[01:14] <phillw> hi, is there anyone here with  a dedicated GPU card ?
[02:20] <Noskcaj> !nano
[02:20] <Noskcaj> is nano a default app for 13.10?
[02:28] <Noskcaj> IS anyone online with a working 13.10 install?
[02:28] <Noskcaj> if so, is nano still a default app?
[03:37] <balloons> Noskcaj, nano a default app? well nano is command line :-)
[03:44] <Noskcaj> balloons: one of the hardware test cases uses nano, i was wondering if we still ship it
[03:44] <balloons> yes..
[03:45] <Noskcaj> ok
[03:45] <Noskcaj> dumb question
[04:15] <Noskcaj> Can someone check the multiple hard drive part of the Entire disk install testcase. it is outdated and confusing
[05:39] <Noskcaj> balloons, if you're online. i have another big merge comming up
[06:24] <shadeslayer> phillw: yep
[06:25] <shadeslayer> phillw: have a : 01:00.0 VGA compatible controller: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD] nee ATI Seymour [Radeon HD 6400M/7400M Series]
[06:26] <shadeslayer> hmm ... when trying out otto + kubuntu I get : lxc container failed to recieve answer for command
[06:26] <shadeslayer> also : lxc container failed to send command
[07:31] <shadeslayer> jibel: <shadeslayer> hmm ... when trying out otto + kubuntu I get : lxc container failed to recieve answer for command
 also : lxc container failed to send command
[07:35] <shadeslayer> I am unsure as to what command it's trying to send there ...
[07:35] <shadeslayer> ( that is right after sudo bin/otto -d start saucy-otto )
[09:58] <apw> gema, i was asking for the sheet you do have
[11:52] <gema> apw: I don't have a sheet
[11:53] <gema> apw: I am trusting the driver implementation
[11:53] <apw> gema, i was asking for the sheet for the one you said you had a sheet for, i have since found it
[11:53] <gema> ahh, sorry
[11:53] <gema> I thought you meant the nexus 4
[12:49] <DanChapman> Good afternoon :-)
[13:57] <phillw> balloons: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Hardware is alive. Just need someone else to also check it, as Linda's link is wrong.....
[14:50] <apw> gema, this n4 driver, its remaining charge is calculated purely using the integer percentage, which seems utterly inaccurate
[14:53] <gema> apw: otp
[14:54] <balloons> phillw, :-)
[15:06] <gema> apw: sorry, lost context completely
[15:06] <gema> I am back
[15:07] <gema> apw: I am not sure what you mean, it seems to me that full charge would be the result of doing something like calculate_fcc_uah - calculate_unusable_charge
[15:07] <apw> gema, i was saying in this n4 driver, the raw coulombs output are already exposed, and that the remaining_charge as calculated is simply made up from teh full capacity and the integer
[15:07] <gema> and remaining charge should be charge now
[15:07] <apw> remaining charge is (full_charge * current_percentage)
[15:08] <apw> so it is woefully inaccurate
[15:08] <apw> i may be able to use the raw coulombs to make that more accurate but, thats not how it is now
[15:10] <gema> apw: the state of charge is calculated based on charge now (which we don't have) not the other way around
[15:11] <gema> apw: I think we are wasting more time discussing than it would take to just expose that
[15:11] <gema> apw: then we can do the calculations if you want and see what's more accurate
[15:12] <apw> gema, the driver exposes percentages and raw coulombs, it uses raw coulombs and a significant amount of guess work to generate the percentage
[15:12] <apw> gema, it them makes its idea of charges internally using those percentages, at 1% resolution
[15:13] <apw> exposing those is not going to give you any accuracy (even asuming for now that the device has accuracy)
[15:13] <gema> apw: I'd like to be able to validate that empirically
[15:13] <gema> rather than argue each other to death
[15:13] <apw> gema, and i am working to expose them, and when writing the code and testing it, i can see how it is calculated
[15:14] <apw> gema, and i can see that the value i am exposing changes like every time the percentage changes, which is how i _know_ it is based on the percentage
[15:14] <apw> gema, and why am i asking if it is any use what so ever given your comment on the percentage from the GN
[15:14] <gema> apw: what percentage are you talking about?
[15:15] <gema> capacity?
[15:15] <apw> the driver as it stands is calculating its remaining_charge from its (estimate of full charge * 100) / current percentage
[15:15] <apw> its percentage charge remaining estimate.
