[00:32] ali1234: happen to know how LVM fares in the event of disk failure, if I was to combine drives like you recommended the other day? [00:32] it depends how you combined them [00:32] I see [00:32] well, I havn't combined them yet, so what are the options? [00:32] the usual raid modes [00:33] ali1234: yea, there's like raid stripe, and LVM stripe, right? [00:34] I know raid stripe is one drive failure = all data lost [00:34] so what about the LVM option? [00:35] same [00:35] oh, so basically, it doesn't depend [00:35] either way you're fucked. [00:35] xD [00:35] well don't use striping then [00:36] does that mean not using LVM? [00:36] no [00:36] I like the idea of having one big partition, but not at the expense of loosing all my data if the drive fails [00:36] whats the other option then? :P [00:37] you just want standard RAID5/6 [00:38] daftykins: I don't think so, I think I want what ali1234 is vaguely hinting at :P [00:38] i've no experience with LVM so i don't know how that relates [00:38] hehe [00:38] Azelphur: you just have to work for it? ;) [00:38] indeed :) [00:39] i am curious what can be 5 or 6 like and still grow [00:39] i think my 3ware controller can grow a RAID but it seems risky to me [00:39] it tends to be old enough that new disks are needed by the time they're full [00:40] hehe [00:40] yea, I mean I will be periodically adding disks to my setup [00:40] i give up dropping a grand on disks though =| [00:41] so i fear for my data :( [00:44] there isn't really a way to have a logical volume across two disks and only lose half the files if one disk breaks [00:44] you either have mirroring or parity and lose nothing at the cost of disk space, or you have striping and lose everything [00:44] I see [00:44] I suppose I'll avoid LVM then, and just keep separate drives [00:58] as long as you monitor them closely, you can spot impending deaths and transfer off [07:04] Azelphur: i do that with btrfs. [07:05] Azelphur: started with 4 disks in RAID 1 btrfs, then just kept adding disks to grow the volume over time. btrfs allows you to add disks of different sizes too, so I started with 2TB disks but will probably buy 3TB disks and add those in [07:15] morning TheOpenSourcerer [07:15] \o popey [07:25] Morning all [07:37] Ah, netsplits. I'd almost forgotten about them. [07:38] (This like discovering my nickname had "expired", and realising it'd been over a decade since I'd last used IRC properly) === mgdm_ is now known as Guest12842 [07:45] !info gcc-mingw-w64 [07:45] gcc-mingw-w64 (source: gcc-mingw-w64 (7)): GNU C compiler for MinGW-w64. In component universe, is extra. Version 4.6.3-8ubuntu1+7 (quantal), package size 1 kB, installed size 21 kB [08:07] morning [08:09] Morning all [08:28] Good morning all, happy Industrial Workers of the World Day! :) [08:28] * popey gets back down t'pit [08:29] * DJones lends popey a flat cap and a ferret [08:32] With you saying "t'pit" reminds of going to a war/prison camp museum (I think somewhere in Yorkshire) a few years back and walking through a mock up of a wartime coal mine & seeing the conditions the miners had, made me appreciate the conditions my grandfather worked in for 50+ years of his life [08:33] Ah, Eden Camp - That was it [08:33] On the wall in my office, I have the display plans for the "new" pit windings for Kirkby Colliery. [08:34] Dated 1904. Reminds me that despite various job titles, I don't really do "proper" engineering. :-) [08:37] dwdorig: Was Kirkby COlliery actually in Kirkby, or did that extend eastwards towards Bold & Sutton Manor? [08:37] It's more normally called "Top Pit". [08:37] Morning folks [08:38] Hmmh, just realised there is more than one Kirkby, so could be a completely different area [08:39] If its where I think, its Nottinghamshire rather than Lancashire [08:39] Yes, indeed, there's lots of Kirkbys. This one is in Derbyshire I think. [08:40] Right, when you said Kirkby I though it was the one at the end of the East Lancs Road between Bootle & ST Helens, there's two former mines at Bold & Sutton Manor there === schwuk_away is now known as schwuk [08:45] Oh, perhaps I'm wrong - Kirkby-in-Ashfield looks like the one, in Nottinghamshire. === schwuk is now known as schwuk_away [08:46] Although that does look like the wrong company. Now I'm confused... [08:48] Heh, When I looked it up I got to the