[11:59] <cyphermox> #startmeeting 1200 UTC Ubuntu Membership Board
[11:59] <meetingology> Meeting started Wed Jun 19 11:59:55 2013 UTC.  The chair is cyphermox. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
[11:59] <meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
[12:00] <cyphermox> Hello and welcome to the Ubuntu Membership Review Board for the 1200 UTC meeting for June 19, 2013.
[12:00] <cyphermox> The wiki page for the Review Board is available here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership/Boards
[12:00] <cyphermox> We will attempt to get through all of the applicants that have added themselves to that list before today's meeting. If we are unable to make it through the entire list due to time constraints, then at the next meeting we will pick up where we left off.
[12:00] <cyphermox> The format for the meeting is as follows: We will go through the list of applicants one by one, by date of application (FIFO).
[12:00] <cyphermox> Each applicant should introduce themselves (1-5 sentences) and provide links to their Ubuntu Wiki page. After the introduction the members of the Membership Review Board will review the pages and, if needed, ask the applicant further questions.
[12:00] <cyphermox> During this time it is encouraged for other members of the community to show their support for the applicant. Do not be alarmed if the members of the Membership Review Board are quiet during this time; they are most likely reading wiki/launchpad/forum/other pages and deciding how they are going to vote.
[12:00] <cyphermox> When the board is ready to vote, they will publicly vote in the channel with either +1, 0, or -1 (for membership, abstain, and against membership, respectively). If the sum of those numbers is positive, then the applicant is now an official Ubuntu member! (feel free congratulate them!)
[12:01] <cyphermox> #voters cyphermox Pendulum jared freeflying iulian hggdh micahg
[12:01] <meetingology> Warning: Nick not in channel: freeflying
[12:01] <meetingology> Current voters: Pendulum cyphermox freeflying hggdh iulian jared micahg
[12:01] <surgemcgee_> Sounds good.
[12:02] <cyphermox> Now, without any further ado, lets get started with the first applicant...
[12:02] <cyphermox> #subtopic Pietro Albini (pietro98-albini)
[12:03] <pietro98-albini> Hello everybody and sorry for my bad english
[12:03] <pietro98-albini> I'm Pietro Albini, an Italian boy
[12:04] <pietro98-albini> I start to contribute to Ubuntu in the Italian LoCoTeam managing its website, and in January 2013 I got the LoCo membership
[12:05] <pietro98-albini> After that I start to write to the LoCo newsletter and triage bugs, but I don't have enough time to triage and I stop some time ago to contribute
[12:05] <warp10> I already endorsed pietro98-albini on the wiki, but I want to remark his work during the latest italian Debian/Ubuntu Community Conference, where he has proven, once again, to be a cornerstone of the italian community. Keep up the good work, Pietro!
[12:06] <pietro98-albini> Other I'm an adminstrator of a new service of the LoCo, Chiedi, a "parody" of askubuntu in italian language, but due to sysadmins the service is not start now
[12:06] <iulian> pietro98-albini: Would you consider restarting that, or is your decision final?
[12:07] <pietro98-albini> iulian, in LoCo I do a lot of work, and I must study (i'm 14)
[12:07] <iulian> pietro98-albini: I mean bug triaging.
[12:07] <pietro98-albini> iulian, I know
[12:08] <pietro98-albini> Also I start few days ago to moderate Ubuntu-it social network groups/pages
[12:08] <pietro98-albini> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/PietroAlbini
[12:08] <pietro98-albini> https://launchpad.net/~pietro98-albini
[12:08] <iulian> You mentioned that you stopped doing that... do you plan to get back on it some time in the future?
[12:08] <pietro98-albini> iulian, if I have a lot of free time yes
[12:10] <pietro98-albini> In website team I made lots of pages, and I'm the trainer for newbies
[12:10] <iulian> pietro98-albini: So your future plan is to keep working with the LoCo team, is that correct?
[12:10] <pietro98-albini> iulian, yes
[12:10] <pietro98-albini> iulian, I think Italian LoCo is a fantastic place with wonderful people
[12:10]  * warp10 nods
[12:11] <iulian> Great.
[12:13] <Trevinho> I also can also confirm here that pietro98-albini is doing really an amazing work for the (Italian) ubuntu community... keep up the good work!
[12:14] <cyphermox> #vote Pietro Albini (pietro98-albini) to obtain Ubuntu Membership
[12:14] <meetingology> Please vote on: Pietro Albini (pietro98-albini) to obtain Ubuntu Membership
[12:14] <meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
[12:15] <cyphermox> +1 good LoCo work, though it would be nice to see more involvement in other things too!
[12:15] <meetingology> +1 good LoCo work, though it would be nice to see more involvement in other things too! received from cyphermox
[12:16] <Pendulum> +1
[12:16] <meetingology> +1 received from Pendulum
[12:17] <hggdh> +1 Good LoCo, but please look around too ;-)
[12:17] <meetingology> +1 Good LoCo, but please look around too ;-) received from hggdh
[12:17] <Xenon_> +1
[12:17] <micahg> +1
[12:17] <meetingology> +1 received from micahg
[12:18] <iulian> +0
[12:18] <meetingology> +0 received from iulian
[12:18] <amirolahmad> +1
[12:19] <cyphermox> #endvote
[12:19] <meetingology> Voting ended on: Pietro Albini (pietro98-albini) to obtain Ubuntu Membership
[12:19] <meetingology> Votes for:4 Votes against:0 Abstentions:1
[12:19] <meetingology> Motion carried
[12:19] <pietro98-albini> :D
[12:19] <warp10> pietro98-albini: ^5!