[15:17] <apw> remaining_charge_uah = calculate_remaining_charge_uah() .... that is using:
[15:17] <apw>         return (fcc_uah * pc) / 100;
[15:17] <apw> ie, it is taking estimated full and using the percentage previously reported, and returning some other estimate in 100's of the maximum capacity
[15:17] <apw> i am trying to get you to confirm that is of little use
[15:19] <apw> and that therefore i need to try and expose something more granular
[15:19] <apw> gema, ^^
[15:26] <gema> apw: are you saying that there is a circular dependancy in the driver? (I haven't really seen enough of it to be able to pinpoint that) in any other case, I am pretty sure the value you are getting is a good start, I can run a test if you give me a kernel with it and figure out if it makes sense
[15:28] <apw> gema, i am saying the value you asked to be exposed is in 100th's of full capacity, i am asking if there is any value in that value, or do i need to work out how to make a better value
[15:28] <apw> gema, to my mind it is pretty clear it is useless as it doesn't change for 10s of seconds
[15:29] <gema> apw: can you give me some example values
[15:31] <apw> gema, the actual value would be like 2088105 and remains like that while the percentage is 91 (ish) and changes only when the reported percentage changes to 90
[15:32] <apw> gema, never mind, i am taking an executive decision that these values are too low resolution to be useful
[15:32] <apw> gema, and i am going to figure out how to get more accurate values out
[15:32] <gema> apw: ack, thanks
[19:43] <Noskcaj> balloons, about my merge proposal
[19:45] <Noskcaj> i think you should let this one in as the hardware tests are less agonistic currently and netboot has a glitch where dd was dt and vice-versa
[20:08] <balloons> Noskcaj, howdy
[20:08] <Noskcaj> hello
[20:10] <balloons> I like your changes, although I'm on the fence about the is vs should be stuff
[20:10] <balloons> but yea, there still needs to be some work done on some of them.
[20:10] <balloons> I can't merge everything as-is.. that's why we like the smaller merge proposals that are more on point..
[20:11] <Noskcaj> balloons, i did all this at school. i can't make merge proposals on the school laptop
[20:12] <balloons> Noskcaj, ahh.. well, your editing all those files right? Just make several branches
[20:12] <balloons> does that make sense?
[20:12] <balloons> make a branch, fix netboot
[20:12] <balloons> make a branch fix is vs should be
[20:13] <Noskcaj> makes sense
[20:13] <balloons> make a branch fix hw tests
[20:13] <balloons> then it's 3 mp's, but it can be reviewed easier
[20:20] <Noskcaj> balloons, i've just fixed netboot. uploaded. could you explain you issues with "should be"
[20:20] <samgabbay> Hi I have a laptop with a broken screen and i wanted to know how i can install ubuntu on it
[20:21] <samgabbay> oops
[20:21] <samgabbay> wrong room
[20:21] <Noskcaj> samgabbay, you might have to replace the screen. tht's pretty simple though
[20:22] <balloons> Noskcaj, well, I'm wondering about how it reads
[20:22] <samgabbay> Noskcaj,  but the laptop is too old for that
[20:22] <Noskcaj> samgabbay, then plug an external screen in
[20:22] <samgabbay> yea but when i do i dont know what key it is to choose what to boot and like i want to make the external monitor the default
[20:23] <Noskcaj> balloons, we need a wording that is constant, so do we want "should" or "is"?
[20:23] <samgabbay> is there a way to make like the external monitor input like the main one
[20:23] <samgabbay> just on like desktop pcs
[20:23] <Noskcaj> samgabbay, should be, once you're in ubuntu
[20:24] <Noskcaj> but it can't be too old to replace the screen
[20:24] <samgabbay> it is its like 6 years old or so
[20:24] <samgabbay> like how do i know what key to press on boot
[20:24] <samgabbay> cause on the external monitor it wont display like when you first turn it on and it  says dell for example and it shows like f1 is bios
[20:25] <elfy> Noskcaj balloons I'm not sure what you're talkign about exactly - but if it's testcases - then there shouldn't be should - it either is and a pass or it's a fail
[20:26] <Noskcaj> elfy, the wording of <dd>
[20:26] <balloons> Noskcaj, in theory you should read the test as do this, expect that. it should be written as fact.. so we don't want should, might, could, etc in there
[20:26] <Noskcaj> i have to go, i'll be back later
[20:26] <samgabbay> guys anything i can do to make the external monitor primary so i can see when it first boots and know the  boot keyu
[20:26] <balloons> however when I explained it to you, yes, the result is what should happen, else it's a back :-)
[20:26] <samgabbay> pleaaassasseee
[20:26] <samgabbay> :?
