[00:00] <daftykins> so a tad slow
[00:00] <neuro> if you have unlimited internet, just set it to download and notify
[00:00] <neuro> or if not, just set it to notify only
[00:00] <brianb> mind you they are having problems killing off xp
[00:00] <neuro> who is?
[00:01] <brianb> microsoft
[00:01] <neuro> it's been EOLed, end of
[00:01] <brianb> lots of companies will not update to win7
[00:01] <daftykins> yeah come April she's dead
[00:01] <daftykins> and not a moment too soon either
[00:01] <neuro> i know plenty of companies updating
[00:01] <brianb> yeah but it will not stop it be used
[00:01] <daftykins> i'll refuse to work on it even if i get any requests from now on
[00:01] <neuro> i was part of a win7 rollout last year
[00:02] <neuro> it won't stop O/S2 Warp being used, but it doesn't mean people have to support it
[00:02] <brianb> it is still the most popular os that microsoft came out with
[00:03] <neuro> it's not, by current market share
[00:03] <brianb> win8 sells less then vista
[00:03] <neuro> peak was in 2007
[00:03] <neuro> win7 is the big boy now
[00:03] <brianb> win 8 2.86% vista 5.9%
[00:04] <neuro> um, source?
[00:04] <brianb> xp is still up there with win7
[00:04] <brianb> BBC technology
[00:04] <neuro> ha
[00:04] <daftykins> it's not when you see too many infected XP machines you have to scrub :)
[00:05] <daftykins> it's just too easily exploited
[00:05] <brianb> yeah i know
[00:05] <neuro> as of last month, win7 was on 44.8%, winxp on 37.7%, vista on 4.5% and win8 on 4.2%
[00:05] <neuro> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_operating_systems
[00:05] <neuro> according to Net Applications
[00:05] <neuro> who are pretty good as this sort of thing
[00:05] <neuro> s/as/at/
[00:06] <brianb> well given the money they have spent in marketing and adds for win 8 thats not particular good since its been out for a year now
[00:07] <neuro> 10 months, but who's counting? :)
[00:07] <brianb> and they have to put back the start button
[00:07] <brianb> in an attempt to gain more sales
[00:08] <neuro> i doubt that will increase sales by a large amount
[00:08] <brianb> mind you guess win9 must not be too long to release
[00:08] <daftykins> 8.1 in a couple of months
[00:08] <daftykins> i doubt it'll be to 8 as 7 was to Vista though
[00:09] <neuro> it's just a big service pack
[00:09] <neuro> more akin to OS X 10.8 -> 10.9
[00:10] <brianb> anyway microsoft are making money out of linux
[00:10] <neuro> do explain
[00:11] <brianb> foxcom pays microsoft a licence to use linux
[00:11] <brianb> otherwise they will be hit with legal stuff
[00:11] <neuro> who?
[00:11] <brianb> the manufacture of mobile devices
[00:12] <neuro> you mean hon hai foxconn?
[00:12] <brianb> MS threatend IP legal action
[00:12] <brianb> so they decided to just pay MS rather then get draged througth the courts
[00:13] <neuro> ummm
[00:14] <neuro> that's an android thing, not linux per se
[00:14] <brianb> dont ask me how they can do that - was an article in a linux mag a few months ago
[00:15] <brianb> android is based upon linux
[00:15] <neuro> IS IT?!?!?!?
[00:15] <neuro> :)
[00:15] <brianb> googles version of it
[00:17] <neuro> but it's an *android* patent issue
[00:17] <daftykins> if you can forgive my tangent, here are some snaps i just put up of the laptop i was fixing up earlier :)
[00:17] <daftykins> http://imgur.com/I0S4eQx,fltsuLc,wxXYnh9,EMgCl0k,EbNTLJZ,BT8Gssv,Z3WI3n6,JqEf3c0
[00:18] <neuro> hope you airdusted that fan dude :)
[00:18] <neuro> and you have more patience than me
[00:18] <daftykins> haha
[00:18] <daftykins> i find it fun, sadly enough
[00:18] <neuro> i had to do a teardown on a thinkpad
[00:18] <neuro> took me two days
[00:18] <daftykins> just favours for friends and families of friends
[00:18] <neuro> was a screen replacement
[00:18] <daftykins> ouch!
[00:18] <daftykins> ah yeah
[00:19] <neuro> hated every minute of it
[00:19] <brianb> so how many operating suytems have back doors built into them for the snoopers to gain access?
[00:19] <neuro> and it was a work thing so i couldn't just do a table flip and say **** it
[00:19] <neuro> brianb: all of them
[00:19] <brianb> yes
[00:19] <neuro> and the word 'gullible' isn't in the dictionary
[00:20] <daftykins> XD
[00:20] <neuro> if you believe OSes have backdoors embedded within them to aid national intelligence agencies, then you should write your own OS
[00:21] <neuro> or do a line by line analysis of the source code of your favourite FLOSS distro and compile it from scratch
[00:21] <neuro> it doesn't make sense commercially to provide backdoors into OSes
[00:21] <brianb> even the cpus probably have backdoors built in
[00:22] <neuro> look at Apple, they have a backlog of iPhone unlocks to do under warrant
[00:22] <neuro> because the authorities don't have the tools to break into the phones themselves
[00:23] <neuro> if my OS is secure, how does John Q. Spymaster get into my CPU????
[00:25] <brianb> im sure they can look at the way the authoritys came up with the software to infect the industrial controlers used for the manfcture of plutomium
[00:25] <neuro> ?!?!?!?!?!
[00:25] <brianb> a few years ago
[00:25] <neuro> you're trolling us, yes?
[00:25] <brianb> the centfuges
[00:25] <daftykins> regardless of your intentions there can be little gain from such conspiracy theories
[00:26] <brianb> dont you follow the news?
