TheOpenSourcererMeauning all07:14
dwatkinsmoin moin07:15
knightwisehey dwatkins07:29
knightwisehey esther07:57
estherhi knightwise07:58
knightwisehey esther , how are you this fine monday morning (Sighs and rubs sleep from eyes)07:59
brobostigongood morning everyone,08:03
MooDoomorning all08:09
diploMorning all08:16
MooDoomorning diplo08:17
mungbeanhmm. the problem with chrome having separate processes is that they all stay under the radar in "top"08:19
BigRedS_playing the benchmarks :)08:22
mungbeanused to regularly haev 50+ tabs open on a 2gb machine08:23
mungbeannow i run out of ram on a 4gb one :(08:23
bigcalmGood morning peeps :)08:24
JamesTaitGood morning all, happy Midsummer Day! :)08:40
MooDoomorning JamesTait08:42
bigcalmMorning JamesTait, wasn't that at the weekend?08:43
popeyi thought that, but checked wikipedia before typing ㋛08:44
bigcalmWho needs facts when you have conviction?08:44
JamesTaitMooDoo, bigcalm, o/08:47
JamesTaitbigcalm, popey, I knew I should have gone with happy Fairy Day!08:48
=== BigRedS_ is now known as BigRedS
DJonesHmh, Midsummer day and it seems to be the coldest day of the month so far08:55
DJonesTypicla british weather08:55
DJonesAh, I know the reason, Wimbledon starts today08:55
bigcalmWimbledon? Oh fudge08:59
bigcalmThat means it's my birthday soon08:59
popeynicely done08:59
popeynext you'll "accidentally" post your amazon wishlist ㋛09:00
bigcalmWhat's worse is that it'll be my birthday 3 days before and I still haven't got her a gift09:00
popey(feel free to do that)09:00
bigcalmpopey: You mean this thing? :) http://cuth.eu/wishes09:00
popeyooh, short url, nice idea!09:00
DJonesHeh, Samsung Player One interface almost looks how I'd expect a Unity interface on Ubuntu phones to look http://img1.digitalversus.com/produits/36/5291/36_5291_2.jpg09:00
DJonesAlmost appears to a Unity bar09:01
funkyHatBah. Canonical design team never have original ideas!09:01
popeyboom, http://popey.com/wishlist09:01
funkyHatOh now that is a good idea09:02
popeyDJones: (it doesn't look like that) ☻09:02
bigcalmThe Apple TV is cheaper than I had expected it to be09:03
popeyhttp://www.amazon.co.uk/Colossus-The-Forbin-Project-DVD/dp/B00149XOVS/ref=wl_it_dp_v_S_nC?ie=UTF8&colid=LXT6MFP2WUWA&coliid=I2GMXAMI1J9QZL love that film09:03
popeymore computers should have blippy bloppy sound effects09:03
bigcalm5 pages of wishes?! I hate myself to just buying things when I should throw them on a wishlist09:04
popeycant parse that09:04
bigcalmYour wish list goes on for 5 pages09:04
DJonesI'm pretty sure my last HTC phone ended up with with an similar style interface09:04
bigcalmMine, I think, is just 1 page at the moment09:05
DJonesbigcalm: Whats the betting some people just use www.amazon.co.uk as their wishlist :)09:05
bigcalmI need to find more things to put on my wish list09:07
mungbeani have just the thing09:08
=== luke is now known as Guest22038
stevecccapologies for this question - I know its off topic - using skype on ubuntu and I wondered if anyone from the uk here uses a subscription - I wanted to know what is classed as a landline number - is it just the standard area codes and not 0845 numbers etc?09:20
DJonessteveccc: I would expect it will just be normal numbers and would exclude 0845 number etc09:21
popeysteveccc: i have one09:21
stevecccpopey: may i pm you09:21
popeyyou can talk here ☻09:21
popeynot used it recently.. hmm09:22
* popey looks for the skype icon09:22
popeybah, skype credit expired09:22
dwatkins"Premium rate numbers: The charges payable for calling premium rate numbers consist of a per-minute rate available at www.skype.com/go/rates-premium. No connection fee is payable."09:23
popeysteveccc: generally landline referrs to numbers which are 01xxxxxx09:23
TheOpenSourcererI think "landline" numbers are not numbers called non-geographic, e.g. 0844, 0845 etc.09:23
dwatkinsIt doesn't define what a landline is on that page, as far as I can see, however: http://www.skype.com/en/legal/tou/09:23
steveccci have to start home working soon and didnt want to get another landline or use my mobile. The subscription sounds good but if its just pure landlines I am sure it will annoy me more than it works as lots of places these days have "alternative numbers"09:24
TheOpenSourcererWe use an 0844 number. It's cheap for us but all callers pay national rate call charges.09:24
dwatkinsthere's always http://www.saynoto0870.com/09:24
steveccci presume if i buy a landline number without the monthly subscriptions that incoming will be working ok09:25
diploTheOpenSourcerer: Do you still run a Asterix box ?09:25
TheOpenSourcererdiplo: Yes - we run it on a VM at Hetzner in Germany09:25
diplooh right, about to play with it myself was wondering if you could recommend a card but I'm guessing you rent sip lines or something09:26
TheOpenSourcererYes - we rent IAX2 trunks.09:27
TheOpenSourcererNo physical cards here ;-)09:27
diploI just want a play, will do some googling later and read some reviews09:28
stevecccare there any good alternatives to skype for linux for normal voice calls09:28
czajkowskisteveccc: does it need to be on the desktop09:29
TheOpenSourcererYears ago I bought a simple analogue card off eBay and ran it in my little via C7 home server.09:29
czajkowskipersonally skype does the job perfectly well and I'll never not have it09:29
czajkowskiif you want on your phone, use viber09:29
shreyashow good is gnome theme09:29
