| === saidinesh is now known as saidinesh5 | ||
| zequence | OvenWerks: I'm going to repackge jack2 to separate jackdbus and jackd, and add a postinstall script asking the user if wanting to keep the other one, if installed | 04:28 |
|---|---|---|
| OvenWerks | ok | 04:29 |
| zequence | great, PA was just updated for 12.04 and 12.10 | 04:29 |
| OvenWerks | I would suggest a tutorial on starting jackdbus and inputting it's settings from command line :) | 04:30 |
| zequence | you can still use qjackctl to control it | 04:31 |
| zequence | and a bunch of other apps | 04:31 |
| zequence | it would be good to do video tutorials on jack usage | 04:32 |
| OvenWerks | zequence: I understand qjackctl can be used, but there are people who use jackd because all the CL instructions are based on jackd not jackdbus. | 05:23 |
| OvenWerks | So if someone is getting help, they will most likely be told how to start jack from the command line. | 05:24 |
| OvenWerks | This is another way of saying we have to retrain holstein ;) | 05:25 |
| zequence | hehe | 05:25 |
| OvenWerks | But seriously, almost all the trouble shooting tips on LAU are commandline... what did you get kinds of things | 05:26 |
| zequence | If the user does a jackd command, he will notice quickly it is not installed | 05:28 |
| zequence | and when installing, he'll come to the point where the post install script tells him to choose between the two | 05:29 |
| zequence | or, pre install might be better even | 05:29 |
| zequence | one which also includes a cancel option | 05:29 |
| zequence | we just need to make sure our users know that things have changed after 13.10 | 05:30 |
| zequence | and in any Debian derived distro | 05:30 |
| OvenWerks | How about a wrapper script called jackd that translates a jackd CL into jack_control commands | 05:33 |
| zequence | I'm not sure what problem you are trying to solve | 05:34 |
| zequence | jackdbus is not jackd | 05:34 |
| OvenWerks | all the documentation deals with jackd | 05:34 |
| zequence | The whole purpose of separating them is to make it so people only use one of them at the time | 05:34 |
| OvenWerks | Yes | 05:35 |
| zequence | Making them think they are using jackd would only confuse the situation even more | 05:35 |
| zequence | for most users, using the command line is not needed. or, it should not be | 05:35 |
| OvenWerks | So because all I have read is about jackd that is what I install, now pa - jack bridging doesn't work. | 05:35 |
| OvenWerks | This is why documentation is important | 05:36 |
| zequence | the second step I'm taking is to make sure any jack app could potentially start jack, if not already running | 05:37 |
| zequence | the default setup should be easy as pie | 05:38 |
| zequence | then, if someone wants to get advanced, they can | 05:38 |
| zequence | I think probably there is need for a toggle option for starting jack by default. Have to look more into that | 05:38 |
| zequence | but, by default, I think jack apps should always start jack | 05:39 |
| zequence | and PA should autoconnect to it seemlessly | 05:39 |
| zequence | then, if people don't like that, they can unset stuff like that | 05:39 |
| OvenWerks | Try KDE. the way they have the sound server is more seemless | 05:40 |
| zequence | it's pulseaudio, is it not? | 05:40 |
| zequence | is't the same module, is it not? | 05:40 |
| zequence | what is more seemless? | 05:40 |
| OvenWerks | Yes but plus kmix | 05:40 |
| zequence | a popup? | 05:40 |
| OvenWerks | No, it auto changes the default device to jacksink | 05:41 |
| zequence | they all do | 05:41 |
| zequence | but, not if the stream is already running | 05:41 |
| OvenWerks | Then that is new | 05:41 |
| OvenWerks | I'll have to try that | 05:41 |
| zequence | I mean, what are you suggesting is controlling things besides PA itself, and the module? | 05:42 |
| zequence | are you suggesting KDE adds a way to change stuff for the jack module specifically, that no other DE does? | 05:42 |
| zequence | weird grammar there, sorry | 05:43 |
| OvenWerks | kmix is a replacement for pavucontrol. It also runs as a pannel or tray app | 05:43 |
