[04:45] <pitti> Good morning
[05:22] <shadeslayer> morning pitti :)
[07:03] <jibel> good morning
[07:12] <DanChapman> morning jibel
[07:23] <jibel> Hey DanChapman
[12:57] <asac> hi mmrazik
[12:57] <asac> 14:53 < asac> mmrazik: hello
[12:57] <asac> 14:54 < asac> mmrazik: tried to figure if there is an easy way to reuse your upstream CI testrs for our daily image testing
[12:57] <asac> 14:54 < asac> mmrazik: any idea if you could provide a wrapper that gives me something like:
[12:57] <mmrazik> hello
[12:57] <asac> 14:54 < asac> autopilot list-stacks
[12:57] <asac> 14:54 < asac> autopilot list-suites STACK1
[12:57] <asac> 14:54 < asac> autopilot run-suite SUITE1 && echo success
[12:58] <mmrazik> asac: regarding the autopilot "list-stacks" -- would that really help? You would still need to to have a list of "packages" you are intersted in
[12:58] <mmrazik> and if you have such list then it is usually just autopilot run $package
[12:58] <asac> ok
[12:58] <asac> wait :)
[12:58] <asac> autopilot list-stacks
[12:58] <asac> autopilot install-stack-deps STACK1
[12:58] <asac> autopilot list-suites
[12:58] <asac> etc.
[12:58] <mmrazik> asac: so what the first command returns?
[12:59] <mmrazik> i.e. list-stacks
[12:59] <asac> oh ... that might be different
[12:59] <asac> all i want is getting a list of all i can run
[12:59] <asac> thought it was grouped by stacks because of:
[12:59] <asac> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~cupstream2distro-maintainers/cupstream2distro-config/trunk/view/head:/stacks/head/phone.cfg
[12:59] <mmrazik> oh
[12:59] <asac> for example
[12:59]  * mmrazik is thinking
[12:59] <asac> so ultiamtely, i dont care ... autopilot list-packages and autopilot install-deps PACKAGE and autopilot run
[13:00] <asac> would certainly do the trick as well :)
[13:00] <mmrazik> asac: we probably can create a simple script on top of cupstream2distro-config which would search your apt cache and look for everything -autopilot
[13:01] <mmrazik> its probably not so much for autopilot
[13:01] <mmrazik> autopilot is just a tool for running the tests. How you group them or if you package them is a bit unrelated task
[13:02] <mmrazik> asac: btw. when it comes to daily testing -- I asked om26er (who is in touch with paul larson) to make sure all the upstream tests are running daily on the devices
[13:02] <mmrazik> unfortunately we need paul (who seems to be sick) as the upstream jenkins doesn't have any devices hooked up
[13:03] <asac> mmrazik: wait... i want all daily images testsing (images produced on cdimage.ubuntu.com) to run on the same place
[13:03] <asac> or at least feed into the same dashboard
[13:03] <asac> using the same inputs
[13:03] <asac> i believe we need to get this bulk integrated into reports.qa.ubuntu.com
[13:03] <mmrazik> sure
[13:03] <mmrazik> thats why we are not starting this on the upstream jenkins
[13:04] <asac> right
[13:04] <mmrazik> and ack on reports.qa.ubuntu.com
[13:04] <asac> so i have more "custom testsuites" that are not easy to map into runlists (e.g. utah) stuff
[13:04] <asac> so i am trying to push for a simple bulk import API...
[13:05] <asac> currently i hoped i could tell them to just run command X and get a list of commands that will then be test suites and i can get a simple report giving me a fail or success for each test suite
[13:05] <asac> with a log that i can then use to go deeper
[13:05] <asac> so i am looking how to do that best for autopilot tests
[13:05] <asac> :)
[13:06] <asac> so i guess all it would take would be a canonical place where we maintain the list of autopilot packages
[13:06] <asac> and then i could just do apt-get install autopilot-package
[13:06] <asac> and autopilot run $autopilot_package
[13:06] <asac> ack?
