[16:32] <jdstrand> hi!
[16:32] <tyhicks> hello
[16:32] <mdeslaur> \o
[16:33] <jdstrand> #startmeeting
[16:33] <meetingology> Meeting started Mon Jun 10 16:33:03 2013 UTC.  The chair is jdstrand. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
[16:33] <meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
[16:33] <jdstrand> The meeting agenda can be found at:
[16:33] <jdstrand> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
[16:33] <jdstrand> [TOPIC] Announcements
[16:33] <jdstrand> Christian Kuersteiner (ckuerste) provided debdiffs for lucid-precise for xml-light (LP: #1186860). Your work is very much appreciated and will keep Ubuntu users secure. Great job! :)
[16:33] <chrisccoulson> hi!
[16:34] <jdstrand> [TOPIC] Weekly stand-up report
[16:34] <jdstrand> I'll go first
[16:34] <jdstrand> apparently I am in the happy place this week, which I am grateful for :)
[16:34] <mdeslaur> :)
[16:34] <jdstrand> I'm catching up from being off last week
[16:34] <jdstrand> I've got patch piloting to do
[16:35] <jdstrand> an embargoed update
[16:35] <jdstrand> various reviews and coordination surrounding application isolation, scopes and click packages
[16:35] <jdstrand> and I plan to do a preliminary install audit of the phablet image
[16:35] <jdstrand> mdeslaur: you're up
[16:35] <mdeslaur> I have an openchrome update I'll be releasing this afternoon
[16:36] <mdeslaur> and after that, I've got a bunch of stuff ready for testing in the secppa
[16:37] <mdeslaur> I'm also on triage duty this week
[16:37] <mdeslaur> that's pretty much it...updates as usual :)
[16:37] <mdeslaur> sbeattie: you're up
[16:37] <sbeattie> I'm again on apparmor this week
[16:37] <sbeattie> I'm currently working on the apparmor/sdk work in the https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/security-s-appisolation-sdk
[16:38] <jdstrand> sbeattie: how is that going?
[16:38] <sbeattie> I've uploaded some of the easyprof policy group stuff to the dbus-dev ppa, along with versions of the calculator and calendar app that make use of them
[16:38] <jdstrand> ah, cool
[16:38] <mdeslaur> oh, cool
[16:38]  * jdstrand makes note to play with that this week
[16:38] <sbeattie> I'm still working on getting json input to easyprof going and am continuing to look at what the click package emits
[16:39] <sbeattie> I think there's an apparmor upstream meeting this week that I need to prep for
[16:39] <sbeattie> oh, I should note that after this week, I'm off for two weeks
[16:39] <sbeattie> That's it for me.
[16:40] <jdstrand> sbeattie: wrt click> maybe ask beuno/cjwatson?
[16:40] <sbeattie> jdstrand: sure, I've been playing around with the source a bit
[16:40] <sbeattie> tyhicks: you're up
[16:41] <jdstrand> sbeattie: also, for clarity (since I've been off a week and still catching up), you're still going to work with debhelper correct?
[16:41] <tyhicks> I'm (finally) finishing my email to the apparmor list to compare the various dbus syntax proposals
[16:41] <sbeattie> jdstrand: yes. I didn't do that in the bits I uploaded.
[16:41] <tyhicks> I got sidetracked last week while chasing down some odd things I came across while preparing a profile for that email
[16:42] <jdstrand> sbeattie: ok, thanks. I think that shouldn't be too bad. we (you, me, mdeslaur) can talk more if anything is unclear
[16:42] <jdstrand> tyhicks: please continue (sorry to interrupt)
[16:42] <mdeslaur> oh! forgot to mention I also plan on installing ubuntu on my nexus 4 this week
[16:42] <tyhicks> later today, I'll start prepping for my work items in https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/client-1305-content-mgmt-picking
[16:43] <tyhicks> I'll begin work on that blueprint this week
[16:43] <tyhicks> and will continue working on the parser changes in the background
[16:43] <tyhicks> that's it for me
[16:43] <tyhicks> jjohansen: you're up
[16:44] <mdeslaur> tyhicks: fyi, tvoss mentioned possibly having a command line first draft of that api this week
[16:44] <tyhicks> mdeslaur: ok, that would be good
[16:44] <jdstrand> tyhicks: also note, that the meeting is early tomorrow
[16:44] <jdstrand> tyhicks: did anything happen with rescheduling that
[16:44] <mdeslaur> I guess we'll find out more at tomorrow's meeting
[16:44] <tyhicks> jdstrand: no, I'm going to give it a shot for a week or two
[16:45] <tyhicks> if it kills me, I'll push for a reschedule
[16:45] <tyhicks> I think I'll be fine
[16:45] <jdstrand> tyhicks: sorry about that, but I appreciate it
[16:45] <tyhicks> no problem
[16:45] <jdstrand> I think jjohansen is afk atm
[16:45] <tyhicks> oh, yes
[16:45] <mdeslaur> tyhicks: please don't die
[16:45] <jdstrand> sarnold: you're up
[16:45] <tyhicks> :)
[16:46] <sarnold> I'm on community this week; I'll also be reviewing some patches I expect from jjohansen soon. I'd like jdstrand or mdeslaur's help in pushing the openssl zlib environment variable to a -proposed for wider testing before pushing to the archive
[16:46] <mdeslaur> sarnold: ah! yes, cool
[16:46] <mdeslaur> sarnold: can I try and push what's in the ppa now?
