/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2013/07/02/#ubuntu-devel.txt

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pittiGood morning04:24
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dholbachgood morning06:42
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jibelhallyn, thanks for looking. What was the problem with memsw.limit_in_bytes? I had to enable is with swapaccount=1 on the boot command line. Anyway, I'll try to reduce the test case on a fresh installation.08:18
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bigonhi, is that expected that rmadison tool is still showing me packages from hardy?10:04
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xnoxbigon: probably just not removed from the rmadison config.....10:20
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xclaesseseb128, (sorry if it's not you to ping): gnome3 ppa has libharfbuzz-icu0 package but no corresponding -dev10:30
seb128ricotz, ^10:30
xclaessesomething went wrong in the split of icu out of harfbuzz I guess10:31
ricotzxclaesse, the libharfbuzz-dev packages contains the needed dev bits10:35
ricotzxclaesse, i wasn't involved in the split, but it is fine that way10:36
xclaessericotz, hmmm, indeed... wondering why my webkit build does not find it then :/10:37
xclaesseprobably confused between distro package and what's in jhbuild :(10:37
dokomlankhorst, mdeslaur: you looked last at libx11 and libxcb. could you have a look at the build failures in the test rebuild? and/or decide on the merge from debian?10:37
xclaessethanks anyway :)10:37
ricotzxclaesse, probably make sure you have libicu-dev installed and maybe even enable the harfbuzz-confflag explicitly10:40
cjwatsonbigon: I've removed hardy and oneiric from rmadison, thanks10:41
mlankhorstsure10:45
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tseliotpitti: hi, can you approve nvidia-graphics-drivers-319-updates in saucy please?11:31
pittihey tseliot11:38
pittitseliot: approve for NEW, presumably? it's been a while since I've done archive admin, let me look11:38
pittitseliot: did the packaging or license change compared to the previous versions?11:39
tseliotpitti: yes, new and then please move the binaries to main11:39
pittitseliot: restricted, I presume?11:39
tseliotpitti: not really, it's the same as the 319 flavour11:39
tseliotpitti: yes restricted11:40
pitti"same as 310"?11:40
pittioh, 319 without updates11:40
tseliotyep11:40
tseliot319 replaces 31011:40
* pitti gives that some spot-checking and comparing with -31911:41
pittitseliot: LGTM, source-NEWed11:44
tseliotpitti: excellent, thanks!11:45
pitticjwatson, xnox: I'm currently experimenting with letting DanChapman's ubiquity autopilot tests run in a VM with xvfb; before I get to that, I need to provide it with a fake disk drive, so that it has something to install to11:47
pittiI created a 5 GB loop device and put a raid0 on top of that, getting a /dev/mdX; that bit works fine11:47
cjwatsonI think it will probably need to look a bit more like a regular disk11:48
cjwatsonMaybe virtio instead?11:48
pittiis there a way to hide the other, "real" /dev/vda from partman's consideration?11:48
pittiright now, if I do it like that and install in automatic mode, it trashes the (mounted!) /dev/vda, partitions/overwrites it, and fails11:48
pittiwith manual partitioning to /dev/md42 it works11:48
xnoxpitti: providing fake disks to the installer and hiding host/VM disk, is something i have not managed to do yet. If this was possible, we'd be able to fully automate installer tests in lxc or somesuch =)11:49
pittixnox: well, we have the smoketests, but they use pre-seeding; it would be cool to run the ubiquity UI tests with autopilot11:49
pittiwe don't need to actually boot the installed disk, of course11:49
cjwatsonThere isn't a general filter mechanism, short of diverting parted_devices or something11:49
pittijust a coarse inspection that the partitioning is right should be enough for the UI tests11:50
xnoxpitti: yeah, my current plan was to further modify ubiquity pre-seeding to self launch itself under autopilot, instead of using preseed-file to automate itself.11:50
xnox(if above makes sense)11:50
cjwatson(Which isn't necessarily *completely* stupid; divert it, call the real one and grep out the devices you don't want ...)11:50
dokobarry, you uploaded python-configglue, without a MIR for python-configparser11:50
pitticjwatson: that seems fine11:50
pittiit's a bit of a bugger that it defaults to a mounted device, but I guess that doesn't happen in real life11:51
dokozul: you uploaded python-greenlet without a MIR for python-all-db11:51
pitticjwatson, xnox: I also need to divert grub-install for that, as my fake /dev/md42 isn't visible by grub; diverting /usr/sbin/grub-install doesn't work, though, as it calls grub-install from /target; did any of you already run into this? if not, I'll look for a workaround11:52
cjwatsonThere are various mechanisms for avoiding the installation medium, avoiding things that are part of dmraid, and the like, but the above isn't one of them11:52
pittiwe can of course also set up a custom VM with a spare virtio drive11:52
cjwatsonI'm concerned that by the time you've worked around all the problems with this it won't look enough like a real environment11:53
pittibut I wanted to check if we can do it in a bog standard autopkgtest VM, which would be easiest (also for reproducing problems, etc.)11:53
cjwatsonThe installer is pretty sensitive to details of disk layout11:53
dokozul, ahh, a typo. fixed. thanks for testing the build deps before upload ;)11:53
cjwatsonFor GRUB, I'm not sure, what would you do instead if you can't see /dev/md42?11:54
dokozul, python-keystoneclient and python-warlock ftbfs11:55
pitticjwatson: I'm not sure what grub-install considers as "see", but its current behaviour is quite alright; I'm mostly checking if we can skip the bootloader install. That's possible in manual mode of course11:55
pitti(or brainwash grub-install to accept /dev/mdX anyway)11:56
dokojamespage, could you have a look at the maven mess? wants to get in main again, see http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/component-mismatches-proposed.txt11:56
pittianyway, I'll play around with this a bit11:56
pitticjwatson: thanks for the parted_devices trick11:56
jamespagedoko, yeah sure11:57
dokojamespage, \o/11:58
jamespagedoko, hmm dom4j - lets see now11:58
* jamespage goes to poke it with a big stick11:58
cjwatsonpitti: I guess it depends exactly how grub-install is currently failing11:59