[13:06] <mmrazik> asac: yup. Either a database (canonical place with the list) or some heuristics (looking for packages like "^.*-autopilot$")
[13:06] <mmrazik> asac: yes
[13:06] <mmrazik> asac: in general we pacakge the tests in $packagename-autopilot
[13:07] <mmrazik> and then you just do s/-/_/g on package_name (bacause autopilot naming) and do "autopilot run $package"
[13:08] <mmrazik> so e.g. apt-get install ubuntu-calc-app && autopilot run ubuntu_calc_app
[13:08] <asac> right
[13:08] <asac> mmrazik: who would be one maintaining a simple list of packages?
[13:08] <asac> i believe its useful anyway to have such list
[13:09] <mmrazik> asac: I just realized the information is already (at least partially) in lp:cupstream2distro-config
[13:10] <mmrazik> asac: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~cupstream2distro-maintainers/cupstream2distro-config/trunk/view/head:/stacks/head/apps.cfg
[13:10] <mmrazik> asac: look for "test_suite"
[13:10] <mmrazik> asac: thats what we append to "autopilot run"
[13:10] <asac> right
[13:10] <mmrazik> asac: the corresponding autopilot package is just ${project_name}-autopilot
[13:10] <asac> but that doesnt give me the package name afaik
[13:10] <asac> ok
[13:10] <asac> really?
[13:10] <asac> also replaceing _ with -
[13:10] <asac> right?
[13:11] <asac> mmrazik: so who would write such a simple warpper :)
[13:11] <mmrazik> asac: nope... the package names can have "-" in the name... its just the python modules where it is not allowed and we need to replace
[13:11] <asac> autopilot list-packages BZR_URL :)
[13:11] <mmrazik> asac: so share-app-autopilot
[13:11] <mmrazik> is the package
[13:11] <mmrazik> I don't like this to be in autopilot TBH
[13:11] <mmrazik> I can write a small wrapper that would be part of lp:cupstream2distro-config
[13:12] <mmrazik> as its manipulating the information there anyway
[14:44] <stgraber> knome, balloons: RT ticket opened for the CSS update
[14:46] <balloons> stgraber, ty :-)
[15:12] <stgraber> knome, balloons: change has been rolled out to production.
[15:12]  * balloons looks
[15:13] <balloons> first glance looks good :-)
[17:00] <SergioMeneses> hi everybody!
[17:14] <balloons> howdy SergioMeneses
[17:25] <knome> stgraber, \o/
[17:26] <phillw> balloons: can you have a look at what time you can run the session so far allocated to you, thanks. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Activities/Classroom/Saucy
[17:26] <phillw> SergioMeneses: ditto for you and the laptop team, please :D
[17:44] <SergioMeneses> balloons, phillw \o
[17:44] <SergioMeneses> sorry I was having lunch
[17:45] <phillw> SergioMeneses: food is always good :D
[17:45] <SergioMeneses> I'll send email about our (laptop) session, I dont know if I can do it because of work but I think Carla or Prime can
[17:45] <SergioMeneses> phillw, totally agree :D
[17:48] <phillw> SergioMeneses: thanks, it's scheduled 24th June - 30th June, so it is pretty flexible as to people being able to be tutor(s) UTC is not that important as it would also be nice to have some sessions at 'normal' time for people elsewhere in the world :)
[17:48] <SergioMeneses> phillw, sounds good
[17:49] <phillw> Jonathan is doing the Virtual Box at 02:00 UTC :D
[18:14] <balloons> phillw, I'll try and pencil mine in, yes
[18:18] <phillw> balloons: thanks, the clock is ticking and I've promised 2 weeks warning so it goes out on calendar and UBW so the most people get to know of these.
[18:24] <phillw> s/UBW/Ubuntu weekly News
[18:33] <phillw> also, the ubuntu beginners team :)
[18:39] <SergioMeneses> ok I'll be back soon
[18:52] <phillw> kewel, there has been a section added for following up SRU requests via bug reports :D
[19:10] <balloons> afternoon Letozaf_
[19:10] <balloons> ready for tomorrow? Up for something interesting?
