[00:41] <advancedgarde> I just had a look at the stats for this channel, they're really cool!
[00:41] <advancedgarde> I've never seen anything like that on a IRC before.
[00:44] <Azelphur> haha, afaik they are generated by a tool called pisg, it's open source and you can run it on any channel.
[07:22] <popey> Good morning
[07:30] <SuperMatt> morning
[07:50] <dwatkins> yeah, I run pisg on another channel, all you need is constant logs
[07:55] <diplo> Morning all
[08:13] <bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
[08:14] <popey> Yes!
[08:14] <bigcalm> Well, I'm glad to be so right for a change
[08:16] <mungbean> anyone know how to change keybindings in non-unity distros?
[08:17] <popey> http://tumbleweed.popey.com/
[08:19] <bigcalm> It amuses me that the image is flipped
[08:20] <mungbean> need to try to remap the super+L command
[08:21] <bigcalm> To lock the system?
[08:21] <bigcalm> Aka windows
[08:21] <mungbean> yesh
[08:22] <mungbean> gnome-screensaver is buggy so i had to replace it with sxcreensaver
[08:22] <mungbean> but now super+L no longer works
[08:23] <bigcalm> I think I did it when I used to use xubuntu (xfce)
[08:23] <bigcalm> Now idea how though :)
[08:23] <neuro> send it back and get a refund
[08:23]  * popey ponders breakfast
[08:23]  * neuro has already pondered
[08:24] <popey> poached eggs on a toasted bagel I think
[08:24]  * popey wanders off
[08:24] <neuro> 2x rolls with square+links sausage
[08:24] <neuro> + le tea
[08:24]  * bigcalm looks at his waist line and hears his tummy grumble
[08:25] <neuro> heh
[08:27] <SuperMatt> Rice Krispies is what I had
[08:28] <dwatkins> I had a cup of tea.
[08:31] <JamesTait> Good morning all, happy Autistic Pride Day! :-D
[08:32] <mungbean> anyone running gnome3?
[08:33] <neuro> happy autistic what now?
[08:33] <mungbean> ubuntu one "a file is no longer published" when trying to publish a screnshot :S
[08:33]  * popey points mungbean at JamesTait 
[08:34] <popey> (for u1, not g3)
[08:34] <JamesTait> Where do you see that message, mungbean?
[08:34] <mungbean> in the indicator
[08:35]  * neuro has googled (or more accurately has duckducked) and is wondering why 18th June ...
[08:35] <mungbean> usually says "file puslibhsed at url"
[08:35] <popey> I didnt think this whole "poached egg on a dough product with a hole in the middle" thing through
[08:35] <mungbean> i can try killing some daemons
[08:35] <neuro> puslibhsed ... has someone gotten their translations for English (UK) in a twist? :>
[08:35] <brobostigon> good morning everyone,
[08:35] <mungbean> re my keyboard issue,wonder if other peope are missing the optino to add custom shortcuts: http://i.imgur.com/nucW7Km.png
[08:35] <neuro> WHAT'S GOOD ABOUT IT
[08:36] <popey> poached eggs are good about it
[08:36] <neuro> my cup of tea is depleted, no more good can come from this day
[08:37] <popey> i have double-size mugs here for daytime cofee
[08:37] <popey> thinking they should make triple size mugs
[08:37] <neuro> they're called "jugs"
[08:37] <brobostigon> or buckets.
[08:38] <neuro> or barrels
[08:39] <JamesTait> popey, I think I'm with you on that.
[08:40] <JamesTait> mungbean, I don't really know about the indicator, but I imagine it just uses our REST API.  You're best off asking in #ubuntuone when the desktop guys arrive in a couple of hours.
[08:40] <mungbean> ok, not a common error then i guess, i'll try later ta
[08:41] <mungbean> is the free limit 4 or 5 gb?
[08:41] <JamesTait> 5GB
[08:41] <mungbean> i was using exactly 4.0gb so was suspicious
[08:42] <mungbean> publishing does work via teh website
[08:42] <neuro> i didn't even notice that google had gone a bit generous and effectively bumped up storage limits for gmail by unifying gmail+drive storage
[08:43] <neuro> which was nice, as my gafyd mailbox was pushing up against its 10 gig limit; it's now 15 \o/
[08:46] <JamesTait> mungbean, what about via the cli?
[08:46]  * JamesTait is looking at the indicator-sync source now.
[08:46] <JamesTait> "It's a UNIX system - I know this!"
[08:47] <mungbean> i should state that i'm using elementary with plugin for ubuntuone
[08:47] <mungbean> cli does the same problem
[08:48] <mungbean> u1sdtool --publish-file Ubuntu\ One/Screenshot\ from\ 2012-12-17\ 13\:54\:57.png
[08:48] <mungbean> indicator pops up
[08:48] <mungbean> command hasn't returned yet
[08:55] <Myrtti> porridge ♥
[08:56] <JamesTait> mungbean, as a test, do you have a file without spaces in the filename that you can try?
[08:57]  * popey stabs that filename format for screenshots
[08:57] <popey> it's _mental_
[08:57] <popey> spaces _and_ colons
[08:58] <SuperMatt> I've always thought it was a bit odd
[08:58] <neuro> it's like someone thought you'd be using a more friendly interface to access the files!
[08:58] <SuperMatt> fix bug, push upstream?
[08:58] <JamesTait> Mind you, unpublishing a file via the cli gives me "A share link is no longer available" from the indicator, which is different from what mungbean reported. I might not be the best tester, given that I almost certainly have the nightly PPA.
[08:59] <JamesTait> Command still hasn't returned, either.
[09:02] <neuro> and people ask me why i don't use u1 ... ;)
[09:02] <neuro> well, they don't, actually
[09:03] <neuro> bah, i keep forgetting Fleetwood Mac's "Rumours" is only 45 mins long
[09:03] <neuro> need a choon suggestion
[09:04] <mungbean> offline gmail = win
[09:04] <SuperMatt> Iron Maiden: Brave New World
[09:04] <neuro> too late, found some freezepop
[09:05] <SuperMatt> freezepop?
[09:05] <neuro> freezepop
[09:05] <SuperMatt> is that a band? genre?
[09:05] <neuro> http://lmgtfy.com/?q=freezepop
[09:06] <SuperMatt> http://www.socwall.com/desktop-wallpaper/342/freezepop-by-valerie/ so not this then?
[09:07] <neuro> actually yes
[09:07] <neuro> that's from their 2004 album
[09:07] <neuro> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fancy_Ultra%E2%80%A2Fresh
[09:07] <SuperMatt> oh
[09:07] <mungbean> JamesTait: just saw the message
[09:08] <mungbean> hold on
[09:09] <JamesTait> I've got as far as "it calls the change_public_access method on the public_files DBus interface" and now I'm not sure.
[09:09] <mungbean> so it's not just me breaking things?
[09:09] <mungbean> i'm happy to wait
[09:09] <mungbean> noticed it the other day
[09:09] <mungbean> haven't rebooted since though
[09:10] <neuro> you're more patient than i'd be ;)
[09:10] <mungbean> its a free account so meh
[09:10] <mungbean> or are we all supposed to act autistic on APD?
[09:11] <neuro> oooooooh *handbag* :)
[09:11] <neuro> http://handbag.popey.com/
[09:11]  * mungbean ducks
[09:11] <neuro> yay, i finally got to use that
[09:11] <SuperMatt> does popey have a subdomain for everything?
[09:11] <neuro> if he doesn't, he should have
[09:12] <mungbean> maybe we should get lubotu3 to do ascii art of tumbleweed
[09:12] <neuro> "Oops! Google Chrome could not find felgerkarb.popey.com" ... seems not
[09:12] <JamesTait> mungbean, well, I don't really know. :)  I can publish a file from the cli here, even with spaces in the filename.
[09:13] <JamesTait> But "Works For Me" isn't a solution.
[09:13] <JamesTait> mungbean, your patience and assistance in diagnosing the problem is appreciated. :)
[09:14] <neuro> your reward is FEELING AWESOME
[09:14]  * mungbean sings greensleeves
[09:14] <mungbean> http://askubuntu.com/questions/309448/publish-a-file-fails-cannot-access-web-link-a-file-is-no-longer-published
[09:15] <neuro> well at least you know it's not just you
[09:15] <mungbean> interestingly its new
[09:16] <mungbean> probably since my last update
[09:16] <popey> hehe, i haven't shared anything for a while.. just picked a random pic and shared it http://ubuntuone.com/2WZJ0aZMVc3Gh8il3ZEB3H
[09:16] <popey> *rando
[09:16] <neuro> it's loading sideways
[09:16] <neuro> what black magic is this?