[20:26] <samgabbay> :/
[20:26] <elfy> samgabbay: you need a support channel - try #ubuntu
[20:27] <samgabbay> but like no one is responding :
[20:27] <samgabbay> :/
[20:27] <balloons> it's a non-ubuntu problem to be fair.. and laptops are laptop specific.. likely no one can help you but yourself, google, and trial and error
[20:27] <samgabbay> :/
[20:28] <balloons> i will say ubuntu has a screenreader mode that will talk to you during installation.. but again, without a screen there's no point.. and it's impossible to know what's going on
[20:28] <balloons> hello elfy !
[20:28] <elfy> hi balloons :)
[20:28]  * elfy is back for a week again :)
[20:29] <balloons> aweosme
[20:29] <balloons> can you make the hackfest tomorrow?
[20:29] <elfy> so get ready for the next installment of how do I upload this again ...
[20:30] <samgabbay> balloons,  like im gonna be using the computer with an external monitor, keyboard, and all i just wanna get it working until i get a new pone
[20:30] <elfy> balloons: eventually - got some r/l to attend to and a xubuntu meeting
[20:30] <elfy> balloons: but if it's autopilot then I'll wander off :)
[20:34] <Noskcaj> balloons, so we want it worded as "this happens" ?
[20:34] <balloons> elfy, it's for everyone.. we've just specifically invitied new folks who might want t hack on autopilot for qml
[20:34] <balloons> don't be scared ;-)
[20:34] <elfy> lol
[20:35] <elfy> so that's 2 things that I'll go pfft at then
[20:35] <Noskcaj> balloons, let me know if there's a hackfest i can attend
[20:35] <elfy> I thought qml was a downmarket sports shop chain ...
[20:37] <elfy> balloons: and of course the other thing being that 99% of anyone will be fiddlign with ubuntu things too ;)
[20:37] <balloons> Noskcaj, there is tomorrow
[20:37] <balloons> it runs through this time, so if your around as normal, you can be a part :-)
[20:37] <Noskcaj> balloons, i mean a time when i'm not sleeping
[20:37] <Noskcaj> ok, i'll try and attend
[20:38] <balloons> Noskcaj, tomorrow at this time we'll be finishing up, so you can attend :-) However, we can try something later on a weekend and see if more folks from down-under and asia can make it
[20:38] <elfy> I shall be attending my own hackfest and working away on xubuntu testcases
[20:38] <balloons> elfy, lol.. just know I'll be dedicating my time to helping whomever get testcases in
[20:38] <Noskcaj> elfy, let's have an official xubuntu test hackfest
[20:38] <balloons> all day long you'll get me
[20:39] <elfy> balloons: I know :)
[20:39] <elfy> Noskcaj: afaik there are 2 people working on xubuntu testcases
[20:39] <elfy> though I think sergio is working on gnumeric
[20:40] <Noskcaj> then mabe a hackfest is wasteful
[20:40] <Noskcaj> *maybe
[20:41] <elfy> balloons: do I remember us having a conversation about the dates on the release schedule staying as they are even though they are patently wrong?
[20:42] <balloons> elfy indeed..
[20:42] <balloons> heh
[20:42] <balloons> ping in #ubuntu-release about it
[20:42] <elfy> but cadence week dates are right?
[20:44] <elfy> balloons: ^^
[20:44] <balloons> elfy, what do you mean?
[20:44] <elfy> the dates on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Cadence/Saucy are right ?
[20:45] <elfy> I need to talk with xubuntu about what we're going to do and when
[20:45] <Noskcaj> balloons, you have more stuff to merge
[20:46] <balloons> elfy, yes I don't plan to change them unless we discuss first and have a reason
[20:46]  * elfy thinks it's absolutely ridiculous that release schedule is wrong because someone in the past set them up and no-on can be assed to deal with it now things have changed 
[20:47] <elfy> balloons: k - just need something concrete to work with
[20:47] <balloons> elfy, there was a note and action item to change the release schedule rpoperly
[20:47] <elfy> lol
[20:48] <balloons> but again, I haven't seen any changes
[20:48] <elfy> well - if it doesn't get soon it can be marked as invalid :p
[20:48] <balloons> I have to work on getting our first week ready :-)
[20:49] <balloons> that's my concenr
[20:49] <elfy> yep
[20:49] <elfy> I understand that - that'll be your job :)
[20:50] <elfy> I don't suppose it matters much as long as we get 'week' with the same image to test
[20:51] <elfy> anyway - I should be about at some point tomorrow - now I am off
[20:53] <balloons> Noskcaj, ok, let me go look at th enew mp
[21:15] <balloons> Noskcaj, so what's this? https://code.launchpad.net/~noskcaj/ubuntu-manual-tests/xfce4panel/+merge/168858
[21:16] <Noskcaj> balloons, i re-based that, it's enough for the guy to merge into ubuntu-manual-tests
[21:16] <balloons> Noskcaj, ok
[21:16] <balloons> i'm re-merging your branch :-)
[21:19] <Noskcaj> balloons, there's more changes, tell me when you want them
[21:19] <balloons> ok on testcases/hardware/1480_USB Mouse I think the bit about creating a file is a bit silly. we can just ask them to test left, right and dragging
[21:20] <balloons> Noskcaj, you can push whatever you have :-)
[21:21]  * balloons just realized he has media keys on the top of his keyboard
[21:21] <balloons> huh..
