[06:12] <dwatkins> mornin
[06:41] <Myrtti> meh
[06:46] <brobostigon> morning everyone,
[06:49] <knightwise> hey brobostigon
[06:49] <knightwise> good morning dude !
[06:49] <brobostigon> morning knightwise
[06:50] <knightwise> how are you dude
[06:51] <TheOpenSourcerer> Morning all - anyone else use Hotot and find it not working this morning?
[06:51] <brobostigon> knightwise: crap, being dumped by sms, is ineffectual unemotional and stringy. and you?
[06:54] <knightwise> crud dude :( thats realy poor taste :( that sux :(
[06:55] <brobostigon> very sux, yes. crud?
[06:56] <knightwise> "Crud" = Crap, (crud is a dark kind of grimy dirt)
[06:56] <brobostigon> her doing that, says two logical things to me, either and or, she was strigning me along and or for some time she felt nothing at all.
[06:57] <brobostigon> ah. i shall remeber that word.
[06:57] <knightwise> anyone who breaks up with you in less then 124 characters is not worth spilling more then 124 tears over
[06:58] <brobostigon> agreed, hence me saying ineffectual and unemotional.
[06:58] <dwatkins> I was dumped via telephone once, that was almost as bad as via text message.
[06:59] <brobostigon> yes.
[06:59]  * knightwise got dumped over the phone once too. 
[06:59] <knightwise> we had only been together for three years ...
[06:59] <brobostigon> it is hurtful that someone cant even face talking directly to you, and has to be disconnected.
[06:59] <dwatkins> looking back, it was a lucky escape for me, but at the time it really hurt.
[06:59] <knightwise> true
[07:00] <knightwise> but in the end you are better of without those kind of people in your life
[07:00] <brobostigon> probably, yes.
[07:01] <brobostigon> after two years of not updating my blog, i did so last night. amazing isnt it.
[07:01] <dwatkins> yeah, although my most recent ex waited until I drove down to London from Edinburgh to split up with me face-to-face by handing me a letter, which was really surreal.
[07:01] <dwatkins> yeah, I realised I started losing myself in "being a couple", which is dangerous whatever happens.
[07:01] <brobostigon> fair point,
[07:02] <dwatkins> ironically, she now takes the train to come and see me, as we're still friends and she misses Edinburgh.
[07:03]  * dwatkins is reminded of the submission for "ironic" as one of the most misused words, having probably just misused it
[07:04] <brobostigon> and i have a good feeling, my aspergers was the issue, as i was talking to a good friend of mine yesterday afternoon and she said, it seemed sometimes as if it put alot of pressure on the relationship when none would be normally.
[07:04] <dwatkins> I got the "just pals" speech the other day from a rather nice doctor I've been spending time with, so yet again am moving on, reminding myself of ponds etc.
[07:04] <dwatkins> I'm probably on the aspergers spectrum, but have never been officially diagnosed.
[07:05] <dwatkins> Socially I sometimes find it very difficult to fit in, and sometimes I need to just lock myself away from the world. Perhaps that's just being an introvert, though.
[07:05] <brobostigon> a good example being, either of two possible things, either i am too distant or too close, no inbetween.
[07:06] <dwatkins> sounds familiar, I am often told I'm too open, wear my heart on my sleeve etc. but I also feel I sometimes just don't say anything and there's slightly uncomfortable slience.
[07:06] <dwatkins> Silence shouldn't be uncomfortable.
[07:07] <brobostigon> reminds me of shuttle journeys between tuvok and seven in St voyager.
[07:07]  * dwatkins apologises for waffling, but is probably still drunk having been to see Helen Arney last night doing her maths/science comedy gig "Voice of an angle"
[07:07] <dwatkins> [sic]
[07:07] <dwatkins> haha yeah
[07:08]  * dwatkins wonders if he's Tuvok or Seven...
[07:08] <brobostigon> it is a good analogy.
[07:09] <dwatkins> indeed, makes me think I should re-watch that series after I've finished rewatching Stargate
[07:10] <brobostigon> :)
[07:12]  * dwatkins has a sudden urge to try Crunchbang Linux
[07:13]  * brobostigon has a urge to aim his head at a wall, but is trying hard not too.
[07:15] <dwatkins> I find shouting at trains helps
[07:16] <MooDoo> morning
[07:16] <brobostigon> interesting idea, the closest i could do here, is standing on the railway bridge, but that might look abit strange.
[07:16] <brobostigon> morning MooDoo
[07:20] <kaushal> Hi
[07:21] <kaushal> I have installed unity-pidgin-lens
[07:22] <kaushal> How do i search it in dash?
[07:22] <dwatkins> note to self: don't reboot servers with disk problems
[07:22]  * brobostigon is just updating his blog again, with something insightful. hopefully.
[07:22] <kaushal> dwatkins: Hi
[07:22] <dwatkins> ello kaushal
[07:26] <dwatkins> I think I'll setup a raspberry Pi at home so I've got something to log in to and act as a proxy. No need to keep using the netbook now I have a NAS.
[07:28] <kaushal> dwatkins: Any clue?
[07:30] <dwatkins> kaushal: no, I have no clue.
[07:30] <kaushal> dwatkins: ok np
[07:30] <dwatkins> What does its documentation say?
[07:34] <ali1234> why not just use the NAS
[07:35] <dwatkins> ali1234: I'm not sure I want to expose any ports of it to the internets
[07:51] <dwatkins> I'm rather looking forward to this game being released http://play0ad.com/
[08:25] <mungbean> is there a good cli for examining video files to inspect codecs etc?
[08:25] <mungbean> more than "file blah.avi"
[08:25] <mungbean> i get RIFF (little-endian) data, AVI, 640 x 360, 25.00 fps, video: XviD, audio: (stereo, 48000 Hz)
[08:25] <mungbean> but vlc will not play it
[08:26] <mungbean> bad audio
[08:28] <JamesTait> Good morning all, happy Day Against Child Labour and happy Loving Day! :-D
[08:30]  * AlanBell won't be telling the kids about that one
[08:30] <BigRedS> haha
[08:31] <JamesTait> Me neither.
[08:31]  * JamesTait cracks the whip
[08:31] <Gary> oooo, a whip
[08:31] <Gary> giggity
[08:31] <JamesTait> Not *that* whip, Gary, that's put away somewhere safe.
[08:31] <Gary> aww
[08:32] <JamesTait> How are you, young man? Haven't seen you for a while.
[08:32] <Gary> my child is pretty much firm on his stance about any form of labour anyway, he's normally found in bed
[08:32] <Gary> james, pretty good thank you
[08:33] <JamesTait> Good good. :)
[08:38] <mungbean> mediainfo is the answer to my question
[08:46] <mungbean> wonders in MartijnVdS is around
[08:54] <MooDoo> MartijnVdS: you around? ;)
[08:55] <mungbean> i think i may have solved my problem
[08:55] <mungbean> wanted a audio converter expert to tell me which audio format a divx player is likely to support
[08:55] <mungbean> i am guessing at avconv using libmp3lame..will find out tonight
[09:16] <popey> mungbean: be surprised if it didn't support mp3
[09:28] <popey> ooh http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2013/06/exclusive-an-early-look-at-intels-own-phone-ui-obsidian/
[09:28] <popey> next year there's going to be so many phone choices
[09:28] <mungbean> non ARM intel chips?
[09:28] <BigRedS> Oh man, I don't want choice!
[09:29]  * ^2fC *yawns* ...
[09:29] <^2fC> Morn all.
[09:31] <popey> the phone in that video looked like a samsung galaxy nexus to me, but I am no expert
[09:32] <BigRedS> thinking about it, though, Android still has so many stupid UI/UX bugs in it that I'd be skeptical of any new one that's less than a couple of 'proper' releases in
[09:35] <mungbean> never really noticed issues with android
[09:36] <mungbean> except that it was initially somewhat unintuitive when i first used it
[09:36] <BigRedS> Nah, they're not major, just little niggles that irk
[09:36] <BigRedS> like the back button being unpredictable
[09:37] <mungbean> my back button has started to sometimes not work
[09:37] <mungbean> i figure its the most used button on my phone
[09:37] <mungbean> as a means of switchign windows
[09:40] <mungbean> my ARM shares lost about 20% last week
[09:40] <directhex> BigRedS, silly child. whenever you complain about those types of bugs, the fix is "upgrade to android+1"
[09:41] <directhex> and if you do, and it still sucks, "your hardware sucks. add more cores"
[10:03] <davmor2> Morning all
[10:03] <BigRedS> directhex: haha, yeah. Android has the _worst_ sort of "$thing is infallible" fanbois
[10:04] <BigRedS> but, also, I'm pretty bad at using comptuers. I generally get annoyed by whatever I'm using
[10:04] <directhex> i still like the WebOS UX best, but not its bugs
[10:05] <BigRedS> I miss my P900 but I'm sure it has problems that I've now forgotten
[10:05] <BigRedS> I do seem to be forever dealing with my desktop displaying cached content when I want new stuff and my phone dropping the cache as soon as it's written it and demanding it reload the page
[10:08] <bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
[10:09] <MooDoo> mroning
[10:10] <Gary> mornzzzzz
[10:10] <Gary> oh why did I have a cup of coffee at 10pm last night!!!
[10:16] <TheOpenSourcerer> ping popey
[10:30] <aquarius> so: a shared hosting environment with ssh. I would like to know whether /tmp is a tmpfs or not. It is a chroot. I do not have the mount command, nor df; /proc is not mounted; there is no /etc/mtab. Can I work this out?
[10:31] <BigRedS> aquarius: it's definitely a linux? Do you have a /sys?
[10:31] <aquarius> I do not
[10:31] <directhex> aquarius, yes. free -m, try to create that many megs in /tmp and see if it crashes :>
[10:31] <aquarius> lulz
[10:31] <BigRedS> (I don't know if /sys is useful yet, but I'll have a look if it sounds it)
[10:31] <BigRedS> haha
[10:31] <mgdm> aquarius: even if there's no mtab is there an fstab? I guess no...
[10:31] <aquarius> also free doesn't work because free: error while loading shared libraries: libproc-3.2.7.so: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
[10:31] <aquarius> there is no /etc/fstab
[10:32] <aquarius> BigRedS, no /sys. I am 93% sure that it's a linux. Ways to confirm this are invited ;)
[10:32] <aquarius> it may well be a rather old linux.
[10:32] <directhex> uname ?
[10:32] <bigcalm> uname showing anything?
[10:32] <aquarius> uname not available in jail shell
[10:32] <aquarius> I obviously tried that ;)
[10:33] <directhex> execute libc.
[10:33] <aquarius> directhex,  ?
[10:33] <directhex> directhex@barnabas:~$ /lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libc-2.17.so | grep Compiled
[10:33] <directhex> Compiled by GNU CC version 4.7.3.