[12:19] <hggdh> pietro98-albini: welcome :-)
[12:19] <pietro98-albini> hggdh, thanks :D
[12:19] <cyphermox> welcome pietro98-albini
[12:19] <Pendulum> pietro98-albini: congrats and welcome!
[12:20] <cyphermox> moving on since we have lots of applicants today :)
[12:20] <cyphermox> #subtopic Mattia Migliorini (deshack)
[12:20] <pietro98-albini> Thanks everybody :D
[12:20] <cyphermox> deshack: you there?
[12:20] <Trevinho> pietro98-albini: welcome abroad! ;)
[12:20] <deshack> Hi guys, I'm italian too
[12:20] <Trevinho> aboard*
[12:20] <pietro98-albini> The italian band :P
[12:20] <Xenon_> :D
[12:21] <surgemcgee_> I am encouraged by this atmosphere. Congratulations Pietro.
[12:21]  * warp10 loves stereotypes and cooks some pizza
[12:21] <deshack> I contribute to ubuntu-it since July 2012 (starting by contributing to the Translations Team), than became a member of the Website Team in September
[12:22] <deshack> Now I'm a leader of the Press Team
[12:22] <deshack> Apart from that, I'm studying Computer Science at the university
[12:23] <deshack> therefore my highest interest is to become, sooner or later, Ubuntu Developer ;)
[12:23] <deshack> Wiki Page: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MattiaMigliorini
[12:23] <deshack> Launchpad: https://launchpad.net/~deshack
[12:24] <ApOgEE> hi all
[12:25] <iulian> deshack: Thanks.
[12:26] <cyphermox> #vote Mattia Migliorini (deshack) to obtain Ubuntu Membership
[12:26] <meetingology> Please vote on: Mattia Migliorini (deshack) to obtain Ubuntu Membership
[12:26] <meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
[12:26] <iulian> +1
[12:26] <meetingology> +1 received from iulian
[12:26] <hggdh> +1 good work!
[12:26] <meetingology> +1 good work! received from hggdh
[12:26] <cyphermox> +1
[12:26] <meetingology> +1 received from cyphermox
[12:27] <cyphermox> nice work, I especially like the inkscape bug about size units, that seems really weird to me, I'll take a good look at it
[12:27] <Pendulum> +1
[12:27] <meetingology> +1 received from Pendulum
[12:27] <micahg> +1
[12:27] <meetingology> +1 received from micahg
[12:28] <cyphermox> #endvote
[12:28] <meetingology> Voting ended on: Mattia Migliorini (deshack) to obtain Ubuntu Membership
[12:28] <meetingology> Votes for:5 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
[12:28] <meetingology> Motion carried
[12:28] <warp10> deshack: ^5!
[12:28] <pietro98-albini> deshack, :D
[12:28] <deshack> cyphermox: thanks :) I don't remember if the suggestions reported there helped
[12:28] <Xenon_> :D
[12:28] <cyphermox> deshack: I think so, but it still seems wrong
[12:28] <Pendulum> deshack: congrats and welcome!
[12:28]  * warp10 waves an italian flag to celebrate
[12:28] <cyphermox> #subtopic Amirol Ahmad (amirolahmad)
[12:29] <amirolahmad> Hello guys
[12:29] <deshack> cyphermox: yes, I don't think that adjusting the ppi by hand every time helps too much
[12:29] <cyphermox> amirolahmad: please introduce yourself :)
[12:29] <deshack> Pendulum: thanks!
[12:29] <amirolahmad> 2 Italian has pass now for asian turn
[12:29] <amirolahmad> I am AmirolAhmad from Malaysia
[12:30] <amirolahmad> I contribute to Malaysia Loco team and been active since 1 and half years ago
[12:31] <amirolahmad> What I do for loco is i help new members in our FB groups about what Ubuntu is (https://www.facebook.com/groups/ubuntumy/). Please check out my wiki page - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AmirolAhmad)
[12:32] <amirolahmad> And also i'm HAM radio members in Malaysia (9W2PDF) so I heard there is Ubuntu-HAM so i wanted to be there and lets see what i can do for the community
[12:33] <amirolahmad> Working as System Administrator at my own company (www.osemspace.com) but sometime love to some programming
[12:34] <amirolahmad> That's all guys
[12:35] <ApOgEE> amirolahmad is an active member in Ubuntu Malaysia LoCo Team
[12:35] <hggdh> amirolahmad: first of all, thank you for all your work. But I cannot see any sustained activity that I can verify
[12:36] <hggdh> amirolahmad: I can see a lot of plans -- future --, but not really past. And we *need* to verify the "sustained" part of the requirement
[12:37] <amirolahmad> hggdh: note about that.
[12:38] <hggdh> amirolahmad: so, on my personal view: please come back later, say, half year's time. And make sure you get other people to write testimonials for you
[12:38] <hggdh> amirolahmad: ideally, other Ubuntu members
[12:38] <amirolahmad> I've a lot of commitment to do but what can i do is i help newbie in our Ubuntu Malaysia Loco Team in FB page
[12:39] <hggdh> amirolahmad: I understand, and I appreciate. But "commitment to do" is *not* "sustained work done". And "work done" is one of our requirements
[12:41] <cyphermox> Indeed
[12:42] <cyphermox> amirolahmad: I'd like to invite you to re-apply for membership in a few months when you have some more work done in the community, then we'll be more than happy to have this meeting again and add you to the team
[12:42] <cyphermox> let's continue the meeting
[12:42] <amirolahmad> Sure and thank you :)
[12:42] <cyphermox> #subtopic Robert Steckroth (surgemcgee__)
[12:42] <surgemcgee__> Hello board members and potentials. My name Is Robert Steckroth (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RobertSteckroth).
