=== Trixar_za is now known as Trix[a]r_za
=== ThatGraemeGuy_ is now known as ThatGraemeGuy
=== Neo31-desk is now known as Neo31
=== ThatGraemeGuy is now known as Guest56135
Kilosmorning all06:23
Kilosoh my the fly is gone06:24
Symmetriaugh I think I just broke my SA box 06:40
SymmetriaI edited /etc/NetworkManager/system-connections/Wired\ connection \106:42
Symmetriato add an ipv6 manual address06:42
Symmetriaand the moment I hit save, didnt even restart anything06:42
Symmetriaconnectivity dies06:42
SymmetriaI presume that file is monitored or something by the system for changes?06:42
=== who_da_fly is now known as superfly
Guest56135morning peoples07:03
=== magespawn_ is now known as magespawn
Kiloshi superfly magespawn 07:05
Kiloswhat happened superfly ? everything was offline07:06
superflyKilos: I don't know. Ask Freenode07:06
Kilosoh them ya07:06
magespawngood morning Kilos superfly07:07
superflyhi magespawn07:10
superflyhi ThatGraemeGuy07:10
magespawnsuperfly i am back on the n900 the samsung was just giving me too many problems07:15
Kilosoh my07:17
Kilosrouter stops my 3g working07:17
Kilosnew name for the the is ratter07:18
magespawnKilos did you not get them all talking nicely the other day?07:30
Kilosya the tablet saw the router and i could drag/drop to tablet but have got it to share 3g yet now today it kills my 3g signal07:32
magespawnsounds like a setting has reset itself07:34
Kilosi can hold the reset button again and try07:35
Kiloshere goes07:40
magespawnthe reset button on the router will just set it back to factory settings07:41
=== Kilos- is now known as Kilos
Kiloscold here today, they say 18°c max07:47
Kilosi like even nights to be 20°c07:48
magespawncols all over it looks like, here is supposed to be 2107:52
Kiloswb superfly 07:55
superflyseriously? *sigh*07:57
Kilosyea sorry07:58
magespawnhappening a lot lately it seems08:05
Kilosour za internet sucks08:05
superflyno, this is Freenode08:11
superflymy IRC connection is based in the USA08:11
Kiloswhy they dropping you today?08:11
superflyand my other IRC networks have not gone down08:11
superflyjust Freenode08:11
Kilosi have 2 different android live cds here but both stick at detecting android-X86 and fill screen with .........08:17
Kiloshi mazal 08:17
mazalGaanit oom ?08:17
Kilosmazal why not convert everything to one format08:17
Kiloskoud en self08:18
mazalRe the dvd's you talking about ?08:18
Kiloshave a look at mobile media converter or mmediac i thinks it might be called now08:18
Kilosya for the dvds08:19
mazalConverting is not the problem08:19
mazalIt's building the dvd that is08:19
Kiloscan you just burn them to dvd with k3b08:19
mazalI have many converters , but then you must "auther" a dvd that builds a menu and create a dvd structure and take that to iso08:19
Kilosexplain building the dvd08:19
mazalk3b can't do that08:19
Kilosoh you want to make an iso of it08:20
mazalVideo dvd's must have the correct structure insode a Video_ts folder containing ifo and vob files and menu that is correct format and structure to play in a dvd player08:20
Kilosthere is something i saw about creating an iso in ubuntu08:20
mazalThat's where the thing comes in08:20
SquirmMaaz: coffee on08:21
* Maaz puts the kettle on08:21
mazalDVDstyler work so well for many years08:21
SquirmMaaz: larfe08:21
MaazSquirm: What?08:21
SquirmMaaz: large08:21
MaazIn a beer mug just for you Squirm08:21
SquirmMaaz: bigger08:21
MaazSquirm: Sorry...08:21
mazalNow broken in 13.0408:21
Kiloshi Squirm 08:21
mazalBombono as suggested on mail list currently works for me. Only gripe I have with it is that it has a very time consuming way of creating the menu08:22
Kiloswill just creating an iso of the folder work?08:22
mazalYou must do it manually08:22
mazalNo it won't Kilos 08:22
mazalA folder with a bunch of video files will only play on a pc08:22
Kilosoh ok then im lost, maybe someone else has ideas08:22
mazalFor now I will use Bombono and hope dvdstyler get's fixed in next Ubuntu08:23