| OvenWerks | It seems to monitor changes in pa and adapt | 05:43 |
| zequence | it's a software mixer. are you suggesting it has a mind of its own? Isn't it just a control interface for PA, like all other mixers? | 05:44 |
| OvenWerks | it is not like the other alsa mixers, it is a PA interface like pavucontrol | 05:45 |
| zequence | I didn't say ALSA mixers | 05:45 |
| OvenWerks | It has all the same controls as pavucontrol plus some | 05:45 |
| zequence | why don't you find out first what really is going on, and then decide if kmix actually has anything to do with it | 05:46 |
| zequence | from what it seems to me, something in KDE, maybe kmix is sending messages to the notify thing | 05:47 |
| zequence | so, you get popups | 05:47 |
| OvenWerks | It is not notify only, it chna | 05:47 |
| OvenWerks | changes the connections | 05:48 |
| zequence | what does? | 05:48 |
| OvenWerks | if not kmix then something else in kde | 05:48 |
| OvenWerks | outputs get switched from the device to jack on the fly | 05:50 |
| OvenWerks | even though jack has not been set as default and does not show up as default in the settings | 05:51 |
| OvenWerks | pavucontrol _could_ do the same thing, but leaves that as a manual change | 05:52 |
| zequence | AFAIK, pavucontrol is not a process running in the packground. It's a software mixer interface, that doesn't have any automatic functions in itself | 05:52 |
| zequence | you just set PA options and levels with it | 05:53 |
| zequence | So, I'm not sure what you mean really | 05:53 |
| zequence | that's why I'm asking, why don't you find out what is really causing that effect, and whether kmix has anything to do with it | 05:53 |
| OvenWerks | but it is aware when jack is started and shows it rightaway. there is no reason it could not also switch routing at that time | 05:54 |
| zequence | what is aware? | 05:55 |
| zequence | It might be a module that does that | 05:57 |
| zequence | OvenWerks: Probably phonon stuff | 06:01 |
| zequence | Well, it seems that what can do that are applets | 06:06 |
| zequence | pavumixer is not an applet, so it doesn't count | 06:07 |
| zequence | it's not a process running all the time | 06:07 |
| zequence | but, the volume applet is | 06:07 |
| zequence | KDE probably has more stuff going on there, compared to XFCE | 06:07 |
| zequence | as might other DEs | 06:08 |
| zequence | or the applets used | 06:08 |
| zequence | ..with those DEs | 06:08 |
| OvenWerks | yup, | 06:11 |
| zequence | I think Gnome probably does that too | 06:12 |
| zequence | or, the applet used with gnome-shell | 06:12 |
| zequence | might be the same thing with Unity | 06:12 |
| OvenWerks | could be. | 06:12 |
| OvenWerks | It is on the wish list to be included in PA itself | 06:14 |
| zequence | according to a person in #pulseaudio, it's not something that pulseaudio does by itself. maybe they prefer a separate process to do that, all though, it wouldn't hurt to create a module that did that | 06:21 |
| zequence | but, then, it would need to cooperate with the applet | 06:21 |
| zequence | would be bad if two processes were doing the same thing, and in some cases, in conflict with each other | 06:21 |
| zequence | would be simplest if it was a configurable option in PA, and all PA controlling processes were adapted to support that feature | 06:23 |
| OvenWerks | yes, what I suggested was that if module-jackdbus-detect was loaded, then jacksink/source should appear just like a device to PA. To be configed to mono, stereo or surround or off. To be made default even when jack is not running, but with a fall over to another device | 06:41 |
| OvenWerks | I guess KDE had the same idea... | 06:42 |
| === holstein_ is now known as holstein | ||
| zequence | DarkEra: did you try the latest Gnome on saucy? | 14:24 |
| zequence | seems to work ok now | 14:24 |
| zequence | Not sure how we'll deal with multiple DE support right now. I think maybe we need to reconsider how we support them with our installer | 14:25 |
| zequence | ah, wonder if what I wrote appeared or not | 14:25 |
| DarkEra | zequence, hi. No, i didn't try it yet | 14:28 |
| DarkEra | i'll have another look at it this evening | 14:29 |
