[14:55] <bdrung> !dmb-ping
[14:55] <bdrung> meeting in five minutes
[14:58] <tumbleweed> right
[14:58] <tumbleweed> stgraber: are you around to chair?
[14:59] <stgraber> tumbleweed: I'm around and can chair but I have a meeting in exactly an hour so we won't be able to go overtime
[14:59] <Laney> sounds excellent to me
[15:00] <tumbleweed> any excuse to avoid overtime meetings is good :)
[15:00] <stgraber> #startmeeting DMB meeting
[15:00] <meetingology> Meeting started Mon Jul  1 15:00:44 2013 UTC.  The chair is stgraber. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
[15:00] <meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
[15:00] <stgraber> #topic Review of previous action items
[15:01] <stgraber> everyone read and amend http://pad.ubuntu.com/dmb-ppu-membership-proposal, and sign up for the implementation tasks
[15:01] <tumbleweed> that was going to go to the list
[15:01] <tumbleweed> but it didn't
[15:01] <tumbleweed> come bakc to it after applications? or really take it to the list this time?
[15:01] <Laney> I amended it earlier in the hope that we could talk about it today
[15:03] <barry> let's take care of the applicant first
[15:03] <Laney> yes!
[15:03] <stgraber> laney to update DD-PPU process to say that any ubuntu-dev is eligible
[15:03] <stgraber> so that was done apparently
[15:03] <Laney> 'take care'...
[15:04] <Laney> yes, yes it was
[15:04] <stgraber> tumbleweed to add louis-bouchard to universe-contributors
[15:04] <tumbleweed> done
[15:04] <stgraber> good
[15:04] <stgraber> #topic MOTU Applications - Robie Basak
[15:04] <stgraber> rbasak: ping
[15:04] <rbasak> Hello!
[15:04] <stgraber> that application is also for server packageset, so we'll vote twice
[15:05] <stgraber> rbasak: can you introduce yourself and your application(s)?
[15:05] <rbasak> Sure! I'm Robie Basak. I've been working for Canonical on their server team for almost two years. I'm applying for MOTU and ubuntu-server-dev. My application is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RobieBasak/ServerDeveloperApplication
[15:08]  * Daviey is of the opinion that rbasak's application is long since overdue, and he's fed up of his sponsors nagging him to do it himself.
[15:09] <Laney> :-)
[15:09] <stgraber> so once you are a MOTU you'll be able to upload any universe packages, when around a milestone such as the upcoming alpha-2, can you simply upload any universe package or are there extra things you should check?
[15:10] <rbasak> If the package is seeded for a flavour that participates in the alpha, I will need to make sure that the upload doesn't interfere with a spin/respin. I'd check with #ubuntu-release in this case.
[15:11] <stgraber> ok, how can you check if a package is seeded by a participating flavour?
[15:11] <rbasak> The seeded-in-ubuntu command will tell me that.
[15:12] <bdrung> rbasak: looking at http://askubuntu.com/questions/247479/how-do-i-check-whether-a-ppa-package-has-been-tampered-with/247489#247489, are you aware of the tools pull-lp-source and debdiff?
[15:13] <rbasak> bdrung: yes, but there are specific reasons I didn't use those for my answer.
[15:13] <bdrung> okay
[15:14] <rbasak> pull-lp-source will pull from the development version, whereas I thought that people using that answer would be more likely to want to compare against, say, precise, or some upstream source directly. So I didn't feel that it was appropriate to use pull-lp-source there as I thought it was too specific.
[15:15] <rbasak> And again to compare an upstream source against (say) a PPA package, then debdiff won't work as there would be no upstream dsc.
[15:15] <barry> rbasak: hi.  i have a question about working with upstreams.  how engaged are you with debian and upstreams to forward bugs and fixes?  e.g. is this one a candidate for upstreaming?  https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mailman/1:2.1.15-1ubuntu1  (wonder how that one caught me eye :)
[15:16] <stgraber> rbasak: pull-lp-source <package> <series-pocket or version> :)
[15:16] <rbasak> Well that one's a good example I think. In that case upstream is on Launchpad, so I filed upstream by adding the bug task. The dep3 headers reveal all ;)
[15:17] <barry> rbasak: nice, thank you!
[15:17] <rbasak> stgraber: sure, but it doesn't work for example when comparing a pristine upstream tarball to a PPA.
[15:17] <rbasak> For Debian involvement, I usually file as far upstream as possible, and notify Debian if I think it would be of particular use to cherry-pick instead of waiting for a new upstream release.
[15:18] <stgraber> rbasak: sure, was just commenting about the "pull-lp-source will pull from the development version" bit
[15:18] <rbasak> I did that for an evolution/libical bug, for example.