[00:26] <daftykins> occasionally i hear of things
[00:26] <daftykins> but if this is about PRISM, i'm not really surprised
[00:26] <daftykins> nor should anyone be
[00:26] <neuro> he's not talking about PRISM
[00:26] <neuro> he's talking about Stuxnet
[00:26] <brianb> yes
[00:26] <daftykins> yeah the SCADA thing
[00:26] <daftykins> i read about that, mm
[00:26] <neuro> which was very very well documented, and based on lots of 0day hacks that were burned in the name of state sponsored malware
[00:27] <daftykins> still i'm afraid this kinda convo i find a fair bit fruitless to enter into
[00:27] <neuro> nothing particularly insidious
[00:27] <neuro> the scada software was poorly protected, and the hacks employed were pretty rudimentary
[00:27] <neuro> the recent chinese stuff is kinda similar
[00:28] <neuro> the fact that it's state sponsored is the unusual part
[00:28] <neuro> the methods employed are not unusual
[00:28] <brianb> well with 30million lines of code in the linux kernel im sure someone has layed a few trap doors
[00:28] <neuro> oh please
[00:28] <neuro> now you're definitely trolling
[00:28] <brianb> so you have analyese all that code then?
[00:29] <neuro> of course not
[00:29] <brianb> qed
[00:29] <neuro> but do you seriously believe an openly developed project has been compromised by a government?
[00:29] <neuro> with the amount of eyes on the code at any given time
[00:29] <neuro> things which are "bad" get noticed very very quickly
[00:29] <brianb> lots of people involved you dont know were they work do you?
[00:30] <neuro> like when kernel.org was compromised a few years back
[00:30] <neuro> oh dear
[00:30] <neuro> i've been trolled
[00:30] <neuro> dammit
[00:30] <daftykins> neuro: it's ok! it's still good!
[00:30] <neuro> \o/
[00:31] <brianb> a few years back i read that there was a few lines of code that nearly got into the linux kernel which would have given a back door access
[00:31] <neuro> tum te tum
[00:31] <daftykins> make a witty retort regarding the BBC iPlayer
[00:31] <neuro> IPLAYER ISN'T AS GOOD AS SKY GO!
[00:31] <neuro> is that witty enough?
[00:31] <brianb> well i guess you work for sky
[00:31] <neuro> rofl
[00:32] <neuro> sorry, i forgot my 96pt </sarcasm> tag
[00:32] <neuro> although sky go interestingly does let me stream C4 channels live, which i don't think 4od does
[00:32] <brianb> at least the BBC Iplayer was the first in the feild
[00:34] <neuro> and?
[00:34] <daftykins> that's like saying smallpox got there early
[00:34] <neuro> hehe
[00:34] <brianb> and sky only got the R&D from NDS
[00:34] <neuro> and i'm pretty sure VoD predates iplayer
[00:34] <brianb> which they took over
[00:35] <neuro> lol wat
[00:35] <neuro> you know cisco owns NDS now
[00:35] <brianb> NDS was the R&D arm of the old IBA
[00:35] <neuro> oh dear god
[00:35] <neuro> i'm still being trolled
[00:35] <daftykins> :D
[00:36] <daftykins> there are TLA's being thrown around left right and centre here
[00:36] <brianb> google it
[00:36] <neuro> daftykins: NDS is an israeli company who specialised in satellite TV encryption
[00:36] <brianb> the IBA developed most of the digital TV
[00:36] <neuro> GAAAAH
[00:36] <daftykins> o rry
[00:37] <daftykins> brianb: i would if i was interested, no offence
[00:37] <neuro> the IBA was the old Independent Broadcasting Authority, who regulated independent TV in the UK
[00:37] <brianb> NDS was created from the R&D arm of the IBA
[00:37] <neuro> no, it wasn't
[00:37] <neuro> it was a startup founded in israel
[00:37] <brianb> yes
[00:37] <brianb> it was
[00:38] <brianb> but it also had roots in digitTVmidea
[00:38] <neuro> daftykins: then the IBA became the ITA, then ITC, then Ofcom
[00:38] <neuro> or at least bits of Ofcom
[00:38] <brianb> correction ITA then IBA then ITC and now ofcom
[00:39] <neuro> whatever
[00:39] <brianb> most of the IBA's R&D was sold off and skybsky
[00:40] <neuro> in case you're not actually trolling, you're probably thinking of the IBA developing the DBS stuff that became BSB
[00:40] <brianb> aquired it
[00:40] <brianb> yes they did
[00:40] <neuro> which was nothing to do with DVB-T
[00:40] <brianb> CMAC
[00:41] <neuro> um, no
[00:41] <neuro> D-MAC
[00:41] <brianb> conditional access was developed by the IBA
[00:41] <brianb> CMAC then D-MAC
[00:42] <brianb> hence how NDS was born
[00:42] <neuro> WHAT ARE YOU WIBBLING ABOUT
[00:42] <brianb> btw i have a IBA R&D paper on conditional access
[00:44] <neuro> i don't doubt you have
[00:44] <neuro> but NDS didn't actually have a product until 1991
[00:44] <brianb> and that was the origionation of encryption of digital TV
[00:44] <brianb> IBA was sold off in 1990
[00:45] <brianb> and NDS came out of the sell off
[00:45] <neuro> IBA's regulatory functions went to the ITC and the Radio Authority
[00:45] <neuro> IBA's engineering went to NTL, which was created specifically to take them
[00:45] <brianb> yes but the R&D was sold off and sky got that
[00:46] <neuro> you are bloody minded in your trolling, aren't you?
[00:46] <neuro> i'll give you that
[00:46] <brianb> then they sold bits of it off
[00:46] <brianb> im not a troll
[00:46] <neuro> you're doing a good impression of one
[00:46] <brianb> i know people who worked for all those companies
[00:47] <brianb> so i do speak with some knowledge
[00:47] <neuro> you're speaking with second or third hand knowledge
[00:47] <brianb> no i actually worked with some of them
[00:47] <neuro> so it's second hand then
[00:48] <brianb> well what knowledge are you speaking from then?
[00:48] <neuro> something called Reading
[00:48] <brianb> well that just googling stuff its not actually konwing ppl is it!
[00:49] <neuro> i've read books on UK broadcasting
[00:49] <neuro> are you saying those books are fake?
