[00:00] so a tad slow [00:00] if you have unlimited internet, just set it to download and notify [00:00] or if not, just set it to notify only [00:00] mind you they are having problems killing off xp [00:00] who is? [00:01] microsoft [00:01] it's been EOLed, end of [00:01] lots of companies will not update to win7 [00:01] yeah come April she's dead [00:01] and not a moment too soon either [00:01] i know plenty of companies updating [00:01] yeah but it will not stop it be used [00:01] i'll refuse to work on it even if i get any requests from now on [00:01] i was part of a win7 rollout last year [00:02] it won't stop O/S2 Warp being used, but it doesn't mean people have to support it [00:02] it is still the most popular os that microsoft came out with [00:03] it's not, by current market share [00:03] win8 sells less then vista [00:03] peak was in 2007 [00:03] win7 is the big boy now [00:03] win 8 2.86% vista 5.9% [00:04] um, source? [00:04] xp is still up there with win7 [00:04] BBC technology [00:04] ha [00:04] it's not when you see too many infected XP machines you have to scrub :) [00:05] it's just too easily exploited [00:05] yeah i know [00:05] as of last month, win7 was on 44.8%, winxp on 37.7%, vista on 4.5% and win8 on 4.2% [00:05] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_operating_systems [00:05] according to Net Applications [00:05] who are pretty good as this sort of thing [00:05] s/as/at/ [00:06] well given the money they have spent in marketing and adds for win 8 thats not particular good since its been out for a year now [00:07] 10 months, but who's counting? :) [00:07] and they have to put back the start button [00:07] in an attempt to gain more sales [00:08] i doubt that will increase sales by a large amount [00:08] mind you guess win9 must not be too long to release [00:08] 8.1 in a couple of months [00:08] i doubt it'll be to 8 as 7 was to Vista though [00:09] it's just a big service pack [00:09] more akin to OS X 10.8 -> 10.9 [00:10] anyway microsoft are making money out of linux [00:10] do explain [00:11] foxcom pays microsoft a licence to use linux [00:11] otherwise they will be hit with legal stuff [00:11] who? [00:11] the manufacture of mobile devices [00:12] you mean hon hai foxconn? [00:12] MS threatend IP legal action [00:12] so they decided to just pay MS rather then get draged througth the courts [00:13] ummm [00:14] that's an android thing, not linux per se [00:14] dont ask me how they can do that - was an article in a linux mag a few months ago [00:15] android is based upon linux [00:15] IS IT?!?!?!? [00:15] :) [00:15] googles version of it [00:17] but it's an *android* patent issue [00:17] if you can forgive my tangent, here are some snaps i just put up of the laptop i was fixing up earlier :) [00:17] http://imgur.com/I0S4eQx,fltsuLc,wxXYnh9,EMgCl0k,EbNTLJZ,BT8Gssv,Z3WI3n6,JqEf3c0 [00:18] hope you airdusted that fan dude :) [00:18] and you have more patience than me [00:18] haha [00:18] i find it fun, sadly enough [00:18] i had to do a teardown on a thinkpad [00:18] took me two days [00:18] just favours for friends and families of friends [00:18] was a screen replacement [00:18] ouch! [00:18] ah yeah [00:19] hated every minute of it [00:19] so how many operating suytems have back doors built into them for the snoopers to gain access? [00:19] and it was a work thing so i couldn't just do a table flip and say **** it [00:19] brianb: all of them [00:19] yes [00:19] and the word 'gullible' isn't in the dictionary [00:20] XD [00:20] if you believe OSes have backdoors embedded within them to aid national intelligence agencies, then you should write your own OS [00:21] or do a line by line analysis of the source code of your favourite FLOSS distro and compile it from scratch [00:21] it doesn't make sense commercially to provide backdoors into OSes [00:21] even the cpus probably have backdoors built in [00:22] look at Apple, they have a backlog of iPhone unlocks to do under warrant [00:22] because the authorities don't have the tools to break into the phones themselves [00:23] if my OS is secure, how does John Q. Spymaster get into my CPU???? [00:25] im sure they can look at the way the authoritys came up with the software to infect the industrial controlers used for the manfcture of plutomium [00:25] ?!?!?!?!?! [00:25] a few years ago [00:25] you're trolling us, yes? [00:25] the centfuges [00:25] regardless of your intentions there can be little gain from such conspiracy theories [00:26] dont you follow the news? [00:26] occasionally i hear of things [00:26] but if this is about PRISM, i'm not really surprised [00:26] nor should anyone be [00:26] he's not talking about PRISM [00:26] he's talking about Stuxnet [00:26] yes [00:26] yeah the SCADA thing [00:26] i read about