[09:17] <popey> its rotated
[09:17] <popey> so it's loading normally, but rendered sideways due to exif data I suspect
[09:17] <JamesTait> Oh my! popey, that's disgusting!
[09:17] <mungbean> https://twitter.com/ghalfacree/status/344763611991908353
[09:17] <popey> it is? oh
[09:17] <JamesTait> :-P
[09:18]  * JamesTait chuckles as the rest of the channel suddenly clicks the link.
[09:18] <popey> it belongs to sam
[09:18] <popey> i think it's for holding a pair of glasses
[09:18] <neuro> JamesTait: and you know this, how?
[09:19]  * neuro sniffs for scents of NSA or GCHQ
[09:19] <JamesTait> neuro, I have CCTV installed in all your houses?
[09:19] <neuro> aaaaaaaaaah
[09:19]  * neuro runs for the underwear drawer
[09:19] <neuro> HAHAHA I'm kidding
[09:19] <neuro> because when would I run anywhere, amirite?
[09:19] <JamesTait> I know. :-P
[09:20] <neuro> aaaaaaah!
[09:21] <neuro> earlier joking aside, i'd actually use ubuntu one more, but i find the mac client too kludgy, and the headless mode is mad
[09:22] <JamesTait> neuro, if you could expand upon the deficiencies of the Mac client in the way of bug reports, our client team would like to hear about it.
[09:23] <neuro> it's nothing that demands a bug per se
[09:23] <JamesTait> Or even via the feedback form.
[09:23] <neuro> it's just not ... Mac enough
[09:23] <neuro> which i know is a tad unfair
[09:24] <JamesTait> https://one.ubuntu.com/help/contact/
[09:24] <neuro> the mac clients for dropbox and gdrive are much more integrated, and thus i prefer those
[09:24] <neuro> and there i shall leave it :)
[09:24] <JamesTait> I'm not a mac user at all, you see, so I'm not much use in that department.
[09:25] <neuro> sure, don't worry about it
[09:25] <neuro> i'm a bit of an oddity in here, i don't run ubuntu desktop at all
[09:26] <neuro> i'm mainly mac here with a couple of sadly necessary windows machines
[09:32] <brobostigon> any ideas, of a phone, that preferably has a hw keyboard, android, and is around £100/£150 mark. ?
[09:32] <mungbean> hw keyboard can't be many to choose from
[09:33] <brobostigon> exactly. thats why i am asking advice.
[09:33] <brobostigon> but it isnt as crucial, there are some good sw keyboards around now.
[09:34] <popey> amusingly if I go to orange website and look at the filters "hardware keyboard" isn't even an option
[09:34] <popey> in fact the only ones i can see are blackberry or cheap dumbphones like the Nokia Asha 300, and they only have numeric keyboards
[09:34] <brobostigon> interesting,
[09:35] <popey> I'd love a modern day Nokia N950
[09:35] <popey> still know a fair few people who have them
[09:35] <neuro> brobostigon: when you say "android" ...
[09:35] <brobostigon> neuro: android 4.2 and above or flashable.
[09:36] <popey> http://www.androidauthority.com/best-keyboard-qwerty-android-phones-2012-55315/
[09:36] <neuro> good luck with that
[09:36] <brobostigon> 4.1*
[09:36] <brobostigon> thank you popey
[09:37] <popey> that was the result of "android phone hardware keyboard" into google
[09:37] <neuro> actually, i take it back
[09:37] <neuro> http://www.expansys.com/samsung-galaxy-chat-b5330-uk-black-241632/
[09:37] <neuro> http://theunlockr.com/2012/12/29/how-to-root-the-samsung-galaxy-chat-b5330/
[09:37] <popey> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Samsung-Galaxy-Andoid-Simfree-Mobile/dp/B009URTKWI/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1371548259&sr=8-1&keywords=B5330
[09:37] <popey> better pic
[09:38] <popey> i used to be adamant that hardware keyboards were the way forward
[09:38] <popey> then bought an htc hero and haven't had a hardware kb device since
[09:38] <neuro> brobostigon: and apparently samsung is pushing kosher 4.1.2 updates for the chat
[09:38] <neuro> popey: i thought the same til i used an iphone
[09:38] <popey> loads of phones linked from that amazon page
[09:38] <brobostigon> neuro: interesting.
[09:39] <neuro> brobostigon: yeah, it looks like a not bad phone if you desperately want the hw keyb and don't care too much about performance
[09:39] <mungbean> i used to type really fast on my psion revo
[09:39] <neuro> it's only got an 850Mhz apu
[09:39] <popey> loving this device btw http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00BQ5KHJW
[09:39] <neuro> but pricewise it's in line with what you're after
[09:40] <popey> yeah, i used to type one handed on my Nokia N82, in my pocket ☻
[09:40] <brobostigon> neuro: as i said, it would be nice, but not crucial, as there are some good sw kayboards around now.
[09:40] <neuro> popey: i have two of these little guys: http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B003F5WEMO
[09:41] <popey> twee
[09:41] <neuro> fits nicely into one of my car phone holder thingies
[09:42] <popey> i found I could put the anker in one back pocket, phone in the other back pocket with usb cable between to charge ☻
[09:42] <popey> ← NERD
[09:42] <neuro> for drives down to engerland, i swap it out when i get to norton canes on the m6 toll
[09:42] <neuro> lol
[09:42] <neuro> then wonder why your cheeks are getting toasty
[09:45] <neuro> incidentally, bought these in the same amazon order
[09:45] <neuro> http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B005IHLHCA
[09:45] <neuro> probably the best speakers of that size i've ever bought
[09:46] <bigcalm> Does anybody else here get a crackle when skype plays system sounds?
[09:46] <popey> cheapo
[09:46] <neuro> and i paid 32 quid for them; at 20 quid they're a bloomin' steal
[09:46] <popey> i turn of system sounds in skype
[09:47] <bigcalm> popey: so you don't like to hear it ringing?
[09:47] <neuro> skype's sounds are aaaaaaanoooooooyyyiiiiinngg
[09:47] <popey> i dont like hearing anything from skype
[09:47] <popey> blip-bloop
[09:47] <popey> neuro: what batteries does that take?
[09:47] <neuro> bloop-blip-bluup
[09:47] <neuro> popey: the speakers?
[09:47] <popey> oh, charges over usb?
[09:47] <popey> neato
[09:47] <neuro> yeah
[09:47] <neuro> it has an on-off switch
[09:48] <neuro> which is cutely reversed
[09:48] <neuro> it pops *out* for on, and pushes in for off
[09:48] <popey> is it a usb audio device too?
[09:48] <popey> or just power over usb?
[09:48] <neuro> no
[09:48] <neuro> power over usb, audio over 3.5mm
[09:48] <popey> ta
[09:48] <neuro> only downside is the cable lengths are a touch short
[09:48] <neuro> i can't clip the speakers to my mbp screen
[09:49] <neuro> but then i'm going outside the scope of the product, i guess
[09:49] <neuro> so i just put them on top of the keyb when watching stuff
[09:49] <neuro> comes with a cute little bag to put them in when not using them
[09:50] <neuro> and the cables have pathed ducts in the speaker casing to tuck them away when not being used
[09:53] <bigcalm> Why is Amazon telling me that they have 20% off nappies?
[09:53] <mungbean> handy to know
[09:53] <neuro> because they're pimping their Amazon Family thing
[09:53] <neuro> i'm getting it too
[09:53] <mungbean> you can subscribe to nappy deliveries
[09:54] <bigcalm> Ewww
[09:54] <neuro> it's basically Prime with 20% off nappies
[09:57]  * popey apt-get upgrades his phone
[09:57] <popey> \o/ checkers
[09:58] <neuro> lol
[09:58] <neuro> as much as i'm currently unimpressed with ubuntu phone, and as much as i think it's pointless ssh'ing into a phone ... that's still pretty cool :)
[09:59]  * DJones hopes that hardware & software for Ubuntu phones will be publicly available by the time he comes to replace his phone next year
[09:59] <mungbean> neuro: phones are computing devices
[09:59] <neuro> i know, i know
[09:59] <popey> DJones: target is april next year
[09:59] <mungbean> calling things phones is a bit silly nowadays
[09:59] <mungbean> might as well call it a camera
[09:59] <popey> 13.10 should see software release you could put on phone and "use"
[10:00] <popey> what other devices have a GSM stack in them?