mazalBombono just takes a lot of time with the menu , otherwise it is good08:23
* Squirm is busy updating his linux mint08:24
SquirmI think I skipped a release08:24
MaazCoffee's ready for Squirm!08:25
Kiloshi psyatw 08:25
psyatwhi Kilos08:25
mazalMaaz ek roep jou08:25
Maazmazal: Huh?08:25
mazalMaaz kan jy al steak maak ?08:25
Maazmazal: *blink*08:25
psyatwhi Squirm08:25
mazalHi psyatw 08:27
mazalMaaz don't blink at me feed me08:27
Maazmazal: Sorry...08:27
psyatwhi mazal08:28
magespawnblast from the past, just had one of these dropped at my shop http://content.bikhir.ma/images/85/8590061209.jpg08:37
Kiloswhat is it08:37
KilosHP something or other08:38
magespawnphotocopier, only08:38
magespawnMinolta cs pro ep 203008:38
magespawnstill switches on, but looks and smells like rats have nesting in it08:40
Kilosive got a win xp pc coming for repairs08:40
mazalRun Kilos run08:41
Kiloscant see mouse and all icons missing of desktop08:41
Kiloscant family of family08:41
mazalWe get that icons thing a lot08:41
Kilossuspect virus or malware08:41
mazalMostly happens when user click on the desktop cleanup popup and don't read properly08:41
mazalBut ya , probably virus , it's MS08:42
Kiloshow do you fix it?08:42
mazalDeleted items from desktop there is only one way , one by one manually08:42
magespawnsystem restore08:43
Kilosapparently there arent any08:43
mazalWe created a bat file now in all our pc's startup that copies al main shortcuts to the desktop every time the user logs on08:43
Kiloswhat a waste of data getting antivirus and stuff for 1 pc08:44
mazalIs such a pain the virus thing08:44
magespawnare there no system restore points Kilos?08:44
Kilosi dunno magespawn will look tonight when it comes then we can discuss it on my channel08:45
Kiloswell get reprimanded here08:45
magespawngood idea batman08:45
Kiloslook at this when you got time, i put it on 708:47
Kilosdoes a range of things and dont slow pc08:47
mazalSeems promising08:49
Guest56135what's my nick?08:50
Kiloshi Guest56135 08:50
mazalBut I don't see an option for manual definition update download08:51
KilosGuest56135, what did you do08:52
=== Guest56135 is now known as ThatGraemeGuy
Kilosthats better08:52
ThatGraemeGuyno idea08:52
Kiloshi ThatGraemeGuy 08:52
mazalThat's the program itself Kilos 08:53
* ThatGraemeGuy waves08:53
mazalI'm refering to def files for when you want to update a pc manually that don't have internet08:53
Kilosmight be an option once installed08:54
Kilosbut without net i have no idea08:54
mazalFor example I dl the manual definitions file for our av once a week. Then I have it with me in the field and update stand-alone pc's08:54
mazalAnd when I format I update with that file first08:55
Kilosit checks for updates all the time08:55
mazalThen even the pc's that have internet have a small incremental update after that08:55
mazalSaves plenty of data08:55
mazalIs like apt cache for av lol08:56
Kilosmaybe one can install it to a stick08:56
mazalSo is always the first thing when looking at av I look if their site have manual update files or if it only works with updating straight from the net08:56
Kilosyou gotta experiment i got no place in nut to remember win stuff08:56
mazalWe have entered an era where you simply can't run pc's without inet anymore hey08:58
Kilosmazal, why not do your dvd stuff on 12.0409:03
Kilosand file a bug report of whats broken in 13 whatever it dont work with09:05
Kilosso the next release is fixed and maybe even you will get a work aroung for the release it dont work on09:05
Kiloswork around09:06
mazalI don't have a 12.04 at home Kilos 09:06
Kilosinstall one alongside man09:06
mazalI never do that09:06
mazalI have a very specific and partition layout and 2nd os will mess that up lol09:07
mazalAnd I never been a fan of the dual boot thing09:07
Kilosi run 12.04 kde unity and 10.10 on one pc with option where to boot from09:07
mazalBUT...if I can get another usb hdd I will install to that09:07
Kilosbut each on its own drive09:07