[00:49] <neuro> NDS was founded in Israel in 1988
[00:49] <neuro> they placed products to market in 1991
[00:49] <brianb> i have worked years ago in UK broadcasting
[00:49] <neuro> News Corp bought NDS in 1992
[00:49] <neuro> Cisco bought NDS last year
[00:49] <brianb> which is more the reading books on it
[00:50] <neuro> NDS had NOTHING to do with the IBA
[00:50] <brianb> News Corp was sky
[00:50] <neuro> unless the IBA moved to israel when no-one was looking
[00:50] <neuro> no, News Corp was a shareholder in Sky
[00:50] <neuro> and always has been
[00:50] <neuro> it is not a majority shareholder
[00:51] <brianb> the designers from the IBA's T&A division and R&D depts went over to News Corp
[00:51] <neuro> you're probably conflating IBA's engineering people at BSB being transferred through the buyout
[00:51] <neuro> NO
[00:51] <neuro> they went to British Sky Broadcasting
[00:51] <brianb> i know ex design enginer from the IBA who is with NDS
[00:51] <neuro> and if ANY of those engineers went to NDS it was very much AFTER the fact
[00:51] <neuro> i don't doubt that
[00:52] <brianb> well im sorry you are incorect
[00:52] <neuro> but saying IBA sold their R&D to News Corp to become NDS is untrue
[00:52] <neuro> utterly untrue
[00:52] <neuro> (in fact IBA sold nothing, it was disbanded as discussed)
[00:52] <brianb> so your an expert on broadcasting then?
[00:52] <neuro> i know a little bit about it
[00:53] <brianb> that does n ot make you an expert does it
[00:53] <neuro> like i know work on NICAM and DVB was spearheaded by BBC R&D
[00:53] <neuro> i at no point claimed to be an expert on anything
[00:53] <neuro> i just remember facts that i have been exposed to
[00:54] <brianb> well the encryption was being worked on with the event of D-MAC
[00:54] <neuro> just because you "know a guy" surely doesn't make you an expert either?
[00:54] <neuro> of course there was encryption being layered onto D-MAC
[00:54] <brianb> i did say i worked in the industry
[00:54] <neuro> otherwise The Movie Channel doesn't exist
[00:54] <neuro> working in an industry doesn't make you an expert in all things in that industry
[00:55] <brianb> and D-MAC came before all the other chanels
[00:55] <neuro> eh?
[00:55] <brianb> as i said most of the R&D on MAC (D-MAC) came from IBA R&D Labs
[00:56] <brianb> which found its was into NDS
[00:56] <brianb> and Tanburg
[00:56] <neuro> NDS were tasked to do the encryption for Sky, which was a PAL based system
[00:57] <brianb> dont forget its 20 odd years of technology since the original stuff was in development
[00:58] <brianb> News Corp was owned by Murdock
[00:58] <brianb> BSB used IBA technology
[00:58] <brianb> then BSB mergered with sky
[00:59] <neuro> and sky at that point were using NDS videocrypt
[00:59] <brianb> and sky wanted pay as you view
[00:59] <neuro> sky HAD scrambling already
[00:59] <brianb> that was developed by the IBA Labs
[00:59] <neuro> NO
[00:59] <neuro> IT
[00:59] <neuro> BLOODY
[00:59] <neuro> WASN'T
[00:59] <brianb> it ws
[00:59] <brianb> was
[01:00] <neuro> i give up
[01:00] <neuro> you're impossible
[01:00] <brianb> D-MAC could be scrambeled
[01:00] <neuro> i didn't say otherwise
[01:00] <neuro> crivvens
[01:00] <brianb> i suggest you look at some online IBA R&D reports
[01:01] <neuro> i suggest you look at videocrypt vs eurocrypt
[01:01] <brianb> and widen you reading scope
[01:01] <neuro> two very different systems
[01:02] <brianb> maybe so same as PAL and NTSC or SECAM are all different but fundamentaly each is a derivative from the NTSC system
[01:02] <neuro> *facepalm*
[01:03] <neuro> look at the facts
[01:03] <neuro> BSB was essentially an IBA venture
[01:03] <neuro> the IBA went with EBU standards, MAC and EuroCrypt
[01:03] <brianb> most TV standards were based upon the EBU
[01:04] <neuro> Sky was a purely commercial venture, and to get to market fast, they went with straight PAL over DBS rather than multiplexing PAL into MAC, and VideoCrypt - a commercial product from NDS
[01:04] <brianb> and most broadcaster were part of the EBU
[01:04] <neuro> shut up
[01:04] <neuro> when BSB went defunct and merged with Sky, both systems were ran concurrently
[01:04] <neuro> then D-MAC/EuroCrypt was deprecated in favour of Pal/VideoCrypt
[01:04] <brianb> BSB did not go defunct
[01:05] <neuro> whatever, shush
[01:05] <neuro> meanwhile, the BBC were working on DVB-T based on MPEG-2 ISO 13818-1
[01:05] <brianb> the uk goverment of the day did not like the IBA and so they gave the green light for the merger
[01:05] <neuro> and it was they who led the UK digital transmission standards, not anyone from the IBA, which didn't exist
[01:06] <neuro> and Sky elected to use DVB-S for Sky Digital
[01:06] <brianb> well the IBA was closed down in 1990
[01:06] <brianb> so what happend to all the R&D engineers then?
[01:06] <neuro> they went to NTL or got jobs elsewhere
[01:07] <brianb> hold on
[01:07] <neuro> or ended up working for BSkyB
[01:07] <neuro> if they were working for BSB in the first place
[01:07] <brianb> NTL was set up for the transmission are which was not the same as the R&D arm
[01:08] <brianb> two different things
[01:09] <neuro> are you saying that IBA Engineering only dealt with tx?