Kirkby-in-Ashfield one as well [08:52] Ah, no, it's the "top pit" bit that I suspect I've got wrong. But I can't find the company who ran Kirkby Colliery. I'm expecting it to be Butterley. [08:54] Good morning peeps :) [08:54] dwdorig: Found this http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/SearchUI/Details/AssetMain?iaid=C6031760 "Kirkby in Ashfield: Lands west of Kirkby Colliery; Butterley & Co Ltd" [08:55] Bears out what you were expecting [08:56] DJones, That'll be it, thanks. [09:05] good morning everyone. [09:30] Morning brobostigon [09:31] 'ning all [09:32] today is shaping up to be a pretty cool technological day [09:32] i found out that paypal can send cash to your bank acct in < 2hrs [09:32] i found a whole new bunch of albums in my amazon autorip folder [09:32] i got my digg reader invite through [09:33] and just for sheer cuteness, check out what happens when you search for "gay" on google! [09:33] morning bigcalm and neuro [09:33] lo brob [09:34] That is cute [09:35] Amusing that it also returned a load of LGBT dating sites for my area [09:35] Putting geolocation to good use [09:47] the gay thing has been on google for some time [10:01] Morning all === Guest12842 is now known as mgdm [10:22] Morning davmor2 [10:23] davmor2: you missed a cracking LUG last night. I didn't get home until 12.30am [10:27] bigcalm: and you missed an evening of amusement, befuddlement, misdirection, trickery and magic :) [10:27] bigcalm: otherwise known as the reason I couldn't make it :) [10:45] davmor2: ah, we thought you were at Canonical [10:47] davmor2: or, as Jenny called it, Calonical [10:48] a calonic irrigation [10:48] bigcalm: no the magic shop owner has lectures every now and again this time it happened to land on Wednesday, but the guy was absolutely amazing [10:49] bigcalm: I've never met anyone quite so deft with cards. [11:06] This auto-rip on amazon is fun. Just re-discovered a few albums I had bought many years ago [11:06] * bigcalm sways to Pentaphobe [11:09] Not that I've bought many albums from Amazon, but the ones it'd added to my autorip folder are albums that I'd later sold the original cd [11:09] Yes, the legality is some what questionable [11:16] I was just glad I hadn't bought any 'dodgy albums' from Amazon for it to be recorded for all posterity :) [11:17] "We've added 29 songs from your CD purchases for free [11:17] " [11:17] \o/ [11:17] one cd [11:17] which was a present [11:18] I had 2 cd's worth and that was a double album [11:19] 27 albums -> 422 tracks [11:47] Amazon's autrip thing is terrifying. [11:48] Mostly because I almost never buy music (by which I mean, the music I listen to is generally freely downloadable), and instead it's my wife buying CDs for her, her mother, the kids, etc. [11:54] I'll be more impressed when/if they start giving electronic copies of paper books I'd previously bought from them [11:54] ..with no drm [11:55] Ideally with no drm, but I wouldn't complain if they were drm'd [11:56] I've largely made peace with DRMed ebooks. Which is weird given my rabid hippyness elswhere [11:57] I view it as essentially a subscription service; it's a kindle thing and should work as long as I have a kindle [11:57] and if I want to keep it longer than that I'll get it in dead tree [11:58] I'm frantically searching Amazon's privacy clauses to make sure this list can never be public. [11:58] It's got "I love a Party", by "Russ Abbot" - and that's not the worst thing on here. [11:59] There's one book I bought from Amazon that was lent out to somebody before I'd had chance to read it and was promptly lost/misplaced so I wish I could track it down [12:00] dwdorig: I left my spotify account logged in for a party and my '90s Megamix became public knowledge :/ [12:01] The '90's has music? [12:02] Most things after the 80's sound like white noise to me :) Now, get off my lawn [12:02] heeel yeah. B*witched, All Saints, Des'ree, East 17 [12:03] Were B*witched the weird Irish girls in denim? [12:03] dwdorig: does that narrow it down? [12:03] lornajane, Good point, well made. [12:03] haha [12:04] but, yeah, they were some of them [12:04] I shouldn't be rude about them though, pretty sure you would find b*witched on the music server if you looked [12:05] I stopped buying digital music from amazon when they started making me download it a track at a