mazalI used to that some time ago , but it got to complicated to go change the bios order every time and remember what drive is what09:08
Kilosno man its simple09:08
Kilosyou get the choice in grub menu09:08
mazalBut is nice idea , will check if I can find a 2.5" external somewhere09:09
Kilosget the most important one to boot first then run sudo update-grub from it09:09
Kiloshi there drussell 09:10
mazalWith current internal that will be to big job. Will have re-partition the whole drive and one is 1.5tb with data on it :(09:11
mazalWill be easier to just install to a external and plug in when needed09:11
mazalBut...then again....my backups run every night including the big data partition. So don't have much to backup , just a lot to put back..hmmm09:16
mazalAg nee man oom Kilos , jy gee my idees nou en dis baie werk man :-)09:19
Kiloswerk is goed. hou jou uit die moeilikhead09:20
mazalEk het te veel werk alreeds09:20
mazalEn ek is soet seun , maakie moeilikheid nie hehehehe09:22
* drussell waves to Kilos 09:23
Kilosi might disappear, gonna plug in router09:28
KilosSuperhuman, it killed internet again so i purged iptables gufw and ufw now it dont kill 3g anymore09:39
Kilosnow just gotta set pc as gateway to the stars09:40
Kilosanytime, no rush at all09:41
magespawnKilos can you remember where you set the gateway last time?09:48
Kiloslast time i set it in nm with the same ip as my pc09:49
Kilosnm wired eth0 edit09:49
Kilosthen 1pv4\09:49
Kilosjust dunno what to put in there this time09:50
magespawnlet me check10:03
magespawnin nm did you set the ipv4 settings to manual?10:08
Kilosyes otherwise they dont give you options10:08
magespawnare you on automatic/dhcp at the moment?10:10
Kilosive tried that10:10
magespawnwhat is it set at right now?10:11
Kilosno manual10:11
Kilosand dns servers i put in
Kiloswould be easier if i could just get the router to see the arab modem 10:18
Kilosbut then dunno how ill iftop it10:19
Kilosim bang to fiddle in its settings10:20
magespawnwhat ip address do you get for ifconfig10:20
Kilosi used this command to set it10:21
Kilossudo ip addr add dev eth010:21
Kilosifconfig gives me10:21
Kilos inet addr:  Bcast:  Mask:
Superhumanyour router will be on
magespawnokay then the everything except the the gateway is set then Kilos?10:22
Kilosya i can get to it with browser10:22
Kilosi put my ip in gateway too now10:23
Kilosmaybe there is a command for setting gateway10:24
SquirmKilos: just remember, using `ip addr` to set your IP will only work until you restart10:24
Kilosnot sure if nm is so good10:24
Squirmyou want to set your default gateway on the command line?10:24
Kiloswill it remember it if its cli10:25
SuperhumanSetting route via command line: sudo route add default gw && netstat -rn10:25
Superhumannetstat -rn give you your routing table.10:25
Kilosnm didnt work with ip addy yesterday we had to use command line10:26
SquirmKilos: you can set it on cli and it will work. but it will only work until restart10:26
magespawnSuperhuman: could Kilos not set the gateway and such on the router?10:27
SquirmI'd think you'd have to10:27
Superhumanif he sets up dhcp on the router (or the pc), one of the settings is the default gateway to use. Which every dhcp host then gets.10:27
Superhumanthe router doesn't need to connect to the pc, it is basically acting as a normal router, it doesn't need internet connection (unless you update firmware)10:28
Superhumanwifi routers (not modems) are just normal routers with little more setup.10:29
magespawni was thinking for the rest of the network devices, if they try to use the router as the gateway automatically they would fail to get internet10:29
Superhumanyes, they would10:30
magespawnahh okay i understand, so the router will get the default gateway from the pc10:34
Kilosoh my10:37
Kilosone of those last commands killed 3g connection again even thought it still showed connected10:38
Kilosill try connect router again and see what happens10:39
KilosMaaz, hi10:39
* Maaz waves to Kilos10:39
