[06:42] <dholbach> good morning
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[16:18] <ilyes39> hi
[16:19] <ilyes39> ubuntu is the best
[16:19] <ilyes39> i wanna ask something please
[16:19] <ilyes39> ?
[16:20] <lubuntu> I saw it on facebook.
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[16:20] <Guest98828> Long life to Linux !
[16:23] <andrew> hiiiiiiiiiiiii
[16:24] <andrew> hiiiiiiiii
[16:24] <Arfphis> hello
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[16:31] <vinfinity> sup guise?
[16:38] <Guest98828> hello guys
[16:43] <Battaglin> hui
[16:43] <Battaglin> hi* even
[16:45] <kunjappi> ubuntu 13.10
[16:45] <kunjappi> when it release
[16:45] <kunjappi> waiting for that
[16:46] <Battaglin> yup
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[16:50] <semiguel1998> Alguien Habla español
[16:51] <tegnel> ok
[16:54] <xubuntuisbetter> yo
[16:55] <blydro> Better be on time today....
[16:57] <xubuntuisbetter> thats  negative
[16:57] <xubuntuisbetter> this is ubuntu, only thing in schedule r da releases
[17:00] <pritz> Hi @
[17:01] <dholbach> are we live? :)
[17:01] <redkiwi> ka
[17:01] <netcurli> I can see you
[17:01] <Battaglin> yup
[17:01] <SimonK1> i see you
[17:01] <xubuntuisbetter> i can see you
[17:01] <redkiwi> live
[17:01] <dholbach> jono, looks like we're live :)
[17:01] <xubuntuisbetter> sexy
[17:01] <jdrab> yes
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[17:01] <Richie442> yay!
[17:01] <dholbach> :-D
[17:01] <jdrab> we see you!
[17:01] <jdrab> :D
[17:01] <dddkiddd> i can see you
[17:02] <Acil> i can see :)
[17:02] <tegnel> so it my firt way to be hear
[17:02] <Battaglin> I seee you... ( Shakin that a.. ) :-P
[17:02] <austin_powers_12> yep!
[17:02] <ZionPTM> Can't watch on YouTube for Android. :(
[17:02] <pritz> ok...everything clear! looks to be live!
[17:03] <dholbach> if you ask questions, please make sure you prefix them with QUESTION: so they standout
[17:04] <jdrab> awesome
[17:06] <SimonK1> QUESTION: is wayland like qt 2 Years ago? So is it just not "good enough" atm or is it like gnome-shell, to which Ubuntu won't switch "back"?
[17:08] <Battaglin> thnx
[17:12] <Siper> wat
[17:12] <janepatrick> a good update
[17:13] <mutahhar> hi everyboy
[17:13] <kgunn>  http://unity.ubuntu.com/getinvolved/development/unity8
[17:15] <janepatrick> good one
[17:15]  * janepatrick slaps ChanServ around a bit with a large trout
[17:17] <jono> get your questions in folks
[17:17] <jono> type 'QUESTION' and then your question
[17:18] <krrish> Hye
[17:18] <Siper> QUESTION
[17:18] <blydro> yes?
[17:19] <SimonK1> QUESTION: how is "click" handling architectures x86, armhf and multi-arch?
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[17:20] <cheerockie> Hello everyone
[17:20] <kgunn> SimonK1: wrt your earlier question about wayland, i wouldn't want to draw on any historical analogies or go into any expansion on reasons that have already been discussed at length about our choice, but rather just a statement that our efforts are going into mir
[17:20] <Ravinj> Can we have Ubuntu supporting 3D printing
[17:21] <docwes> Hi all
[17:21] <SimonK1> kgunn, i see
[17:21] <Siper> QUESTION: What about Mir?
[17:22] <kgunn> SimonK1: wrt click..I'm not completely certain what you're after...can you rephrase/expand maybe ?
[17:24] <kgunn> Siper: in the next hour (top of the hour) we're going to have an expanded session on mir
[17:24] <dholbach> kgunn, I'll take SimonK1's question
[17:24] <SimonK1> QUESTION: [rephrased] do I, as a developer, have to pack one click-package per supported architecture?
[17:25] <dholbach> (and answer in a bit once we get to the Q&A)
[17:25] <kgunn> dholbach: SimonK1 sorry....thot it was a ques about "click" like mouse input :) sorry
[17:25] <unixpablo> I have to many problems with the X11 and a think that the Wayland will go to the same way.
[17:25] <jono> get your questions in folks :-)
[17:26] <unixpablo> So I support 100% the Mir project. Congratulation to the Ubuntu.
[17:26] <SimonK1> QUESTION: [rephrased] If I'm developing a huge app, do I have to upload my data-files for every architecture with my "click"-package?