[16:46] <sarnold> my bouncycastle test suite is starting to feel like there's something to it :) I've got symmetric ciphers and their modes of operations working; I can see adding assymetric ciphers and then finally some high level TLS servers/clients
[16:46] <jdstrand> sarnold: just put it in the ubuntu-security-proposed ppa and ping me to push it to -proposed when ready
[16:46] <sarnold> mdeslaur: yes
[16:47] <sarnold> jdstrand: it's already in the security ppa; would it need to be rebuilt in ubuntu-security-proposed before it could be pushed?
[16:47] <mdeslaur> sarnold: nope
[16:47] <jdstrand> sarnold: no, I can do it from there too
[16:48] <mdeslaur> jdstrand: let me try first
[16:48] <sarnold> ah, cool :)
[16:48]  * jdstrand defers to mdeslaur 
[16:48] <sarnold> okay, I think that's me, chrisccoulson, you're up :)
[16:49] <chrisccoulson> thanks sarnold
[16:50] <chrisccoulson> so, last week, i pretty much finished off fleshing out the architecture for our chromium embedding api (tentatively named "oxide", thanks to mdeslaur) ;)
[16:50] <chrisccoulson> i have a pretty good idea of how much work is involved now
[16:50] <jdstrand> tyhicks: (fyi, please feel free to poke me if I don't respond to your apparmor policy email-- I'd like to get those discussions moving and completed)
[16:50] <tyhicks> jdstrand: ack - same here
[16:50] <chrisccoulson> and i've actually created a project branch locally to start some hacking on it :)
[16:50] <jdstrand> chrisccoulson: nice!
[16:50] <mdeslaur> chrisccoulson: oh, cool...looking forward to discussion that with you
[16:51] <chrisccoulson> this week, i've got an embargoed update to do
[16:52] <chrisccoulson> i think that's me (other than that update, i'll be continuing work on https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/client-1303-webkit-maintenance/)
[16:52] <jdstrand> [TOPIC] Highlighted packages
[16:52] <jdstrand> The Ubuntu Security team will highlight some community-supported packages that might be good candidates for updating and or triaging. If you would like to help Ubuntu and not sure where to start, this is a great way to do so.
[16:53] <jdstrand> See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdateProcedures for details and if you have any questions, feel free to ask in #ubuntu-security. To find out other ways of helping out, please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/GettingInvolved.
[16:53] <jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/boinc.html
[16:53] <jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/iscsitarget.html
[16:53] <jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/ruby-openid.html
[16:53] <jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/charybdis.html
[16:53] <jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/bcron.html
[16:53] <jdstrand> [TOPIC] Miscellaneous and Questions
[16:53] <jdstrand> Does anyone have any other questions or items to discuss?
[16:57] <jdstrand> mdeslaur, sbeattie, tyhicks, jjohansen, sarnold, ChrisCoulson: thanks!
[16:57] <jdstrand> #endmeeting
[16:57] <meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Jun 10 16:57:21 2013 UTC.
[16:57] <meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-06-10-16.33.moin.txt
[16:57] <meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-06-10-16.33.html
[16:57] <tyhicks> thanks!
[16:57] <mdeslaur> thanks jdstrand!
[16:57] <sarnold> thanks jdstrand :)
[16:58] <sbeattie> jdstrand: thanks!
[19:52] <kees> \o
[19:56] <cjwatson> hi
[19:57] <kees> looks like a short meeting
[19:59] <kees> mdz, soren, stgraber: ready for (quick) tb meeting?