[10:00] <neuro> as far as i'm concerned, if it has a cellular modem, a speaker+mic and software to make calls on it, and is in a "phone"-like form factor, it's a phone
[10:00] <DJones> popey: That'll be good, not due to upgrade until autumn anyway, should be plenty of time for bugs/issues in 'real world use' to be sorted outr
[10:00] <popey> other devices have cameras in them (tablet, camera) but only "phones" have a gsm stack
[10:00] <popey> +1
[10:00] <popey> mungbean is taking international autism day too seriously ㋛
[10:00] <neuro> some cameras have gsm stacks
[10:01] <popey> true ☻
[10:01] <popey> "but my TV has a PVR so it's not a Tv anymore" etc
[10:01] <neuro> and the samsung galaxy camera is basically an inverted galaxy S2
[10:01] <neuro> instead of being a phone with a touchscreen that happens to have a camera
[10:02] <neuro> it's a camera with a touchscreen that happens to have a phone
[10:02] <popey> who was the US leader who put a youtube video out to ask what we call them instead of phones?
[10:02] <neuro> or at least an android-compatible APU with cellular radios
[10:02] <popey> it was someone recently
[10:02] <neuro> oh it was thingy
[10:02] <DJones> popey: If you find that Canonical look for people to beta test the hardware/software and have demo phones to give out, let me now, I'll put my name on the list of volunteers :)
[10:02] <neuro> republican bloke
[10:02] <popey> heh DJones after me ㋛
[10:03] <neuro> that's the bunny ... Newt Gingrich
[10:03] <DJones> Definatly after you
[10:04] <neuro> http://youtu.be/jmKVRVX4q-k
[10:04] <neuro> "We're Really Puzzled"
[10:04] <neuro> no Newt, you are :)
[10:04] <neuro> well, you and mungbean
[10:04] <popey> http://what-if.xkcd.com/50/ is delightful
[10:04] <dogmatic69> hi all. having problems with two GTX550 Ti's. I got 13.04 running with one, but if I connect the other it completely died (had to reinstall ubuntu :/)
[10:04] <neuro> ohhhh it's tuesday
[10:04]  * neuro hugs popey
[10:04]  * popey hugs AlanBell 
[10:05] <bigcalm> It's great how authorising Facebook as an Online Account doesn't work :)
[10:05] <davmor2> Morning all
[10:06] <neuro> why aye
[10:08] <neuro> popey: yes, delightful
[10:08] <neuro> the alt/title tags are, as always, genius
[10:09] <neuro> "The mercury one was going to be the least deadly, wasn't it"
[10:10] <neuro> this one is currently my favourite: http://what-if.xkcd.com/35/
[10:10] <neuro> "One more notch."
[10:11] <popey> i need to show these to Sophie
[10:12] <neuro> oohhh, i have never read the alt tags on that one
[10:12] <popey> i might print one out and put it in her school bag and see if she finds it
[10:12] <neuro> "this one has expressed concern that rogue states may gain access to hair dryer dial labelling technology"
[10:25] <DJones> http://what-if.xkcd.com/40/ Is a bit dodgy given what happened in Boston
[10:26] <neuro> that's a bit like saying the episode of The X-Files-spinoff The Lone Gunman where they had to avert a plane crashing into the World Trade Center was a bit dodgy given what happened on 9/11
[10:49] <bigcalm> TerminalIDE seems to be a bit of an overkill for me using it just as an SSH client. Any recommendations for a standalone SSH client on android?
[10:51] <neuro> https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.connectbot
[10:53] <davmor2> bigcalm: you can get the irssi client for your phone/tablet  it does ssh + irssi connection :)
[10:53] <davmor2> bigcalm: that's a connectbot product too
[10:54] <bigcalm> davmor2: x y
[10:54] <bigcalm> davmor2: I want an ssh client, not an irc client
[10:54] <bigcalm> neuro: ta
[10:55] <davmor2> bigcalm: it is the connectbot ssh client + mods for irssi to make that useable
[10:56] <bigcalm> davmor2: have you considered that I might want to use SSH for something other than IRC?
[10:56] <davmor2> bigcalm: it is the ssh client plus things like swipe left and right to change channel etc, I found I didn't need both when the one did everything I needed
[10:56] <davmor2> bigcalm: it is the same ssh client + mods
[10:56] <popey> juice is also a good irc client
[10:56] <popey> which does mosh
[10:56]  * popey now uses mosh instead of ssh directly
[10:57]  * bigcalm stamps his foot - I don't want to do IRC over my phone
[10:58] <davmor2> bigcalm: if it's there you'll use it though :P
[10:58]  * brobostigon also uses mosh, perticulerly useful on my sometimes unstable phone connection.
[10:59] <mgdm> I think popey meant 'ssh' when he said 'irc', perhaps?
[11:05] <popey> oops, yes
[11:05] <popey> i dont mean irc at all ☻  just ssh
[12:03] <mungbean> weatherman promised 25 degrees today
[12:03] <mungbean> liar
[12:04] <BigRedS> I think, technically, he only *forecast* that
[12:05] <mungbean> whos side are you on?
[12:07] <mungbean> http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/news/article-2343790/Call-centres-BBC-Three-programme-hit-225-000-fine-nuisance-PPI-calls.html?ito=feeds-newsxml
[12:07] <BigRedS> well, I'm in an air conditioned room all day, this is an argument I'm not having :)
[12:19] <bigcalm> My goodness, that was an odd game
[12:27] <mungbean> incredipede bigcalm ?
[12:29] <popey> heh
[12:30] <mungbean> on level2 , am i supposed to be able to use the mouse to stretch legs etc?
[12:33] <mungbean> seem to be stuck using a and D keys only
[12:35] <mungbean> muller do a fruit corner type thing that is in fact a big after eight mint.
[12:38] <popey> i managed to get through about 6 levels
[12:38] <mungbean> could you make new legs etc?
[12:38] <popey> no
[12:38] <mungbean> bug?
[12:38] <popey> didnt try
[12:38] <popey> didnt know you could
[12:38] <mungbean> thats the point
[12:38] <popey> i just got through the levels with what I had and a/d
[12:38] <mungbean> that would be lame
[12:39] <popey> another game I really like is pax-britannica
[12:39] <popey> !info pax-britannica
[12:39] <mungbean> run incredipede and click the cogs and click help
[12:45] <christel> popey: we have a press screening for our latest movie netx week, the ubuntu podcast should go see it and interview ian livingstone and our main producer
[12:46] <christel> it is clearly ubuntu related seeing how i am an ubuntu user
[12:46]  * christel nods
[12:46] <christel> (i saw your "we need people to interview" thing) :)
[12:47] <christel> (and it would be a bit cool of you to have ian livingstone on air because i am sure you're all old enough to have enjoyed his fighting fantasy books in your youth... and he is a bit of a geek and totally cute)
[12:47] <popey> hah
[12:47] <popey> never heard of him ☻
[12:47] <christel> he was the founder of games workshop...
[12:48] <mungbean> ££
[12:48] <popey> heard of that ☻
[12:48] <mungbean> popey: surely you read fighting fantasy?
[12:48] <christel> and is the presiident of uh eidos interactive
[12:48] <popey> nope
[12:48] <mungbean> he is lara croft's dad
[12:49] <christel> he holds an OBE and a CBE for "services to the computer gaming industry" ;)
[12:49] <christel> he's a lovely man :)
[12:49] <christel> i enjoy working with him, it is tres fun :)
[12:49] <aquarius> ha! Ian Livingstone. He was at the first LugRadio Live :)
[12:50] <aquarius> no he wasn't.
[12:50] <aquarius> Ian Bell was. From Elite :)
[12:50] <popey> http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1937035674/leadwerks-build-linux-games-on-linux
[12:50] <popey> pondering backing that
[12:50] <aquarius> I saw that
[12:50] <aquarius> but I basically have no interest in making 3d games. Or the skill to do so...
[12:51] <popey> ditto ☻
[12:51] <popey> i like t-shirts though
[12:55] <popey> http://www.cocos2d-x.org/ also looks interesting
[13:05] <mungbean> browsers seem to create so much i/o . i wonder what they are doing
[13:18] <davmor2> mungbean: do you have an add blocker in place?