[17:27] <dholbach> SimonK1, short answer: initially yes, implementation of "fat packages" (shipping code for multiple architectures in one package) is still being discussed - one good summary of the current discussion here: https://lists.launchpad.net/ubuntu-appstore-developers/msg00067.html
[17:28] <dholbach> in the first incarnation of click and the appstore you'll have to upload them separately AFAIK, but make yourself heard on the mailing list - just join https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-appstore-developers
[17:28] <jono> any other questions, folks?
[17:28] <jono> I will go through them in a second
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[17:29] <jdrab> QUESTION: in Canonicals individual contribution agreement ( http://www.canonical.com/sites/default/files/active/images/Canonical-HA-CLA-ANY-I.pdf ) - section 2.3 there is this line "We may license the Contribution under any license, including copyleft,permissive, commercial, or proprietary licenses." Can you explain how this applies to mir and unity if someone from "community" contributes to mir or unity? According to CAL it possible for
[17:29] <jdrab>  Canonical to lock this software under some proprietary license,right? I'm asking because of some FUD out there.
[17:29] <who_me> QUESTION: How will switching from open-source video drivers to proprietary ones work since Mir will probably only work on the open-source ones in 13.10. Will it be easy to revert back from proprietary to open-source ones?
[17:31] <mramm> QUESTION: (just a reminder) What is the charm championship?  How much can I win, and how can I find out more?
[17:33] <jdrab> mramm: https://plus.google.com/116015965439782966698/posts/P5SGqTwxBKm
[17:35] <who_me> QUESTION: Are there plans to add never versions of proprietary video drivers to Ubuntu 12.04 to support newer cards from Nvidia (the 700 series) and AMD?
[17:35] <SimonK1> QUESTION: Are "click"-packages build to expand the "requested api"s? Now we have "Ubuntu-SDK" how likely will this change?
[17:36] <dholbach> SimonK1, I'm not sure what "requested api's" means?
[17:36] <kgunn> who_me: wrt open source vs proprietary drivers on mir, the current xmir has a fallback mechanism which will continue boot in "standalone X" if it discovers you have drivers that aren't supporting the mir driver model
[17:37] <jdrab> QUESTION: how do i get rid of that second cursor in xmir? :)
[17:37] <SimonK1> dholbach: the "one depency", which this package has. All "click"-packages are (currently) depending on ubuntu-sdk
[17:38] <SimonK1> QUESTION: Am I currently able to listen to mp3 via ubuntu-music-app?
[17:38] <dholbach> SimonK1, ah yes - to be honest, I'm not quite sure how additional (non-SDK dependencies) are being handled - I think last I heard was something about bundling, but I can find out for you
[17:38] <kgunn> jdrab: i'm not a lawyer, but i believe the spirit wrt licensing is about discouraging fragmentation
[17:38] <jdrab> SimonK1: you have a lot of questions :D
[17:39] <dholbach> as I said: a good place to ask is the https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-appstore-developers mailing list
[17:39] <SimonK1> jdrab, I've missed the last one by one hour :(
[17:40] <SimonK1> because of UTC to MET confusion
[17:40] <kgunn> jdrab: wrt second cursor, working on it :)....however its a nice cheap way to know your on xmir :)
[17:40] <jdrab> kgunn: i personaly think that the software is safe if it's under gnu gpl but there are a lot of trolls and ugly people out there who will bash canonical because of CAL :]
[17:41] <SimonK1> dholbach, I know about the "bundling"-plans. What I'm asking about is an older idea of "Frameworks" (QT-Framework, GTK-Framework, SDL-Framework, ...)
[17:41] <dholbach> SimonK1, I don't know about any of these, I'm afraid
[17:42] <mramm> https://juju.ubuntu.com/charm-championship/
[17:42] <SimonK1> dholbach, i see... Maybe this is just something that will pop up then^^
[17:42] <SimonK1> * pop up later then
[17:47] <Chirag> why still we need OS to install manually... why it couldnt be on cloud so we can login easily and operate our data....
[17:47] <unixpablo> When the friend-app will come to the Ubuntu 12.04 LTS. I won't use a version no-LTS of this system, is to hard for me.
[17:47] <unixpablo> ?
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[17:50] <SimonK1> QUESTION: What FPS-difference (in percentage) between XMir and X.org are planed for 13.10 (see http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=ubuntu_xmir_benchmark&num=1 for background infos)
[17:51] <Chirag> New LTS release is better or  worst than 12.04
[17:53] <jdrab> kgunn: so that second cursor in xmir, is it supposed to move on different speed than the primary one? :D
[17:53] <Chirag> in 12.04 many issues and lot's of bugs found afterwards
[17:54] <BobbieD> QUESTION: Is there a list of the supported video driver MIR will support on Ubuntu? I have an old Radeon HD 5400
[17:55] <jdrab> wee 2hours that's awesome 8)
[17:57] <cooldudeabhi> about gaming on ubuntu: every dev is producing games for windows but its still to hard to install games like gta4 with wine.....are u guys planning to launch an app with mount .exe better so everyone can easily switch over to ubuntu completly?
