[17:29] <c7p> hey all !
[17:31] <CarstenG> Hi John.
[17:41] <cqfd93> Hi All!
[17:43] <CarstenG> Hi Sylvie!
[17:44]  * JimConnett waves at everyone!
[17:44] <CarstenG> Hi Jim!
[17:44]  * JimConnett appreciates others who arrive a few minutes early to a meeting!
[17:45] <cqfd93> :-)
[17:52] <CarstenG> Hi Mario!
[17:54] <JimConnett> One bad thing about not using IRC as much as I need to is my inability to convert a nick of "LaughingPsychoClown" to Bob Smith.
[17:54]  * JimConnett will catch on soon :)
[17:55] <JimConnett> But if I would just look in the FQDN string, I'd see CrustyBarnacle is actually Mario! So, greetings Mario!
[17:55] <JimConnett> ...not rocket-science.
[17:56] <CrustyBarnacle> Howdy! all
[17:57] <CrustyBarnacle> I've been using Crusty for a while for my online interactions :-)
[17:57] <CrustyBarnacle> brb
[17:57] <jmarsden> Hi.  Hopefully phillw and yorvyk will join us here soon too
[17:58] <CarstenG> Well, I think we will wait some minutes until everyone has joined.
[18:00] <hannie> hi mario, sylvie, carsten, jim, kevin, john
[18:01] <CarstenG> Hi Hannie!
[18:01] <cqfd93> hi hannie!
[18:01] <phillw> sorry, I was in #ubuntu-meeting!
[18:01] <CrustyBarnacle> Hola! Buenos dias :-) Hannie
[18:01] <hannie> phillw, you're not too late ;)
[18:01] <hannie> buenos dias amigo
[18:02] <hannie> que tal?
[18:02] <hannie> Let's wait for Kevin, ok?
[18:03] <hannie> I have pasted some notes here: http://pastebin.com/Cw5KU51h
[18:04] <CrustyBarnacle> working on using Espanol mas
[18:04] <jmarsden> Might be good to repost that link after #startmeeting so it gets into the minutes
[18:04] <hannie> ok, will do that
[18:06] <jmarsden> Donde esta Kevin?
[18:07] <hannie> Ah, if only we knew. I give him 4 more minutes....
[18:07]  * JimConnett thinks I need to open Google Translate in another tab...my Spanish is a bit rusty (so far, so good...but later? eh.)
[18:08] <hannie> Having a good conversation in Spanish would be a real challenge
[18:09] <CrustyBarnacle> I'm trying to use it more at home so my little boy learns it :-p... it was my first language, just don't use it much anymore.
[18:09] <CrustyBarnacle> as for Kevin.. quein sabe
[18:10] <hannie> CrustyBarnacle, I will wait until 20:10
[18:10] <jmarsden> El español es una lengua fácil. Pruébelo!
[18:10] <hannie> Muy fácil, si
[18:10] <JimConnett> (translation) Who knows!
[18:10] <CrustyBarnacle> Mira estos. Hablan como que si saben ;-)
[18:10] <JimConnett> (translation) Spanish is an easy language. Try it!
[18:10] <hannie> Ok, I suggest we begin and see if Kevin joins us later. Do you all agree?
[18:11] <CrustyBarnacle> +1
[18:11] <cqfd93> +1
[18:11] <jmarsden> +1
[18:11] <JimConnett> (translation) Very easy, yes.
[18:11] <JimConnett> ...end of translations. Let's get started!
[18:11] <CarstenG> +1
[18:11] <hannie> #startmeeting
[18:11] <meetingology> Meeting started Sat Jun  8 18:11:44 2013 UTC.  The chair is hannie. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
[18:11] <meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
[18:11] <hannie> Do you want me to be chair for the moment?
[18:12] <JimConnett> Yes
[18:12] <hannie> ok, lets see who is attending, please give a sign
[18:12] <phillw> o/
[18:12] <cqfd93> hi!
[18:12] <jmarsden> o/
[18:12] <CarstenG> hi
[18:12] <Yorvyk> o/
[18:12] <JimConnett> Greetings from the Pacific Northwest!
[18:13] <hannie> Here is the link once more: http://pastebin.com/Cw5KU51h
[18:13] <CrustyBarnacle> howdy
[18:13] <ibere_SP> o/
[18:13] <hannie> Before we start, are there any newcomers? Could you introduce yourself?
[18:14] <phillw> hi, I'm phillw lubuntu QA / Testing Team Lead.
[18:14] <jmarsden> I'm noew to ubuntu-manual.  A minor developer of Lubuntu.  Some past LaTex experience.  Interested in the proposed Lubuntu Manual work.
[18:14] <ibere_SP> hi there! i'm ibere and i'm starting to help on lubuntu support team as a contributor. i'm active mainly on facebook lubuntu channel.
[18:15] <hannie> ah, phillw welcome to the club!
[18:15] <CrustyBarnacle> Howdy y'all :-)
[18:15] <hannie> welcome ibere_SP another lubuntu enthousiast :)
[18:15] <Yorvyk> Hi, I'm the idiot that proposed the Lubuntu version of the manual
[18:15] <JimConnett> KEVIN!
[18:15] <CrustyBarnacle> (secretly using Lubuntu on his lappy....)
[18:16] <c7p> sry for that
[18:16] <JimConnett> ...maybe...
[18:16] <hannie> Yorvyk, we will talk about that later, ok?
[18:16] <Yorvyk> Yep
[18:16]  * JimConnett is installing Lubuntu on a VERY old laptop even as we speak.
[18:16] <hannie> Ok, lets start with the first item on the agenda
[18:17] <hannie> #topic Evaluating Raring
[18:17] <hannie> I want to start with the authors phase. c7p could you tell something about that, please?
[18:18] <c7p> sure
[18:19] <c7p> author phase proceed with with some problems related to lack of authors
[18:19] <hannie> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0ApS28NMLnYJXdEdGQjRtUWtaOUZxREVzUldSOU5kc2c#gid=0
[18:19] <c7p> i think that was very vivid during editor phase where editors had to fill some gaps
[18:20] <hannie> yes, sometimes the line between autoring and editing becomes very thin
[18:20] <c7p> after this we gained 2 new authors if my memory preserves me right, something that's very important
[18:20] <hannie> c7p, I am sure you did everything to get as many authors aboard as you could
[18:20] <godbyk> Hey, guys. Sorry I'm late. I lost track of time.
