ali1234why doesn't make set $PWD when you do make -C?00:52
AlanBellmorning all06:24
AlanBello/ Laney07:09
AlanBelllots of saucy updates today for this laptop07:11
Laneylots of people getting on at market harborough07:12
Laneyi think i might lose my luxurious table all to myself07:12
AlanBellhow do I make a libreoffice presentation loop?07:12
AlanBellah, type = auto07:13
=== slvr_ is now known as slvr
brobostigongood morning everyone,08:15
MartijnVdShi brobostigon08:32
brobostigonmorning MartijnVdS08:32
MartijnVdSmy The Fault in Our Stars audiobook special edition arrived \o/08:33
brobostigondid you see seasick steve and john paul jones play glastonbury last night, MartijnVdS . you would have liked it.08:40
MartijnVdSbrobostigon: I didn't, I went to bed early08:44
brobostigonahm ohwell. i just found the video of it, on the bbc website, so it can be rewatched.08:45
MartijnVdSyeah, \o/ iplayer ;)08:45
MartijnVdSbrobostigon: watch out for Ed Harcourt today (tomorrow?)08:45
brobostigonit on the bbc glastonbury event page.08:45
brobostigonMartijnVdS: interesting, i will do,08:46
MartijnVdSbrobostigon: http://www.bbc.co.uk/events/ej58q9/acts/a8jq2m08:46
brobostigonMartijnVdS: thank you.08:47
SuperEngineer...or as I am currently doing... bbc.co.uk/events/ej58q908:49
SuperEngineermorning peeps08:49
SuperEngineerget-iplayer --get 347  [actually]08:50
* SuperEngineer hates getting card in yesyerday's post from sorting office - "The sender didn't pay the full postage - payment due £1.09"08:57
SuperEngineer...& they don't even mention originating postmark to see if it's worthwhile getting!08:57
SuperEngineer[knowing my luck - it's a speeding fine - cheapskates if so - and leave at sorting office]08:59
SuperEngineerSilverstone P3 on beeb209:02
SuperEngineerbbs - off to get snacks & beers ready for Qualifying & tommorow's F1 live coverage09:15
SuperMattdid anything weird happen with freenode a short while ago?10:06
brobostigonnot that i noticed, why?10:07
SuperMattmy irssi isn't connecting to either freenode or darkmyst10:07
SuperMattand my local irc can't connect to darkmyst right now10:08
brobostigonwell, you are connected here, so there might have been a network interruption with the server you were trying to connect to?10:08
brobostigondns issue ?10:08
SuperMattI'm thinking dns cos I can't get to www.darkmyst.org right now10:09
SuperMattbut it's weird, it can't be my ISP because my server and localhost are on different networks (I think)10:09
SuperMattwell, it is quite weird because I can't even whois my server's ip address10:11
brobostigonwhat dns servers are you using?10:11
SuperMattthe standard ones for my isp10:11
SuperMattI think I'm gonna add and
brobostigonah, ok. i have my setup here, to tell all connected machines to use google dns.10:12
SuperMatthmmm... I'm not sure how to get my server to start using I've added it /etc/dhcp/dhclient.conf, but when I restart networking, it still uses the old one10:16
brobostigoni use hostapd here.10:16
brobostigonthe dns here is set inside that, that it gives out to clients.10:17
SuperMattah, I need to reboot that server anyway10:18
popeypip pip10:40
=== ^2fC is now known as HoT|2fC^
* penguin42 hands czajkowski a tissue10:58
* penguin42 gets bugged into upgrading my Dad's ancient machine - looks like it'll only boot off CD12:30
penguin42I think I'll try booting off an Ubuntu server cd12:31
* penguin42 fails to find the md5sum or signed hash of the iso on the download page12:43
BigRedSI don't think I've ever checked the md5sum of an ISO before using it12:44
penguin42ah, so you don't know if someone has injected something nasty12:44
BigRedSnah, but if I get the md5sum from the same place that wouldn't be particularly reassuing in any case12:45
penguin42BigRedS: But if it's in a signed file with a signature tyable back to the public key tree then you can12:46
penguin42BigRedS: actually, here's the daily set - http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-server/daily/current/  see there is a MD5SUMS (and SHA256SUMS) and a SHA256SUMS.gpg12:47
BigRedSoh yeah, there generally is in the dir, it's just not linked to from the pretty download page12:48
penguin42problem is finding the dir - it's not in the download URL - and I still can't find this one12:50
penguin42ahha http://releases.ubuntu.com/precise/12:53
AzelphurAnyone what channel would be good to talk about xrandr stuff?12:54
penguin42ubuntu-x ?12:56