SuperhumanKilos, the gateway doesn't need to be set on the pc, since it is the gateway. Only non-gateway devices need to be set.10:39
SuperhumanMaaz: beer10:40
MaazSuperhuman: Sorry...10:40
Superhumandamnit...who drinks all the beers?10:40
Kilostoo early for beer10:40
SuperhumanNever too early!10:40
KilosMaaz, beer10:41
Maazhmm... Kilos look in the fridge10:41
Kiloshe knows i dont drink10:41
Superhumanwhiskey tango foxtrot!10:41
* Kilos throws a beer to Superhuman 10:42
magespawnit is all in the punctuation, which most definately is important10:46
KilosMaaz, botsnack10:47
Maazthanks, Kilos10:47
SquirmMaaz: beer10:51
MaazSquirm look in the fridge my friend10:51
SquirmMaaz: botsnack10:51
MaazThank you thank you, munch munch chomp chomp10:51
Kilosmaybe i gotta use these commands like with server back then10:56
Kilosiptables -A INPUT -m state --state NEW ! -i ppp+ -j ACCEPT10:56
Kilosiptables -t nat -A POSTROUTING -o ppp+ -j MASQUERADE10:56
mazalgotta remaster10:57
mazall8tr all10:57
Kilosoh iptables is purged11:01
=== Spaceghost is now known as Guest12219
Kiloshi psyatw 11:17
Kiloseeek 799 peeps on #android11:50
Kilosnosy ThatGraemeGuy ?11:50
ThatGraemeGuy799 idlers11:51
Kilosi hope thats the right place to ask for help11:51
Kilosive just stated the prob there11:53
Kilosi have a problem trying to install android-x86 to my intel pc11:54
Kilos<Kilos> it gets to "detecting android-x86 and prints pages of ..........11:54
Kilosdoesnt even get to partitioning11:54
Kilosif it actually installed it could be good for older pcs because its only 186meg11:56
ThatGraemeGuyi don't think android apps translate very well to a kb/mouse interface11:57
ThatGraemeGuyi tried it in virtualbox, it's clunky11:57
Kilosi think its trying to detect an android device to install to which is wrong if its an iso for pcs11:58
ThatGraemeGuyand a large percentage of my apps in the play store were not installable for whatever reason11:58
ThatGraemeGuyits pretty much a toy project in its current state11:58
Kilosmaybe one needs to find the dev channel on irc11:59
ThatGraemeGuy#android-dev is for app development12:00
Kilos#android-root - for discussion related to off-label uses of hardware12:00
ThatGraemeGuyTo communicate with us real-time, join the irc channel #android-x86 at irc.freenode.net.12:01
ThatGraemeGuynow i'm no genius, but .....12:01
Kiloswell done12:01
Kilosmaybe they are all in the states12:04
Kilosthe stupid thing must look for a hdd not android12:06
magespawnwhat was that about a craftsman blaming their tools?12:09
ThatGraemeGuyhow can it look for android? it is android o_O12:10
Kilosyeah stupid hey12:35
Kilospointed at the wrong thing12:35
Kilosoh my even maaz split12:58
Kilosand most of the android peeps12:58
Kilosmust be a prob in the states12:58
Kilosyeah welcome back from me too13:31
=== Guest12219 is now known as Spaceghost
=== space is now known as Guest94778
inetpro_hmm... and what do we have here?14:25
inetpro_what is wrong with freenode today?14:25
=== inetpro_ is now known as inetpro
magespawnlater all home time14:32
Kilosk magespawn 14:32
Kilos-mquin- [Global Notice] As you've probably observed, we're experiencing a bit of network disruption. Please bear with us while we look into it.14:33
Kilos-tomaw- [Global notice] Quick services restart incoming...14:38
Kiloshi georgelappies 14:39
Kilosyo JoTraGo 14:39
georgelappieshi Kilos, how are you diong14:39
georgelappiesdoing oops14:40
Kilosgood ty and you14:40
georgelappiesgood thanks14:40
Kilosals bietjie siek vandag inetpro 14:40
inetproKilos: duidelik14:45
KilosThatGraemeGuy, looks like i will first have to install the plop thing15:01
Kilosplop boot-manager15:02
mazalOom Kilos , I found and external and wanted to put 12.04 on , but now my iso isn't working :-(15:42
mazalBurning an older iso now I still have in my backups15:43
mazalHope that works15:43
Kiloswhy not mazal 15:43
mazalJust show a grey screen15:43
mazalSo is obviously another graphics thing15:43
mazalUbuntu and it's graphics issues *sigh*15:43