time from a horribly inaccessible interface [12:05] haven't found an alternative supplier though really [12:05] you can download full albums with the app can't you? [12:05] I use spotify generally [12:05] so much easier than managing multiple GB of audio files [12:05] ah, clamz is the command line download tool [12:06] that too [12:06] popey, Speaking of apps, can Ubuntu-Fondle run Android apps? [12:06] * dwdorig hates to drag discussion back to compters, but... [12:07] Nope [12:07] ha, don't worry. I'm only really here because I'm upgrading and I think I've broken something! [12:07] We don't ship dalvik or the java classlibraries [12:09] Ah, right. There's plenty of times I'd prefer a more traditional UNIX on my tablet especially, but I also don't want to lose Android entirely. [12:10] lornajane, Anyway, what's broke? [12:10] "We've added 102 songs from your CD purchases for free" [12:10] including one CD i lost for a few years [12:11] but only just found [12:11] mungbean, That's why it's just been added. They *know*. [12:11] i wish there was "snd to google music" button [12:11] cloud player on linux is fail [12:11] dwdorig: well, aptitude is still running, so maybe nothing. But it's giving me this gdk-pixbuf error quite a few times as it goes along [12:12] lornajane, What error? [12:12] it includes the phrase "This likely means that your installation is broken" which is ringing alarm bells! [12:12] sometimes the CD is same price as mp3 [12:12] dwdorig: it says "(gtk-update-icon-cache:11523): GdkPixbuf-WARNING **: Cannot open pixbuf loader module file '/usr/lib/i386-linux-gnu/gdk-pixbuf-2.0/2.10.0/loaders.cache': No such file or directory [12:13] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gtk+2.0/+bug/1156927 ? [12:13] Ubuntu bug 1156927 in gtk+2.0 (Ubuntu) "Cannot open pixbuf loader module file '/usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/gdk-pixbuf-2.0/2.10.0/loaders.cache': No such file or directory" [Undecided,Confirmed] [12:13] mungbean: there is a google music app on ubuntu [12:14] Smells similar, doesn't it. [12:14] yes, but amazon cloud player support sucks [12:14] and you would have to download from amazon first [12:14] lornajane, That bug includes the output: [12:14] Try running the command [12:14] gdk-pixbuf-query-loaders > /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/gdk-pixbuf-2.0/2.10.0/loaders.cache [12:14] to make things work again for the time being. [12:15] dwdorig: yep, that bug is what I see. The command doesn't run though [12:15] I'm not sure that's safe to run *while* you're installing, anyway. [12:15] aptitude is giving me lots of "Setting up .." now so I'll try it again when it's done [12:16] lornajane: what are you doing with aptitude out of interest? [12:16] upgrading from what to what? [12:16] popey: that's a really good question [12:16] this machine was first installed with mint + LXDE [12:16] ruh-roh [12:16] lornajane, Oh, you're doing one of *those* upgrades... [12:16] i see where this is going [12:17] now it's really mint and XFCE, but with all the ubuntu sources included, so most of my packages seem to be ubuntu-esque for stuff that isn't X [12:17] popey, Hey, don't knock it. That's how I cross-installed Ubuntu in the first place. [12:18] mint released olivia for XFCE this week and I'm not on site for a couple of days so I thought I'd just go for it [12:18] Good luck with that ☻ [12:19] I really should install xubuntu but ... eh, just can't get enthusiastic about getting everything properly set up again [12:19] I use so many various tools, it takes literally months to get round and discover all the broken things [12:20] 6/3 [12:20] er [12:20] 2 [12:20] <3 [12:20] Yes, and more than 1, like 2 normally is. [12:20] lol [12:22] They don't call me Mr Helpful for nothing, you know. I have to pay them. [12:22] so dickie stallman is in the internet hall-of-fame now? [12:22] Gosh, so he is. I didn't even read that announcement. [12:23] never heard of it [12:23] And Jimmy Wales. [12:23] mungbean, It's an Internet Society thing. [12:24] nevr heard of that either :P [12:24] mungbean, They operate the IETF. [12:25] ok. and they have a list of people they like? [12:25] it was only established last year! [12:25] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_Hall_of_Fame [12:25] Will he ever read that he's in the internet hall