dokoDaviey, cjwatson, looking at http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/component-mismatches.svg, I see that only ruby-json has a MIR (just promoted)12:09
cjwatsonWe've been asking for MIRs for those for some time :-/12:11
rbasakDaviey asked me to look at those last week.12:13
rbasakThis does seem a bit backwards though. Is it normal to just bump a major version and cause a bunch of component mismatches without examining the situation first?12:14
dokorbasak, I think I do repeat myself here. getting puppet away from ruby1.8 was requested for the last *three* releases12:15
dokonothing did happen, so I did take the clue bat12:15
cjwatsonrbasak: I'm wary of complaining about that aspect of it, since it's so easy to do by accident12:17
cjwatsonBut it does need to be sorted out12:17
* rbasak will sort it out12:18
dokothanks12:18
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dokozul, Daviey: the apache2 merge cause a lot of packages to dep-wait. mdeslaur told me that you would care about it?12:20
rbasakdoko: please remember that I'm new here. I wasn't aware of any communication about wanting puppet out of ruby1.8. I'd have happily tried a merge without bumping to puppet 3 first had I known about it. Might it be an idea to send a warning to ubuntu-devel or ubuntu-server before you take your clue bat out in future?12:20
zuldoko: yeah ill take a look at it today12:21
rbasakdoko: to say "X needs to be done; it hasn't been done, so I propose that I'll do Y unless I hear otherwise".12:21
rbasakdoko: because had I seen that, I'd have looked at it.12:21
dokorbasak, well, I can try (and I didn't know that you were not involved with that earlier). but maybe people should be reminded at the various ftbs and component mismatch web pages at regular intervals12:22
rbasakdoko: AIUI, puppet wasn't FTBFS nor component mismatching before your upload, though. Is there somewhere that I could have seen that you wanted the ruby1.8 dependency removed?12:23
dokorbasak, I don't know. had that mentioned several times at UDS'es in public sessions, so it should have some recording12:24
rbasakSo I'm new to MIRs. ruby-hiera needs an MIR, but recommends mcollective, which I've found evidence is safe to drop with no consequences. Should I just upload a ruby-hiera delta that drops the recommends down to a suggests first before filing the MIR to resolve that issue?12:32
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rbasakie. do we do uploads to universe to get packages ready for main inclusion?12:35
rbasak(I presume so but I wanted to check)12:35
xnoxrbasak: yeah. packages are promoted from universe/multiverse into main/restricted. Thus they should be in the archive already.12:37
rbasakOK, thanks!12:43
dpmseb128, ok, this is still WIP, but I've added the Launchpad setup instructions for new translatable projects, so that next time it's easier to find out how to do it -> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/CoreApps/Translations12:53
dpmit's for core apps, but it can apply to any LP project really12:53
evmpt: is the count of machines what we're really weighting? I thought it was the errors themselves? That is, (min(days since first error, 90) / 90.0) for each error in the release / number of unique systems seen in the past 90 days in the release12:57
evThis is looking at "c = count of machines (eventually weighted)"12:57
ev(for the error rates of architectures in each problem)12:58
seb128dpm, thanks!13:00
mptev, I think you need to weight both13:01
mptThe point of weighting a machine when counting it is to take into account the probability that it no longer exists, no matter what you then use that count for.13:01
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evwe create an awful lot of work for ourselves by not just counting systems running Ubuntu.13:04
evmpt: so what would you weight the denominator with?13:04
mptEven if we did count them, we'd still need to weight them in exactly the same way. :-)13:04
evfair point :)13:05
dokopitti, there seems to be a bug in your dependency tracking code for component mismatches. shortens libc++ to libc ...13:05
cjwatsonThat's not pitti's code13:06
cjwatsonWait, unless I misunderstand.  Which dependency tracking code do you mean?13:07
dokocjwatson, http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/component-mismatches-proposed.svg13:09
dokoand it eats dashes too in the popups13:09
dokothe txt files seem to be correct13:09
hallynjibel: well I"m not sure.  I had swapaccount=1 set in my grub.cfg, but it never seemed to honour that.  kept getting EOPNOTSUPP13:11
cjwatsonWah, where on earth is libc++ in all of that13:12
cjwatsonOh, I see, that might be my fault13:13
dokoon the top, the graph shows gmp depending on libc13:13
dokoand unrelated, if you hover over the green circles, then the dashes are missing in the popups13:14
mptev, r(whatever) = ( Σ whatever (machine weight * errors in period / period) ) / ( Σ whatever (machine weight) )13:16
mptI doubt that's simplifiable13:17
* xnox ponders about introducing LaTeX irc extensions.....13:17
evI maintain again: we need a whiteboard13:17
evxnox: this thing doesn't even support unicode properly.13:18
maswanxnox: just write it out, the experienced reader will understand \frac{...13:18
maswanxnox: had a lecturer that provided lecture notes on the web in that form, was surprisingly readable. :)13:19
evmpt: this looks completely different than the previous formula for weighting errors per calendar day. Was that method incorrect?13:19
cjwatsondoko: Currently wishing I were a little bit more familiar with dot13:19
mptev, no, the difference between them is bug 1077122. :-)13:20
ubottubug 1077122 in Errors "Machine weighted at 100% 89 days after last report, 0% 90 days after" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/107712213:20
mptoh, we had a previous formula for *weighting* errors?13:20
mptOh, right, P = e ^ (–λ t)13:21
evno, I think this is the confusion I have between bug 1077122 and bug 106982713:21
ubottubug 1077122 in Errors "Machine weighted at 100% 89 days after last report, 0% 90 days after" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/107712213:21
ubottubug 1069827 in Errors "Error rate incorrectly spikes with any influx of machines" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/106982713:21
mptP = e ^ (–λ t) is just my prediction of what the weight curve will end up looking like13:21
cjwatsonLooks like there might be an undocumented way to quote symbols13:22
dokodidrocks, promoted sphinxbase n -proposed as well13:24
mptev, yeah, probably we should avoid using the word "weight" w.r.t. 1069827 ... that's a fudge13:24