mazalI hope my old iso works15:44
mazalNot gonna do a complete new one15:44
mazalWay too much time and data15:44
Kilosif it doesnt put the old card back15:44
mazalNo way , then my 13.04 is broken15:44
Kilosno man just till you have 12.04 installed with the correct drivers15:45
mazalNou praat oom van BAIE werk15:45
mazalNet om 1 program te laat werk15:45
mazalI don't think so15:45
Kilosek het n gigabyte pc wat so is15:46
Kilos7 werk op een kaart en ubuntu op n ander ene15:47
mazalThese screen guys need to sort out their stuff15:47
mazalAlways graphics issues15:47
Kilosyeah the all linuxes probs15:47
mazalIs the first time ever that a remaster iso fail on any pc I use15:48
mazalWeird part is , graphics drivers isn't included in the iso15:48
mazalSo it might be a 12.04 thing with this new Nvidia card of mine15:49
mazalLast time I used 12.04 it was an ATI15:49
Kilosya once installed you type additional in dash and it will find the right driver15:49
mazalAnd how to install if you can't see anything lol15:50
mazalOk , older iso burned. Rebooting , wish me luck :P15:50
Kilosgood luck15:50
mazalNope , same thing15:54
mazalOh well , good bye 12.04 and dvdstyler15:54
Kilosjust change cards15:54
mazalNo that is way too much work just for one app15:54
mazalNot worth it15:54
mazalWat gaan ek nou met die external maak15:56
mazalHet hom spesiaal diep uit 'n boks uitgekrap :-(15:56
Kilosepos hom na my15:57
mazalAaaaah ek weet !16:03
mazalEk gaan my huidige Ubu op hom install as 'n "recovery os" om in myne se data in te kom in case of emergency16:04
=== mazal is now known as mazal_recovery
mazal_recoveryIt works nicely :-)16:43
mazal_recoveryOom Kilos , I have a question16:43
mazal_recoveryOk so now I am on my external drive ne16:44
mazal_recoveryDuring install I chose to install grub direct to it (sdb)16:44
Kilosyou are on it now16:44
mazal_recoveryThat's how I want it , I choose it first in BIOS when wanting to boot to it16:44
mazal_recoveryDon't want to mess with sda main drive16:45
Kilosso now do sudo update-grub16:45
mazal_recoveryNow , when I am on it like now16:45
mazal_recoveryCurrently it is sharp16:45
Kilosit should give you the boot options in grub menu16:45
mazal_recoveryBut what happens when there is an Kernel update , are the updater gonna install the new grub to sdb (the current drive I am on) or is it gonna install it to sda and mess with that ?16:46
mazal_recoveryWill the updater automatically see I am on sdb and update sdb's grub ?16:46
Kilosyou have to choose which drive to boot from then do update from that drive16:46
Kiloseach one does its own updates that way16:47
Kilosthey dont interfere with each other here16:48
mazal_recoveryAnd the updater will write the new grub to the drive you booted with ?16:48
mazal_recoveryAh good , don't want this drive to mess with the internal one16:48
Kilosit shouldnt imo16:49
mazal_recoveryEn ek was slim16:49
mazal_recoveryRemembered the apt cache trick so already copied sda's apt cache to this drive , so when it updates won't need to download anything :-)16:49
Kiloslol i do that by using rsync to somewhere16:50
mazal_recoveryMine too , every night16:50
Kilosyou can use your external for that16:51
mazal_recoveryCool , so mi recovery drive is ready16:51
Kilosto store packages and copy your /home16:51
mazal_recoveryI want to see Windoooze do this , install a full os with ALL apps in 15min16:51
Kiloswell done16:51
mazal_recoveryThank you remastersys16:51
mazal_recoveryOk , so now I have enough space on this drive left to play with K as well maybe16:52
mazal_recoveryWhen I have time16:52
mazal_recoveryThen don't have to mess with main drive16:52
Kilosthats why i use 3 drives16:52
mazal_recoveryAnd the rest free NTFS space16:53
Kiloseven though they all in the pc they are independant from each other16:53
mazal_recoverySo if I use ot for recovery that there is space to copy data too16:53
mazal_recoveryJust a pitty it is so small16:53
mazal_recovery250 overall16:54
mazal_recoveryUsed 50 for this os16:54