[19:59] <kees> pitti has sent his apologies on the list
[19:59] <soren> o/
[20:01] <kees> #startmeeting
[20:01] <meetingology> Meeting started Mon Jun 10 20:01:00 2013 UTC.  The chair is kees. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
[20:01] <meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
[20:01] <kees> [topic] Action review
[20:01] <kees> Martin to mail SRU team members about inordinate SRU waiting times in proposed queue
[20:01] <kees> did this happen?
[20:02] <cjwatson> There's been a fairly decent thread, and I understand Brian's new sru-review tool is starting to gain traction
[20:02] <kees> yeah, the thread has been moving along. it wasn't clear to me if this action is considered "done". I guess so, since the thread is started.
[20:02] <kees> so, moving on:
[20:03] <kees> Jorge to check whether brainstorm.ubuntu.com could be kept as a read-only archive, and otherwise shut it down.
[20:03] <cjwatson> There's been internal RT traffic about this
[20:03] <kees> okay, cool.
[20:03] <cjwatson> RT#61484 for those with access
[20:04]  * stgraber waves
[20:04] <kees> [topic] Scan the mailing list archive for anything we missed
[20:04] <cjwatson> IS have said they'll do the dump, although need to check it for personally-identifying information
[20:04] <kees> all I see on the ML is the SRU thread, so nothing extra in there.
[20:05] <kees> [topic] Check up on community bugs
[20:05] <kees> 0 boogs found
[20:05] <kees> [topic] AOB
[20:05] <kees> anything not in bugs or ML or wiki we need to take care of?
[20:05] <jcastro> kees: any questions for me wrt brainstorm?
[20:06] <kees> jcastro: I was just checking on the status of the brainstorm request, cjwatson found the RT. we're all good. :) thanks!
[20:06] <stgraber> kees: so we had a discussion a couple meetings back about the openssl exceptions for squid and mongodb but deferred as we felt cjwatson really should be present for that discussion
[20:06] <kees> stgraber: ah yes!
[20:06] <cjwatson> The mongodb discussion appears to be moot since upstream are (AIUI) adding the exception
[20:06] <kees> excellent.
[20:07] <kees> seems like the same should be possible for squid too, I would hope.
[20:07] <soren> Nope.
[20:07] <cjwatson> squid have had problems tracking down copyright holders I think
[20:07] <soren> Many, many contributors and copyright holders.
[20:07] <stgraber> squid doesn't use copyright assignment, so getting all copyright holders to agree is a bit trickier
[20:07] <ScottK> And we should have a clear policy on this in any case since it comes up routinely.
[20:07] <soren> It's amazingly difficult to get them all to agree to such an exception (even though they probably pretty much all would, it's nearly impossible to track them down and get their sign off).
[20:07] <kees> "please send patches to remove your code if you don't agree". :P but yeah, I know I'm a crazy person.
[20:08] <cjwatson> So, I stand by my plain reading of the licences.  I would be happy to defer to the opinion of the licensors, but if they can't all be found then that's hard to achieve.
[20:09] <ScottK> It seems to me that given the history of the system library exception, it's pretty clear what the intent is in the GPL text.
[20:10] <kees> so do we have a specific thing about this that we need to discuss at this time?
[20:11] <kees> that sounds like "no", so I guess we're done here. :)
[20:12] <cjwatson> (I do recognise that this position is inconvenient, but I can't in good conscience sign off on a reading that looks like a violation based on the plain reading.)
[20:12] <cjwatson> Or something better phrased.
[20:12] <kees> cjwatson: so you don't agree that the system library exception matches these cases?
[20:12] <cjwatson> I do not.
[20:13] <cjwatson> I believe I laid out my position in https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/technical-board/2013-May/001603.html
[20:13] <cjwatson> (I certainly believe that the licensors are entitled to jointly select a different reading)
[20:13] <kees> okay. but I don't think the TB needs to make a unified decision on this at this point.
[20:14] <ScottK> As an archive admin, leaving it ambiguous is bothersome.
[20:14] <cjwatson> Do we have archive admins who disagree?
[20:14] <ScottK> I thought we had a clear policy along the lines of what cjwatson suggests and I'd like to not leave it at DUNNO.
[20:15] <cjwatson> Oh, Dave is an archive admin, isn't he
[20:15] <ScottK> Yes.
[20:15] <stgraber> I certainly agree with cjwatson on this and would be happy to make it policy if that makes things simpler for everyone (and we have consensus on this, at least for the TB if not TB+archive-admin)
[20:15] <kees> ScottK: since several TB folks are missing currently, can you take this to the mailing list and rephrase it from the perspective of needing an official stance for archive-admin purposes?
