[07:07] <diplo> Morning all
[08:24] <popey> Morning
[08:27] <JamesTait> Good morning all, happy Dump the Pump Day and happy World Refugee Day! :-)
[08:29] <Laney> dump the pump!?!?
[08:30] <mungbean> wonders if JamesTait does this manually or there's a web scarper for him
[08:31] <mungbean> s/ar/ra
[08:32] <dogmatic69> mysql workbench on 13.04 is a bit broken. http://i.imgur.com/QS6pdxd.png
[08:32] <JamesTait> mungbean, I really should script it, but no, I just check the two web pages myself and pick one that looks interesting.
[08:32] <dogmatic69> any idea what is going on there?
[08:32] <dogmatic69> I have tried a few versions now and all doing the same.
[08:32] <mungbean> obligatory xkcd about scripts
[08:51] <dwatkins> this one, mungbean? http://xkcd.com/974/
[08:56] <diplo> Learning bzr at the mo, so basically I've created a repo on my local PC using init-repo called python-scripts/trunk
[08:57] <diplo> Decided I want to have a main server that's always on in headoffice to host
[08:57] <diplo> I've installed bzr on there, want to push my initial commits from my local PC to there
[08:58] <diplo> Do I need to init a repo on the remote box, or bzr clone from the remote box from my repo ?
[09:18] <brobostigon> good morning everyone,
[09:59] <davmor2> Morning all
[10:12] <czajkowski> davmor2: *pokes*
[10:14] <davmor2> czajkowski: I got something here for you...../me digs around in his pocket for bit..................................../me produces a  PROD! from his pocket
[10:15] <Gary> a prod, umm sure
[10:15]  * Gary prods davmor2 
[10:15] <Gary> giggity
[10:39] <MartijnVdS> cattle prod?
[10:50] <TheOpenSourcerer> Who said "Cattle Prod"? https://twitter.com/opensourcerer/status/347667649204994048/photo/1
[11:14] <davmor2> MartijnVdS: no I'm not that cruel, well not currently anyway, I'll wait till she really annoys me for that :)
[12:20] <mungbean> its funny to see people from this irc channel commenting on reddit with the same names
[12:20] <mungbean> seems out of place
[12:20] <popey> hah
[12:22] <mungbean> notice BigRedS_  and directhex there
[12:22] <MartijnVdS> mungbean: Reddit names tend to be more.. vulgar
[12:23] <mungbean> potato_in_my_anus
[12:23] <MartijnVdS> mungbean: that's you?
[12:23] <mungbean> no lol
[12:23] <directhex> why's it odd? directhex is my identity on the webs.
[12:24] <mungbean> dunno why, i expect reddit to be more anonymous
[12:24] <MartijnVdS> directhex: but it's not vulgar and/or offensive!
[12:24] <MartijnVdS> mungbean: "back in the day" reddit was just like any other site you need a username for..
[12:24] <mungbean> suddenly by associating it with a known nom-de-plume gives it connections to other sites
[12:25]  * MartijnVdS dusts off his "5 year club" trophy
[12:25] <MartijnVdS> mungbean: I think I know your reddit username though ;)
[12:25] <mungbean> i have a lot
[12:25] <mungbean> i do have one connected with this irc , yes
[12:26] <mungbean> (theyreby negating my argument) but i have 3 others,
[12:26] <MartijnVdS> mungbean: you're cationbot! :)
[12:26] <MartijnVdS> (not the lack of 'p')
[12:27] <mungbean> seems to have only UPPERCASE letters
[12:28] <directhex> mungbean, i never said it was my *only* reddit account
[12:28] <directhex> mungbean, there's also the one i use for posting naked pictures...
[12:28] <mungbean> of course, we all have that
[12:28] <popey> o/
[12:28] <popey> I don't
[12:28] <mungbean> *doesn't either
[12:28] <directhex> you post naked under yoiur main popey account? :o
[12:29] <popey> popeydc
[12:30] <mungbean> dc stands for?
[12:30] <popey> dot com
[12:30] <popey> its what i use when popey is unavailable
[12:31] <popey> my nickname was in fact popey dot com before it was popey, oddly
[12:32] <Gary> popey, where are these pictures you tempt me with?