mpt1077122 is about the probability that a machine doesn't exist any more13:24
didrocksdoko: thanks!13:25
mpt1069827 is about the probability that a new reporting machine is representative of a large number of new not-yet-counted machines13:25
* ev nods13:26
evthat much I get, and it results in the formula you came up with and I coded with the following test: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~daisy-pluckers/daisy/trunk/view/head:/test/test_weighting.py#L4213:27
evbut what I don't get is how that connects to weighted machines or bug 107712213:27
ubottubug 1077122 in Errors "Machine weighted at 100% 89 days after last report, 0% 90 days after" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/107712213:27
mptaha, weight weight weight13:27
dokoseb128, you synced jackd2 from experimental, now stuck in -proposed because of a component-mismatch (opus)13:27
evI see a whiteboard, off in the distance13:28
evbut I bet people are precious about it13:28
seb128doko, seems like one for TheMuso or diwic13:28
seb128TheMuso, ^ could you have a look?13:29
mptWe could call them ... ramping and damping13:29
mptRamping is the weight increasing from 0 to 1 over the first 90 days13:29
mptDamping is the weight declining from 1 to 0 over however long machines are known to usually take to do that13:29
cjwatsondoko: Fixed for the next run; those two things were actually not unrelated, but two aspects of the same problem13:30
dokocjwatson, thanks!13:32
dokoseb128, TheMuso: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/opus/+bug/119696713:34
ubottuLaunchpad bug 1196967 in opus (Ubuntu) "[MIR] opus (b-d of jackd2)" [Undecided,Incomplete]13:34
dokojamespage, jarjar now requires libasm4-java instead of libasm3-java. should we just promote this, or trying to demote libasm3-java?13:36
cjwatsondoko: Also fixed the slightly incorrect +filebug links for the next run13:36
dokocjwatson, I didn't note that one =)13:37
cjwatsonquote_plus is my friend13:37
jamespagedoko, we should go for demoting asm3 if possible - there are only two other deps in main13:38
jamespage* libcglib-java13:38
jamespage* libow-util-ant-tasks-java13:38
dokojamespage, ok, then I'll promote and file issues for these13:38
dokojamespage, http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/component-mismatches-proposed.svg now looks much nicer without the maven stuff13:39
jamespagedoko, yeah - I had to drop the XSD support that ebourg added13:39
jamespagemsv looks awkward - again I'll raise a bug to track we disabled it and why13:40
jamespageif someone wants to re-enable then converting msv to build with ant would make sense13:40
dokobarry, there is a MIR missing for python-configparser for your python-configglue upload13:45
barrydoko: ack13:50
dokobarry, just uploaded configparser to remove the unused python-support b-d13:51
mptev, mistake fixed. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ErrorTracker?action=diff&rev2=170&rev1=16913:53
jamespage@pilot in13:53
=== udevbot changed the topic of #ubuntu-devel to: Ubuntu 13.04 released | Archive: open | Devel of Ubuntu (not support or app devel) | build failures -> http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/ftbfs/ | #ubuntu for support and discussion of lucid -> raring | #ubuntu-app-devel for app development on Ubuntu http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment | See #ubuntu-bugs for http://bit.ly/lv8soi | Patch Pilots: jamespage
evmpt: right, that's how we have it in the code as well13:55
dokodidrocks, seb128: who is handling qtwebkit-opensource-src? (b-d of signon-ui now)13:55
didrocksdoko: Mirv13:56
dokoMirv, ^^^13:57
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mptev, basically the mistake was our April attempt to answer the question, What if the ramping and damping overlap? I thought the damping should immediately stop the ramping. But  if they just multiply each other, the weighting curve is smoother over time, which suggests it's more correct.14:02
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dokojamespage, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ow-util-ant-tasks/+bug/119697914:07
ubottuLaunchpad bug 1196979 in ow-util-ant-tasks (Ubuntu Saucy) "[MIR] libasm4-java (b-d of jarjar)" [Undecided,New]14:07
evah, right14:10
jodhstgraber/cjwatson: could you take a look at lp:~jamesodhunt/upstart/fix-libupstart and suggest why this might be failing at the 'make distcheck' stage due to lib/upstart/ not having been created?14:18
dokodidrocks, hmm, and sphinxbase is ftbfs in -proposed14:38
didrocksdoko: I think it's mterry who uploaded it, right? ^14:39
* mterry looks14:39
mterrydidrocks, hrm, so I am14:41
xnoxjodh: in the gen target you use all pre-requisites via variable "$<", one of your prerequisites is "upstart" which is just a directory and actually shouldn't be part of the nih-dbus-tool call. And when using suffix rules the amount of targets $@ should match the amount of pre-requisites $<.14:41
seb128didrocks, making mterry pay for enabling tests on build? :p14:42
didrocksseb128: exactly, failing on i386! :)14:42
xnoxjodh: that might not be all of it, but it does result in out-of-order execution, where "upstart/com.ubuntu.Upstart.c" is generated from matching .xml pre-requisite, without considering "upstart" dependency.14:42
mterrydidrocks, seb128: pfft, who uses i386 anymore?14:43
didrocksmterry: agreed, only some people like seb128 does that! :p14:43
jodhxnox: $< is the first prereq, $^ is all.14:43
seb128mterry, you!14:43
seb128mterry, (and me)14:43
seb128or did you stop?14:43
mterryseb128, I'm on amd64 now14:44
mterryseb128, join us!14:44
seb128bah14:44
seb128mterry, I will when I get my new laptop14:44
seb128mterry, I'm just pondering between 2 models, need to decide on that ;-)14:45
xnoxjodh: excatly, which means that "upstart" prerequisite is not needed to build $@ using $<14:45
xnoxthus not executed beforehand.14:45
seb128mterry, I wish Dell was making an xps13 with a non glossy screen14:45
dobeyi wish someone would make a 10" laptop that's at least 1080p, if not 4k2k14:46
Sarvattseb128: absolute worst time to buy an ultrabook but x1 carbon has my recommendation from the current models (and its matte) :P14:53
xnoxpsivaa: i do wonder what has changed in the mean time, as well installer was not updated/uploaded in the timeframe between failures and the bug disappearing =)14:53
cjwatsonI'm dealing with it :)14:54
cjwatsonxnox: ^14:54
xnoxack.14:55
seb128Sarvatt, I hate thinkpads' look14:55