[10:33] <directhex> Compiled on a Linux 3.8.8 system on 2013-04-18.
[10:34] <bigcalm> aquarius: man cp - see what the version is at the bottom of the page
[10:34] <aquarius> Compiled by GNU CC version 4.1.2 20071124 (Red Hat 4.1.2-42).
[10:34] <aquarius> Compiled on a Linux 2.6.9 system on 2008-12-05.
[10:34] <aquarius> \m/
[10:34] <aquarius> so it is Linux.
[10:34] <aquarius> also: ancient, as suspected ;)
[10:34] <bigcalm> Dead Rat 4, nice
[10:35] <directhex> 2.6.9 is rhel4, iirc?
[10:35] <popey> TheOpenSourcerer: pong
[10:35] <aquarius> OK, so, instead of asking the tmpfs question, here is my *actual* question.
[10:35] <mgdm> libc is not executable on this box. hmm.
[10:35] <aquarius> I want to share data between PHP scripts.
[10:35] <BigRedS> Haha, I was wondering why you cared about tmpfs
[10:35] <TheOpenSourcerer> popey got a minute?
[10:35] <popey> ya
[10:35] <aquarius> I cannot install any compiled thing.
[10:36] <aquarius> PHP is not compiled with the shared memory extension, so shmop_* doesn't exist.
[10:36] <aquarius> I do not want to write to the actual filesystem because it'd be rather slow.
[10:36] <mgdm> aquarius: does it have APC?
[10:36] <aquarius> APC is not installed.
[10:36] <aquarius> (and it needs compiling, so I can't install it.)
[10:37] <aquarius> My idea was: write to a tmpfs. I can't mount my own, but maybe I can use /tmp.
[10:37] <aquarius> But I am open to other ideas on how to do what I want.
[10:37] <brobostigon> .win 2
[10:37] <aquarius> "get non-lame hosting" is prohibited as an idea.
[10:37] <mgdm> that's probably the easiest way to do it
[10:38] <bigcalm> How quick does the script need to be for writing to a file system to be a bad idea?
[10:38] <BigRedS> on a shared host fs writes are going to be hilariously inconsistent, I'd have thought
[10:38] <aquarius> bigcalm, well... it's not really about that sort of quickness, it's that I plan to use the filesystem as a semaphore, sortafing
[10:38] <BigRedS> several billion sites each probably writing sessions to disk
[10:39] <bigcalm> Ug
[10:39] <aquarius> bigcalm, so I may do something egregiously horrid like hit the fs every second to see if there's a file there.
[10:39] <aquarius> poor man's inotify ;)
[10:39] <bigcalm> Right
[10:39] <BigRedS> aquarius: lots of our customers do much worse than that
[10:40] <bigcalm> How about `watch ls`? ;)
[10:40] <popey> watch -n 0.1 ls
[10:40] <aquarius> <?php while(true) { sleep(1); if (file_exists("/tmp/".$myid)) { do a thing }; }
[10:40] <BigRedS> chances of php being able to exec while there's no /proc =~ 0
[10:40] <aquarius> oooooooooooo I have watch.
[10:40] <BigRedS> (not that they're related)
[10:40] <mgdm> aquarius: do you have the 'apache_setenv' function? http://uk1.php.net/manual/en/function.apache-setenv.php
[10:40] <aquarius> can watch write to stdout?
[10:41] <aquarius> I've only ever run it interactively, and it clears the screen etc
[10:41] <aquarius> that is: can I run it and monitor it?
[10:41] <aquarius> haha setenv. I haven't tried that!
[10:41] <aquarius> how much space is there for envars?
[10:42] <mgdm> pass. :-)
[10:42] <popey> why not set a flag in a database?
[10:42] <aquarius> popey, because polling mysql to see if anything's changed is slow :(
[10:42] <bigcalm> sqlite?
[10:42] <aquarius> and it hammers the db something vicious.
[10:42] <bigcalm> Quick on reads
[10:42] <aquarius> hahahahaha sqlite. No sqlite.
[10:42] <popey> also, get non-lame hosting
[10:42] <popey> ☻
[10:43] <aquarius> popey, I believe I was clear about that ;-)
[10:43] <popey> still needed saying
[10:43] <aquarius> I agree
[10:43] <aquarius> but I can't face it.
[10:43] <aquarius> hence trying to do what I can with what I have :)
[10:43] <BigRedS> aquarius: there's huge space for environment vars, QUERY_STRING, for example, is an environment var and 'limited' to about 10K
[10:43] <aquarius> maybe just poll the DB every five seconds, I supopse.
[10:44] <aquarius> BigRedS, that's space for one envar, indeed. The point of this is: if someone changes object 12345, I would like other people viewing object 12345 to be informed of the change.
[10:44] <aquarius> BigRedS, to do that with envars, I'd need to add, say, envar OBJECT_12345=<timestamp>
[10:44] <aquarius> one envar per object that's changed.
[10:44] <aquarius> that's a *lot* of envar space ;)
[10:44] <brobostigon> liquid lunch i reckon. :)
[10:45] <BigRedS> yeah, I wasn't sure what you intended to do with them, but finally saw a question whose answer I sort-of knew :)
[10:45] <aquarius> hence debating doing it with files...
[10:45] <aquarius> maybe just hit the DB from a long-poll PHP script.
[10:45] <BigRedS> yeah, personally I'd do it with the fs. They do still sometimes surprise people by being fast
[10:45] <aquarius> I'd use firebase and do it all client side if they weren't quite expensive ;(
[10:45] <bigcalm> aquarius: if you could cope with a resolution of 5 seconds, that would ease things somewhat
[10:45] <aquarius> (also pusher, pulse, etc)
[10:46] <aquarius> bigcalm, yeah -- if you and I are next to one another in the pub, and I change a thing, and you see the chage five seconds later, that'd be OK, I think
[10:46] <aquarius> less would be nice, but not too much of a problem
[10:46] <bigcalm> How much is this to scale?
[10:46] <aquarius> maybe even put an index on the last-updated-id column
[10:46] <aquarius> bigcalm, well. Probably not very much
[10:46] <bigcalm> Is your user base in the thousands for instance?
[10:47] <aquarius> bigcalm, but... maybe it'll take off.
[10:47] <aquarius> if that happens, "get un-lame hosting" is more worth it ;)
[10:47] <bigcalm> If whatever this is takes off, move it to better hosting ;)
[10:47] <BigRedS> if( hosting_is_lame() ){ hack(); }else{ do_it_properly(); }
[10:48] <aquarius> exactly.
[10:48] <bigcalm> while (budget) { ... }
[10:48] <aquarius> more this: if (popular) { spend_money_on_good_hosting(); } else { dont_waste_money(); hack(); } :-)
[10:49] <aquarius> poll the db, huh?
[10:49] <aquarius> man, I hate polling.
[10:49] <aquarius> but then PHP hates shared anything. :)
[10:49] <aquarius> "install memcache", sig
[10:49] <aquarius> sigh
[10:50] <aquarius> so, we poll. For great justice.
[10:50] <BigRedS> aquarius: not sure if you're interested in favour-based hosting, but I can probably sort out something less-lame for free
[10:50] <aquarius> special table just for this? who's feeling DBAish today?
[10:50] <aquarius> BigRedS, the reason I'm using the super-lame-o hosting is that it's where kryogenix.org is :)
[10:51] <aquarius> and I'm not moving that.  I chose it for a reason :)
[10:51] <BigRedS> ahh yeah, I remember that :)
[10:51] <aquarius> but the offer is appreciated!
[10:55] <aquarius> Completely different question: given a package that I have installed, can I find out whether I got it from a PPA or from the Ubutnu archives?
[10:55] <mgdm> aquarius: err... apt-cache policy?
[10:55] <mgdm> wild guess
[10:56] <aquarius>         100 /var/lib/dpkg/status
[10:56] <aquarius> does that mean "it was in the Ubutnu archives"?
[10:57] <popey> yes, apt-cache policy says where you got it
[10:57] <popey> if that is the only line then you installed it manually from a deb or you removed the ppa it came from
[10:58] <aquarius> Ah!
[10:58] <popey> or you upgraded from a release where the package exists
[10:58] <aquarius> that is the bit of information I was missing :)
[10:58] <popey> i.e. it means it doesn't know the source
[10:58] <aquarius> sigh, so I have to install from the "unstable ppa". :(
[10:58] <popey> what package?
[10:58] <aquarius> polly
[10:59] <popey> they dont have a stable ppa?
[10:59] <aquarius> gotta love it when an app has an "unstable" ppa and a "daily" ppa an nothing else.
[10:59] <aquarius> and all other twitter apps are horrid. :(
[10:59]  * aquarius is having a frustrating computer day, today.
[10:59]  * popey only uses tweetdeck these days
[10:59] <popey> don't use any twitter "apps" other than on phones/tablets
[11:00] <aquarius> tweetdeck on the web?
[11:00] <popey> ya
[11:00] <aquarius> does it do proper notifications?
[11:00] <popey> https://web.tweetdeck.com/
[11:00] <popey> uhm
[11:00] <TheOpenSourcerer> hotot #ftw
[11:00] <popey> dunno
[11:00] <aquarius> hotot can't even sign in, for me.
[11:00] <aquarius> have filed a bug abotu it.
[11:00] <popey> doesn't look like it
[11:01] <TheOpenSourcerer> aquarius: Chage all the API version to 1.1
[11:01] <popey> but I have my desktop signed into twitter so i get those notifications anyway
[11:01] <popey> (some time later ☹ )
[11:01] <aquarius> popey, ya, I do too (so I get them twice... and the friends ones are Quite A Lot Later)
[11:01] <aquarius> I have hassled lord kenneth about the streaming api
[11:01] <TheOpenSourcerer> Sign-in, main feed, posting and profiles work
[11:01] <popey> oh, bitlbee broke for me today
[11:01] <popey> 12:00:51 ERROR: popey@Twitter Error during home_timeline call: Aborted.
[11:01] <aquarius> and I just get an aggrieved look. :)
[11:02] <TheOpenSourcerer> some of the filtered streams do not.
[11:02] <davmor2> aquarius, popey: you could turn it into a webapp you guys will know more about it than me but it looks a fairly straight forward .js file
[11:02] <popey> i dont like webapps
[11:02] <aquarius> "In order to use TweetDeck you must have a TweetDeck account"
[11:02] <aquarius> grr.
[11:02] <popey> Go to your happy place.
[11:03] <aquarius> I probably could make it a webapp, indeed.
[11:03] <davmor2> popey: but it would add the integration aquarius requires and I did say you could make not use it as a webapp :P
[11:03] <aquarius> I think writing shim webapps is a wrong policy, though. I would *like* tweetdeck to support the unity api...
[11:03] <directhex> unity should just be a webapp, clearly
[11:03] <bigcalm> Hehe
[11:04] <aquarius> ok, tweetdeck, that was pretty slick as a signup experience.
