[00:11] <OvenWerks> zequence: I was able to get our menu to work in lxde. It appears they don't recognise the Exclude element :P  Also I found out that while both xfce and KDE accept a bollian value of YES or NO, Lxde must have true or false (which is actually correct)
[00:12] <OvenWerks> I will up grade my package and try it against all the DEs I can.
[00:14] <OvenWerks> I can't do gnome shell testing till I get my wife another computer... But I will test xfce, lxde, and KDE.
[00:14] <OvenWerks> I will try installing Mint which has cinnamon and Mate.
[00:19] <OvenWerks> zequence: I have been thinking about grub configs. I am thinking that the way grub should be set up is that any partition that is running should update grub in the same way.
[00:22] <OvenWerks> That is, assuming partitions sda5, sda6 and sda7 all have a different OS. If a new kernel is installed, grub will change whatever that new kernel is to the new default at the top of the grub menu.
[00:24] <OvenWerks> It may be better for the upgrade/update to always put the latest kernel of sda5 first, then sda6 and sda7 so that they are always in the same order.
[00:25] <OvenWerks> Or it may be better to ask the user which OS is the master OS and run the grub config from that partition. (assuming it is not a windows partition :)
[00:26] <OvenWerks> The time to ask the user is at install time, with an explanation of what works or doesn't
[00:26] <OvenWerks> The stuff about grub is just random thoughts... so don't take it too seriously.
[00:28] <OvenWerks> If I have time, I will try to set a grub config up that does such a thing.
[00:29]  * OvenWerks is getting tired of seeing his grub menu with three or four entries that all look the same and may change meaning from day to day.
[02:18] <smartboyhw> Hey guys, I'm back!!!
[02:23] <smartboyhw> OvenWerks: Why the nick change?
[02:32] <OvenWerks> hey smartboyhw how it goes?
[02:33] <OvenWerks> I am using screen and irssi
[02:33] <OvenWerks> There is already a "Len" around here so...
[02:34] <smartboyhw> OvenWerks: Where's len-dt or len-1304
[02:34] <smartboyhw> ?
[02:36] <smartboyhw> Len-nb even
[02:36] <OvenWerks> I am not using xchat on a machine any more
[02:36] <OvenWerks> I am ssh into my server and running irssi in a screen session.
[02:37] <smartboyhw> OvenWerks: Oh. BTW since you are familiar with desktops, can you try to answer [[_]'s question in user chan? 
[02:37] <OvenWerks> I can detach from it in one place a reattach in another
[02:37] <smartboyhw> Good…
[02:38] <smartboyhw> Any Ubuntu Studio items I have been missing throughout my exam leave?
[02:41] <OvenWerks> I actually have my own ppa... it has a version of ubuntustudio-menu on it
[02:41] <smartboyhw> OvenWerks: Good;)
[02:41] <OvenWerks> You have probably see the emails about DEs
[02:41] <OvenWerks> I just today got our menu to work well on lubuntu
[02:42] <smartboyhw> Hurray!!!
[02:42] <OvenWerks> Now I have to remake the package and test it on everything else :)
[04:51] <zequence> OvenWerks: If you have multiple OSs installed in paralelell, you should only have one GRUB
[04:51] <zequence> and it can only be updated from the OS that had it originally installed
[04:51] <zequence> at least in the MBR
[04:51] <zequence> nice to hear about your progression with the menu
[04:52] <zequence> it's really becoming a generic tool
[05:26] <OvenWerks> zequence: I understand I can work around the way grub is set up... the kernel installer doesn't seem to understand though. I guess I should have set each new partition to install grub in it's own boot record. then update from my master partition. The problem is that there is only one grub partition, but many partitions that think they own it.
[05:26] <OvenWerks> Anyway, I'll stop complaining... better stuff to do. 
[05:26] <OvenWerks> Bed time anyway.
[05:32] <zequence> it would be nice to be able to not install GRUB at all
[09:15] <zequence> woops, we better get in Ardour3 before june 20th
[09:16] <zequence> - debian import freeze
[09:40] <smartboyhw> zequence: ping
[09:51] <zequence> hello smartboyhw. All done with your exams now?
[09:51] <smartboyhw> zequence: Yep.
[09:52] <zequence> I'm sure you did well
[09:53] <smartboyhw> zequence: Some…
[09:58] <zequence> smartboyhw: you just pinged me to say hello? :)
[10:00] <smartboyhw> zequence: Not just that. For the DEs, I am even thinking of mininasing metas.