jodhxnox: I think it is. the problem seems to be that lib/upstart/ is getting created in the unpacked source directory, not _build/lib/upstart/ which is where I though it would create it as I've specified $(builddir).14:55
dokozul, apache2 failed to build14:55
xnoxjodh: strange.14:56
zuldoko:  strange it built fine here14:56
dokozul using -proposed components?14:57
zuldoko:  no14:57
zulill take a look14:58
psivaaxnox: is this about bug #119569015:05
ubottubug 1195690 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Exception in GTK frontend during preseeded default installations" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/119569015:05
psivaawhich does not occur anymore btw15:05
cjwatsonOh, OK, xnox may be asking psivaa about a different bug from the one I thought15:09
cjwatsonSorry for butting in, then :)15:09
jdstrandcjwatson: hi! we've defined the security section of the manifest file and have adjusted our tools to take a manifest file and look under the toplevel 'security' key for a JSON object (dictionary)15:10
jdstrandcjwatson: I read http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~click-hackers/click/trunk/view/head:/doc/file-format.rst, but it doesn't have a security section15:10
xnoxpsivaa: yeah that.15:11
jdstrandcjwatson: so, I was curious about your thoughts on that (I'd also like to submit a couple of tests for some manifests that have the security section in them)15:12
psivaaxnox: not sure how that got fixed, but does not occur anymore, i too did not see ubiquity changes during the weekend15:12
jdstrandcjwatson: in other news, we (sbeattie) should be working on the apparmor hook this week15:12
jdstrandcjwatson: I plan to write to ubuntu-devel soon for sdk coordination, but here is something of a preview - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Specifications/ApplicationConfinement/Manifest15:15
jdstrandcjwatson: (note there is a click package section about half-way down)15:16
cjwatsonjdstrand: I'm expecting you to fill in the section in that doc15:16
cjwatsonI don't have any particular thoughts on it really15:16
jdstrandcjwatson: ah, when I read the manifest section, I thought you might have been thinking this should be x-security15:17
cjwatsonNope15:17
cjwatsonx- is for local extensions, not for things we define for widespread use15:17
cjwatsonthe point being that that way we can define things without fear of clashing with somebody's local extension for whatever reason15:18
jdstrandcjwatson: ok cool. alright, so I'll do a merge request with the doc change and some tests. sbeattie will come along later and may ask about the click apparmor hook15:18
cjwatsoncool, thanks15:18
cjwatsonthe hook interface may need to be changed; he shouldn't necessarily expect it to be adequate right now15:18
jdstrandsbeattie: ^15:19
jdstrandcjwatson: ack. are we the first ones to do a hook?15:19
cjwatsonyep15:20
cjwatsonthough I need to figure out one for desktop files / application upstart job integration / whatever it is15:20
* jdstrand nods15:20
DavieyIsn't X- as a prefix for an identifier considered deprecated now?15:20
jamespagecjwatson, there is a merge of efibootmgr in the sponsorship queue - https://code.launchpad.net/~logan/ubuntu/saucy/efibootmgr/0.5.4-6ubuntu1/+merge/16957215:23
jamespageit looks OK - are you good for me to sponsor?15:23
cjwatsonsure, though I thought I already said it was pointless :)15:23
cjwatsonit's waiting for Sledge to accept a patch I sent to Debian and then it can be a sync15:24
cjwatsonbut whatever15:24
jamespagecjwatson, OKies15:24
cjwatsonDaviey: who gets to deprecate prefixes on identifiers on a format I'm defining, if not me?15:24
cjwatsonjust curious15:25
mdeslaurhehe15:25
Davieycjwatson: IETF covention, not a mandate . http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc664815:26
cjwatsonnot sure what the IETF has to do with the price of bread here :)15:26
Davieycjwatson: Just conversion, not saying you cannot.15:27
cjwatsonI think file formats for packaging mechanisms designed to integrate with a particular product are a bit different from widespread interop protocols15:27
DavieySure.15:28
cjwatsonI do understand the IETF's reasoning, and considered it - but I think at least at the moment the introduction of new fields is going to be rapid enough that I'd prefer to have an explicit local marker15:28
Davieyagreed.15:29
cjwatsonmaybe once things settle down a bit and we have a clearer registry for manifest key names it will be easier15:30
cjwatsonfor now I just wanted to keep local things out of the way and not have to worry about them15:30
cjwatsonand sorry for being snippy, it's just a stressful project15:31
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infinity 3879 adconrad  20   0  872m 370m  12m R 100.9  2.3  63:42.74 unity-panel-ser16:00
infinity 7465 adconrad  20   0 3944m 3.4g 4548 R  95.6 21.6  19:00.93 indicator-sessi16:00
infinity^-- I can't be the only one seeing this on a regular basis?16:00
seb128infinity, it was fixed yesterday16:01
seb128infinity, but I guess you didn't kill/restart the service since the update16:01
infinityseb128: Oh, shiny.  I'll make with the upgrading.16:01
seb128infinity, https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/indicator-session/12.10.5daily13.06.19-0ubuntu216:01
infinityseb128: I hadn't upgraded at all since Friday or so.16:01
seb128k16:02
seb128upgrade, and kill indicator-session-service (it will respawn)16:02
seb128things should be happier then16:02
infinityseb128: That'll make unity-panel-service stop being sad too, or is that a different bug?16:02
seb128infinity, that seems like a different one but I'm unsure16:02
infinityFun.16:03
seb128kill the service as well16:03
seb128see if it comes back16:03
seb128if it does bug us16:03
jdstrandcjwatson: are the installation paths for click packages completely defined? ie, I know it is /opt and something with a reverse domain name, but I don't have the full path16:06
cjwatsonjdstrand: I expect to have to fiddle with them to support image-based upgrade layouts16:07
cjwatsonjdstrand: So, no, not set in stone yet16:07
cjwatsonjdstrand: Currently it's /opt/click.ubuntu.com/<app-id>/<version or "current">/, but the prefix part of that may have to change16:08
jdstrandcjwatson: ok, thanks16:08
ogra_Setting up lxc (0.9.0-0ubuntu16) ...16:20
ogra_chfn: PAM: System error16:20
ogra_adduser: `/usr/bin/chfn -f LXC dnsmasq lxc-dnsmasq' returned error code 1. Exiting.16:20
ogra_dpkg: error processing lxc (--configure):16:20
* ogra_ wonders if anyone has an idea how to work around this or if there is already some kind of standard reciepe 16:21
ogra_(this is inside a chroot)16:21
