[04:28] <zequence> OvenWerks: I'm going to repackge jack2 to separate jackdbus and jackd, and add a postinstall script asking the user if wanting to keep the other one, if installed
[04:29] <OvenWerks> ok
[04:29] <zequence> great, PA was just updated for 12.04 and 12.10
[04:30] <OvenWerks> I would suggest a tutorial on starting jackdbus and inputting it's settings from command line :)
[04:31] <zequence> you can still use qjackctl to control it
[04:31] <zequence> and a bunch of other apps
[04:32] <zequence> it would be good to do video tutorials on jack usage
[05:23] <OvenWerks> zequence: I understand qjackctl can be used, but there are people who use jackd because all the CL instructions are based on jackd not jackdbus.
[05:24] <OvenWerks> So if someone is getting help, they will most likely be told how to start jack from the command line.
[05:25] <OvenWerks> This is another way of saying we have  to retrain holstein ;)
[05:25] <zequence> hehe
[05:26] <OvenWerks> But seriously, almost all the trouble shooting tips on LAU are commandline... what did you get kinds of things
[05:28] <zequence> If the user does a jackd command, he will notice quickly it is not installed
[05:29] <zequence> and when installing, he'll come to the point where the post install script tells him to choose between the two
[05:29] <zequence> or, pre install might be better even
[05:29] <zequence> one which also includes a cancel option
[05:30] <zequence> we just need to make sure our users know that things have changed after 13.10
[05:30] <zequence> and in any Debian derived distro
[05:33] <OvenWerks> How about a wrapper script called jackd that translates a jackd CL into jack_control commands
[05:34] <zequence> I'm not sure what problem you are trying to solve
[05:34] <zequence> jackdbus is not jackd
[05:34] <OvenWerks> all the documentation deals with jackd
[05:34] <zequence> The whole purpose of separating them is to make it so people only use one of them at the time
[05:35] <OvenWerks> Yes
[05:35] <zequence> Making them think they are using jackd would only confuse the situation even more
[05:35] <zequence> for most users, using the command line is not needed. or, it should not be
[05:35] <OvenWerks> So because all I have read is about jackd that is what I install, now pa - jack bridging doesn't work.
[05:36] <OvenWerks> This is why documentation is important
[05:37] <zequence> the second step I'm taking is to make sure any jack app could potentially start jack, if not already running
[05:38] <zequence> the default setup should be easy as pie
[05:38] <zequence> then, if someone wants to get advanced, they can
[05:38] <zequence> I think probably there is need for a toggle option for starting jack by default. Have to look more into that
[05:39] <zequence> but, by default, I think jack apps should always start jack
[05:39] <zequence> and PA should autoconnect to it seemlessly
[05:39] <zequence> then, if people don't like that, they can unset stuff like that
[05:40] <OvenWerks> Try KDE. the way they have the sound server is more seemless
[05:40] <zequence> it's pulseaudio, is it not?
[05:40] <zequence> is't the same module, is it not?
[05:40] <zequence> what is more seemless?
[05:40] <OvenWerks> Yes but plus kmix
[05:40] <zequence> a popup?
[05:41] <OvenWerks> No, it auto changes the default device to jacksink
[05:41] <zequence> they all do
[05:41] <zequence> but, not if the stream is already running
[05:41] <OvenWerks> Then that is new
[05:41] <OvenWerks> I'll have to try that
[05:42] <zequence> I mean, what are you suggesting is controlling things besides PA itself, and the module?
[05:42] <zequence> are you suggesting KDE adds a way to change stuff for the jack module specifically, that no other DE does?
[05:43] <zequence> weird grammar there, sorry
[05:43] <OvenWerks> kmix is a replacement for pavucontrol. It also runs as a pannel or tray app
[05:43] <OvenWerks> It seems to monitor changes in pa and adapt
[05:44] <zequence> it's a software mixer. are you suggesting it has a mind of its own? Isn't it just a control interface for PA, like all other mixers?
[05:45] <OvenWerks> it is not like the other alsa mixers, it is a PA interface like pavucontrol
[05:45] <zequence> I didn't say ALSA mixers
[05:45] <OvenWerks> It has all the same controls as pavucontrol plus some
[05:46] <zequence> why don't you find out first what really is going on, and then decide if kmix actually has anything to do with it
[05:47] <zequence> from what it seems to me, something in KDE, maybe kmix is sending messages to the notify thing
[05:47] <zequence> so, you get popups
[05:47] <OvenWerks> It is not notify only, it chna
[05:48] <OvenWerks> changes the connections
[05:48] <zequence> what does?
[05:48] <OvenWerks> if not kmix then something else in kde
[05:50] <OvenWerks> outputs get switched from the device to jack on the fly
[05:51] <OvenWerks> even though jack has not been set as default and does not show up as default in the settings
[05:52] <OvenWerks> pavucontrol _could_ do the same thing, but leaves that as a manual change
[05:52] <zequence> AFAIK, pavucontrol is not a process running in the packground. It's a software mixer interface, that doesn't have any automatic functions in itself
[05:53] <zequence> you just set PA options and levels with it
[05:53] <zequence> So, I'm not sure what you mean really
[05:53] <zequence> that's why I'm asking, why don't you find out what is really causing that effect, and whether kmix has anything to do with it
[05:54] <OvenWerks> but it is aware when jack is started and shows it rightaway. there is no reason it could not also switch routing at that time
[05:55] <zequence> what is aware?