[20:16] <cjwatson> If people disagree, I would appreciate it if they actually went to the trouble to refute my analysis ...
[20:16] <ScottK> kees: I can do that.
[20:16] <kees> cjwatson: I'll see if I can refute it. you make it hard, though. :)
[20:18] <kees> okay, so anything else? otherwise, I think it's to mdz next meeting to chair (nick-alpha order)?
[20:20] <soren> I have nothing else.
[20:20] <kees> okay, thanks!
[20:20] <kees> #endmeeting
[20:20] <meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Jun 10 20:20:45 2013 UTC.
[20:20] <meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-06-10-20.01.moin.txt
[20:20] <meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-06-10-20.01.html
[20:25] <ScottK> kees: My action is complete (sent the mail)
[21:42] <bkerensa> hmm hmm hmm
[21:58] <bkerensa> Who is here for the Ubuntu Documentation Team Meeting?
[21:58] <pleia2> o/
[21:59] <dsmythies> Doug Smythies is here for doc meeting.
[21:59]  * godbyk is here for the ubuntu-docs meeting
[21:59] <bkerensa> GunnarHj and kotux too? :)
[22:00] <bkerensa> #startmeeting Agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/MeetingAgenda
[22:00] <meetingology> Meeting started Mon Jun 10 22:00:03 2013 UTC.  The chair is bkerensa. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
[22:00] <meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
[22:00] <bkerensa> #chair bkerensa
[22:00] <meetingology> Current chairs: bkerensa
[22:00] <bkerensa> Hello everyone and welcome to the Ubuntu Doc Team Meeting for June 2013 :)
[22:00] <GunnarHj> I'm here.
[22:00] <bkerensa> Our agenda is in the topic if you have not had a chance to read it yet
[22:00] <kotux> hey bkerensa
[22:01] <bkerensa> #topic UDS Work Items Health Check
[22:01] <bkerensa> So the first thing on our agenda is to check on the progress of UDS 13.05 work items
[22:01] <bkerensa> I'm seeing right now we have only one done https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/community-1305-doc-planning
[22:02] <bkerensa> any updates from those who have taken items?
[22:02] <pleia2> I sent the previous feedback emails to the list a couple weeks ago, hopefully that was helpful
[22:03] <bkerensa> My "Review and update current documented processes" work item is nearly finished and I'm about half way done on a rough draft of "Update Getting Started Page"
[22:03] <bkerensa> pleia2: excellent
[22:03] <godbyk> My item is dependent upon bkerensa's items.
[22:03] <bkerensa> :)
[22:03] <dsmythies> this page: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/SystemDocumentation/BuildingDocumentation is reasobaly up to dete
[22:03] <bkerensa> So it looks like I need to bang out my work by the end of the weekend
[22:03] <bkerensa> :)
[22:04] <bkerensa> In regards to the getting started revamp
[22:04] <GunnarHj> Is everything "getting started related" included in the first item?
[22:04] <bkerensa> do you think its important that we write out entire tutorials on DocBook or try and rely on a third party source for that?
[22:05] <godbyk> bkerensa: I'd rely on a third party for the bulk of it, but if you're restricting the docs team to a subset of docbook, I'd note what that subset is.
[22:05] <bkerensa> GunnarHj: not really I think that covers some but does not give a A to Z of everything people will need to know to get started and feel somewhat comfortable with the process
[22:06] <godbyk> Templates, tips, etc. wouldn't be amiss either.
[22:06] <dsmythies> No, 90% of what I have learned is from example of stuff already done. Use 3rd party for anything else.
[22:06] <bkerensa> kk
[22:06] <GunnarHj> I for one think it's not important to go too deep into DocBook or Mallard. To modify pages you can start with just looking at what the page looks like.
[22:06] <bkerensa> I was planning on deferring for example to developer.ubuntu.com for bzr configuration versus re-writing
[22:06] <bkerensa> GunnarHj: +1
[22:07] <bkerensa> I just think a simple one page getting started with links to relevant tidbits is the best
[22:07] <bkerensa> I also think once we get this going we should offer mentoring
[22:07] <godbyk> Sort of..
[22:07] <kotux> same here, it should be in order too.
[22:07] <godbyk> You don't want a getting started page that just links everywhere, though.
[22:07] <dsmythies> Yes, suggest you use the serverguide single page as an example.
[22:07] <godbyk> Because as a new contributor, I don't want to read reference manuals for bzr, launchpad, docbook, mallard, etc.