[15:18] <rbasak> stgraber: ah OK. Yeah, I use that quite a bit.
[15:18] <barry> rbasak: thanks
[15:19] <Laney> rbasak: About your "What I like least in Ubuntu" — who do you think would curate such a list?
[15:19] <Laney> It sounds a bit like dholbach's harvest tool - do you know about that?
[15:20] <rbasak> I've seen the harvest tool. I think that's the inverse of what I'm saying, though. harvest seems useful to me from an Ubuntu developer's perspective - for stuff that might be worth bundling in with an upload, for example.
[15:21] <Laney> I think it's supposed to be both of those things
[15:22] <rbasak> For non- Ubuntu developers, they just have a goal. Eg. there's a patch, and they'd like it in. We know about SRU policy, when we might introduce a delta vs. file upstream, etc, but outsiders don't necessarily know that. So I'd like some documentation that is indexed by task like that.
[15:22] <Laney> So it's more about documentation than creating task lists?
[15:22] <rbasak> Right. Completely about documentation, not about creating task lists at all.
[15:23] <Laney> I see; I read it a bit differently
[15:23] <Laney> Do you imagine you'll work on it or is it a wishlist? :-)
[15:24] <Laney> I imagine it's something that would live on developer.ubuntu.com quite nicely
[15:24] <bdrung> rbasak: have you talked with dholbach about improving the documentation?
[15:25] <bdrung> i think it could fit into the packaging guide
[15:25] <rbasak> Here's an example: bug 1160177 - 51 people affected, there's a patch, but no sign of anyone working to get it into Ubuntu. As a MOTU I'd be able to help, but I'm sure some of those people in the bug could do it too, but there's no single place to point them to that'll show them the SRU policy, how to look upstream, etc.
[15:25] <Laney> The packaging guide has this knowledge base idea but it's currently a bit lower level than that
[15:26] <Laney> I'm sure some contributed articles would be well received
[15:26] <rbasak> In that specific example I'm trying to take a technical friend who is affected through the steps - though nothing's on the bug yet.
[15:27] <rbasak> I will work on it, but expect it to go pretty slowly. I hope to gain some experience in finding out how things work first. Maybe some blog posts first, see how they go down, and then suggest amendments to the official documentation (packaging guide, developer section on wiki or ubuntu.com, etc)
[15:28] <rbasak> By "how things work" I mean how new developers take to my suggested different approach to documentation
[15:28] <bdrung> rbasak: have you done any syncs from Debian yet?
[15:29] <Laney> I think a high level "how do I do this thing I want to do?" section would be nice
[15:29]  * Laney yields
[15:29] <rbasak> I'm not sure I actually have. I'm aware of requestsync. I came close once, but then found a bug so managed to drop the entire delta and then had to introduce one again.
[15:30] <rbasak> I think it's because of the nature of the packages I've worked on so far.
[15:30] <rbasak> I've also read the requestsync manpage and realise it's a slightly different process if I have upload rights to the package in question.
[15:31] <Laney> The appropriate tool then is 'syncpackage'
[15:31] <rbasak> Looks like I'll need to use syncpackage
[15:33] <bdrung> rbasak: when introducing a new delta, getting the change into Debian too is recommended. once the change is accepted in Debian (or tribbled through upstream), you can sync the package (with syncpackage as pointed out by Laney)
[15:33] <bdrung> rbasak: do have you any plans for Debian beyond forwarding relevant patches?
[15:35] <rbasak> I'd like to become a DD in the end. I've got a few new packages I'd like to get into Debian. I've got as far as getting a mentors.d.n account so far.
[15:36] <bdrung> nice to hear.
[15:36] <rbasak> Unfortunately that side of things is a spare time thing for me, so my progress is much slower than the Ubuntu side that I'm paid to work on full time. But I hope to get there.
[15:37] <bdrung> i am confident that you will get there. :)
[15:37] <rbasak> Thanks :)
[15:39] <stgraber> #voters Laney bdrung barry tumbleweed stgraber
[15:39] <meetingology> Current voters: Laney barry bdrung stgraber tumbleweed
[15:39] <stgraber> we'll vote twice, first for MOTU then for server
[15:39] <stgraber> #vote rbasak for MOTU
[15:39] <meetingology> Please vote on: rbasak for MOTU
[15:39] <meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
[15:40] <tumbleweed> +1
[15:40] <meetingology> +1 received from tumbleweed
[15:40] <barry> +1
[15:40] <meetingology> +1 received from barry
[15:40] <stgraber> +1
[15:40] <meetingology> +1 received from stgraber
[15:40] <Laney> +1
[15:40] <meetingology> +1 received from Laney
[15:40] <bdrung> +1
[15:40] <meetingology> +1 received from bdrung
[15:41] <Daviey> stgraber: ?