[18:21] <hannie> hey godbyk we just started the meeting.
[18:21] <c7p> one thing that was missing was communication between authors, but i think i'm to blame for that
[18:21] <cqfd93> hi kevin!
[18:21] <CarstenG> Hi Kevin!
[18:21]  * godbyk will read the backlog and get caught up.
[18:22] <hannie> godbyk,  here is the link to the agenda items: http://pastebin.com/Cw5KU51h
[18:22] <hannie> c7p, communication via the mailing list or private emails?
[18:23] <JimConnett> If I could append to c7p's report...
[18:23] <c7p> both and live sessions too
[18:23] <hannie> So here is a point of improvement that Jim will handle
[18:23] <hannie> to all, jim is our new authors coordinator
[18:23] <c7p> yea maybe
[18:23] <JimConnett> The google docs spreadsheet just posted by hannie has a complete accounting of our current authors for 13.10
[18:24] <CrustyBarnacle> I felt disconnected from the other Authors/Editors... but, my own communication/reaching out could improve too.
[18:24] <JimConnett> Every author from 13.04 has been emailed, and every author replied (except for one, I think).
[18:24] <hannie> CrustyBarnacle, that is an important piece of information
[18:24] <JimConnett> We lost two in the process, so the spreadsheet clearly shows where we are ok, and where we are weak.
[18:24] <hannie> JimConnett, will you see to it that communication gets better?
[18:25] <jmarsden> Maybe authors could have a monthly IRC meeting, or similar, so they feel more like a community?
[18:25] <JimConnett> My goal is to connect the authors to the editors. I think this is an important piece to the puzzle we are missing.
[18:25] <hannie> jmarsden, good idea. Will you coordinate that?
[18:25] <c7p> i think live sessions would be ideal
[18:25] <c7p> +1 jim
[18:25] <JimConnett> We also have to recruit. I've already contacted OMG! Ubuntu! for some type of interaction as they have helped us before.  No reply yet.
[18:26] <hannie> jmarsden, sorry, I meant JimConnett
[18:26] <jmarsden> hannie: Well, I expect to me more of an editor than author for Lubuntu related work... but if no one else volunteers, sure.
[18:26] <jmarsden> hannie: Ah, good :)
[18:26] <JimConnett> I can certainly explore an IRC meeting every month up to the due date
[18:27] <JimConnett> But right now, we only have a handful of authors, and I think our efforts should be equally focused between connecting existing authors and acquiring new authors.
[18:27] <CrustyBarnacle> any thoughts on using Google+/hangouts for live sessions?
[18:27] <godbyk> JimConnett: For recruiting in the past, we've posted a list of 'job' openings on our website and then written a little press release about it that we send out to OMG! and others.
[18:28] <godbyk> JimConnett: We can also post it on our Facebook page. We've gotten decent use out of that when we're looking for proofreaders, etc.
[18:28] <hannie> #action JimConnett will see to it that authors meet on irc once a month
[18:28] <meetingology> ACTION: JimConnett will see to it that authors meet on irc once a month
[18:28] <CrustyBarnacle> #idea any thoughts on using Google+/hangouts for live sessions?
[18:28] <c7p> i think that we should contact translation teams to for new members
[18:29] <c7p> many of us are contributing ubuntu manual, because we learnt the project through translations
[18:29] <JimConnett> Aren't the translation teams part of the mailing list already?
[18:29] <c7p> what i mean is that translation teams are more close to project than the rest of community
[18:30] <hannie> CrustyBarnacle, we could use hangouts too
[18:30] <JimConnett> If they are, surely, they would have seen the need  and stepped up as appropriate!
[18:30] <hannie> c7p, we will talk about translations later
[18:30] <godbyk> JimConnett: Sometimes a person just likes to be asked. ;-)
[18:31] <c7p> not talking about translations but for new member recruits
[18:31] <c7p> but it's next on agenda so leave it for later
[18:32] <hannie> right. recruiting. don't we do that already using the mailing list? Everyone who needs help can find us on irc or the mailing list
[18:32] <JimConnett> Alright...so, for this part of our agenda....we have a proper accounting of authors for 13.10
[18:33] <JimConnett> The proposed schedule looks good as well.
[18:33] <hannie> ok, I suggest we go to the editors phase evaluation:
[18:33] <hannie> For Raring every chapter/section had an editor. Like we said before, the work for editors was sometimes more difficult
[18:33]  * JimConnett wonders if THIS time the developer teams will hold to their feature freeze commitment. 
[18:34] <hannie> I would like to see more cooperation between the author(s) and editor(s) of a chapter/section
[18:35] <hannie> How chould we improve that?
[18:35] <hannie> *could
[18:36] <JimConnett> Again, I think this comes down to communication. Everytime an author commits, we should immediately connect them with the editor.
[18:36] <CrustyBarnacle> Have Editor/s per section, instead of throughout the manual? That is, limit to a section?
[18:36] <godbyk> CrustyBarnacle: Currently editors are assigned to specific chapters/sections just as the authors are.
[18:36] <hannie> CrustyBarnacle, some editors edit more than one chapter/section. That is necessary because we do not have enough editors
[18:37] <CrustyBarnacle> OK...
[18:37] <c7p> i think that meetings could help and also we could add a week between author and editing phase, where editor and author would have to cooperate
[18:37] <hannie> JimConnett, agreed. Better communication between author/editor
[18:37] <hannie> Evaluation final phase: was that phase ok?
[18:37] <c7p> it may sound silly, but it maybe a way to formalize that editor and author have to be in contact with each other
[18:37] <jmarsden> JimConnett: can bzr send email to the relevant editor when a commit is made to a given chapter?  Some sort of bzr hook script?
[18:37] <JimConnett> I think editors and authors should be cooperating from the beginning
[18:38] <CrustyBarnacle> +1 bzr email
[18:38] <godbyk> jmarsden: Possibly. I'm not too familiar with bzr hooks, but I'll look into it.
[18:38] <hannie> ok, I suggest one of us will put this on the mailing list
[18:38]  * godbyk has used svn hooks before, but not bzr or git hooks yet.
[18:39] <c7p> that sounds good
[18:39] <JimConnett> Are there any downsides to "reassigning" editors?
