[06:23] <Kilos> morning all
[06:24] <Kilos> oh my the fly is gone
[06:40] <Symmetria> ugh I think I just broke my SA box 
[06:40] <Kilos> ouch
[06:42] <Symmetria> I edited /etc/NetworkManager/system-connections/Wired\ connection \1
[06:42] <Symmetria> to add an ipv6 manual address
[06:42] <Symmetria> and the moment I hit save, didnt even restart anything
[06:42] <Symmetria> connectivity dies
[06:42] <Kilos> ouch
[06:42] <Symmetria> I presume that file is monitored or something by the system for changes?
[07:03] <Guest56135> morning peoples
[07:05] <superfly> ohi
[07:05] <Kilos> hi superfly magespawn 
[07:06] <Kilos> what happened superfly ? everything was offline
[07:06] <superfly> Kilos: I don't know. Ask Freenode
[07:06] <Kilos> oh them ya
[07:07] <magespawn> good morning Kilos superfly
[07:10] <superfly> hi magespawn
[07:10] <superfly> hi ThatGraemeGuy
[07:15] <magespawn> superfly i am back on the n900 the samsung was just giving me too many problems
[07:17] <Kilos> oh my
[07:17] <Kilos> router stops my 3g working
[07:18] <Kilos> new name for the the is ratter
[07:18] <Kilos> grrr
[07:22] <Kilos> thing
[07:30] <magespawn> Kilos did you not get them all talking nicely the other day?
[07:32] <Kilos> ya the tablet saw the router and i could drag/drop to tablet but have got it to share 3g yet now today it kills my 3g signal
[07:32] <Kilos> grr
[07:34] <magespawn> sounds like a setting has reset itself
[07:35] <Kilos> i can hold the reset button again and try
[07:40] <Kilos> here goes
[07:40] <magespawn> wait
[07:41] <magespawn> the reset button on the router will just set it back to factory settings
[07:43] <Kilos> grrr
[07:47] <Kilos> cold here today, they say 18°c max
[07:48] <Kilos> i like even nights to be 20°c
[07:52] <magespawn> cols all over it looks like, here is supposed to be 21
[07:52] <magespawn> s/cols/cold
[07:55] <Kilos> wb superfly 
[07:57] <superfly> seriously? *sigh*
[07:58] <Kilos> yea sorry
[08:05] <magespawn> happening a lot lately it seems
[08:05] <Kilos> our za internet sucks
[08:11] <superfly> no, this is Freenode
[08:11] <superfly> my IRC connection is based in the USA
[08:11] <Kilos> why they dropping you today?
[08:11] <superfly> and my other IRC networks have not gone down
[08:11] <superfly> just Freenode
[08:11] <Kilos> ah
[08:17] <mazal> Hi
[08:17] <Kilos> i have 2 different android live cds here but both stick at detecting android-X86 and fill screen with .........
[08:17] <Kilos> hi mazal 
[08:17] <mazal> Gaanit oom ?
[08:17] <Kilos> mazal why not convert everything to one format
[08:18] <Kilos> koud en self
[08:18] <mazal> Re the dvd's you talking about ?
[08:18] <Kilos> have a look at mobile media converter or mmediac i thinks it might be called now
[08:19] <Kilos> ya for the dvds
[08:19] <mazal> Converting is not the problem
[08:19] <mazal> It's building the dvd that is
[08:19] <Kilos> can you just burn them to dvd with k3b
[08:19] <mazal> I have many converters , but then you must "auther" a dvd that builds a menu and create a dvd structure and take that to iso
[08:19] <Kilos> explain building the dvd
[08:19] <mazal> k3b can't do that
[08:20] <Kilos> oh you want to make an iso of it
[08:20] <mazal> Video dvd's must have the correct structure insode a Video_ts folder containing ifo and vob files and menu that is correct format and structure to play in a dvd player
[08:20] <Kilos> there is something i saw about creating an iso in ubuntu
[08:20] <mazal> That's where the thing comes in
[08:21] <Squirm> Maaz: coffee on
[08:21]  * Maaz puts the kettle on
[08:21] <mazal> DVDstyler work so well for many years
[08:21] <Squirm> Maaz: larfe
[08:21] <Maaz> Squirm: What?