Azelphurgood idea12:56
penguin42out of interest what was the question?13:55
awilkinsWait, that was the answer14:03
MartijnVdSWow, it's obvious the freeradius mailing list does not have a CoC14:19
BigRedSangry sarcasm is a required feature of a tech mailing list, isn't it?14:22
MartijnVdSBigRedS: this is "Read the docs or I'll unsubscribe you"14:23
penguin42sarcasm? On a mailing list? Never....14:23
MartijnVdSBigRedS: and then "No really READ THE DOCS"14:23
BigRedSoh, that's not even no CoC, that's bad moderators, surely?14:23
MartijnVdSwell if you're one of the main project guys..14:24
MartijnVdSit's not helping me find answers to my questions very well ;)14:24
StevenRMartijnVdS: what's the problem?14:25
MartijnVdSbecause, sure it's documented.. by I need a map :)14:25
MartijnVdSStevenR: I want to know if there's something that works like "Expiration" (which disables an account after the set time), but for *enabling* it only after a certain time14:25
MartijnVdSI'd call it "not-valid-before"14:25
StevenRMartijnVdS: i.e. you can only get accepted by the freeradius server after 9am?14:26
StevenRMartijnVdS: Ubuntu? (Which version?)14:27
MartijnVdSStevenR: it's for camping guests, who get login tickets that should only work during the time they've reserved14:27
MartijnVdSStevenR: 12.0414:27
MartijnVdSI could use a second table/database and only export to the "real" tables when it's time14:28
MartijnVdSbut that's a hassle and if it's avoidable.. well ;)14:28
MartijnVdSoh, it looks like the 'Expiration' module should be able to do it, with some custom SQL, maybe14:29
StevenRMartijnVdS: hmmm. not sure off hand. Just spinning up a VM (I managed the freeradius box at work)14:33
MartijnVdSStevenR: I like that the default configs refer to my home town (where Cistron, my old employer) was based, who wrote lots of RADIUS stuff ;)14:37
penguin42right, dads old machine mostly upgraded - Ubuntu Server+Mate desktop15:11
SuperEngineerjust realised I'm done to my last .5GB on U1 - but it seems to be enough for needs so far15:12
penguin42installing old machines is a PITA; won't boot off USB, or it's DVD drive, and it turns out it's CDROM drive was slightly but not completely knackered15:13
SuperEngineerpenguin42: what you need is a pitta bread [PITA/pitta - get it?] - stuff it in the drive & let it know what you think!15:21
MartijnVdSalmost, but not quite, entirely knackered16:26
penguin42me too, from doing nothing - I think maybe a bit of a cold16:27
bigcalmHello peeps :)17:50
penguin42Hey bc17:53
bigcalmEep, almost time for the cinema. Best have some grub18:24
popeyWe went to see Dispicable Me 2 today with the kids18:27
bigcalmThat's what Hayley and I are off to watch now :D18:28
ali1234why doesn't pngcrush support reading png data from stdin?18:46
ali1234answer: becqause libpng requires that ftell works on the input file stream18:52
* penguin42 almost feels sorry enough to tell Currys/pcworld all their adds go to http.com19:13
Laneyhoooooooooooooooooooooooooomeward bound19:30
penguin42you're sitting on a railway station with a ticket for your destination?19:36
DJonesHmmh, Homeward Bound.. A song written at a nearby railway station19:36
Laneyoh god19:51
Laneyjust accidently played music out of my laptop to the carriage19:51
Laneywas listening to it through the phone19:51
popeyi did that once, when my headphones weren't plugged in fully19:51
Laneynobody said a word19:51
popey"man, this is quiet" *turns up volume*19:51
Laneymust have been a good 10 minutes19:51
SuperEngineertalking of which - BBC coverage of Glastonbury continues now [on red button 301]20:02
Laneybedford: city of dreams20:05
YaManicKillso this is a fun issue20:14
YaManicKilljust realised my server is still on 8.0420:14
YaManicKillnow, when I try and upgrade to 10.04, it doesn't seem to work20:15
YaManicKillbut I thought 10.04 server was supported till 201520:15
penguin42YaManicKill: Interesting you say that, I was trying to update my Dad's 11.04 to 12.04 and the updater couldn't find an upgrade20:16
penguin42YaManicKill: I think if you installed a 10.04 it would upgrade, but yeh I wonder what the upgrade time frame is20:16
penguin42I'd expected to be able to upgrade 11.04 to 12.0420:17
LaneyIt goes a bit south when the release is EOL20:17
penguin42nod, pity you'd kind of hope you'd be able to get out of EOL jail to a current in support one20:17
YaManicKillI think you *need* to upgrade from 1 to the next, or 1 LTS to the next20:18