[01:09] <brianb> the IBA split into three divisions - regulation hence ITC/Ofcom, the Radio Authorty, and engineering which had R&D and transmission
[01:09] <neuro> thank you for repeating what i said earlier
[01:10] <brianb> so the people involved in transmission when over to NTL, and those in R&D when to News Corp
[01:11] <neuro> i'm going to say this in small words so that hopefully it will get through to you
[01:11] <neuro> News Corp did not own BSkyB
[01:11] <brianb> or a holding company set up that changed its name a few times
[01:11] <neuro> they only had a shareholding in it
[01:11] <brianb> and split into other groups
[01:11] <brianb> so who are New Corp then?
[01:11] <brianb> who owns New Corp?
[01:12] <neuro> what's that got to do with anything?
[01:12] <brianb> NEWS...
[01:12] <daftykins> you two got beds to get to? ;)
[01:13] <neuro> i *was* going to go on a coding run tonight :)
[01:13] <neuro> got me some web stats to process
[01:13] <neuro> all kinds of bash+perl evils
[01:14] <brianb> so what industray do you work in then?
[01:14] <neuro> what does it matter?
[01:14] <daftykins> neuro: all-nighter?
[01:15] <neuro> yeah
[01:15] <neuro> i slept earlier mind
[01:15] <daftykins> ah :)
[01:15] <daftykins> i tend to give up ~mid-day when i try to pull those now
[01:15] <daftykins> plus i'm just too weird on the 'high' of no sleep
[01:15] <neuro> yeah, i may have problems about 1-2pm
[01:28] <neuro> wow, google are "retiring" chrome frame
[01:28] <neuro> i didn't know it still existed
[01:28] <daftykins> haha
[01:28] <daftykins> must be due to that engine change
[01:28] <daftykins> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FVi7n-6txcg#t=106s
[01:28] <daftykins> for your entertainment pleasure
[01:28] <daftykins> although do check your volume
[01:29] <neuro> lol
[01:31] <neuro> worth it for the casablanca bit
[01:31] <neuro> the new batman really was a crap detective though
[01:32] <neuro> Batman Begins: "WHERE ARE THE DRUGS GOIIINNNNNGGGGG?"
[01:32] <neuro> The Dark Knight: "WHERE IS SHEEE?!"
[01:32] <neuro> The Dark Knight Rises: "WHERE'S THE TRGGGGGRRRR?!"
[01:39] <daftykins> :D
[01:39] <daftykins> i wonder if Christian Bale had to have throat sweets on standby though
[01:39] <neuro> or some lemsip
[07:06] <diplo> Morning all
[07:27] <MooDoo> morning all
[07:27] <MooDoo> czajkowski: congrats x
[07:27] <MartijnVdS> congrats?
[07:28] <MooDoo> http://www.lczajkowski.com/2013/06/13/a-bite-of-something-new/
[07:29] <MartijnVdS> ah, czajkowski: congrats :)
[07:43] <popey> Morning all
[07:43] <MartijnVdS> morning popey
[07:43] <MartijnVdS> how are you today? :)
[07:43] <TheOpenSourcerer> sigh... Another kernel update another reboot :-(
[07:43] <popey> Tickety boo!
[07:44] <popey> yeah, damn those security updates keeping us safe!
[07:44] <MartijnVdS> Still no 3.10(-rc?) in saucy
[07:44] <TheOpenSourcerer> lol
[07:46] <hd5770> Morning!!1
[07:46] <MooDoo> oh your supposed to reboot after a kernel update....rats
[07:47] <MooDoo> ;)
[07:47] <MooDoo> problem with running a minecraft server, you can't instantly reboot lol
[07:47] <TheOpenSourcerer> Yeah - whatever happened to in-process upgrades that were promised to us by these free software engineers!
[07:48] <TheOpenSourcerer> What do we want? No more reboots! When do we want it? Now!
[07:48] <popey> they exist
[07:48] <popey> if you pay ☻
[07:48] <czajkowski> TheOpenSourcerer: they exist except for kernel I thought
[07:48] <popey> no, they exist for kernel too
[07:48] <popey> pay up!
[07:48] <czajkowski> ah
[07:48] <TheOpenSourcerer> hey czajkowski - kernel too ;-)
[07:48] <popey> http://www.ksplice.com/
[07:48] <MartijnVdS> popey: but is it integrated in Ubuntu?
[07:49] <popey> it works on ubuntu as I understand it
[07:49] <TheOpenSourcerer> Oooh never realised it was "proprietary".
[07:49] <AlanBell> it is oracles toy now
[07:50] <AlanBell> where good projects go to die
[07:58] <MartijnVdS> Kernel security updates are great, but why do I need 600 emails on the security list about them?
[08:00] <SuperMatt> sometimes I can't tell if a security update is actuall required, because the packages are still "held back"
[08:00] <MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: uh.. no
[08:01] <MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: held back means that you need to "dist-upgrade" instead of "upgrade" because apt won't install extra packages otherwise :)
[08:01] <SuperMatt> but they're still required?
[08:01] <MartijnVdS> yes
[08:01] <diplo> gl in your new job czajkowski
[08:01] <SuperMatt> curses, more renoots
[08:02] <MartijnVdS> kernel updates can cause an API version change, which creates a new package
[08:02] <SuperMatt> *reboots
[08:02] <TheOpenSourcerer> back in a mo - goes for a reboot & some coffee
[08:33] <dwatkins> I daren't reboot my server, I can only bring eth0 up manually with the 'ip' command
[08:34] <MartijnVdS> dwatkins: why? what's wrong with /etc/network/interfaces
[08:34] <mungbean> my desktop has gone into death spiral :(
[08:34] <MartijnVdS> deathtop
[08:34] <mungbean> alt-f1 login is taking 5 mins
[08:35] <JamesTait> Good morning all, happy Friday and happy Blood Donor Day! :-D
[08:35] <directhex> i'll happily donate blood!*
[08:35] <directhex> (* note: i have a phobia of needles & pass out at minor blood tests**)
[08:35] <popey> Me too, they don't want mine ☹
[08:35] <directhex> (** also i have shingles)
[08:36] <MartijnVdS> popey: lycanthropy, right?