dokocjwatson, thanks for libtool16:25
cjwatsonyou're welcome16:25
xnoxdoko: there are android specific binutils patches in linaro build.16:26
xnoxdoko: building those now.16:26
ogra_oh16:30
ogra_i wonder if the quoting is broken in lxc's postinst16:30
ogra_hmm16:30
ev[17:33:19] <bdmurray> is it intended for the graph at https://errors.ubuntu.com/problem/27a5550c8a96660e9b19630655aa1c613772e29b to show the number of reports per day?16:38
ev[17:36:03] <bdmurray> The security team released a version of ubuntu-release-upgrader to security so I'm expecting to see less incidents per day but I don't know how to see if that is the case or not.16:38
ev(reposting here, so mpt can chime in if he so desires)16:38
evso, I think that's the purpose of the version table. You can see if there are instances in the new version without there being noise from users who don't have the latest version installed.16:38
mptev, yep. I wonder if it would be worthwhile adding the release date of each version to the version table?16:40
bdmurraythe version table doesn't tell how much more 89996 is than yesterday though16:41
mptev, bdmurray: If nearly all the reports for that error are in Ubuntu 12.10, why does 12.10 not show up in the graph?16:41
mptThe graph shows only Saucy, despite it having no errors in the table at all.16:41
evmpt: if you think it wouldn't add to information overload, sure. Any suggestions to improve that page are definitely welcome. Right now I think it looks a mess.16:42
evmpt: that's because the table back population job hasn't finished16:42
jamespage@pilot out16:42
=== udevbot changed the topic of #ubuntu-devel to: Ubuntu 13.04 released | Archive: open | Devel of Ubuntu (not support or app devel) | build failures -> http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/ftbfs/ | #ubuntu for support and discussion of lucid -> raring | #ubuntu-app-devel for app development on Ubuntu http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment | See #ubuntu-bugs for http://bit.ly/lv8soi | Patch Pilots:
mptev, is that a job that lags for every bucket?16:42
evmpt: no, it's accurate for new crashes16:43
tedgstgraber, Why do you have the dbus upstart job starting before the xsession one?16:43
evjust not ones before we added a new column family to track the relationship between releases, versions, and buckets16:43
ev(BucketVersions)16:43
mptok16:44
* dholbach hugs jamespage16:45
jamespagedholbach, managed to clear a few from the sponsoring list16:45
jamespagestill lots of old ones left tho16:45
mptev, the left edge of every Y axis label is cropped, but I suspect that's not because there's too little room, but because it's showing error counts rather than rates16:46
stgrabertedg: because in the standard Xsession, dbus-agent is spawned before anything that's part of the session, that's to ensure we do the same thing, otherwise things like input methods would fail to connect16:46
tedgstgraber, Sure, but wouldn't that be before gnome-session, not the job that sets the env vars?16:47
bdmurraympt: I want to be able to see if the error is occuring less now than it was.  Where would I look for that information?16:47
dholbachjamespage, yeah, I noticed - I'll take a look tomorrow :)16:47
evmpt: suggestions also welcome for dealing with very long stacktraces: https://errors.ubuntu.com/bucket/?id=/usr/sbin/NetworkManager:6:g_assertion_message:g_assertion_message_expr:handle_ip_config_timeout:real_act_stage4_ip6_config_timeout:nm_device_activate_ip6_config_timeout&format=json16:47
evI played with using an expander there, but I wasn't particularly fond of it. Was thinking about trying something cute, like a CSS terminal window with scrolling, but maybe that's really silly?16:47
evmpt: it's showing error rates, but yes, I've been working in spare moments today fixing the graphs16:48
evpossibly by moving from nvd3 to Rickshaw, since the former is somewhat dead upstream16:48
stgrabertedg: not sure I understand what you mean, anything that used to be part of the STARTUP command needs to be run after dbus is started, the only way of ensuring that this is done reliably with the env set for all the jobs is to do it before xsession-init can emit xsession16:49
tedgstgraber, So you're worried about the jobs that are start on xsession-init, not the xsession job itself.16:50
evmpt: padding values also welcome :-P16:50
tedgstgraber, Shouldn't those jobs be start on started dbus and xsession-init SESSION=foo ?16:51
mptev, I don't see how the error rate for an individual error could be on the order of 100 times the error rate for all errors combined.16:51
mpte.g. for 13.04 peaking in that particular error around 8.00, while the total error rate is around 0.08.16:51
evI suspect that's due to the small population size for 13.04 when that was recorded16:52
stgrabertedg: so let's say you have a job that needs to set an environment variable for the user session and depends on dbus, how would you do that without race conditions if dbus was started after xsession-init is done?16:52
evI was thinking about that last night. Tempted to filter out values if we have less than say, 100 machines16:52
* ev pulls up the current algorithm for that graph16:52
mptev, ah, so that will be fixed by the ramping anyway.16:52
evgood point16:53
stgrabertedg: all of the current conditions are designed so that all the user session environment is ready by the time xsession is emitted so that anything that starts after it inherits the full environment and we don't get into weird races16:53
tedgstgraber, That's specifically the issue I have :-)  start on "started dbus and xsession-init SESSION=ubuntu" is what I want.16:53
evso the graph is: number of instances for the bucket in the release / number of unique systems in a 90 period for the release16:54
tedgstgraber, The problem I have is that I want dbus to get that env var.16:54
evthe denominator is broken on production. It's using the number of unique systems in a 90 period for *all releases*16:54
tedgstgraber, Otherwise dbus activation doesn't get it.16:54
evfixed on http://poppy-dev.local/16:54
stgrabertedg: what env variable do you need dbus to get?16:54
tedgstgraber, I was looking at UNITY_MENUBAR_PROXY.16:54
evmpt: but I do worry that the error rates are such low values16:55
tedgstgraber, It's not for dbus itself, but for things that get dbus activated16:55
evhttp://poppy-dev.local/problem/88ac2e0e3a52787f78f23718c885431aba2a5f9c as one example16:55
* cjwatson read denominator as dominator (publisher component) and panicked16:55
ev(ignore the data in "what's unusual about this problem")16:55