[19:10] <balloons> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-autopilot-tests/+bug/1116774
[19:11] <Letozaf_> balloons, hello ;D
[19:12] <Letozaf_> balloons, I was re-doing the screenshot test
[19:12] <balloons> Letozaf_, ahh
[19:13] <Letozaf_> balloons, but that bug looks interesting :D
[19:14] <Letozaf_> balloons, I must take a better look at it
[19:14] <Letozaf_> balloons, I am re-doing the screenshot test after looking at the  fileroller test and it's working out quit nicely
[19:15] <balloons> Letozaf_, excellent
[19:15] <balloons> nice to have a set of "finished" working testcases isn't it
[19:15] <Letozaf_> balloons, yeah!
[19:16] <Letozaf_> balloons, also screenshot will be finished, there are just a couple of things that do not work but I think we will be able to fix them
[19:16] <Letozaf_> balloons, mmm that bug is bugging me :D
[19:16] <Letozaf_> balloons, looks interesting
[19:18] <balloons> Letozaf_, lol.. sorry..
[19:18] <balloons> but yea, we should be able to finally achieve automated ubiquity installs via the UI :-p
[19:19] <Letozaf_> balloons, great
[19:19] <Letozaf_> balloons, but are you going to work on this tomorrow at the hackfest ?
[19:20] <balloons> Letozaf_, I'm hoping some folks with take this up.. I might not be able to hack on it myself
[19:20] <Letozaf_> balloons, well I will certainly try :)
[19:20] <Letozaf_> balloons, looks fun
[19:20] <balloons> it should be :-)
[19:22] <Letozaf_> balloons, must the live CD be Sacy ?
[19:22] <Letozaf_> sorry Saucy
[19:23] <balloons> Letozaf_, shouldn't matter
[19:25] <Letozaf_> balloons, ok otherwise I would have had to sync the ISO
[19:25] <balloons> ahh.. yea, no worries there
[19:40]  * Letozaf_ had to sync the ISO al the same :(
[19:40] <balloons> did raring fail?
[19:43] <Letozaf_> balloons, no I already had already over written the Raring ISO with Saucy, so I am syncing it to have it updated
[19:43] <balloons> ahh
[19:43] <balloons> lol
[20:02] <balloons> so SergioMeneses chilicuil if your around.. I was talking to phillw about format for the classroom sessions
[20:02] <balloons> let me just copy/paste back what I was saying :-p
[20:03] <balloons> essentially I want to avoid really long session logs or videos of the sessions for people to have to parse
[20:03] <balloons> instead; it would be good to get the instructors to prepare a nice wiki page and add in pics or short videos to help if needed / desired. That way several things can happen
[20:03] <balloons> 1) They can re-use the content for teaching the session again next cycle if needed
[20:04] <balloons> 2) Other folks who can't make it to the session can still get the content and learn :-)
[20:04] <balloons> 3) It should keep sessions short; most should only take 30 mins.. That will help respect people's time and keep things moving (in case of back to back sessions) without losing everyone :-)
[20:05] <balloons> 4) Our wiki area gets more hands-on knowledge and updated content!
[20:06]  * SergioMeneses is back with coffee
[20:07] <SergioMeneses> hi balloons ....omg you writes a lot, take it easy
[20:07] <balloons> SergioMeneses, lol.. coffee should help with that!
[20:07] <balloons> SergioMeneses, how have you been?
[20:08] <balloons> new job, everything going well yes?
[20:08] <SergioMeneses> balloons, the new job is interesting  :) learning a lot and having good time :D
[20:08] <SergioMeneses> but these days is full networking
[20:09] <phillw> SergioMeneses: balloons sorry. I was just discussing the re-format I did on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Activities/Classroom/Saucy to get the initial, basic things people need to know done before we do the more advanced stuff :)
[20:09] <SergioMeneses> abut the classroom-session, it is a good idea. +100
[20:10] <SergioMeneses> phillw, balloons but we might make a guide-line
[20:10] <SergioMeneses> I dont see the problem
[20:10]  * SergioMeneses is working on Audacity testcase
[20:10] <balloons> ok. so how about a simple page for instructors on how to run there session?
[20:11] <balloons> does that work? I'll detail my thoughts and recommendations..
[20:11] <phillw> balloons: I use the link embedded, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom
[20:11] <SergioMeneses> and why do we work on our documentation, making it better?