diploOK, cheap / simple sounds good to me09:29
TheOpenSourcerersteveccc: Google Hangouts, SFLPhone (SIP Softfone)09:30
steveccctheopensourcerer: does google hangouts to landline calls?09:30
TheOpenSourcerersteveccc: Dunno actually. Doubt it cause that means there needs to be money involved.09:30
Garyhi ya, does anyone have any ideas on what I can get my foster-son for his 16th Birthday (which is in less than a month) - money is really tight :'(09:35
mungbeanwhat does he like doing?09:36
Garywell, thats the fun bit, he's a bit depressed and stuff (hense him being my fosterkid) and doesn't do much/he's a bit withdrawn09:37
mungbeansounds like my wife's foster bro09:37
Garyhe is getting better, at least he talks and leaves his room now!09:37
mungbeanbeing a teenager sucks09:38
mungbeanexcept for summer holidays09:38
Garybut trying to get interests/wants out of him is entertaining09:38
mungbeanraspberry pi?09:38
mungbeanmaybe source a screen/keyboard/mouse from friends for free09:39
Garyhe's recently accidently broken the screen on a old handmedown laptop, but I cannot afford a new one for him09:40
mungbeanwhich model?09:40
GaryI think it is a HP 6730p09:42
GaryI'd have to check though09:42
* christel hugs Gary 09:44
bigcalmIs it just me, or does chromium not like Sound Cloud?10:02
bigcalmchristel: something for your aural senses https://soundcloud.com/weebl/pills10:03
popeybigcalm: yeah, i had that, some problem with the plugins or something10:07
bigcalmpopey: not really worth my time to mess about with it. Firefox is playing it okay :)10:08
bigcalmIs it worth ditching chromium and installing chrome?10:10
* popey shrugs10:11
popeyi use chromium10:11
bigcalmOh, I thought you had chrome10:11
davmor2Morning all10:13
bigcalmMorning davmor210:15
bigcalmdavmor2: are you still using stock vendor on your SGS3? If so, have you yet had the system freeze on you?10:16
davmor2bigcalm: it's mostly switched off now as I am using ubuntu phone on my galaxy nexus.  I've had it reboot a few times but not freeze, I'd ring your provider to be honest10:17
bigcalmHo hum10:18
* popey flashes his phone10:19
davmor2popey: Ubuntu touch is beginning to rock more each day :)  I showed a business owner it over the weekend he was gob smacked how much had been done in such a short time :)10:20
mungbeanany recent vids of it?10:21
BigRedSI'm tempted to stick Ubuntu on my now-superceded Galaxy S 210:22
davmor2popey: he loved a couple of things about it, the keyboard wasn't tiny, and the full screen layout,  I showed him the design for the calendar (I know he uses his a hell of a lot) and he loved it :)10:22
BigRedSthen I'd essentially have a tablet that's smaller than my phone10:22
BigRedSanyone know if the build tools all Just Work in Debian?10:22
davmor2BigRedS: I've no idea but popey  might be able to answer that better10:25
BigRedSI'd assumed it was just dump a zip on the sd card and tell clockworkmod to install it, but all the instructions look a lot more involved :/10:27
BigRedSdavmor2: yeah, I could RTFM though :)10:27
mungbeanwould ubuntu phone work on my hp touchpad yet?10:28
BigRedSI recall xnox mentioning that all the ubuntu tools were just wrappers around adb and friends, so I guess at worst I need to work out what they're calling10:28
BigRedSmungbean: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Devices10:29
davmor2BigRedS: you can do it that way too, the phablet flash tools actually just makes life easier :)10:29
BigRedSeasier than copying a zip file?10:29
davmor2BigRedS: oh I just thought you can't use phablet flash so you would need to follow the steps on xda/ubuntu wiki probably10:29
BigRedSdavmor2: yeah, I gues half the instructions are to get cm and stuff installed, assuming a locked device with stock bootloader etc.10:30
davmor2BigRedS: phablet-flash in a terminal is really easy  for me :)10:30
xnoxBigRedS: well, yeah.... one can use just plain adb to install ubuntu touch without and phablet-flash and etc: see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Install#Manual_Installation10:30
popeyBigRedS: yes, it's just dump a zip file on10:30
BigRedSOh. cool10:31
popeymungbean: if someone has ported it10:31
BigRedSsee, this is why I never get as far as bothering to rtfm - I wonder out loud in IRC and several people give me the answers :)10:31
mungbeanwondering if it will trash my CM install10:33
mungbeani hate forums10:33
mungbeanskiiming the pages10:33
mungbeanthey are waiting for 13.04, works for 12.1010:33
BigRedSwhich reminds me, I'm almost completely sold on stock androids now. Few days into stock firmware on my GS3 and I'm absolutely loving how much more stable and less clunky it is10:34
mungbeanp12 has a git link10:36
mungbeanxda people can't help but give terse instructions10:37
mungbeanas if they have a bus to catch10:37
BigRedSI've always found those helpful. They say exactly what you need to do and nothing more10:37
mungbeanno because on p4 there's some cirtical info that doesn't ever make it to the first post10:39
popeyindeed, forums suck. all of them. with no exceptions10:39
mungbeans/forums/tech forums/10:39
popeynah, all10:40
mungbeanmodelling forums do the job10:40
popeyi have a prolem with my volvo10:40
popeysame thing, solution is on page 11 of 1210:40
BigRedSthey're good for being a forum, less so for being a technical reference10:40
bigcalmpopey: my phone froze when I tried to view the image about fiddling with your phone10:40
popeyhah, irony10:41