[08:36] <czajkowski> not seen many donate places over here considering it's donor week
[08:36] <mungbean> i'm bit underweight and tend to get dizzy in normal circumstances
[08:36] <mungbean> probably not the best idea
[08:37] <dwatkins> MartijnVdS: I'm not sure, I've checked it doesn't have two sets of default router, but maybe there's something else that's causing this - where does whatever uses the file log? http://hastebin.com/nogiteyawe.hs
[08:37] <dwatkins> d'oh - it does have two default routers, MartijnVdS *slaps face*
[08:37] <popey> hah
[08:37] <dwatkins> I must have been tired yesterday to miss that
[08:37] <MartijnVdS> dwatkins: you don't need the "network" bit either
[08:37] <MartijnVdS> dwatkins: that's calculated from address + netmask
[08:37] <MartijnVdS> broadcast is also the default
[08:38] <dwatkins> thanks, where should I have been looking for a "you shouldn't have two gateway lines in this file" message?
[08:38] <czajkowski> hmm I think I want a fried egg sandwich
[08:38] <popey> the network looks wrong
[08:38] <MartijnVdS> dwatkins: "ifup eth0" ?
[08:39] <dwatkins> I'm pretty sure it didn't have two gateway lines yesterday, but I can't do anything to it right now as it's remote from me.
[08:39] <dwatkins> popey: yes, thanks
[08:39] <dwatkins> I was at a bit of a loss, so copied and pasted parts of an example file, originally it was only about 4 lines
[08:39] <dwatkins> I'll check again and see if the problem happens with just the bare minimum of information
[08:40] <mungbean> death spiral was firefox-caused...
[08:42] <christel> i am not very fond of needles either... luckily they dont want my blood atm!
[08:43] <christel> (Anyone who has ever injected themselves with drugs. -- does that refer only to illegal drugs do you think or would it also rule me out for having had to inject heparin for 2 weeks following childbirth in the past?)
[08:44] <mungbean> i think they mean druggies who share needles
[08:44] <MooDoo> my dad had to inject himself with warfrin every day for 6 weeks, he had a fear of needles, he doesn't now lol
[08:45] <popey> bah, i want a coffee but the cleaner is here #firstworldproblem
[08:45] <MartijnVdS> They have pills to stop blood from clotting now though
[08:45] <christel> MooDoo: hehe the first week or so was ok, then i ran out of non-bruised areas to inject (it made me bruise something mad)
[08:46] <MooDoo> ouch
[08:46] <christel> MartijnVdS: ah but the NHS is mean, they like inflicting pain on you
[08:46] <MartijnVdS> christel: you poke a hole and inject something that makes sure the bleeding doesn't stop.. ouch
[08:47] <TheOpenSourcerer> my brother was a diabetic from the age of 3 until he died around 40. His arms and legs were hard as nails by the time he was an adult. He found it very hard to get a needle in anywhere.
[08:47] <christel> TheOpenSourcerer: ouch!
[08:48]  * czajkowski has stupidly deep veins that go hiding when I need to have a needle put in me, more often than not it ends up going in via my hand 
[08:48] <MooDoo> i used to hate needles, until i had to have teeth out at the dentis.
[08:48] <mungbean> goes someowhere else until grim convos have ended
[08:50] <MooDoo> mungbean: you have a new born, I'm sure you can cope with gross ;) hit the pickalilly poo yet? lol
[08:50] <TheOpenSourcerer> Who watched "Life of cats" last night then :-D
[08:50] <TheOpenSourcerer> We have a "Sooty" too.
[08:51]  * dwatkins tries breaking /etc/network/interfaces on a virtual machine to see if the symptoms match
[08:51] <mungbean> MooDoo: there is gross and arrrrgh!
[08:52] <MooDoo> lol
[08:52] <mungbean> ick is OK
[08:53] <popey> made me laugh more than it should http://i.imgur.com/UnPSGU7.gif
[08:53] <MartijnVdS> popey: OUCH
[08:53] <MooDoo> ouch
[08:53] <Laney> TheOpenSourcerer: missed it - worth catching up on?
[08:54] <TheOpenSourcerer> Yeah - it was interesting and entertaining
[08:54] <popey> it was fun
[08:54] <TheOpenSourcerer> Tonight there is moar cats too
[08:54] <TheOpenSourcerer> A diary followup
[08:55] <mungbean> bad advert for beer that gif
[09:00] <MartijnVdS> watching the cat program.. "We now go over to Alan, the technical expert"
[09:00] <MartijnVdS> it IS a conspiracy, isn't it/
[09:00] <MartijnVdS> ?
[09:00] <TheOpenSourcerer> lol
[09:16] <brobostigon> good morning everyone,
[09:17] <MooDoo> brobostigon: hello there. how are you today?
[09:17] <davmor2> Morning all
[09:17] <brobostigon> MooDoo: morning, could be better. and you?
[09:17] <brobostigon> morning davmor2
[09:17] <MooDoo> morning davmor2
[09:17] <MooDoo> brobostigon: last day before my jollies so feeling ok at the moment.
[09:18] <davmor2> MooDoo: brobostigon: Happy friday
[09:18] <brobostigon> MooDoo: :)
[09:18] <MooDoo> davmor2: thank you sir
[09:18] <mungbean> any postgres users help me with ERROR:  encoding UTF8 does not match locale en_GB
[09:18] <MooDoo> davmor2: it's my boys second visit to his new school he's starting in sept....almost had a tear earlier ;)
[09:18] <mungbean> trying to create db with utf8 encoding (cos i was told to by the docs)
[09:19] <davmor2> MooDoo: Wuss
[09:19] <MooDoo> davmor2: ah shut it.
[09:19] <MooDoo> ;)
[09:20] <davmor2> MooDoo: :D  sorry couldn't resist I'm sure every parent is the same :)
[09:21] <christel> MooDoo: aww :)
[09:21] <MooDoo> davmor2: i know you by now, now get back in your pit ;)
[09:21] <MooDoo> christel: you should see a pic of him in his uniform lol awwww bless
[09:22] <brobostigon> morning christel :)
[09:22] <christel> hiya brobostigon :)
[09:52] <popey> directhex: does windows phone wake from off if an alarm is set?