[05:57] <zequence> It might be a module that does that
[06:01] <zequence> OvenWerks: Probably phonon stuff
[06:06] <zequence> Well, it seems that what can do that are applets
[06:07] <zequence> pavumixer is not an applet, so it doesn't count
[06:07] <zequence> it's not a process running all the time
[06:07] <zequence> but, the volume applet is
[06:07] <zequence> KDE probably has more stuff going on there, compared to XFCE
[06:08] <zequence> as might other DEs
[06:08] <zequence> or the applets used
[06:08] <zequence> ..with those DEs
[06:11] <OvenWerks> yup, 
[06:12] <zequence> I think Gnome probably does that too
[06:12] <zequence> or, the applet used with gnome-shell
[06:12] <zequence> might be the same thing with Unity
[06:12] <OvenWerks> could be.
[06:14] <OvenWerks> It is on the wish list to be included in PA itself
[06:21] <zequence> according to a person in #pulseaudio, it's not something that pulseaudio does by itself. maybe they prefer a separate process to do that, all though, it wouldn't hurt to create a module that did that
[06:21] <zequence> but, then, it would need to cooperate with the applet
[06:21] <zequence> would be bad if two processes were doing the same thing, and in some cases, in conflict with each other
[06:23] <zequence> would be simplest if it was a configurable option in PA, and all PA controlling processes were adapted to support that feature
[06:41] <OvenWerks> yes, what I suggested was that if module-jackdbus-detect was loaded, then jacksink/source should appear just like a device to PA. To be configed to mono, stereo or surround or off. To be made default even when jack is not running, but with a fall over to another device
[06:42] <OvenWerks> I guess KDE had the same idea...
[14:24] <zequence> DarkEra: did you try the latest Gnome on saucy?
[14:24] <zequence> seems to work ok now
[14:25] <zequence> Not sure how we'll deal with multiple DE support right now. I think maybe we need to reconsider how we support them with our installer
[14:25] <zequence> ah, wonder if what I wrote appeared or not
[14:28] <DarkEra> zequence, hi. No, i didn't try it yet
[14:29] <DarkEra> i'll have another look at it this evening
[14:29] <zequence> I'm thinking if it might be enough we are able to add our default settings to existing DEs, and artwork
[14:29] <zequence> but, I need to have a closer look at how that would work first
[14:29] <zequence> a bit busy atm
[14:29] <zequence> but, I'll do something about that this week
[14:30] <zequence> OvenWerks has done some work on getting the menu working on all DEs
[14:30] <DarkEra> no problem, i'm busy myself too with some other things :)
[14:30] <DarkEra> oh, that's cool
[14:31] <DarkEra> the guy i a machine, always busy working on things
[14:31] <DarkEra> i/is
[14:31] <zequence> OvenWerks: Does the menu work on non Ubuntu Studio sessions, or how does that work? Just installing the files makes it avilable?
[14:31] <zequence> available*
[14:33] <DarkEra> zequence, the package, is it still in your testing ppa?
[14:34] <DarkEra> just asking because you wanted to move it if i remember correct
[14:44] <DarkEra> welcome NickG 
[14:45] <zequence> Hi NickG 
[14:45] <zequence> Well, there might be stuff that you could do for the website, sure
[14:46] <zequence> Especially for the 14.04 release
[14:46] <zequence> which is almost a year away now
[14:46] <NickG> Yah
[14:46] <NickG> I like the release schedule of Ubuntu lol
[14:46] <DarkEra> i so want to Fast Forward to 14.04
[14:47] <NickG> Whats big with 14.04?
[14:47] <zequence> I have a staging site, where it is meant we do changes before release, at http://ubuntustudio.mousike.me
[14:47] <zequence> It's the next LTS release
[14:47] <NickG> ooo
[14:48] <DarkEra> exactly :)
[14:48] <NickG> so that site is a blank template kind of thing where you work in and then update the main site?
[14:52] <holstein> NickG: AFAIK, its a testing ground
[14:53] <NickG> good stuff
[15:00] <zequence> NickG: my connection is a bit bad, so I might have missed if you said something before
[15:00] <zequence> I was asking you if you had done any Wordpress theming before :)
[15:02] <NickG> Yeah, actually I've been doing PHP5 and MySQL (the foundation of wordpress) for about a year, and had played around with Wordpress a few times
[15:03] <NickG> Right now I'm working on a portfolio/blog/multi purpose website that I'm actually building in Wordpress: http://nickgermaine.ca
[15:09] <holstein> zequence: you gotta get a shell account
[15:10] <holstein> zequence: i have a free VPS.. you want me to set you up a user?