bigcalmLove it10:41
mungbeanmodelling forums it works because there's no problems  just chit chat and work in progress, and final build shots etc10:41
mungbeanno critical answers,10:41
BigRedSI use two forums regularly. One of them I find asolutely fine annd the other's only an issue because its 'style' makes my eyes bleed. But I use them entirely socially so I don't care where the 'solution' is, it's just a conversation10:41
mungbeanobv except for the "whats the best airbrush, ZZZ posts"10:42
=== fwereade__ is now known as fwereade
mungbeananyone else with firefox audio stuttering, requiring pulseaudio kill each time?12:59
mungbeanwatching gangnam style ghostbusters mashuop..seems to work13:00
popeynever use firefox13:03
mungbeanchrome does it 2x speed instead13:03
mungbeanuntil PA restarted13:04
awilkinsMy problem with pulse is if I skip around in a video file it gets into a corrupt state and plays nothing but broken frames13:23
popeychromebook dropped in price13:34
mungbeanis that the discountinued one?13:34
GaryI could get one of them for the fosterkid!13:40
Garyas long as he can see farcebook and boobtube he;ll be happy13:40
mungbeanthere's lots of things my 16yr old self would love doing, but i'm not/was not every 16yr old13:42
mungbeanhow much work can you do offline on a chrome book? e.g. documents13:45
Garynot sure really13:48
GaryI'd really want to nip into pcworld and try one13:48
MooDooGary: I do that all the time at our local pc world, still can't afford one though13:51
Garywell I can't either, but it is his 16th soon and I might be able to extort money out of his mother and father13:52
mungbeanif i had summer hlidays at my disposal, i'd be making this: http://airfixtributeforum.myfastforum.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=21527&hilit=a5000913:53
mungbeankids are all xbox nowadays :(13:54
Garyairfix stuff is great13:58
mungbeana noble hobby13:58
GaryDaniel used to do warhammer stuff, till it got too uncool13:58
MooDooI love warhammer 40k :)13:59
mungbeani think others progress onto gangpla jap robots13:59
mungbeanor WWII airfix etc13:59
mungbeancool is only what's defined by critical mass of people anyway, but means everything to teenagers13:59
mungbeanMooDoo: what's 40k?14:00
mungbeanah, tabletop game14:01
mungbeanLOTR warhammer must be considered cool by everyone :D14:01
MooDoomungbean: warhammer 40k is space marines set in the far future14:03
mungbeandressing up as legolas to play lotr version seems compulsory... http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v316/Mr_Rose/WotR/m2060051_P1Mb3.jpg14:04
diploPython people in here ? New to it, but basically wrote a simple script with urllib.urlretrieve to grab 1600+ images from a supplier but it's slooow14:08
diploGuessing it's because it's opening a new connection to each image each time.. any way of keeping a session open some how ?14:08
mgdmthe option you want is called 'keepalive', but I've no idea if urllib supports it14:10
diplota, I'll read their docs14:11
MooDoodiplo, you'e not the messaih you're a very naughty boy, wrong python?14:22
BigRedSSame python, isn't it?14:24
BigRedSwell, the one named after the other14:24
* czajkowski pokes davmor2 14:32
* MooDoo gives czajkowski a cattle prod...and welcome back 14:34
diplobah, finished now anyway.. urllib3 seems the way to go but I'm not I can be bothered to re-write it14:35
diplothat was the helpful thing to search for mgdm so thanks for the input14:36
mungbeanare NS&I accounts still worth getting for kids?14:52
bigcalmmungbean: if you're willing to put in a good chunk of money15:12
bigcalmI've got some money locked away in an account. It's "won" £25 in the last 6 years15:13
mungbeandiscovered the halifax one is 3% for kids15:13
mungbeanbanks are the worst kind of ripoff now15:14
* davmor2 prods czajkowski with a small lump of charcoal :)15:14
mungbeanin the olden days at least interest rates on old accounts wouldnt go to 0.1%15:14
christeli think halifax does a no-withdrawal one that is modelled loosely on the old child trust fund setup which has a slightly better interest rate15:16
christel6% fixed iirc15:16
christel(unless that has changed since i last looked)15:17
mungbeanah yes christel15:18
mungbeanits a regular investment capped at 100pm for 1 yr15:18
mungbeanso have to move after 1 yr15:18
mungbeanor you get screwed as usual15:19
mungbeani was thinking more along lines of 3k in a kiddies account and leave to simmer for 20 years15:19
* czajkowski tickles davmor2 missing me yet 15:19
davmor2czajkowski: who are you?15:19
christelmungbean: aah! that is a bit rubbish15:21
christeli have various savings accounts for the boy wonder but i am not very clued up about what they do/are -- i have a financial advisor who just tells me how to save in the most tax-efficient manner!15:22
diploSave? Wats that word mean?!?!?15:22
davmor2christel: Save you mean you have money left once you pay your amazon bill ;)15:23
mungbeanits all very stressful15:23
christeldavmor2: i dont use amazon! :P15:23
christelbut yes, i am fortunate enough in my old age to have reached a point where my income far outweighs my outgoings so i figured it was wise to plan ahead for stuff like sending kids to uni and what not! ;)15:24
mungbeanhowever at todays rates, 3k in saving at birth will equal 3056.64 at uni time :(15:25
davmor2mungbean: well that's their beer fund for the first term whats wrong with that ;)15:27