[18:39] <CrustyBarnacle> Early meeting of editor/author sounds like a good idea to help get started
[18:39] <hannie> godbyk, I get messages from LP as soon as a commit is done
[18:39] <CarstenG> JimConnett: To get notified about commits, I think every author and editor should be subscribed in the code branch to get an email from LP
[18:39] <hannie> #action hannie will send an email to the list about better cooperation author/editor
[18:39] <meetingology> ACTION: hannie will send an email to the list about better cooperation author/editor
[18:40] <CarstenG> jmarsden: Yes, you have to subscribe you here: https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-manual/ubuntu-manual/saucy
[18:40] <hannie> Are there still any questions about evaluation of raring?
[18:40] <godbyk> hannie: So do I. But I get message as soon as anyone pushes to the branch. Can we make it so editors see commits only from their authors?
[18:41] <CarstenG> Maybe we can set the manual team here to get emails about commits
[18:41] <c7p> i 've spoken for authors, authors that are here can express themselves too
[18:42] <CarstenG> At the moment the team gets no emails...
[18:42] <godbyk> CarstenG: That might get pretty noisy on the mailing list.
[18:42] <c7p> about how they evaluate the previous sereis
[18:42] <jmarsden> godbyk: I suspect you can if someone writes an appropriate hook script, but I am no expert on that.
[18:42] <CarstenG> Well, you can use filters to sort out such email in a special folder.
[18:43] <JimConnett> While I think the authors need to be writing NOW...authoring is a double edged sword
[18:43] <CarstenG> I guess every email program can do this.
[18:43] <hannie> For the moment I would say: if everyone gets a message when something is pushed he/she can see if it concerns his/her chapter and take action if necessary
[18:43] <JimConnett> If you author NOW, then features can (and will) change all the way to feature freeze, requiring re-authoring.
[18:43] <jmarsden> If you are going to mae everyone see all commits, I'd suggest doing it as a separate mailing list ubuntu-mainual-commits or similar
[18:43] <JimConnett> If you author a few days before the deadline, we're scrambling, and it puts editors in a difficult position.
[18:44] <CrustyBarnacle> +1 separate mailing list for commits (I just subscribed to saucy branch on launchpad)
[18:44] <godbyk> JimConnett: Yeah, I think that's the crux of it.
[18:44] <hannie> I do not mind receiving a private message when things are pushed to LP
[18:44] <CarstenG> jmarsden: Well as I told, the usage of filters is very helpful here.
[18:45] <CrustyBarnacle> I say we start authoring, and editors are responsible for last-minute changes in feature/ui (making sure they are documented correctly).
[18:45] <hannie> Conclusion: we will have to find out if we can personalize the LP messages
[18:45] <CarstenG> Hannie: You ar not yet subscribed to the saucy branch...
[18:45] <Thomas> Hello everyone! I'm sorry I am late.
[18:45] <hannie> CarstenG, oh, I will look into it later
[18:45] <jmarsden> CarstenG: Agreed but it's traditional to have a separate list for that stuff, and it avoids putting off newcomers to the mailing list who don't understand why they are seeing all these "wierd" messages :)
[18:45] <c7p> +1
[18:46] <hannie> If there are no more questions on this subject I want to move to the next item
[18:46] <Guest70970> Hello. I hope I didn't miss everything...
[18:46] <hannie> Guest70970, perhaps you can introduce yourself to us?
[18:46] <CarstenG> ok, if we can manage it to push these mails to another list...
[18:47] <hannie> #action CarstenG will look into this matter ;)
[18:47] <meetingology> ACTION: CarstenG will look into this matter ;)
[18:47] <Guest70970> Yes hannie. I am Thomas Corwin.
[18:47] <hannie> ah, welcome thomas
[18:47] <hannie> #topic 2: How to get more contributors
[18:48] <hannie> I personally am not very good at this. Are there any suggestions?
[18:48] <hannie> hi TonyP
[18:48] <CarstenG> Hi TonyP
[18:48] <TonyP> Sorry I'm late as usual
[18:49] <cqfd93> Hi Thomas and TonyP
[18:49] <hannie> Have we done enough in the past to get contributors, and what more can we do?
[18:49] <godbyk> Good questions.
[18:49] <jmarsden> It's interesting that the idea of an Lubuntu version has got you at least 3 or 4 people here today... have you thought of a KDE version, an Xubuntu version, etc?  Would thatr get you more folks from those flavours?
[18:49] <JimConnett> I'll be connecting with Kevin via email for the contact information, the whats, and the hows, with past avenues to put out a call for new authors/editors.
[18:49] <godbyk> In the past, I think we've just posted on Facebook, tried to get a post on OMG!, and tried to get a post on Ubuntu Planet.
[18:49] <godbyk> Then hope that people show up looking to help.
[18:50] <CrustyBarnacle> LUGs...  anyone attend regularly to announce locally?
[18:50] <jmarsden> I'm typing this from a LUG :)
[18:50] <TonyP> I joined following a message on the Ubuntu-uk loco list
[18:51] <hannie> #action JimConnett  and godbyk will look into the matter of getting more contributors
[18:51] <meetingology> ACTION: JimConnett  and godbyk will look into the matter of getting more contributors
[18:51] <godbyk> jmarsden: We've thought about that before, but weren't sure we'd get enough people to work on those spin-off manuals.
[18:51] <CarstenG> The translations teams would be also a good source of new contributors, or?
[18:51] <Guest70970> Could I add something to the agenda if there is time, hannie?
[18:51] <hannie> jmarsden, good suggestion to see if we can get people from other flavors willing to work for the manual
[18:51] <hannie> Guest70970, sure, go ahead
[18:51] <godbyk> CarstenG: Yeah, we have quite a few translators who have stuck around to help with the English manual (hannie, c7p, cqfd93, etc.).
[18:52] <c7p> we 've to look on who will coordinate these spin-off manuals, not sure if we can make it
[18:52] <JimConnett> Anyone worried about resource dilution?
[18:53] <phillw> sorry huys, feeding time here, I'll read the scroll  back later :(
[18:53] <godbyk> JimConnett: I am. :)
[18:53] <phillw> s/h/g/
[18:53] <godbyk> phillw: No problem. Thanks for coming!
[18:53] <hannie> see you, phillw
[18:53] <JimConnett> We're already inviting authors/editors to one project...now we have Lubuntu, which is great, but is there really THAT much crossover?
[18:53] <JimConnett> Example...screenshots from Ubuntu are unusable.