| zequence | I'm thinking if it might be enough we are able to add our default settings to existing DEs, and artwork | 14:29 |
| zequence | but, I need to have a closer look at how that would work first | 14:29 |
| zequence | a bit busy atm | 14:29 |
| zequence | but, I'll do something about that this week | 14:29 |
| zequence | OvenWerks has done some work on getting the menu working on all DEs | 14:30 |
| DarkEra | no problem, i'm busy myself too with some other things :) | 14:30 |
| DarkEra | oh, that's cool | 14:30 |
| DarkEra | the guy i a machine, always busy working on things | 14:31 |
| DarkEra | i/is | 14:31 |
| zequence | OvenWerks: Does the menu work on non Ubuntu Studio sessions, or how does that work? Just installing the files makes it avilable? | 14:31 |
| zequence | available* | 14:31 |
| DarkEra | zequence, the package, is it still in your testing ppa? | 14:33 |
| DarkEra | just asking because you wanted to move it if i remember correct | 14:34 |
| DarkEra | welcome NickG | 14:44 |
| zequence | Hi NickG | 14:45 |
| zequence | Well, there might be stuff that you could do for the website, sure | 14:45 |
| zequence | Especially for the 14.04 release | 14:46 |
| zequence | which is almost a year away now | 14:46 |
| NickG | Yah | 14:46 |
| NickG | I like the release schedule of Ubuntu lol | 14:46 |
| DarkEra | i so want to Fast Forward to 14.04 | 14:46 |
| NickG | Whats big with 14.04? | 14:47 |
| zequence | I have a staging site, where it is meant we do changes before release, at http://ubuntustudio.mousike.me | 14:47 |
| zequence | It's the next LTS release | 14:47 |
| NickG | ooo | 14:47 |
| DarkEra | exactly :) | 14:48 |
| NickG | so that site is a blank template kind of thing where you work in and then update the main site? | 14:48 |
| holstein | NickG: AFAIK, its a testing ground | 14:52 |
| NickG | good stuff | 14:53 |
| zequence | NickG: my connection is a bit bad, so I might have missed if you said something before | 15:00 |
| zequence | I was asking you if you had done any Wordpress theming before :) | 15:00 |
| NickG | Yeah, actually I've been doing PHP5 and MySQL (the foundation of wordpress) for about a year, and had played around with Wordpress a few times | 15:02 |
| NickG | Right now I'm working on a portfolio/blog/multi purpose website that I'm actually building in Wordpress: http://nickgermaine.ca | 15:03 |
| holstein | zequence: you gotta get a shell account | 15:09 |
| holstein | zequence: i have a free VPS.. you want me to set you up a user? | 15:10 |
| holstein | the one i mostly use is nicnac project freeshell | 15:10 |
| zequence | that's ok. I really don't understand why I'm having such a problem right now | 15:11 |
| holstein | i put thelonius the bot over on this freeVPS when i noticed the terms of nic nac were "no bots" | 15:11 |
| zequence | I probably just need to do a renew on my IP or something | 15:11 |
| zequence | just been to lazy to fix it, plus I'm always interrupting someones internet connection, if I start messing with it | 15:12 |
| zequence | only with irc that I notice it | 15:12 |
| holstein | zequence: i just keep IRC in screen/irssi on there. if you are interested in trying that... let me know | 15:13 |
| zequence | every 15 min or so | 15:13 |
| holstein | zequence: im not doing anything but the bot on the server im talking about | 15:13 |
| zequence | holstein: Thanks. If this thing doesn't get sorted out, I might take you up on that offer :) | 15:13 |
| zequence | but, I'm sure it'll go away soon | 15:13 |
| zequence | NickG: Here's the wordpress theme https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntustudio-website/ubuntustudio-resources/website-wordpress | 15:14 |
| zequence | NickG: in order to get it, install bzr | 15:14 |
| zequence | sudo apt-get install bzr | 15:14 |
| zequence | then, to get the source | 15:14 |
| zequence | bzr branch lp:~ubuntustudio-website/ubuntustudio-resources/website-wordpress | 15:14 |
| zequence | or, if you want.. | 15:14 |
| zequence | bzr branch lp:~ubuntustudio-website/ubuntustudio-resources/website-wordpress ubuntustudio-wp | 15:14 |
| zequence | NickG: Feel free to mess around with it | 15:15 |