[13:19] <mungbean> yes
[13:20] <davmor2> mungbean: I'm wondering if that is partially responsible i/o here and memory and cpu is really low, my email client is the thing using the most
[13:21] <mungbean> sounds strange
[13:22] <davmor2> mungbean: I have 4 chromium windows open with a minimum of 5 active tabs in each,  thunderbird is using 3 times the memory and twice the cpu
[13:23] <mungbean> maybe webistes are just a lot richer than before
[13:23] <mungbean> facebook regularly kills my pc
[13:24] <davmor2> mungbean: try disabling the add block and see if it lowers the high utilization for you
[13:24] <mungbean> think i'll need to close browser first to unload stuffs
[13:24] <mungbean> i have 40 tabs open atm
[13:25] <davmor2> mungbean: that might be why then :)
[13:25] <popey> i seriously doubt disabling adblock will improve things
[13:25] <mungbean> (although on my laptop at homei can have 2 tabs and still disk wakes up)
[13:25] <popey> more likely to make things worse
[13:25] <mungbean> i just farted audibly in the office. embarassing
[13:25] <popey> i have 80 tabs open
[13:25] <mungbean> mem usage?
[13:26] <mungbean> iotop doesn't show much going on
[13:26] <popey> KiB Mem:   8057840 total,  6937944 used,  1119896 free,    77780 buffers
[13:26] <popey> KiB Swap:  8267772 total,  2795716 used,  5472056 free,   792316 cached
[13:27] <mungbean> top -b | grep firefox ?
[13:28] <popey> i dont use firefox, chromium ☻
[13:28] <mungbean> i think its cos the PC is now on the desk, i can hear disk inkling
[13:28] <mungbean> i've tried them all
[13:28] <mungbean> jbd2/sda6-8
[13:29] <popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/5777091/
[13:30] <mungbean> it all adds up
[13:30] <mungbean> i only have 4gb ram
[13:34] <mungbean> should i always choose a windows 64-bit version when loading windows 7 onto a well specced laptop?
[13:49] <mungbean> why doesn't sed -i 's;GtkScrollbar::slider-width                      = 6;GtkScrollbar::slider-width                      = 10;' gtkrc
[13:49] <mungbean> work?
[13:50] <popey> never used s; before, only s/
[13:51] <mungbean> i tried that too
[13:51] <mungbean> sed -i 's/GtkScrollbar::slider-width                      = 6/GtkScrollbar::slider-width                      = 10/g' ./gtkrc
[13:51] <mungbean> must be the spaces
[13:52] <mungbean> you can shorten but i've forgotten anything i ever knew
[13:55] <aquarius> popey, it's not s; specifically. You can use any character you like after the s and it becomes the delimiter. So sXpopeyXsilX works. It's dead useful if you're replacing something with / in, such as a path. sX/home/aquarius/X/home/popey/Xg
[13:55] <popey> i never knew that
[13:55] <popey> thanks
[13:56] <aquarius> I guessed not, hence telling you. It's one of those little things which is incredibly useful about once every six months ;)
[13:57] <popey> heh, yeah
[13:59] <mgdm> that works in various scripting languages too - dead handy
[13:59] <mgdm> (once every six months, as you say)
[13:59] <mungbean>  sed -i 's/slider-width.*6/GtkScrollbar  ::slider-width                      = 10/g' ./gtkrc
[13:59] <mungbean> works
[14:00] <mungbean> i think there's more elegant way though
[15:07] <mungbean> who's near hastings? http://www.hastingsobserver.co.uk/news/local-news/legendary-bomber-set-to-make-a-noise-1-5185870
[15:08] <mgdm> I'm guessing that's XH558?
[15:08] <mungbean> yes
[15:08] <mgdm> \o/
[15:09] <mungbean> https://twitter.com/XH558
[15:10] <mgdm> Bruce Dickinson is setting up an aircraft maintenance company?!
[15:10] <mgdm> http://loudwire.com/iron-maiden-bruce-dickinson-8-million-investments-aircraft-maintenance-company/?trackback=twitter_top
[15:10] <mungbean> This Saturday 22nd June at Manston in Kent -
[15:13] <mungbean> i like how they say "manston, then weston super mare"
[15:13] <BigRedS> Ooh, what's that in aid of?
[15:13] <mungbean> south east air show
[15:13] <mungbean> http://www.heritage-events.co.uk/South%20East%20Airshow%202013
[15:13]  * mgdm hopes to see it north of the border some time
[15:16] <mungbean> i'd say the BBMF are more popular
[15:16] <mungbean> seeing the lanc gives you shivers
[15:17] <mgdm> I've stood under the Lanc at its hangar, but never seen it fly
[15:17] <BigRedS> I was thinking about that at duxford
[15:17] <BigRedS> it's this tool built to bomb the women and children of Germany
[15:17] <mungbean> not really
[15:18] <mungbean> thats not the chief intention
[15:20] <BigRedS> Well, no, but it is what most people go on to think of when they picture WW2 bombing raids
[15:20] <BigRedS> to be fair to the bbmf, I don't think their lancaster did any combat at all
[15:20] <JamesTait> mungbean, did you have any joy with your file publishing problem?
[15:21] <mungbean> no i forgot to ask in 'buntu-one
[15:22] <mungbean> this one certainly saw action http://www.flickr.com/photos/oimon/8522213006/
[15:22] <mungbean> 2nd highest number of operations of the RAF Heavy Bombers during WWII
[15:22] <BigRedS> Is that the one at RAF Hendon?
[15:22] <mungbean> yes
[15:22] <mungbean> join #ubuntu-one
[15:23] <JamesTait> mungbean, #ubuntuone (no hyphen)
[15:23] <mungbean> seemed to put me in the same place \/o
[15:23] <BigRedS> and /join, not join :)
[15:23] <JamesTait> Ah, you're already there. :)
[15:26] <mungbean> my fathers inheritance to be split among my siblings is stored in a coop bank account. scary :S
[15:31] <mungbean> ah, finally its made it into my current account
[15:31] <mungbean> don't think coop was really at risk but you never know
[15:32] <popey> \o/ http://www.ubuntu.com/phone/carrier-advisory-group
[15:38] <Gary> I'd love to run ubuntuphone on my mako
[16:04] <diplo> mungbean: Just saw your message at 16:20, your old nick oimon ?
[16:08] <AlanBell> ooh that is a big announcement
[16:14] <AlanBell> a bit shy of a commitment to launch it, but some good names there
[16:14] <popey> slowly slowly
[16:16] <MartijnVdS> .uk?
[16:16] <MartijnVdS> http://lego.cuusoo.com/ideas/view/3431
[16:16] <AlanBell> everything everywhere is a UK carrier
[16:17] <MartijnVdS> AlanBell: I thought you meant this announcement: http://domainnamewire.com/2013/06/18/nominet-reconsiders-second-level-uk-domains-and-it-may-be-good-for-domainers/
[16:17] <AlanBell> ah, nope
[16:17] <AlanBell> the carrier advisory group
[16:19] <MartijnVdS> I see
[16:19] <MartijnVdS> AlanBell: though there ARE some good names to buy in .uk :)
[16:58] <NET||abuse> hummm, ssh is faling, i think it's trying to offer too many public keys negotiating the connection
[16:58] <NET||abuse> how do i stop ssh offering all my possible public keys during auth?
[17:08] <daftykins> i think i met my match on laptop disassembly tasks
[17:08] <daftykins> broken screen in a tiny Samsung 5 series AMD based laptop
[17:08] <daftykins> only way to take it out, pull off the foil-like sheet of metal on the front - which now looks like this: ~~~~~~~
[17:09] <daftykins> in hindsight, perhaps something like a hot air gun to soften the glue would've been best XD
[17:12] <popey> NET||abuse: yeah, i had that recently too
[17:12] <popey> NET||abuse: http://superuser.com/questions/187779/too-many-authentication-failures-for-username
[17:13] <daftykins> do you always use keys over passwords for systems you own?
[17:14] <mgdm> NET||abuse: could you tell it which key to use in a Host entry in ~/.ssh/config ?
[17:15] <daftykins> the above link covers exactly that
[17:19] <popey> daftykins: mostly, yes
[17:19] <popey> especially publicly accessible machines
[17:20] <daftykins> i feel like that'd be a pain because if i'd just setup a new system or wiped an old, if i were away from home and needed to get in i'd be knackered
[17:20] <popey> there's ways around that
[17:21] <popey> like having one machine which allows ssh with a strong password and from there you can hop to others, or having a key on your phone or something
[17:22] <daftykins> true
[17:22] <daftykins> i feel as though a non-standard port and a good user+pass is fairly decent
[17:23] <popey> yeah, works for me
[17:30] <dwatkins> also, denyhosts will ban an IP address if it has too many login failures
[17:31] <daftykins> i use err
[17:31] <daftykins> fail2ban for the same
[17:32] <dwatkins> I also use a non-standard port, which has the advantate I don't need to jump through hoops to get to my ssh server. Suffice to say that my work network thinks I'm making a connection to a different application.