[12:32] <mungbean> eww
[12:33] <directhex> lol
[12:34] <mungbean> i haven't been out in the garden for a couple of weekends and the grass is > 3ft high
[12:34] <dwatkins> popey: broken link on there to http://uk.linkedin.com/in/popey
[12:39] <mungbean> changed some cleartype settings on my laptop and can't reverse them or reset to defaults :(
[12:39] <mungbean> turning off is terrible too
[12:40] <popey> dwatkins: where?
[12:42] <dwatkins> popey: IT professional, iirc
[12:42] <popey> dwatkins: no, i mean where is the link?
[12:42] <dwatkins> oh, on your homepage eluded to above
[12:42] <dwatkins> the one with the dictionary-like display
[12:43] <popey> ah
[12:43] <popey> ta
[12:43] <dwatkins> welcome :)
[12:43] <popey> \o/ fixed
[12:44] <dwatkins> I like your fix, too.
[12:44] <popey> ☻
[12:45] <dwatkins> not sure if unicode circle or some other character
[12:45] <popey> smiley
[12:46] <dwatkins> I blame iTerm2 for getting it wrong.
[12:46] <mungbean> WFM
[12:46] <dwatkins> ...or possibly OS X
[12:49] <shauno> it works here, it just looks like a solid dot at most sensible sizes
[12:50] <MartijnVdS> 😂
[12:51] <shauno> ☺ seems to work better because it has an empty fill instead of a solid fill
[12:51] <popey> the woman behind the ouya has freaky coloured eyes
[12:52] <dwatkins> interesting, if I copy & paste the character into TextWrangler, it displays correctly as a face.
[12:52]  * dwatkins unhibernates his Ubuntu vm
[12:53] <shauno> WFM in iterm, just the features are barely perceivable
[12:53] <popey> 40 quid for another ouya controller
[12:53] <mungbean> how much is the device
[12:53] <mungbean> 99£?
[12:53] <MartijnVdS> popey: PS3 controllers are €60 here
[12:54] <MartijnVdS> 😒
[12:54] <dwatkins> popey's original smiley looks fine from Ubuntu terminal/ssh/irssi, of course
[12:55] <shauno> http://cl.ly/image/122s3M1V0Y1s   it's there, it's just useless at that size :(
[12:55] <mungbean> i have small text in this sesh
[12:56] <mungbean> ctrl - 2 or 3 times from a normal terminal for irc
[12:57] <popey> yes mungbean
[12:57] <popey> http://www.game.co.uk/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/HubArticleView?hubId=214785&articleId=214786&storeId=10151
[12:57] <popey> 99 in game
[12:57] <popey> inc one controller
[12:57] <mungbean> oh, they sell them in shiops?
[12:57] <mungbean> if i had a proper telly i would get one
[12:57] <popey> starts selling next week
[12:58] <mungbean> only scart in mine
[12:58] <popey> so I hear
[12:58] <mungbean> cool
[12:59] <mungbean> at the casual end of gaming
[12:59] <mungbean> what video out , only hdmi?
[13:00] <popey> yes
[13:00] <popey> not a great selection of launch titles
[13:01] <popey> the fact that it runs N64 emulator is nice though ☻
[13:04] <mungbean> so it can run standard android market games?
[13:04] <mungbean> and if i've bought them on my tablet already?
[13:04] <popey> not that i can see so far
[13:05] <popey> unless you get the apk and "side load" (ick)
[13:05] <mungbean> no to 1) or 2)?
[13:05] <mungbean> or both :(
[13:05] <popey> same question phrased differently really
[13:05] <popey> however, it has a micro-usb port
[13:05]  * popey looks for a cable and adb
[13:05] <dwatkins> I hate the phrase "side load", but I hear it all the time in relation to iOS
[13:05] <popey> i hate the phrase
[13:06] <BigRedS_> what is side loading? It was all over the comments for an app I was looking at the other day
[13:06] <mungbean> can you browse the regular android market from ouya and install apps?
[13:06] <dwatkins> http://www.itworld.com/personal-tech/358540/how-side-load-apps-ouya-console for anyone not already on this page
[13:06] <popey> no
[13:06] <mungbean> BigRedS_: popping the apk onto the device , bypassing app store
[13:07] <mungbean> liek what you do if you wanted to run asus supernote on a non asus tablet
[13:07] <ali1234> is this ouya?
[13:07] <popey> yes
[13:07] <mungbean> has anyone released ouyabunu?