[08:21] <Squirm> Maaz: large
[08:21] <Maaz> In a beer mug just for you Squirm
[08:21] <Squirm> Maaz: bigger
[08:21] <Maaz> Squirm: Sorry...
[08:21] <mazal> Now broken in 13.04
[08:21] <Squirm> meh
[08:21] <Squirm> lo
[08:21] <Kilos> hi Squirm 
[08:22] <mazal> Bombono as suggested on mail list currently works for me. Only gripe I have with it is that it has a very time consuming way of creating the menu
[08:22] <Kilos> will just creating an iso of the folder work?
[08:22] <mazal> You must do it manually
[08:22] <mazal> No it won't Kilos 
[08:22] <mazal> A folder with a bunch of video files will only play on a pc
[08:22] <Kilos> oh ok then im lost, maybe someone else has ideas
[08:23] <mazal> For now I will use Bombono and hope dvdstyler get's fixed in next Ubuntu
[08:23] <mazal> Bombono just takes a lot of time with the menu , otherwise it is good
[08:24]  * Squirm is busy updating his linux mint
[08:24] <Squirm> I think I skipped a release
[08:25] <Maaz> Coffee's ready for Squirm!
[08:25] <Squirm> woop
[08:25] <Kilos> hi psyatw 
[08:25] <mazal> Maaz
[08:25] <psyatw> hi Kilos
[08:25] <mazal> Maaz ek roep jou
[08:25] <Maaz> mazal: Huh?
[08:25] <mazal> Maaz kan jy al steak maak ?
[08:25] <Maaz> mazal: *blink*
[08:25] <Kilos> hehe
[08:25] <psyatw> hi Squirm
[08:27] <mazal> Hi psyatw 
[08:27] <mazal> Maaz don't blink at me feed me
[08:27] <Maaz> mazal: Sorry...
[08:28] <psyatw> hi mazal
[08:37] <magespawn> blast from the past, just had one of these dropped at my shop http://content.bikhir.ma/images/85/8590061209.jpg
[08:37] <Kilos> what is it
[08:38] <Kilos> HP something or other
[08:38] <magespawn> photocopier, only
[08:38] <Kilos> ah
[08:38] <magespawn> Minolta cs pro ep 2030
[08:40] <magespawn> still switches on, but looks and smells like rats have nesting in it
[08:40] <Kilos> lol
[08:40] <Kilos> ive got a win xp pc coming for repairs
[08:41] <mazal> Run Kilos run
[08:41] <Kilos> cant see mouse and all icons missing of desktop
[08:41] <Kilos> hehe
[08:41] <Kilos> cant family of family
[08:41] <mazal> We get that icons thing a lot
[08:41] <Kilos> suspect virus or malware
[08:41] <mazal> Mostly happens when user click on the desktop cleanup popup and don't read properly
[08:42] <mazal> But ya , probably virus , it's MS
[08:42] <Kilos> how do you fix it?
[08:42] <mazal> Deleted items from desktop there is only one way , one by one manually
[08:43] <Kilos> lol
[08:43] <magespawn> system restore
[08:43] <Kilos> apparently there arent any
[08:43] <mazal> We created a bat file now in all our pc's startup that copies al main shortcuts to the desktop every time the user logs on
[08:44] <Kilos> what a waste of data getting antivirus and stuff for 1 pc
[08:44] <mazal> Is such a pain the virus thing
[08:44] <magespawn> are there no system restore points Kilos?
[08:45] <Kilos> i dunno magespawn will look tonight when it comes then we can discuss it on my channel
[08:45] <Kilos> well get reprimanded here
[08:45] <magespawn> good idea batman
[08:47] <Kilos> look at this when you got time, i put it on 7
[08:47] <Kilos> http://www.lavasoft.com/
[08:47] <Kilos> does a range of things and dont slow pc
[08:49] <mazal> Seems promising
[08:50] <Guest56135> um
[08:50] <Guest56135> what's my nick?