| NickG | Yeah if you could set me up as a user that would be good, sorry I got up to make a coffee and have a smoke | 15:24 |
| NickG | I have hosting | 15:26 |
| NickG | Can I just do an additional wordpress isntallation and then install the theme? | 15:26 |
| zequence | NickG: I think to begin with, if you just want to play around yourself, maybe you only need a local WP instalation to mess around with the theme | 15:49 |
| NickG | I haven't managed to get apache working correctly. I mean I can set it up and isntall webmin (the control panel) but PHP doesn't work even after I install it. I can't figure that one out. | 15:50 |
| DarkEra | zequence, i was able to log in on the VB install but that's about it | 17:01 |
| === jussi01 is now known as jussi | ||
| DarkEra | zequence, i guess i'm going to try and install it on another partition. VB just doesn't load the desktops | 20:56 |
| OvenWerks | You missed him :) | 20:57 |
| OvenWerks | I am going to have to download the ISO and try that too. | 20:57 |
| DarkEra | his internet started to play up again | 20:58 |
| OvenWerks | I've had that from time to time as well though not since I started using screen on my server. | 20:59 |
| DarkEra | OvenWerks, you mean the mini iso? | 21:01 |
| OvenWerks | Not the ubuntu gnome | 21:01 |
| OvenWerks | s/not.no | 21:01 |
| * OvenWerks can't type today | 21:02 | |
| DarkEra | and my brain is trying to wake up | 21:02 |
| DarkEra | :) | 21:02 |
| DarkEra | that's what i'm planning to do though cli install and then add the package from zequence's testing repo | 21:03 |
| OvenWerks | I'm working from the other end | 21:03 |
| DarkEra | need to wake up first, i fell asleep on the sofa earlier... LOL | 21:03 |
| DarkEra | so you're going for a full install first and then rip out and add parts? | 21:06 |
| OvenWerks | I do the install then add our menu, kernel and some metas. | 21:07 |
| DarkEra | i see :) | 21:07 |
| OvenWerks | We will see if that is easier and works or if it is better adding a DE meta. | 21:08 |
| DarkEra | brb, i need a coffee | 21:08 |
| DarkEra | right, got ya | 21:08 |
| OvenWerks | Everything is experimental just now. | 21:09 |
| NickG | So, developmental question here. I program in PHP and I'm learning Ruby. What are Ubuntu programs written in? If I program something in Ruby, will Ubuntu be able to launch it? Or is it a different language? | 21:57 |
| holstein | NickG: nothing about ubuntu is preventing you from writing an application it can "run" | 21:59 |
| holstein | NickG: programs are written in what they are written in, and to over simplify things.. the packages get put in the repos, and they pull in what they need | 22:00 |
| OvenWerks | NickG: if you are looking to learn a scripting language, most scripts are writen in python these days | 22:01 |
| OvenWerks | Python has libs that will do a GUI in either GTK or QT. | 22:02 |
| OvenWerks | We already pull in both libs as far as I know | 22:03 |
| holstein | yup. should just work | 22:03 |
| OvenWerks | I have not Looked up if we have ruby installed or not. I am not on the right partition just now :) | 22:03 |
| holstein | its in the repos for sure | 22:04 |
| holstein | !info ruby | 22:04 |
| ubottu | ruby (source: ruby-defaults): Interpreter of object-oriented scripting language Ruby (default version). In component main, is optional. Version 4.9 (raring), package size 4 kB, installed size 31 kB | 22:04 |
| OvenWerks | But the ruby libs are available in ubuntu | 22:04 |
| NickG | Ok | 22:04 |
| NickG | I was just wondering. | 22:04 |
| NickG | I got caught up trying to help someone in #ubuntu it is crazy over there | 22:04 |
| NickG | I did install a QT maker program, but it doesn't show me the code or anything. I will learn python then | 22:05 |
| OvenWerks | There are some good tutorials available if you look around. | 22:05 |
| NickG | Good stuff | 22:06 |
| NickG | I'll put off Ruby then | 22:06 |
| NickG | Thanks | 22:06 |
| OvenWerks | I am just starting on that myself, I have been using tk/tcl for years. | 22:06 |
| holstein | python is a decent place to start | 22:06 |
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