[10:01] <smartboyhw> We can just install ubuntustudio-audio and such (except -desktop) + the DE's -minimal package…
[10:01] <smartboyhw> Make a program to do precisely that…
[10:02] <zequence> if you're thinking about ubuntu-minimal, that is the base for the entire Ubuntu OS
[10:03] <smartboyhw> There's lubuntu-minimal or kubuntu-minimal I think
[10:03] <smartboyhw> (at least Lubuntu has)
[10:03] <zequence> well, it's just a meta package for the core system components that you need for the OS
[10:04] <zequence> if you want to just have a kernel and the GNU tools, that is all you need
[10:04] <zequence> no DE involved
[10:04] <smartboyhw> zequence: No no lubuntu-minimal means the DE (without the apps)
[10:04] <zequence> ah, ok. Well, they have their own setup for that
[10:05] <zequence> We're suposed to make ubiquity have some options for us during install
[10:05] <zequence> so that the user can decide to not install some of the metas
[10:05] <smartboyhw> Yep
[10:05] <zequence> or even none of them
[10:06] <zequence> but we don't need a ubuntustudio-minimal package for that
[10:06] <zequence> it's just add some code to the installer
[10:06] <cub> About Ardour3, if it's included in Debian, will they use the source code and package it? Since Ardour have started to charge for it?
[10:06] <zequence> I'm supposed to do that, but if someone else wants to take shot, be my guest
[10:06] <smartboyhw> zequence: No no no...
[10:07] <zequence> cub: ardour3 is not released yet for Debian. There's just a git source repo set up for it, and it's currently not up to date
[10:08] <zequence> someone will need to update it and prepare it for release in Debian
[10:08] <smartboyhw> I mean when we make the LXDE meta in ubiquity, we only need to include lubuntu-minimal + ubuntustudio-(all except desktop)
[10:08] <zequence> then, we will need to sync it from there
[10:08] <zequence> smartboyhw: Ah, ok
[10:09] <zequence> smartboyhw: It would be good if we could just use the existing DE metas for Lubuntu, Kubuntu, etc, and add only our menu, workflows and artwork
[10:09] <zequence> but, the problem is, we need to have our settings by default
[10:09] <zequence> so, probably we need our own session for those
[10:09] <smartboyhw> zequence: Oh yeah…
[10:10] <zequence> so, not sure which is the best way. Either we copy their stuff into new metas of our own, or we depend on theirs and find a way to override their default settings
[10:10] <zequence> I'm currently having a look at ardour3
[10:12] <smartboyhw> zequence: Great. How about -rt?
[10:12] <smartboyhw> linux-rt that is
[10:15] <zequence> I haven't done any work on -rt at all yet
[10:16] <zequence> I'm kind of waiting until after 13.10 with that
[10:20] <smartboyhw> ok
[10:48] <smartboyhw> Hey DarkEra
[10:48] <DarkEra> heya smartboyhw :)
[10:48] <DarkEra> how are you doing?
[10:48] <smartboyhw> good
[10:49] <DarkEra> ;)
[10:59] <cub> zequence, do you know if madeinkobaia is doing a banner for the Youtube channel as well?
[10:59] <smartboyhw> cub: A (late) welcome to the Ubuntu Studio team;)
[11:00] <zequence> cub: Yes, he's working on it
[11:00] <cub> thanks, I suppose I'm just a hang around still ;)
[11:00] <cub> great, the G+ banner got a bit messed up by the youtube links and icons
[11:01] <smartboyhw> Uh oh
[11:07] <zequence> the youtube banner is a litte special. It has three modes: TV, desktop and mobile
[11:07] <zequence> TV is full size, just like G+
[11:07] <zequence> desktop and mobile are both cropped in different ways
[11:08] <zequence> I just added the existing G+ banner for the time being. it was impossible to make the text fit better, as the banner needs to be specifically designed for youtube
[11:18] <cub> yes why make it simple to the users. :D
[11:19] <cub> especially since youtube and g+ should be able to integrate
[11:32] <zequence> probably better to use the youtube banner for everything else
[11:48] <cub> if that's possible. Every site seems to have different settings so one might end up doing one banner for each anyway
[11:48] <cub> but if there is a template it should be quick to make a new one for the next one, like Twitter
[12:40] <smartboyhw> zequence: To confirm, we aren't doing ANY alphas right? (Or rather, at least Alpha 1)
[12:47] <smartboyhw> An alpha-1 opt-in e-mail will be sent by skaet soon...