[18:53] <JimConnett> ...unusable in Lubuntu.
[18:54] <ThomasC> Sory. I disconnected on accident...
[18:54] <ThomasC> sorry)
[18:54] <hannie> JimConnett, people from other flavors can help with the ubuntu manual as well: e.g. proofreading
[18:55] <jmarsden> Hopefully once people gain the basic skillset they can use it for multiple flavors... only way to know is to try, I think.
[18:55] <CrustyBarnacle> I'd be interested in how much of Troubleshooting can crossover the different flavors
[18:56] <ThomasC> I will do Wine for the different flavours.
[18:56] <JimConnett> And an editor for Ubuntu would need to have an installation of Lubuntu if the editor is going to properly fulfill their commitment. I have about 7 different VMs installed on my machine, so I can handle it, but others>
[18:56] <hannie> We need to do some research first to see if there are a great many differences between the flavors
[18:56] <JimConnett> There are. Just installed Lubuntu during this session. DVD/CD burning, Office applications (I could go on and on) are different.
[18:57] <c7p> let's put the talk on a foundation
[18:57] <ibere_SP> hannie, i myself can say i learned a lot of Lubuntu reading Ubuntu manual.
[18:57] <hannie> ibere_SP, that is good to hear
[18:58] <c7p> same people will handle both manuals ?
[18:58] <c7p> or there would be "different" teams
[18:58] <jmarsden> That's a later topic, I think :)
[18:58] <ThomasC> After we are done with the important topics, i have a question..
[18:59] <hannie> So, about this topic: will JimConnett and godbyk see to this?
[18:59] <hannie> The topic was: how do we get more contributors?
[18:59] <JimConnett> I'm already taking on a lot. Recruitment is my number one goal. I'd prefer someone else look into this.
[18:59] <hannie> If there are no more questions, I want to go to item 3
[18:59] <JimConnett> ...someone else look into the feasibility of crossover between Ubuntu and Lubuntu for authors/editors.
[19:00] <godbyk> hannie: I can explain what we've done in the past and help brainstorm ideas for the future, sure.
[19:00] <godbyk> JimConnett: I think hannie was talking about getting more contributors there.
[19:00] <hannie> Ok, I suggest we continue this via the mailing list (getting more contributors)
[19:00] <godbyk> hannie: Sounds good.
[19:00] <ThomasC> JimConnett: I can do that in the next couple days, if thats alright.
[19:00] <hannie> Anyone who has an idea, please send it to the list
[19:01] <godbyk> I'll start a mailing list thread on this topic after the meeting.
[19:01] <hannie> #topic 3: Release schedule Saucy
[19:01] <hannie> Have you all seen the schedule I proposed?
[19:02] <TonyP> Is there a link to it?
[19:02] <hannie> #action godbyk starts a mailing list thread on how we can get more contributors
[19:02] <meetingology> ACTION: godbyk starts a mailing list thread on how we can get more contributors
[19:02] <godbyk> TonyP: http://pastebin.com/Cw5KU51h
[19:02] <TonyP> Thanks
[19:02] <JimConnett> ....gives us authors ~ 3 months. That's good. Authors? Are ya'll good with that? See any issues>
[19:03] <jmarsden> Can't editors edit during the authoring phase, as soon as an author commits something??
[19:03] <ThomasC> 3 months sound like a good amount of time.
[19:03] <godbyk> JimConnett: That's true.. but usually most of their work has to happen toward the end of that time as they have to wait for the developers to finish uploading their latest work.
[19:03] <jmarsden> The strict separating in time seems unnecessary
[19:03] <hannie> JimConnett, if the stretch is too long there is a danger of postponing work to the last minute
[19:03] <c7p> the amount of time isn't a real factor to tell, i agree with Kevin
[19:04] <godbyk> jmarsden: They could as long as they avoid bzr conflicts and the like.  (No one likes merging conflicts.)
[19:04] <jmarsden> Sure.  Iwas thinking it would help the author/ewditor collaboration if they work together...
[19:04] <c7p> i think that there should be given one more week for authors (talking as past author coordinator), in previous series one more week was vital
[19:05] <JimConnett> There is no exclusivity in the schedule. We have to have a drop-dead date to keep the project on target.
[19:05] <hannie> I think authors and editors can start by rereading raring and see if it needs to be improved
[19:05] <godbyk> jmarsden: Absolutely! If authors and editors are working together closely then there shouldn't be an problems with having both of them working at the same time.
[19:05] <CrustyBarnacle> agreed
[19:06] <godbyk> c7p: So would we reduce the editing phase to just 1 week? Or is there something else that would need to be adjusted in the schedule to compensate?
[19:06] <c7p> i cant talk for editors, but i think we can amend the release date, no big deal
[19:07] <CrustyBarnacle> can we just list it as Writing Finishes / Editing Begins (both in the same week)>?
[19:07] <TonyP> I was thinking that 2 weeks editing was little enough
[19:07] <hannie> c7p, so you agree with the schedule?
[19:07] <JimConnett> As an editor, a one week is too short.
[19:07] <TonyP> I had a lot of problems with both the lasy two relaeases
[19:07] <godbyk> c7p: Do you mean release the manual a week after Ubuntu has been released?
[19:08] <c7p> yep
[19:08] <hannie> The editors phase is 2 weeks now
[19:08] <godbyk> hannie: Perhaps you should talk about the changes you made to this schedule.  How does it differ from the raring schedule?
[19:08] <CrustyBarnacle> I'd like to keep those 2 weeks
[19:08] <c7p> that would go so if editors think that they need more time
[19:08] <hannie> The schedule does not differ too much from the raring schedule
[19:09] <hannie> There is only a slight overlap between the editing phase and the indexing phase due to
[19:09]  * JimConnett thinks we've tried SO HARD to coordinate software and manual release...that it would be a step back to propose any other release plan.
[19:09] <hannie> the ubuntu release schedule
[19:09]  * JimConnett has to leave in 21 minutes.
[19:10] <hannie> So, does the schedule needs any adjustment?
[19:10] <JimConnett> My vote is 'no'.
[19:10] <CrustyBarnacle> no
[19:10] <ThomasC> no
[19:10] <cqfd93> no
[19:10] <hannie> Ok, next:
[19:11] <hannie> #topic 4 screenshots
[19:11] <hannie> CarstenG, cqfd93 could you say anything about this?