that, mm [00:26] which was very very well documented, and based on lots of 0day hacks that were burned in the name of state sponsored malware [00:27] still i'm afraid this kinda convo i find a fair bit fruitless to enter into [00:27] nothing particularly insidious [00:27] the scada software was poorly protected, and the hacks employed were pretty rudimentary [00:27] the recent chinese stuff is kinda similar [00:28] the fact that it's state sponsored is the unusual part [00:28] the methods employed are not unusual [00:28] well with 30million lines of code in the linux kernel im sure someone has layed a few trap doors [00:28] oh please [00:28] now you're definitely trolling [00:28] so you have analyese all that code then? [00:29] of course not [00:29] qed [00:29] but do you seriously believe an openly developed project has been compromised by a government? [00:29] with the amount of eyes on the code at any given time [00:29] things which are "bad" get noticed very very quickly [00:29] lots of people involved you dont know were they work do you? [00:30] like when kernel.org was compromised a few years back [00:30] oh dear [00:30] i've been trolled [00:30] dammit [00:30] neuro: it's ok! it's still good! [00:30] \o/ [00:31] a few years back i read that there was a few lines of code that nearly got into the linux kernel which would have given a back door access [00:31] tum te tum [00:31] make a witty retort regarding the BBC iPlayer [00:31] IPLAYER ISN'T AS GOOD AS SKY GO! [00:31] is that witty enough? [00:31] well i guess you work for sky [00:31] rofl [00:32] sorry, i forgot my 96pt tag [00:32] although sky go interestingly does let me stream C4 channels live, which i don't think 4od does [00:32] at least the BBC Iplayer was the first in the feild [00:34] and? [00:34] that's like saying smallpox got there early [00:34] hehe [00:34] and sky only got the R&D from NDS [00:34] and i'm pretty sure VoD predates iplayer [00:34] which they took over [00:35] lol wat [00:35] you know cisco owns NDS now [00:35] NDS was the R&D arm of the old IBA [00:35] oh dear god [00:35] i'm still being trolled [00:35] :D [00:36] there are TLA's being thrown around left right and centre here [00:36] google it [00:36] daftykins: NDS is an israeli company who specialised in satellite TV encryption [00:36] the IBA developed most of the digital TV [00:36] GAAAAH [00:36] o rry [00:37] brianb: i would if i was interested, no offence [00:37] the IBA was the old Independent Broadcasting Authority, who regulated independent TV in the UK [00:37] NDS was created from the R&D arm of the IBA [00:37] no, it wasn't [00:37] it was a startup founded in israel [00:37] yes [00:37] it was [00:38] but it also had roots in digitTVmidea [00:38] daftykins: then the IBA became the ITA, then ITC, then Ofcom [00:38] or at least bits of Ofcom [00:38] correction ITA then IBA then ITC and now ofcom [00:39] whatever [00:39] most of the IBA's R&D was sold off and skybsky [00:40] in case you're not actually trolling, you're probably thinking of the IBA developing the DBS stuff that became BSB [00:40] aquired it [00:40] yes they did [00:40] which was nothing to do with DVB-T [00:40] CMAC [00:41] um, no [00:41] D-MAC [00:41] conditional access was developed by the IBA [00:41] CMAC then D-MAC [00:42] hence how NDS was born [00:42] WHAT ARE YOU WIBBLING ABOUT [00:42] btw i have a IBA R&D paper on conditional access [00:44] i don't doubt you have [00:44] but NDS didn't actually have a product until 1991 [00:44] and that was the origionation of encryption of digital TV [00:44] IBA was sold off in 1990 [00:45] and NDS came out of the sell off [00:45] IBA's regulatory functions went to the ITC and the Radio Authority [00:45] IBA's engineering went to NTL, which was created specifically to take them [00:45] yes but the R&D was sold off and sky got that [00:46] you are bloody minded in your trolling, aren't you? [00:46] i'll give you that [00:46] then they sold bits of it off [00:46] im not a troll [00:46] you're doing a good impression of one [00:46] i know people who worked for all those companies [00:47] so i do speak with some knowledge [00:47] you're speaking with second or third hand knowledge [00:47] no i actually worked with some of them [00:47] so it's second hand then [00:48] well what knowledge are you speaking from then? [00:48] something called Reading [00:48] well that just googling stuff its not actually konwing ppl is it! [00:49] i've read books on UK broadcasting [00:49] are you saying those books are fake? [00:49] NDS was founded in Israel in 1988 [00:49] they placed products to market in 1991 [00:49] i have worked years ago in UK broadcasting [00:49] News Corp bought NDS in 1992 [00:49] Cisco bought NDS last year [00:49] which is more the reading books on it [00:50] NDS