[21:21] <Noskcaj> lol
[21:21] <balloons> Noskcaj, I'm curious about this one: <dt>Press the Search key</dt>
[21:21] <balloons>  
[21:21] <balloons> 91
[21:21] <balloons>     <dt>The tracker desktop search tool should open</dt>
[21:21] <Noskcaj> balloons, i don't know what that is, it was already there
[21:22] <balloons> right.. I wonder what "search" tool they could mean
[21:22] <balloons> there is no more tracker
[21:22] <balloons> go ahead and remove it if you would :-)
[21:22] <Noskcaj> ok
[21:22] <balloons> all the new changes look better
[21:22] <balloons> I saw up to rev 123
[21:23] <Noskcaj> 124 is uploading now
[21:24] <Noskcaj> i made the search test agnostic
[21:38] <Noskcaj> balloons, you have merges waiting
[21:39]  * balloons looks
[21:41] <balloons> Noskcaj, (might be call "monitor" or "display") to might be "called"
[21:41] <Noskcaj> i approved slickymaster's one, but it needs merging
[21:41] <balloons> all those changes look good
[21:41] <balloons> I'll merge his
[21:41] <balloons> so I think the only thing left is the is -> should be stuff right?
[21:42] <Noskcaj> balloons, that and the wireless networking test
[21:42] <balloons> excellent
[21:43] <balloons> Noskcaj, this https://code.launchpad.net/~noskcaj/ubuntu-manual-tests/xfce4panel/+merge/168858 has to be done by david
[21:43] <balloons> ohh nvm, I see it ;-)
[21:43] <Noskcaj> :)
[21:49] <Noskcaj> balloons, the last upload is going now. i think that's all the hardware tests
[21:54] <balloons> i'm looking over
[21:55] <balloons> ok, everything looks good
[21:55] <balloons> let me do a full review again Noskcaj
[21:55] <Noskcaj> ok, ty
[21:58] <balloons> Noskcaj, :-( This is still using unity stuff for no reason..
[21:58] <balloons> /home/nskaggs/projects/ubuntu-manual-tests/testcases/hardware/1477_Builtin Keyboard
[21:58] <balloons> can you make it generic?
[21:58] <Noskcaj> one sec
[21:58] <balloons> sure.. I'll just keep rambling my thoughts here
[22:02] <Noskcaj> balloons, uploaded
[22:05] <balloons> Noskcaj, another small tweak..     <dt>Insert a media card into the reader.</dt> <dd>A suggestion window should open for the card</dd>
[22:05] <balloons> I'm not sure we can assume or need to assume a suggestion window will appear on every flabor
[22:05] <Noskcaj> ok
[22:06] <balloons> this is from 1484_Internal Data Card Reader
[22:06] <balloons> you can simplify the whole thing and just say open the card up with a file manager
[22:06] <balloons> we want to test the read and writing to the card, etc
[22:07] <balloons> in the suspend and resume, you don't need to mention using firefox specifically
[22:07] <balloons> 1486_Suspend & Resume
[22:07] <Noskcaj> ok
[22:07] <balloons>     <dt>Open a few applications in on the desktop, including Firefox</dt>
[22:07] <Noskcaj> pushing now
[22:09] <balloons> ok, the final tweaks I see
[22:09] <Noskcaj> balloons, can you explain test 1399_unity startup? it seems to have a translation part
[22:10] <balloons> 1300,1301,1302,1465,1504,ubuntu touch/1518 and ubuntu touch/1519 all should drop the 'should be' language and keep the 'is' language. The other tweaks in those files are good
[22:10] <balloons> Noskcaj, let me look at it
[22:11] <balloons> ohh right
[22:11] <balloons> that was imported from the old unity manual tests
[22:11] <Noskcaj> ok
[22:11] <balloons> essentially it's just a gut check that unity starts up and the desktop loads
[22:11] <balloons> including translations..
[22:12] <Noskcaj> I just updated it so it made sense, but i doubt it will every be looked at
[22:16]  * Noskcaj leaves for school
[23:57] <kotux> hello!