[15:42] <stgraber> #endvote
[15:42] <meetingology> Voting ended on: rbasak for MOTU
[15:42] <meetingology> Votes for:5 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
[15:42] <meetingology> Motion carried
[15:42] <stgraber> #vote rbasak for server packageset PPU
[15:42] <meetingology> Please vote on: rbasak for server packageset PPU
[15:42] <meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
[15:43] <bdrung> +1
[15:43] <meetingology> +1 received from bdrung
[15:43] <Laney> +1
[15:43] <meetingology> +1 received from Laney
[15:43] <tumbleweed> +1
[15:43] <meetingology> +1 received from tumbleweed
[15:43] <stgraber> +1
[15:43] <meetingology> +1 received from stgraber
[15:43] <barry> +1
[15:43] <meetingology> +1 received from barry
[15:43] <stgraber> #endvote
[15:43] <meetingology> Voting ended on: rbasak for server packageset PPU
[15:43] <meetingology> Votes for:5 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
[15:43] <meetingology> Motion carried
[15:43] <Daviey> \o/, congrats rbasak. Good effort.
[15:43] <rbasak> \o/ thanks all, and for your time!
[15:44] <Laney> well done!
[15:44] <stgraber> added to both teams
[15:51] <stgraber> #topic PPU membership proposal
[15:51] <stgraber> Current proposal is here: http://pad.ubuntu.com/dmb-ppu-membership-proposal
[15:51] <Laney> if my two proposals accurately reflect the two options then I suggest we do a three way vote
[15:51] <Laney> might need to use CIVS or something
[15:52] <Laney> just choosing between them and NOTA
[15:52] <tumbleweed> no objection
[15:53] <Laney> is the first option right?
[15:53] <stgraber> Laney: so can we achieve that with 3 votes, 1 for proposal-1, 1 for proposal-2 and 1 for NOTA? picking the option with the highest number of votes that's > 4?
[15:54] <tumbleweed> Laney: there are missing details in option 1
[15:54] <Laney> I think having it be desktop-core, core and flavours would be good enough and explainable without too much confusion
[15:54] <tumbleweed> Laney: sure
[15:54] <stgraber> let me grab the list I suggested last time
[15:55] <barry> Laney: do you envision this list (of packages/sets to require membership) to change often?
[15:55] <Laney> no, I was hoping for it to not change at all
[15:55] <Laney> to be clear, that's not my favoured option
[15:55] <stgraber> core, desktop-core, flavours, kernel, ubuntu-desktop (same status as flavour), ubuntu-server (same status as flavour) and xorg
[15:56] <Laney> kernel and xorg are subsets of core, aren't they?
[15:56] <Laney> hmm, no
[15:56] <stgraber> there are some overlaps between them, but it's not a subset
[15:57] <Laney> well, the packages therein that you care about
[15:57] <barry> i just want to make sure that an application knows where to look and can find out exactly whether they'll need to apply for membership also
[15:57] <Laney> yes
[15:58] <stgraber> barry: yeah, I expect a fairly static list and for us to recheck when we get an application (pre-meeting)
[15:58] <Laney> I don't think it's us we should be worrying about
[15:59] <stgraber> so should we vote on those three (option-1, option-2 and NOTA)? I have to end the meeting in a minute.
[15:59] <barry> Laney: right.  i guess we'll need a what-do-i-apply-for command ;)
[15:59] <Laney> I think it's best if I set up a CIVS poll and add everyone as voters
[15:59] <Laney> that should work
[15:59] <barry> +1
[15:59] <stgraber> ok, wfm
[15:59] <Laney> action me, I'll do it today
[16:00] <stgraber> #action Laney to setup a CIVS poll to choose between the two options (and NOTA) for PPU membership
[16:00] <meetingology> ACTION: Laney to setup a CIVS poll to choose between the two options (and NOTA) for PPU membership
[16:00] <stgraber> #topic AOB
[16:00] <Laney> ta
[16:00] <stgraber> Next meeting chair will be ScottK (and Barry after that)
[16:00] <stgraber> #endmeeting
[16:00] <meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Jul  1 16:00:41 2013 UTC.
[16:00] <meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-07-01-15.00.moin.txt
[16:00] <meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-07-01-15.00.html
[16:00] <barry> stgraber: thanks!
