riding a traffic cone down a fligt of stairs
[19:58] <diddledan> shauno:
[19:58] <mungbean> first day to myself tomorrow since baby was born \o/
[19:58] <diddledan> shauno:
[19:58] <diddledan> :-p
[19:58] <diddledan> mungbean: what's the plan?
[19:58] <mungbean> its gonna be sunny but i will be indoors doing airbrushing
[19:58] <shauno> sleep?
[19:58] <diddledan> no, sleep is for when you're in charge of the baby
[19:59] <mungbean> got a spitfire and p51d mustang to get on with
[19:59] <diddledan> just let it cry to sleep
[19:59] <mungbean> she is cryingf now
[19:59] <mungbean> will wake wifey upo
[19:59] <diddledan> bless
[19:59] <mungbean> need toi walk around a bit
[20:00] <mungbean> i cant trick baby into thinking i am walking
[20:01] <popey> i use the android irssi notify thing
[20:01] <popey> works brilliantly
[20:02] <DJones> popey: Do you get errors if your don't have an active screen session connected to irssi
[20:03] <popey> dunno, i never dont have an active screen/irssi connection
[20:03] <DJones> Hmmh, when I disconnect from screen, irssinotifier will give me errors on the android device
[20:05] <popey> i dont get that
[20:06] <DJones> Not too worried about it, if I'm not connected, I'm not in a position to do anything that hilight's me anyway
[20:09] <mungbean> sampling a vockburns fine tawny
[20:09] <mungbean> vo/co
[20:11] <popey> i discovered Pedro Ximénez in spain where Port isn't popular
[20:12] <diddledan> ok, as a learned person (sorta) who understands that the chances of winning something like the lottery are worse than that of dieing horribly. why do I still insist on playing the thing?
[20:14] <DJones> diddledan: Fear.... The fear of your numbers coming up when you haven't put the money on
[20:14] <diddledan> :-)
[20:16] <mungbean> excepyt you could play for a million years and still might not come up
[20:17] <mungbean> the odds are too low to fathom, compared with the "but somebody wins"
[20:24] <diddledan> wait, what?! facebook is advertising at me (not new) the advert "ugly females inside: we have alot of females desperate to get a date. but they're not pretty. join now."
[20:26] <shauno> it can be quite worrying how well fb knows you
[20:44] <diddledan> right. gmail. spotify just emailed me and in the subject line in my inbox view on gmail it had a button to go straight to spotify's web player to play the music it was advertising at me. how did they get that button there?
[20:45] <mungbean> my dog just farted and looked innicently at me
[20:46] <mungbean> diddledan: screenshot
[20:46] <mungbean> ?
[20:57] <mungbean> laptop for mum in law, how many gb ram?
[20:57] <mungbean> new ones are win8 :(
[20:58] <diddledan> mungbean: https://plus.google.com/u/0/111403714821787277067/posts/TTXiWqFuu8J
[20:58] <mungbean> should i do win7 or keep win8 till 8.1
[20:59] <mungbean> i see
[21:02] <diddledan> the text/plain part of the message is "missing text version" in base64 encoding
[21:02] <diddledan> so it ain't that
[21:02] <AlanBell> what do people use for web applications with a mongodb back end?
[21:10] <diddledan> looks like there's some meta tags in the html mail that might do it
[21:32] <diddledan> http://gmailblog.blogspot.co.uk/2013/05/take-action-right-from-inbox.html
[22:11] <Jez> Hello.
[22:12] <Jez> Ubuntu does not seem to shut down or restart on my system (Acer TravelMate 5520).  No splash screen or anything, just goes to the boot screen and then sits there ticking away forever.
[22:14] <Jez> The halt splash used to appear, then seemed to hang for ages.
[22:14] <Jez>  To my knowledge, it shut down from there once, while I'd wandered off for a quarter hour.
[22:14] <Jez> But after the first week it stopped, now all I get is the boot screen and no shut down.
[22:15] <Jez> Can anyone offer any advice?
[22:51] <iPenguin> Hello
[22:53] <iPenguin> I somehow keep getting errors when i boot ubuntu on my laptop
[22:54] <iPenguin> The error says "This kernel requires an x86-64 CPU, but only detected an i686 CPU. Unable to boot- please use a kernel appropiate for your CPU." Can anyone tell me what this means?
[22:54] <iPenguin> Will i need to download x32bit?
[23:20] <diddledan> I would have answered but they were too impatient
[23:21] <diddledan> people ought to use gentoo for a while just to learn the art of waiting
[23:55] <diddledan> have global spam levels dropped in the past 6 months or is it just that I've not been very prolific over giving out my email address of late?