[19:12] <cqfd93> I have a great experience in screenshotting
[19:12] <CarstenG> Well, I would do them again :-)
[19:12] <cqfd93> me too
[19:12] <hannie> Did you encounter any problems in the raring version?
[19:12] <godbyk> Sounds like we have a screenshot team! ;-)
[19:12] <jmarsden> How automated is that process, and can it be made to work in Lubuntu too?
[19:13] <godbyk> jmarsden: At the moment, the process isn't automated at all.
[19:13] <cqfd93> no problems
[19:13] <hannie> Right, CarstenG and cqfd93 will look after the screenshots
[19:13] <CarstenG> One bad thing was the Feature Freeze exeption with some icons...
[19:13] <godbyk> jmarsden: You have to manually take each screenshot.
[19:13] <jmarsden> ah.  I thought I saw something about a python tool to automate things...?
[19:13] <JimConnett> I REALLY like the fact that we have a dedicated team for screenshots. Keeps our shots uniform.
[19:13] <godbyk> jmarsden: We had one once upon a time (Quickshot) but we haven't had any developers for it in eons, so it no longer works.
[19:13] <CarstenG> jmarsden: You mean Quickshot?
[19:14] <CarstenG> That does not work anymore...
[19:14] <jmarsden> CarstenG: Probably :)
[19:14] <godbyk> jmarsden: I still think it'd be great if Quickshot could be revived as I think it did simplify things quite a bit.  But that's just my opinion.
[19:14] <CarstenG> We would need a developer to update it to 13.10.
[19:14] <jmarsden> Otherwise Lubuntu could double the workload for the screenshot team... are they willing to tolerate that?
[19:14] <godbyk> JimConnett: I agree.
[19:15] <JimConnett> So...Carsten and Sylvie, can we officially commit you both to the screenshots for 13.10?
[19:15] <CrustyBarnacle> jmardsen: no commitment has been made to Lubuntu yet.. separate topic/project
[19:15] <CarstenG> Well, the Lubuntu team should find a own screenshot team :-)
[19:15] <ThomasC> I could TRY to make a new version of Quickshot... I can't promise anything.
[19:15] <cqfd93> for ubuntu, yes
[19:15] <hannie> As long as there are no devolopers to adjust quickshot we will not use it
[19:15] <cqfd93> for Lubuntu, I don't know
[19:15] <godbyk> CarstenG and cqfd93, are there any issues you encountered with screenshots? Anything we can do to make your lives easier there?
[19:15] <jmarsden> hannie: How badly broken is it?  I could take a quick look, but I'm not volunteering tens of hours for fixing it...
[19:16] <hannie> ThomasC, it would be great if you want to give it a try
[19:16] <ThomasC> hannie, alright. I will work on it when i can.
[19:16] <hannie> jmarsden, it is outdated and needs a lot of rewriting
[19:16] <cqfd93> godbyk, I don't remember of any serious problems
[19:16] <CarstenG> Well, I had no big problems, only the grub screen I had to do in a VM...
[19:16] <hannie> #action ThomasC will try to revive quickshot
[19:16] <meetingology> ACTION: ThomasC will try to revive quickshot
[19:17] <godbyk> cqfd93: Great!
[19:17] <CarstenG> Great
[19:17] <godbyk> CarstenG: Yeah, the GRUB screenshot is always a pain.
[19:17] <hannie> No more question about screenshots?
[19:17] <hannie> We have a new screenshot team: CarstenG and sylvie
[19:17] <cqfd93> ;-)
[19:17]  * JimConnett has documented Carsten and Sylvie as our highly-capable, super-intelligent screenshot team for Ubuntu 13.10.
[19:17] <CarstenG> one point ...
[19:17] <hannie> #topic translations
[19:18]  * JimConnett ...in the google docs spreadsheet
[19:18] <hannie> ah, CarstenG go ahead
[19:18] <CarstenG> If authors want to have new screenshots, they should do a first draft for them self.
[19:18] <cqfd93> +1
[19:18] <CrustyBarnacle> +1
[19:18] <CarstenG> Then we can make them right.
[19:18] <godbyk> +1
[19:18] <ThomasC> +1
[19:18] <JimConnett> +1
[19:19] <hannie> CarstenG, I suggest authors can get help using the mailing list if they get stuck
[19:19] <CarstenG> Sure.
[19:19] <ThomasC> hannie, quick question
[19:19] <hannie> Next: translations
[19:19] <hannie> ThomasC, go ahead
[19:19] <godbyk> One of the ideas I had the other day was to document the responsibilities and processes for each type of contributor (author, editor, translator, etc.) so that these things (e.g., 'you must take a draft screenshot') are more clear.
[19:20] <godbyk> I'll try to work on that soon and get it added to the style guide.
[19:20]  * JimConnett has to leave in 10 minutes.
[19:20] <ThomasC> What features did Quickshot have, i am not familiar with it, but i am a novice developer.
[19:20] <hannie> godbyk, very good idea!
[19:20] <godbyk> ThomasC: I'll email you some links and info about Quickshot after the meeting.
[19:20] <jmarsden> ThomasC: Suggest running it in a VM on the last version it works on, to see how it used to work?
[19:21] <hannie> ThomasC, I suggest we continue about quickshot using the mailing list
[19:21] <ThomasC> Thanks. I will after the meeting.
[19:21] <CarstenG> ThomasC: Maybe you can install a 10.04 in a VM an test it there? then you get a feeling of it...
[19:21] <CrustyBarnacle> Translations?
[19:22] <hannie> #action godbyk will document responsibilities and processes for each type of contributor
[19:22] <meetingology> ACTION: godbyk will document responsibilities and processes for each type of contributor
[19:22] <hannie> Ok, now to item 5: Translations
[19:22] <CrustyBarnacle> I have to go... will catch up and send ideas/comments to mailing list... bye All
[19:23] <hannie> Are we happy about how translations work at the moment?
[19:23] <hannie> CrustyBarnacle, thanks a lot for attending. see you soon
[19:23] <CarstenG> See you Mario
[19:23] <cqfd93> For the French translation, yes! :-)
[19:23] <hannie> hasta luego
[19:23] <cqfd93> bye!
[19:23] <godbyk> (Aside from my tardiness in getting them published? ;-))
[19:24]  * godbyk promises to work on the French and Slovenian translations this weekend!
[19:24] <hannie> Dutch translations, only LTS
[19:24] <cqfd93> great!