[11:05] <davmor2> aquarius: have you hit nirvana yet?
[11:05] <aquarius> no.
[11:05] <aquarius> today is unnirvanaish
[11:05] <aquarius> today is frustrating and annoying and makes me want to give up on computing.
[11:05] <TheOpenSourcerer> aquarius: https://twitter.com/opensourcerer/status/344772438216826880/photo/1
[11:06] <aquarius> screwed by twitter apps, by the chrome team, by php, and by unity. :(
[11:06] <mgdm> and by crap hosting. :P
[11:06] <aquarius> TheOpenSourcerer, srsly, hotot won't even sign in :)
[11:06] <aquarius> mgdm, well, that's the php bit ;)
[11:06] <TheOpenSourcerer> IT WILL IF YOU CHANGE THE SETTINGS LIKE THE PICTURE
[11:06] <bigcalm> o.O
[11:08] <directhex> hotot from ppa works
[11:08] <directhex> so i'm back on twitter
[11:08] <davmor2> aquarius: you must have some nirvana in your music collection slap that on it can at least sound like a nirvanaish day :D
[11:09] <Laney> was there some kind of twitter apocalypse?
[11:09] <aquarius> Laney, twitter shut off the 1.0 api
[11:09] <TheOpenSourcerer> API 1.0 became obsolote
[11:09] <TheOpenSourcerer> s\obsolete
[11:09] <aquarius> after a year of warning that they were going to do so
[11:09] <Laney> how unfortunate
[11:09] <aquarius> TheOpenSourcerer, oh, right, I get it. :)
[11:09] <TheOpenSourcerer> |o
[11:10] <aquarius> TheOpenSourcerer, does hotot integrate with ubuntu these days? it never used to
[11:10] <Laney> sounds like hotot in saucy is good but nobody updated stable releases
[11:10] <aquarius> I tried all the clients in the archive and they all suck :(
[11:10] <aquarius> although I am in a mood with the universe today, which might have something to do with it
[11:10] <TheOpenSourcerer> Hotot is the nicest I have come across in years.
[11:11] <aquarius> hotot is *pretty*. It doesn't integrate with unity at all, though.
[11:11] <bigcalm> Is it wrong to be excited by pie?
[11:11] <aquarius> or it didn't last time I tried it
[11:11]  * bigcalm counts down the hours to pie
[11:11] <TheOpenSourcerer> What does "integrate with unity" mean aquarius?
[11:11] <aquarius> and the qt version is madly broken
[11:11] <davmor2> bigcalm: you need to join #pie hmmm pie
[11:11] <bigcalm> Hehe
[11:11] <MooDoo> davmor2: CAKE!
[11:11] <bigcalm> T-7ish hours
[11:12]  * TheOpenSourcerer thinks food...
[11:12] <aquarius> TheOpenSourcerer, show proper notifications when something happens; place itself in the messaging menu for new messages; display a badge on its Launcher icon.
[11:12] <bigcalm> DJ Shadow is getting be through the day so far. Not sure what will pick up the afternoon though
[11:12] <aquarius> *real* integration would also include "use my twitter account which I have already taught Ubuntu about".
[11:12] <davmor2> MooDoo: only the pieious can appreciate pie, everyone enjoys cake ;)
[11:12] <TheOpenSourcerer> I get notifications, have a "badge" on the launcher.
[11:13] <TheOpenSourcerer> not in the messaging menu but I rarely use that anyway
[11:13] <aquarius> cool
[11:13] <aquarius> that's a start, then
[11:13]  * aquarius tries configuring hotot
[11:13]  * TheOpenSourcerer goes to lunch. Quickly.
[11:13] <MooDoo> davmor2: apple pie
[11:14] <davmor2> MooDoo: Bramley apple pie :P
[11:15] <aquarius> OK, same problem: hotot just goes to a blank grey screen when I click the big "sign in" arrow.
[11:15] <aquarius> even after making those changes.
[11:15]  * davmor2 pictures aquarius sat in the dark going ommmmmmmm ommmmmmmmm
[11:15] <aquarius> let me wipe the config and try again
[11:16] <aquarius> has not helped
[11:16] <aquarius> no terminal output
[11:16] <aquarius> no idea how to enable any debug output, because --help is ignored.
[11:16] <aquarius> I hate computers. :(
[11:17] <bigcalm> We all do
[11:17] <bigcalm> And yet we choose to base our work on them :)
[11:17] <bigcalm> Sadists, the lot of us
[11:18] <bigcalm> Or masochist, depending upon your point of view
[11:18]  * bigcalm whips some JavaScript into shape
[11:19] <directhex> aquarius, just install hotot from ppa
[11:20] <aquarius> !!!!!! tweetdeck removes blocked users from your timeline!
[11:20] <aquarius> like things are supposed to!
[11:20] <aquarius> hrm.
[11:20] <aquarius> lubotu3, shut up.
[11:20] <aquarius> directhex, yeah, yeah, ppa. I hate ppas :(
[11:20] <davmor2> aquarius: just use the twitter webapp :D  me ducks for the shelter
[11:20] <aquarius> on the other hand I am now installing newer polly
[11:20] <aquarius> since it turns out that there's only *ever* been the unstable and daily ppas
[11:21] <aquarius> so I must have had it installed from the unstable ppa, which was then disabled on upgrade to raring and I never re-enabled it.
[11:21] <bigcalm> They don't believe in stability
[11:21] <bigcalm> aquarius: join us at the Pie Factory tonight. Relax with pie
[11:22] <bigcalm> And ale, don't forget the ale
[11:22]  * mgdm is now remembering Weebl and Bob
[11:23]  * davmor2 waits for the sound of the explosion that is aquarius head when he finds out that polly is using api1.0
[11:23] <aquarius> davmor2, no, the newer version isn't; that's why I'm upgrading it
[11:24] <davmor2> aquarius: they only say that to make you upgrade ;)
[11:24] <aquarius> ok, polly works.
[11:24] <aquarius> I like tweetdeck, though, popey.
[11:25] <aquarius> I think I might do the chrome-install-as-app thing, though
[11:26] <bigcalm> davmor2: Hayley won't be joining us tonight. She's gone to see a school friend for a couple of days
[11:27] <aquarius> installed as app.
[11:27] <aquarius> goodbye, polly
[11:28] <bigcalm> Wish CSS, can one have "text-decoration: line-through" be a different colour from the text?
[11:28] <aquarius> tweetdeck removing blocked users from my timeline is a winning feature *all by itself*.
[11:28] <DJones> aquarius: I've been using polly for ages now, that seems to work without any issues
[11:28] <davmor2> aquarius: Nirvana reached
[11:28] <aquarius> bigcalm, no. However, you can do it with a nested element.
[11:29] <bigcalm> aquarius: sucky but doable. Cheers
[11:29] <aquarius> bigcalm, or with generated content if your lined-through element is block.
[11:29] <popey> \o/
[11:29] <bigcalm> aquarius: td
[11:29] <mgdm> aquarius: I thought that was the entire point of blocked users
[11:30] <bigcalm> If tr is the outer, td can be the inner, I hope
[11:30] <aquarius> mgdm, indeed it is. But every twitter client in the universe doesn't remove tweets you've already received from the blocked user. You have to "clear the cache" and then refetch
[11:30] <mgdm> Ahhh
[11:30] <mgdm> I've wondered about that recently, having gone on a big unfollowing purge
[11:30] <aquarius> which screws you completely if you've blocked a lot of recent users, because when you clear the cache and refetch, you don't get any tweets back.
[11:31] <aquarius> bigcalm, erm...only if you've only got one td inside th tr, right>?
[11:31] <mgdm> heh
[11:31] <mgdm> I tend not to block users
[11:31] <bigcalm> aquarius: about to find out :)
[11:31] <mgdm> though if I could block all of those *_borat accounts in one shot, I would
[11:31] <bigcalm> Aww
[11:32] <davmor2> mgdm: that's easy, you see the button that says logout ;)
[11:32] <aquarius> bigcalm, my point is: you do <span><span>text here</span></span> and span { color: black; } span span { color: red; text-decoration: line-through }
[11:32] <aquarius> if you use the tr as your top element, then you'll have to set the base text colour for everything in the tr
[11:33] <aquarius> actually, no, ignore me, that's stupid, that won't work
[11:33] <aquarius> other way around
[11:33] <bigcalm> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/4364263/css-line-through-with-a-color-different-from-the-text-color
[11:33] <aquarius> span { color: red; text-decoration: line-through; } span span { color: black; }
[11:34] <aquarius> so... you can do it with tr and td, but you'll have to set empty text decoration on all tds other than the one you care about.
[11:34] <bigcalm> I'm hoping to just use the tr and td elements that are going to be there anyway
[11:34] <bigcalm> Indeed
[11:34] <bigcalm> Which is what I'm doing anyway
[11:34] <bigcalm> It's a bit of fun this css lark
[11:45] <BigRedS> you have a peculiar idea of 'fun'
[11:45] <bigcalm> http://paste.ubuntu.com/5757955/ - I'm sure it could be optimised, but it works. Just by setting .active or .acknowledged on the tr
[11:47] <bigcalm> It's actually quite readable and yet struck through
[11:47] <bigcalm> I'm happy :)
[11:48]  * BigRedS shakes his head at '!important'
[11:48] <bigcalm> :D
[11:49] <bigcalm> I didn't want to
[11:49] <bigcalm> I guess I could just remove the stripped class from the table as it won't be visible anyway
[11:49] <BigRedS> Haha, it's less its presence in your code that irks me, and more it being in the CSS spec
[11:50] <AlanBell> it is a "now you have two problems" kind of solution
[11:50]  * davmor2 just had a weird call with virgin support where I was providing support to the support guy for starting to use ubuntu hmmmmmm different, got my issue resolved too so that was a win :)
[11:50] <bigcalm> Humm, though once an alarm has been acknowledged, the hover state actually becomes useful
[11:50] <BigRedS> are you writing a nagios interface?
[11:51] <bigcalm> Heh, na. I should read up about nagios some day
[11:51] <BigRedS> haha, you're writing a nagios clone instead? :)
[11:51] <davmor2> bigcalm: just talk to adam long enough till he does it for you ;)
[11:52] <bigcalm> BigRedS: oh my no. This system happens to have alarms, that's all :)
[11:52] <bigcalm> davmor2: I wonder if we'll see Chris with a hair cut tonight
[11:52] <davmor2> doubt it
[11:54] <BigRedS> bigcalm: ah, yeah, I forgot there was a huge other selection of things that aren't nagios :)
[11:54] <BigRedS> I've been avoiding writing an API for our Nagios 1 install for weeks now, but I'm going to have to do it soon so I keep thinking about it
[11:54] <BigRedS> and, hence, the term 'ack' has nothing to do with tcp in my mind now
[12:02] <bigcalm> I keep forgetting. In jQuery, how do I select all elements that start with a given string?