of fame though? I didn't think he read anything on the internet (could just be an urban myth) [12:25] DJones, Right, he has people to do that kind of thing for him. [12:26] DJones: its not a myth [12:26] it was true at one point about the way he read his mail [12:26] http://stallman.org/stallman-computing.html [12:27] I guess that means he won't getting Amazon AutoRip albums downloaded into his Amazon drive then [12:27] we all knowpeople like him, i'm just surprised he managed to get so far [12:27] "When I use a search engine, it is always from a machine that isn't mine and that other people also use. I never identify myself to the site, of course." [12:27] he's searching for how to feed parrots [12:28] ☻ [12:28] you don't have to be a visionary to assume that ghcq and nsa are reading your unencrypted comms [12:28] * dwatkins wonders if Stallman's computer has a free BIOS as well [12:29] yes [12:29] he has a machine called ollong tea for something, its well documented [12:29] is the firmware for all the chips open as well? [12:30] I think it is now [12:30] well. He doesn't mind whether the firmware is free or not, he just doesn't use it if it's not free [12:30] so had no WiFi on his OLPC because that was non-free [12:31] rmspostcomments [12:31] bah [12:31] He is surprisingly accepting of non-free software, he just doesn't want to be part of the reason it is anywhere. [12:31] fair enough [12:32] 1rms [12:32] I agree with his stance on the OLPC. [12:32] !rms [12:32] popey: one tweet announcing its existence... [12:32] Sorry, I don't know anything about 'rms' [12:32] Oh! It's for auth only... [12:32] we have this convo a lot, maybe a factoid :P [12:33] I wonder if my old !gary still works :p [12:33] But RMS would rather a bot not know anything about him :) [12:33] aww [12:35] sigh, rms [12:35] I think I popped the cork with the genie getting out of the bottle [12:36] who knew one person could evoke so much conversation?! :-p [12:39] modelzone in administration :( [12:44] okay, I think I fixed that pixbuf problem. Let's see if I can reboot after all that === schwuk_away is now known as schwuk === Monotoko is now known as Guest74007 [13:09] ali1234: what ever happened to that wayland fork, soreau was maintaining wasn't he [13:09] northwood? [13:22] I'm stuck in a situation where a tool requires a package that aptitude doesn't know about, what can I do at this point? [13:23] google just knows about some instances of error messages regarding this missing package, not the package itself [13:25] hi lornajane :) [13:25] lornajane: is it available in a ppa? [13:25] bigcalm: how would I find out? I'm not getting hits when I search for it (it's gee-1.0) [13:27] lornajane: looks like it might be part of gir1.2-gee-1.0 [13:27] bigcalm: I am not sure how to explain that to the thing I'm trying to compile. Already commented bits out of the CMakeLists.txt :) [13:28] Ah [13:28] If you install that package, does the error go away? [13:28] it is installed [13:28] Oh [13:28] symlink? [13:28] I thought maybe it was doing a check for a wrong package name ... but I'm not sure how to stop that [13:29] I know rather little about make files :/ [13:29] yeah symlink maybe, not sure what would link to what [13:29] well I'm trying to compile Vala. Because there's a tool that exists in vala, and this is open source, right? [13:29] Can you find a file with 'gee' in the name using locate? [13:30] I seem to have libgee2 things and gir1.2-gee-1.0 things [13:31] Vala is available as a ppa [13:31] I think I have vala, I'm trying to compile something made of it [13:32] Oh, I see :) [13:32] I have done this before, but then I upgraded and the project updated and I need to recompile ... been putting this off for months [13:32] because I knew I'd be in dependency hell :( [13:32] Not procrastinating writing a talk? ;) [13:33] well, at some point I need to be able to compile my presenter tool, which is what this is [13:33] Ah, all related so that's okay :) [13:33] bigcalm: you don't write talks you speak them, man I thought you was the clever one ;) [13:33] I'm about 8 weeks from *needing* this tool to work, I'm only giving a couple of talks that I don't particularly need the presenter view for [13:33] 8 weeks is about as good as it gets, so the time is now [13:33] Fair enough [13:34] the tool is getting better but I do