[19:24] <CarstenG> Well, we have 3 languages on 100 % only some days after release of raring! Thats great.
[19:24] <godbyk> CarstenG: Yeah, I think these translators are getting *too good* at their work! :-)
[19:25] <hannie> No more questions on translations?
[19:25] <godbyk> For 13.04, both the French and Slovenian translations are about ready to be published.
[19:25] <CarstenG> So I have the idea to open the translation some time earlier.
[19:25] <hannie> How about the Spanish translation?
[19:25] <godbyk> CarstenG: ?
[19:25] <CarstenG> So we can publish also translations in time with the release.
[19:26] <godbyk> hannie: I haven't heard from the Spanish translation team yet.
[19:26] <hannie> Next:
[19:26] <godbyk> CarstenG: Ah. Well, to do that we have to either fix Launchpad or stop writing/editing early enough for the translators to start their work.
[19:26] <hannie> #topic 6: bug handling
[19:27] <CarstenG> Well, in the last period of editing we mostly do fix typos, so the translators can handle this, too...
[19:27] <hannie> Do we have to assign bug fixing to members of our team?
[19:28] <hannie> At this moment some of us look at bug reports occasionally (I think)
[19:28] <godbyk> hannie: How does our bug handling look at the moment?
[19:28] <cqfd93> I volunteer to help for bug fixing
[19:28] <godbyk> Do we have a lot of bugs that need to be dealt with?
[19:29] <hannie> I would like to see more structure in the way we fix bugs.
[19:29] <godbyk> I know I haven't been very studious about dealing with them lately.
[19:29] <CarstenG> Well, I think who is interested in bug fixing, should join the group https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-manual-bugs
[19:29] <jmarsden> Can you get an automated summary of open bugs emailed to the mailing list, monthly or even weekly?  To provide visibility to the team on what needs fixing?
[19:29] <hannie> I am in favor of letting authors/editors take care a bugs that affect their chapter
[19:29] <hannie> *car of
[19:30] <hannie> * care of (oops)
[19:30] <JimConnett> Alright...I need to leave. Thanks for all the ideas and everyone's participation today. Look to the mail list in the next week for information about recruitment and author-editor coordination. Great to be a part of this project.
[19:30] <CarstenG> If you are subscribed there, you get emails about all bugs...
[19:30] <hannie> JimConnett, thank you for being with us. see you
[19:30] <godbyk> jmarsden: Good idea. I'll have to look into that, too.
[19:30] <hannie> jmarsden, good idea
[19:30] <JimConnett> ...also, my new email address is jim@jimconnett.com. Both old and new email addresses work, but I'm going to be moving to the new address for this project. Have a great day.
[19:31] <hannie> I suggest we continue discussion on bug fixing using the mailing list
[19:31] <CarstenG> see you
[19:31] <godbyk> hannie: Sounds good.
[19:31] <hannie> #action hannie will start discussion on bug fixing on the mailing list
[19:31] <meetingology> ACTION: hannie will start discussion on bug fixing on the mailing list
[19:32] <hannie> Last topic:
[19:32] <hannie> #topic lubuntu
[19:32] <hannie> finally we get at lubuntu ;)
[19:32] <godbyk> Did we scare off all the Lubuntu guys yet? ;-)
[19:32] <ThomasC> hannie: can i add a topic? it would help me greatly...
[19:32]  * jmarsden is still here :)
[19:32] <ThomasC> And i want to help with Lubuntu! :)
[19:32] <hannie> godbyk, I think your explanation on the different possibilities was great
[19:33] <Yorvyk> o/
[19:33] <hannie> so, we have 3 lubuntu people here
[19:33] <godbyk> Thanks for sticking with us, guys. Sorry it took so long to get to this topic.
[19:33] <hannie> Yorvyk, what do you think of the suggestions godbyk wrote on the mailing list?
[19:34] <hannie> One moment, see if I can open that email....
[19:35] <Yorvyk> Basically he confirmed what I'd thought
[19:35] <c7p> sry dc
[19:35] <godbyk> https://lists.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/msg04133.html
[19:36]  * phillw is back
[19:36] <Yorvyk> Sorry I'm in a pub and I'm going to have to move to another area. BRB
[19:36] <godbyk> phillw: Just in time! :)
[19:36] <godbyk> So are you interested in going with the PDF-only route?
[19:37] <hannie> Could other flavors make manuals under the umbrella of the Ubuntu Manual Project?
[19:37] <godbyk> hannie: I don't have any problems with that.
[19:37] <phillw> godbyk: does the pdf version retain links?
[19:37] <godbyk> phillw: Yes.
[19:38] <phillw> that would kill two birds with one stone and reduce our workload for a small team!
[19:38] <phillw> excellent :D
[19:38] <godbyk> Currently, the Ubuntu Manual project uses LaTeX for our work.
[19:38] <godbyk> With LaTeX, we generate PDFs.
[19:38] <godbyk> In addition to the free PDFs, we also offer printed editions of the manual that we currently publish through CreateSpace.
[19:39] <phillw> is there any move to doodle planned?
[19:39] <Yorvyk> I would stick with PDFs, unless there is demand for something else
[19:39] <jmarsden> I think there is enough interest in a Ubuntu Manual-derived Lubuntu Manual that we should figure out how to make it happen -- do we do it as a fork of the Ubuntu Manual bzr repository, or as a sudirectory of it, or even with #ifdef like handling of the chunks of the LaTeX that need to differ between the two?
[19:39] <godbyk> We do not currently offer other ebook formats though this is something I'd like to try to do in the future.
[19:39] <hannie> sticking to pdf makes things easier I think
[19:39] <phillw> hannie: +1
[19:40] <godbyk> jmarsden: I would probably just have a lubuntu-manual bzr repository and you can pull across the existing framework and files that you're interested in sharing.
[19:40] <godbyk> phillw: doodle?
[19:41] <phillw> godbyk: ubuntu-doc are evidently going to be using it.
[19:41] <hannie> godbyk, phillw, Yorvyk may I suggest we work out a plan of close cooperation and publish lubuntu under the umbrella of the ubuntu Manual Project?
[19:41] <godbyk> phillw: Ah, I haven't heard anything about it. Do you have a link?  ubuntu-doc is using Mallard at the moment.
[19:41] <godbyk> hannie: I think that sounds like a good idea.