[08:50] <Kilos> hi Guest56135 
[08:51] <Guest56135> ah
[08:51] <Guest56135> weird
[08:51] <mazal> But I don't see an option for manual definition update download
[08:51] <Kilos> http://www.lavasoft.com/products/ad_aware_free.php
[08:51] <Guest56135> http://i.imgur.com/Ms0jqMI.png
[08:52] <Kilos> Guest56135, what did you do
[08:52] <Kilos> thats better
[08:52] <ThatGraemeGuy> no idea
[08:52] <Kilos> hi ThatGraemeGuy 
[08:53] <mazal> That's the program itself Kilos 
[08:53]  * ThatGraemeGuy waves
[08:53] <mazal> I'm refering to def files for when you want to update a pc manually that don't have internet
[08:54] <Kilos> might be an option once installed
[08:54] <Kilos> but without net i have no idea
[08:54] <mazal> For example I dl the manual definitions file for our av once a week. Then I have it with me in the field and update stand-alone pc's
[08:55] <Kilos> ah
[08:55] <mazal> And when I format I update with that file first
[08:55] <Kilos> it checks for updates all the time
[08:55] <mazal> Then even the pc's that have internet have a small incremental update after that
[08:55] <mazal> Saves plenty of data
[08:55] <Kilos> yeah
[08:56] <mazal> Is like apt cache for av lol
[08:56] <Kilos> maybe one can install it to a stick
[08:56] <mazal> So is always the first thing when looking at av I look if their site have manual update files or if it only works with updating straight from the net
[08:56] <Kilos> you gotta experiment i got no place in nut to remember win stuff
[08:58] <mazal> We have entered an era where you simply can't run pc's without inet anymore hey
[08:59] <Kilos> yeah
[09:03] <Kilos> mazal, why not do your dvd stuff on 12.04
[09:05] <Kilos> and file a bug report of whats broken in 13 whatever it dont work with
[09:05] <Kilos> so the next release is fixed and maybe even you will get a work aroung for the release it dont work on
[09:06] <Kilos> work around
[09:06] <mazal> I don't have a 12.04 at home Kilos 
[09:06] <Kilos> install one alongside man
[09:06] <mazal> I never do that
[09:07] <mazal> I have a very specific and partition layout and 2nd os will mess that up lol
[09:07] <mazal> And I never been a fan of the dual boot thing
[09:07] <Kilos> i run 12.04 kde unity and 10.10 on one pc with option where to boot from
[09:07] <mazal> BUT...if I can get another usb hdd I will install to that
[09:07] <Kilos> but each on its own drive
[09:08] <mazal> I used to that some time ago , but it got to complicated to go change the bios order every time and remember what drive is what
[09:08] <Kilos> no man its simple
[09:08] <Kilos> you get the choice in grub menu
[09:09] <mazal> But is nice idea , will check if I can find a 2.5" external somewhere
[09:09] <Kilos> get the most important one to boot first then run sudo update-grub from it
[09:10] <Kilos> hi there drussell 
[09:11] <mazal> With current internal that will be to big job. Will have re-partition the whole drive and one is 1.5tb with data on it :(
[09:11] <mazal> Will be easier to just install to a external and plug in when needed
[09:16] <mazal> But...then again....my backups run every night including the big data partition. So don't have much to backup , just a lot to put back..hmmm
[09:18] <Kilos> hmm...
[09:19] <mazal> Ag nee man oom Kilos , jy gee my idees nou en dis baie werk man :-)
[09:19] <Kilos> haha
[09:20] <Kilos> werk is goed. hou jou uit die moeilikhead
[09:20] <mazal> Ek het te veel werk alreeds
[09:22] <mazal> En ek is soet seun , maakie moeilikheid nie hehehehe
[09:22] <Kilos> hehe
[09:23]  * drussell waves to Kilos 
[09:28] <Kilos> i might disappear, gonna plug in router
[09:30] <Kilos> yay
[09:39] <Kilos> Superhuman, it killed internet again so i purged iptables gufw and ufw now it dont kill 3g anymore
[09:40] <Kilos> now just gotta set pc as gateway to the stars
[09:41] <Kilos> anytime, no rush at all
[09:48] <magespawn> Kilos can you remember where you set the gateway last time?