christeldavmor2: you're optimistic! in 20 years time 3K will only buy you a half...15:29
mungbeanit still doesn't make me give up and spend it though15:30
mungbeanwhich is the govts wish15:30
=== steveccc_ is now known as steveccc
davmor2mungbean: at 3% in an isa you would be closer to £5000 I think15:38
mungbeanbut with inflation..15:39
davmor2mungbean: what will you care you'll be soylent green by then any way ;)15:44
mungbeanin 20 yrs ? :(15:49
Laney3% in an ISA15:49
Laneyho ho ho ho15:49
LaneyI could only get 2.8 including a 1 year bonus this financial year :(15:50
mungbeani got 4.5 last year, i wonder if i can trasnfer in15:50
davmor2mungbean: and if you're lucky that will be worth a barmy 3 intergalactic units or £1.5015:51
Laneymanaged to get a whopping 3% in december15:51
Laney(including bonus too)15:51
Laneythat closed to new deposits when this financial year started15:51
mungbeanmy inflation is much higher15:51
mungbeancan i transfer an ISA twice in a year?15:52
mungbeanInterest rate: 4.25% Gross15:52
mungbeancould be an epic win as i've been putting into one since they began15:53
Laneyyeah now you have to ditch & switch every year15:53
mungbeanjust a tad15:54
feisarhi, just installed 13.04 on a netbook for a friend but it's pretty much unusable due to the graphics, is there anyway to fix that or is Ubuntu no use for netbooks anymore?16:01
brobostigonfeisar: i wouldnt use unity on a netbook, try something abit lighter on its reources, like xfce, for example.16:12
feisarbrobostigon: yeah thanks, that's actually what I do for myself but this guy likes ubuntu (and unity) and it's a shame if I have to put him back on 12.0416:14
brobostigonfeisar: you dont need to go back, just install xfce on 13.0416:14
feisarbrobostigon: but xfce is not what this guys used to, it's quite different from Unity16:15
brobostigonfeisar: i am sure, there are probably ways of making unity abit lighter on resources, i dont use unity myself, but many here do, i am sure someone can help.16:16
feisarit takes 15 seconds to bring up the dash16:16
dwatkinsis unity used on the netbook version of ubuntu?16:22
dwatkinsmy netbook ran everything better after being upgraded to 2 GB of RAM16:25
MartijnVdSmore RAM is always useful;16:30
feisarI don't think it's the problem here (or enough of the problem). I'm gunna have to give this guy 12.0416:30
feisarhe uses dropbox which doesn't integrate with Thunar so xfce is not a real option16:32
brobostigontry gnome3, dropbox works with nautilus last i looked.16:33
feisarcan I just apt-get install gnome3?16:35
brobostigon!info gnome-shell16:36
lubotu3gnome-shell (source: gnome-shell): graphical shell for the GNOME desktop. In component universe, is optional. Version (quantal), package size 345 kB, installed size 934 kB16:36
feisarok, I gave him a call and he's willing to try xubuntu16:38
feisarbut I'm guessing I need to install nautilus so he gets a decent experience with dropbox16:39
brobostigonsudo apy-get install xubuntu nautilus       m job done.16:40
brobostigoncorrect my mistakes.16:40
feisarthanks, will it be the default then?16:42
brobostigonit might replace the login manager, but you will be able to choose unity etc on login like normal.16:43
feisarI mean , if I install xubuntu how do I then make nautilus default?16:44
brobostigonfeisar: you should be able to change in xfce's preferences which it uses as default.16:45
feisarok thanks16:45
brobostigonas you can in gnome's preferences.16:46
brobostigonalthough, i have not tried it in xfce.16:46
=== feisar is now known as Guest78553
Azelphurhttp://h20000.www2.hp.com/bizsupport/TechSupport/Document.jsp?objectID=c02903601 hmm, this looks a tad worrying17:39
Azelphurespecially since I just turned it on xD17:39
AzelphurHey folks, fresh Ubuntu 13.04 installation on my new microserver, ethernet ain't working. :( lshw -c network says that the interface is "disabled", and it doesn't show up in ifconfig, ideas?18:13
DJonesAny bios switch for it18:15
AzelphurDJones: wouldn't think it would be turned off by default, this is brand new ootb hardware18:16
Azelphurhttp://ustream.tv/channel/Azelphur there we go, you can see whats going on now.18:21
MartijnVdSNO U STREAM TV18:21
MartijnVdSAzelphur: or, when it goes down: Y U NO STREAM TV18:22
MartijnVdSAzelphur: No such device -> no cable?18:22
AzelphurMartijnVdS, nope, cables in and ethernet light is on18:23
MartijnVdSAzelphur: ip link ; ip -s link18:23
AzelphurMartijnVdS, seems to call it em1, interesting18:23
MartijnVdSAzelphur: oh is it bsd?18:23
Azelphurnope, this is ubuntu server 13.0418:24
MartijnVdSbecause fedora 15 seems to do this as well18:25
MartijnVdSfor "embedded on the motherboard" ports18:25
MartijnVdSor something18:25
AzelphurI see18:25
MartijnVdSyou want to look for 'consistent device naming'18:25
AzelphurI don't have anything in /etc/network/interfaces for em118:25
MartijnVdSi.e. a udev rule of some kind :)18:25
Azelphurso perhaps that's why18:25
MartijnVdSAzelphur: that's good, that means network-manager manages it.. unless it's a server install that tends to be what you want18:26
Azelphurit's a server install18:27
MartijnVdSAzelphur: check /etc/udev/rules.d/70-persistent-net.rules18:27
AzelphurMartijnVdS, haha fixed it, yup, em1 stuff in /etc/networking.18:28
MartijnVdSAzelphur: but check the persistent-net.rules18:28
Azelphurit's empty.18:28
MartijnVdSthat would explain it then :)18:29