[17:36] <daftykins> ^_^
[17:37] <daftykins> the auth.log is quite amusing when you use standard port 22 and leave a box internet facing
[17:37] <daftykins> just sort of, lower case first names get tried
[18:12] <davmor2> popey: humble android bundle did you get it yet?
[18:13] <davmor2> bigcalm: ^
[18:14] <popey> I didn't, but I do now. Thanks ☻
[18:14] <ali1234> another one already?
[18:14] <davmor2> popey: can you see if the USC links work please :)
[18:15] <davmor2> ali1234: yeap android one
[18:16] <DJones> popey: Did I see you mention that polly was no longer being updated
[18:16] <popey> organ trail, yes
[18:16] <popey> DJones: not i
[18:16] <ali1234> time to dig up some bitcoins then i guess
[18:16] <bigcalm> davmor2: save me from loading the screen with irssi in. What did I miss?
[18:16] <popey> 19:12:57 < davmor2> popey: humble android bundle did you get it yet?
[18:16] <popey> that
[18:16] <DJones> popey: ok
[18:17] <bigcalm> Ah
[18:17] <popey> well, specifically 19:13:46 < davmor2> bigcalm: ^
[18:17] <popey> that
[18:17] <davmor2> bigcalm: humble android bundle
[18:17] <bigcalm> Yes, I got emailed that line
[18:17] <davmor2> popey: comedy gold
[18:17] <bigcalm> davmor2: I haven't been emailed about it yet if there is a new one
[18:18] <brobostigon> has anyone around tried Blackberry OS 10 yet, i wonder whats its like, being QNX basis.
[18:18] <ali1234> hey do you think they email the people who pay more first so that beating the average is harder? that's what i would do lol
[18:18] <davmor2> bigcalm: and you see how useful irssi on your phone would be now :D
[18:18]  * davmor2 awaits the sound of bigcalm 's head exploding
[18:20] <bigcalm> Frozen synapse looks like Die Hard on the PlayStation from the 90s
[18:21] <bigcalm> None of the games appeal to be other than broken sword
[18:21] <ali1234> it's nothing like that
[18:21] <ali1234> it's like laser squad nemesis or robosport
[18:21] <ali1234> if it is the game i think it is
[18:21] <bigcalm> I did dsu 'looks'
[18:21] <bigcalm> dsu = say
[18:21] <popey> davmor2: stealth bastard deluxe is installing too..
[18:21] <bigcalm> Left hand needs to shift one to the left for a change
[18:21] <ali1234> i'm pretty sure die hard on playstation wasn't abstract wireframe graphics in primary colours...
[18:22] <popey> USC has asked for my password 3 times now
[18:23] <davmor2> popey: yeah it's polykit I think ends on the completed install but I could be wrong
[18:23] <bigcalm> I have no idea what it reminds me of then
[18:23] <popey> davmor2: fractal too
[18:23] <davmor2> popey: ta
[18:23] <popey> np
[18:24]  * popey claims humble bundle on expenses
[18:24]  * bigcalm ponders buying it just to have something he might play with in the future
[18:24] <bigcalm> ¬.¬
[18:24] <popey> thats what i do mostly
[18:24] <popey> mostly
[18:27] <ali1234> i still haven't finishes adding all the previous bundles on steam
[18:27] <popey> i tend to do them piecemeal
[18:27] <popey> doesn't take long but the UI in steam is horrid for doing it
[18:28] <ali1234> does it cost HiB extra if i add them btw?
[18:28] <popey> have to keep pressing enter, and then wait
[18:28] <popey> pass
[18:28] <ali1234> i don't know why i think you'd know that
[18:28] <popey> he
[18:29] <ali1234> right i'm off to not play any of these games
[18:29] <bigcalm> Bah, broken sword is broken
[18:30] <diddledan_> evening
[18:30] <popey> pip pip
[18:31] <diddledan_> games? am I missing a humble bundle?
[18:33] <bigcalm> The email will be sent out soon enough
[18:34] <popey> about 20 mins after you  buy it usually
[18:34] <diddledan_> ok, euromillions, make me a meeleonaire
[18:34] <popey> 3 mins for me
[18:35] <diddledan_> lol @ stealth bastard
[18:35] <diddledan_> not only that, but it's deluxe
[18:35] <diddledan_> a deluxe bastard of stealth
[18:36] <daftykins> i thought it was already freeware/shareware that one
[18:36] <ali1234> nah it's on steam
[18:37] <ali1234> i hope they get mcpixel in one of the bundles soon
[18:37] <bigcalm> 9 mins after buying the games the email comes in. Nice work
[18:37] <davmor2> bigcalm: :D
[18:38]  * bigcalm goes back to work
[18:38] <davmor2> bigcalm: work you should be finished now man :D
[18:38] <bigcalm> davmor2: nothing better to do
[18:38] <davmor2> bigcalm: you just bought games
[18:39] <diddledan_> they've got a pay with bitcoin thingy on there now
[18:39] <bigcalm> davmor2: doesn't mean I want to play them
[18:39] <davmor2> sbd is good fun
[18:39] <bigcalm> davmor2: and broken sword isn't installing on steam
[18:39] <ali1234> maybe the steam version isn't on linux?
[18:39] <ali1234> about half of them aren't
[18:40] <bigcalm> In time I guess it will be
[18:40] <bigcalm> Out of the list of steam keys I copy/pasted, only 2 games didn't install
[18:40] <ali1234> i have 50 games on steam that i got from HiB and 18 of them have linux ports
[18:41] <popey> fractal is fun
[18:47] <neuro> sadly mostly not linux-compatible, but GOG are running a summer sale until 9th July: http://www.gog.com/NoDRMSummer
[18:47] <ali1234> but do they accept bitcoins?
[18:47] <neuro> well, no
[18:48] <neuro> but some of the games can be coerced into running on linux: http://www.gog.com/mix/linux_native_source_ports
[18:48] <neuro> i.e. scumm-based games
[18:49] <ali1234> wow syndicate
[18:49] <ali1234> that game really hasn't aged well
[18:50] <diddledan_> they've (gog) pretty much got their entire catalogue on offer
[18:52] <ali1234> interesting populous is older and has aged very well
[18:53] <neuro> I HAS HB EMAIL
[19:04] <diddledan_> that's a phrase I thought I'd never see on a modern app: "reticulating splines"
[19:04] <diddledan_> on the hib android app
[19:04] <neuro> what, you mean like on the latest version of Sim City?
[19:04] <diddledan_> really? sim city still does that?
[19:04] <neuro> yup
[19:05] <daftykins> The SIMS always did too
[19:05] <neuro> and stuff about llamas too
[19:05] <daftykins> it's one of their things.
[19:05] <MartijnVdS> diddledan_: it became a bit of an in-joke after SC2K
[19:06] <ali1234> when i saw that on the HiB downloader i had to go and look where it was from because i knew i had seen it before
[19:07] <MartijnVdS> http://sims.wikia.com/wiki/Reticulating_splines
[19:08] <daftykins> aww
[19:08] <daftykins> those linguistic abusers
[19:15] <neuro> jumpin' jiminies
[19:15] <neuro> http://speedtest.net/result/2782014998.png
[19:15] <neuro> my best speedtest off speedtest.net, ever
[19:16] <neuro> (the "~100 mi" bit is utterly fallacious btw)
[19:16] <MartijnVdS> neuro: http://www.speedtest.net/result/2782025082.png
[19:17] <neuro> bloody dutch
[19:17] <MartijnVdS> neuro: I'm getting an upgrade to 500/500 soon
[19:17] <neuro> bloody dutch
[19:17] <MartijnVdS> neuro: yw ;)
[19:17] <neuro> :)
[19:17] <diddledan_> 500/500? what tech is that running on?
[19:17] <neuro> uncapped?
[19:17] <MartijnVdS> neuro: yes no limits
[19:18] <neuro> no fup/shaping?
[19:18] <MartijnVdS> none
[19:18] <neuro> good grief
[19:18] <MartijnVdS> diddledan_: fibre
[19:19] <diddledan_> fttp?