[15:10] <holstein> the one i mostly use is nicnac project freeshell
[15:11] <zequence> that's ok. I really don't understand why I'm having such a problem right now
[15:11] <holstein> i put thelonius the bot over on this freeVPS when i noticed the terms of nic nac were "no bots"
[15:11] <zequence> I probably just need to do a renew on my IP or something
[15:12] <zequence> just been to lazy to fix it, plus I'm always interrupting someones internet connection, if I start messing with it
[15:12] <zequence> only with irc that I notice it
[15:13] <holstein> zequence: i just keep IRC in screen/irssi on there. if you are interested in trying that... let me know
[15:13] <zequence> every 15 min or so
[15:13] <holstein> zequence: im not doing anything but the bot on the server im talking about
[15:13] <zequence> holstein: Thanks. If this thing doesn't get sorted out, I might take you up on that offer :)
[15:13] <zequence> but, I'm sure it'll go away soon
[15:14] <zequence> NickG: Here's the wordpress theme https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntustudio-website/ubuntustudio-resources/website-wordpress
[15:14] <zequence> NickG: in order to get it, install bzr
[15:14] <zequence> sudo apt-get install bzr
[15:14] <zequence> then, to get the source
[15:14] <zequence> bzr branch lp:~ubuntustudio-website/ubuntustudio-resources/website-wordpress
[15:14] <zequence> or, if you want..
[15:14] <zequence> bzr branch lp:~ubuntustudio-website/ubuntustudio-resources/website-wordpress ubuntustudio-wp
[15:15] <zequence> NickG: Feel free to mess around with it
[15:24] <NickG> Yeah if you could set me up as a user that would be good, sorry I got up to make a coffee and have a smoke
[15:26] <NickG> I have hosting
[15:26] <NickG> Can I just do an additional wordpress isntallation and then install the theme?
[15:49] <zequence> NickG: I think to begin with, if you just want to play around yourself, maybe you only need a local WP instalation to mess around with the theme
[15:50] <NickG> I haven't managed to get apache working correctly.  I mean I can set it up and isntall webmin (the control panel) but PHP doesn't work even after I install it.  I can't figure that one out.
[17:01] <DarkEra> zequence, i was able to log in on the VB install but that's about it
[20:56] <DarkEra> zequence, i guess i'm going to try and install it on another partition. VB just doesn't load the desktops
[20:57] <OvenWerks> You missed him :)
[20:57] <OvenWerks> I am going to have to download the ISO and try that too.
[20:58] <DarkEra> his internet started to play up again
[20:59] <OvenWerks> I've had that from time to time as well though not since I started using screen on my server.
[21:01] <DarkEra> OvenWerks, you mean the mini iso?
[21:01] <OvenWerks> Not the ubuntu gnome
[21:01] <OvenWerks> s/not.no
[21:02]  * OvenWerks can't type today
[21:02] <DarkEra> and my brain is trying to wake up
[21:02] <DarkEra> :)
[21:03] <DarkEra> that's what i'm planning to do though cli install and then add the package from zequence's testing repo
[21:03] <OvenWerks> I'm working from the other end
[21:03] <DarkEra> need to wake up first, i fell asleep on the sofa earlier... LOL
[21:06] <DarkEra> so you're going for a full install first and then rip out and add parts?
[21:07] <OvenWerks> I do the install then add our menu, kernel and some metas.
[21:07] <DarkEra> i see :)
[21:08] <OvenWerks> We will see if that is easier and works or if it is better adding a DE meta.
[21:08] <DarkEra> brb, i need a coffee
[21:08] <DarkEra> right, got ya
[21:09] <OvenWerks> Everything is experimental just now.
[21:57] <NickG> So, developmental question here.  I program in PHP and I'm learning Ruby.  What are Ubuntu programs written in?  If I program something in Ruby, will Ubuntu be able to launch it?  Or is it a different language?
[21:59] <holstein> NickG: nothing about ubuntu is preventing you from writing an application it can "run"
[22:00] <holstein> NickG: programs are written in what they are written in, and to over simplify things.. the packages get put in the repos, and they pull in what they need
[22:01] <OvenWerks> NickG: if you are looking to learn a scripting language, most scripts are writen in python these days
[22:02] <OvenWerks> Python has libs that will do a GUI in either GTK or QT.
[22:03] <OvenWerks> We already pull in both libs as far as I know
[22:03] <holstein> yup. should just work
[22:03] <OvenWerks> I have not Looked up if we have ruby installed or not. I am not on the right partition just now :)
[22:04] <holstein> its in the repos for sure
[22:04] <holstein> !info ruby
[22:04] <OvenWerks> But the ruby libs are available in ubuntu
[22:04] <NickG> Ok
[22:04] <NickG> I was just wondering.
[22:04] <NickG> I got caught up trying to help someone in #ubuntu it is crazy over there
[22:05] <NickG> I did install a QT maker program, but it doesn't show me the code or anything.  I will learn python then
[22:05] <OvenWerks> There are some good tutorials available if you look around.
[22:06] <NickG> Good stuff
[22:06] <NickG> I'll put off Ruby then
[22:06] <NickG> Thanks
[22:06] <OvenWerks> I am just starting on that myself, I have been using tk/tcl for years.
[22:06] <holstein> python is a decent place to start