[10:59] <zequence> OvenWerks: I think we can override DE settings from some simple debian files, when installing with out metas
[10:59] <zequence> I'm still not sure how the sessions become choosable in the login window. If you have some insight in this, that would be nice
[11:00] <zequence> as for artwork, and other stuff, it seems we can install any DE, not having to keep our own seed file for it, then override settings
[11:01] <zequence> a ubuntustudio-desktop-kde could depend entirely on the kde desktop as is, or ubuntustudio-desktop-kubuntu, and then, we just override some things
[11:02] <zequence> this would mean the least amount of maintenance required
[11:02] <zequence> sorry, I always seem to write a lot of confusing stuff..
[11:03] <zequence> what I meant was, a ubuntustudio-desktop-kde, or ubuntustudio-desktop-kubuntu package could depend entirely on the kde desktop + ubuntustudio-default-settings, and we just override some stuff using some debian packaging magic
[11:04] <zequence> so, we don't need our own seed file at all for any of the desktops really, if we want
[11:04]  * smartboyhw agrees with zequence 
[11:05] <smartboyhw> Overriding some stuff, this basically means Breaks: and Replaces:
[11:05] <smartboyhw> in debian/control
[11:06] <zequence> actually, I'm talking about overriding things like gsettings
[11:06] <zequence> artwork particularly
[11:07] <zequence> for Unity, I'd very much like to disable the lens stuff, that is enabled by default. Things like that
[11:07] <Mish> yes that'd be very much preferred
[11:10] <zequence> smartboyhw: but, overriding depends could be something we want to do too in some cases
[11:11] <zequence> like, any dependency on linux-generic, if such exists
[12:54] <smartboyhw> zequence, Breaks: linux-generic :P
[13:32] <madeinkobaia> Hi fellows.
[13:34] <smartboyhw> Hi madeinkobaia 
[13:35] <madeinkobaia> Hi smartboyhw : )
[13:40] <Mish> hello madeinkobaia
[13:44] <madeinkobaia> Hi Mish : )
[14:26] <Mish> madeinkobaia: I have updated my branch of the ubuntustudio-icon-theme. You could take a look and make improvements if necessary.
[14:26] <Mish> https://code.launchpad.net/~mishrashubham2007
[14:27] <Mish> oh and others can take a look as well :D
[14:38] <zequence> Mish: black and white icons?
[14:38] <Mish> yes
[14:38] <madeinkobaia> Mish: Thanks for asking. Its simple and nice. Now I should have an overview of the icon set for have an opinion. Did you used Inkscape or work on Gimp only ?
[14:38] <Mish> Inkscape only
[14:38] <madeinkobaia> Mish: Ok.
[14:39] <Mish> zequence: Tried to keep with the elementary-dark theme
[14:39] <Mish> All the panel icons were B/W
[14:40] <zequence> Ok, but we aren't using the dark theme, are we?
[14:41] <zequence> Also, is there something missing in any discussion on the mail list?
[14:42] <Mish> we aren't? Oh ok, I had elementary-Xubuntu-dark enabled by default on my 12.04 install
[14:42] <Mish> haven't been keeping up with 13.04 though
[14:43] <Mish> zequence: something missing in the mailing list? I don't get the context....
[14:44] <zequence> Mish: some posts look like they are a continuation of a discussion, but there doesn't seem to be a start of it
[14:44] <zequence> might be me who is missing something
[14:45] <Mish> zequence: I don't get properly threaded discussions on my mail client either. Some replies start of as new threads. Don't know why that's happening
[14:46] <Mish> zequence: btw what theme are we using in the current ISO?
[14:47] <zequence> I'd just like to make it clear that any change in something artwork related things need to pass through madeinkobaia
[14:47] <zequence> not sure if he has been included in discussions so far
[14:47] <zequence> I know OvenWerks (len) was doing work on that by himself before, but now that we have an art lead, things are different
[14:48] <zequence> I haven't followed this work very closely myself, as I've been busy, so I don't know the motivation or the reason for the changes
[14:48] <Mish> Cool, I've already asked madeinkobaia to look at it
[14:49] <Mish> zequence: what changes?
[14:52] <zequence> Mish: I was referring to the icons you are submitting
[14:54] <Mish> zequence: Oh ok. From what I've been told, the icons being currently used in the menus are from different applications and Len wanted independent ones, and also with a somewhat unified look
[14:55] <zequence> I think all of that is fine, and it is good of Len to let you know how the development process works, and so on, but madeinkobaia should really be a part of the discussion
[14:55] <smartboyhw> Yeah, how's Ubuntu Studio's development going actually?
[14:55]  * smartboyhw has been too busy at Kubuntu.