AzelphurI think it's because I didn't auto configure networking during install actually, all I had to do was put the entry in the network file18:29
Azelphurand off it went18:29
AzelphurMartijnVdS, take a look at the hardware, not bad for 70 quid :)18:30
MartijnVdSAzelphur: how? where?18:31
Azelphuryou not on the ustream18:31
MartijnVdSyes but I saw a screen :)18:31
MartijnVdSis that one of the HP boxes?18:31
Azelphurnot bad for 70 quid18:31
MartijnVdSnot at all18:32
MartijnVdSwhat kind of spec (cpu, etc.)18:32
MartijnVdSAre those 4 SATA hotswap bays?18:32
Azelphur4 sata bays, non hot swap18:32
ali1234i thought sata was always hotswap18:32
AzelphurAMD Turion II Neo N54L Dual core 2.2ghz18:32
Azelphurit's got a big-ass label on it saying no hotswap18:33
MartijnVdSmeh.. I even have a hotswap bay in my Cooler Master case18:33
MartijnVdSworks fine18:33
MartijnVdSIs that you in the frame?18:34
Azelphuryea they are all labeled "non hot plug HDD"18:34
AzelphurMartijnVdS, yup18:34
Azelphurso yea that's done anyway, now to play with it and set up samba and such18:35
SuperEngineerI asked this last night but didn't follow up. So: what is the difference between minecraft.net & minecraft.org [is one a false link]?18:51
SuperEngineer[thinking of trying Minecraft but don't fancy going where only evil people tread]18:51
ali1234minecraft.net is the real one18:51
MartijnVdS.org seems to be a site for addon packs18:51
SuperEngineerthanks ali1234, MartijnVdS18:52
SuperEngineeris it worth trying the free [from Software Centre] Minetest clone... to see if it's to my taste?18:53
SuperEngineer...or stick to the real game & hope18:55
popeyno harm trying minetest18:59
SuperEngineerif it's close enough to see if it's "within my test" - that's cool... will give it a go 1st19:00
SuperEngineersub test/taste - sorry19:00
* brobostigon used to run his own minetest server,19:02
advancedgardeSo, after extensive testing, I phoned WD about my faulty HDD and it's going to be replaced under warenty.19:03
advancedgardeCan anyone recommend any good software for (relatively) securely erasing the data before I ship it?19:04
advancedgardeis dd secure?19:05
MartijnVdSdd just overwrites19:05
MartijnVdSwhich is secure19:05
MartijnVdSwhy wouldn't it be?19:06
advancedgardeHmm, I was under the impression it was better to overwite your data with some random non repeating patterns.19:06
brobostigon /dev/null :)19:07
MartijnVdSadvancedgarde: you could send the drive a "secure erase" command19:07
advancedgardeI thought that was just SSDs19:07
MartijnVdSadvancedgarde: secure erase is for all ATA drives that support it19:08
MartijnVdSyou may be thinking of TRIM19:08
advancedgardeThat is cool, I did not know it applied to conventional HDDs19:08
MartijnVdSadvancedgarde: anyway, that wiki page explains how to secure-erase a (S)ATA Drive19:08
advancedgardeThank you.19:08
awilkinsAFAIK `dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/disktowipe` is secure enough also19:09
MartijnVdSawilkins: unless the receiver has access to some VERY expensive equipment, and knows what kind of thing he's looking for19:10
awilkinsAll the stuff about there being traces of previous writes was true of older disks with much larger magnetic domains19:10
awilkinsBut I bet you that even modern data recovery labs are hard-pressed to get data back from a zero-wiped platter19:10
MartijnVdS1TB platters are *insane*19:11
MartijnVdSawilkins: but a proper ATA secure erase can't hurt :)19:11
advancedgardeawilkins, I agree with you completly and also doubt that I have anything of interest to anyone at WD on my drive. Also it's a 2TB drive so ...19:11
MartijnVdSawilkins: by the firmware itself19:11
awilkinsNope,. can't hurt19:11
awilkinsAnd will be fastest possible speed19:12
advancedgardeSounds perfect.19:12
awilkinsThe fastest way to secure wipe a drive is to use full disk encryption and then wipe the keyblock19:12
awilkinsProviding your encryption scheme was secure in the first place, you end up with a drive that should be indistinguishable from random noise19:13
awilkinsOur "secure" flash drive vendor plays on our fears and says we should physically destroy them when we're done with them19:14
awilkinsRather than just reformatting the things19:14
awilkins(they are cheap nasty flash drives with a plaintext partition for the drivers)19:14
awilkins(they charge £64 for a 2GB one - I literally can't even buy 2GB flash drives anymore)19:15
advancedgardeawilkins, at the risk of sounding as if I have somehting to hide, I've heard that if I encrypt my and the government want to know what's on there that legally I must provide the key. What would happen if I did as you said, would we end up with a drive that could not be decrypted?19:15
SuperEngineeradvancedgarde: ever heard of a de-gauser?19:15
MartijnVdSSuperEngineer: *zap*19:15
ali1234advancedgarde: yes19:15
awilkinsadvancedgarde, Well, you could claim you like to collect random noise19:15
awilkinsadvancedgarde, Another response to that threat is a plausible deniability partition19:16
MartijnVdSawilkins: "I'm a connoisseur of random noise"19:16
awilkinsadvancedgarde, Where you have an encrypted volume inside another one19:16
advancedgardehidden as data files?19:16
awilkinsTrueCrypt has this feature19:16
awilkinsNo, hidden at the end of the block19:16
awilkinsSo the outer volume looks like a normal file system occupying that size of space19:17
awilkinsYou mount the outer volume read-only in normal use, then mount the inner volume19:17