[19:41] <phillw> godbyk: I'll dig the links out for you l8er :)
[19:41] <Yorvyk> That is what I was hopping for, with out placing too much burdon on you.
[19:42] <godbyk> phillw: No problem. Thanks!
[19:42] <godbyk> Yorvyk: We have a little bit of downtime between releases, so it's a good time to sort this out. :)
[19:43] <jmarsden> godbyk: OK.  I can probably set the bzr stuff up if no one else beats me to it :)  Maybe we can have a "vendor" subtree with the ubuntu manual sources in that we can sync from the Ubuntu Manual bzr tree from time to time, or something like that.
[19:43] <hannie> phillw, Yorvyk does your lubuntu team have a mailing list or irc channel?
[19:43] <phillw> Yorvyk: I think it would it would be better for us go the manual route, and drop doodle. That means we just have wiki and lubuntu-manual to concentrate on.
[19:43] <jmarsden> hannie: #lubuntu and #lubuntu-offtopic here on Freenode
[19:43] <hannie> jmarsden, I should address you too, sorry
[19:44] <jmarsden> phillw: +1
[19:44] <jmarsden> hannie: And the lubuntu-users mailing list
[19:44] <hannie> ok
[19:44] <phillw> there is a lubuntu-wiki-docs team at https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-wiki-docs
[19:45] <jmarsden> hannie: Would you prefer we use ubuntu-manual mailing list for discussion as Lubuntu Manual ramps up, or use other channels so we don't add "noise" for those doing the Ubuntu Manual??
[19:46] <godbyk> jmarsden: For now, let's use the ubuntu-manual mailing list.
[19:46] <jmarsden> Ok with me.  phillw, does that work for you?
[19:46] <godbyk> jmarsden: If it gets to be too much then we can look into a new mailing list.
[19:46] <Yorvyk> OK with me.
[19:46] <hannie> jmarsden, yes, that would be very convenient
[19:46] <godbyk> The ubuntu-manual mailing list and IRC channel are fairly low-traffic, so I don't think it'll be a problem.
[19:46] <phillw> jmarsden: we can use the lubuntu-wiki-docs one for getting the ideas across
[19:47] <hannie> sending a copy to our mailing list is fine
[19:47] <jmarsden> OK.
[19:47] <phillw> but If the ubuntu-manual team are happy with us using their good offices, that's great :)
[19:47] <ThomasC> I mean, i know its not my part to do so, but i can make a channel named #lubuntu-manual for now, and someone else can set it up eventually.
[19:48] <hannie> So, shall we continue our discussion on cooperation through our mailing list?
[19:48] <jmarsden> BTW I downloaded the Ubuntu Manual bzr tree and installed tools and built the PDF last night, just as a starting point...
[19:48] <godbyk> ThomasC: I think we're okay using #ubuntu-manual for now.
[19:48] <hannie> jmarsden, that is great
[19:48] <godbyk> jmarsden: Ah, cool. Did you encounter any problems?
[19:48] <phillw> we do similar with lubuntu-quality, where a lot gets cc'd to ubuntu-quality, but we can still discuss pure lubuntu things amongst ourselves and not clutter up peoples' inboxes.
[19:48] <Yorvyk> I'd rather stick with ubuntu-manual for now so people don't get isolated in to too many small groups
[19:49] <jmarsden> godbyk: The script seems a little odd in places but I worked through it.  The info on your web site assumes using a non-packaged version of texlibe, I';d prefer update it to recommend using packages now that they do in fact work.
[19:49] <jmarsden> *texlive
[19:49] <hannie> Are there still any questions before I close this meeting?
[19:49] <ThomasC> hannie: I have a few
[19:49] <godbyk> jmarsden: I'd love to heard your feedback. I think we encountered problems with the Ubuntu packages when it came to translations.
[19:50] <jmarsden> godbyk: Ok, will post to the ubuntu-manual mailing list which I just subscribed to.
[19:50] <hannie> ThomasC, go ahead
[19:50] <godbyk> jmarsden: Thanks!
[19:50] <jmarsden> godbyk: Apparently someone needs to approve me :)
[19:50] <godbyk> jmarsden: I just did
[19:51] <jmarsden> Thanks.
[19:51] <phillw> godbyk: ditto :)
[19:51] <ThomasC> I was going to propose a possible full chapter about Wine on ubuntu. I wanted to add explanations about adding prerequisites, as well as have compatability issues that are common listed there, with some trouleshooting.
[19:52] <godbyk> phillw: Approved. :)
[19:52] <phillw> thnx
[19:52] <hannie> ThomasC, we should not make the wine section too comprehensive (that is just my opinion) but
[19:52] <godbyk> ThomasC: Having an entire chapter on Wine might be a bit much. We'd like to keep it a 'getting started' guide so it doesn't get too large.
[19:53] <hannie> you must write what is necessary for the users to understand how wine works
[19:53] <ThomasC> Alright. Another idea i had (if this one was blew out of the water) was create a tiny "enhanced" manual that would contain Wine on Ubuntu, LuBuntu, and Kubuntu.
[19:54] <ThomasC> I can create it an compile it off-bzr locally.
[19:54] <godbyk> ThomasC: So a short, self-contained guide for Wine?
[19:54] <hannie> ThomasC, of course you can always publish a manual on Wine yourself
[19:54] <ThomasC> That is correct. But we could leave the basics in the manual, possibly.
[19:55] <jmarsden> "Getting started with Wine in Ubuntu 13.10"  - sounds workable to me, but I'd suggest you keep the sources and tools within the Ubuntu Manual project, just create a separate PDF.
[19:55] <hannie> Yes, the basics in the manual are fine
[19:55] <godbyk> ThomasC: That's a possibility.
[19:55] <ThomasC> Ill make an entirely new folder then.
[19:55] <ThomasC> and put it up in a revision
[19:56] <godbyk> At one point we'd discussed having spin-off guides. For example, an installation guide, a Wine guide, and so forth.
[19:56] <hannie> I think it is a completely different story to start publishing separate manuals on special subjects
[19:56] <godbyk> But we've never gotten around to actually doing it.
[19:56] <godbyk> hannie: I agree.
[19:57] <godbyk> I think that each guide would need to have its own authors, editors, etc.
[19:57] <hannie> Shall we leave this for later? I think we have discussed enough for the moment
[19:57] <ThomasC> I mean, you don't have to publish it with the Ubuntu manual, its just a proposition of an idea.