[09:54] <bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
[09:54] <davmor2> bigcalm: Happy Friday
[09:54] <MooDoo> hello bigcalm
[09:55] <bigcalm> Happy indeed
[09:55] <bigcalm> Nice to see autumn comes early this year
[09:57] <davmor2> bigcalm: we decided to bypass summer this year who needs all that carcinogenic sun anyway
[09:57] <MooDoo> bigcalm: well as long as it's sunny next week in norfolk, that's all i'm bothered about
[09:58] <davmor2> MooDoo: ubuntu phone say NO!  tuesday and wednesday will be sunny rest of the week unsettled but Ubuntu Phone also update quite often too so it might change yet :)
[10:00] <MooDoo> davmor2: shush you, or at least lie to me
[10:01] <davmor2> MooDoo: I gave you 2 days of hope :)
[10:01] <MooDoo> davmor2: :( :p
[10:01]  * Laney eyes the internets
[10:01] <davmor2> MooDoo: to be fair though norfolk isn't really nextdoor to Wolverhampton so it might be better over there :)
[10:01] <Laney> anyone getting crap pings to bitfolk?
[10:02] <MooDoo> davmor2: we'll see if it rains i'll just make sure minecraft and tuxcart are installed on the laptops for the kids
[10:02] <Laney> http://smokeping.arrakis.se/smokeping.cgi?target=bitfolk
[10:02] <Laney> ah it has recovered
[10:40] <czajkowski> hmm what to do before I leave, bump all scores on ppas :)
[10:40] <czajkowski> or find accounts and play with them :)
[10:41] <Laney> give me arm and an excellent score on all of my ppas
[10:41] <Laney> or alternatively unselect require virtualized builders
[10:41] <Laney> K THX BYE
[10:41] <czajkowski> Laney: anyone can have ARM on stuff :)
[10:42] <MooDoo> czajkowski: eat cake and sit with your feet on the desk.  or take your replacement to the pub and bitch about everyone ;)
[10:42] <Laney> yeah I have it on one :P
[10:42] <czajkowski> I had lots of cake yesterday
[10:42] <czajkowski> two cakes in fact
[10:43] <davmor2> MooDoo: see how well I am preping you to have a lovely holiday rather than one with kids screaming blue murder ;)
[10:43]  * czajkowski stabs davmor2 
[10:43] <czajkowski> *grin*
[10:43] <MooDoo> czajkowski: new job start on monday or are you having rest?
[10:44] <MooDoo> davmor2: she's into you mate ;)
[10:44] <czajkowski> starting Sunday morning @4am when I head to the aiport to fly to NYC
[10:44] <MartijnVdS> MooDoo: MongoDB, of course it's a REST
[10:44] <czajkowski> MartijnVdS: ok you, take yourself to the naughty step for that one
[10:44] <MooDoo> czajkowski: i don't know why i asked when it's on your blog lol
[10:44] <davmor2> czajkowski: hark at you getting all cocky now you don't have to keep asking me to look at stuff :P
[10:44] <MartijnVdS> czajkowski: :(
[10:44] <MooDoo> hello all, i think we all need to give czajkowski a loving *stab* ;)
[10:45]  * MooDoo *stabs* czajkowski 
[10:45] <MartijnVdS> http://www.weebls-stuff.com/toons/Mr+Stabby/
[10:45] <czajkowski> davmor2: let be honest you'll miss me
[10:45] <czajkowski> :p
[10:46] <MooDoo> lol
[10:46] <davmor2> czajkowski: I will it's true, I'll just have to annoy you on here instead
[10:46] <davmor2> czajkowski: prod
[10:46] <czajkowski> davmor2: *stab*
[10:46] <davmor2> czajkowski: prod
[10:46] <czajkowski> davmor2: *stab*
[10:46] <davmor2> czajkowski: prod
[10:46] <czajkowski> davmor2: *stab*
[10:46] <davmor2> czajkowski: prod
[10:46] <czajkowski> davmor2: *stab*
[10:46] <davmor2> czajkowski: prod
[10:46] <czajkowski> davmor2: *stab*
[10:47] <Laney> my god
[10:47] <MooDoo> oh dear i've started something
[10:47] <czajkowski> Laney: yes you called
[10:53] <directhex> popey, i think so. i was pretty hung over last time it came up
[10:57] <bigcalm> On occasion, after booting my machine, dash appears behind existing windows. To fix it I have to disable/enable the unity plugin via ccsm. Does this happen to anybody else?
[10:57] <MartijnVdS> no, but the dash is VERY slow for me
[10:58] <MartijnVdS> when it's open, even videos that are playing fine become choppy
[10:58] <davmor2> bigcalm: Nope but then I'm not on a mutli monitor display
[10:59] <bigcalm> davmor2: not 100% sure that is the reason, but it might be. 12.10 though
[11:00] <davmor2> bigcalm: I thought you upgraded to 13.04
[11:00] <bigcalm> The laptop, yes
[11:20] <Laney> anyone ever used the usb output functionality of a cheapy ion turntable with ubuntu?
[11:23] <MartijnVdS> probably
[11:23] <MartijnVdS> USB audio is pretty standardf
[11:23] <MartijnVdS> I've used the Sony turntable's USB out
[11:23] <TheOpenSourcerer> Laney: I have a KAM USB Turntable but never got very good sound recording quality the last time I tried it (but that was probably on 10.04)
[11:23] <Laney> just use audacity I guess
[11:23] <TheOpenSourcerer> It was also over a 30m USB cable ;-)
[11:24] <bigcalm> o.O
[11:24] <Laney> the missus got her dad a vinyl for his birthday and wants to put it on cd also
[11:24] <MartijnVdS> Laney: if it's new, it should come with a voucher for MP3s
[11:24] <Laney> it does not
[11:24] <Laney> (but is)
[11:24] <MartijnVdS> Bad label ;)
[11:25] <TheOpenSourcerer> I lent my turntable to my Dad just after I got it for a Christmas present probably 5 years ago. Dad had it for 2 years and ripped all his vinyl. Inc. 78 RPM stuff.