[13:07] <ali1234> does it run the humble bundle android stuff?
[13:07] <popey> hah
[13:07] <mungbean> ouyabuntu
[13:08] <mgdm> that reads like you've just stubbed your toe
[13:08] <ali1234> ubuntu port should be pretty easy with libhybris
[13:09] <popey> the standard android settings screen is somewhat limited
[13:09] <popey> can't even turn on usb debug it seems
[13:09] <ali1234> wat
[13:09] <ali1234> how do you develop games for it then?
[13:09] <popey> oh, no
[13:09] <popey> i didnt scroll far enough ☻
[13:10] <Gary> popey, when are you going to release a version of ubuntuphone for the mako? :p
[13:10] <popey> its already out Gary
[13:10] <Gary> O_O  isitwootwhereiwantit
[13:10] <popey> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Install#Supported_devices_and_codenames
[13:10] <popey> the preview anyway
[13:10] <popey> hmm, how do you make "adb devices" show it?
[13:11] <popey> its in about device, then tap the jellybean isnt it?
[13:11] <BigRedS_> mungbean: oh. The tone of the comments made it sound like something rather more complex than that. Ta!
[13:11] <ali1234> make sure to accept the key
[13:11] <ali1234> tapping the versions enables developer mode which enables usb debugging etc
[13:11] <Gary> oh balls, I need a second mako
[13:11] <ali1234> a few of the versions unlock different things but i forgot which one does what
[13:12] <ali1234> just keep tapping everything in that menu
[13:12] <popey> hmm
[13:13] <popey> doesn't seem to do it the same as on my nexus devices
[13:13] <ali1234> well probably not
[13:13] <ali1234> just wait for someone to make a custom firmware for it?
[13:15] <Azelphur> Ended up buying that HP Microserver I mentioned yesterday :)
[13:15] <ali1234> http://d3nevzfk7ii3be.cloudfront.net/igi/F2OfDQWwAuJGNtWh.huge
[13:15] <ali1234> i bet J3 is a serial debug port
[13:15] <Azelphur> by the time you add up the cashback, selling the internal HDD/RAM, it almost costs nothing
[13:15] <popey> http://forums.ouya.tv/discussion/1380/recovery-mode
[13:15] <popey> lengthy discussion about it
[13:16] <ali1234> yeah confirmed
[13:16] <ali1234> RX doesn't work? there will be an empty SMT pad nearby where you solder in a 0 ohm resistor
[13:17] <popey> i haven't opened it up
[13:17] <popey> interesting that most of the games that are at launch are made with the free version of unity, rather than the paid version
[13:18] <ali1234> where can i buy one for bitcoins?
[13:18] <popey> wonder if there is a correlation between that and the low quality of tha games
[13:18] <ali1234> lol
[13:18] <ali1234> the games are low quality?
[13:18] <ali1234> but can't you play any android game on it?
[13:19] <ali1234> like GTA 3?
[13:19] <popey> maybe, i see no way to install that
[13:19] <popey> it has its own storefront, not play store
[13:20] <popey> and the device doesn't "know" my google account
[13:20] <ali1234> what is the deal with the free version of unity? what's the licensing on that?
[13:20] <popey> most of the games seem modded for ouya, they mention ouya buttons or show a picture of the controller
[13:20] <ali1234> or, why does anyone pay for it if there is a free verion?
[13:20] <popey> there's more features in the pay one
[13:20] <popey> there's a comparison on their site
[13:20] <ali1234> i see
[13:21] <popey> also, the free one shows a splash screen, which gives it away they used the free one
[13:21] <ali1234> yeah
[13:21] <ali1234> are these third party games then
[13:21] <popey> yes
[13:21] <popey> they're almost all limited
[13:21] <popey> time limited or number of runs limited
[13:21] <popey> so you have to pay to continue to play
[13:21] <ali1234> lol
[13:22] <ali1234> but they're not very good anyway?
[13:22] <popey> most, yeah
[13:22] <popey> a few are fun
[13:22] <popey> there's some usual ones like canabalt
[13:23] <popey> ..which only lets you play 5 times
[13:25] <dwatkins> I think I have that on pretty much every device I own.
[13:25] <popey> ahh, 5 goes per day
[13:25] <popey> it told me to upgrade or come back tomorrow
[13:25] <dwatkins> does it do Netflix, Lovefilm or anything similar, though?