[13:20] <zequence> smartboyhw: no Alphas
[13:28] <smartboyhw> zequence: :)
[14:58] <smartboyhw_> zequence: Can you confirm that the ubuntustudio bits in the latest email of ubuntu-devel correct?
[15:00] <smartboyhw_> Em, the bits are mostly (or fully) my wording…
[15:16] <zequence> smartboyhw_: what email is that?
[15:23] <zequence> smartboyhw_: which email are you referring to?
[15:24] <smartboyhw_> zequence: non-Unity flavours and MIR
[15:26] <zequence> smartboyhw_: what about it
[15:29] <smartboyhw_> zequence: There are the Studio bits (including multiple DEs), and I want to ask you if I said anything wrong…
[15:29] <zequence> smartboyhw_: non Ubuntu developers are not able to post to that list. a moderator has to let the post through
[15:30] <zequence> if you posted, it was not let through yet
[15:30] <smartboyhw_> zequence: Nah, the original one
[15:30] <smartboyhw_> Posted by Jonathan Riddell
[15:31] <zequence> yes, it's correct
[15:31] <smartboyhw_> zequence: great;)
[15:31] <zequence> also, we have the least interest in that particular discussion, or at least we who are here
[15:31] <zequence> as none of us are involved in DE development
[15:32] <zequence> we just use DEs that already exist
[15:32] <smartboyhw_> yep:P
[19:59] <zequence> latest updates to ardour3 in debian git repo build on saucy. the package seems to only be short of a desktop file
[19:59] <zequence> builds*
[21:15] <OvenWerks> zequence: great to hear. Does that mean we can use them?
[22:12] <OvenWerks> zequence: Installing Mint. It is the eaiest way to test menus on cinnamon and Mate.
[22:15] <OvenWerks> Mint seems to be a Ubuntu derivitave using the same repos and basic Ubuntu stuff... including the installer.
[22:19] <holstein> they have quite a few special things though
[22:19] <holstein> the upgrader is quite nice
[22:19] <holstein> rates upgrades, and lets you, as an admin, say what a user can upgrade
[22:19] <OvenWerks> My first thing will to be able to install... 
[22:19] <OvenWerks> I may have a proken image :P
[22:20] <holstein> say, kernel is level5, but browser is level2.. you could give you mom for example level 2 upgrade access
[22:20] <holstein> its a nice idea i cant believe more distros dont use
[22:20] <holstein> especially since the upgrader in *every* os is pretty much crap
[22:20] <OvenWerks> Ya.
[22:22] <OvenWerks> SQUASHFS error:  :(  Reboot and test the image.
[22:22] <OvenWerks> Back later
[22:58] <OvenWerks> Ya, bad image. Re download.
[22:59] <holstein> well, at least you know now
[22:59] <OvenWerks> That is what I get for using chromium to downlaod
[23:00] <OvenWerks> I am told we will have to take steps to get something else as that will be the ubuntu default.
[23:03] <holstein> eh.. im ok with it
[23:03] <holstein> i use chrome all the time anyway
[23:03] <holstein> its a lot like chromium, except that it works..
[23:05] <OvenWerks> I guess we can always blacklist and add FF if we want.
[23:06] <holstein> firefox is getting awesome again.. i dont get it
[23:06] <holstein> back when folks were saying 'we should switch to chromium', when ff was dog slow.. that would have been a nice time to switch
[23:07] <OvenWerks> I expedt it has something to do with branding and the licencing of that.
[23:08] <OvenWerks> FF basically has something about how it is started and what the starting screen is.
[23:09] <OvenWerks> changing that to a Ubuntu screen is not allowed.
[23:09] <holstein> wow
[23:09] <holstein> seems like an ok deal
[23:09] <holstein> i mean, its not like many folks are going to say "whats this mozilla thing?"
[23:09] <OvenWerks> The user can change it after, but FF wants it a certain way for first use.
[23:10] <OvenWerks> I think Ubuntu wants something they can brand and have their home page come up from day one.
[23:10] <holstein> interesting
[23:11] <OvenWerks> Concidering where vanilla is going, look and feel are very important.
[23:12] <OvenWerks> I think a uniffied look rather than a mix of stuff is what they are looking for.
[23:13] <OvenWerks> They want to compete with win/ipod/Android
[23:14] <OvenWerks> It has to be polished looking and feeling. It has to feel finshed