[12:03] <bigcalm> $('#foo_*') ?
[12:06] <bigcalm> $('tr[id^=foo]')
[12:18] <bigcalm> Humf. Using jQuery to check/uncheck a checkbox doesn't in turn call onchange from the HTML
[12:20] <bigcalm> Oooh, people are asking me what I want for my b'day. Time to throw some stuff onto an amazon wishlist
[12:21] <bigcalm> Would it be wrong to put this on the list? http://www.writeherekitenow.co.uk/acatalog/Sailor-Yosegi-Fountain-Pen.html
[12:23] <Gary> ooo pricey pens
[12:23] <bigcalm> Me like fountain pens
[12:23] <Gary> me too
[12:23] <bigcalm> The same pen is available on eBay for far less: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SAILOR-HAKONE-YOSEGI-ZAIKU-WOODEN-ART-UNIQUE-FOUNTAIN-PEN-GORGEOUS-COLLECTION-/170995053962?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27d019758a
[12:24] <Gary> but... my parker was thirty quid and thats enough
[12:24] <bigcalm> I just don't know if I trust going to eBay for such an item
[12:24] <bigcalm> Oh, my cheapest pen was about 50 quid I think. But that's me :)
[12:25] <bigcalm> Tell a like, I have a $20 noodler. But it's pants
[12:25] <Gary> I'd love to have some nicer ones, but well, ouch
[12:25] <bigcalm> s/like/lie
[12:26] <christel> what on earth is a "noodler"
[12:27] <bigcalm> Noodler is a manufacturer. This is the Ahab: http://www.purepens.co.uk/acatalog/Ahab-Fountain-Pens-.html
[12:27] <christel> aha
[12:27] <bigcalm> Of which, I have the Lapis Inferno on that page
[12:28] <bigcalm> What's special about that pen is the nib is _very_ flexible and allows for a great variance in line width
[12:28] <redtape|renegade> OT | Here's this weeks blog on science & open source .. [bye for now] http://phylogenomics.blogspot.com/2013/06/better-late-than-never-video-interview.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+TheTreeOfLife+%28The+Tree+of+Life%29&utm_content=My+Yahoo
[12:28]  * bigcalm scribbles on chrisccoulson
[12:28] <bigcalm> Oops
[12:28]  * bigcalm scribbles on christel
[12:28] <christel> i er... i can't remember when i last used a pen
[12:28] <christel> :D
[12:29] <Gary> I have the "Parker Urban Premium Fountain Pen - Ebony" on this page - http://www.purepens.co.uk/acatalog/Parker-Urban-Premium-Fountain-Pens.html
[12:29] <Gary> it's pretty good
[12:29] <Gary> christel, I pretty much use it for writing "3/10, must try harder" on company reports
[12:30] <christel> hehe
[12:30] <mgdm> the cheapest pen I have is the Bic knockoff I accidentally took home from work
[12:30] <bigcalm> Oooh, that puts me in mind for a retractable Lamy
[12:30] <bigcalm> Heh
[12:30] <RadiumCat> dialog 3?
[12:30] <RadiumCat> its dead expensive!
[12:31] <RadiumCat> sorry fpr butting in
[12:31] <RadiumCat> for*
[12:35] <mgdm> It's IRC. That's basically what it's for. :-)
[12:36] <RadiumCat> :)
[12:58] <bigcalm> Postponing lunch until after 2pm, I have avoided the temptation of going to the chippy. But what will I tempt myself with instead?
[13:00] <mungbean> cookies
[13:00] <mungbean> with chips on
[13:00] <mungbean> and no cookie
[13:00] <mgdm> and more chips
[13:01] <bigcalm> I'm going to the pie factory tonight. Trying to save myself
[13:01] <bigcalm> That and I'm trying to resume my weight loss
[13:02] <bigcalm> Maybe I'll resume the weight loss tomorrow
[13:03]  * mgdm got a steak sandwich for lunch and is now in a meat coma
[13:03] <mungbean> yum
[13:04] <christel> i just had breakfast, i'm not quite on track today
[13:04] <bigcalm> Tsk :P
[13:05] <christel> tsk indeed, i am having serious time management problems lately!
[13:05] <christel> :)
[13:07] <bigcalm> I'm not one to speak. I often forget to have lunch
[13:07]  * bigcalm slithers off to Tesco
[13:11] <MooDoo> christel: I'm just taking lumch now and I finish work at 4:30
[13:12] <christel> i am not sure where i went wrong today, i got up at 7, made breakfast+packed lunch for the boys, got them ready, waved them goodbye, got ready and started my work and stressed about a deadline and finally got around to grab a bowl of cereal and a coffee at 1.30
[13:12] <Monotoko> I finish work at 18:00 :(
[13:14]  * aquarius , with a depressing sense of inevitability, binds ctrl+shift+u to kill compiz and restart unity. Roll on mir.
[13:15] <MooDoo> christel: sounds familiar apart from the up at 7 part,  would be a luxury in our house lol
[13:15] <mungbean> gala has been performing lovely for me, don't miss cimpoz
[13:18] <christel> MooDoo: aww! the boy wonder is a good sleeper, he has to be woken up every morning (apart from sundays when i let him sleep until he gets up, which is more like 11 o clock)
[13:18] <christel> i suspect that number 2 will be the complete opposite mind
[13:19] <mungbean> both my kids are sleeping "OK"
[13:19] <MooDoo> christel: my wife has to be a at work for 7 so we need everyone up at 6 we feel so bad for waking them up to take them to mamas
[13:19] <mungbean> if OK is 5.30 start for the youngling
[13:19] <christel> MooDoo: auchies!
[13:20] <MooDoo> christel: pain but it's got to be done, what you do for your job?
[13:20] <AlanBell> aquarius: do you know if mir will be on the desktop in saucy?
[13:21] <AlanBell> the Mir weekly updates are a bit hard to read
[13:21] <aquarius> AlanBell, as I understand it, there will be a phone-UI mir-backed session *available* to you. It will not be default, but you can choose to use it instead.
[13:21] <aquarius> I may be wrong about this, but that's what I believe to be the case.
[13:21] <christel> MooDoo: i'm a medical translator
[13:21] <aquarius> popey, is that correct?
[13:21] <christel> (clinical trial data primarily)
[13:21] <Gary> christel, did the "other" job not work out for you then?
[13:22] <MooDoo> ah cool
[13:22] <popey> yes
[13:22] <popey> thats the plan
[13:22] <mungbean> christel: do you use openclinica?
[13:22] <AlanBell> hmm, so not a desktop UI Mir then?
[13:22] <aquarius> I certainly plan to use it. my session hangs all the blasted time and I have to restart unity from a virtual console. Hence binding the keystroke.
[13:22] <popey> how do you mean "desktop UI Mir"?
[13:23] <christel> Gary: "other" job? :)
[13:23] <christel> mungbean: no, some of my clients may use it for data capture
[13:23] <Gary> the one you built the dungeon for
[13:23] <christel> Gary: i think that was just one of your fantasies dearest
[13:23] <AlanBell> popey: well I guess one with a sidebar and dash and top panel
[13:23] <Gary> oh, was it, damnit
[13:23] <aquarius> AlanBell, again as I understand it, the phone Unity and the desktop Unity are not the same codebase yet; the phone Unity is being moved to Mir for 13.10. By 14.04 they will all be the same codebase hooray, but not by 13.10.
[13:24] <ali1234> so in other words 14.04 will be a shambles of untested code
[13:24] <AlanBell> rather than a swipe and move about thing (which is exactly the same as the desktop in marketing only)
[13:24] <christel> MooDoo: it's not very cool tbf, but i make about the same in two months doing this as i did in a year when working for the nhs so i shan't complain too much :)
[13:25] <MooDoo> christel: no you shoudln't, need a tea slave?
[13:25] <christel> i dont drink tea! but if you make a mean cup of coffee...
[13:25] <aquarius> AlanBell, um, the phone has a sidebar, and a top panel, and a Dash.
[13:26] <aquarius> in the same places as normal. It's Unity.
[13:26] <AlanBell> yes, but they move out of the way
[13:26] <mungbean> glad that the "favourite" for the dr who role may not be the real favourite
[13:26] <AlanBell> you have to swipe in from outside the screen to see them don't you?
[13:26] <ali1234> more importantly the phone system can only run Qt applications
[13:26] <aquarius> No. The top panel is there always, unless an app goes fullscreen, which is exactly the same as desktop Unity.
[13:27] <ali1234> specifically only QML ones at that
[13:27] <ali1234> just because it looks the same as desktop unity does not mean it is actually achieving functional convergence
[13:28] <aquarius> I do not know whether the Launcher will be able to be locked in place; I would hope that it would, certainly. However, this sort of thing is exactly why it's being landed early, and not as the default, so it can be tested.
[13:28] <aquarius> ali1234, are you looking to contribute here or just shout at me about things?
[13:28] <AlanBell> well it doesn't look the same, the launcher swipe in and up/down gesture looks completely different to the click an icon desktop launcher
[13:28] <ali1234> aquarius: i'm not looking to do either
[13:29] <aquarius> ali1234, xmir is precisely to allow non-QML apps. I do not know whether that'll be available in 13.10; that, again, is precisely why this stuff is arriving at a very early stage in its development.
[13:29]  * AlanBell is simply trying to figure out if I am going to have Mir on my laptop in this cycle or the next or the one after
[13:30] <aquarius> AlanBell, perhaps I'm not following you here. The Launcher is a left-hand column full of icon buttons -- that's the same on the phone and the desktop. On the phone you have to swipe to show it, because of screen size -- I would certainly expect that the Launcher shows all the time on a larger screen, although I do not know whether that will be settable in the early version in 13.10. Clicking with a mouse on a
[13:30] <aquarius> Launcher icon, and tapping with a finger on a  Launcher icon, are the same gesture.
[13:31] <ali1234> i thought the idea was that this would be finished for 14.04?
[13:31] <ali1234> you're saying it won't be released until 14.04 - i don't call that "early"
[13:31] <aquarius> I do not know the details of what's happening here. AlanBell asked about saucy, and I answered.
[13:31] <ali1234> i call that "at the very last possible opportunity"
[13:33] <aquarius> it's being released in 13.10, as just explained.
[13:33] <ali1234> you just said that desktop unity will not be the same codebase until after 13.10
[13:33] <directhex> by 14.04 i need to have migrated all our staff back away from ubuntu and onto debian :/
[13:33] <davmor2> AlanBell: the plan is to have mir and unity 8 installable but not the default desktop for pc's, it will be the default on phones/tablets as I understand it
[13:34] <davmor2> AlanBell: not sure if it got answered I'm still playing catchup
[13:34] <aquarius> ali1234, right. There are currently differences, which are being reconciled.