[13:26] <popey> not yet
[13:26] <popey> well, not figured out how yet
[13:27] <dwatkins> well, if it officially does Netflix (which shouldn't be difficult, assuming Netflix allow this) that will be a major selling point
[13:27] <mungbean> just tried that game
[13:27] <mungbean> killed my eyes
[13:27] <ali1234> that's the building jumping game right?
[13:27] <mungbean> yes
[13:27] <mungbean> its like we've gone back to 1984
[13:27] <mungbean> with mars lander on acron electron
[13:28] <ali1234> i had that game
[13:28] <ali1234> it was really hard
[13:28] <dwatkins> mungbean: I still have a working BBC Micro ;)
[13:28] <dwatkins> (in fact, I have two, one's a B+)
[13:28] <mgdm> \o/
[13:29] <popey> i really like that game
[13:29] <ali1234> ah, the starter pack
[13:29] <mgdm> I know someone who had one with a dead motherboard, she was busy building a gizmo to convert the original keyboard to PS/2 so she could put an Atom board inside it
[13:29] <mgdm> wonder if she finished it
[13:29] <popey> although I have paid for it at least twice I think
[13:29] <popey> so ruluctant to pay again on ouya
[13:29] <ali1234> well sideload the HiB app then?
[13:29] <dwatkins> I'm waiting for the DataCentre from RetroClinic to be available again so I can start using the B+
[13:29] <dwatkins> http://www.retroclinic.com/acorn/datacentre/datacentre.htm
[13:30] <mungbean> i have a acorn a3000 and electron somewhere
[13:30] <popey> yeah, should do
[13:30] <ali1234> you know what HiB reminds me of
[13:30] <mungbean> MiB?
[13:30] <mungbean> play it again sam?
[13:30] <ali1234> you know when they used to send those book club leaflets to schools every few months
[13:30] <mungbean> chip club
[13:30] <popey> http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=ChX5s4Qy3Kw
[13:31] <popey> pc games on ouya via remote control
[13:31] <mgdm> ali1234: heh, yes
[13:31] <ali1234> and the books rotated each time, but then they had the most popular old ones on the back
[13:31] <ali1234> so if you missed it you could get it still
[13:32] <ali1234> i got those type-in game books from that
[13:32] <ali1234> never managed to type in the whole game
[13:32] <mungbean> typed them in regularly from electron user
[13:32] <mungbean> my sister reading and me typing
[13:33] <ali1234> these were loooooong
[13:33] <mungbean> the 6502 assembler ones were fun
[13:33] <ali1234> and my nan never understood you have to read exactly what it says like capital letters and punctuation
[13:33] <ali1234> lol
[13:33] <mungbean> debugging typos took 2x longer than the first pass of typing
[13:34] <mungbean> i never had them working perfectly
[13:34] <mungbean> ok its drawn the grand prix circuit but where are the cars
[13:34] <mungbean> i learned a lot about coding from that
[13:36] <popey> i remember typing in something from a CPC magazine. It said there was a BASIC compiler inside the ROM and you just needed some machine code to bootstrap it, and make your BASIC run faster as machine code..
[13:36] <popey> typed it all in, saved to tape, loaded it, ran it, it asked for a BASIC thing to compile, then spat out a binary on tape
[13:36] <popey> took ages
[13:36] <popey> then when you load the resulting machine code you get..
[13:36] <popey> "APRIL FOOL!"
[13:36] <mungbean> argh
[13:37] <mungbean> april fools shold never be more than 10 lines
[13:37] <dwatkins> lol
[13:37] <mgdm> popey: hah! gits
[13:37] <mungbean> i remember the acron user one was getting colour on your b/w TV
[13:37] <popey> hah
[13:37] <popey> sinclair user did one of them for the zx81 too
[13:37] <mungbean> i was about 8, told my dad, he was sceptical
[13:38] <mungbean> learned a lesson that day
[13:38] <mungbean> typed it out, dad was right
[13:39] <mgdm> popey: got a minute for a PM?
[13:42] <ali1234> does anyone remember a children's book series about pirates?
[13:43] <mungbean> hmm
[13:43] <popey> mgdm: of course
[13:43] <ali1234> there was probably about 20-30 books, each one fairly short, like 20 pages
[13:43] <mgdm> popey: OK - 2 mins
[13:43] <mungbean> not captain pugwash?