[09:49] <Kilos> last time i set it in nm with the same ip as my pc
[09:49] <Kilos> nm wired eth0 edit
[09:49] <Kilos> then 1pv4\
[09:49] <Kilos> ipv4
[09:50] <Kilos> just dunno what to put in there this time
[10:03] <magespawn> let me check
[10:08] <magespawn> in nm did you set the ipv4 settings to manual?
[10:08] <Kilos> yes otherwise they dont give you options
[10:10] <magespawn> are you on automatic/dhcp at the moment?
[10:10] <Kilos> ive tried that
[10:11] <magespawn> what is it set at right now?
[10:11] <Kilos> no manual
[10:12] <Kilos> and dns servers i put in 8.8.8.8
[10:18] <Kilos> would be easier if i could just get the router to see the arab modem 
[10:19] <Kilos> but then dunno how ill iftop it
[10:20] <Kilos> im bang to fiddle in its settings
[10:20] <magespawn> what ip address do you get for ifconfig
[10:21] <Kilos> i used this command to set it
[10:21] <Kilos> sudo ip addr add 192.168.1.1/24 dev eth0
[10:21] <Kilos> ifconfig gives me
[10:22] <Kilos>  inet addr:192.168.1.1  Bcast:192.168.1.255  Mask:255.255.255.0
[10:22] <Superhuman> your router will be on 192.168.1.254
[10:22] <magespawn> okay then the everything except the the gateway is set then Kilos?
[10:22] <Kilos> ya i can get to it with browser
[10:23] <Kilos> i put my ip in gateway too now
[10:24] <Kilos> maybe there is a command for setting gateway
[10:24] <Squirm> Kilos: just remember, using `ip addr` to set your IP will only work until you restart
[10:24] <Kilos> not sure if nm is so good
[10:24] <Squirm> you want to set your default gateway on the command line?
[10:25] <Kilos> will it remember it if its cli
[10:25] <Squirm> no
[10:25] <Superhuman> Setting route via command line: sudo route add default gw 192.168.1.1 && netstat -rn
[10:25] <Superhuman> netstat -rn give you your routing table.
[10:26] <Kilos> nm didnt work with ip addy yesterday we had to use command line
[10:26] <Squirm> Kilos: you can set it on cli and it will work. but it will only work until restart
[10:27] <magespawn> Superhuman: could Kilos not set the gateway and such on the router?
[10:27] <Squirm> I'd think you'd have to
[10:27] <Superhuman> if he sets up dhcp on the router (or the pc), one of the settings is the default gateway to use. Which every dhcp host then gets.
[10:28] <Squirm> ok
[10:28] <Superhuman> the router doesn't need to connect to the pc, it is basically acting as a normal router, it doesn't need internet connection (unless you update firmware)
[10:29] <Superhuman> wifi routers (not modems) are just normal routers with little more setup.
[10:29] <magespawn> i was thinking for the rest of the network devices, if they try to use the router as the gateway automatically they would fail to get internet
[10:30] <Superhuman> yes, they would
[10:34] <magespawn> ahh okay i understand, so the router will get the default gateway from the pc
[10:37] <Kilos> oh my
[10:38] <Kilos> one of those last commands killed 3g connection again even thought it still showed connected
[10:39] <Kilos> ill try connect router again and see what happens
[10:39] <Kilos> Maaz, hi
[10:39]  * Maaz waves to Kilos
[10:39] <Superhuman> Kilos, the gateway doesn't need to be set on the pc, since it is the gateway. Only non-gateway devices need to be set.
[10:39] <Kilos> yay
[10:40] <Superhuman> Maaz: beer
[10:40] <Maaz> Superhuman: Sorry...
[10:40] <Superhuman> damnit...who drinks all the beers?