[12:43] <surgemcgee__> I am asking for Ubuntu Membership and would like to extend some reinforcement of my own.\
[12:43] <surgemcgee__>  I believe that the results of quality leadership and contributions are in reveled throughout the community which I see and experience everyday.
[12:44] <surgemcgee__> This is why the Ubuntu Membership is important to me.
[12:45] <jared> Good evening all, sorry I'm late, I'll be joining in for this candidate
[12:45] <surgemcgee__> *revealed
[12:46] <jared> surgemcgee__: Can you tell us when you started working on Ubuntu applications?
[12:46] <surgemcgee__> Ubuntu application development has been a working endeacour for ~ a year.
[12:47] <surgemcgee__> I started PySurface (a quickly like application) and then moved into the Touch platform.
[12:47] <jared> surgemcgee__: I personally am not a developer so I'm not sure on the efforts for the work created, do you interact with other developers much? I would probably have expected a couple more testimonials.
[12:49] <surgemcgee__> Hmm, I have had small amounts of contacts with Mr. Castro. Also, I am always seeking to bolster a project which I find interesting.
[12:49] <Pendulum> surgemcgee__: Launchpad says you joined your state's LoCo team about a year ago, have you had any involvement with them?
[12:50] <surgemcgee__> Regarding your request, I couldeve been more proactive regarding my Wiki page.
[12:50] <hggdh> what worries me is the "sustained" part of the requirements (very much like the previous candidate)
[12:51] <surgemcgee__> I have continued a daily interest and contibuted throughout many Ubuntu projects.
[12:52] <jared> surgemcgee__: the requirement is generally for at least a full cycle (6 months) of significant and sustained contributions so we just need to see it's continued.
[12:52] <Pendulum> surgemcgee__: is there anyone who can speak to how long you've been contributing? Also, to show us a bit more community involvement (Ubuntu Membership is recognition of being part of the community, as well)
[12:52] <surgemcgee__> The Stock ticker app was 6 months easy.
[12:53] <surgemcgee__> Also, my Loco team was not too accessible at the time, while I did put forth effort to contribute.
[12:54] <jared> surgemcgee__: ok, based on the 5 minutes or so we have to evaluate each candidate I think it's too difficult to prove the sustained aspect of you application at this time.
[12:55] <hggdh> I agree.
[12:55] <cyphermox> I concur
[12:55] <jared> surgemcgee__: my personal opinion is that I would much rather see some more testimonials from those you interact with to show significant and sustained contributions as the launchpad profile really doesn't explain most of that
[12:56] <cyphermox> Let's move on to the next applicant, since we're just about out of time
[12:56] <hggdh> surgemcgee__: consider returning in, say, half year's time, please
[12:57] <surgemcgee__> I do, thgank you for your time.
[12:57] <cyphermox> err, mzanetti doesn't seem to be here, so I don't think there are other applicants after all
[12:57] <hggdh> ah well.
[12:57] <hggdh> So, I guess we are done, right?
[12:58] <cyphermox> yeah
[12:58] <jared> surgemcgee__: it's not that it's possible you've already contributed enough but it's not really apparent enough for us to make a decision on
[12:58] <jared> surgemcgee__: also happy to discuss further or give a pre-evaluation next time if you think that would be useful
[12:58] <cyphermox> Thanks everyone for showing up, and I look forward to seeing re-applications later on :)
[12:58] <cyphermox> #endmeeting
[12:58] <meetingology> Meeting ended Wed Jun 19 12:58:48 2013 UTC.
[12:58] <meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-06-19-11.59.moin.txt
[12:58] <meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-06-19-11.59.html
[13:02] <mzanetti> hey, sorry I'm late :/
[13:02] <cyphermox> mzanetti: oops
[13:02] <cyphermox> mzanetti: would you mind showing to the next meeting?
[13:03] <cyphermox> we've already ended this one, and people on the board had to leave for various reasons -- we're out of our time slot too, even though I don't think there are further meetings for now
[13:03] <cyphermox> (for the next hour or so I mean)
[13:04] <mzanetti> cyphermox: sure... Its my fault I missed it... Seems I have to wait for another month then tho
[13:05] <cyphermox> mzanetti: or you may go to the 2200UTC meeting if that works for your timezone
[13:05] <cyphermox> it's not today, but it's in two weeks instead of in a month
[13:06] <mzanetti> cyphermox: thats 00:00 around here... should be ok. not sure about it yet
[13:06] <cyphermox> ok
[15:01]  * slangasek waves
[15:02] <stokachu> /o/
[15:02] <slangasek> #startmeeting
[15:02] <meetingology> Meeting started Wed Jun 19 15:02:59 2013 UTC.  The chair is slangasek. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
[15:03] <meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
[15:04] <slangasek> [TOPIC] Lightning round
[15:05] <slangasek> $ echo $(shuf -e barry doko stgraber jodh ev bdmurray slangasek cjwatson xnox stokachu)
[15:05] <slangasek> doko bdmurray ev xnox cjwatson stokachu jodh slangasek stgraber barry
[15:05] <slangasek> doko: moin :)
[15:05]  * barry is not sure if he wins or loses
[15:05] <doko> wow, first time the first after years ...