Kilos250 meg?16:54
mazal_recoveryVery small16:54
=== georgelappies_ is now known as georgelappies
mazal_recoveryGonna leave another 50 for "play" , like K or X and so on16:54
Kilosgig you are talking about16:55
mazal_recoveryThen I have 150 for data transfer in recovery situation16:55
mazal_recoveryYes , gig16:55
Kilosbut why the ntfs partition16:55
Kilosthats big man16:55
Kilos250 gig is large16:55
mazal_recoveryThat's small , I work with 2tb drives16:56
mazal_recoveryThis is an ooooooooooooold one16:56
Kiloshehe spoiled brat16:56
mazal_recoveryNTFS so that anything can access the data copied to it16:56
mazal_recoveryext4 too much permission issues in such situations16:56
Kilosi love ext4 win pcs cant even see it16:57
mazal_recoveryI had many a headache before when I needed to put back data that was on ext4 backup drives16:57
mazal_recoverySince then ALL my backup drives , except the clones are NTFS16:58
mazal_recoveryMy server backup I couldn't even access with gksudo nautilus16:58
mazal_recoveryon a ext4 drive16:58
mazal_recoveryI had to manually go and change the whole tree to different owner16:59
mazal_recoveryAnd then change it back again after putting the data back16:59
mazal_recoverySince then , only clones ext4 , the rest all NTFS. Then I can get to my data on any system16:59
mazal_recoveryYeah the permissions is a nightmare when you plug that drive into another system17:00
mazal_recoveryOk , this drive is nicely partitioned now. I saw that "disk" did not ask me if I want the 2nd partition to be a primary partition ?17:02
mazal_recoveryDoes it make it a primary automatically ?17:02
=== Spaceghost is now known as Guest85024
Kiloslook at chown17:03
Kilosbut use with cars17:03
mazal_recoveryHey hey , what is this !!! I see "create image" and "restore image" option when I go to "more option" on a partition in the disks app17:04
Kilosyou might need to tell bios which drive to boot from first17:04
mazal_recoveryThis needs some investigation :-)17:04
=== Guest85024 is now known as Spaceghost
mazal_recoveryI wonder if this makes an exact image , including the boot sector ?17:08
Kiloswhere you found that17:08
mazal_recoveryThe application "disks"17:08
Kilosdisk utility17:09
mazal_recoveryIf you click on a drive that is not mounted17:09
mazal_recoveryAnd then on the gear icon17:09
mazal_recoveryIt opens a list of options17:09
mazal_recoveryOne of them is "create disk image"17:09
mazal_recoveryI wonder if there is more info about it on ubuntu site ?17:10
Kilostry man disk utility17:11
mazal_recoveryI can never remember that site's addy17:11
mazal_recoverywiki.ubuntu.com ?17:11
mazal_recoveryor was it help.ubuntu.com17:11
Kilosi dunno if man has pages for disk utility17:12
mazal_recoveryGonna def try find more info on that17:12
mazal_recoveryOk ,gonna boot back to main drive17:12
KilosMaaz, google disk utility man pages17:12
MaazKilos: "diskutil(8) Mac OS X Manual Page - Apple Developer" http://developer.apple.com/library/mac/#documentation/Darwin/Reference/ManPages/man8/diskutil.8 :: "Disk Utility - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disk_Utility :: "Palimpsest Disk Utility Manual - GNOME Library" https://help.gnome.org/users/palimpsest/ :: "Palimpsest Disk17:12
MaazUtility Manual" https://help.gnome.org/users/palimpsest/stable/ :: "diskutil OSX Man Page | …17:12
mazalCan't find anything on that17:34
mazalNice , jsut found out I can mount an iso in disk utility and view it in nautilus 17:40
Kilossorry i was busy with android18:17
Kilosnight all . sleep tight18:36
mazalNag oom , lekker slaap18:39
Kilosdankie seun jy ook18:40
inetpromazal: eish, you make me cringe!18:51
inetproyou really prefer NTFS?18:52
mazalFor drive that holds backup data yes18:57
inetproif it's windows backup data sure, but Linux backups?18:57
mazalYep is better18:57
mazalExcept for the clones18:58
inetproyou loose all Linux file attributes if you do that18:58
mazalYou don't want that on data18:58
mazalRemember I'm talking raw data like music , pics , videos etc.18:58