awilkinsSet it up so there's something mildly embarassing / private/ confidential in the outer volume19:17
awilkinsSo there's a reason for you to have encrypted it19:18
awilkinsOf course, the spooks KNOW about this approach19:18
awilkinsBut they can't prove it19:18
awilkinsAnd it's lot more plausible to say "no, there isn't an nested volume" than "no, that huge block of random noise is just the output of some astronomical sensors aimed at empty space"19:19
ali1234what if i actually have a large amount of random looking data?19:19
awilkinsali1234, Then you go to jail for 2 years, I think19:20
advancedgardeYes. Probably even more plausible to respond with "What's a nested volume?".19:20
awilkinsHeh, the spooks already know that we know now19:20
MartijnVdSawilkins: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7lRldr2BH2M19:21
* awilkins waves at the PRISM / ECHELON guys19:21
ali1234does anyone have a good system for handling "old" files?19:21
MartijnVdSali1234: rm -rf19:21
ali1234you know when you make a new homedir19:21
ali1234and rename the old one "old" and put it inside the old "old" one19:21
ali1234and keep doing that for like 15 years19:21
advancedgardeThat's what I do.19:21
MartijnVdSso you have old/old/old/old/username19:21
ali1234pretty much19:22
ali1234it's like 100GB now and i need to sort it19:22
advancedgardeEverynow and then I move them to a new folder called "back".19:22
mungbeanhave you used it?19:22
MartijnVdSali1234: take a week off work, sort ~19:22
ali1234yeah thing is i don't want to do it manually19:22
ali1234i need some software to do it for me19:22
awilkinsHeh, I restore my old home folder backup to a folder in my new home folder too19:22
awilkinsI move anything that's still relevant out19:22
mungbeanremove firefox caches and profiles etc, maybe its the 80-20 rule19:23
ali1234yeah so do i. but that's normally just .ssh and .mozilla19:23
awilkinsYeah, so I can probably lose quite a lot of that restore folder19:23
MartijnVdSand those other xdg dirs19:23
awilkins~/Music is on an external volume19:23
ali1234i don't keep music in my homedir19:23
mungbean80% of dpace taken by 20% so du usually finds the nulk, and 20% leave until never19:24
ali1234i don't use any of the standard folders actually19:24
MartijnVdSmungbean: is that Welsh?19:24
awilkinsMy music is on an external drive and synced (manually) with my other devices19:24
mungbeandpace=space nulk=bulk19:24
ali1234so i'm thinking hash all the files to remove duplicates19:25
advancedgardeI was talking about doing exactly the same thing about 2 hours ago with my dad ...19:25
ali1234then libextract to get kkeywords19:26
mungbeanquite easy to find matches in a du list and a sum'd list19:26
ali1234but then i don't know what to do after that19:26
ali1234maybe heuristic to find source directories, there's probably a lot of those19:26
mungbeanit might not matter if u already have the big stuff from a du -ks | sort -n19:26
awilkinsTrash anything that is a version controlled folder with no local changes19:27
ali1234there are no big files19:27
ali1234i wasn't exagerating when i said 15 years19:27
mungbean10gb per upgrade i suppose19:28
mungbeanarchive it?19:28
ali1234it already is archived19:28
ali1234the problem is finding things19:28
mungbeanyou regularly do that?19:28
mungbeanfind thingds?19:28
mungbeanwonder if tracker finds dupes19:29
ali1234tracker can't handle it19:29
advancedgardeI'm going to go eat dinner. Thanks for the help ^^19:29
ali1234i will write my own db for it19:30
AlanBellali1234: I have a fairly deep tree of /home/alan/Desktop/stuff/stuff/stuff/stuff where I have done the tidyup19:31
ali1234i've been tidying it for years19:32
ali1234that's why there's no longer any big files19:32
MartijnVdSI have several directories where I keep files that are hard/impossible to replace19:32
MartijnVdSothers I just delete19:33
AlanBellI only have 1.4G on the desktop and below19:33
MartijnVdSmy desktop is 8k.. a link to steam19:33
dwatkinscan I make alt+\ switch windows within a particular application, e.g. between terminals in Unity?19:33
MartijnVdSdwatkins: alt+` does that19:34
dwatkinsaha thanks MartijnVdS :)19:34
MartijnVdSdwatkins: so I guess you can rebind it in the keyboard preferences19:34
mungbeanrealised i only read twitter 1x per week, or maybe longer now19:34
MartijnVdSmungbean: barbarian!19:35
ali1234hmm it's growing19:36
mungbeanwhat size are top 10 files?19:37
ali1234how do i find out?19:37
MartijnVdSali1234: baobab19:38
ali1234that doesn't show files at all19:38
mungbeanstart with du -ks * | sort -n | head19:39
mungbeandu -ks * | sort -rn | head19:39
ali1234that only lists the directories19:39
mungbeandepends how nested, hmm19:40
mungbeandu -x / | sort -rn | head ?19:41
MartijnVdSali1234: ls -lRS | sort -n -k 519:41
mungbeandu -x  | sort -rn | head ?19:41
MartijnVdSthat would work19:41
MartijnVdSmungbean wins :)19:41
ali1234again that just lists directories19:42
MartijnVdSdu -x lists everything right?19:42
MartijnVdSdu -ax19:42
ali1234the biggest file is 20301996./phablet-dev19:42
ali1234hmm my bad19:43
ali1234the biggest file is 63008864./crapola/al-old/Old19:43
ali1234then 32031244./crapola/al-old/Old/ooo19:43
ali1234then 32031240./crapola/al-old/Old/ooo/Old19:43
ali1234and so on19:43
ali1234i'll just write some code to sort it19:43
mungbeancheck that ax also reads . files19:44
MartijnVdSmungbean: du -ax ~ should do that19:45