[19:19] <MartijnVdS> FttH, yes
[19:19] <diddledan_> yeah, p/h they both mean the same
[19:19] <MartijnVdS> Gigabit media converter (just plain ethernet)
[19:19] <diddledan_> that's not fair
[19:19] <MartijnVdS> diddledan_: premises/home
[19:19]  * diddledan_ wants to be dutch now
[19:20] <diddledan_> fscking BT dragging their heals
[19:20] <diddledan_> heels**
[19:20] <neuro> they're not really
[19:20] <neuro> fibre is expensive to roll out
[19:20] <MartijnVdS> they're rolling out fibre across the country here, 30-50% coverage now I think
[19:20] <neuro> fttp (instead of fttc) is happening, but it costs
[19:20] <diddledan_> neuro, yes, but it should have happened a decade ago
[19:21] <neuro> and who would have paid for it?
[19:21] <MartijnVdS> neuro: investment company + incumbent telco (KPN) pay for it here
[19:21] <MartijnVdS> expected ROI of 20-30 years
[19:21] <neuro> i mean who would have paid for it in 2003 in the UK
[19:21] <MartijnVdS> neuro: banksters
[19:22] <neuro> and remember
[19:22] <neuro> nl = flat
[19:22] <neuro> uk = not
[19:22] <neuro> all uk bankers care about is latency to ny
[19:22] <neuro> which is why we have tons of low latency transatlantic fibre
[19:23] <MartijnVdS> neuro: Dutch roads are also very uniform
[19:23] <neuro> that too
[19:23] <MartijnVdS> which helps when you're opening them up
[19:23] <neuro> exactly
[19:23] <MartijnVdS> you can probably thank the germans for that
[19:23] <neuro> heh
[19:24] <diddledan_> "what did the germans ever do for us?"
[19:24] <diddledan_> s/germans/romans/
[19:24] <neuro> diddledan_: so my question would be, what can you get just now?
[19:24] <neuro> can you get 80mbps fttc? 120mbps virgin?
[19:24] <MartijnVdS> symmetric? :P
[19:24] <neuro> na
[19:24] <diddledan_> neuro, I'm paying a lot for 80Mbps with a 100GB cap
[19:24] <neuro> almost all uk broadband is adsl or vdsl
[19:24] <MartijnVdS> no DOCSIS/cable internet?
[19:25] <neuro> diddledan_: cap?
[19:25] <daftykins> neuro: no, tonnes of cable.
[19:25] <neuro> how much is a lot, if you don't mind me asking?
[19:25] <diddledan_> including the phone line around 60£
[19:25] <neuro> daftykins: well, metres is probably more accurate a metric ;)
[19:25] <neuro> diddledan_: you're getting screwed
[19:25] <daftykins> Virgin Media is all over the place with their cable network
[19:25] <diddledan_> neuro, I'm trying to get a MAC code now
[19:26] <neuro> sky and bt do uncapped vdsl2 for 45-50 quid a month with the line
[19:26] <shauno> I pay about €90 :/
[19:26] <neuro> which is what i have
[19:26] <neuro> (both of them)
[19:26] <neuro> sky is my primary egress, bt my failover and bulk traffic line
[19:26] <neuro> all tied together with pfsense
[19:26] <diddledan_> nice
[19:26] <daftykins> such overkill :(
[19:27] <neuro> my homehub and whatever crap sky gave me are switched off and disconnected :D
[19:27] <diddledan_> pfsense is awesome
[19:27] <neuro> daftykins: i work from home, so, no
[19:28] <neuro> worst case scenario is a power cut, where i can break out 3g if need be, and in dire straits my parents live about a mile away, so i can work from there, albeit with 3Mbps ADSL2+
[19:28] <neuro> trying to get them to upgrade to vdsl
[19:28] <mungbean> diplo: yes, and my friend mungojerry :)
[19:28] <MartijnVdS> neuro: no wifi at the local starbucks? ;)
[19:28] <neuro> MartijnVdS: my local starbucks is about 10-15mi away
[19:28] <neuro> and i don't really like working from coffee shops
[19:29] <shauno> my cable seems to stay up during power cuts, which is handy
[19:29] <neuro> if you UPS the router, there's no reason it should go down
[19:29] <MartijnVdS> shauno: yay upses ;)
[19:29] <neuro> same with DSL
[19:29] <MartijnVdS> neuro: well, if the other end has a power cut as well...
[19:29] <neuro> that's on my list of Stuff to Buy
[19:29] <neuro> MartijnVdS: the exchange is on a different substation, unlikely
[19:30] <MartijnVdS> neuro: that's not guaranteed though
[19:30] <neuro> odds of the exchange going completely down are slim
[19:30] <shauno> heh, yeah, I have a few.  a UPS meant for a desktop keeps router&modem up for hours
[19:30] <neuro> they'll have redundant supply from diverse suppliers, and generators
[19:30] <neuro> and tbh, touch wood, power cuts here are rare
[19:31] <diddledan_> neuro, how did you get the sky username and password for the pppoe?
[19:31] <MartijnVdS> neuro: true, remnant of 'the old days' when they had to be up in case of bad stuff
[19:31] <neuro> i've had 2 power cuts in the 13 years i've lived here, one about 12 years ago and one in april
[19:31] <neuro> both due to emergency work required
[19:31] <neuro> diddledan_: errr there's a calc that grabs it from the ssid and wpa2 key
[19:31] <MartijnVdS> last power cut I experienced was during a 70mph storm in Sennen Cove a few months ago :)
[19:31] <diddledan_> aah
[19:32] <neuro> and it's not ppoe, it's something else
[19:32] <MartijnVdS> one month, to be exact
[19:32] <shauno> I haven't had a proper outtage, but plenty of "bumps" that are enough to drop the NAS
[19:33] <shauno> they tend to reboot my lights too, which is annoying
[19:33] <diddledan_> serialz?
[19:34] <diddledan_> so it all goes dark because they reboot and then colour cycle the rainbow to indicate boot processes? :-p
[19:34] <diddledan_> that'ld be .. weird
[19:34] <neuro> diddledan_: aha ... MAC Encapsulated Routing, MER: http://wiki.ph-mb.com/wiki/MER#MER_Settings_for_Sky
[19:34] <shauno> nah, they just reset to the default profile (closely matches a regular lightbulb)
[19:34] <neuro> google for sky vdsl login or sky adsl login and you'll find calculators
[19:35] <neuro> it's basically DHCP
[19:35]  * MartijnVdS wrote a HOWTO for my fibre connection
[19:35] <neuro> BT was easy, pppoe user of bthomehub@btbroadband.com with a blank password (or a space, IIRC)
[19:35] <shauno> it's mostly annoying when they're meant to be off, and every light in the house comes on
[19:36] <MartijnVdS> neuro: yeah, I use PPPoE as well, they don't check username or password at all
[19:36] <MartijnVdS> so I taunted the person who reads logs
[19:36] <neuro> bt do that most likely as they use the same router for ADSL2 and VDSL2 users
[19:36] <neuro> with VDSL2 being provisioned using a separate VDSL modem, which then bridges over to the router
[19:37] <neuro> so the auth is probably being done on the MAC layer
[19:37] <neuro> i still have my old Alcatel green frog USB modem round here somewhere ...
[19:38] <neuro> going from 56Kbps to 512Kbps was amazing
[19:38] <MartijnVdS> haha, I had 64/128kbit in between (ISDN)
[19:38] <MartijnVdS> and then 8mbit ADSL (yay working for ISPs)
[19:38] <neuro> i thought about isdn, but settled on a second line + 24/7 dialup
[19:39] <MartijnVdS> they were giving away ISDN here
[19:39] <neuro> MartijnVdS: took me ages to coax free 8Mbps out of my ISP employer in 2006 ;)
[19:39] <neuro> 24/7 dialup was interesting ... thousands of minutes on my phone bill with cost of £0.00
[19:40] <MartijnVdS> how?
[19:40] <shauno> heh, we did that with freeserve
[19:40] <MartijnVdS> cpt crunch?