[10:40] <Kilos> too early for beer
[10:40] <Superhuman> Never too early!
[10:41] <Kilos> Maaz, beer
[10:41] <Maaz> hmm... Kilos look in the fridge
[10:41] <Kilos> he knows i dont drink
[10:41] <Superhuman> whiskey tango foxtrot!
[10:42] <Superhuman> discrimination!!
[10:42] <Kilos> hehe
[10:42]  * Kilos throws a beer to Superhuman 
[10:46] <magespawn> it is all in the punctuation, which most definately is important
[10:46] <magespawn> lo
[10:47] <Kilos> Maaz, botsnack
[10:47] <Maaz> thanks, Kilos
[10:51] <Squirm> Maaz: beer
[10:51] <Maaz> Squirm look in the fridge my friend
[10:51] <Squirm> Maaz: botsnack
[10:51] <Maaz> Thank you thank you, munch munch chomp chomp
[10:56] <Kilos> maybe i gotta use these commands like with server back then
[10:56] <Kilos> iptables -A INPUT -m state --state NEW ! -i ppp+ -j ACCEPT
[10:56] <Kilos> iptables -t nat -A POSTROUTING -o ppp+ -j MASQUERADE
[10:57] <mazal> gotta remaster
[10:57] <mazal> l8tr all
[11:01] <Kilos> oh iptables is purged
[11:17] <Kilos> hi psyatw 
[11:50] <Kilos> eeek 799 peeps on #android
[11:50] <Kilos> nosy ThatGraemeGuy ?
[11:51] <Kilos> hehe
[11:51] <ThatGraemeGuy> yeah
[11:51] <ThatGraemeGuy> 799 idlers
[11:51] <Kilos> i hope thats the right place to ask for help
[11:52] <ThatGraemeGuy> with?
[11:53] <Kilos> ive just stated the prob there
[11:54] <Kilos> i have a problem trying to install android-x86 to my intel pc
 it gets to "detecting android-x86 and prints pages of ..........
[11:54] <Kilos> doesnt even get to partitioning
[11:54] <ThatGraemeGuy> ah
[11:56] <Kilos> if it actually installed it could be good for older pcs because its only 186meg
[11:57] <ThatGraemeGuy> i don't think android apps translate very well to a kb/mouse interface
[11:57] <ThatGraemeGuy> i tried it in virtualbox, it's clunky
[11:58] <Kilos> i think its trying to detect an android device to install to which is wrong if its an iso for pcs
[11:58] <ThatGraemeGuy> and a large percentage of my apps in the play store were not installable for whatever reason
[11:58] <Kilos> eish
[11:58] <ThatGraemeGuy> its pretty much a toy project in its current state
[11:59] <Kilos> maybe one needs to find the dev channel on irc
[12:00] <ThatGraemeGuy> #android-dev is for app development
[12:00] <Kilos> #android-root - for discussion related to off-label uses of hardware
[12:00] <Kilos> ?
[12:01] <ThatGraemeGuy> To communicate with us real-time, join the irc channel #android-x86 at irc.freenode.net.
[12:01] <ThatGraemeGuy> now i'm no genius, but .....
[12:01] <ThatGraemeGuy> ;-)
[12:01] <Kilos> well done
[12:04] <Kilos> maybe they are all in the states
[12:05] <magespawn> hah
[12:06] <Kilos> the stupid thing must look for a hdd not android
[12:09] <magespawn> what was that about a craftsman blaming their tools?
[12:10] <ThatGraemeGuy> how can it look for android? it is android o_O
[12:35] <Kilos> yeah stupid hey
[12:35] <Kilos> pointed at the wrong thing
[12:58] <Kilos> oh my even maaz split
[12:58] <Kilos> and most of the android peeps
[12:58] <Kilos> must be a prob in the states
[13:30] <Kilos> whew
[13:31] <Kilos> yeah welcome back from me too
[14:25] <inetpro_> hmm... and what do we have here?
[14:25] <inetpro_> what is wrong with freenode today?