[20:11] <balloons> phillw, yes.. sorry, I meant not how to run the session, but how to prep for it
[20:12] <SergioMeneses> maybe get new content and add pics
[20:12] <balloons> meaning everything I wrote above about properly ensuring the content is usable and preserved beyond the classroom session
[20:12] <SergioMeneses> but
[20:12] <balloons> Noskcaj, hello
[20:12] <phillw> balloons: chat about it with others who know the subject and are enthusiastic is the *best* way to prepare.
[20:12] <Noskcaj> morning balloons
[20:13] <SergioMeneses> if I have to work on a session about testcases (by instance) mi first reference will be the oficial wikipage https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/ContributingTestcases/
[20:13] <SergioMeneses> why dont make it better?
[20:13] <balloons> phillw, good advice.. Let's just make a small page linked off https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Activities/Classroom/Saucy.. Let me fill it in briefly
[20:13] <SergioMeneses> instead of make another wikis
[20:14] <SergioMeneses> Noskcaj, \o
[20:14] <balloons> SergioMeneses, exactly.. whatever you present, make sure it's in the wiki
[20:14] <balloons> if it's already a part of https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/ContributingTestcases/.. great! If the wiki is missing something, fill it in
[20:14] <balloons> if your talking about something new, well.. make a wiki page for it, link it in properly and then use it :-)
[20:15] <phillw> balloons: but, I cerainly give a HUGE +1 that the tutors ensure the wiki areas of the subjects they have covered are fully updated with the new information and take into account questions asked. Improving wiki pages for such things are really helped by having other people ask questions that is not there on the wiki :)
[20:15] <SergioMeneses> balloons, I'm cant see the point about the new classroom wikis thing
[20:15]  * SergioMeneses is losing something
[20:16] <phillw> SergioMeneses: things change each release, it is important that wiki pages are also updated.
[20:16] <balloons> SergioMeneses, yes.. let's be specific
[20:16] <balloons> Noskcaj, we're talking about how the classroom sessions should run
[20:16] <Noskcaj> ok
[20:16] <phillw> SergioMeneses: balloons I believe there is talk of a new system to register hardware?
[20:17] <SergioMeneses> philipballew, that is perfect but this wikipage https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Activities/Classroom/Saucy will redirect to this wiki (by instance) https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/ContributingTestcases/
[20:17] <balloons> phillw, yes indeed.. if it ever gets up
[20:17] <balloons> SergioMeneses,let's say your talking about contributing a new manual testcase
[20:17] <Noskcaj> on the topic of wiki pages, Testdrive doesn't really have a page. Most screenshots are old too.
[20:18] <balloons> you simply prepare what you want to say, and leverage the wiki as much as possible. Make sure all your instructional detail is documented in the existing pages
[20:18] <phillw> SergioMeneses: please read "This area is for setting up and coordinating classroom sessions, please read Classroomfor details of the classroom sessions. If you either wish to help out on classroom sessions, or want to request a new one, please contact us." :)
[20:18] <balloons> SergioMeneses, therefore odds are you don't need to add much if anything to the existing pages
[20:19] <balloons> now another example is Noskcaj .. The wiki pages for testdrive are old, and in general a bit off. For his session, I'd request he update the wiki page for testdrive.. fix it up and link it in properly. Then just use that for the session
[20:19] <balloons> that way his content is there for everyone -- even if they miss the session
[20:19] <Noskcaj> balloons, ok
[20:20] <SergioMeneses> balloons, it's ok
[20:20] <balloons> so SergioMeneses does that make sense?
[20:21] <phillw> balloons: Found the email!
[20:21] <phillw> I have found a seemingly-relevant wiki page at
[20:21] <phillw>   https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/VirtualBox
[20:21] <phillw> but it is rather old (2009).  Is updating it worth doing?  Having a wiki
[20:21] <phillw> page with some pretty screen captures on it for people to look at during
[20:21] <phillw> a one hour classroom session sounds wise, to me...
[20:21] <phillw> balloons: is that an example of what you mean?