have some custom build bits in there so I need to be able to compile it [13:35] apparently I'm the only person in the world who ever starts not at the first slide of a presentation, for example [13:35] Re-order your slides? :) [13:36] bigcalm: it's the training courses, which can be several hundred slides and take a few days [13:36] Oh, that makes sense [13:36] vala is in the repo [13:36] dont need a ppa for that [13:36] given chunks of unity are written in vala... [13:36] Rich was jumping about all over the place when he did Symfony2 training [13:37] popey: I think I have vala, but in trying to compile some vala, I get missing packages - but we think the package names have changed is all [13:37] bigcalm: yeah, I'm like that too. Nothing is as tiring as a day's training - because I'm bouncing about and thinking and talking all day! [13:37] ah [13:37] superfun [13:38] how can i see what program is using a kernel module I am trying to unload? [13:38] Error: Module uvcvideo is in use [13:38] but I dont know what is using it [13:38] modprobe uvcvideo ? [13:39] i am trying to rmmod it [13:39] Actually, I think that might try to load it [13:39] modinfo maybe? [13:39] nope [13:39] lsmod will list what mods are being used by other mods [13:39] Can you see anything using /dev/video* ? [13:39] yeah, its being used by something else [13:39] lsof ? [13:40] ah yeah, lsof [13:40] aha [13:40] Skype? [13:40] chromium [13:40] Hangouts [13:40] yup [13:40] oof, just lost the entire chromium [13:40] Ouch [13:41] I hope my tabs come back when I open it [13:41] \o/ [13:44] i never understand when it says ..umm can't open the tabs, but i know what they were [13:45] click to open them [13:45] mungbean: my chrome does it I think in case something inside one of them is causing the crash [13:45] so it won't crash again until you ask it to [13:48] I tend to save my open tabs with cloud tab sometimes, just in case [13:48] progress! As in, I get a different error now :) [13:48] i just have chromium set to re-open whatever was open when it closed/died [13:48] Tab Cloud, even: https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/tabcloud/npecfdijgoblfcgagoijgmgejmcpnhof?hl=en [13:48] been burned once too many times by CCleaner [13:49] really? Ccleaner works well for me [13:50] I don't appear to have a volume icon/controller on my desktop. How do I get it back? [13:51] bigcalm: run alsamixer [13:51] lornajane: that's a CLI app [13:52] bigcalm: yes, but it's what I've been using since I don't have clickable audio controls [13:52] Ah :) [13:55] popey: but in your setup, if you loose one drive, do you loose all data? [13:55] lornajane: apparently this fixes itsudo apt-get install indicator-sound [13:55] * bigcalm logs out to find out [13:56] Azelphur: no, of course not [13:56] RAID1 [13:56] oh, raid 1 is mirror, right? [13:57] yeah, btrfs doesn't do RAID1 like hardware RAID or MD RAID [13:57] I see [13:57] but the effect is the same, data is spread over more than one disk [13:57] lornajane: that fixed it :) [13:57] yea, I was hoping to get a "one big partition" but if one drive fails, I just loose the data on that drive, type scenario [13:58] could probably get away with it doing something funky with symlinks tbh, haha [13:59] er, okay [13:59] why do you want to lose data? [13:59] popey: because I don't wanna fork out for 2x the drive space, and it's just tv shows which can be re-grabbed [13:59] loosing one drives worth of tv shows ain't so bad, loosing all drives worth of tv shows, bad :p [14:00] I need to do some tv show downloading.. I have zero footprint in the piracy market these days [14:00] I fancy watching babylon5 end-to-end again.. awesome series! [14:01] popey: i dunno, you can go ask him in #norwood or #northfield or something [14:01] norwood, that's it, I thought it was northwood [14:01] diddledan: I have a pretty cool setup, my I have a web panel where I can add TV shows and my system will auto-grab stuff as it comes out :P [14:01] much like wayland, it's not usable yet and doesn't look like it will e any time soon [14:01] how fast does raspberry pi encode h264 using it's super fancy co processor? [14:02] and the web service uses a recommendation engine based on what I've already watched, which is cool too [14:02] (and mir too lest you think i am being biased) [14:02] Azelphur: is it available