[22:07] <kotux> godbyk, I'm in a similar situation actually
[22:07] <bkerensa> Ok so since this is our next item
[22:08] <godbyk> I want some step-by-step guides to get up and running quickly so I can fix the bug or make the improvement that I'm interested in making.
[22:08] <bkerensa> #topic  Discuss Collaboration on Final Draft Ubuntu Documentation Getting Started Wiki
[22:08] <bkerensa> Why don't we have a etherpad up
[22:08] <bkerensa> and I will drop my rough draft in this weekend
[22:08] <bkerensa> and then we can polish it off as a team
[22:08] <bkerensa> to the point we are all satisfied?
[22:09] <godbyk> Sure.
[22:09] <dsmythies> O.K.
[22:09] <kotux> no prob
[22:09] <bkerensa> #action bkerensa to push his rough draft to etherpad this weekend for final team polish effort
[22:09] <meetingology> ACTION: bkerensa to push his rough draft to etherpad this weekend for final team polish effort
[22:09] <bkerensa> So I also want to have a hard deadline on which we can have it polished and on the wiki
[22:09] <bkerensa> can we say deadline being the 30th?
[22:10] <GunnarHj> Sounds as a good idea. And I like the idea by godbyk with something that can make people get started quickly.
[22:10] <kotux> GunnarHj, so do I.  All those readings are secondary to getting things done.
[22:10] <GunnarHj> Feel like you are switching topic a little too fast. ;-)
[22:11] <dsmythies> Please refer to the serverguide single page. It allows one to start in minutes. It is really good.
[22:11] <kotux> bkerensa, it's a good date. Between 2 weeks to a month is ample time.
[22:11] <bkerensa> dsmythies: will do
[22:11] <bkerensa> dsmythies: and your input will be appreciated along the way
[22:11] <dsmythies> O.K.
[22:12] <kotux> dsmythies, the single page is not easy to find through navigation alone. But it's really handy.
[22:12] <bkerensa> any more concerns regarding getting started content?
[22:13] <GunnarHj> Nope. An etherpad with what you got sounds fine.
[22:13] <dsmythies> just for reference for the minutes: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/SystemDocumentation/UbuntuServerGuide
[22:13] <GunnarHj> dsmythies: tnx
[22:13] <kotux> It needs a place somewhere in the wiki SOON.
[22:14] <dsmythies> Yes it does.
[22:14] <bkerensa> ok ready to move to the next item?
[22:15] <kotux> ok
[22:15] <godbyk> yep
[22:15] <dsmythies> yes
[22:15] <bkerensa> #topic Ubuntu 13.10 Doc TODO List: What do we want to accomplish in regards to the actual docs we ship
[22:15] <bkerensa> ok
[22:16] <bkerensa> So what do we want to and need to accomplish this cycle in regards to documentation we ship?
[22:16] <bkerensa> What do you consider essential?
[22:17] <GunnarHj> Starting working on it in good time before the release is the key point, I think.
[22:17] <godbyk> I think it's important that we have up-to-date documentation.
[22:17] <kotux> More pictures
[22:18] <bkerensa> I think one of my biggest concerns is the screenshots
[22:18] <GunnarHj> Another thing is that the GNOME docs must be imported in good time. It looks like we are moving to 3.8...
[22:18] <kotux> help.ubuntu.com could be made compatible with mobile.
[22:18] <godbyk> GunnarHj: Do we have instructions for importing the Gnome docs?
[22:19] <dsmythies> As you know, I work mostly on serverguide, which doesn't actually ship. However, we are considering to post all languages to help.ubuntu.com, just like desktop docs.
[22:19] <GunnarHj> I haven't. jbicha did it last time (far too late).
[22:19] <godbyk> GunnarHj: Okay. We'll have to figure out how to do that, then.
[22:19] <pleia2> I'm inclined to keep our goals for this cycle as minimal as possible as I expect core members of the team will be spending their time onboarding new people
[22:19] <GunnarHj> godbyk: right
[22:19] <godbyk> pleia2: I agree.
[22:20] <dsmythies> there is already a bug report requesting epub format be available. I am not on board, becuase it is another thing to check that it compiles O.K.
[22:20] <kotux> dsmythies, ok.  It is a good idea.
[22:21] <GunnarHj> dsmythies: Is it really a good idea to mess with yet another XML format?
[22:21] <dsmythies> Currently there issues for some langauges. I hope to spend time on the issues.
[22:21] <godbyk> dsmythies: I'm not against it per se, but I don't think it should be a high priority at the moment.
[22:21] <bkerensa> exactly
[22:21] <dsmythies> Gunnar: It already happens, we just don't post it.