[19:58] <ThomasC> and yes.
[19:58] <hannie> If there are no more questions, I will close the meeting
[19:58] <ThomasC> I'm done.
[19:58] <hannie> #endmeeting
[19:58] <meetingology> Meeting ended Sat Jun  8 19:57:53 2013 UTC.
[19:58] <meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-manual/2013/ubuntu-manual.2013-06-08-18.11.moin.txt
[19:58] <meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-manual/2013/ubuntu-manual.2013-06-08-18.11.html
[19:59] <hannie> Ok guys, thank you all for being here. You may continue chatting here as long as you wish
[19:59] <godbyk> Thanks for running the meeting, hannie. You did a great job!
[19:59] <TonyP> +1
[19:59] <hannie> you're welcome ;)
[19:59] <CarstenG> Yeah, thanks to Hannie!
[19:59] <Yorvyk> +1
[19:59] <cqfd93> +1
[19:59] <ThomasC> +1
[19:59] <hannie> Hope to talk to you all on irc or the list about all the great things we are going to do in the near future :)
[20:00] <Yorvyk> I hope so too.
[20:00] <ThomasC> I have a small question. How do you make a separate PDF in bzr?
[20:00]  * godbyk is going to find some lunch and will be back soon.
[20:00] <hannie> ThomasC, I think you have to package it and send it to your personal PPA (which you can create first)
[20:01] <jmarsden> ThomasC: A new chunk in the Makefile, I would expect.  So make produces the main manual, but a new target say ubuntu-wine-manual produces the Wine mini-manual PDF instead.
[20:01] <c7p> gj
[20:02] <ThomasC> Wll, i don't want to mess anything up in the Makefile... thats the last thing i want to do.
[20:02] <jmarsden> So you can do either make, or make ubuntu-wine-manual, depending on which one you want to generate...
[20:02] <ThomasC> well)
[20:02] <jmarsden> ThomasC: OK, then create a separate Makefile in your own subdirectory that generates your minimanual
[20:02] <jmarsden> But don't forget bzr exists so you can revert mistakes :)
[20:03] <ThomasC> I wil try to do that tonight, once i get VirtualBox running with 10.04 for Quickshot
[20:03] <c7p> g2g cu all
[20:04] <c7p> good night
[20:04] <ThomasC> Goodbye c7p
[20:04] <cqfd93> good night!
[20:04] <CarstenG> see you John
[20:04] <phillw> g'nite c7p
[20:04] <ThomasC> And i can't find an .iso for Lucid 10.04 Desktop Edition...
[20:04] <jmarsden> Cool.  I need to go home and eat, then will try doing another install of the texlive stuff needed for Ubuntu Manual and document what I did for others in Lubuntu.  Hopefully I can do it using all packages, I dislike the use of the tarball...
[20:06] <jmarsden> Wow, they removed the 10.04 ISOs  now they are unsupported...
[20:06] <jmarsden> Must be on an archive machine somewhere...
[20:06] <jmarsden> I have it on my desktop machine at home, I am pretty sure, worst case :)
[20:06] <phillw> ThomasC: lafibre may still have them https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-wiki-docs
[20:07] <CarstenG> well it is outdated. So it will not be on the official cd mirrors
[20:07] <phillw> soz... c + P fail!
[20:07] <phillw> ThomasC: http://ubuntu.lafibre.info/10.04/
[20:07] <CarstenG> But some time ago I saw a server with all the previous versions...
[20:07] <CarstenG> ah, great phillw
[20:07] <ThomasC> phillw: i was just there. Its not there.
[20:07] <phillw> just looked, they only have server :/
[20:09] <jmarsden> ThomasC: Try http://old-releases.ubuntu.com/releases/lucid/
[20:09] <jmarsden>  ThomasC: Seems to be on the old-releases one to me...
[20:09] <jmarsden> http://old-releases.ubuntu.com/releases/lucid/ubuntu-10.04.4-desktop-i386.iso
[20:09] <jmarsden> http://old-releases.ubuntu.com/releases/lucid/ubuntu-10.04.4-desktop-amd64.iso
[20:10] <CarstenG> http://old-releases.ubuntu.com/releases/
[20:10] <CarstenG> Here we are.
[20:11] <ThomasC> CarstenG: I just got there. haha. It is there still.
[20:12] <phillw> CarstenG: drat, beeten me to it :P
[20:12] <phillw> old ISO's don't die.... they just smell that way :)
[20:12] <ThomasC> jmarsden: I am downloading it now. :) Thank you all for your help. I will do my best o revive Quickshot (even though I may not be adding ALL of its original features at first)
[20:12] <CarstenG> Thomas, thanks for digging into Quickshot.
[20:13] <jmarsden> No problem.  I need to close up this room (still at LUG location) and go home and eat... will email to the mailing list more about adventures installing texlive etc, hopefully in a few hours.
[20:13] <CarstenG> I would like to see it working.
[20:13] <CarstenG> But now it’s time to leave.
[20:13] <CarstenG> See you all.
[20:13] <CarstenG> Good night.
[20:13] <cqfd93> good night CarstenG!
[20:13] <phillw> g'nite CarstenG
[20:13] <ThomasC> Goodnight CarstenG! and no problem.
[20:29] <phillw> godbyk: sorry, my misreading of the email(s), they were having 'fun' with doodle being able to schedule up a meeting as a follow on from vUDS.  The meeting will be held at #ubuntu-doc on Monday 10 June 2013 22:00 UTC
[21:27] <godbyk> phillw: Ah, gotcha. Not a problem.  Though you did have me worried there for a bit.. :)
[21:28] <phillw> godbyk: the -doc team have discussed that many different applications to use, I have completely lost track of them all!
[21:29] <godbyk> phillw: I know!
[21:29] <phillw> I'm glad that they have finally decided on one and will attend!
[21:29] <godbyk> Hopefully we'll get things sorted out during our meeting on Monday.
[21:32] <phillw> Yup, I've held back simply because there was no final decision of what to use and why to have different systems that require the repetition of content across different (in compatible) systems.
[21:34] <godbyk> AFAIK we're sticking with Mallard for the Ubuntu docs.
[21:34] <godbyk> The server guide is using Docbook, I think.
[21:34] <godbyk> And the other *buntu flavors are using Docbook or Mallard as they see fit. (I think most are still using Docbook, but I may be wrong there.)