[15:05] <doko> - chase down a regression in GCC 4.8 and lto
[15:05] <doko> - build a gcj cross compiler
[15:05] <doko> - cross build gcj, should have a gcj for aarch64 soonish
[15:05] <doko> - next step is trying to cross build openjdk
[15:05] <doko> - looked into issues with the armhf gcc cross builds (multilib related)
[15:05] <doko> (done)
[15:06] <bdmurray> modifications to the phased-updater code
[15:06] <bdmurray> modifications to phased-updater code to show 0% and what the % before was
[15:06] <bdmurray> resolved an issue with the package crash rate check not working in the phased-updater
[15:06] <bdmurray> merge proposal for package-rate-of-crashes returning a number for the difference
[15:06] <bdmurray> reported errors bug 1191182 regarding &version being appended when choosing &period
[15:06] <bdmurray> worked with thedac to update errors to r435
[15:06] <bdmurray> investigation into and resolution of oops querying bucketversionsystems2
[15:06] <bdmurray> irc discussion with cjwatson and infinity regarding sru-release and copy package
[15:06] <bdmurray> reported bug 1192286 regarding phased update percentage and copy package
[15:06] <bdmurray> reported bug 1192332 regarding SRU of update-manager
[15:06] <bdmurray> updated meta-release file on changelogs for bug 1173209
[15:06] <bdmurray> approval of Fabio Marconi in ubuntu bug control
[15:06] <bdmurray> tested bug 1175637
[15:07] <bdmurray> ␗ done
[15:07] <ev> - Bringing back the diagnostics page to activity-log-manager. It was
[15:07] <ev>   accidentally dropped as they rewrote the build system (most of the code is
[15:07] <ev>   Vala, ours is C):
[15:07] <ev>   https://code.launchpad.net/~ev/activity-log-manager/add-whoopsie-back/+merge/169855
[15:07] <ev>   - Spent some time updating the packaging, only to find that Jeremy had done
[15:07] <ev>     much the same thing.
[15:07] <ev> - Some hand holding of the two back population jobs we've been trying to get
[15:07] <ev>   completed the past few weeks (we've had to kill them a few time due to high
[15:07] <ev>   load - the cluster is at 3TB per node, which is putting too much on each
[15:07] <ev>   machine).
[15:07] <ev>   - The first improves our calculation of the average errors per calendar day
[15:07] <ev>     graph, and will be finished in just under a day:
[15:07] <ev>     https://bugs.launchpad.net/errors/+bug/1069827
[15:07] <ev>     https://bugs.launchpad.net/daisy/+bug/1077122
[15:07] <ev>     - This will need to be run a second time for the data to be accurate.
[15:07] <ev>   - The second rebuilds the table of releases and binary package versions for
[15:07] <ev>     each problem ("Package versions with this error"), and will finish by the
[15:07] <ev>     weekend:
[15:07] <ev>     https://errors.ubuntu.com/problem/4eebfa6d3f91386f752207eeaf410b5a8ce81081
[15:07] <ev>     - There will be a second phase to this that adjusts the counters based on
[15:07] <ev>       the data generated here.
[15:07] <ev> - Firefighting the Cassandra nodes being critically out of space.
[15:07] <ev>   - Spent an evening digging through the database, looking for invalid data,
[15:07] <ev>     but it only forms significantly less than 0.05% of all the error reports.
[15:08] <ev>   - Tom agrees that purging unneeded data wont gain us much. Liam is now full
[15:08] <ev>     time on bringing up Cassandra nodes in Prodstack.
[15:08] <ev> - Code review for Brian.
[15:08] <ev> - More discussion on enabling error reporting on Ubuntu Server.
[15:08] <ev> - Delivered the amended NDA for hunting security vulnerabilities to Kees.
[15:08] <ev> - Added revno headers to lp:errors with added support to the deployment
[15:08] <ev>   scripts.
[15:08] <ev> - Added Hadoop support to lp:error-tracker-deployment \o/. Further deployments
[15:08] <ev>   to stagingstack/prodstack will have a Hadoop namenode and jobtracker, as well
[15:08] <ev>   as a datanode, tasktracker, and pig shell on each Cassandra node.
[15:08] <ev> - Moved to Cassandra 1.2 in the default (the settings we use for Tarmac and our
[15:08] <ev>   own testing) lp:error-tracker-deployment deployment. Built
[15:08] <ev>   libcassandra-dpkgversiontype-java for C* 1.2.5 and verified everything still
[15:08] <ev>   works. Hooray for integration tests.
[15:08] <ev> - Slowly working on accounting for realistic SLAs in the services we build and
[15:08] <ev>   depend on. First up, handling Swift 503s:
[15:08] <ev>   https://bugs.launchpad.net/daisy/+bug/1191859
[15:08] <ev> (done)
[15:08] <xnox> * gcc-android toolchain: dropped clang/llvm/compiler-rt build-deps,
[15:08] <xnox>   building phablet image using that toolchain. Grouper image builds,
[15:08] <xnox>   now trying to boot it.
[15:08] <xnox> * upstart-jobs: forwarded dbus, at. Also filed
[15:08] <xnox>   http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=712763 as
[15:08] <xnox>   alternative way to implement policy compliant lsb init scripts.