[14:32] <magespawn> later all home time
[14:32] <Kilos> k magespawn 
[14:33] <Kilos> -mquin- [Global Notice] As you've probably observed, we're experiencing a bit of network disruption. Please bear with us while we look into it.
[14:38] <Kilos> -tomaw- [Global notice] Quick services restart incoming...
[14:39] <Kilos> hi georgelappies 
[14:39] <Kilos> yo JoTraGo 
[14:39] <inetpro> ai!
[14:39] <georgelappies> hi Kilos, how are you diong
[14:40] <georgelappies> doing oops
[14:40] <Kilos> good ty and you
[14:40] <georgelappies> good thanks
[14:40] <Kilos> als bietjie siek vandag inetpro 
[14:45] <inetpro> Kilos: duidelik
[15:01] <Kilos> ThatGraemeGuy, looks like i will first have to install the plop thing
[15:01] <Kilos> http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=86514&sid=b293ac1a004cc7772ec019b11a055b13
[15:02] <Kilos> plop boot-manager
[15:42] <mazal> Oom Kilos , I found and external and wanted to put 12.04 on , but now my iso isn't working :-(
[15:42] <Kilos> aw
[15:43] <mazal> Burning an older iso now I still have in my backups
[15:43] <mazal> Hope that works
[15:43] <Kilos> why not mazal 
[15:43] <mazal> Just show a grey screen
[15:43] <Kilos> eish
[15:43] <mazal> So is obviously another graphics thing
[15:43] <Kilos> yip
[15:43] <mazal> Ubuntu and it's graphics issues *sigh*
[15:44] <Kilos> hehe
[15:44] <mazal> I hope my old iso works
[15:44] <mazal> Not gonna do a complete new one
[15:44] <mazal> Way too much time and data
[15:44] <Kilos> if it doesnt put the old card back
[15:44] <mazal> No way , then my 13.04 is broken
[15:45] <Kilos> no man just till you have 12.04 installed with the correct drivers
[15:45] <mazal> Nou praat oom van BAIE werk
[15:45] <Kilos> haha
[15:45] <mazal> Net om 1 program te laat werk
[15:45] <mazal> I don't think so
[15:46] <Kilos> ek het n gigabyte pc wat so is
[15:47] <Kilos> 7 werk op een kaart en ubuntu op n ander ene
[15:47] <mazal> These screen guys need to sort out their stuff
[15:47] <mazal> Always graphics issues
[15:47] <Kilos> yeah the all linuxes probs
[15:48] <mazal> Is the first time ever that a remaster iso fail on any pc I use
[15:48] <mazal> Weird part is , graphics drivers isn't included in the iso
[15:49] <mazal> So it might be a 12.04 thing with this new Nvidia card of mine
[15:49] <mazal> Last time I used 12.04 it was an ATI
[15:49] <Kilos> ya once installed you type additional in dash and it will find the right driver
[15:50] <mazal> And how to install if you can't see anything lol
[15:50] <mazal> Ok , older iso burned. Rebooting , wish me luck :P
[15:50] <Kilos> good luck
[15:54] <mazal> Nope , same thing
[15:54] <Kilos> eish
[15:54] <mazal> Oh well , good bye 12.04 and dvdstyler
[15:54] <Kilos> just change cards
[15:54] <mazal> No that is way too much work just for one app
[15:54] <mazal> Not worth it
[15:54] <Kilos> lol
[15:56] <mazal> Wat gaan ek nou met die external maak
[15:56] <mazal> Het hom spesiaal diep uit 'n boks uitgekrap :-(
[15:57] <Kilos> hehe
[15:57] <Kilos> epos hom na my
[16:03] <mazal> Aaaaah ek weet !