[11:25] <Laney> yeah, it's atlantic records
[11:25] <Laney> you'd think they could do it right
[11:32] <Laney> she says audacity works (H)
[11:35] <directhex> my dad ripped his vinyl with audacity too
[11:35] <directhex> it's the tool the guides that come with usb turntables recommend
[12:58]  * ^2fC goes to restart for new updates on Ubuntu 13.04 :) yay Steam update.
[13:22] <redtape|renegade> OT | Not a lot of ppl have time for C. Pirillo , but if yur in Hyde Park (not the soap box end) | ~NR the Itailian Fountains at 13:00pm | then give a shout out to the community .. :: http://youtu.be/U7hlSqD2avg?t=1m25s ::
[13:23] <MooDoo> redtape|renegade: i'm so fed up I can't go and see him, i think he rocks :D
[13:23] <redtape|renegade> **italian
[13:23] <redtape|renegade> MooDoo: I know .. I told him to use my spotify a/c if he likes ..
[13:23] <MooDoo> sweeet
[13:24] <mungbean> italian? thought he was jewish
[13:24] <redtape|renegade> no .. orig. Sthrn Italy.
[13:26] <MartijnVdS> redtape|renegade: etaoin shrdlu ?
[13:27] <redtape|renegade> .. well my Lazy Mug arrived today .. just in  time 4 Fathers' Day .. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/-/390606701825
[13:29]  * redtape|renegade scurries off to do his name tags'
[13:29] <redtape|renegade> leaves.
[13:31] <davmor2> bigcalm: I just found a new mechanic for my car :) He is reasonable priced and has just done a load of work on my car.  I haz a rear wiper now and everything :)
[13:31] <MartijnVdS> davmor2: luxury!
[13:31] <davmor2> MartijnVdS: it is :)
[13:35] <bigcalm> davmor2: ooo, get you. I should get the lock on the boot's glass panel looked at on mine
[13:36] <davmor2> bigcalm: it's possible just a faulty micro switch
[13:38] <^2fC> Afternoon :)
[13:39] <^2fC> Anyone know if you can move the Task Bar in Ubuntu 13.04 to the bottom of my Screen? instead on the left hand side (Default) :/
[13:40] <popey> nope
[13:43] <mungbean> used to be possible. don't know anymore ^2fC
[13:43] <davmor2> bigcalm: He has done a load of work on it,  things like do you know your turbo isn't working the vacuum pipe was blocked I've cleaned it out for you no charge on that :)
[13:45] <bigcalm> That sounds like it could have been painful later in life
[13:46] <bigcalm> Did you not notice the lack of acceleration?
[13:47] <^2fC> Ouch!
[13:47] <^2fC> What about Compiz popey, mungbean ?
[13:47] <popey> what about it?
[13:48] <^2fC> Would that not let me move my Icons to the bottom? or maybe move the while taskbar :\
[13:48] <mungbean> ^2fC: it *used to* be possible, but not official http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kYH13qQZZe8
[13:48] <^2fC> :(
[13:48] <^2fC> So you can only make the Icons smaller?
[13:48] <^2fC> There to big, and when having alot of tasks open it gets annoying :\
[13:49] <^2fC> Must be a way, theres always a way if it could be done previously then it can be done again ;) also Windows has the option :O
[13:50]  * ^2fC did say he wouldnt boot another OEM Windows disc.
[13:50] <mungbean> ^2fC: there are plenty other desktop environments available
[13:50] <mungbean> i use elementary
[13:50] <mungbean> on top of ubuntu
[13:50] <^2fC> mungbean: Ah nice ok ok.
[13:52] <^2fC> ah cool
[13:54] <^2fC> Also can you use Compiz in 13.04 still? Like 3DCube etc.. the effects when closing Windows/Tabs/
[13:56] <popey> yes, 13.04 ships with compiz by default
[13:56] <^2fC> popey: ah nice, well I just checked in USC and it says its not installed just wanted to confirm before downloading/installing it...
[13:57] <^2fC> How do I open it?
[13:57] <popey> unity is a compiz plugin
[13:57] <popey> do you mean, how do you configure it?
[13:57] <^2fC> Ah yes, sorry.
[13:57] <^2fC> Configure*
[13:58] <popey> you can install Unity Tweak Tool which is quite good for configuring unity
[13:58] <popey> there's also compizconfig-settings-manager, but be careful with that, it's possible to break unity with it
[13:58] <^2fC> Ok I should try it :)
[13:58] <^2fC> popey: Broke lots of previous versions of Buntu :p
[13:59] <^2fC> xrestart <3
[13:59] <popey> never heard of xrestart
[14:00] <^2fC> \o/
[14:00] <^2fC> Same thing you know what I mean ;)
[14:00] <^2fC> Restarting the compiz..
[14:00] <popey> ah
[14:01] <^2fC> I forgot alot on Ubuntu as its been a while :D
[14:02] <^2fC> Im a noob so go easy on me :P
[14:02] <AlanBell> ^2fC: these days they are very big on "opinionated design"
[14:02] <^2fC> AlanBell: yeah :)
[14:02] <^2fC> I miss the old versions of buntu tbh.
[14:02] <AlanBell> so stuff like the launcher goes on the left, and that is where it goes
[14:02] <mungbean> anyone looking to get model railway for their kids? good sale on here: http://www.themodeller.com/Products/Caledonian-Belle-Train-Set__HOR-R1151.aspx
[14:03] <AlanBell> notification bubbles shall not be clickable, and they will be top right
[14:03] <mungbean> of course there are digital sets too :P
[14:03] <^2fC> AlanBell: thanks :)
[14:04] <^2fC> ooo auto hide I like..
[14:13] <popey> notifications are clickable on the phone ☻
[14:43] <knightwise> hey everyone
[14:43] <MartijnVdS> hi knightwise
[14:44] <knightwise> Hey MartijnVdS
[14:44] <knightwise> how are you today
[14:45] <knightwise> does anyone know anything about grub ?