[15:08] <xnox> * uploaded upstart raring SRU with full-serialisation (lossless
[15:08] <xnox>   stateful rexec) and reload-configuration fixes. SRU team, please
[15:08] <xnox>   review.
[15:08] <xnox> * uploaded ubiquity update with u1 bugfixes and UI tweaks, drop of
[15:08] <xnox>   gksudo.
[15:09] <xnox> done.
[15:09] <cjwatson> A few fixups for build failures in main.
[15:09] <cjwatson> foundations-1305-arm64-bringup: Discussions re simulator and next stages of bringup.
[15:09] <cjwatson> Backported upstream parted patches for bug 1187560.
[15:09] <cjwatson> community-s-autopkgtesting: Finally attached autopkgtest to proposed-migration with sticky tape and chicken wire.  There are still a couple of bits to clean up before I announce it to developers but it's mostly there and working.
[15:09] <cjwatson> Disentangled signon-ui vs. powerpc vs. proposed-migration problems.
[15:09] <cjwatson> foundations-1305-click-package: Fleshed out work items.  Working on finalising click-package file format and polishing prototype in preparation for upload to saucy.
[15:09] <cjwatson> ..
[15:09] <stokachu> - released sosreport 3.0
[15:09] <stokachu> - rest of my time spent building and productizing a security auditing tool
[15:09] <stokachu> - no bugs on fire
[15:09] <stokachu> (done)
[15:12] <slangasek> bdmurray: AIUI bug #1192286 is critical path for rollout of phased-updates now... do we know when that might get fixed?
[15:12] <cjwatson> jodh is still on holiday, so it's slangasek
[15:12] <bdmurray> slangasek: no, I don't know when it might get fixed
[15:12] <cjwatson> slangasek: I can probably look at it soon - asked bdmurray to file it since I kept forgetting
[15:13] <cjwatson> will have a crack at it tomorrow since I think I was last to touch that code anyway
[15:14] <cjwatson> William didn't entirely explode at my suggested fix
[15:16] <slangasek> xnox: can I suggest discussing 712763 on debian-devel as well?  I dunno how the lsb maintainer feels about it, but I would certainly like to see some kind of consensus so we don't have to keep adding more interfaces to lsb-functions :)
[15:17] <xnox> slangasek: ack.
[15:17] <slangasek> ah, it is me, isn't it?
[15:17] <slangasek> new rule, people have to paste as slow as I read :P
[15:18] <slangasek>  * partner work: centrifydc update published to precise, then pulled again
[15:18] <slangasek>  * working with the phonedations team for flipping the container
[15:18] <slangasek>  * catching us up on the SRU queue (python, unity in precise)
[15:18] <slangasek>   * had a meeting, got consensus that we want to try to repartition
[15:18] <slangasek> (done)
[15:18] <slangasek>   * working to support repartitioning on install so we can use the system partition; hard to make parted happy with the non-standard GPTs that come on some of these devices (grouper)
[15:18] <slangasek>   * testing the working container-flipped install on grouper (yay!), but noticing kernel output that shouldn't be there... talked to ogra, filed some meddlesome bugs on the kernel package, have been superseded by ogra's more correct fix
[15:18] <slangasek> stokachu:
[15:18] <ogra_> slangasek, its gone with the new kernel
[15:18] <ogra_> fbdev is ripped out again (as it should be)
[15:18] <slangasek> ogra_: great :)
[15:19] <slangasek> ogra_: so do I need to re-bootstrap to get that, or just flash the latest armel+grouper?
[15:19] <slangasek> stgraber:
[15:19] <ogra_> slangasek, since the archive is wonky today i cant build an image atm ... waiting for it to sort itself
[15:19] <slangasek> (sorry, not stokachu )
[15:19] <stgraber> Blueprint-related work:
[15:19] <stgraber>  - Image based updates (BLUEPRINT: foundations-1305-image-based-updates)
[15:19] <stgraber>   - Production server is online, just need to be populated now
[15:19] <stgraber>   - Added config file and config file parsing to the server code
[15:19] <stgraber>   - Added support for channels.json and index.json generation
[15:19] <stgraber>   - Added code to publish device keyring and images
[15:20] <slangasek> ogra_: wonky how?
[15:20] <stgraber>   - Updated the tests to keep us at 100% code coverage
[15:20] <stgraber>   - Had a couple of meetings on the subject
[15:20] <stgraber>   - Clarified some details in the specs
[15:20] <stgraber> Other work:
[15:20] <ogra_> slangasek, signon-ui issues
[15:20] <slangasek> the archive is not supposed to be wonky ever
[15:20] <stgraber>  - Ubuntu touch
[15:20] <stgraber>   - Spent a day or so implementing a working prototype of the loop-mounted system partition design.
[15:20] <stgraber>   - Some more discussions on partitioning and containers
[15:20] <stgraber>  - LXC
[15:20] <stgraber>   - Usual code reviews
[15:20] <stgraber>  - Patch pilot on Monday
[15:20] <stgraber>  - Processed a bunch of ~ubuntu-archive bugs
[15:20] <stgraber>  
[15:20] <stgraber> TODO:
[15:20] <stgraber>  - TODAY: Test my loop-mounted setup on grouper (nexus7)
[15:20] <stgraber>  - TODAY: Write some internal wiki documentation of the key infrastructure for system-image
[15:20] <stgraber>  - TODAY: File an RT to get the new keys and keyrings generated
[15:20] <cjwatson> slangasek: proposed-migration doesn't consider component mismatches (and it would be really hard to make it do so)
[15:20] <stgraber>  - THIS WEEK: Update livefs infrastructure to generate .tar.xz files for the touch rootfs (probably not published to cdimage.ubuntu.com though but only on system-image.ubuntu.com)
[15:20] <xnox> slangasek: components-mismatched wonky.
