[02:00] <pleia2> #startmeeting
[02:00] <darthrobot> Meeting started Mon Jul  1 02:00:19 2013 UTC.  The chair is pleia2. Information about MeetBot at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
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[02:00] <pleia2> anyone here for the meeting? :)
[02:00] <philipballew> here
[02:00] <pleia2> hey philipballew
[02:01] <philipballew> well hello
[02:01] <pleia2> #agenda https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CaliforniaTeam/Meetings/13June30
[02:01] <darthrobot> Title: [CaliforniaTeam/Meetings/13June30 - Ubuntu Wiki]
[02:01] <pleia2> empty :)
[02:01] <eps> woo-hoo!
[02:01] <philipballew> I guess that means we already did all the work?
[02:01] <pleia2> got a couple of events coming up, Ubuntu Hours in SF and Berkeley http://loco.ubuntu.com/teams/ubuntu-california/events/
[02:01] <darthrobot> Title: [Ubuntu California Events List | Ubuntu LoCo Team Portal]
[02:01] <pleia2> that's pretty much it though
[02:02] <pleia2> I did also want to mention that we had a bug report filed to work with the LoCo Council to get reapproval done this cycle
[02:02] <philipballew> pleia2, I saw that I think.
[02:02] <pleia2> we expire in september
[02:03] <pleia2> philipballew: yeah, i think all three leaders are subbed
[02:03] <pleia2> no rush, but I will probably start working on the reapproval app soon (not too hard to do since we do monthly reports)
[02:04] <philipballew> pleia2, alright, anything I can do just let me know. There are many ways to get a hold of me and all work.
[02:04] <pleia2> cool, thanks ;)
[02:04] <pleia2> :)
[02:04] <pleia2> that's really all I had for the meeting
[02:05] <philipballew> I currently have nothing myself. I am out of town.
[02:05] <pleia2> floor's open for anyone who wishes to bring anything up
[02:05]  * eps is happy not to be in Walnut Creek -- it's hot enough to fry bacon. ;-)
[02:06] <philipballew> I'm headed to auburn on Tuesday. It's 104 there today iirc.
[02:06] <pleia2> oh dear
[02:06] <philipballew> 108 tomorrow
[02:06] <pleia2> supposed to get to 79 in the city tomorrow (but I just got home from NYC, where it was in the 80s and humid the whole time I was there)
[02:06] <philipballew> but you learn to deal with it.
[02:07] <philipballew> pleia2, I might need to come to the city to escape the heat or something.
[02:07] <pleia2> philipballew: should do, it's nice!
[02:07] <pleia2> maybe go to the beach
[02:08] <philipballew> that actually sounds like a great idea. Something to do once I get back into the states.
[02:08] <philipballew> I also found out my flight cuts through Atlanta. Not sure about this...
[02:13] <pleia2> ok, I think we can wrap this up :)
[02:13] <pleia2> thanks eps and philipballew
[02:14] <pleia2> #endmeeting
[02:14] <darthrobot> Meeting ended Mon Jul  1 02:14:04 2013 UTC.
[02:14] <darthrobot> Minutes:        http://ihas.5cat.com/~darthrobot/ubuntu-us-ca/2013/ubuntu-us-ca.2013-07-01-02.00.moin.txt
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[05:45] <rww> pleia2: "I did also want to mention that we had a bug report filed to work with the LoCo Council to get reapproval done this cycle" Is that on Launchpad? If so, link? I couldn't find it.
[05:49] <pleia2> rww: the bugs aren't public, they're simply a tracking mechanism for the council and it's shared with the team leads
[05:49] <rww> Ah, okay.
[05:49] <pleia2> it's not really used for anything, so there isn't info in it
[05:49] <pleia2> just "need to renew this cycle" kind of thing
[05:49]  * rww nods
[05:49] <rww> I couldn't find the process on wiki.ubuntu.com, so I wasn't sure what it involved.
[05:50] <rww> reapproval app would be on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CaliforniaTeam/ReApprovalApplication2013 when it's created, right?