[22:22] <bkerensa> So
[22:22] <GunnarHj> dsmythies: Can you elaborate on that?
[22:22] <bkerensa> Do we have someone who can make the screenshot script work?
[22:23] <bkerensa> godbyk: would you be willing to ping jbicha and find out about Gnome Doc Imports? Since thats like a majority of where our doc comes from
[22:23] <godbyk> bkerensa: Sure.
[22:24] <bkerensa> #action godbyk to contact Jeremy Bicha to find out how Gnome-Doc Imports to Ubuntu-Doc works
[22:24] <meetingology> ACTION: godbyk to contact Jeremy Bicha to find out how Gnome-Doc Imports to Ubuntu-Doc works
[22:24] <phillw> bkerensa: if you use quickshot, it is being worked upon as we speak.
[22:24] <dsmythies> The .pot and .po tranlsation cycle already exists for serverguide. We just seem to leave it to the regions to deal with. We have had requests to post the other lanagusges. Desktop already does this
[22:24] <godbyk> phillw: I suspect it'll be a while before Quickshot is up and running again, though.
[22:24] <bkerensa> phillw: we have in the past used a script but its broken... It would take vanilla screenshots
[22:26] <dsmythies> My paln was to post the prelim version of help.ubuntu.com for 13.10 much earlier than I did for 13.04 and provide examples. Without committing the required script changes to the main branch.
[22:26] <bkerensa> Well lets re-visit the screenshot issue at another time as I plan for us to have more meetings in advance of release
[22:26] <phillw> godbyk: we'll see how Thomas gets on, I have offered an additional python programmer to assist.
[22:27] <kotux> I think someone should report on launchpad the non-working script and its current problems.
[22:28] <godbyk> kotux: I agree. Filing bugs for our own scripts and other to do items sounds like a good idea.
[22:29] <GunnarHj> How do we identify new Ubuntu specific areas for the docs?
[22:29] <GunnarHj> (Ubuntu specific = not GNOME)
[22:30] <kotux> Organization from the start goes a long way. ;)  That's how I felt while I was sifting through the launchpad bugs the past few days; so many of them (pretty old) did not get the attention they deserved.
[22:30] <bkerensa> Shall we move on to the next item?
[22:30] <bkerensa> which is bugs
[22:30] <bkerensa> :)
[22:31] <GunnarHj> I think the question I just asked is important...
[22:31] <kotux> can anyone answer GunnarHj?
[22:31] <dsmythies> earlier Kevin said: "I think it's important that we have up-to-date documentation." I could not agree more. It is becoming difficult to call help.ubuntu.com the "official documentation".
[22:32] <bkerensa> GunnarHj: Well most of Ubuntu uses Gnome system apps
[22:32] <dsmythies> ... sorry for my chime in on that one...
[22:32] <bkerensa> GunnarHj: if you look at the doc files they have authors and such and most of the gnome doc has gnome authors
[22:32] <bkerensa> where the Ubuntu specific is Jeremy or someone else with an @ubuntu.com e-mail
[22:32] <GunnarHj> Yes, but Ubuntu is not only GNOME admin tools.
[22:32] <bkerensa> but there is not a specific tag necessarily that I know of
[22:33] <GunnarHj> If nobody knows a good answer, maybe there is another task that should be put on the blueprint?
[22:33] <godbyk> GunnarHj: I'll ask Jeremy about that, too. When we do the import from Gnome, we can probably get the list of files at the same time.
[22:34] <kotux> I second that.
[22:34] <bkerensa> #action godbyk to check with jbicha to see about identifying Ubuntu specific doc
[22:34] <meetingology> ACTION: godbyk to check with jbicha to see about identifying Ubuntu specific doc
[22:34] <GunnarHj> godbyk: May be a good start.
[22:34] <bkerensa> Ok we have to move along as other people will need this channel ;)
[22:34] <bkerensa> #topic Addressing Bug Triage Questions
[22:35] <bkerensa> So godbyk wanted to have Ubuntu Doc Bug Triage up for discussion since kotux has been doing an epic amount of tidying of Ubuntu Doc bugs
[22:35] <bkerensa> godbyk I will let you start this discussion off
[22:36] <godbyk> bkerensa: Thanks.
[22:36] <godbyk> kotux and I have been working on the ubuntu-doc bugs lately.
[22:36] <godbyk> (Though it's been mostly kotux -- thanks!)
[22:36] <godbyk> We just wanted to check in and see if we've been handling them correctly.