[16:00] <stgraber> thanks everyone, hoping to get to the minutes sometime tomorrow (really too busy today)
[16:31] <tyhicks> hello
[16:31] <jdstrand> hi!
[16:31] <jdstrand> #startmeeting
[16:31] <meetingology> Meeting started Mon Jul  1 16:31:12 2013 UTC.  The chair is jdstrand. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
[16:31] <meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
[16:31] <jdstrand> The meeting agenda can be found at:
[16:31] <jdstrand> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
[16:32] <jdstrand> [TOPIC] Announcements
[16:32] <jdstrand> Stefan Bader (smb) provided debdiffs for precise-saucy for xen. Your work is very much appreciated and will keep Ubuntu users secure. Thanks! :)
[16:32] <jdstrand> [TOPIC] Weekly stand-up report
[16:32] <jdstrand> I'll go first
[16:33] <jdstrand> I'm in the happy place this week, though I didn't really get to community last week
[16:33] <jdstrand> sarnold, can you hold off on community duties this week?
[16:33] <jdstrand> sarnold: feel free to respond to #ubuntu-hardened, but just not the current backlog. I'll get to it
[16:33] <jdstrand> worked a lot on the SDK last week. Need to upload the latest patchset to saucy, upstream the patchset and file a few bugs with the SDK team and coordinate with them before I handoff to sbeattie
[16:34] <jdstrand> I also need to coordinate with the team the work for this month
[16:34] <jdstrand> (ie, send the email)
[16:34] <jdstrand> I am working on lcms2 and openjdk-7 updates
[16:34] <jdstrand> and am patch piloting this week
[16:35] <sbeattie> jdstrand: did you upload the sdk patch set to the dbus-dev ppa?
[16:35] <jdstrand> sbeattie: a variation of it. I need to upload there too. basically, I did several uploads-- the ppa got an early one, then saucy got the others. I have one more for both
[16:36] <sbeattie> okay
[16:36] <jdstrand> sbeattie: mdes laur is off today. you're up
[16:37] <sbeattie> I'm focused on apparmor development again this week.
[16:38] <sbeattie> I'm sweeping through my email after having been on holiday for two weeks
[16:38] <sbeattie> I need to review what jdstrand did with the sdk patches and see what's next to work on there.
[16:39] <sbeattie> I also need to look at and respond to the ipc email jjohansen sent to the apparmor list
[16:39]  * jjohansen feels sorry for sbeattie
[16:39] <sbeattie> That's all I can remember at the moment, I'm sure there's other things I need to do.
[16:39] <sbeattie> tyhicks: tag.
[16:39] <jdstrand> sbeattie: I can tell you right off the most important thing this month is the click apparmor hook
[16:39] <sbeattie> cool
[16:40] <jdstrand> a demo will be help at the end of the month for the higher ups, so we kinda need that :)
[16:40] <jdstrand> I imagine it will be quite straightforward
[16:40] <jdstrand> s/help/held
[16:41] <sbeattie> okay
[16:41] <tyhicks> I'll be active in the AA IPC email thread to help drive the syntax discussions to completion
[16:42] <tyhicks> I'm going to look into enabling ARM package building support in dbus-dev so that I can easily "measure unpatched and patched dbus performance on phablet image"
[16:42] <tyhicks> (I need to follow up w/ jjohansen to check on the phablet kernel backport status first)
[16:42] <jjohansen> tyhicks: new kernels are in all 4 images, and saucy
[16:42] <tyhicks> I'll be ready to help out with any online accounts questions regarding libapparmor APIs
[16:43] <tyhicks> thanks jjohansen
[16:43] <tyhicks> and I'll be ready to pick up the content manager work once the cli-based content manager is ready
[16:44] <tyhicks> also, the kernel merge window is now open, so I'll need to prepare a pull request and I have a couple other minor eCryptfs tasks to catch up on
[16:44] <tyhicks> I think that's it
[16:44] <tyhicks> jjohansen: you're up
[16:45] <jjohansen> so I have to finish up walking sarnold through the 2.8 release this week
[16:46] <jjohansen> and I have a couple of kernel issues to hunt down that have surfaced in the maguro phablet kernel
[16:46] <jjohansen> and then I'll doing apparmor dev
[16:47] <jjohansen> oh and I suppose tormenting people with IPC syntax emails
[16:47] <jjohansen> I think that is it from me
[16:47] <jjohansen> sarnold: your up
[16:47] <sbeattie> jjohansen: now that I'm back, would it make more sense for me to walk sarnold through the release?
[16:47] <jdstrand> jjohansen: so, it is just maguro, not the others?