[05:50] <darthrobot> [404] Title: [CaliforniaTeam/ReApprovalApplication2013 - Ubuntu Wiki]
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[16:53] <pleia2> rww: I haven't kept "Re" - just https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CaliforniaTeam/ApprovalApplication2013
[16:53] <darthrobot> Title: [CaliforniaTeam/ApprovalApplication2013 - Ubuntu Wiki]
[17:50] <GNUdru> http://www.itwire.com/opinion-and-analysis/open-sauce/60487-kubuntu-v-ubuntu-looks-like-the-house-is-dividing
[17:50] <darthrobot> Title: [Kubuntu v Ubuntu: looks like the house is dividing]
[17:51] <pleia2> ah Sam Varghese
[17:51] <pleia2> (he's pretty notorious for these kinds of posts)
[17:53] <pleia2> but sensationalism works for page clicks, C'est la vie :)
[17:54] <GNUdru> in my opinion now that Shuttleworth is putting all his eggs in the Mir basket all the derivatives will be forced away from being derivatives.   hear no one but Canonical has been able to get Mir working.  C'est la vie.  Ubuntu will no longer be the leader.  It'll be out standing in (Shuttleworth's) field. :-)
[17:54] <GNUdru> ttyl
[17:54] <pleia2> GNUdru: have you been following the threads on the devel mailing list?
[17:55] <GNUdru> no sorry i haven't
[17:55] <pleia2> the discussion is ongoing and progressing, benchmarks for the flavors have been created and shared
[17:55] <GNUdru> gotta run sorry
[17:55] <pleia2> it's worth a read if you want to build an informed opinion
[17:55] <pleia2> lots of cool datapoints
[17:55] <GNUdru> yeah i don't think it'll be successful.  even if some of the flavors follow, in general it can't work
[17:56] <GNUdru> laws of physics.  it can't work
[17:56] <pleia2> anyway, stay cool :)
[17:56] <pleia2> (warm day!)
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[21:43] <rww> GNUdru: not sure what the laws of physics have to do with it. As far as I know, XMir should be able to handle X compatibility just fine, even for flavors that don't end up with a Mir backend. That said, I know that at least Kubuntu is just switching with Xorg, but I'm not sure why that implies they'll stop being Ubuntu derivatives.
[21:44] <pleia2> the real problems actually begin to arise when the environments stop building for xorg and target wayland instead, xorg compat should be fine
[21:44] <rww> indeed
[21:44] <rww> Perhaps we'll end up with a WaylandMir or something ;)
[21:44] <pleia2> I'm not losing sleep over it
[21:45] <pleia2> wayland still has a long way to go before anyone defaults to it, I don't really see any writing on the wall at this point
[21:45] <pleia2> and x will be around for a long time
[21:45] <pleia2> s/anyone/anyone sane :)
[21:46] <rww> I really don't see non-Ubuntu stuff going to Mir, but yeah, I'm not particularly concerned about it. Ubuntu has a long tradition of patching the heck out of packages to support Canonical projects, not like much will change.
[21:46] <rww> so yes. storm in a teacup.
[21:46] <rww> (Varghese's favorite type of storm >.>)
[21:46] <pleia2> indeed
[23:48] <GNUdru> http://www.h-online.com/open/features/Comment-Don-t-develop-just-for-your-favourite-distribution-1874065.html
[23:48] <darthrobot> Title: [Comment: Don't develop just for your favourite distribution - The H Open: News and Features]
[23:58] <GNUdru> oh, I had to run earlier (and I'm just dropping in for a sec now), but what I meant by "laws of physics. can't work" is that in Mir, Shuttleworth is not providing a followable trail for the derivatives, so of course they will not follow.  Maybe some of the flavors (as opposed to nonShuttleworth-supported derivatives) will try it, and maybe even keep it up for awhile, but i doubt they can sustain it.  The thing that
[23:58] <GNUdru> could change that would be if Shuttleworth is fantastically successful in his go-it-alone gambit and then has so much money coming in he can afford to really support downstream development and bothers to really expend effort to sell it.  Otherwise look for Ubuntu to lose its role as upstream distro for so many other distros.  The lot of them will be practically speaking forced to go X and Wayland.  No real choice.
[23:59] <pleia2> not sure what you mean about "not providing a followable trail" - Mir is open source and on the mailing list the Mir developers have been aggressive about offering to help the flavors support Mir