for others? [14:02] diddledan: yup [14:02] I'm using flexget+trakt.tv [14:03] diddledan: http://trakt.tv/user/Azelphur/library/shows/all my library for example, :P [14:04] diddledan: babylon 5 is only available in super low quality... like VHS... they threw out all the 3D models and the live show was filmed on TV cameras, not film like TNG [14:04] :-( [14:04] that sucks [14:04] yeah but what can you do [14:04] I suppose it reduced the cost when they were filming it [14:04] yeah it was single camera [14:05] everything about it was really cheap... if they had the footage on film it would just make the makeup look bad [14:06] I was musing the other day over the transition between film and video before hi-def video - we've got like a decade of lost material where it was recorded direct to videotape where we can't improve the quality for hi-def video [14:06] a decade? more like 50 years [14:07] now with 4k around the corner it's only getting worse [14:07] it's not the end of the world [14:08] i mean if a show is good it does not matter [14:08] didn't realise TNG was film [14:08] it was, that's how they were able to do the HD re release recently [14:09] ah yes, of course [14:09] bingo! It built :) [14:09] well done, lornajane [14:09] I've written my own thing like the trakt.tv thing Azelphur [14:09] o.O [14:09] Your list is very much like my personal one :) [14:10] nice [14:12] not seen under the dome though [14:12] Actually hadn't heard of it [14:13] i always thought TNG was video [14:15] popey, Made by Paramount, who're a film company at heart. [14:21] popey: it looks like video because it was all edited on video and then converted to PAL from that [14:22] but they kept the film masters and so were able to remake it all [14:22] at massive cost [14:22] ahh [14:22] did they recoup that from the HD releases? [14:22] I imagine there's a fair few fans who would buy that stuff [14:23] popey: I though TNG was the startrek with picard at the helm [14:23] I didn't say it wasn't ☻ [14:24] no idea, but i guess they thought they would or they wouldn't have done it [14:25] is it OK to have an ldif file with lots of add: userid lines after the usual changetype:modify etc? [14:25] ali1234, the worst bit is all the B5 CG was rendered interlaced [14:25] haha lol [14:25] don't worry, it's yes [14:25] directhex, Right, it was NTSC only and all sorts. I seem to recall the showed it slightly letterboxed on C4. [14:26] interlace is great if you have an interlaced display otherwise it's a complete nightmare [14:26] the image quality on the main portions of B5 is actually okay, on the DVD releases. there are just occasional sections that look utterly dreadful [14:26] * TheOpenSourcerer is having an odd kind of day. Not seemingly able to focus on anything... Might go and mow the lawn instead. [14:26] typically sections with CG composited into the background [14:26] yeah it's watchable... it looks like the old TNG repeats on cheap satellite channels. you wouldn't accept it from a show made today but it is watchable [14:27] It was ground-breaking for its time, though. All those NewTek video toasters and stuff. [14:27] Still tragic that the best space scenes remain in 2001, though, which didn't have any CG at all. [14:27] does it still claim the title as the only space scifi that shows a toilet? [14:28] b5 I mean [14:28] i'm pretty sure red dwarf must have had a toilet in it at some point [14:28] also i don't remember the toilet in b5 [14:28] you'd hope so :-p [14:28] did HHGTTG not have a loo? [14:28] well, they teleported from a cubicle [14:29] 2001 also had a toilet scene, I think. [14:29] from within the ship powered by bistromathics [14:29] b5 felt real. real people. star trek was far too utopian to feel realistic [14:29] bistromathics? [14:29] bashrc: it is what it sounds like it's going to be [14:29] and then they say "oh, oops, it's not utopian at all" in their series set on a space station next to a jumpgate [14:29] erm, wormhole [14:29] whoops, how did i possibly make that error [14:30] bashrc: bistromaths is the mathematics of how many spits the waiter is going to put in your soup today [14:30] and related things [14:30] :-) [14:30] directhex: yeah i always say that TNG feels like propaganda and the truth is that star fleet is a lot more like the US millitary than the federation citizens know [14:30]