[17:58] <SimonK1> Oha, someone is hitting the keyboard^^
[18:00] <Chirag> libreoffice has lots of issues ... please ssolved it first
[18:03] <Ika> QUESTION how will mir compare to X in terms of game performance?
[18:03] <who_me> QUESTION: Will Qt and GTK support Mir or will Canonical have to maintain separate patches?
[18:03] <Blastodon> is the youtube window stuck on the circle loading screen for anyone else?
[18:04] <jdrab> Blastodon: nope
[18:04] <Billynkid> Blastodon:not here
[18:04] <Blastodon> well let me refresh
[18:05] <Blastodon> Ok now it's saying please stand by
[18:06] <SimonK1> QUESTION: Will I have one big XMir window, with "emulated sub-windows" on my Mir-Desktop (like starting wine with an emulated desktop resolution) or will every Window be a window composized/decorated by Mir?
[18:12] <kgunn> SimonK1: you can think in xmir its still x with compiz as you windowmgr/compositor....with mir as an addition, being a system-compositor (e.g. greeter & desktop could not be blended nicely, flicker free start)
[18:15] <kgunn> Ika: we do plan to add bypass composition so hopefully it will be roughly the same...from an overhead perspective the game has to do its rendering bit via gl...composition bypass simply allows for avoiding what ends up being a full screen copy (read/write of pixels)...this is kind of standard industry fare
[18:17] <SimonK1> kgunn, i fear my question wasn't as clear as i hoped: If I have an "legacy - application" running on XMir, which has 2 Windows, will Mir just show something like a "virtual desktop" with 2 windows, decorated by "compiz"?
[18:18] <RAOF> SimonK1: From Mir's perspective (at the moment) XMir is just a single big fullscreen window.
[18:18] <Ika> sounds like a bad turn for linux gaming
[18:18] <SimonK1> RAOF, i see _=
[18:18] <SimonK1> QUESTION: Will every fullscreen-game be able to ruin my desktop-resolution if the game segfaults, like in X?
[18:20] <slangasek> Ika: gaming will typically be full-screen and use the bypass feature olli mentioned will be implemented
[18:20] <slangasek> as RAOF is currently describing :)
[18:21] <olli> slangasek, we have quite some lag between stream and IRC I believe
[18:22] <slangasek> quite possibly!  hello, greetings from the future
[18:25] <olli> tvoss, pls share your diffstat again
[18:25] <olli> this is to support xmir impact on vanilla x
[18:26] <tvoss> olli, here we go: http://paste.ubuntu.com/5797514/
[18:27] <jdrab> QUESTION: can you explain the difference for me as a user when using server allocated buffers in mir and client allocated buffers aka "how the wayland is doing it" ? mir is using server allocated buffers because of arm right?
[18:28] <SimonK1> QUESTION: Will I be able to set a color-profile per monitor?
[18:31] <SimonK1> QUESTION: Is Mir tested against FPS- or Powerusage-regressions?
[18:31] <HappyHoward> @jdrab wayland can do server side buffer allocation too.
[18:31] <SimonK1> QUESTION: If Mir is more strickt with inputs and outputs. Will this restrict the VNC/Teamviewer-usage?
[18:32] <jdrab> HappyHoward: hmm didn't know about it
[18:32] <SimonK1> QUESTION: Is the "middle-click-past" of selected text available in Mir?
[18:34] <RAOF> SimonK1: Shell-dependent. In XMir? Sure. For Unity8 we probably won't have three separate clipboard mechanisms, though ☺
[18:35] <RAOF> jdrab: There's no difference as a user between server allocated and client allocated buffer.
[18:35] <slangasek> oh no, you're not getting rid of middle-click paste in Unity 8?!
[18:35] <SimonK1> :( that is the reason why i can't use Win8 anymore^^
[18:35] <slangasek> I may have to rethink my support of this strategy now ;-)
[18:35] <SimonK1> @slangasek we have to start a revolt^^
[18:36] <slangasek> SimonK1: nah, I just have to convince RAOF to keep middle-click paste support, just without the multiple different clipboards ;-)
[18:36] <SimonK1> ... no revolt? sad panda^^
[18:36] <beuno> YES
[18:36] <beuno> no more multiple clipboards FTW
[18:37] <Richie442> QUESTION: Is there any possible chance, that 13.10 ( Mir and XMir with open- source drivers) will increase the performance of Ubuntu desktop respectively Unity 7?