[20:21] <SergioMeneses> balloons, yes! it does
[20:22] <Letozaf_> balloons, :( when I run ./run_ubiquity I get "Ubiquity is already running" and when I run ./autopilot run ubiquity I get "./autopilot: 2: .: Can't open /var/log/installer/autopilot"   :'(
[20:22] <Letozaf_> balloons, I am running Saucy amd64 Desktop live
[20:26] <balloons> Noskcaj, phillw, SergioMeneses https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Activities/Classroom/Instructors
[20:26] <balloons> so I started to try and put what I was trying to say there.. feel free to update
[20:26] <balloons> Letozaf_, ok.. did you boot to the live cd?
[20:26] <SergioMeneses> balloons, perfect
[20:26] <balloons> and did you start ubiquity before executing the commands?
[20:27] <Letozaf_> balloons, yes
[20:27] <Letozaf_> balloons, yes
[20:27] <balloons> ok, don't start ubiquity before executing stuff :-)
[20:27] <balloons> it will be started by the script
[20:28] <Letozaf_> balloons, oh! fine :D
[20:28] <Letozaf_> balloons, :p
[20:28] <Noskcaj> balloons, on a related topic, if you see either of the testdrive devs cn you try and get them to make you a admin for testdrive. both of them are too busy with life stuff this cycle so getting stuff approved is a pain
[20:28] <balloons> phillw, that's a judgement call on updating versus replacing.. in general, redirects if needed are seen as the right way to do it
[20:29] <balloons> Noskcaj, I would encourage you to simply keep committing.. If you keep hacking on it for several months and a backlog starts, they should consider adding yourself / others to the project
[20:29] <balloons> it's obviously up to them.. in the same way, you don't become an admin on ubuntu-manual-tests after 1 commit :-)
[20:30] <Noskcaj> balloons, ok. now i just wait for hoawrd so we can finish kylin. and i'm a manual testcase admin after no commits
[20:30] <balloons> Noskcaj, do keep me informed though.. If your unable to get things in and we're halfway through the cycle, I'll definitely help get things moving
[20:31] <balloons> I don't think it will come to that though
[20:31] <balloons> Noskcaj, you got in because you were grandfathered on the team :-p
[20:31] <Noskcaj> oh yeah. i need to do more towards getting testcases made
[20:31] <balloons> I made the old testcase admins team the owners.. I can remove you though.. haha
[20:32] <balloons> seriously though, you did work on it before it went to launchpad, so that's why
[20:33] <Letozaf_> balloons, ok so now when I run  ./run_ubiquity ubiquity starts, but when I run (in another terminal) ./autopilot run ubiquity I get "sudo: autopilot command not found" do I have to run sudo apt-get install python.autopilot ?
[20:33] <Letozaf_> balloons, sorry python-autopilot
[20:34] <balloons> Letozaf_, I was wondering that myself
[20:34] <balloons> you might need to do so
[20:34] <Letozaf_> balloons, I can try :p
[20:34] <balloons> yes, do it
[20:37] <Letozaf_> balloons, strange sudo apt-get install python-autopilot gives me "E:unable to locate package python-autopilot" is the ppa needed ?
[20:37] <phillw> I've sent a quick email on classrooms the attached file from Jonathan sets out clearly to himself what he is going to cover and will allow a flowing session
[20:38] <balloons> Letozaf_, strange!
[20:38] <balloons> ohh!
[20:38] <balloons> yea, it's not in main
[20:39] <balloons> and by default the livecd only has main turned on
[20:39] <balloons> go to software sources and turn everything on
[20:39] <balloons> update and then you can install
[20:39] <balloons> you'll need the ppa anyway though, for 1.3
[20:39] <balloons> so you could skip that and just use the ppa
[20:39] <Letozaf_> balloons, ok fine thanks
[20:43] <balloons> Letozaf_, feel free to comment on the bug whatever snafus you ran into to run it :-)
[20:43] <Letozaf_> balloons, ok
[20:43] <balloons> snafus is a fun word
[20:46] <balloons> k I think I've said enough on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Activities/Classroom/Instructors
[20:46] <balloons> phillw, thanks for sending the mail
[20:49] <Letozaf_> balloons, http://paste.ubuntu.com/5730633
[20:49] <Letozaf_> balloons, :p
[20:49] <balloons> hmm.. is it a 1.2 test?