[22:36] <godbyk> A few questions:
[22:36] <kotux> yup.  Yeah, more tidying left to go.
[22:37] <godbyk> 1. If a bug is misfiled under ubuntu-doc, and we're not sure where it should be reassigned, how do we handle it?  Assign it to ubuntu generally?
[22:37] <godbyk> 2. Are there and project-wide tags or project names that we should use for the various projects that reside under the ubuntu-docs umbrella?
[22:37] <godbyk> For example, docs for other *buntu flavors.. do they have different projects or tags?
[22:38] <godbyk> I know the serverguide project is separate.
[22:38] <bkerensa> jbicha: Quick Q: How did you import gnome doc into ubuntu doc?
[22:38] <godbyk> And we've been trying to switch from ubuntu-doc to serverguide as appropriate.
[22:38] <godbyk> kotux: Feel free to jump in with other questions you have or issues you've come across.
[22:39] <jbicha> bkerensa: sudo apt-get install meld http://meldmerge.org/
[22:39]  * kotux nods.
[22:39] <GunnarHj> As regards the first question: Yes, reassign to Ubuntu if you can't figure out anything more specific.
[22:39] <dsmythies> Yes, thanks... for the serverguide added tags. Many bug reports never get seen by serverguide contributors, yet would be easy to fix.
[22:40] <jbicha> bkerensa: and then just line up your git checkout of gnome-user-docs with your ubuntu branch
[22:41] <bkerensa> jbicha: is there any tagging in docs to let us know what is upstream doc and what is Ubuntu Doc?
[22:41] <godbyk> jbicha: Okay, thanks. I may ping you about it again in the future if I run into problems or have more questions about it.
[22:41] <kotux> I've seen some bugs reported in non-English languages
[22:42] <kotux> Should the descriptions be updated in English?  Google translate comes in quite handy.
[22:43] <GunnarHj> kotux: I would ask the bug reporter to add an English description.
[22:43] <bkerensa> kotux: so for the bugs your triaging those are being reported on ubuntu-docs because help.ubuntu.com has ambigious footer
[22:44] <jbicha> bkerensa: no, meld is really the only clue as to original source
[22:44] <bkerensa> ok
[22:44] <dsmythies> had an ambigious footer. It has been updated, for 13.04. Both serverguide and desktop.
[22:45] <kotux> Right. I've noticed mostly bugs on wiki or system doc.  But some have been reported via apport, which was weird.
[22:45] <bkerensa> hmm
[22:45] <kotux> well, a handful
[22:45] <GunnarHj> As a general approach: As long as you understand what the bug reporter is saying, don't put too much effort on the triaging process. Better to just fix it. ;-)
[22:45] <bkerensa> I'm unsure why apport would send to ubuntu-doc
[22:46] <kotux> bkerensa, It's a point to ponder.
[22:46] <bkerensa> indeeed
[22:46] <kotux> GunnarHj, when it comes to fixing, sometimes, I have the impulse to test them.
[22:47] <GunnarHj> kotux: That's good, of course. So do I.
[22:47] <kotux> But I can't at times.  For instance, I don't have any Ubuntu server in my home to run from.
[22:49] <GunnarHj> Aha, you are talking server... I think it's possible to set up a virtual thing for testing, but I'm not able to tell how.
[22:49] <bkerensa> If the bugs are erroneously filed on ubuntu-docs they should be flagged incomplete and ubuntu-docs should be dropped and they should be moved to whatever they really effect
[22:49] <bkerensa> ideally Ubuntu Bug Squad should be doing this work
[22:49] <bkerensa> ;)
[22:49]  * bkerensa pokes bdmurray 
[22:50] <bkerensa> but anyways lets get this last item discussed
[22:50] <bkerensa> the next team will need the channel
[22:50] <kotux> k, thanks for bringing that up bkerensa
[22:50] <bkerensa> #topic Discussion surrounding requests to join team
[22:50] <bkerensa> So
[22:50] <GunnarHj> bkerensa: Uhm.. I don't think that's a good way to use "incomplete".
[22:51] <bkerensa> I wanted to quickly discuss how we will continue to direct people in regards to joining the team
[22:51] <bkerensa> right now the process is   1. Get some commits in to show your contributions 2. Mail the list 3. Wait for mdke to add you
[22:52] <kotux> This is where marketing and publicity come into play.
[22:52] <kotux> mdke?
[22:52] <godbyk> bkerensa: I think that process is okay for now except step 3 should be replaced with more people having rights to add people to the team.