[19:40] <neuro> BT SurfTime
[19:40] <diddledan_> shauno, ditto
[19:41] <MartijnVdS> dialup was always $expensive on this side of the water
[19:41] <neuro> 25 quid a month to BT to enable the Surftime Anytime service, and another 20 quid a month to Demon for a Surftime compatible tariff
[19:41] <diddledan_> problem with freeserve was the 2hour disconnect
[19:41] <mungbean> great, baby entering pukey phase
[19:41] <neuro> i had to do all sorts of shenanigans when living at home
[19:42] <shauno> yeah.  if you paid for the isp, but not the calls, they'd drop you.  if you paid for the calls but not the isp, they didn't
[19:42] <neuro> my dad wouldn't give me an extension in my room, or let me buy my own line
[19:42] <diddledan_> neuro, ditto
[19:42] <MartijnVdS> http://i.imgur.com/VvEyavQ.png
[19:42] <neuro> so i bought a Nokia NK402 (basically a GSM1800 5110 on Orange)
[19:42] <shauno> it would just be a nuisance, but we had that bt voicemail thing on our line, and it pulsed the dialtone to tell you you had a message waiting.  my modem wouldn't find a dialtone when it did that :/
[19:42] <diddledan_> neuro, so I just tied up the family line 24/7
[19:42] <neuro> got Orange Everyday 50 or whatever it was called
[19:42] <neuro> and BT Openworld for tenner a month
[19:43] <neuro> used BT Openworld on the 0800 number until midnight
[19:43] <neuro> then used 50 minutes 0845 to Freeserve
[19:43] <neuro> the phone was connected to a 486 running NT4 workstation with some random routing sw i can't remember the name of
[19:44] <neuro> signal was crap, but it worked
[19:44] <diddledan_> wingate?
[19:44] <neuro> YES
[19:44] <neuro> that's the fella
[19:44] <MartijnVdS> oh man, wingate
[19:44] <diddledan_> yeah, wingate was evil
[19:44] <neuro> oh totally
[19:44] <diddledan_> left open proxies all over the shop
[19:44] <MartijnVdS> I'm so glad I discovered Linux in '97 ;)
[19:44] <neuro> but it did the job
[19:44] <MartijnVdS> slackware woo!
[19:45] <neuro> oh how i miss slackware
[19:45] <MartijnVdS> I broke my install in the libc5->6 upgrade
[19:45] <shauno> heh, I started on slack 3.3 too
[19:45] <MartijnVdS> so then I tried Red Hat, Debian, and several other distros.. so I picked Debian
[19:45] <neuro> downloading the floppies in 1994 from uni
[19:45] <neuro> then getting home and finding out one of them was corrupt
[19:45] <diddledan_> ouch
[19:46] <neuro> so had to wait to go back into uni the next day and reimage the floppy
[19:46] <neuro> and go back home and start aaaaaall over again
[19:46] <neuro> best day of my life was doing a debian netinst cd install and pulling the packages down over the 2Mbps link at work
[19:46] <neuro> oh bliss
[19:46] <neuro> look, the cd iso, it's TINY
[19:47] <neuro> actually, that wasn't the *best* day of my *entire* life, but it was a good day
[19:47] <daftykins> :D
[19:47] <MartijnVdS> Uni had 10 mbit (10base2), so downloading was easy
[19:48] <daftykins> not having broadband used to be a real lock on the door of Linux learning + use
[19:48] <neuro> loser ;)
[19:48] <daftykins> i kind of envy kids today for that
[19:48] <neuro> i seem to recall gla.ac.uk having epic bandwidth
[19:48] <MartijnVdS> neuro: in '97-8 10 mbit was a LOT
[19:48] <neuro> downloading netscape from sunsite northern europe in ridiculous time
[19:48] <MartijnVdS> oh sunsite, wow
[19:48] <MartijnVdS> I remember that :)
[19:48] <shauno> it didn't hold me back much, used to get debian on CD from thelinuxemporium
[19:49] <neuro> MartijnVdS: in the UK, SuperJANET had already been deployed by the time i started uni in 94
[19:49] <neuro> 34Mbps ATM
[19:49] <neuro> 1995 it was 155Mbps
[19:49] <neuro> 2001, 155-2.5Gbps
[19:50] <MartijnVdS> neuro: yeah, Surfnet also had something like that.. but our "play room" just got a 10base2 wire, so we had that limit
[19:50] <neuro> our little spodbox was on 10/100 \o/
[19:50] <neuro> shauno: i loved the linux emporium!
[19:51] <MartijnVdS> neuro: we had a big HP/UX box that you needed to kick when it was down
[19:51] <neuro> blimeh, it's still going
[19:51] <MartijnVdS> because the disks sagged
[19:51] <neuro> although (and ahhh i remember this now), john sold it to chygwyn in 2003
[19:51] <shauno> getting a full set of debian potato (binary & source) on CD was pretty epic when I was on dialup with the 2hour disconnect
[19:52] <neuro> then it got sold onto thyme/clockwork in 2005
[19:52] <neuro> shauno: nice
[19:52] <diddledan_> shauno I used windows with getright for spanning multiple 2hour blocks
[19:52] <brobostigon> watching bbc2, it seems heathrow airtraffic control use MS windows xp.
[19:52] <shauno> I knew winters doesn't do it anymore, but didn't know where it'd gone.  not that I recognise any of the names
[19:52] <neuro> MartijnVdS: we had a 486 frankenstein box hidden away in the water tank room of the students representatives council building :)
[19:53] <neuro> chygwyn i vaguely recognise, but only with respect to them buying TLE
[19:53] <neuro> and i see their registered address isn't far from my uncle's house :)
[19:53] <neuro> randoM!
[19:53] <MartijnVdS> neuro: we had a proper Pentium 1 233MHz (with MMX)
[19:54] <neuro> noice
[19:54] <MartijnVdS> and we had our own "play room" full of old Suns and X terminals and a big HP/UX fridge-sized machien
[19:54] <shauno> odd name though, it's something-head in welsh?
[19:54] <neuro> we had to figure something out when we all left uni, so we managed to get a PII under someone's desk at a hosting company ;)
[19:54] <MartijnVdS> shauno: chygwyn? cygwin!
[19:55] <neuro> then we went "kosher" and shoved a sun ss20 in a hoster's dc in nottingham
[19:55] <neuro> then dual pIII in telehouse, and now some weird ESXi thing i've never seen in the same place
[19:55] <neuro> shauno: well gwyn is a welsh name ...
[19:55] <MartijnVdS> neuro: I never went to classes, so I got kicked out after a year.. so I joined my local (as in, in my town :)) ISP
[19:56] <neuro> nice
[19:56] <neuro> see, you guys are lucky, you don't have to route over hundreds of miles just to get to landing points
[19:56] <neuro> or exchange points
[19:56] <mungbean> yggdrasil
[19:56] <neuro> if i want to connect to the linux box in my parents house, 1mi away, i have to go via london to get there
[19:57] <neuro> ahhh yggdrasil, never used it
[19:57] <mungbean> officially the first distro i think
[19:57] <mungbean> i was rh5 in '99
[19:57] <mungbean> solaris since 93 tho
[19:58] <mungbean> i never touched windows until 96
[19:58] <mungbean> risc os ftw
[19:59] <neuro> i was all over the place
[20:00] <neuro> win3.x and AIX in college 92-93, win3.x, mac os 7.whatever, sunos in uni 93-94, then the long march of win 3.x, 95, 98, 2k, win nt 3.5, 4.x, netware 3-4, debian, red hat in my first real job
[20:01] <neuro> (oh and dos 5-6 in there as well)
[20:01] <neuro> diddledan_: anyway, my point long ago was, you're on 80Mbps, but there are still some people in the UK who struggle to get 1Mbps, or even better than dialup.
[20:02] <mgdm> +1
[20:02] <mgdm> (not me, personally, but people I know)
[20:05] <neuro> this is why crazy stuff happens like white space trials to use gaps in UHF 600-800Mhz for wireless backhaul to people up here in Scotland who refuse to move out of their idyllic cottages in remote places for some mad reason
[20:05] <MartijnVdS> http://labs.spotify.com/2013/06/18/creative-usernames/
[20:06] <MartijnVdS> neuro: We use 800MHz for 4G here..
[20:06] <neuro> yeah, that's the plan here too
[20:06] <MartijnVdS> neuro: but our remotest areas are parts of Groningen.. and they're close to Germany
[20:06] <neuro> pain in the arse really, it's all about a cash/land grab
[20:07] <neuro> they could have used the freqs freed up from analog tv to add more digital DVB-T/T2 muxes, but noooooo
[20:07] <neuro> Ofcom wantee ze cashee goodness
[20:08] <mungbean> http://i.imgur.com/EottKzr.jpg
[20:08] <mungbean> tux caterpillar
[20:08] <MartijnVdS> mungbean: does it run Linux? :)
[20:09] <neuro> aaaaaaaaaaah kill it with fire
[20:09] <MartijnVdS> neuro: it's not a spider
[20:09] <neuro> it's a crawly thing
[20:09] <neuro> and i mashed cmd+q instead of cmd+w to get rid of the tab
[20:09] <neuro> Chrome's "Warn before quitting" option, ftw
[20:10] <mungbean> did you see the penguins though neuro ?