[13:34] <ali1234> i was under the impression that in 14.04 the default desktop will be the same code base as the phone and it will all run on mir
[13:35] <davmor2> ali1234: indeed that is no saucy thought which was AlanBell 's question :)
[13:35] <AlanBell> aquarius: ok, I was confused as it looks more like a drag on the phone than a click
[13:35] <davmor2> s/no/not
[13:36] <aquarius> AlanBell, you can drag your finger up and down the Launcher on the phone, and in most cases that's the easiest way to do it on the phone, but you are still allowed to just tap on the icon you want, and that's exactly the same with a mouse :)
[13:36] <AlanBell> ok
[13:36] <popey> AlanBell: have you played with the phone yet?
[13:37]  * popey will bring one along when we have lunch
[13:37] <AlanBell> popey: no, don't think the galaxy s2 port is done
[13:37] <aquarius> AlanBell, the desktop uses press-and-hold-and-drag-up-and-down as a "rearrange the icons on the Launcher" gesture, rather than as a "select different items" gesture.
[13:37] <aquarius> AlanBell, but that does not preclude just tapping. :)
[13:37] <ali1234> you can't edge swipe on a desktop
[13:38] <davmor2> AlanBell: there is a port for the s2 I think but it might be out of date you are much better off with a phablet flash supported device :)
[13:38] <ali1234> and that powers nearly everything in the phone
[13:38] <popey> but the desktop has a keyboard
[13:38] <popey> so keyboard shortcuts can map to swipe gestures
[13:38] <AlanBell> indeed, edge swipe was confusing me, but I have only seen marketing videos of it really
[13:38] <AlanBell> swipe from right is alt-tab I think on the phone
[13:39] <davmor2> ali1234: you could originally if you remember the launcher autohid on the first release and everyone hated it :P
[13:39] <AlanBell> or alt+` perhaps
[13:39] <popey> nah, it didnt autohide, it dodge-hid didn't it?
[13:39] <ali1234> davmor2: it was not revealed by edge swipe
[13:39] <AlanBell> or is it old style window switcher alt-tab rather than app switcher
[13:40] <davmor2> ali1234: it was revealed by going to the edge of a screen with the mouse which is as close as you could get at the time to an edge swipe
[13:40] <ali1234> it's as close as a PC can ever get
[13:42] <popey> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Devices/i9100 interesting... galaxy s 2
[13:42] <AlanBell> yeah, just looking at that now
[13:42] <AlanBell> no calls :(
[13:42] <davmor2> popey: ah you are right dodge was the default auto was the secondary
[13:44] <AlanBell> and the phone isn't using Mir yet?
[13:45] <popey> not yet
[13:45] <popey> this week we are switching from raring to saucy on the phone
[13:45] <popey> and a container flip is happening too
[13:45] <ali1234> will it still use surface flinger or use the propietary graphics drivers directly?
[13:45] <popey> then i believe we move to mir
[13:45] <popey> yes, currently surface flinger
[13:46] <ali1234> no, after the mir switch?
[13:46] <popey> oh, sorry, misready.
[13:46] <popey> -y
[13:46] <popey> not sure tbh
[13:46] <ali1234> because if the later it will make porting significantly harder
[13:46] <popey> the container flip will get us to that mythical "one kernel for everything" that mark talks about a lot
[13:46] <ali1234> yeah that will also make porting much harder
[13:47] <ali1234> since all the android drivers and patches everyone relies on to make it work... won't work
[13:47] <ali1234> basically any advantage gained from libhybris will disappear
[13:47] <popey> yeah, it's going to be "challenging"
[13:47] <ali1234> you'll be right back to where porters have been since the start: unable to get open source drivers, unable to make the proprietary ones work in an acceptable way without using an ancient kernel
[13:49] <directhex> lots of people are amused at the borging of libhybris by canonical
[13:49] <directhex> especially the wayland devs who wrote it in the first place
[13:49] <ali1234> "one kernel for everything" isn't really possible on arm anyway, not yet
[13:50] <ali1234> borging?
[13:50] <ali1234> also, i wouldn't describe stskeeps as "amused"
[13:50] <ali1234> quite the opposite really
[13:54] <ali1234> i am quite worried that the default desktop of the next LTS release will not go through any production testing at all
[13:55] <ali1234> not because i'll have to use it, but because of what it says about the commitment to quality in the rest of the distro
[14:39]  * bigcalm returns from Tesco
[14:39] <bigcalm> Having avoided the chippy, I didn't manage to avoid KFC or buying 12 assorted Krispy Kreme doughnuts from Tesco
[14:40]  * bigcalm gurgles
[14:40]  * popey is out for curry tonight
[14:40]  * brobostigon returns from his liguid lunch
[14:42] <bigcalm> 1h40m lunch, whoopsie
[14:42] <bigcalm> I'd feel bad if I didn't work all hours
[14:42] <mungbean> i was missold PPI back in 1999, do i still have case?
[14:43] <bigcalm> http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=2220395
[14:44] <bigcalm> 14 years ago, might be pushing it, but good luck
[14:45] <mungbean> i got made redundant , and they didn't pay
[14:45] <mungbean> which was the point of the PPI
[14:53] <neuro> anyone know who Peter Cannon is?
[14:53] <mungbean> an explosive character
[14:54] <neuro> seriously
[14:54] <BigRedS> hohoho
[14:54] <mungbean> Peter H. Cannon (b. 1951 in California) is an H. P. Lovecraft scholar and an author of Cthulhu Mythos fiction
[14:54] <mungbean> that one?
[14:54] <neuro> *sigh*
[14:54] <neuro> :)
[14:54] <neuro> i got a linkedin ping from them
[14:55] <mungbean> http://www.cannon-linux.co.uk/
[14:55] <mungbean> I’m currently a member of a number of Linux based mailing lists and Forums and can be found on freenode.net I am Married with twin daughters.
[14:56] <mungbean> maybe on here right now
[14:56] <neuro> i kind of assumed they'd be in here, but it would have been nice to get told what their nick was
[14:56] <davmor2> neuro: Look at tdtrs
[14:56] <neuro> this is why blasting out automated linkedin connect requests annoys me
[14:56] <neuro> tdtrs?
[14:57] <davmor2> neuro: the dick turpin road show
[14:57] <neuro> doesn't really make me any the wiser, but ta :)
[14:57] <davmor2> neuro: he will be in the #tdtrs channel as dick_turpin
[14:57] <neuro> ah ok
[14:58] <neuro> guess that means i don't know them
[14:58] <davmor2> neuro: he was a helper at LRL's a part time member of wolves lug
[14:58] <neuro> *reject*
[14:58] <bigcalm> :D
[14:58] <neuro> nothing personal
[14:59] <neuro> i just don't connect to people i don't know on facebook or linkedin
[14:59] <popey> how can you not know Peter Cannon? ☻
[14:59] <neuro> maybe i just haven't been looking closely enough
[14:59] <neuro> i don't know *everyone* in the whole community :)
[14:59] <dwatkins> I get loads of random requests on Facebook, it strikes me as a strange way to try and meet people.
[14:59] <davmor2> how I wish I was neuro right now :D
[14:59] <neuro> lol
[14:59] <popey> hah
[15:00] <ali1234> i get random linked in requests all the time
[15:01] <ali1234> i just assumed they are spammers
[15:01] <ali1234> same on g+
[15:01] <ali1234> i don't even check facebook any more
[15:01]  * popey deleted his linkedin account
[15:01] <neuro> i usually look at the profile if they're not blatantly spamming or recruiting
[15:01] <popey> much better
[15:01] <neuro> hehe
[15:01] <davmor2> popey: Pete is currently going out of his way to wind me up at the moment so I've taken to ignoring him for now :)
[15:01] <neuro> it's damn useful when you're job hunting
[15:01] <ali1234> yeah they're usually not blatant at all
[15:01] <neuro> which i was for the bulk of the last year
[15:01] <popey> yeah, sabdfl looked me up on linkedin ㋛
[15:01] <ali1234> i figure they are just trying to create legit looking accounts and the spamming will come later
[15:01]  * neuro hugs his new job
[15:01] <SuperMatt> I got asked by a recruiter once why I wasn't on linked in.
[15:02] <SuperMatt> I responsed with "did you see the news today?"
[15:02] <SuperMatt> "yup"
[15:02] <neuro> did you tell them "go away, recruiter scum"
[15:02] <neuro> oh was this just after the breach
[15:02] <SuperMatt> "They've been hacked. I'm not going linked in any time soon"
[15:02] <neuro> and were they like "they've been WHAT?!"
[15:02] <ali1234> people keep recommending me on linked in for stuff i have no idea about
[15:03] <ali1234> someone recommended me for "microsoft office and excel"
[15:03] <neuro> I CAN DO THAT
[15:03] <mungbean> linkedin is lame and a privacy issue but somehow most of us accept it
[15:03] <mgdm> I recommended someone I know for 'Pies'
[15:03] <neuro> I CAN DO MICROSOFT
[15:03] <neuro> lol, class
[15:03] <ali1234> well yeah.
[15:03] <mgdm> since then 4 others have followed suit
[15:03] <SuperMatt> linked in is also no good for people like me. I do Linux. My knowledge speaks for itself.
[15:03] <neuro> we should recommend everyone we know for various foodstuffs
[15:03] <mgdm> SuperMatt: I don't follow the logic there, but suit yourself :-)
[15:04] <neuro> mgdm: dammit, did you remove the pie recommendations?
[15:04] <SuperMatt> well... linked in is for people who need to rely on word of mouth for proof of their compitence.
[15:04] <neuro> i was going to add another for you :)
[15:04] <mungbean> SuperMatt: my ex-PHB pre-judged people by the quality of their linked prof
[15:04] <mungbean> good profile = great guy
[15:04] <neuro> SuperMatt: it's just a glorified CV, do you not do CVs either?
[15:04] <ali1234> SuperMatt: i don't see your point. do you have certifications then?
[15:04] <SuperMatt> I do
[15:04] <SuperMatt> I'm an RHCSA
[15:04] <neuro> oh dear :)
[15:04] <neuro> BEGONE, HEATHEN!
[15:05] <ali1234> oh.
[15:05] <SuperMatt> hahaha
[15:05] <ali1234> well, personally i don't think much of certifications
[15:05] <neuro> me either
[15:05] <SuperMatt> I think a lot of them if they actually do mean something
[15:05] <ali1234> given what they cost, and what the example tests look like
[15:05] <mungbean> rhce is worthwhile
[15:05] <neuro> i've managed to get by on an NT4 MCSE and a heavily discounted LPIC-1 from 2004
[15:05] <ali1234> i can only speak for the ubuntu ones cos those are the only ones i looked at
[15:05] <SuperMatt> I was the only person at my last place to pass their RHCSA, and I'd used linux the least
[15:05] <mungbean> as a baseline for linux admins
[15:05] <ali1234> but it basically looks like "keep paying until you pass the test"
[15:06] <mungbean> yes, i like to ask how many times they took it
[15:06] <neuro> mungbean: s/linux/SysV/
[15:06] <SuperMatt> first time baby!