[14:45] <knightwise> i've moved some partitions on my Macbook Pro (i dual boot osx and ubuntu)
[14:46] <knightwise> now when I want to launch Ubuntu (i use REFIT as a bootloader) it give me the error /boot/grub/x86_64-efi/normal.mod not found
[14:46] <knightwise> and it drops me back to a grub resque prompt
[14:46] <knightwise> anyone got any ideas ?
[14:49] <directhex> knightwise, did you use the refit option to rebuild your shadow mbr partition table?
[14:49] <knightwise> directhex: I'm not sure , do I do that in the main menu ?
[14:49] <knightwise> (of refit ? )
[14:49] <directhex> knightwise, yes
[14:49] <knightwise> holdon , booting into refit
[14:50] <knightwise> id that the efi shell or the partitioning tool ?
[14:50] <directhex> knightwise, you have two partition tables - a "real" one which is GPT, and a fake copy which is MBR. if you moved partitions around, but the fake MBR table still points to the old locations, then it'll screw up when booting due to not finding required data
[14:50] <knightwise> allright so ... i start the partitioning tool ?
[14:51] <MartijnVdS> gparted, I guess?
[14:51] <knightwise> it says both the gpt and the mbr tables are syncronised
[14:51] <directhex> knightwise, hm
[14:51] <directhex> not that then
[14:51] <knightwise> refit has a very basic built in partitioning tool
[14:51] <knightwise> but its just for syncing those two partition tables
[14:52] <knightwise> I can try to remove and reinstall refit.
[14:58] <knightwise> nope :( same problem
[15:00] <knightwise> Damn
[15:00] <JohnRobert> hi
[15:01] <MooDoo> hi
[15:06] <knightwise> grrr :(
[15:06] <knightwise> damn :( Now i need to reinstall 12.04 :(
[15:06] <JohnRobert> .
[15:06] <knightwise> and it was such a smooth running system :(
[15:09] <mungbean> anyone use postgres?
[15:11] <diplo> We're just about to start using it mungbean, quite new to it ourselves.. wassup ?
[15:11] <AlanBell> mungbean: indirectly, we have stuff that runs on it, but we rarely do anything at the database level with it
[15:11] <mungbean> trying to understand user accounts
[15:12] <mungbean> following instructions that say change Ident to md5
[15:12] <mungbean> then add a blah user
[15:12] <mungbean> but does that disable root/postfgres user?
[15:12] <mungbean> ah, Inside the psql shell you can give the DB user postgres a password:
[15:12] <mungbean> ALTER USER postgres PASSWORD 'newPassword';
[15:13] <mungbean> sed -i 's;127.0.0.1/32.*;127.0.0.1/32          md5;' /var/lib/pgsql/data/pg_hba.conf
[15:14] <MartijnVdS> mungbean: there's a lot of info in /usr/share/doc/postgresql-common, I think
[15:16] <diplo> pgAdmin for a GUI if you want it as well
[15:16] <diplo> Not done much with users yet here though, it's what we're about to start working on
[15:17] <mungbean> psql session hangs, may be DNS related
[15:19] <MartijnVdS> DNS is for people who don't have a head for numbers
[15:20] <mungbean> i used to mandate that no server can be deployed without A and PTR
[15:20] <mungbean> there is no such policy here
[15:25] <BigRedS> mungbean: I've got as far as generating a list of servers in that state
[15:25] <BigRedS> but not quite as far as fixing them
[15:32] <mungbean> i have no tomcat startup.sh , how rude
[15:33] <mungbean> excluded from tomcat package on centos..weird
[19:14] <dwatkins> MartijnVdS: in case you're there, you were right - ifup brings up eth0, but at boot-time, I guess that's not being called for some reason
[19:30] <dwatkins>  simple fix: add "auth eth0" to /etc/network/interfaces :D thanks!
[19:39] <directhex> auto?
[19:43] <dwatkins> oops, yes directhex
[19:43] <dwatkins> as per http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1019056
[19:43] <dwatkins> I clearly write "auth" too often...
[19:53] <Azelphur> finally getting Django to do cool things, yay \o/
[19:54] <diplo> Like what Azelphur ?
[19:54] <diplo> Keep meaning to play with it myself
[19:54] <Azelphur> diplo: I got Django-CMS and Zinnia running, with Zinnia tied into Django-CMS, running my own template
[19:54] <Azelphur> and Zinnia inherits the template from Django-CMS
[19:54] <diplo> not heard of zinnia, googling
[19:57] <diplo> Seems nice, may have to play
[20:00] <diplo> Any LDAP experts in here ?
[20:28] <mungbean> https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/the-great-suspender/klbibkeccnjlkjkiokjodocebajanakg?hl=en
[20:28] <mungbean> interesting chrime addon
[20:32] <popey> very
[20:34] <AlanBell> chrime sounds like something RMS would call it :)
[20:38] <bigcalm> Good evening peeps :)
[20:39] <popey> pip pip
[20:39] <popey> fancy some gaming later?
[20:39]  * popey has a meeting for the next ~20 mins then nothing
[20:39] <popey> wifey is out
[20:40] <bigcalm> Sure
[20:40] <bigcalm> I was about to fire it up anyway
[20:40] <popey> heh
[20:40] <bigcalm> Hayley is watching Don't Tell the Bride
[20:40] <dwatkins> that sounds like a car crash show
[20:41] <bigcalm> dwatkins: I'm keeping her company by using my laptop in the sitting room. But I have headphones in. Occasionally get distracted by the moving images but force myself back to the laptop
[20:41] <bigcalm> I really hope it doesn't have an influence upon our wedding
[20:56] <englis> hello
[20:56] <englis> !!
[20:57] <popey> lo
[20:57] <englis> I have a problem installing Ubuntu
[20:58] <englis> Power outage during installation
[20:58] <englis> ؟؟
[20:59] <englis> Device now does not work
[21:08]  * popey pokes bigcalm