ali1234ax outputs exactly the same19:45
mungbean.wine naughty19:45
mungbeanGOG.com/IL-2 Sturmovik 194619:46
mungbeanguys, apt-get install ncdu19:49
mungbeanyou will not regret it19:49
popey!info ncdu19:49
lubotu3ncdu (source: ncdu): ncurses disk usage viewer. In component universe, is optional. Version 1.8-1 (quantal), package size 25 kB, installed size 87 kB19:49
* popey adds that to command line love19:50
ali1234find Old/ -type f -exec ./extract.py {} \; | tee filedata.txt19:50
ali1234http://paste.ubuntu.com/5796503/ <- extract.py19:51
mungbean"This week's command line love comes from mungbean in irc"..would make me lol to hear that on the radio show19:51
ali1234200GB so this should take about ... 2 days19:52
ali1234hmm i found some big "files" :)19:56
mungbeanali1234 is going to jail for 2yrs19:56
ali1234.cache is rather big and i have many19:57
mungbeanrandom data, sir? a likely story , off to the nick19:57
mungbean.cache is big on mine too19:57
mungbeanapr 2012 last used19:57
* AlanBell has a clean desktop again19:58
AlanBellapart from one folder called "Desktop Stuff"19:58
ali1234deleting all the cache directories recovered 6 GB19:59
ali1234194GB to go19:59
mungbeanold picasa 2 dbs20:01
mungbeangoogle suck20:01
mungbeanall these non standard locations20:01
ali12342200724 files20:02
MartijnVdSmungbean: it's getting better though20:02
MartijnVdSmungbean: stuff is in ~/.config now and ~/.cache20:02
awilkinsNTFS would pitch a hissy fit if you did that to it20:02
awilkinsfed it over 2 million files20:03
ali1234make lots of nested backups?20:03
ali1234well linux doesn't do much better20:03
ali1234try putting 100000 files in a directory, then entering the directory and pressing tab twice20:04
ali12343123 filedata.txt - 1.5% scanned :)20:04
awilkinsAt least the userspace tools on Linux can cope with paths longer than 240 chars20:05
awilkinsFAT has a limit... but NTFS has no such limit ... but all the userspace tools (and maybe the APIs) still verify the limit20:06
awilkinsWhich is silly, especially given Window's penchant for unncessarily long path names20:06
awilkins"Documents and Settings\username\My Documents" I'm looking at you20:06
mungbeanwonder if its worth watching the mary celsete prog on yesterday channel20:07
ali1234ooo i found my second life login20:11
ali1234down to 168GB after deleting several old kernels and tianocore20:16
awilkinsAhh, Second Life.20:21
awilkinsI used to tool around with an avatar that wore a dragons head and claws, black keratin skeletal wings20:22
awilkinsAnd fly a lot20:22
ali1234my dude has a ridiculous afro and shades20:22
awilkinsThen I landed on one of those islands that's mostly very strange pr0n20:23
awilkinsAccidentally, 'natch20:23
diploevening all, never played Second Life20:23
ali1234i'm down to 147GB/1.4M files20:27
mungbeani would love a tv programme like this for the UK20:42
mungbeanjames may goes into peoples attics to find crusty old rare toys20:43
GentileBenThat's still a lot of porn, ali1234.20:45
Azelphurare unmounted drives supposed to show up in blkid?20:54
Azelphurhaving quite a bit of trouble getting them to mount at all actually, wondering if it's because they are 3TB drives21:04
Azelphurthey worked fine when I had them in the USB enclosure21:04
awilkinsAzelphur, block device is a block device, surely?21:14
Azelphurawilkins: you'd think, trying mount /dev/sdb1 /media/disk, and it says that it can't determine the filesystem type21:15
Azelphurhttp://paste.ubuntu.com/5796684/ fdisk output21:15
ali1234well did yo format it?21:15
awilkinsNot encrypted are they?21:16
awilkins(no, they worked fine in the USB thing)21:16
Azelphurali1234: it has data on it from when it was a USB drive21:16
Azelphurand yea, they worked fine in USB21:16
ali1234what does dmesg say21:16
awilkinsNot a sector size mismatch thing is it21:16
Azelphur[ 7105.684109] FAT-fs (sdb1): bogus number of reserved sectors21:17
Azelphur[ 7105.684206] FAT-fs (sdb1): Can't find a valid FAT filesystem21:17
ali1234well it isn't fat21:17
awilkinsI've seen USB drives that had an odd block size before - the controller isn't doing weird stuff?21:17
ali1234not if it is 3TB21:17
AzelphurI think it's exFAT21:17
Azelphurwondering if it's because they are 3tb?21:19
ali1234they were 3tb in the usb enclosure tho...21:19
Azelphurthat's true, they were21:20
Paladinethanks for the tweet popey21:20
Azelphurthis is a new box I'm plugging them into too, but they were plugged into a Ubuntu machine fine before21:20
awilkinsNot the USB controller doing funky stuff with the blocks is it?21:20
Azelphurno idea21:21
awilkinsDoing LBA with different block counts to compensate for them being 3TB drives21:21
Azelphurhttp://www.ebuyer.com/384256-seagate-3tb-expansion-desktop-hard-drive-stbv3000200?utm_source=google&utm_medium=products&gclid=CK3giu7P_bcCFaXMtAodCQ8ALg it's a pair of these21:21
awilkinsI think I've only got up to 2TB drives :-Z21:21
popeynp Paladine21:22
Paladineback shortly21:23
Azelphurali1234: so any ideas?21:25
ali1234probably the USB controller21:25
Azelphurback in the enclosure, backup, reformat? *sigh*21:26
awilkinsTake note of the block metrics in the enclosure too21:33
awilkinsWill be interesting if nothing else21:33
Azelphurawilkins: what do you wanna know? it's in the enclosure now21:41
awilkinsWhat's the output of fdisk again21:42
Azelphurawilkins: http://paste.ubuntu.com/5796764/ it's sdb21:43
awilkinsYou can see the problem right there21:44