[15:20] <stgraber>  - THIS WEEK: Finish self-rebuilds feature implementation on nusakan
[15:20] <stgraber>  - Integrate the system-image module with cdimage to publish updates to the daily channel as they appear
[15:20] <stgraber>  - Write some tools for manual actions on system-image (manage channels, manage keyrings, manually publish updates, ...)
[15:20] <stgraber>  - Process some pending merges (ifupdown and resolvconf)
[15:20] <stgraber>  
[15:20] <stgraber> I won't be working on Monday (24th of June) as it's a public holiday here (but may still make it to the release call and TB meeting).
[15:21] <stgraber>  
[15:21] <slangasek> cjwatson, xnox: ah, right - sigh
[15:21] <stgraber> (DONE)
[15:21] <barry> ubuntu: LP: #1094218, LP: #1167177, LP: #1191979
[15:21] <xnox> slangasek: blame yet another copy of webkit in the archive ;-)
[15:21] <barry> also: fixing problems with emacs in both the archive and my personal settings
[15:21] <barry> image based upgrades: logging and testing against the real server. various keyring fixes. inaugural weekly ghangout. bug filing and housekeeping.  LP: #1191141, LP: #1191885, LP: #1191982 (still unresolved).  todo: LP: #1191150
[15:21] <barry> ☮
[15:21] <slangasek> that's been burning us rather more than I like - I realize proposed-mismatches shouldn't be trying to deal with c-m, but do we need more proactive c-m handling somewhere?
[15:22] <stokachu> barry: just let it rewrite itself until it is fixed
[15:22] <slangasek> I mean, we already get the emails
[15:22] <barry> stokachu: :)
[15:23] <slangasek> "ghangout" - what a lovely gutteral consonant
[15:23] <cjwatson> slangasek: from my point of view as an archive admin the problem is that doing anything about it in reasonable bulk requires going through tons of MIR paperwork for packages I know nothing in particular about
[15:23]  * barry wonders if that's g-as-in-gif or g-as-in-gif
[15:24] <cjwatson> ghangout> that's clearly a https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voiced_velar_fricative
[15:24] <slangasek> right :)
[15:26] <cjwatson> slangasek: so I think it has to be pushed to uploaders more, somehow - I know some of them are due to syncs but certainly far from all
[15:26] <doko> barry, thanks for the python sru's
[15:26] <slangasek> cjwatson: is an adjustment to the MIR process needed?  should c-m be linkified to appropriate bug searches?
[15:26] <barry> doko: np!
[15:26] <cjwatson> it is linkified
[15:26] <cjwatson> I mean, if the bug exists you get a link
[15:26] <slangasek> cjwatson: where?
[15:26] <slangasek> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/component-mismatches.txt is not html :)
[15:26] <cjwatson> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/component-mismatches.txt  grep for MIR:
[15:26] <cjwatson> OK, "link"
[15:26] <cjwatson> Or http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/component-mismatches.svg has clickable links
[15:27] <cjwatson> And indeed clickable bug searches
[15:27] <cjwatson> s/bug searches/filebug links/
[15:27] <slangasek> but only searches open MIRs
[15:27] <ogra_> shouldnt it probably just mail the uploader in parallel to the ML =
[15:27] <ogra_> ?
[15:27] <cjwatson> slangasek: Right, not sure what else it should do
[15:27] <slangasek> so if someone has promoted it in -proposed and the bug has been closed, the search won't find it - is that one of the problems here or not?
[15:27] <cjwatson> Also, when I try to act upon this sort of thing, I get the kinds of response times in https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ruby-json/+bug/1178274
[15:28] <cjwatson> slangasek: Oh, it's true that happens from time to time but I don't think it's a particularly large part of the problem
[15:28] <slangasek> ok
[15:29] <slangasek> cjwatson: maybe we should chat after so I can understand exactly where the bottleneck is
[15:29] <cjwatson> How about I put this on the agenda for next month's release eng sprint?
[15:29] <slangasek> ah, sounds good
[15:30] <slangasek> [TOPIC] Bugs
[15:30] <cjwatson> I think doing anything about it will be a chunk of (worthwhile) work no matter what
[15:30] <slangasek> right
[15:31] <slangasek> bdmurray: anything you want to highlight this week?
[15:31] <bdmurray> slangasek: nope
[15:31] <slangasek> ok
[15:32] <slangasek> [TOPIC] Meeting format
[15:32] <slangasek> so I have a topic to discuss this week :)
[15:32] <slangasek> I've chatted a bit with cjwatson about this already, and we wanted to get feedback from the rest of the team about the layout of this meeting itself
[15:33] <slangasek> currently, the bug triaging seems to be happening efficiently outside the meetings, and we rarely have other topics brought up for discussion besides the lightning round
[15:33] <slangasek> it seems like if all we were doing was weekly status reports, we could do that by email just as well
[15:33] <slangasek> but I like us having the weekly real-time meeting
[15:34] <slangasek> do you guys have thoughts on how we could make it more useful?