[15:06] <mungbean> it's not a hard test, really
[15:06] <SuperMatt> I passed by 1 mark out of 300
[15:06] <mungbean> but i experienced a "bug"/weird issue
[15:06] <SuperMatt> 270 is the pass mark
[15:06] <SuperMatt> no wait
[15:06] <SuperMatt> 210
[15:06] <mungbean> and lost 20 mins on it
[15:06] <SuperMatt> and I got 211
[15:07] <ali1234> are there certs for developers?
[15:07] <ali1234> other than microsoft ones that is
[15:07] <mungbean> github
[15:07] <ali1234> github?
[15:07] <neuro> github
[15:07] <SuperMatt> I'm not sure how that'd wotk though, considering there are a number of languages
[15:08] <ali1234> well it would probably be like for Qt
[15:08] <mungbean> developers need a portfoilo of work
[15:08] <SuperMatt> I could chose to code entirely in whitespace
[15:08] <ali1234> or something like that
[15:08] <mgdm> neuro: No - I endorsed someone else for it, not sure you'd know them - though I have been endorsed for 'whisky', myself :-)
[15:08] <mungbean> sysadmins need experience or proven ability
[15:08] <ali1234> if you have a portfolio of work but can't show it to anyone, then linked in recommendations from clients are pretty good
[15:08] <neuro> developers can't always demonstrate a portfolio of work
[15:08] <neuro> for sysadmins it's even harder
[15:09] <mgdm> Word of mouth is not a bad way to have your competence proven, I don't think
[15:09] <neuro> "yeah sure you can ssh into the cluster to check out my work, oh wait, i don't work there"
[15:09] <mgdm> if people say you're good at your job, that counts for something, surely
[15:09] <SuperMatt> it does
[15:09] <ali1234> well it depends who those people are of course
[15:10] <ali1234> if they have huge linked in profiles with a tonne of recommendations too, then that's all well and good
[15:10] <SuperMatt> here's the other thing: no *other* sysadmin I know uses linked in
[15:10] <neuro> "yeah sure look at my ops scripts and recipes on github, oh wait, they're in a private organisation's repos"
[15:10] <mungbean> what if you left because they didn't appreciate good work
[15:10] <neuro> SuperMatt: i know plenty of sysadmins who use linkedin
[15:10] <SuperMatt> I don't :S
[15:10]  * mungbean does but isn't sure why
[15:11] <ali1234> i should probaby do something with my linked in profile
[15:11] <neuro> if you think it's going to be useful to you, then do
[15:11] <neuro> if you can't see the point, then do a popey and delete it
[15:12] <ali1234> thing is, i can see the point, i just hate writing stuff about myself
[15:12] <neuro> have fun with it
[15:12] <mungbean> i have a good CV but nothing comes of it on the offchance
[15:12] <SuperMatt> but surely other people write about you?
[15:12] <ali1234> fun?
[15:12] <mungbean> you still have to put yourself out there
[15:12] <SuperMatt> I thought that was the idea of linked in
[15:12] <SuperMatt> oh right
[15:12] <mungbean> well i get a couple of requestss from agencies occasionally
[15:12] <mungbean> sometimes they are off the mark
[15:12] <mungbean> i.e network admin
[15:13] <neuro> i had some fun with mine: http://uk.linkedin.com/in/neuro/
[15:13] <mungbean> they are just spamming people who appeared in the search results
[15:13] <neuro> i've had quite a few positive comments about going that way
[15:13] <SuperMatt> vanity urls + professional site != good idea
[15:13] <neuro> i just haven't updated it in a while
[15:13] <neuro> "vanity urls"?
[15:14] <SuperMatt> the neuro part of the url
[15:14] <neuro> at Linden Lab, almost everyone from the receiptionist to the CEO called me neuro
[15:14] <SuperMatt> because I can imagine someone putting down something like "butthunter1983"
[15:14] <neuro> well that's their own problem
[15:14] <SuperMatt> yarr
[15:15] <ali1234> you worked at linden?
[15:15] <SuperMatt> many people aren't very intelligent
[15:15] <mungbean> i read the line as one from a song "i'm a lover, i'm a freak, i'm a sysadmin, i'm a geek"
[15:15] <neuro> ali1234: yup
[15:15] <neuro> ali1234: that's why i said it :)
[15:16] <ali1234> i never "got" SL but technically it's pretty cool
[15:16] <neuro> it is
[15:16] <neuro> i never got it either to be honest
[15:16] <neuro> but Rosedale's vision was pretty compelling
[15:16] <neuro> and it was a fantastic environment to work in
[15:17] <ali1234> if only they had made everything out of cubes instead of that crazy modelling system...
[15:17] <neuro> everything does start with a cube at some point
[15:17] <neuro> but the model system in place now is pretty advanced
[15:18] <ali1234> i was refering to minecraft, which is far far easier for people to pick up and build with
[15:18] <neuro> oic
[15:18] <neuro> well only if you're in the sandbox mode where you have ALL THE THINGS to start with
[15:18] <neuro> and it's a different ecosystem entirely
[15:19] <ali1234> i'm not sure it is - for the users
[15:19] <neuro> can you easily buy Stuff in minecraft?
[15:19] <ali1234> hmm... someone made minecraft with bitcoin economy actually
[15:19] <neuro> "someone" :)
[15:19] <neuro> that sounds trustworthy
[15:20] <neuro> also by default you don't get eaten at night in SL
[15:20] <mungbean> scientific linux?
[15:20] <mungbean> sausage land?
[15:20] <neuro> my first "night" in SL, I was admiring the stars and flying around loving it
[15:20] <neuro> mungbean: Second Life, you mung
[15:20] <mungbean> ah, is that still going?
[15:20] <neuro> after my first "night" in minecraft, I had to change my underwear
[15:21] <mungbean> because you had been playing for 14hrs straight
[15:21] <neuro> mungbean: yup
[15:21] <directhex> i'm not creative enough to come up with my own grand projects in minecraft
[15:22] <ali1234> "sausage land" isn't that far from the truth :)
[15:22] <neuro> well ...
[15:22] <directhex> Second Yiff
[15:22] <neuro> let's not go down this road :)
[15:23] <directhex> as a mono maintainer, i approve of SL
[15:23] <neuro> Babbage Linden would approve
[15:23] <neuro> if he still worked there
[15:23] <neuro> he's a mental Facebooker now
[15:24] <Monotoko> you can fly in SL?
[15:24] <neuro> um, yeah
[15:25] <neuro> although i used to go old school and use a Huey
[15:25] <neuro> http://www.flickr.com/photos/neuro/2964750477/
[18:48] <shrik> does anyone use liferea?
[18:51] <MartijnVdS> Is that still a thing?
[18:53] <daftykins> hrmm what would you do with a spare SSD?
[18:53] <daftykins> i got given a 128GB mSATA SSD
[18:53] <MartijnVdS> daftykins: stress-test
[18:53] <MartijnVdS> daftykins: swap
[18:53] <daftykins> i've already got ones as my OS drive in all bar my file server
[18:53] <DJones> daftykins: Donate it to me :)
[18:54] <daftykins> and i'm not sure a file server would benefit from one :D
[18:54] <daftykins> DJones: i don't even know you :(
[18:54] <DJones> Ah well, worth a try
[18:54] <daftykins> :D
[18:54] <ali1234> i would send it to me
[18:55] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: that would be an expensive way to give it to yourself
[18:55] <daftykins> XD
[18:56] <ali1234> i would put it in an external case probably
[18:56] <ali1234> probably easier to just buy a 128mb flashdrive tho
[18:56] <ali1234> *gb
[18:56] <daftykins> this is what i'm thinking
[18:56] <awilkins> My largest SSD sits in a SATA caddy and carries my work environemtn
[18:56] <daftykins> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/mSATA-SSD-External-Drive-USB-3-0-Case-/290874851829?pt=US_Drive_Enclosures_Docks&hash=item43b97e01f5
[18:56] <ali1234> i don't like carrying around hard drives, they break too easily
[18:57] <awilkins> Boot it from eSATA at work, carry it home and put it in the 5 1/4 inch bay and mount the volume at home
[18:57] <daftykins> not quite the cheapest and from the US, but it seems fun
[18:57] <awilkins> Definitely more robust than spinning rust
[18:57] <awilkins> Went through 2 or 3 2.5" hard drives before I got an SSD because I was frustrated with them breaking
[18:57] <daftykins> heh - in a laptop?
[18:58] <MartijnVdS> I wish PCI floppy controllers existed
[18:58] <awilkins> Nah, external cases
[18:58] <MartijnVdS> so I could put my 5.25" floppy drive in my Haswell PC
[18:58] <daftykins> ah
[18:58] <awilkins> Spinning rust also kept burning out the controllers in the external cases
[18:58] <awilkins> SSDs have much lower power requirements, the controllers last
[18:58] <daftykins> i keep a 3.5" floppy drive in my server. i use it to infrequently i have to do several reads before it remagnetises - or whatever happens that it takes a while to work
[18:59] <awilkins> Kept getting to the point where the drive would spin up, stop, spin up, stop. New case, problem fixed.
[18:59] <daftykins> yeah i keep getting that
[18:59] <awilkins> MartijnVdS, You can get USB floppies
[18:59] <daftykins> you hear the repeated click-click of the HDDs trying to power up
[18:59] <MartijnVdS> awilkins: not 5.25"
[18:59] <ali1234> i have a usb floppy
[18:59] <awilkins> MartijnVdS, Ah, true
[18:59] <ali1234> it sucks. if the disk has 1 bad sector it won't read it at all
[19:00] <awilkins> Floppies are awful
[19:00] <ali1234> yes, they are. but with a real floppy drive you can recover the data
[19:00] <awilkins> I can't believe they still issue USB floppy drives with the laptops at work
[19:00] <daftykins> !
[19:00] <ali1234> floppies are basically just hard drives with removable platters anyway
[19:00] <MartijnVdS> awilkins: some countries still accept tax forms/something on 3.5" disks
[19:00] <daftykins> is there anyone in here that doesn't know that? :)
[19:01] <daftykins> the only thing i was using it for last was older Windows' setup methods that required RAID controller drivers, though i moved on to just modifying the ISO to integrate them \o/
[19:01] <awilkins> Yeah, I ended up doing that
[19:01] <daftykins> that was for Server 2003
[19:02] <awilkins> Just used nLite to re-roll the installer with the OEM drivers
[19:02] <daftykins> :)
[19:02] <awilkins> Much more convenient
[19:02] <daftykins> indeed
[19:02] <daftykins> hmm £27 for a USB3 enclosure seems a rip-off to me
[19:03] <awilkins> Linux is of course another story ; things usually just wokr
[19:03] <mgdm> vim index.php
[19:03] <daftykins> and i'm not 100% sure that most computers with off-chipset USB 3 will allow an OS to boot properly
[19:03] <mgdm> *ahem*
[19:04] <MartijnVdS> daftykins: \o/ at least 8 on-chipset USB 3 ports ;)
[19:04] <daftykins> is that how many yours has?