[14:56] <zequence> which he is now, of course
[14:56] <Mish> yes, hence the note to him since I was on IRC today
[14:58] <zequence> so, we just need to figure out what we want, what we don't want, and so on. and, might be good to discuss things before hand, so that people don't work at something which ends up not being accepted
[14:58] <Mish> yeah
[14:58] <smartboyhw> Utilize the mailing list as much as possible, that helps:)
[14:59] <smartboyhw> I mean, madeinkobaia isn't always on IRC.
[14:59] <zequence> I
[14:59] <zequence> sorry
[14:59] <smartboyhw> ?
[14:59] <Mish> ?
[14:59] <zequence> I'm not sure how the icon theme is packaged yet, so I need to have a look at that myself
[14:59] <zequence> (the ' symbol is right next to the ENTER button)
[15:00] <Mish> oh ok cool
[15:01] <smartboyhw> zequence, this is what makes Ubuntu great: Arguments http://lwn.net/Articles/556517/
[15:01] <smartboyhw> Look at the comments and you'll understand:P
[15:02] <zequence> I don't have anything against MIR myself, but then, I don't know the technical problems involved - which you don't if you don't know your stuff
[15:02] <zequence> so, most peoples opinions about this are probably not going to be qualified
[15:03] <zequence> I think the biggest source of irritation is about Canonical not involving the community enough in the early development process and decisions therein
[15:03] <madeinkobaia> smartboyhw: Mish: I am permanently on call by mail or other ways, all the infos for contact me are on our wiki page : https://wiki.ubuntu.com/madeinkobaia
[15:03] <smartboyhw> madeinkobaia, :)
[15:03] <smartboyhw> zequence, http://dreamstudio.dickmacinnis.com/dreamstudio-unity-12-04-3-official-release/
[15:04] <zequence> but, if by chance if MIR is technically the best choice, or as good choice as any of the other alternatives, I don't see why not everyone should support it and get involved in developing it
[15:04] <smartboyhw> As a Kubuntu member and also a Ubuntu member at the same time (directly), I think it would be great if Canonical can actually HELP Kubuntu make Mir possible
[15:04] <smartboyhw> zequence, the problem is KDE upstream denied any talk about Mir.
[15:04] <smartboyhw> Making the whole thing worse.
[15:04] <zequence> smartboyhw: Does that seem wise to you?
[15:05] <smartboyhw> zequence, what seems wise?
[15:05] <zequence> To deny any talk about MIR
[15:05] <Mish> madeinkobaia: ok thanks. You are subscribed to the UBS mailing  lists right?
[15:05] <smartboyhw> zequence, no.
[15:06] <smartboyhw> Very unwise.
[15:06] <smartboyhw> I mean, sure one might say that it adds another layer to KWin (KDE's Window space), in this case, mgrasselin, the main KWin developer.
[15:07] <smartboyhw> zequence, they are saying that since it's a single distribution thing, they aren't gonna add it.
[15:07] <madeinkobaia> Mish: For sure.
[15:08] <Mish> madeinkobaia: ok cool
[15:08] <madeinkobaia> Mish: No worries : )
[15:09] <zequence> smartboyhw: if it is, and can't be applied to anything else than Ubuntu, then I think the argument is valid
[15:09] <zequence> if it can be packaged for other distros, and forked if needed, it's a technology that can be used
[15:10] <zequence> if it's good, that would be worth doing
[15:58] <OvenWerks> zequence: I agree.
[15:59] <OvenWerks> I think kubuntu/kde is looking at the track record of upstart for example, but I think that is a poor compairison
[16:02] <OvenWerks> Speaking about upstart, Ubuntu is looking at using upstart as the session manager... not sure if that is the right term really, but to start all of the appliactions/applets at login time.
[16:04] <OvenWerks> Anyway, KDE has seeen that becasue the rest of the linux world was working on another solution to replace init (systemd) they have rejected upstart.
[16:06] <OvenWerks> KDE has spent a lot of effort getting ready for wayland and does not wish to redo the work for one distro. MIR may prove itself better, but if so it will be "down the road".
[16:09] <OvenWerks> New projects take time to gather acceptance, even when they are clearly better. Even with accpetance, implementation takes time. I was around for the OSS->ALSA transition...
[16:18] <zequence> OvenWerks: I'm taking a look at ubiquity right now. Documenting what I find here later https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/Ubiquity#preview
[16:19] <zequence> I just proposed a merge to replace the default background, which is done in the source for "ubiquity"
[16:19] <zequence> I'll be collecting anything important for us to know on that page
[16:20] <zequence> the default background for when you do the install, and skip try the live OS
[16:42] <OvenWerks> Ya, we don't have one.
[16:42] <OvenWerks> I am guessing other flavours have just included their own with the same name.
[16:43] <zequence> OvenWerks: 
[16:43] <zequence> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-installer/ubiquity/trunk/view/head:/bin/ubiquity-dm#L308
[16:43] <zequence> it's still the Macinnis one. I'm proposing a merge with the current one first. We still need a new wallpaper for 13.10, so we'll be changing it again probably
[17:31] <holstein> !proaudio