inetprohmm... you maybe, not me18:58
mazalOn the active machine or server of course you need it , but in the backup it is much quicker and easier to get to them if they not restricted by permissions19:00
inetproyou talk as if Linux file permissions are really so difficult to manage19:00
inetproit's simple, really19:00
inetproNTFS permissions can make you fail big time as well19:01
inetproall depends how you use it19:01
mazalIt's one step less if you need to restore , and it all depends on the situation as well19:02
* inetpro hates proprietary NTFS with a passion19:02
mazalFor example , lets say my docs is backed up on an ext4 drive19:03
mazalNow on my new install I changed my username19:03
inetprowhy would you do that?19:03
mazalI'm gonna have to changed ownership on all of them19:03
mazalIf they on a ntfs , I have full access and permission is changed automatically when copying in19:04
mazalI had another situation where the backup changed all permission from username to UUID. With that situation I couldn't even access the data with gksudo nautilus19:05
mazalI had to first change the ownership to username and then I could access it19:06
mazalIs just little unneccesary steps on a restore that wastes time19:06
inetprohmm... something sounds fishy here19:06
mazalNothing fishy , just making it easier for myself19:07
inetprohow can the backup change all permission from username to UUID? 19:08
mazalIt is a sync made with parted magic19:08
inetprodoesn't make sense to me19:09
mazalWasn't made from in ubuntu , and I was stunned also19:09
inetprowhat you say doesn't make sense19:09
mazalWhen I plugged that drive into an ubuntu box everything was uuid19:09
mazalI dunno , that's what happened19:09
inetproyou mean the words 'uuid'?19:10
mazalNo the owner for example brom barrydk to uuid 50019:11
mazalSo it was totally locked on the Ubuntu box I lugged it into19:11
inetproahh, but that is really simple19:11
mazalBut unnessesary19:12
mazalI fixed it with chown yes , but I don't need that extra step retrieving data out of a backup19:13
inetproit just means that the files belonged to UID 500 previously and your uid on the new system was probably something like 1000 19:14
mazalYeah I know19:14
mazalAnd like I said , fixed it with chown19:14
mazalMy point is , it is an unnecessary step19:15
mazalBacked up data don't need those ownerships and permissions19:15
mazalOnly system backups does19:15
inetproif you're really dealing with NTFS you would have the same issues moving stuff across systems with different usernames19:15
mazalNever had a problem19:16
mazalNTFS doesn't take the linux permissions19:16
inetproyou sure you really backing up to NTFS and not VFAT?19:16
mazalYep , NTFS19:16
inetprook, but then your username didn't really change19:17
inetproit was just the UID that changed19:17
mazalNo , the one the UUID changed was a backup to an ext4 drive19:17
mazalI used to backup to ext419:18
inetprofrom what OS?19:18
mazalUntill I got those permissions issues19:18
mazalUbuntu and parted magic19:18
inetproexplain what you mean with parted magic?19:19
mazalOh , and once it changed to root19:19
mazalAnd then after that backups failed for more than a week before I picked it up19:19
inetproyou mean the parted magic OS?19:19
mazalParted magic I use for full clones , that have to be done to ext4 as well19:19
mazalHave no choice there19:20
mazalBut the Ubuntu ones also used to run to ext4 , and changed that to NTFS19:20
mazalI had various issues with it , so just changed to ntfs19:21
inetprothat hurts man19:21
mazalThe one where it changed to root was my own mistake though19:21
mazalMy normal daily backups I run with plain rsync's. So I was in terminal , making a remaster iso , but that is done in root mode19:22
mazalSo forgot to exit root mode before running daily , bang everything changed to root19:23
mazalDidn't know realise it19:23
inetprosounds like you're doing something wrong, but then I don't know your needs19:23