[19:04] <MartijnVdS> daftykins: I think so, yess
[19:04] <daftykins> i've only a laptop with USB3 and that uses an external chip
[19:04] <daftykins> couldn't install Windows 7 from it, for example
[19:04] <MartijnVdS> daftykins: I have http://www.gigabyte.com/products/product-page.aspx?pid=4514#ov
[19:04] <daftykins> i think you can, you just have to integrate drivers
[19:05] <MartijnVdS> daftykins: ah it's 6 + 1 on top of the case
[19:05] <daftykins> even with #overview or #ov deleted that link doesn't work
[19:05] <daftykins> but tbh i know you have fancy new kit ;) it's getting old now! :D
[19:06] <MartijnVdS> daftykins: GA-Z87X-OC
[19:08] <MartijnVdS> "10 USB 3.0 ports"
[19:09] <daftykins> heh
[19:10] <daftykins> the build i did for my mate still came with PS/2 ports :O
[19:10] <MartijnVdS> Either I can't count, or I haven't connected all the ones that aren't on the back panel
[19:10] <MartijnVdS> daftykins: yeah this one has a PS/2 port as well
[19:10] <MartijnVdS> No idea why
[19:13] <awilkins> So you can use your Model M
[19:13] <awilkins> I mean, you do have a Model M, right? All self-respecting geeks have a Model M
[19:13] <directhex> model m sucks.
[19:14]  * awilkins beats directhex to death with his Model M and keeps right on typing after
[19:14] <mgdm> I can't stand 'em
[19:14] <MartijnVdS> awilkins: I have a Microsoft keyboard. So it's Model MS
[19:14] <daftykins> don't get me wrong, i prefer PS/2 to USB still
[19:14] <mgdm> Clacky uncomfy nonsense
[19:14] <directhex> it's a meme. the controller circuitry is terrible, and you can get a similar key action on a modern keyboard with modern buttons from cherry mx green switches
[19:14] <daftykins> sadly i had to give in to USB as i use a das keyboard
[19:14] <awilkins> I have a Cherry G80-3000 at work
[19:14] <awilkins> Clickity switches
[19:15] <awilkins> (think they are blacks, not sure)
[19:15] <awilkins> Still love my Model M
[19:15] <directhex> blacks are not clicky
[19:15] <awilkins> It's very old, not sure what colour the switches are
[19:15] <awilkins> But they are clickity ones
[19:15] <directhex> the common clicky switch is the blue
[19:16] <awilkins> Next time I pry off a keycap I'll see what colour they are
[19:16] <directhex> wife's keyboard is incredible
[19:16] <awilkins> The Cherry is more civilized for work, but people still do mention it's noise
[19:16] <directhex> such nice engineering
[19:16] <awilkins> The Model M causes .. comments.. on conference calls
[19:17] <awilkins> Because it's the M60 of keyboards, with it's rattleclack of inevitability
[19:17] <daftykins> directhex: you're simply going to have to get another for yourself! perhaps this is her plan for your birthday? ;)
[19:17] <mungbean> i gave a cherry keyboard to my dad with a penguin/tux super key
[19:17] <daftykins> my das kinda annoyed a friend over game voice chat once
[19:17] <directhex> daftykins, i try not to be overly derrivative. plus, there are other things i need
[19:17] <daftykins> playing portal 2 ;x
[19:17] <directhex> mungbean, i had one of those once
[19:17] <MartijnVdS> daftykins: is portal 2 out on Linux?!
[19:17] <awilkins> I bought a G80-3000 for my mother and her finger arthritis cleared right up
[19:18] <daftykins> MartijnVdS: i don't run desktop Linux.
[19:18] <mungbean> heathen
[19:18] <mungbean> :)
[19:18] <awilkins> She was a legal secretary, can't believe they foist those POS rubber membrane keyboards on professional typists
[19:18] <daftykins> mungbean: i'm disappointed in you
[19:19] <mungbean> isn't that what i'm supposed to say?:
[19:19] <daftykins> only if we're standing in a playground, i'd expect
[19:20] <mungbean> i only just started watching the inbetweeners incidentally
[19:20] <mungbean> hilarious, and i have 3 series to catch up on
[19:21] <daftykins> not seen
[19:22] <awilkins> It's amusing but childish, just like it's characters :-)
[19:23] <mungbean> yeah
[19:23] <mungbean> typical boy banter
[19:23] <daftykins> that's the English one i take it? British prog
[19:23] <daftykins> i tend to avoid anything that comes under that category
[19:32] <mungbean> which category? childish humour?
[19:33] <mungbean> me too, which is how i got to series 3 until i realised its really funny
[19:33] <daftykins> British TV
[19:33] <^aDaM-iPad> Hey daftykins
[19:33] <^aDaM-iPad> :-)
[19:33] <mungbean> i hate all those naff "pint of lager, packet of crisps" type stuff
[19:33] <daftykins> 'lo
[19:34] <^aDaM-iPad> Mmm in a hoteal an they say there is WiFi but can not  pick it up :/
[19:34] <^aDaM-iPad> hotel*
[19:34] <daftykins> maybe it's in designated spots only
[19:35] <MartijnVdS> sometimes it's only in the lobby
[19:35] <^aDaM-iPad> yeah i think it is in bar etc...
[19:35] <MartijnVdS> or you can complain at the front desk :)
[19:35] <^aDaM-iPad> not in rooms
[19:35] <^aDaM-iPad> lol good idea
[19:35] <MartijnVdS> ^aDaM-iPad: if it's in the Netherlands, tell me the name of the hotel and I might just go out and send them an offer to install a proper wifi network
[19:36] <daftykins> has it got wired in the rooms? :D
[19:36] <^aDaM-iPad> sell the electrics have a problem in my home so landlord paying off a hotel lol an refunding 2 days rent so not complaining .....
[19:36] <^aDaM-iPad> can i trust the contractors tho mmm good job i took immolent stuff.
[19:36] <daftykins> :O not bad at all
[19:37] <^aDaM-iPad> lol
[19:37] <^aDaM-iPad> its in the UK sorry MartijnVdS
[19:38] <^aDaM-iPad> need to jail brake my pad its boring lol.... can i put ubuntu on it or linux of some sort :/
[19:38] <daftykins> nah
[19:39] <^aDaM-iPad> an that sucks
[19:39] <^aDaM-iPad> ah*
[19:39] <diddledan> ios 7 is nearly here, anywho :-p
[19:39] <brobostigon> i could put bunty on my nexus7, :)
[19:40] <MartijnVdS> brobostigon: popey would hug you, probably, if you did
[19:40] <^aDaM-iPad> brobostigon, , thats lucky for you ;)
[19:40] <daftykins> i still don't know what tablets are useful for
[19:40] <^aDaM-iPad> ah nice diddledan  :)
[19:40] <brobostigon> MartijnVdS: lol, ummm,
[19:40] <^aDaM-iPad> diddledan, , whats new in OS £ ??
[19:40] <brobostigon> ^aDaM-iPad: not that i have.
[19:40] <^aDaM-iPad> 7*
[19:41] <^aDaM-iPad> brobostigon, try itvout
[19:41] <brobostigon> daftykins: in bed stuff, not requiring laptop or netbook,
[19:41] <diddledan> ^aDaM-iPad: a brand new ui mostly, some more multitasking abillities, keychain in safari for passwords.. erm..
[19:41] <diddledan> brobostigon: pr0n?
[19:41] <^aDaM-iPad> niceee
[19:41] <^aDaM-iPad> hahaahha brobostigon
[19:41] <brobostigon> ^aDaM-iPad: maybe, sometime, when/is i have enother i can afford to risk breaking.
[19:42] <brobostigon> diddledan: haha
[19:42] <^aDaM-iPad> yes true i should not jailbrake this and brake itneitherlol
[19:42] <daftykins> jailbreak sir, braking is what cars do :D
[19:43] <^aDaM-iPad> lo
[19:43] <^aDaM-iPad> haa
[19:44] <^aDaM-iPad> i did my iphone but restored kt
[19:44] <^aDaM-iPad> sucksto type on pads
[19:44] <^aDaM-iPad> l
[19:45] <daftykins> i see Apple have now released the outfit that goes with iOS 7
[19:45] <daftykins> http://24.media.tumblr.com/4977860951d45bd054277f33654565a4/tumblr_mo8mlqt4CT1svn1xeo1_500.jpg
[19:47] <diddledan> anybody for some sharp sticks I can poke into my eyes to try to recover from seeing that image?!
[19:47] <diddledan> have**
[19:47] <^aDaM-iPad> lool daftykins
[19:47] <MartijnVdS> diddledan: http://www.eyebleach.com/ ?
[19:48] <^aDaM-iPad> loool
[19:48] <^aDaM-iPad> hahhaahash
[19:48] <shauno> odd, the icons don't seem anywhere near that neon on mine
[19:48] <diddledan> lol
[19:48] <diddledan> nice
[19:48] <^aDaM-iPad> wantca lick of her lolly pop lol
[19:48] <MartijnVdS> diddledan: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BrainBleach
[19:50] <daftykins> i thought we'd all become immune long ago since we first got internet access? :)
[19:51] <diddledan> internet access doesn't necessarily mean seeing evil
[19:51] <czajkowski> popey: Laney http://www.breakingnews.ie/discover/video-rare-two-faced-kitten-born-in-oregon-597270.html
[19:51] <daftykins> i sense this shall creep me out
[19:52] <mungbean> i've learnt than in life we must exercise the right not to click
[19:53] <MartijnVdS> mungbean: ah, Article 1 of the Internet Constitution
[19:54] <mungbean> i saw giatse by accident for a mere 0.2s and it is imprinted on my retina forever
[19:54] <MartijnVdS> mungbean: http://bash.org/?15
[19:54] <mungbean> is that an ascii art of goatse?
[19:54] <MartijnVdS> mungbean: no, it's not.
[19:55] <diddledan> I still have tubgirl imprinted on my retina
[19:55] <mungbean> never saw
[19:55] <diddledan> thank god you didn't
[19:55] <daftykins> the trick is to be disillusioned
[19:55] <MartijnVdS> diddledan: lemon party?