=== GentileBen is now known as Genti|eBen
YaManicKillwhich would mean 11.04 would have to go via 11.10, which is now EOL20:18
YaManicKillI think they take the repos offline when it's EOL20:18
Laneywell, you can do that if you use old-releases.ubuntu.com in sources.list20:18
YaManicKillbut, 10.04 server isn't EOL till 201520:18
Laneynot sure if update-manager will help you20:18
=== Genti|eBen is now known as GentileBen
penguin42YaManicKill: Yeh although I don't quite get why if it's EOLd why it still won't update to newer20:18
YaManicKilloh wait...I think I've figured out my issue20:20
YaManicKillwonky DNS servers :-P20:20
YaManicKillignore me ;-)20:20
penguin42sure - did someone hear something?20:20
YaManicKilloh, more than just DNS..I forgot I had a static IP on there, and I've moved house so my gateway has changed20:21
YaManicKillI am such a failure of a geek20:22
SuperEngineerfreeview 301 - primal Scream live at Glastonbury - now20:25
ali1234what does it mean when 'ls -l __pycache__' says this: -????????? ? ? ? ?            ? textures.cpython-33.pyc20:53
ali1234and i can't cd into the directory or delete the files because permission denies20:53
ali1234and why do i have a bad feeling that the filesystem is knackered?20:54
ali1234nvm, i must have accidentally chmod u-x it somehow20:57
StevenRMartijnVdS: what about the logintime module?21:06
StevenRMartijnVdS: see /etc/freeradius/modules/logintime21:07
mgdmhi popey21:46
Laneywhy the left paren22:00
mgdmI said hi to popey and then he left :P (though he appears to have since returned)22:01
Laneythat guy can't stay away22:02
* popey goes to be mr taxi man picking up the inlaws22:09
AzelphurHey folks, set up a VPN, got two Ubuntu machines (12.10 and 13.04), my 13.04 connects to the VPN, works fine, my friends 12.10 connects, get allocated an IP, and can't see anything on the network, at all22:10
ali1234routing issues probably22:13
Azelphurali1234: anything specific to check?22:13
ali1234route -n22:13
ali1234i'm going to need to see a large amount of information about the networks involved in order to debug this22:14
Azelphuryea, will get it for you, just getting him reconnected to my VPN again22:14
ali1234the LAN configuration of each machine, the VPN network, route -n from every machine involved...22:15
ali1234a diagram of how the topolofy is set out would be helpful too22:15
Azelphurali1234: I think I just realised the obvious, his network is 192.168.1.* and my network is 192.168.1.* too22:16
Azelphurso I bet that's why22:16
Azelphurali1234: how would I work around that? XD22:17
ali1234well it should not really matter as long as the VPN is not 192.168.1.* as well22:17
ali1234it depends what you are trying to do though22:18
Azelphurali1234: the VPN is hosted in my router, and the "Server IP" is set to
ali1234that does not mean much to me22:18
ali1234i mean that could mean anything22:18
ali1234what are you actually trying to do?22:18
Azelphurali1234: well, I'm trying to get him connected to my VPN so he can access my fileserver22:19
ali1234what is the VPN IP address of the fileserver?22:19
Azelphurthe fileserver isn't connected to the VPN, it's just on my local network22:19
Azelphurthe idea is that by connecting to the VPN, it brings you into my local network22:19
MonsterKillerrouter -n: http://pastebin.com/SP7mmYyD22:19
ali1234well then how do you expect him to be able to connect to it, if it isn';t on the VPN?22:19
Azelphurali1234: there ya go ^22:19
Azelphurali1234: it works fine from my phone on 3g, I've streamed stuff and I can communicate with it fine22:20
ali1234yeah that's messed up22:20
ali1234the VPN using 192.168.1.* is not a good idea22:20
AzelphurI see22:20
Azelphurwhat would you suggest?22:21
ali1234but the underlying issue here is VPN isn't quite as simple as you think22:21
AzelphurI mean in theory I could just allocate some other address space, but that doesn't stop that address space being used in whatever network I'm connected to22:22
ali1234yes, that is a problem22:23
ali1234often with corporate VPNs they run two on different IP ranges for this reason22:23
ali1234but you probably don't need that22:24
ali1234just use 176 addreses, nobody ever uses those22:24
ali1234i mean 17222:24
AzelphurI see, sounds like a plan22:25
ali1234you can probably even get away with a high 192 range22:25
Azelphurso basically everything I want to be externally accessible I should have connected to the VPN22:25