stgrabertedg: and does that work if you turn off upstart user sessions? (it shouldn't)16:55
tedgstgraber, Right now it's being done by a script thrown in /etc, trying to "upstart-ize" it.16:56
tedgstgraber, So it builds the env before upstart runs today.16:56
evcjwatson: have we moved on from naming machines after fruits and minerals to characters from adult cinema?16:57
stgrabertedg: just keep it that way then, there's nothing wrong with setting environment variables in /etc/X11/Xsession.d under upstart user sessions16:57
tedgev, Quite clearly, we'll never run out of names with that scheme :-)16:57
stgrabertedg: the only case where you need to convert that stuff to user jobs is if you spawn a subprocess16:57
evtedg: :D16:57
tedgstgraber, Well, and the fact that to remove it you have to use purge :-/16:58
tedgstgraber, I imagine we'll (hopefully) not parse xsession.d for Unity 8 on Mir.16:59
cjwatsonev: you know about suggestions being dangerous sometimes, right?17:00
evthe Cassandra nodes are named after various demons. I wonder if this was foresight on elmo's part, knowing what would happen if we were allowed to throw massive amounts of data like heavy bricks at the webops team.17:00
stgrabertedg: probably not, though until then it's best not to break non-upstart sessions unless we really have to and in this case it doesn't sound like we do17:00
evcjwatson: lol17:01
mptbdmurray, if by "now" you mean "recent days", the graph would tell you that. If you mean "the current package version", the table would be a hint, but you couldn't tell whether it was low because the problem was fixed or just because no-one had updated.17:01
tedgstgraber, Well, it's kinda test case.  And these env vars are only used in ubuntu sessions (upstart).17:01
tedgstgraber, So here we're not going to break anyone else.17:01
bdmurraympt: I meant recent days so the graph sounds like a good place to look17:02
mptOnly three more weeks before the apparent Ubuntu 12.10 error rate climbs back above the apparent 12.04 rate :-]17:07
xnoxmpt: Ubuntu Visionary and Fortune Teller17:08
mptOkay, a bit more than three weeks. I predict July 27th.17:10
barrytedg: ping.  was wondering what if any documentation is available on using dbus-test-runner, and if it's possible to use from python.  i'm working on a new dbus service for the image based update client and i wanted to see if i could use d-t-r in my test suite17:30
tedgbarry, Uhm, I've written a couple of blog posts.  As far as the command line utility it should be usable anywhere.17:33
tedgbarry, There's also a library, it should work with GObject Introspection, but I haven't tried.17:33
tedgbarry, More out of not having a reason than and reason to believe it wouldn't work.17:33
tedgFigured someone would ask one day :-)17:34
barrytedg: today's the day! :)17:34
tedgHeh17:35
barrytedg: i think i found your blog.  i'll take a look there.17:35
tedgbarry, Are your tests using the glib mainloop?  The lib needs that.17:35
barrytedg: right now i have no dbus support or tests.  just gearing up for that now17:35
tedgbarry, Okay, cool.  I'd also recommend looking at the hud test suite.  It does a good job of using dbusmock and dbustest to bring things together.17:36
=== halfie is now known as halfie|zzz
barrytedg: this?  http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~unity-team/unity/trunk/files/head:/tests/17:37
tedgbarry, No, here: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~indicator-applet-developers/hud/trunk.13.10/files/head:/tests/17:38
barrytedg: cool, thanks17:38
cjwatsondoko: Please could you merge libapache2-mod-perl2?  Blocks several bits of the Apache 2.4 transition17:42
dokocjwatson, ok17:48
Bayooi18:03
Bayooi oi18:04
sladenBayo: hello18:08
zulcan an archive admin please review python-amqp please, openstack is kind of broken right now because of it18:26
Davieyzul: if nobody offers before hand, i will after i have eaten18:32
zulDaviey:  cool thanks18:32
infinitytumbleweed: The logtail for https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/pypy/2.0.2+dfsg-4/+build/4754026 hasn't moved in a day or so.  Should I assume it's given up trying to do whatever happens next?18:37
tumbleweedinfinity: the thing that comes next is a make18:39
tumbleweedwell, once pyhon has shut down18:39
tumbleweedI've seen it stick there before on buildds, but never been able to investigate18:39
infinityCurious.  I wonder what it's doing there.18:39
tumbleweedanyway, you are welcome to kill it if you're still expecting better ARM buildds soon18:42
infinitytumbleweed: We have them, but they're being tested currently.18:42
infinitytumbleweed: If being hung there isn't directly a result of having crap memory I/O, though, perhaps this is something worth debugging.18:43
tumbleweedI always assumed that when builds died here, it was because it took too long to get everything off swap during GCing all the objects in python shutdown18:43
tumbleweeds/died/timed out/18:43
infinitytumbleweed: So, it's still doing... Something.18:45
infinitytumbleweed: http://paste.ubuntu.com/5838153/18:45
infinitytumbleweed: Note the python in D state with a bazillion hours of CPU time.18:45
tumbleweedthat's the translation. I guess it's blocking on that runsubprocess18:46
tumbleweedwhatever that is doing...18:46
infinityYeah, no idea.18:47
infinityI'm going to kill it and retry on a Calxeda node once they're in place.18:47
infinityAnd if that doesn't happen before we ship saucy, I'll remove the armhf binaries so it can all migrate for you.18:47
* tumbleweed sees mentions of a pypy 2.1 branch in #pypy18:48
tumbleweedinfinity: thanks18:48
=== Nisstyre-laptop is now known as Nisstyre
=== _ffio_ is now known as ffio
Davieyzul: accepted, but i'd love to see a python3 package...19:05
zulDaviey:  so would i19:05
zulDaviey:  thanks19:05
Davieyzul: is there a py3 issue with it?19:15
zulDaviey:  no i was more focused getting it on packaged19:16
Davieyzul: It will still need an MIR, right?19:16
jtayloras you may be at new'ing can you have a look at pyparsing3?19:16
zulDaviey:  correct19:16
jtaylorpytohn3-pyparsing19:16
Davieyjtaylor: Hmm, i'm not seeing it in the queue ?19:17
jtaylorhm, no idea19:18
jtaylorits in debian since more than a month19:18
Davieyjtaylor: hmm, it looks like you last touched it in ubuntu raring, and introduced a delta :)19:19
jtayloryes but there is a new source now19:20
Davieyjtaylor: So we can just sync this?19:20
jtaylordoesn't it count as new?19:20
Daviey(sorry, you didn't introduce a delta)19:20
jtaylorautosync doesn'T pick it up19:20
Davieyjtaylor: Nah, you can just sync ontop19:20