[20:10] <diddledan_> genetic engineering?
[20:10] <mgdm> neuro: https://i.chzbgr.com/maxW500/6153751552/hC85366D2/
[20:10] <neuro> all i saw was CRAWLY THING and mashed on keys
[20:11] <neuro> mgdm: i need that
[20:11] <mgdm> here's a tip, by the way
[20:11] <neuro> nice akira references in there too
[20:11] <neuro> mgdm: what, don't click on stuff?
[20:11] <mgdm> if you're not a fan of crawly things, make sure you don't do a Google image search for 'NOPE'
[20:11] <neuro> see, now i want to
[20:11] <mgdm> No, you don't
[20:11] <neuro> despite the obvious painful repercussions
[20:12] <mungbean> some images cannot be unseen
[20:12] <mungbean> i think of 2 or 3
[20:12] <MartijnVdS> mungbean: http://mindbleach.org/
[20:13]  * mungbean catches up with watching the inbetweeners
[20:13] <mungbean> series1-3 in about 1 week
[20:13] <neuro> mgdm: actually, ratio of creepy pics to image macros is pretty good
[20:13] <mgdm> yeah, but the presence of the former makes me shiver, still
[20:22] <diddledan_> so my humble bundle email arrived an hour after I bought it
[20:22] <MartijnVdS> *\o/* going to Spa
[20:22] <MartijnVdS> for F1
[20:22] <MartijnVdS> everything is actually booked now
[20:22] <diddledan_> \o/
[20:23] <brobostigon> personally, i like to pop down the road, and visit some F1 engineers, and learn abit of controller programming.
[20:24] <neuro> gits
[20:25] <diddledan_> If they'd let me I'd pop over to the Williams headquarters for a chinwag
[20:25] <diddledan_> about 20 miles?
[20:25] <brobostigon> now that sounds fun.
[20:25] <neuro> you're in oxfordshire?
[20:25] <brobostigon> yes.
[20:25] <diddledan_> north hampshire to be exact, but close
[20:26] <neuro> blimeh
[20:26] <neuro> i was there a fortnight ago
[20:26] <mungbean> i drive past mclaren in woking a lot
[20:27] <brobostigon> how the world is such a small place,
[20:27] <neuro> http://4sq.com/13R4uut
[20:29] <MartijnVdS> is that "aahhhhh" as in a relieved sigh, or as in "AAAAAAAAAGH SUNLIGHT TURN IT OFF"
[20:30] <MartijnVdS> neuro: ^
[20:30] <neuro> former
[20:30] <neuro> i had had a pretty crappy day travelling the day prior
[20:31] <neuro> ~ 10-11 hrs to go door to door
[20:32] <bigcalm> Take a door with you
[20:33] <neuro> ba dum tsh
[20:33] <MartijnVdS> bigcalm: That could end up like Neverwhere though
[20:33] <neuro> would have been charged a fortune to check it in though
[20:33] <MartijnVdS> bigcalm: \o/ Neil Gaiman
[20:33] <bigcalm> :)
[20:34]  * MartijnVdS bought his new book.. it's next on my to-read list
[20:34] <bigcalm> Last I read by him was Good Omens with Terry Pratechett. That was some time ago
[20:35] <MartijnVdS> bigcalm: http://www.amazon.co.uk/The-Ocean-End-Lane-Novel/dp/0062255657
[20:36] <bigcalm> I have no experience of his novels other than Good Omens, so have no idea if I want to read that or not
[20:38] <MartijnVdS> bigcalm: I haven't read that one either.. you could start with Neverwhere, or American Gods, I guess
[20:38] <MartijnVdS> I *know* those are good :)
[20:39] <AlanBell> Good Omens is very good, but it was a lot Pratchett
[20:39] <AlanBell> Gaiman isn't anywhere near as funny on his own
[20:39]  * bigcalm goes to watch last night's Mythbusters
[20:39] <MartijnVdS> I've tried to read Discworld.. but I can't
[20:39] <MartijnVdS> AlanBell: he might not be funny, but his stories are good :)
[20:40] <AlanBell> I have rather a lot of discworld books
[20:40] <MartijnVdS> AlanBell: I finished 2.5
[20:40] <MartijnVdS> AlanBell: then I gave up
[20:40] <brobostigon> so does my dad, i prefer hitchhikers.
[20:40]  * mgdm considers buying HHGTTG for the Kindle
[20:40] <mgdm> as my dead-tree copy is about 200 miles away
[20:40] <brobostigon> which one?
[20:41] <MartijnVdS> mgdm: that's probably very meta ;)
[20:41] <mgdm> all of 'em :-)
[20:41] <brobostigon> :)
[20:41] <MartijnVdS> mgdm: "the guide" (in the book) is a lot like a Kindle
[20:41] <mgdm> MartijnVdS: the thought had crossed my mind :)
[20:41] <mgdm> I've read it many times, just not for about 3 years
[20:42] <brobostigon> i have the whole lot, read it all once, on a long coach journey.
[20:44] <daftykins> mgdm: let's abuse tech - i'll put a laptop on my book and face it at pages with a webcam
[20:44] <daftykins> XD
[20:44] <mgdm> haha
[20:51] <diddledan_> was this a kickstarter? http://www.fairphone.com/
[21:05] <mungbean> i got the hhgtttg complete set on kindle for 2.19£
[21:06] <MartijnVdS> wut
[21:06] <mungbean> although i own in paper format, it made space in my house
[21:06] <mungbean> must have been a special offer
[21:06] <MartijnVdS> I can only use the US store :(
[21:07] <mungbean> kindle daily deals
[21:07] <MartijnVdS> Ultimate H2G2 = $18
[21:07] <mungbean> thats the one
[21:08]  * MartijnVdS has http://www.amazon.co.uk/Dining-With-The-Doctor-Unauthorized/dp/1481153684
[21:08] <MartijnVdS> it was free when I got it
[21:08] <mungbean> daily deals has been lame lately
[21:08] <mungbean> thats a good thing
[21:09] <mungbean> = less money spent on books
[21:17] <popey> evening all
[21:19] <MartijnVdS> \o popey
[21:19] <popey> successfully turned home town from blue to green on ingress this evening
[21:20] <MartijnVdS> you're green?
[21:20] <MartijnVdS> my coworkers are blue
[21:20] <MartijnVdS> apparently, my town is green.. so I heard
[21:24] <diddledan_> o_O
[21:24] <diddledan_> am I missing something?
[21:24] <naderp> z
[21:24] <MartijnVdS> diddledan_: http://www.ingress.com/
[21:27]  * popey has a bunch of invites...
[21:27] <diddledan_> sweet. that looks cool
[21:27] <popey> want an invite?
[21:27] <popey> (and do you have an android device)?
[21:28] <diddledan_> I do, and I do
[21:28] <diddledan_> :-p
[21:28] <popey> gimmie your google account address (pm if you want)
[21:29] <popey> sent
[21:29] <diddledan_> done
[21:29] <diddledan_> thankeee :-)
[21:29] <popey> np
[21:35] <Darael> ...anybody know of a set of programs that work like mh but can use a maildir instead of MH-format messagestores?
[21:35] <mgdm> Darael: http://www.jeenyus.net/linux/mdmh.html ?
[21:36] <Darael> mgdm: If that's the mdmh I've seen before, it's incomplete, explicitly inefficient, and hasn't had an work done since 2011.
[21:36] <Darael> But yes, something very much like that is what I'm looking for.
[21:37] <mgdm> Then, pass
[21:37] <Darael> s/11/04/ (!)
[21:37] <mgdm> I've not done anything that was CLI-based for mail in about 8 years, unless you count mutt
[21:37] <mgdm> (this makes me happy)
[21:38] <Darael> I like the idea of mh but the messagestore format is... ew.
[21:42] <diddledan_> thank god for qmail
[21:43] <diddledan_> (maildir is from qmail iirc)
[21:43] <Darael> It is, yes.
[21:43] <diddledan_> yey for dan bernstein then
[21:43] <Darael> Although that the original spec doesn't provide for nested directories is something of an oversight.
[21:44] <Darael> Still, no matter.  maildir++ may technically be a violation but it's a widely-supported one and one that doesn't cause problems with fully-compliant implementations.