had NOTHING to do with the IBA [00:50] News Corp was sky [00:50] unless the IBA moved to israel when no-one was looking [00:50] no, News Corp was a shareholder in Sky [00:50] and always has been [00:50] it is not a majority shareholder [00:51] the designers from the IBA's T&A division and R&D depts went over to News Corp [00:51] you're probably conflating IBA's engineering people at BSB being transferred through the buyout [00:51] NO [00:51] they went to British Sky Broadcasting [00:51] i know ex design enginer from the IBA who is with NDS [00:51] and if ANY of those engineers went to NDS it was very much AFTER the fact [00:51] i don't doubt that [00:52] well im sorry you are incorect [00:52] but saying IBA sold their R&D to News Corp to become NDS is untrue [00:52] utterly untrue [00:52] (in fact IBA sold nothing, it was disbanded as discussed) [00:52] so your an expert on broadcasting then? [00:52] i know a little bit about it [00:53] that does n ot make you an expert does it [00:53] like i know work on NICAM and DVB was spearheaded by BBC R&D [00:53] i at no point claimed to be an expert on anything [00:53] i just remember facts that i have been exposed to [00:54] well the encryption was being worked on with the event of D-MAC [00:54] just because you "know a guy" surely doesn't make you an expert either? [00:54] of course there was encryption being layered onto D-MAC [00:54] i did say i worked in the industry [00:54] otherwise The Movie Channel doesn't exist [00:54] working in an industry doesn't make you an expert in all things in that industry [00:55] and D-MAC came before all the other chanels [00:55] eh? [00:55] as i said most of the R&D on MAC (D-MAC) came from IBA R&D Labs [00:56] which found its was into NDS [00:56] and Tanburg [00:56] NDS were tasked to do the encryption for Sky, which was a PAL based system [00:57] dont forget its 20 odd years of technology since the original stuff was in development [00:58] News Corp was owned by Murdock [00:58] BSB used IBA technology [00:58] then BSB mergered with sky [00:59] and sky at that point were using NDS videocrypt [00:59] and sky wanted pay as you view [00:59] sky HAD scrambling already [00:59] that was developed by the IBA Labs [00:59] NO [00:59] IT [00:59] BLOODY [00:59] WASN'T [00:59] it ws [00:59] was [01:00] i give up [01:00] you're impossible [01:00] D-MAC could be scrambeled [01:00] i didn't say otherwise [01:00] crivvens [01:00] i suggest you look at some online IBA R&D reports [01:01] i suggest you look at videocrypt vs eurocrypt [01:01] and widen you reading scope [01:01] two very different systems [01:02] maybe so same as PAL and NTSC or SECAM are all different but fundamentaly each is a derivative from the NTSC system [01:02] *facepalm* [01:03] look at the facts [01:03] BSB was essentially an IBA venture [01:03] the IBA went with EBU standards, MAC and EuroCrypt [01:03] most TV standards were based upon the EBU [01:04] Sky was a purely commercial venture, and to get to market fast, they went with straight PAL over DBS rather than multiplexing PAL into MAC, and VideoCrypt - a commercial product from NDS [01:04] and most broadcaster were part of the EBU [01:04] shut up [01:04] when BSB went defunct and merged with Sky, both systems were ran concurrently [01:04] then D-MAC/EuroCrypt was deprecated in favour of Pal/VideoCrypt [01:04] BSB did not go defunct [01:05] whatever, shush [01:05] meanwhile, the BBC were working on DVB-T based on MPEG-2 ISO 13818-1 [01:05] the uk goverment of the day did not like the IBA and so they gave the green light for the merger [01:05] and it was they who led the UK digital transmission standards, not anyone from the IBA, which didn't exist [01:06] and Sky elected to use DVB-S for Sky Digital [01:06] well the IBA was closed down in 1990 [01:06] so what happend to all the R&D engineers then? [01:06] they went to NTL or got jobs elsewhere [01:07] hold on [01:07] or ended up working for BSkyB [01:07] if they were working for BSB in the first place [01:07] NTL was set up for the transmission are which was not the same as the R&D arm [01:08] two different things [01:09] are you saying that IBA Engineering only dealt with tx? [01:09] the IBA split into three divisions - regulation hence ITC/Ofcom, the Radio Authorty, and engineering which had R&D and transmission [01:09] thank you for repeating what i said earlier [01:10] so the people involved in transmission when over to NTL, and those in R&D when to News Corp [01:11] i'm going to say this in small words so that hopefully it will get through to you [01:11] News Corp did not own BSkyB [01:11] or a holding company set up that changed its name a few times [01:11] they only had a shareholding in it [01:11] and split into other groups [01:11] so who are New Corp