[13:43] <ali1234> no.
[13:43] <ali1234> and not the one where the kid enters a painting of a pirate ship
[13:43] <mungbean> they had a lot of books, 32pages
[13:44] <ali1234> this was a continuing story across all the books
[13:44] <ali1234> each one ended on a cliff hanger
[13:45] <popey> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Ouya_software
[13:45] <ali1234> but the catch is they were graded for reading level
[13:45] <popey> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Griffin_Pirate_Stories
[13:45] <ali1234> YES
[13:45] <popey> ☻
[13:45] <ali1234> that's it, nice one popey
[13:45] <popey> My google skills are strong.
[13:46] <ali1234> from the same person as roger red hat et al
[13:46] <popey> https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=pirate+children+book+1980
[13:46] <popey> ☻
[13:46] <ali1234> i suspected as much
[13:46] <popey> pics on ebay
[13:46] <popey> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/The-Stolen-Ship-Griffin-Pirate-Stories-1974-/390609437091?pt=Pre_School_Picture_Books&hash=item5af22301a3
[13:46] <popey> that looks familiar
[13:47] <ali1234> hmm i recognise the design of the title but not sure about that cover
[13:47] <ali1234> "The Breaking of the Chain" that sounds *really* familiar
[13:48] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raid_on_the_Medway ?
[13:48] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: we have lots of streets named after Michiel de Ruyter (who "broke the chain") ;)
[13:48] <ali1234> nah this was a literal chain that the pirate had to break... with a magic knife iirc
[13:48] <ali1234> but yeah obviously inspired by this event
[13:49] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: this was also a literal chain, blocking the harbor
[13:49] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: or the river, or whatever
[13:49] <ali1234> this was a chain that had chained him to somehting... like a rock on an island where he was stranded after the mean pirates stole his ship or somehting
[13:49] <MartijnVdS> ah
[13:50] <ali1234> but hey this was like 25 years ago... i could be totally misremembering
[13:51] <ali1234> "the griffin" also had a literal griffin in it ... on the cover even iirc
[13:51] <ali1234> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Griffin-Pirate-Stories-Breaking-McCullagh/dp/0560005520
[13:51] <ali1234> yup
[13:54] <ali1234> oh wow, the pirate books with the silver pirate ship are also by the same person
[13:54] <ali1234> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buccaneers_%28series%29
[13:55] <ali1234> pretty much every book i ever read in infant and primary school was written by this person. crazy
[14:05] <ali1234> http://thumbs2.ebaystatic.com/d/l225/m/mucjCI7zx7ooUSHjjgCzQiw.jpg dat griffin...
[14:09] <mungbean> bodes well for getting my colleagues to turn main lights off in here, as there's a couple of mac users
[14:09] <mungbean> strip lighting + mac = glare
[14:09] <mungbean> no lighting = relaxed mungbean
[14:20] <dwatkins> I don't switch on the lights in the morning in the office, as it's much nicer when it's a bit dark
[14:35] <shauno> I like doing that when I have early shifts.  letting sunrise happen on its own seems to hurt less than flooding the floor with fluorescent lights
[14:36] <dwatkins> sunrise is currently at about 5am here, though
[14:37] <shauno> heh, yeah, it doesn't work so well at the moment.  but it won't be long :/
[14:38] <dwatkins> I wish I lived nearer the equator sometimes, but then I look out the window and see the hills around here.
[14:38] <neuro> WHAT'S UP DUDES!
[14:39] <mgdm> THE SKY
[14:39] <dwatkins> Your capslock key certainly isn't ;)
[14:39] <neuro> \O/
[14:39] <neuro> it never really gets dark up here this time of year
[14:39] <neuro> i was out at midnight last night and there was still a tinge of blue in the sky
[14:39] <dwatkins> whereabouts are you, neuro?