Azelphurand set up my VPN to allocate 172s?22:25
ali1234that is the easy way to do it22:25
Azelphureasy way is cool.22:25
ali1234you can try to join together the networks using routing but that is hard and you will have more problems with addressing clashes22:26
ali1234in this case if you did that one of you would have to renumber their network22:26
ali1234so you don't want to do that22:26
Azelphurali1234: yea, I want something that works in as many networking scenarios as possible really22:26
AzelphurI wanna be able to access it while I'm "out and about"22:26
ali1234so yeah22:27
ali1234put a VPN client on your file server and join it to he network22:27
ali1234make sure VPN is using some obscure address range22:27
ali1234and then you should be good22:27
Azelphurrighto, ty :)22:27
Azelphurali1234: another interesting conundrum, what I usually do is have a hostname, "server" which points at my server, and all my stuff is configured to connect to that, any idea how on earth I'd make that work?22:39
Azelphurbecause when I'm inside the VPN, it obviously needs to be the 172 address, but when I'm at home, it needs to be the 192 address22:39
Azelphurunless, I connect to my local VPN, all the time, even when at home22:40
ali1234that is the easiest way22:40
Azelphurjust stay connected to it all the time?22:40
Azelphurfair enough xD22:40
ali1234you can also do it through DNS22:40
Azelphuroh yea?22:40
ali1234you will need to run DNS servers for that though22:41
Azelphuryea, meh with that22:41
Azelphurwill just configure Ubuntu to VPN on startup I guess22:41
Azelphurali1234: making more progress, so I've got everyone connected on 172.16.77.x, I can ping MonsterKiller (.4), but I can't ping my server (.2), any ideas?23:00
Azelphurali1234: mtr to MonsterKiller (.4), 1. DD-WRT, 2. ???23:01
ali1234route -n23:01
Azelphurroute -n on server (.2) http://pastebin.com/g1disMYZ23:02
ali1234what is the second line23:02
Azelphurali1234: that IP is my routers public IP, dunno what significance it has.23:03
ali1234it should not do anything23:04
ali1234anyway you only have a route to
ali1234so pings will never come back23:04
ali1234nor any other traffic23:04
ali1234if you log in to dd-wrt you can ping everyone23:04
ali1234what is your route -n?23:05
ali1234the question is do you even want everyone on the VPN to access each other's machines23:05
Azelphurali1234: yes, I want everyone to be able to talk to everyone23:06
ali1234ok then you need the VPN server to tell the clients to add default network route23:06
ali1234just for the 172 network though23:06
ali1234you have to watch out for classful network though23:07
ali1234what vpn client are you using?23:07
Azelphurali1234: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/3832397/screenshots/2013/Jun/2013-06-30-000706_893x626_scrot.png any idea how I'd do that given those options?23:07
ali1234PPTP... hahahahaha23:08
ali1234oh well23:08
Azelphurali1234: I have a OpenVPN option23:08
ali1234it might be a setting on the client23:08
ali1234in fact it probably is23:08
ali1234i bet monsterkiller set his end up using network manager23:09
ali1234by default that will route all of your traffic through the VPN23:09
ali1234which you do not want23:10
ali1234however it will make it look like it is working23:10
Azelphurali1234: yea, everything is set up network manager23:10
ali1234what about on the fileserver though?23:11
Azelphurjust did sudo pon home nodeattach23:11
ali1234so yeah23:11
ali1234check the ipv4 setting in NM23:12
ali1234click the routes button23:12
ali1234look at the options23:12
ali1234"only se for resources on the network"23:12
ali1234"ignore automatic routes"23:12
ali1234the first one will prevent all your traffic going through the VPN so turn it on23:12
ali1234the second one will make it so that you don't get any automatic routes at all which is the situation you have on the fileserver23:13
ali1234what's your route -n on your desktop?23:13
ali1234btw, automatic routes don't come from the server with PPTP, it uses classful networking to guess what it should be23:14
Azelphurtrying to get that, difficult as my laptop isn't connected to the net :P23:14
ali1234why not?23:14
AzelphurI have no idea23:14
ali1234i'll tell you why: because all your traffic is going over the VPN23:15
ali1234but the VPN won't allow you to access the net23:15
ali1234so check those NM settings23:15