[20:50] <Letozaf_> balloons, mmm maybe so I have to unistall autopilot 1.3 and put 1.2 on, right ?
[20:50] <Letozaf_> balloons, let me check
[20:50] <balloons> well, you could do a quick conversion
[20:50] <balloons> should be REALLY simple
[20:51] <balloons> let's look at the testcase
[20:51] <Letozaf_> balloons, :D right! ok :p
[20:53] <phillw> I'm just 'playing' with https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Activities/Classroom/Saucy to have the pre-requisites there, along with updating the instructions to have them! (apt in a browser no longer works).
[20:56] <phillw> balloons: I'm assuming that for Section 3, they will have to have bzr installed and know the basics?
[20:56] <phillw> (manual and automated test cases).
[20:57] <balloons> yes
[21:01] <balloons> Letozaf_, sorry what's the branch?
[21:01] <balloons> I've lost it.. perhaps you got it running already
[21:01] <balloons> just have to swap to the 1.3 style of launching
[21:02] <Letozaf_> balloons, the branch is lp:~xnox/ubiquity/autopilot
[21:02] <Letozaf_> balloons, I think I did something wrong it's not working
[21:03] <balloons> Letozaf_, sadly I can't look at it personally atm
[21:03] <Letozaf_> balloons, I will try again
[21:04] <balloons> ok http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~xnox/ubiquity/autopilot/view/head:/autopilot/ubiquity/tests/test_welcome.py
[21:04] <balloons> this is 1.3 looks like
[21:17] <Letozaf_> balloons, it's getting late, I will look at this tomorrow mean while this is the error I get http://paste.ubuntu.com/5730716 and this is the changes I made http://paste.ubuntu.com/5730721/   probably I'm tired tomorrow I will be fresher to look at it :D
[21:18] <Letozaf_> balloons, night I will surly be back tomorrow for this
[21:23] <phillw> balloons: does https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Activities/Classroom/Saucy/Section3 make sense as per https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Activities/Classroom/Saucy#Section_3
[21:24] <xnox> balloons: running "autopilot" normally will not work.
[21:24] <phillw> I need someone else other than myself to check if what are depended on if further sessions will result in people not having the stuff they need installed!
[21:25] <xnox> balloons: one needs to launch autopilot from a wrapper script in that branch & also launch ubiquity via the other wrapper script.
[21:25] <xnox> balloons: https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~xnox/ubiquity/autopilot/view/head:/autopilot/README
[21:26] <xnox> balloons: Letozaf_ is not idling here
[21:30] <balloons> xnox, ahh. I remember running autopilot from the branch, but that didn't seem to work
[21:30] <balloons> yea, she's off.. We're doing our hackfest tomorrow, so this was just bonus in advance of that
[21:30] <balloons> I'll really be digging in and looking at it then.. We should have a working testcase by the end of the day
[21:31] <balloons> we start early, 1200 UTC, so you should be around :-)
[21:32] <balloons> phillw, I think that's covering things nicely
[21:32] <balloons> sanity check looks ok to me too :-)
[21:33] <balloons> xnox, so to confirm though, you made autopilot changes that need to merge with autopilot upstream correct?
[21:33] <phillw> I'll go ask the classroom team then! They are very good letting me know if I have missed a step out!
[21:36] <xnox> balloons: no.
[21:37] <xnox> balloons: there is integration required between ubiquity & autopilot. Both need to be run as root with exactly the same DBUS environmental variables.
[21:37] <xnox> balloons: thus the two wrapper scripts. ./run_ubiquity starts ubiquity as root with a fresh session dbus ./autopilot launches autopilot as root with the same dbus and takes the PID of the running ubiquity.
[21:38] <balloons> xnox, ok lol.. well I went from confused to understanding to confused again :-) So there's ubiquity changes only in order for this to work.. you then also use the testcase to pass the pid to ubiquity
[21:38] <balloons> xnox, got it
[21:38] <xnox> balloons: thus to run the test case one would open 2 terminals: start ./run_ubiquity in one, and then in another run all tests ./autopilot run ubiquity
[21:39] <balloons> right right..