[14:39] <neuro> sky starts getting light at about 3-3:30am
[14:40] <neuro> dwatkins: just NE of glasgow
[14:40] <dwatkins> I'm in Edinburgh
[14:40] <neuro> and it's proper daylight by 6ish
[14:40] <neuro> dusk doesn't really start happening until about 10pmish
[14:40] <dwatkins> most days I get woken by the sun at 5am
[14:40] <dwatkins> yeah, it's still warm untii then, too
[14:41] <neuro> my lounge and upstairs bedrooms are south facing
[14:41] <neuro> so you can see the light through the curtains by about 4am
[14:41] <neuro> well, i say south facing
[14:41] <neuro> more like SE-facing
[14:42] <neuro> and of course in six months it'll be equally mental
[14:42] <dwatkins> I'm considering putting solar panels on my bedroom window, or next to it
[14:42] <neuro> hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
[14:42] <neuro> *breathe*
[14:42] <neuro> hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
[14:42] <neuro> solar panels
[14:42] <neuro> in scotland
[14:42] <neuro> you're a funny guy :)
[14:43] <dwatkins> you've seen the weather we're having
[14:43] <dwatkins> it's superb
[14:43] <ali1234> it's raining here
[14:43] <neuro> yeah, we get this for like maybe 10-20 days
[14:43] <neuro> a year
[14:43] <dwatkins> I don't need much power for my phone, anyway
[14:43] <neuro> and in the winter when the sun is out, it's only out for about 15 minutes, then it smegs off again
[14:43] <dwatkins> I reckon a 20 Watt panel will charge a battery that'll charge at least one phone, if not more.
[14:44] <neuro> *rises* "oh hello everyone, blimey, bit parky today, innit, right, my work here is done, see you tomorrow" *sinks*
[14:44] <neuro> scumbag solar body
[14:44] <dwatkins> how dare it... oh wait, it's not the sun's fault
[14:44] <neuro> it is, you know
[14:45] <neuro> if it adjusted its gravitational field to permit our orbit to become perfectly circular ...
[14:45] <neuro> and gave us a wee poke to stabilise our rotation ...
[14:46] <neuro> mind you, if our rotational axis was straightened, in this country we'd be screwed
[14:46] <dwatkins> ...most of the animals would be confused
[14:46] <neuro> we'd end up getting charbroiled
[14:52] <neuro> 18 URLs active,  7436 URLs queued, 160507 URLs checked, runtime 1 hour, 5 minutes
[14:52] <neuro> 20 URLs active,  7447 URLs queued, 160612 URLs checked, runtime 1 hour, 5 minutes
[14:52] <neuro> scumbag linkchecker, where the queued URLs just keep goin' up
[15:58] <MartijnVdS> AlanBell: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_Network_Video_Interface_Forum
[15:58] <MartijnVdS> AlanBell: did you know about that one?
[16:00] <MartijnVdS> a standard to talk to ip cams \o/ :)
[16:05] <dwdorig> Ah, "Open" to anyone willing to shell out large sums of money.
[16:05] <MartijnVdS> still
[16:05] <MartijnVdS> multiple vendors using one standard beats having to implement each vendor's custom protocol
[16:06] <dwdorig> Only if you're allowed to implement that one standard...
[16:07] <MartijnVdS> you might have to reverse-engineer it, but (a) it's a web camera, how hard can it be (possibly h.264, too)
[16:07] <MartijnVdS> (b) it's what we've been doing to talk to network cams forever
[16:10] <MartijnVdS> dwdorig: also http://www.onvif.org/specs/DocMap-2.3.html
[16:10] <MartijnVdS> dwdorig: spex!
[16:14] <MartijnVdS> byzantine specs, but specs
[18:28] <twager> Anyone know if an ISP can read mails in a clients maler
[18:29] <twager> .........Mailer..
[18:29] <Azelphur> twager: whoever owns the mailserver can, yes
[18:29] <Azelphur> if you want safety, the only answer is PGP.
[18:30] <diddledan_> or S/MIME
[18:30] <diddledan_> the advantage of S/MIME is more clients support it
[18:31] <diddledan_> and there's a hierarchy of certificate authorities
[18:31] <Azelphur> S/MIME?
[18:31] <diddledan_> the downside is there's a hierarchy of certificate authorities
[18:31] <twager> Thanks for the info..