[22:52] <bkerensa> I think having mdke be the gate keeper for that is akward since he is not officially involved in any part of Ubuntu anymore and has not been for some time
[22:52] <pleia2> godbyk: +1
[22:53] <godbyk> And I'm guessing that the CC doesn't want to keep their role in step 3 either. :)
[22:53] <bkerensa> so my thoughts on that are that we could create subteam
[22:53] <bkerensa> like
[22:53] <pleia2> godbyk: yeah, we want to get off the team asap ;)
[22:53] <bkerensa> "Ubuntu Doc Leaders"
[22:53] <bkerensa> or something
[22:53] <bkerensa> and that team could add Ubuntu Doc Committers
[22:53] <godbyk> bkerensa: Well, that's what the committers team is for, right?
[22:53] <pleia2> bkerensa: couldn't we just make 3 people admins and be done with it?
[22:53] <jbicha> bkerensa: you don't need a subteam to add people, just make people admins
[22:53] <godbyk> pleia2: +1
[22:54] <dsmythies> As I have mentioned before, do not confuse administrsation with team leader.
[22:54] <bkerensa> pleia2: +1
[22:54] <bkerensa> jbicha: +1
[22:54] <pleia2> I really don't want to see another lp team :)
[22:54] <kotux> pleia2: +1
[22:54] <bkerensa> pleia2: +1
[22:54] <pleia2> good, #agreed!
[22:55] <bkerensa> so pleia2 would the CC ideally be ok with Dough Smythies, Kevin and myself to start and see how that goes?
[22:55] <kotux> Is there a certain threshold for commits to be eligible?
[22:55] <pleia2> bkerensa: let's vote on that now, CC will respect the team's vote
[22:55] <godbyk> kotux: There's no hard number at the moment.
[22:55] <bkerensa> kotux: not currently
[22:55] <godbyk> kotux: The idea is that we just want to know that the person requesting commit rights won't break everything. :)
[22:55] <bkerensa> ok
[22:55] <bkerensa> so lets get a vote started
[22:55] <kotux> godbyk, right.
[22:56] <bkerensa> #voters godbyk kotux bkerensa dsmythies pleia2 GunnarHj
[22:56] <meetingology> Current voters: GunnarHj bkerensa dsmythies godbyk kotux pleia2
[22:56] <GunnarHj> +1
[22:56] <kotux> :D
[22:56] <dsmythies> Sorry, I am IRC challenged and do not know how to vote. Sounds O.K. to me.
[22:56] <godbyk> What are we voting on?
[22:56] <bkerensa> #vote Remove mdke and add dsmythies, godbyk and bkerensa to admin for onboarding
[22:57] <meetingology> Please vote on: Remove mdke and add dsmythies, godbyk and bkerensa to admin for onboarding
[22:57] <meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
[22:57] <bkerensa> +1
[22:57] <meetingology> +1 received from bkerensa
[22:57] <pleia2> +1
[22:57] <meetingology> +1 received from pleia2
[22:57] <kotux> +1
[22:57] <meetingology> +1 received from kotux
[22:57] <godbyk> +1
[22:57] <meetingology> +1 received from godbyk
[22:57] <dsmythies> +1
[22:57] <meetingology> +1 received from dsmythies
[22:57] <GunnarHj> +1
[22:57] <meetingology> +1 received from GunnarHj
[22:57] <bkerensa> #endvote
[22:57] <meetingology> Voting ended on: Remove mdke and add dsmythies, godbyk and bkerensa to admin for onboarding
[22:57] <meetingology> Votes for:6 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
[22:57] <meetingology> Motion carried
[22:58] <bkerensa> ok
[22:58] <bkerensa> well that concludes the agenda
[22:58] <dsmythies> Thanks everyone...
[22:58]  * kotux takes a stretch. 
[22:58] <bkerensa> #endmeeting
[22:58] <meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Jun 10 22:58:35 2013 UTC.
[22:58] <meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-06-10-22.00.moin.txt
[22:58] <meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-06-10-22.00.html
[22:58] <kotux> Yes, thank you everyone!
[22:58] <bkerensa> :s
[22:58] <GunnarHj> Thanks all!
[22:58] <bkerensa> I have thee more meetings today
[22:58] <bkerensa> ;P
[22:58] <bkerensa> it never ends
[22:59] <kotux> haha
[22:59] <kotux> glad I'm not THAT busy. :P
[22:59] <godbyk> Thanks, everyone, for coming.
[22:59] <godbyk> We can continue discussing things in #ubuntu-doc if you like.
[23:00] <godbyk> But we should probably get out of #ubuntu-meeting to free it up for the next meeting.