then? [01:11] who owns New Corp? [01:12] what's that got to do with anything? [01:12] NEWS... [01:12] you two got beds to get to? ;) [01:13] i *was* going to go on a coding run tonight :) [01:13] got me some web stats to process [01:13] all kinds of bash+perl evils [01:14] so what industray do you work in then? [01:14] what does it matter? [01:14] neuro: all-nighter? [01:15] yeah [01:15] i slept earlier mind [01:15] ah :) [01:15] i tend to give up ~mid-day when i try to pull those now [01:15] plus i'm just too weird on the 'high' of no sleep [01:15] yeah, i may have problems about 1-2pm [01:28] wow, google are "retiring" chrome frame [01:28] i didn't know it still existed [01:28] haha [01:28] must be due to that engine change [01:28] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FVi7n-6txcg#t=106s [01:28] for your entertainment pleasure [01:28] although do check your volume [01:29] lol [01:31] worth it for the casablanca bit [01:31] the new batman really was a crap detective though [01:32] Batman Begins: "WHERE ARE THE DRUGS GOIIINNNNNGGGGG?" [01:32] The Dark Knight: "WHERE IS SHEEE?!" [01:32] The Dark Knight Rises: "WHERE'S THE TRGGGGGRRRR?!" [01:39] :D [01:39] i wonder if Christian Bale had to have throat sweets on standby though [01:39] or some lemsip === Hornet- is now known as Hornet === G4MBY is now known as PaulW2U [07:06] Morning all [07:27] morning all [07:27] czajkowski: congrats x [07:27] congrats? [07:28] http://www.lczajkowski.com/2013/06/13/a-bite-of-something-new/ [07:29] ah, czajkowski: congrats :) [07:43] Morning all [07:43] morning popey [07:43] how are you today? :) [07:43] sigh... Another kernel update another reboot :-( [07:43] Tickety boo! [07:44] yeah, damn those security updates keeping us safe! [07:44] Still no 3.10(-rc?) in saucy [07:44] lol [07:46] Morning!!1 [07:46] oh your supposed to reboot after a kernel update....rats [07:47] ;) [07:47] problem with running a minecraft server, you can't instantly reboot lol [07:47] Yeah - whatever happened to in-process upgrades that were promised to us by these free software engineers! [07:48] What do we want? No more reboots! When do we want it? Now! [07:48] they exist [07:48] if you pay ☻ [07:48] TheOpenSourcerer: they exist except for kernel I thought [07:48] no, they exist for kernel too [07:48] pay up! [07:48] ah [07:48] hey czajkowski - kernel too ;-) [07:48] http://www.ksplice.com/ [07:48] popey: but is it integrated in Ubuntu? [07:49] it works on ubuntu as I understand it [07:49] Oooh never realised it was "proprietary". [07:49] it is oracles toy now === schwuk_away is now known as schwuk [07:50] where good projects go to die [07:58] Kernel security updates are great, but why do I need 600 emails on the security list about them? [08:00] sometimes I can't tell if a security update is actuall required, because the packages are still "held back" [08:00] SuperMatt: uh.. no [08:01] SuperMatt: held back means that you need to "dist-upgrade" instead of "upgrade" because apt won't install extra packages otherwise :) [08:01] but they're still required? [08:01] yes [08:01] gl in your new job czajkowski [08:01] curses, more renoots [08:02] kernel updates can cause an API version change, which creates a new package [08:02] *reboots [08:02] back in a mo - goes for a reboot & some coffee [08:33] I daren't reboot my server, I can only bring eth0 up manually with the 'ip' command [08:34] dwatkins: why? what's wrong with /etc/network/interfaces [08:34] my desktop has gone into death spiral :( [08:34] deathtop [08:34] alt-f1 login is taking 5 mins [08:35] Good morning all, happy Friday and happy Blood Donor Day! :-D [08:35] i'll happily donate blood!* [08:35] (* note: i have a phobia of needles & pass out at minor blood tests**) [08:35] Me too, they don't want mine ☹ [08:35] (** also i have shingles) [08:36] popey: lycanthropy, right? [08:36] not seen many donate places over here considering it's donor week [08:36] i'm bit underweight and tend to get dizzy in normal circumstances [08:36] probably not the best idea [08:37] MartijnVdS: I'm not sure, I've checked it doesn't have two sets of default router, but maybe there's something else that's causing this - where does whatever uses the file log? http://hastebin.com/nogiteyawe.hs [08:37] d'oh - it does have two default routers, MartijnVdS *slaps face* [08:37] hah [08:37] I must have been tired yesterday to miss that [08:37] dwatkins: you don't need the "network" bit either [08:37] dwatkins: that's calculated from address + netmask [08:37] broadcast is also the default [08:38] thanks, where should I have been looking for a "you shouldn't have two gateway lines in this file" message? [08:38] hmm I think I want a fried egg sandwich [08:38] the network looks wrong [08:38] dwatkins: "ifup eth0" ? [08:39]