[18:31] <diddledan_> Azelphur, S/MIME uses a certificate issued by verisign or some such
[18:31] <Azelphur> I see
[18:32] <diddledan_> so it's less peer-to-peer
[18:33] <diddledan_> there have been extensions proposed for GPG-based S/MIME however, but I don't know whether that got standardised at all
[18:35] <diddledan_> the main issue with pgp/gpg is that it still hasn't become widespread - most clients feature it as an optional extra often developed by a third party
[18:45] <AlanBell> humans don't appear to want it
[18:47] <AlanBell> Lotus Notes had a completely integrated public key infrastructure, pretty seamless and solid. Most common request was to ditch the private keys and just have username/password logon and if encryption and signatures were the price to pay then fine
[18:48] <diddledan_> well fooey
[18:49] <AlanBell> I still see people describing a .jpg scan of a signature pasted on to a document as being a "digital signature"
[18:52] <diddledan_> well they're right twice, but still missing the point
[18:52] <diddledan_> it's both a signature and digital
[18:52] <diddledan_> but hardly a "digital signature"
[19:01] <MartijnVdS> With the previous version of Outlook, people kept asking why I sent "empty emails"
[19:01] <MartijnVdS> \o/ PGP/MIME
[19:02] <diddledan_> joy
[19:02] <MartijnVdS> diddledan_: I told them to fix their mail client, still sign my mail
[19:03] <diddledan_> unfortunately I don't have that luxury - I have to deal with governmental types, so I have to not use gpg
[19:03] <MartijnVdS> :(
[19:04] <directhex> Crusader Kings 2 is half off this weekend. I'd be surprised if it's not 75% off for one day between now and monday, though
[19:05] <directhex> it's a half off publisher sale, with game-specific 75% off 1-day sales
[19:05] <MartijnVdS> what kind of game is it?
[19:08] <directhex> i dunno, some strategy nonsense. that's pretty much all Paradox publishes
[19:10] <diddledan_> is susan boyle still recording?
[19:10] <MartijnVdS> diddledan_: probably, why?
[19:10] <MartijnVdS> diddledan_: need a birthday present for an ex?
[19:10] <diddledan_> (she just came on my randomiser)
[19:10] <diddledan_> lol
[19:20] <shauno> my roomba's stuck under my rack.  do I rescue it, or let it learn a lesson?
[19:22] <MartijnVdS> shauno: yes.
[19:25] <diddledan_> I really have too much rubbish on the floor to even consider an autonomous vacuum cleaner
[19:26] <shauno> that was actually my motivation. lil dude's training me
[19:27] <diddledan_> I have a path from here to the bathroom - that's all I need, right?
[19:28] <shauno> it helps if you can answer the door before the pizza dude figures he's got the wrong address
[19:28] <diddledan_> :-)
[19:28] <diddledan_> pizza dude
[19:28] <diddledan_> good idea
[19:28] <diddledan_> :-p
[19:29] <MartijnVdS> diddledan_: have you been featured on the "Hoarders" TV show? ;)
[19:29] <diddledan_> MartijnVdS, not that I'm aware, but they could easily hide in here without me knowing :-p
[19:30] <shauno> but if we do have any crazy inventors, I would suggest the next leap in autonomous housekeeping would be a robot that can track down cutlery and deliver them to the dishwasher
[19:31] <diddledan_> the laundrobot would be awesome, too
[19:31] <diddledan_> picks up random discarded clothing from wherever it landed
[19:31] <shauno> havint rescued socks from the roomba, I'm not sure I'd be an early-adopter on that one
[19:31] <diddledan_> lol
[20:36] <mungbean> someone do me a favour, go to www.google.co.uk while signed in to google
[20:36] <mungbean> type a word, e.g. arsenal
[20:36] <mungbean> look at url
[20:37] <mungbean> what's all that gubbins?
[20:41] <AlanBell> mungbean: same as it does on maps now
[20:42] <AlanBell> it updates the location to a url with all the information to retrieve the page you are on, bit odd
[20:42] <mungbean> its much longer via the webpage
[20:42] <mungbean> than via ctrl-k
[20:43] <mungbean> #sugexp=crnk_timediscountb&gs_rn=17&gs_ri=psy-ab
[20:43] <mungbean> etc
[20:44] <brobostigon> /win 1
[20:44] <mungbean> apparently a bearded lady is appearing on question time
[20:44] <popey> it's always done that for me
[20:45] <diddledan_> popey, the bearded lady?