awilkinsCheck the logical sector size and sector counts21:44
awilkinsCompared to your old fdisk http://paste.ubuntu.com/5796684/21:44
Azelphur4096 byte sectors?21:45
Azelphurso the usb thing breaks the 4096 sectors into 512s21:45
awilkinsYeah, attached to the SATA port they are 512 byte sectors21:45
awilkinsOn the USB they are 409621:45
Azelphurright, anyway, suggestions on what partitioning to use now? :P21:45
AzelphurI have one ready to repartition, then I'll move the data and do the other one21:46
awilkinsBack it up and repartition it on the SATA21:46
Azelphuryea I'm repartitioning on the sata21:46
awilkinsThat's the problem - your partition tables are right for 4096 byte sectors, not 512 byte ones21:46
Azelphurindeed :)21:46
awilkinsWell, do they have to share with Windows?21:47
Azelphurawilkins: got one on USB (has data) and one the SATA (no data) ready to be repartitioned21:47
Azelphurawilkins: only via samba and such.21:47
awilkinsRight, so you can choose a native linux FS21:47
Azelphurtheir new permanent home is inside my fileserver21:47
awilkinsI would probably just go for ext4 because it's the default and I have no special needs21:48
awilkinsIn the past I've used reiser and xfs but for particular applications21:48
Azelphursounds cool, do I need to do anything special regarding partition tables for 3tb drives21:48
AzelphurI'm sure I remembr reading about them needing to be GPT21:48
awilkinsxfs for a mythtv server because it deletes large files with small cost21:48
Azelphurawilkins: this is movie storage much like mythtv21:48
Azelphurso, XFS might be a better choice?21:49
awilkinsNot sure, I set this box up before ext4 was available21:49
awilkinsReally old MythTV server - has a Sempron under the hood21:49
AzelphurI'll go ext4 since it's easy :)21:49
Azelphurawilkins: haha, so does mine21:49
Azelphursempron 140 \m/21:49
Azelphurnow to figure out how on earth to use parted21:50
awilkinsI just use fdisk21:50
diploAzelphur: My file server with lots of films on it is fine, albeit it's a samba box not a myth backend21:50
Azelphurawilkins: that works too :)21:50
diploSame here, never actually tried parted on the cl21:50
Azelphurawilkins: what would I do with fdisk to reformat it?21:50
awilkinsNever really got myself square with LVM21:50
diplomk2fs.ext4 ?21:50
awilkinsfdisk, it has a help menu21:51
diploSomething like that21:51
awilkinsI usually check that before each command21:51
diploDon't format with fdisk21:51
awilkinsNo, fdisk is for partition tables21:51
awilkinsfdisk then mkfs.ext421:51
awilkinsUsing the Japanese Train Driver method (physically point at screen checking parameters before hitting enter)21:52
* diplo +1's awilkins 21:52
diploI always when playing with fdisk for a customer run in a spare vm, never feel overly confident :)21:53
awilkinsI managed to dd over the partition table on a live machine once21:54
awilkinsIt was the root partition of the box I was running on21:55
awilkinsHappily it was just my workstation21:55
awilkinsBut still bloody annoying21:55
awilkinsManaged to back it up before it shut down for the last time ever....21:55
awilkinsWas trying to wipe the partition table on a stubborn flash drive21:56
diploMy biggest, maybe only foobar at work was...21:56
diplorf -rf / :D21:56
awilkinsThat's a classic21:56
diploheh, twas only the backup machine21:56
diploWrote a script to backup sql db's and rsync some sites21:56
diploAnd did a check for age of file and passed it like $file/21:57
diploDon't know why I'd left a slash on the end.. but i did21:57
Azelphurthere we go, one successfully mounted 3TB drive21:57
diploAnd when there was nofile it pass the file21:57
diploYou know I'm going to go to work tomorrow and do something regrettable now!21:59
Paladinepopey did you see this? https://www.freelancer.com/projects/Software-Architecture/Chromium-Firefox-branch.html22:02
Paladineif you know anyone who fits the bill and might be interested, can you pass them my details?22:02
ali1234Azelphur: you want lvm with that22:02
Azelphurali1234: why?22:04
ali1234it's software raid basically22:04
ali1234if you have two disks, you want it22:04
Azelphuroh, right22:04
Azelphurali1234: the problem with that is tha tone of the disks has the data on it22:04
Azelphurand I have nowhere to dump 2TB of data.22:04
Azelphurmy current plan is format 1st to ext4 -> move data onto it, format 2nd to ext4, done22:05
Azelphurali1234: I'm correct in saying ^, right?22:07
Azelphurcan't do LVM if I have nowhere temporary to store the data22:07
ali1234well you can create a lvm with one drive, copy the files on, then add the second drive22:13
ali1234and then expand the partition or whatever22:13
Azelphurali1234: and the benefit of this would be RAID, so protection against drive failure?22:16
Azelphurali1234: if you wanted to walk me through it, I'd be cool with doing it22:16
ali1234well you can do whatever you want with it22:17
ali1234you can make a 6TB partition if you want22:17
Azelphurthis is for my fileserver, so it's literally just mass storage22:17
ali1234i can't remember how to do it22:17
Azelphurit'd be nice to have it all in one partition, that's for sure22:17
ali1234it's not hard to do22:17
ali1234i followed a guide22:17
Azelphurshow me what guide you followed? :)22:19
ali1234probably that22:19
Azelphurali1234: raid5 is the sane setup for something like this I think, but you need 3 drives, right?22:21

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