[18:38] <Klau3> Will 13.10 provide a flicker free boot and shutdown?
[18:39] <slangasek> Richie442: it's possible, but any such result would be a fluke; the fact that Mir + XMir + Unity 7 still uses the existing X APIs means it will still have the same performance limitations as Unity 7 today - the performance limitations that generated interest in converting to a new architecture in the first place
[18:39] <kgunn> Richie442: nope, it'll in effect be the same, you still have the full x stack there...xmir is just a system comp
[18:39] <SimonK1> @slangasek, i fear I don't know "clipboards" this well. are "Middle-Click" and "Ctrl+V" two clipboards? or is "Middle-Click" by itself multiple clipboards?
[18:40] <slangasek> SimonK1: the mouse cursor left-click-drag highlight, middle-click paste is one clipboard in X; ^C+^V is a different one
[18:40] <slangasek> and some applications sync the two
[18:40] <slangasek> but it's application-dependent
[18:40] <SimonK1> I see
[18:40] <kgunn> Klau3: flicker free is on the todo list, admittedly we're focusing on a couple of other things first...multimonitor, composition bypass
[18:41] <Klau3> cool
[18:41] <beuno> slangasek, and what are the chances that'll also fix the "copy from an app, close the app, loose the clipboard" problem?
[18:41] <SimonK1> @slangasek, so if they are merged "^C + ^V" will do exactly the same as "Middle-Click"?
[18:41] <kgunn> Klau3: something we/i want...just not quite ready to make a commitment statement here
[18:41] <slangasek> beuno: I'm not the person to speak to that :)
[18:41] <slangasek> SimonK1: that's the idea, yes
[18:41] <RAOF> beuno: If we *don't* solve that problem it'll be a big.
[18:41] <RAOF> s/big/bug/
[18:41] <HappyHoward> QUESTION: Earlier you said you would break API/ABI at your whim. Is this still true?
[18:42] <beuno> RAOF, woooooo! you'll close an early 5 digit bug!  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/11334
[18:42] <SimonK1> hm, thats sad though
[18:42] <beuno> RAOF, and become my instant best friend
[18:42] <RAOF> HappyHoward: I don't think we said that at all?
[18:42] <beuno> I'll let my current best friend know their status is at risk
[18:43] <HappyHoward> What did you sy then?
[18:43] <popey> \o/ FINALLY! I'll have Ubuntu on my fridge!
[18:43] <tvoss> popey, ;)
[18:43] <beuno> RAOF, so I can assign that bug to you?  ;)
[18:44] <RAOF> HappyHoward: That we don't support a *protocol* , and we make no guarantees that we won't break the protocol.
[18:44] <HappyHoward> QUESTION: Regarding the API/ABI stability what is your stance. That may be a better question.
[18:44] <RAOF> HappyHoward: Our API/ABI will stabilise and then we won't break it.
[18:46] <SimonK1> QUESTION: Will plymouth be using Mir? (I heared rumors^^)
[18:46] <slangasek> SimonK1: we hope so
[18:46] <slangasek> the code is yet to be written :)
[18:47] <HappyHoward> RAOF: The protocol part sounds fine, since it's internal to mir.
[18:47] <beuno> mramm, has the best hair in this hangout
[18:47] <SimonK1> QUESTION: Will I still be able to configure my Wacom? I'm using xsetwacom
[18:48] <tvoss> slangasek, oh, we have a plymouth integration patch :)
[18:48] <tvoss> slangasek, it was our test-bed for non-accelerated clients
[18:48] <slangasek> tvoss: oh, hmm!  merge proposal on lp:ubuntu/plymouth, please
[18:48] <tvoss> slangasek, +1 :)
[18:49] <slangasek> robert_ancell had sent me a link to some code, but implied that it wasn't ready for prime time yet
[18:50] <tvoss> slangasek, I will check with alf :)
[18:50] <slangasek> ok, cool
[18:53] <Nicolascage> I switched to ubuntu and i'm loving it, thanks guitar and glasses dude! (forgot your name, sorry!)
[18:54] <beuno> lol jono ^
[18:56] <who_me> QUESTION: Will Mir make it easier for people trying to write a screen recording application?
[18:57] <glome> QUESTION: Does Mir use server or client side window decorations?
[18:58] <slangasek> jono: sorry, that's the sound of my laptop taking off because I don't have Unity 8 here yet to reduce its power consumption
[18:58] <popey> hah, i can hear someone's laptop about to take off..
[18:58] <jono> slangasek, :-)
[18:58] <popey> Go Google hangout plugin, go!
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[19:02] <who_me> thanks, this has been great
[19:02] <popey> nice work guys
[19:02] <jdrab> wee awesome 2hours
[19:02] <Richie442> nice :)
[19:03] <Richie442> Bye all... :)