[21:39] <xnox> or to list tests ./autopilot list ubiquity
[21:41] <balloons> bah.. I guess I'll just reconfirm this now
[21:46] <Noskcaj> do we still need https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UsingDevelopmentReleases ? Shouldn't it be a /QATeam/ page?
[21:47] <balloons> Noskcaj, you could sunset that page and add a redirect to the new page you make under the QATeam
[21:47] <Noskcaj> balloons, ok.
[21:47] <balloons> that's probably what I would do
[21:49] <balloons> Noskcaj, for example we are linking to that page from http://community.ubuntu.com/contribute/quality/.. so it will help there as well
[21:49] <balloons> all the old links we have won't break with a redirect :-)
[21:49] <Noskcaj> balloons, i just looked at the sub-pages, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UsingDevelopmentReleases/OtherWays and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UsingDevelopmentReleases/FixingProblems are huge
[21:50] <balloons> Noskcaj, hmm
[21:50] <Noskcaj> ancient, but huge
[21:51] <balloons> yea, the trouble is that that whole subsection is actually what I'd like to have on our wiki
[21:51] <balloons> namely, how to run the development releases in more detail :-)
[21:51] <balloons> the trouble is that it's old and needs updated and organized
[21:52] <balloons> good stuff in there though
[21:52] <balloons> I didn't know about some of the those pages Noskcaj
[21:53]  * SergioMeneses is reading qa mails
[21:54] <balloons> given everything I think we need to sunset all those pages and migrate https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UsingDevelopmentReleases specifically to a "testdrive" page as that's what we've been using it for
[21:54] <balloons> we still need a page about running the development release though that testdrive should naturally link off of :-)
[21:55] <SergioMeneses> omg this is amazing http://community.ubuntu.com/contribute/quality/
[21:57] <balloons> ohh my.. some mistakes I see ;-)
[22:00] <phillw> balloons: hmm, a perfectly valid point from -classroom. Let us do a session on using 'manual' test cases before we go all advanced into writing them and using / writing auto test cases? It just needs a new section for 'writing test cases' and moving those sessions there.  They are good at pointing things out :D Your thoughts?
[22:00] <Noskcaj> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Testdrive is what i have so far, i'll finish it tomorrow. then i'll start on the rest of that old page
[22:01] <balloons> Noskcaj, thanks.. I can help you if needed.. Don't forget to add our header to the page and then link it in properly
[22:01] <balloons> it's going to be an entire new subsection off of /Activities
[22:01] <balloons> should be fun
[22:01] <balloons> many thanks for doing this!
[22:01] <Noskcaj> yep. no problem. is QATeam/Testdrive where you want this?
[22:01] <balloons> Noskcaj, works for me mate :-)
[22:01] <Noskcaj> ok
[22:02] <balloons> I envision a page from here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Activities
[22:02] <Noskcaj> i'll file yet another bug in testdrive then go to school
[22:02] <balloons> a link I should say on that page which links to a page on "running the development relese"
[22:02] <balloons> from that page, we'll link to your new testdrive page
[22:02] <balloons> and from the iso testing pages, etc
[22:03] <phillw> get the text in 1st! we can do links and make it 'look pretty' later :D
[22:09] <phillw> balloons: I can set up diverts, headers up later as per not having 404 errors on wiki pages :)
[22:11] <balloons> perfect, that would be great philipballew
[22:11] <balloons> err phillw autocomplete
[22:18] <phillw> balloons: I;m suree he used to it now! https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Activities/Classroom/Saucy/ (note the new Section 5)... That okay with you?
[22:20] <balloons> looks good
[22:20] <balloons> that makes sense sure
[22:20] <balloons> you don't need bzr for anything else
[22:23] <phillw> balloons: it is always a good idea to get a pair of eyes from outside of our own team, who is knowledgeable and used to classroom sessions, I do defer to her experience; she is a star :)
[22:24] <phillw> It does make more sense and looks a lot tidier :D
[22:26] <phillw> I'll go edit to remove UTC after each time, as it is in the header :D
[22:47] <balloons> kk