[15:34] <stokachu> are the weekly status report by email public?
[15:34] <slangasek> they could be published in a wiki page instead of by email
[15:34] <cjwatson> We don't really have a suitable public list, but ... that
[15:34] <barry> as long as we do it. :)
[15:35] <stokachu> i already do a weekly status report for my group but of course some couldnt be public
[15:35] <cjwatson> a real-time meeting is a pretty good way to ensure we actually do it
[15:35] <cjwatson> stokachu: as public as this meeting; but of course private-platfound is available if need be
[15:35] <slangasek> yeah... I'm not keen on the idea of dropping the meeting and doing status in the wiki, because I know people will get neck-deep in work and not get around to sending them in on time ;)
[15:35] <barry> if we do it enough ahead of the public meeting, then we can use this time to dive a little deeper into one or two topics.
[15:35] <cjwatson> however I think slangasek was talking about e-mailed status reports as one possibility, not necessarily as a done deal
[15:36] <slangasek> barry: I think the current scheduled meetings (1h IRC, + 1/2h mumble) allow plenty of time to dive deep on a topic... if we have topics we want to discuss :)
[15:36] <stokachu> i do like the real time meetings to get ack's on bugs needing attention
[15:37] <cjwatson> I think it's helpful to have some way where those of us who aren't involved in e.g. whole-image updates can see what's happening there, and perhaps rotating through various topics at greater length would provide some similar usefulness
[15:37] <stgraber> I think there's value in having it on IRC if only because it's easier to discuss specific points of somebody else's work than by replying to a bunch of e-mails or commenting on a wiki page. Also it's nice being able to quickly highlight someone from another team and have their feedback immediately.
[15:37] <cjwatson> OTOH I kind of don't want to make people prepare presentations all the time
[15:37] <doko> hmm, I think we had status reports by email before, but did change it to online reports
[15:37] <cjwatson> Right, it was hard to get them done on time
[15:37] <cjwatson> Or at all :)
[15:38] <cjwatson> OTOH turning up to press the paste button isn't necessarily a perfect use of time
[15:38] <doko> I like the current way better (if the reports don't get excessive, hint, hint ...)
[15:38] <barry> the problem i see with the current format is that things scroll by so quickly, it's hard to keep up and further, to have a conversation about specific points (e.g. in the middle of other people's status)
[15:38] <cjwatson> Yeah, I have difficulty with that too
[15:39] <stokachu> why not use etherpad or something?
[15:39] <barry> as evidenced by slangasek's comment earlier :)
[15:39] <cjwatson> I do try to read them - but it can be a bit TMI
[15:39] <stokachu> has chat and everyone can log their status
[15:39] <cjwatson> oh god oh god etherpad *PTSD*
[15:39] <stokachu> LOL
[15:39] <cjwatson> worst UI on the planet
[15:39] <stokachu> or gobby?
[15:39] <slangasek> well, I know it's perhaps not considered good IRC meeting etiquette, but from my POV it's far preferable for people to talk about things as they come up in status reports, even if it slows the meeting down
[15:40] <xnox> just to complete the flamewar: google wave and google docs.
[15:40] <stokachu> xnox: hah
[15:40] <slangasek> but yes, being able to have reports side-by-side with the IRC discussion might be better
[15:40] <cjwatson> the problem with those is that they're either awfully ephemeral (gobby - in theory logs/saves, but in practice loses things all the time) or terrible UI from hell (etherpad)
[15:40] <slangasek> again, the challenge is getting everything into the wiki ahead of time
[15:41] <cjwatson> I actually don't regard the current status report format as a particular problem, but it does feel that we have settled into a local minimum of mostly doing *only* the lightning round
[15:41] <slangasek> I know half the team is furiously finishing their reports *during the meeting*, that wouldn't work if they had to be in the wiki at the start of the meeting ;)
[15:41] <slangasek> xnox: this is not the wave you're looking for
[15:41] <stokachu> true i have last minute bugs coming up just before the meetings
[15:41] <slangasek> xnox: oh wait, YOU HAVEN'T SEEN THAT MOVIE
[15:41] <cjwatson> And it rather feels as though there should be additional uses for a weekly sync point
[15:41]  * xnox =(
[15:42] <slangasek> so to be clear, I'm strongly in favor of keeping a weekly real-time sync point
[15:42] <ogra_> slangasek, what ?!?! how did he get the job without that
[15:43] <slangasek> I would just like it to be more dynamic
[15:43] <slangasek> ogra_: we interviewed him based on skills instead? :)
[15:43] <stokachu> is there no team management software that we could use
[15:43] <stokachu> like basecamp or something
[15:43] <barry> slangasek: do you find the weekly meetings to be useful for you as a manager to know what we're up to?
[15:43] <slangasek> wtf, I just read "tea management" and did a double take
[15:43] <xnox> slangasek: my personalised google search results bring up only a song by Fall Out Boy, which I'm sure is not the reference you made.
[15:44] <stokachu> haha
[15:44] <ogra_> lol
[15:44] <slangasek> barry: yes - but if it's *just* that, it could all be handled by emailed/wikied status reports, or covered in 1:1s or whatever
[15:45] <slangasek> barry: I'm more interested in making sure the team is getting something out of the meetings collectively - i.e., surfacing from their own underground silos once a week to talk with their peers
[15:45] <cjwatson> it's useful for me too FWIW; I don't routinely have 1:1s but it's helpful to have a general awareness of what everyone's doing
[15:45]  * xnox ponders if it would make any sence to bring together kernel/phonedations/foundations to talk together.