jtaylormaybe because of the delta19:20
Davieyyep19:20
Davieyif there is ubuntu in the version string, it doesn't auto sync19:21
jtaylorpython-pyparsing and python3-pyparsing are two different source packages19:21
DavieyOh!19:21
jtaylorsyncing pyparsing and new'ing python3-pyparsing should be done close together to not lose the py3 package for too long19:22
Davieyjtaylor: Okay, I've caught up now.. Thanks for outling it. :)19:27
infinityjtaylor: If the binary package name is the same, NEWing the new source first is the sane way to go.19:30
jtaylorI assumed that, thus I didn't sync yet :)19:30
infinityLet me look at that after I've upgraded my kernel and rebooted. :P19:31
infinity(I assume the new source is in the queue?)19:31
Davieyinfinity: I just did it.19:31
infinityOh.19:31
infinityDid you new it to a sane component (ie: wherever it was before)?19:31
DavieyI did indeed NEW it first, but perhaps i should have left a publisher run between it.19:31
infinityAhh, it's in universe anyway.  So, that's easy.19:32
Davieyinfinity: i don't believe anything needs python3-parsing yet in main, so universe is fine19:33
Daviey()the previous was also universe19:33
jtaylorbinary packages can be split between two components?19:34
infinityjtaylor: Yep.19:34
jtayloris that new?19:34
infinityNo.19:34
jtayloroh, right but build depends must all be main for main packages19:35
* infinity actually accepts that sync. :P19:35
jtaylorbriefly though I split up fftw3 for nothing :)19:35
infinityjtaylor: Right, the source can't be split, so needs to be in the lowest-common-denominator component.19:35
DavieyIt was planned to make it so some trivial build deps could remain in universe, but I believe that work was put on hold.19:36
DavieyWhilst we are on that topic... infinity - Would you be able to work on bug 888665 soon.. we could really do with that...19:37
ubottubug 888665 in Launchpad itself "Backports can't build-depend on other backports" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/88866519:37
infinityOh, did we finally come up with a critical use-case for that?19:37
infinityIs said critical use-case in the archive now?  That'll make it easier to verify a fix.19:38
Davieyinfinity: Yes juju-core preicse backports19:38
Davieyprecse*19:38
DavieyBAH.19:38
infinityI suppose I can't get away with saying that not having those is a feature? :P19:38
LaneyPretty sure there's been something in mumble-backports waiting on that for a while19:39
stgrabercouldn't it be worked around in nonvirt PPA + copy?19:39
infinityLaney: Good old something in some series somewhere. :)19:39
stgraberI thought we said that'd be the temporary workaround until we get LP fixed19:39
DavieyAnd jamespage also wanted to do some java jenkins stuff19:39
Laneyinfinity: I'm just saying that any new package doesn't make it more critical ;-)19:39
infinitystgraber: That's a perfectly reasonable workaround for Canonical folk, yeah.19:39
Davieyinfinity: If it's not a ball breaker, i'd rather not use any bypasses.19:40
infinityDaviey: Am I to assume that backport juju-core and golang to precise is because you intend to actually recommend that combination to your users?19:41
infinityAnd do we then get to get into discussions of supportability, the insanity of static linking, etc? :P19:41
infinity(But yeah, I can look at 888665 soon)19:41
Davieyinfinity: Yeah, Precise is very relevant to users of juju it seems.. and introducing whacking new features as SRU is bad mkay.19:41
infinityI think the initial "this isn't quite perfect, but would be an acceptable workaround" solution won't be much hassle to jam in.19:42
DavieyYeah, that avoids blocking.19:42
LaneyAh, could be the one in the description that I'm thinking of19:42
infinityDaviey: Introducting new features as SRUs is bad, but if we're going to be semi-officially recommending people use those new features in parallel packages in a non-supported pocket, I'm not sure that's "better".19:42
Laneywhich is natty and so definitly super critical :)19:42
infinityDaviey: It's an end-run around policy that's in place specifically to protect users from what you're asking them to do. :P19:42
Davieyinfinity: 'Supported' in this case is very much in the eye of the beholder. :)19:43
infinityjtaylor: Alright, new py3parsing source and binaries are in.19:44
jtaylorgreat thx19:44
infinityDaviey: I'm not sure I want to know what you mean by that.19:44
infinityDaviey: If you mean that Canonical, who has committed to 5yr support in the LTS, is dropping upstream support for one of its own projects, I might have to be a bit miffed by that.19:45
Davieyinfinity: No, incorrect on 2 counts.19:46
DavieyOne, juju is not in main for 12.04.19:46
DavieyTwo, Supporting both is viable, and fixing bugs by SRU criteria for a universe package is also OK19:47
infinityOkay, not in main, fair.  Though we push it pretty heavily as a pseudo-supported tech.19:47
LaneySounds like it's more of a new series thing19:47
DavieyWhich, unless i am mistaken, is what backports is precisely for?19:47
infinityI've always felt "it's not good enough for main, but it's good enough for us to widely advertise and encourage use" is a pretty sad cop-out to avoid having to live by the rules of main.19:47
DavieyNoted.19:48
infinityDaviey: Is there a fundamental reason why juju-core can't be made to work with go 1.0, while we're on the topic?20:00
infinityDaviey: backports has a policy of not allowing toolchain backports, but rather making the backported applications be modified to work with older toolchains.20:01
infinityDaviey: I realize that go has far fewer users in the archive than GCC, but I'm not sure that should buy it a pass.20:01
TDO|Aquinahy20:08
slangasekcjwatson: so I've finally gotten the gnu-efi problems from raring vis-a-vis shim sorted out, if only by virtue of pulling a new upstream version of gnu-efi20:08
slangasekwhich means I've also now uploaded shim 0.420:08
slangasekthough before I send that off for signing, I think we should probably figure out what we're doing with MokManager and add that to the package20:09
slangasekand as the catalyst for this has been an OEM bug, I'm going to have to figure out what to do for 12.04.3... not sure that pulling all of gnu-efi + shim back is a sensible SRU, not sure trying to cherry-pick from shim is sensible either20:11
slangasekah, fortunately shim FTBFS happily for me after upload even though it built fine here, so I guess I don't have to worry about *that* binary getting signed :P20:12
Davieyinfinity: If anything else depended on this compiler, then there is a risk of an issue.  I am not sure I have ever read this in policy, can you direct me to where that is?20:13