ali1234also observe routing table before and after23:15
Azelphurali1234: http://pastebin.com/qcAiajYy before and after23:18
ali1234hmm well restart the vpn i guess, because it didn't take23:18
ali1234oh wait yes it did23:19
ali1234look at the first line23:19
Azelphuryea, it has internet connectivity now23:19
Azelphurand just like the file server, it can only talk to .1 and nothing else23:19
ali1234via 17223:19
ali1234try on local23:20
ali1234you have a link local IP on the VPN23:20
ali1234so server.local should get to your server23:20
ali1234both on and off the VPN23:20
ali1234if you set up avahi that is23:20
Azelphuryup I can talk to the server locally23:20
ali1234yeah thats not what i meant23:21
ali1234can you ping server.local?23:21
ali1234install avahi-daemon on the server23:21
Azelphuralthough I can ping my desktop.local from my laptop (which is connected to the VPN)23:21
ali1234avahi is only installed on desktop by default23:22
Azelphurso I'm guessing .local stuff does work23:22
ali1234it's te best thing ever23:22
ali1234you never have to deal with IPs again23:22
Azelphurcool :D23:22
Azelphurazelphur-server.local now responds23:22
ali1234now get monsterkiller to do the same NM config23:23
ali1234he should be able to ping azelphur-server.local too23:23
Azelphurali1234: aww, looks like he's gone to sleep23:24
Azelphurbut I can get external to my network and test with my 3g phone23:24
Azelphurali1234: unable to ping azelphur-server.local :(23:26
ali1234route -n23:26
ali1234well looks like you'll have to add manual routes23:29
AzelphurI can do that, I like having azelphur-server.local, that means I can just fill in all my domain boxes with that, and be in/out of the VPN and have everything work.23:30
ali1234i'm not sure why link local keeps moving around23:30
Azelphurali1234: I disconnected from the VPN and it still doesn't work, perhaps it's just having a funny, will reboot.23:33
ali1234ah, i remember23:35
Azelphurthere, responds off the VPN now23:35
ali1234windows uses classful networks to guess the netmask23:35
ali1234but network manager does not23:35
ali1234so you have to make the vpn server tell the netmask23:35
AzelphurI see23:35
Azelphurali1234: any idea how to do that?23:36
ali1234implementation specific23:36
Azelphurhttp://www.dd-wrt.com/wiki/index.php/PPTP_Server_Configuration there's a lot of info on here, I don't have too much idea where I'm going with it23:37
ali1234that page is rubbish23:41
ali1234nobody on it has any idea what they are doing23:41
Azelphurhaha, yea, I did notice everyone seemed to be taking the approach of trying all possible options until something works sort of xD23:41
ali1234"Select  Basic Setup -> Advanced Routing "23:42
ali1234do that23:42
ali1234actually that is probably no use23:43
ali1234yeah, no23:44
ali1234can you shell into dd-wrt?23:44
Azelphuror at least I used to be able to, now it just says connection closed. :(23:46
ali1234it says here you can use the same subnet for the vpn as your main network...23:48
Azelphurali1234: so that means I should be allocating 192.168.* addresses?23:50
penguin42ali1234: You might want to if say you are using a laptop to connect to your vpn from random places and the random place you happen to be connecting from uses the same range23:51
Azelphurpenguin42: that's been the entire problem I've had today23:51
AzelphurI can't connect to my VPN because the place I happened to be connecting from used the same range23:51
penguin42Azelphur: It's really difficult because you still need to get to your router23:51
Azelphurwell, I can connect to the VPN, it's just useless :p23:52
penguin42Azelphur: Put a VM on your machine, make the IP range inside the VM completely different, run the VPN software inside the machine23:52
Azelphurthat is an awfully lame workaround xD23:52
penguin42oh yeh - it'll work though :-)23:53
ali1234well, i give up23:56
Azelphuroh well, gonna call it a night for now, gotta be up early tomorrow, no VPN in London for me23:56
Azelphuryea XD23:56
ali1234you're going to have to set manual routes in network manager to make it work23:56
Azelphurali1234: can I ping you tomorrow for info on that? :)23:57
Azelphurwould be nice to have it working23:57
AzelphurI could also be totally lame and just go with the setup I had before23:57
Azelphurbut move my entire network to 172.* lol23:57
Azelphurbut that's bad23:57
Azelphuranyway yea, nn :)23:57

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