[15:45] <slangasek> stokachu: I don't think different software solves the problem that's bothering me :)
[15:45] <barry> slangasek: definitely
[15:45] <ScottK> Personally, I find the IRC discussion interesting and sometimes, because it's on IRC, I'll have something to contribute.
[15:45] <stokachu> ah ok
[15:46] <slangasek> ScottK: right, having it open to the rest of the community is also a concern of mine
[15:46] <cjwatson> yeah, I think we would lose something important if we moved into some silo or other
[15:46] <slangasek> so, strawman time
[15:47] <slangasek> how about if we continue with the existing format, but we pick one topic a week to go into more depth on?
[15:47] <stgraber> +1
[15:47] <slangasek> and I'll announce the topics within the team the night before, so the people working on the topic know they should be ready (but not needing to prepare a presentation per se)
[15:48] <cjwatson> I think perhaps a day or two's warning would be better
[15:48] <cjwatson> just in case there's something else going on on Wednesday morning
[15:48] <bdmurray> slangasek: being in the same tz as you I'd like some more time ;-)
[15:48] <slangasek> and at any time, if someone has a problem they're struggling with that they would like the team's eyeballs on, they can pre-empt
[15:48] <cjwatson> but that's just a refinement
[15:48] <slangasek> cjwatson, bdmurray: hmm, I'm wary that giving more time will lead people to be inclined to over-prepare?
[15:49] <cjwatson> I suppose it's a balance between overpreparation and panic
[15:49] <cjwatson> we could see how it works ...
[15:49] <cjwatson> does anyone feel this kind of thing would be bad?
[15:50] <barry> nope
[15:50]  * xnox is curious what we will discuss? Mir vs X ?
[15:50] <slangasek> xnox: well, I /could/ give folks an update on plymouth + Mir
[15:50] <ev> Scala vs Clojure
[15:50] <slangasek> because that's a thing we'll be working on in the near future
[15:51] <ev> give me time, I'll wear you down ;)
[15:51] <slangasek> xnox: or you could talk about the status of the android cross-toolchain work, or we could talk about the system image updates and have Q&A about that, or go deeper on the container flip architecture and the problems we're running into, or click packages, or...
[15:51] <xnox> ev: "Scala vs Clojure" - perfect name for the first audiobook monologue from you to be published on amazon audio books =)
[15:52] <slangasek> I think we have no shortage of topics where it would be useful to have more mind-melding^W cross-pollination
[15:52] <stokachu> "Why Lisp will rule the world"
[15:52] <xnox> s/will/didn't/
[15:52] <barry> slangasek: that would also make it more interesting for non-team members
[15:53] <stokachu> haha
[15:53] <cjwatson> xnox: I think it ought to be something directly related to things we're doing; while there is certainly a connection via Plymouth, I wasn't envisaging general discussion about the state of Ubuntu
[15:53] <barry> s/will/does/
[15:53] <barry> ev: FORTH
[15:53] <xnox> cjwatson: I see.
[15:53] <cjwatson> Basically what slangasek said by way of examples
[15:53] <ev> xnox: I'm going to save my dulcet tones for the audiobook version of The C++ Programming Language. Mostly so I can end every paragraph with "but wait, it gets worse."
[15:54]  * ev stops being a distraction
[15:54] <cjwatson> (If we happened to be doing it today I probably would have sanity-checks to ask for about click-package, for instance)
[15:54] <slangasek> if we feel after a while that we've exhausted our own topics (but that seems improbable), we could invite guest speakers from other teams
[15:54] <ev> barry: :D
[15:54] <cjwatson> ev: My roommate at university had his bookshelf organised from humour to horror
[15:54] <slangasek> ev: you should just do an audio book of "PHP: A Fractal of Bad Design" :)
[15:54] <cjwatson> ev: The right-hand-side went ..., Whit, The Wasp Factory, The C++ Programming Language
[15:54] <ev> lol!
[15:55] <ev> amazing all around
[15:56] <slangasek> ok, so it sounds like we have a rough consensus to add explicit discussion topics to the meeting
[15:56] <slangasek> and I've marked in my calendar to pick these topics the day before - hopefully striking the right overpreparing vs. panic balance :)
[15:57] <slangasek> frankly, I think if we're picking the right topics people are going to be able to talk about them extemporaneously
[15:57] <slangasek> because it's the stuff that you're already working on that's in your brain :)
[15:57] <cjwatson> Yeah, that's probably true
[15:57] <slangasek> sound good?
[15:57] <ev> yes
[15:57] <stokachu> +1
[15:57] <ScottK> And if not, the panic will be fun to watch.
[15:58] <slangasek> [TOPIC] AOB
[15:58] <slangasek> anything else? :)
[15:58] <barry> slangasek: "extemporaneously" is probably an acknowledgment of reality anyway :)  +1
[15:59] <slangasek> :D
[16:00] <slangasek> #endmeeting
[16:00] <meetingology> Meeting ended Wed Jun 19 16:00:14 2013 UTC.
[16:00] <meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-06-19-15.02.moin.txt
[16:00] <meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-06-19-15.02.html
[16:00] <slangasek> thanks, everyone!
[16:00] <ev> thanks!
[16:01] <stgraber> thanks!
[16:01] <barry> thanks!