[19:55] <diddledan> missed that one
[19:55] <daftykins> also seen
[19:55] <diddledan> I'm sure shauno has plenty of these tucked away to inflict on the unwary
[19:56] <MartijnVdS> diddledan: always fun around elections.. "Tired of the old candidates? Try the lemon party <link>"
[19:56] <mungbean> reddit can be evil sometimes at telling/showing stuff. i fear for kids today
[19:56] <daftykins> reddit is too full of pseudo-intellectualism
[19:56] <MartijnVdS> daftykins: no that's hackernews/ycombinator
[19:56] <daftykins> people are considered clever because they can concoct a briefly amusing image
[19:57] <daftykins> i've no experience with either of those
[19:57] <MartijnVdS> daftykins: news.ycombinator.com = "hacker news", it's reddit-ish, but lots of elitism
[19:59] <daftykins> i've only ever seen reddit when i've been linked
[19:59] <mungbean> some subreddits are good
[19:59] <daftykins> too much of a time wasting contraption
[19:59] <mungbean> non default ones
[19:59] <MartijnVdS> mungbean: the smaller ones have a better signal-to-noise ratio
[19:59] <mungbean> yeah.
[20:00] <MartijnVdS> and you learn which links not to click fast enough
[20:00] <mungbean> mildlyinteresting is a good one
[20:02] <MartijnVdS> mungbean: /r/gallifrey :)
[20:03] <MartijnVdS> mungbean: /r/lolphp as well
[20:09] <silner> Curious fact. The version of Pidgin that comes with Mint is primed to join the Ubuntu servers rather than Mint's
[20:11] <jacobw> silner: You mean Freenode?
[20:11] <MartijnVdS> jacobw: probably the Ubuntu IRC channels
[20:11] <MartijnVdS> not #mint or whatever they use
[20:12] <silner> Well yeah, but it actually uses the alias irc.ubuntu.com to do it
[20:12] <jacobw> CNAME to chat.freenode.net :)
[20:14] <silner> The dedicated apps like irssi and xchat go to Mint. I guess it's an oversight
[20:15]  * brobostigon slurps franziskaner
[20:15] <silner> Pidgin doesn't join any channels by default MartijnVdS
[20:16] <brobostigon> neither does irssi, last i looked.
[20:17] <silner> brobostigon: No it doesn't but it does go to the mint server, which isn't Freenode IRRC
[20:18] <brobostigon> silner: ah ok. i would no have known, mostly being a debianite.
[20:18] <jacobw> brobostigon: yummy
[20:18] <brobostigon> jacobw: oh yes, :D
[20:19] <jacobw> brobostigon: Checkout The Bavarian Beerhouse in EC3 next time in you're in London
[20:19] <brobostigon> jacobw: i havent been in london in almost 4 years, only been twice.
[20:20] <jacobw> brobostigon: Have you been to Bavaria recently?
[20:20] <silner> Mint uses irc.spotchat.org - I have no idea why they eschew Freenode, but then: don't Debian have their own server? OFTC or something? I have used Debian Desktop in a while
[20:20] <MartijnVdS> jacobw: http://www.appiehein.com/2265-2004-thickbox/bavaria-premium-beer.jpg
[20:20] <jacobw> :D
[20:20] <brobostigon> jacobw: last time, around 15/16 years ago,
[20:20] <brobostigon> jacobw: 14/15/16*
[20:23] <jacobw> :)
[20:24] <silner> I wanted to make a suggestion for the Ubuntu Devs but I want to run it here so you can tell me any obvious reasons it wouldn't work. I set up a new printer recently and found the driver on Openprinting, but I got to wondering: why doesn't Ubuntu have a ready made set of ppas for obvious drivers, to make it smoother for new users?
[20:24] <MartijnVdS> silner: I think it auto-installs openprinting drivers, actually
[20:26] <silner> Ah OK. Well for some reason that didn't work for me, but the Deb on Open printing did. I was probably unlucky
[20:26] <brobostigon> jacobw: it was on my way back from kur in davos, for treatment for my eczema, when we lived in germany.
[20:27] <jacobw> brobostigon: When did you live in Germany?
[20:27] <brobostigon> jacobw: 92 till 2000.
[20:27] <jacobw> Long tiem
[20:28] <brobostigon> yes, when my dad worked there.
[20:28] <jacobw> Cool
[20:29] <brobostigon> that depends on your view.
[20:30] <brobostigon> the german health system, paying for me to go to davos for 6 weeks, is an upside.
[20:30] <MartijnVdS> Paid to go to Davros? So.. you're a Dalek now?
[20:31] <MartijnVdS> oh.. Davos, oops
[20:31] <silner> MartijnVdS: I bet it's cos I set it up over a network. I guess the autoinstall depends on USB connectivity. I'll remember that in future. Though I'd have to buy an A-B cable. I have used one in a while :)
[20:31] <silner> have=haven't
[20:32] <jacobw> The German health system is great, IMO.
[20:32] <brobostigon> jacobw: shame it is private, but still.
[20:32] <brobostigon> MartijnVdS: :)
[20:32] <silner> Germany has no public health system?
[20:32] <jacobw> Lies
[20:33] <brobostigon> not that it used to be, might have changed.
[21:39] <jlphillips> I am running Ubuntu 12.04 LTS. I get audio from a bluetooth device but not from the built-in audio. Any help?
[21:41] <^aDaM-iPad> jlphillips, sounds like a sound driver issue to be or maybe you need to configure it :-)
[21:42] <diddledan> possibly it's set to output digital atm
[21:44] <jlphillips> It's set to digital output (s/pdif). In alsamixer, the s/pdif is set to 00, and I cannot turn it up.
[21:45] <^aDaM-iPad> I always have sound issue on ubuntu with my on-board sound :(
[21:45] <^aDaM-iPad> My USB headsphone never work on 13.04
[21:46] <jlphillips> ^aDaM, do you get sound from headphones?
[21:46] <diddledan> if you're trying headphones then you'll want it set to analogue output not spdif
[21:46] <^aDaM-iPad> not on 13.04 no some things work like VLC, YouTube but any games it doesnt.
[21:47] <jlphillips> My headphones work, just not the computer's speakers.
[21:48] <^aDaM-iPad> I havent tried any jacks in mine lol just USB headphones.
[21:48] <^aDaM-iPad> Must try to see never had problems with using speakers.
[21:49] <diddledan> if it's a laptop or if your speakers are connected with anything other than optical then you want it set to analogue
[21:51] <jlphillips> It's the built-in speakers on my laptop, not external speakers.
[21:51] <directhex> s/pdif is optical out
[21:51] <jlphillips> Yeah. I figured out I'm set to PCM, not s/pdif
[22:23] <ali1234> is there a simple command line tool that will watch for changes to specific files and then run a command?
[22:23] <ali1234> eg: watch *.c -exec make
[22:24] <ali1234> pretty self explanatory
[22:24] <mgdm> inotifywatch, or something like that
[22:24] <mgdm> http://linux.die.net/man/1/inotifywatch
[22:26] <ali1234> doesn't seem to have an -exec option but i can probably do something with inotifywait and a loop with a sleep
[22:31] <mgdm> ali1234: slide 31 in https://speakerdeck.com/rowan_m/building-better-developers
[22:31] <ali1234> yes exactly
[22:32] <ali1234> and i will add a notify-osd "it's done" too since make takes a while
[22:32] <ali1234> i'm not actually building c files, i'm converting xcf to png textures
[22:33] <ali1234> hmm what exactly does && do in that context?
[22:34] <ali1234> oh it breaks the line, i see
[22:34] <mgdm> it means if the previous thing was successful then do the next thing
[22:34] <ali1234> yeah i know but the line breaks confused me
[22:34] <mgdm> ah
[22:35] <ali1234> normally i would put a \ even if it's not needed
[22:37] <ali1234> while true; do inotifywait *.xcf && make && notify-send "Textures generated"; done
[22:37] <ali1234> awesome
[22:37] <ali1234> now i don't have to click "export" in gimp, just ctrl-s and it's done
[22:38] <mgdm> it's a handy trick
[22:38] <ali1234> also, an ideal use for notifications :)
[22:41] <mgdm> on the Mac I occasionally use the 'say' command for that
[22:41] <mgdm> do slowThing && say "Done it"
[22:41] <NET||abuse> hi folks,
[22:42] <ali1234> hmm i need a sleep in there, otherwise it runs make before gimp finishes writing the file, and generates corrupted output
[22:42] <NET||abuse> i just updated 12.10 to 13.04, all is well,,,, almost.. i have no desktop decorators. and no unity bar on the left or dock up top
[22:42] <dogmatic69> anyone know where I can check hardware compatibility (for http://www.amazon.co.uk/Nvidia-GTX550Ti-192-Bit-Ready-Graphics/dp/B004S5CCP4)
[22:43] <NET||abuse> or rather, I have nvidia drivers all installed and good, but i've no desktop window decorators, and i guess i correct myself, the dock is the thing on the left, what's the menu bar up top called then?
[22:43] <ali1234> dogmatic69: the nvidia readme has a list of supported cards, which is nearly all cards obviously
[22:43] <ali1234> http://nouveau.freedesktop.org/wiki/FeatureMatrix/ for nouveau
[22:43] <dogmatic69> ali1234: thanks, where is the readme
[22:45] <ali1234> http://us.download.nvidia.com/XFree86/Linux-x86/310.19/README/index.html
[22:45] <NET||abuse> ok, so i was trying the nvidia 313 driver, will downgrade to 310 and see what happens.
[22:45] <ali1234> see appendix A
[22:45] <ali1234> NET||abuse: i wasn't refering to your problem at all
[22:46] <dogmatic69> bah, no SLI :/
[22:46] <ali1234> i have no idea about unity bugs
[22:46] <NET||abuse> ali1234: oh i know, I just realised myself that 313 maybe isn't very stable, specially for an NVS card.
[22:46] <NET||abuse> :) thanks anyway though.
[22:48] <ali1234> NET||abuse: for your side question: http://askubuntu.com/questions/10228/whats-the-right-terminology-for-unitys-ui-elements
[22:51] <NET||abuse> ali1234: lol,, nice one :)
[22:58] <NET||abuse> 310 didn't work either.. trying completely mad thing, compile 319 :)
[22:59] <NET||abuse> I had optimus turned off in bios, forgot about that.. lets see if it's good or really not good :P
[23:04] <NET||abuse> optimus seems to be a big no..
[23:04] <NET||abuse> trying one more without optimus.. but might not be driver bug, might just be unity in the end.
[23:05] <NET||abuse> so, driver seems to work ok.. but unity elements dont show up. no launcher or menu bar
[23:06] <NET||abuse> though i doo seem to have window decorators on my terminal now.
[23:07] <NET||abuse> ok, how can i try to kick unity and get it to reload?
[23:08] <NET||abuse> on command line if i run "unity" I get errors    compiz (decor) - Warn: No default decoration found, placement will not be correct
[23:14] <NET||abuse> yay, solved,,
[23:14] <NET||abuse> ccsm re-enable unity plugin, override gnome compatability key shortcuts