[20:46] <popey> google
[20:46] <popey> url is always had guff in it
[20:48] <mungbean> LOL
[20:49] <mungbean> http://www.thatvideosite.com/v/9531/drunk-girl-ruins-wedding
[20:49] <mungbean> you know whats gonna happen
[20:49] <mungbean> but i still LOLled
[20:50] <mungbean> ah,,,scrap that...it was fake
[20:50] <mungbean> i'll never trust the internet again :(
[21:05] <popey> directhex: is monogame used much in commercial games?
[21:06] <directhex> popey, pretty much any XNA game nowadays is really using monogame.
[21:07] <directhex> you can't publish xna games to the win8 app store, but you can publish monogame games, as an example
[21:07] <directhex> also playstation vita/ps4 games
[23:07] <dogmatic69> Anyone seen apps that show all text like blocks □□□□□□ (13.04)
[23:07] <dogmatic69> I have mysql workbench doing this and could really do with it working properly :(
[23:10] <daftykins> sounds like character set / locale issues
[23:10] <dogmatic69> so far this is the only one I had a problem with
[23:10] <dogmatic69> tried various versions
[23:11] <dogmatic69> I don't know anything about locale settings being English and all :D
[23:11] <dogmatic69> never used them
[23:11] <dogmatic69> its only parts of it...
[23:12] <dogmatic69> the important parts though.. menus are displaying ok
[23:12] <daftykins> i don't know the program nor use desktop ubuntu sadly
[23:13] <daftykins> it's a GUI program i take it?
[23:13] <dogmatic69> yes
[23:14] <dogmatic69> http://i.imgur.com/ChWfBiC.png
[23:14] <dogmatic69> that is the problem
[23:14] <dogmatic69> you can see the lower panel has the correct text, along with the pop up thing
[23:15] <daftykins> wowzer!
[23:15] <daftykins> perhaps it could even be a missing font
[23:16] <daftykins> although weird that the program wouldn't be consistent
[23:16] <dogmatic69> maybe. I did try change all the fonts in the config to helvetica or whatever
[23:16] <daftykins> and that didn't change a thing - or?
[23:16] <dogmatic69> did nothing
[23:16] <daftykins> i take it helvetica is present? :D
[23:18] <daftykins> was your 13.04 install an upgrade or clean?
[23:18] <dogmatic69> clean
[23:25] <daftykins> what happens if you open a terminal and run "locale | pastebinit" ?
[23:25] <dogmatic69> http://paste.ubuntu.com/5785291/
[23:25] <daftykins> alright well at least everythings in English XD
[23:25] <dogmatic69> hehe
[23:25] <daftykins> i wonder if it's worth running this sql workbench from a terminal to see if it gives away any errors?
[23:25] <daftykins> though tbh it's probably fair to say i'm too inexperienced for this one and it might be worth just trying in the more active #ubuntu main channel
[23:25] <dogmatic69> Fontconfig warning: "/etc/fonts/conf.d/50-user.conf", line 9: reading configurations from ~/.fonts.conf is deprecated.
[23:25] <dogmatic69> interesting...?
[23:25] <daftykins> does seem a bit, yeah
[23:25] <dogmatic69> that line it references
[23:25] <dogmatic69> <include ignore_missing="yes" deprecated="yes">~/.fonts.conf</include>
[23:25] <daftykins> how did you install sql workbench?
[23:25] <dogmatic69> apt-get install and download
[23:25] <dogmatic69> various versions, all the same
[23:25] <dogmatic69> it was working on 12.04 before I upgraded
[23:25] <dogmatic69> ha
[23:25] <dogmatic69> fixed it
[23:26] <daftykins> mm?
[23:26] <dogmatic69> this is the file of the error
[23:26] <dogmatic69> http://bin.cakephp.org/view/182432270
[23:26] <daftykins> ooh how handy
[23:26] <dogmatic69> I bought the future forward a bit...
[23:26] <daftykins> so you edited the path? or that's a replacement?
[23:27] <dogmatic69> deleted below the comment
[23:27] <dogmatic69> those two lines
[23:27] <daftykins> ah
[23:27] <dogmatic69> I wonder what else uses that stuff
[23:27] <daftykins> hrmm, it might be handy if you could find someone to contact about that issue
[23:28] <dogmatic69> ubuntu-bug ...
[23:29] <daftykins> no idea ^_^
[23:33] <dogmatic69> daftykins: thanks for pointing me in the right direction
[23:34] <daftykins> my pleasure ^_^
[23:34] <daftykins> not bad considering XD