mazalFollowing days backups fails because no permission to verwrite those files lol19:23
mazalNo , I am just making it easier on myself19:23
inetproI would really not jump between filesystems like that if I was you19:24
inetprocan mess things up big time19:24
mazalI basically just removed the need for chown in certain cases19:24
mazalWhy ?19:25
inetproyou can easily script chown into your procedure if it boils down to it19:25
inetprohow much data are you talking about here anyway?19:27
mazalAnother thing I got once , pc crashed badly enough for re-install. Only thing I had to burn iso with was a Win 7 laptop. So couldn't access my iso's in the backup.19:27
mazalSjoe , a lot , bout 1tb19:28
inetproothers users' data?19:28
mazalNope , my own19:28
mazalSoftware , videos , music etc19:28
inetproyou can always boot up with a live cd19:29
mazalI didn't have one19:29
mazalI had to burn one of my iso19:29
mazalAnd that NEVER happened again. After that always have latest burned iso on dvd and usb19:29
inetproget one and get rid of that proprietary stuffs19:30
mazalWhy ?19:30
mazalI only got unneccesary problems with my backups to ext419:30
inetprowhat else do you need windows for?19:31
mazalProblems I got wasn't with Windows , was with Ubuntu19:32
mazalOr you mean why is Windows on my laptop ?19:33
inetproyou still talk as if windows is this magic potion that everyone still needs 19:33
mazalI hate windows19:33
mazalI never talked windows up19:34
inetproso why you still depend on it's filesystem19:34
mazalAll I am saying the whole time is I don't need the permissions and ownerships in my backup data19:34
mazalAnd don't want it there as it made me struggle before19:35
inetprothe problem is with your backup procedure, not your permissions as such19:35
mazalNTFS just happens not to keep linux permissions , is why I use it19:35
mazalBackup procedure is fine19:36
mazalIs just a simple linux fact that user that transfers the data owns the data and can't be accessed on system without that same user19:36
mazalNothing wrong with that19:36
mazalAnd I'm not saying there is19:37
inetproroot owns everything19:37
mazalIt is just my preference to not have ownerships in my backed up data is all19:37
mazalAnd I know is easy fixable with things like chown , done it , knows how it works. Just don't want that extra step19:38
mazalAs well as preventing blonde mistakes like my root one also19:38
* inetpro prefers to keep file attributes in tact as far as possible19:38
mazalThe one thing I do that is with my clones. There I run rsync's to ext4 with full permissions settings in place. System files I don't muck about19:39
mazalBut I have yet to see or hear a good reason to do that with just raw data19:40
inetproA life spent making mistakes is not only more honorable, but more useful than a life spent doing nothing -- George Bernard Shaw 19:40
inetprowhat I'm trying to say is that you should learn from your mistakes and move on19:44
inetprostoring linux based backups on NTFS just for the sake of trimming file attributes is a mistake19:44
mazalWhy ?19:45
inetproit's unnecessary 19:45
mazalNo it isn't19:45
mazalMounts easier , copies back easier19:45
inetproonly because you know it19:45
mazalThat's another little niggle I had19:45
mazalext4 externals kept mounting as root19:46
inetproget to know your new OS19:46
mazalIt's not new to me19:46
inetprohow long have you been using it?19:46
inetprohmm.... 19:47
mazalNot ubuntu though19:47
mazalStarted with RH19:47
inetproand you still depend on NTFS?19:47
mazalNo , I make things easier for myself19:47
inetproyou really have to part with that MS tax?19:47
mazalIf there were any good reason to keep raw data backups on ext4 I would have , but there isn't19:49
mazalI'm gonna crash. Enjoy the rest of the evening.19:51
inetprobut hang on, what about performance?19:51
kbmonkeyhello o/21:28
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=== Guest4454 is now known as Spaceghost

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