[16:47] <jjohansen> sbeattie: it might
[16:48] <jdstrand> I think it would be great if sbeattie could help jjohansen in that way
[16:48] <sarnold> I'm on community this week; jdstrand has suggested he'll take over some of the duties from his week, but since I've already done one of the ruby-openid-ish updates from ckuerste, it'd be easy for me to take at least that one and make sure it looks a lot like the previous one...
[16:48] <jjohansen> jdstrand: yes they have only showed up in maguro. That doesn't mean they aren't in the others but ...
[16:48] <jdstrand> but I'll leave it up to you guys
[16:49] <jdstrand> jjohansen: that is interesting. quite a few people have mako and grouper fwiw
[16:49] <jdstrand> anyhoo, hopefully it will be easy to track down
[16:49] <sarnold> I also have some openssl packages with the site-wide compression disable patch in -proposed that I would like to distribute far and wide, and USN
[16:49] <jdstrand> sarnold: feelf ree to take ruby-openid-ish
[16:49] <jdstrand> sarnold: I just didn't want to stick you with the stuff I didn't do
[16:50] <sarnold> the tracking bug had less traffic than I hoped, but it was one guy saying the updated openssl let him pass his PCI-DSS audit for postfix, so hooray :)
[16:50] <sarnold> jdstrand: cool, thanks
[16:50] <jjohansen> jdstrand: yeah its a bit of a pain, but I have reproduced with the x86 version of the 3.0 backport so its not a problem
[16:50] <jjohansen> otherwise I would have been bugging you for a device
[16:51] <sarnold> I also had a few ACKs on outstanding patches on the apparmor mail list that I wanted to check into trunk and perhaps nominate for 2.8 before a 2.8.2 release
[16:51] <sbeattie> sarnold: note that cboltz merged one or two this morning.
[16:52] <sarnold> and the AppArmor IPC mails will likely consume the rest of my week; bouncycastle testing is again a bottom-priority task
[16:52] <sarnold> sbeattie: oh, cool :)
[16:52] <sarnold> I think that's it for me, chrisccoulson, your turn
[16:52] <chrisccoulson> hi :)
[16:52] <chrisccoulson> so, last week was a fun week of updates (firefox, thunderbird and chromium)
[16:53] <chrisccoulson> i'm currently looking at a crash in chromium, and there's going to be an update to fix a webapp-related issue as well
[16:53] <sarnold> (thank you :)
[16:54] <chrisccoulson> also, bug 1194841 (firefox), which i'll do another update for this week
[16:54] <chrisccoulson> that one is pretty annoying, especially as it was known upstream, but their release team rejected including it for 22.0
[16:55] <chrisccoulson> then after that, it's back on to oxide hacking again :)
[16:55] <chrisccoulson> (there aren't any other planned updates this week)
[16:55] <chrisccoulson> i think that's me done
[16:55] <jdstrand> chrisccoulson: we should have that cross-team oxide meeting soon
[16:56] <jdstrand> [TOPIC] Highlighted packages
[16:56] <jdstrand> The Ubuntu Security team will highlight some community-supported packages that might be good candidates for updating and or triaging. If you would like to help Ubuntu and not sure where to start, this is a great way to do so.
[16:56] <jdstrand> See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdateProcedures for details and if you have any questions, feel free to ask in #ubuntu-security. To find out other ways of helping out, please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/GettingInvolved.
[16:56] <jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/srtp.html
[16:56] <chrisccoulson> jdstrand, yeah, i agree (sorry, just went to grab a glass of water)
[16:56] <jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/latd.html
[16:56] <jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/ldns.html
[16:56] <jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/rocksndiamonds.html
[16:56] <jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/kolabd.html
[16:57] <jdstrand> [TOPIC] Miscellaneous and Questions
[16:57] <jdstrand> Does anyone have any other questions or items to discuss?
[17:05] <jdstrand> sbeattie, tyhicks, jjohansen, sarnold, chrisccoulson: thanks!
[17:05] <jdstrand> #endmeeting
[17:05] <meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Jul  1 17:05:46 2013 UTC.
[17:05] <meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-07-01-16.31.moin.txt
[17:05] <meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-07-01-16.31.html
[17:05] <sarnold> thanks jdstrand :)
[17:05] <tyhicks> thanks
[17:06] <jjohansen> thanks jdstrand
[17:07] <sbeattie> thanks jdstrand
[20:36] <Fionnghall> Who knows, ubuntu community alredy fix bug with ibus?
[20:37] <Fionnghall> in v13.04 when you run gedit, you get message with error
[20:37] <Fionnghall> How fix it?
[20:38] <pleia2> Fionnghall: you want #ubuntu for support
[20:46] <Fionnghall> Thx.