DavieyThe version of the compiler is too basic in the one in stock precise AIUI.  Doesn't have required features, but I can't speak authoritative about that.20:13
infinityDaviey: To be fair, I'm not seeing the "no toolchains" explicitly mentioned in the backport docs, rather than it being, perhaps, one of those "well, duh" things, as it would apply to, say, eglibc and GCC.20:15
infinityDaviey: It's true that very few things {build-,}dep on golang, which gives it a free pass in a lot of areas (backportability, static linking, etc), but it would be nice if we behaved AS IF it were widely-used and established sane policies around that.20:15
DavieyI don't see how they are the same thing..20:15
DavieyI agree, but that is not the situation we are currently in20:16
infinityDaviey: You don't see how a compiler and standard library aren't the same as a compiler and standard library?20:16
DavieyNo, i don't see how a compiler that has a 1:1 mapping with a package, and gcc are in the same category20:16
infinityRight, so you're taking the "no one uses Go, so it doesn't count as a toolchain package" argument.  Like I said, I can see that, in the short term.20:17
infinityLong-term, it'll establish poor policy.20:17
infinityAssuming other people write things in Go some day. :P20:17
DavieyNaturally, it becomes more complex with increasing popularity20:17
DavieyGo is still a young language, and the compiler has made radical differences since the version in 12.0420:18
infinitySure.  Intentionally targetting something to a newer language version *and* saying "oh, and we want this in precise" should have been a non-starter, but I understand you probably didn't have much say in that.20:19
Sarvattwhy not name the package different, and SRU it instead if backports is a problem? kind of like mesa lts backports and llvm-3.x updates directly in precise-updates for it20:20
infinityWouldn't be much different to someone writing something with shiny new C11/C++11 features and then demanding gcc-4.8 in precise.20:20
DavieySo, we have a choice.. deliver a poor experience, because it looks clean to you.. based on an undocumented made-upon-the-fly policy, or do the best thing for a vobrant project and it's users.  Not to mention people wanting to have a packaged backport of an increasingly popular language20:20
infinitySarvatt: Backports isn't inherently a problem, I can fix the bug, or we can build in a PPA.  It's the principle of backporting toolchains that I'm arguing right now.20:21
infinitySarvatt: And the llvm thing is a horrible compromise for the HWE stack but, yes, versioning the compiler could work in this case.20:22
infinityWait a second.20:24
infinity"In order to backport juju-core we'll need go 1.1"20:24
infinity^-- How can that be true, when we don't even have go 1.1 in raring or saucy?20:25
infinity(Yes, it's in saucy-proposed, but that means that juju-core demanded that dep only a month ago...)20:25
infinityIf it needs 1.0.2, we could happily SRU that as a microrelease, if it's not completely insane.20:25
* slangasek looks at the shim build failure. wtfbbq20:28
infinityslangasek: That could do with a bit more verbosity...20:29
slangasekit rather could, couldn't it20:30
slangasekapparently 'openssl' is needed at build time20:30
infinityslangasek: You'll be happy(?) to know that it fails the same locally, at least.20:30
slangasekyeah, not sure how openssl got into my scratch chroot20:31
infinityslangasek: It used to be accidentally build-essential once upon a time, so you might have picked it up back then and never cleaned up.20:31
slangasekah, could be20:32
infinitySomeone should publish pitti's recipe for using sbuild backed by launchpad chroot tarballs.20:32
infinityComes pretty close to foolproof for debugging.20:32
DavieyI'd like to see openssl in build-essential :)20:33
slangasekoh eew, something must've gone really wrong with a snapshot20:33
slangasekbecause cdbs is also in this chroot20:33
infinityslangasek: PURGE WITH FIRE.20:33
infinityslangasek: YOU CAN'T UNINSTALL EVIL.20:33
slangasekinfinity: E: Command line option --with-fire is not understood20:34
* infinity passes slangasek a lighter.20:34
slangaseksudo apt-get purge --with-fire cdbs?20:34
Davieyinfinity: I will circle back to the juju team and find out more detail on why they need a more recent toolchain.  Note, that most of their development is happening in PPA's at the moment rather than saucy (they are working to fix this)... So.. don't work too much on dates.20:34
jbichaslangasek: always use -f20:34
infinityslangasek: http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/1999/07/2820:35
slangasekheh20:35
infinityslangasek: The date on that comic makes me feel old.  That can't possibly have been 14 years ago.20:39
slangasekinfinity: yeah, that was like, pre-php20:40
slangasekhardly seems possible20:40
LaneyI was 1320:40
Laneyxnox was probably about to be born20:40
slangasekLaney: high-five for making infinity feel old20:40
* infinity sobs quietly in the corner.20:40
Laney:-)20:41
* czajkowski hands infinity some cake 20:48
xnoxLaney: that year my 10th birthday party was in McDonalds20:57
adam_gmterry, heya, is there anything i need to do to progress https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/python-tidylib/+bug/1187185 ?21:33
ubottuLaunchpad bug 1187185 in python-tidylib (Ubuntu) "[MIR] python-tidylib" [Undecided,Fix committed]21:33
mterryadam_g, feel free to have cheetah now depend on python-markdown, and an archive admin will promote as needed21:34
mterryadam_g, oh wait21:34
mterryadam_g, python-markdown itself isn't approved yet21:35
mterryadam_g, bug 118719121:35
ubottubug 1187191 in python-markdown (Ubuntu) "[MIR] python-markdown" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/118719121:35
mterryadam_g, waiting on a security review21:35
adam_gmterry, right. iw as gonna ping someone in security about that one21:35
adam_gthanks21:36
mterryadam_g, OK.  Once all the MIRs are fix-committed, just have something pull them into main.  Archive admins will see the mismatch (something wants to be in main and will promote if the paperwork checks out)21:36
=== salem_ is now known as _salem
tjaaltonis there a straightforward way for apt to use a usb stick as a source?21:41
tjaaltonbah, I'll just reinstall the machine21:42
tjaaltonno working networking hw on it which means no (easy) updates21:43
sarnoldhrm, there used to be a "sneaker net" package for apt..21:46
=== wedgwood is now known as wedgwood_away

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