[16:04] <mazal> Ek gaan my huidige Ubu op hom install as 'n "recovery os" om in myne se data in te kom in case of emergency
[16:43] <mazal_recovery> It works nicely :-)
[16:43] <mazal_recovery> Oom Kilos , I have a question
[16:43] <Kilos> lekker
[16:43] <Kilos> ya
[16:44] <mazal_recovery> Ok so now I am on my external drive ne
[16:44] <Kilos> ja
[16:44] <mazal_recovery> During install I chose to install grub direct to it (sdb)
[16:44] <Kilos> you are on it now
[16:44] <mazal_recovery> That's how I want it , I choose it first in BIOS when wanting to boot to it
[16:45] <mazal_recovery> Don't want to mess with sda main drive
[16:45] <Kilos> so now do sudo update-grub
[16:45] <mazal_recovery> Now , when I am on it like now
[16:45] <mazal_recovery> Currently it is sharp
[16:45] <Kilos> it should give you the boot options in grub menu
[16:46] <mazal_recovery> But what happens when there is an Kernel update , are the updater gonna install the new grub to sdb (the current drive I am on) or is it gonna install it to sda and mess with that ?
[16:46] <mazal_recovery> Will the updater automatically see I am on sdb and update sdb's grub ?
[16:46] <Kilos> you have to choose which drive to boot from then do update from that drive
[16:47] <Kilos> each one does its own updates that way
[16:48] <Kilos> they dont interfere with each other here
[16:48] <mazal_recovery> And the updater will write the new grub to the drive you booted with ?
[16:48] <Kilos> yip
[16:48] <mazal_recovery> Ah good , don't want this drive to mess with the internal one
[16:49] <Kilos> it shouldnt imo
[16:49] <mazal_recovery> En ek was slim
[16:49] <Kilos> hoekom
[16:49] <mazal_recovery> Remembered the apt cache trick so already copied sda's apt cache to this drive , so when it updates won't need to download anything :-)
[16:50] <Kilos> lol i do that by using rsync to somewhere
[16:50] <mazal_recovery> Mine too , every night
[16:51] <Kilos> you can use your external for that
[16:51] <mazal_recovery> Cool , so mi recovery drive is ready
[16:51] <Kilos> to store packages and copy your /home
[16:51] <mazal_recovery> I want to see Windoooze do this , install a full os with ALL apps in 15min
[16:51] <Kilos> well done
[16:51] <Kilos> lol
[16:51] <mazal_recovery> Thank you remastersys
[16:52] <mazal_recovery> Ok , so now I have enough space on this drive left to play with K as well maybe
[16:52] <mazal_recovery> When I have time
[16:52] <mazal_recovery> Then don't have to mess with main drive
[16:52] <Kilos> thats why i use 3 drives
[16:53] <mazal_recovery> And the rest free NTFS space
[16:53] <Kilos> even though they all in the pc they are independant from each other
[16:53] <mazal_recovery> So if I use ot for recovery that there is space to copy data too
[16:53] <mazal_recovery> Just a pitty it is so small
[16:53] <Kilos> size?
[16:54] <mazal_recovery> 250 overall
[16:54] <mazal_recovery> Used 50 for this os
[16:54] <Kilos> 250 meg?
[16:54] <mazal_recovery> gig
[16:54] <Kilos> gig
[16:54] <mazal_recovery> Very small
[16:54] <mazal_recovery> Gonna leave another 50 for "play" , like K or X and so on
[16:55] <Kilos> gig you are talking about
[16:55] <mazal_recovery> Then I have 150 for data transfer in recovery situation
[16:55] <mazal_recovery> Yes , gig
[16:55] <Kilos> but why the ntfs partition
[16:55] <Kilos> thats big man
[16:55] <Kilos> 250 gig is large
[16:56] <mazal_recovery> That's small , I work with 2tb drives
[16:56] <mazal_recovery> This is an ooooooooooooold one
[16:56] <Kilos> hehe spoiled brat
[16:56] <mazal_recovery> NTFS so that anything can access the data copied to it
[16:56] <Kilos> aha
[16:56] <mazal_recovery> ext4 too much permission issues in such situations
[16:57] <Kilos> i love ext4 win pcs cant even see it
[16:57] <mazal_recovery> I had many a headache before when I needed to put back data that was on ext4 backup drives
[16:58] <mazal_recovery> Since then ALL my backup drives , except the clones are NTFS
[16:58] <Kilos> eina
[16:58] <mazal_recovery> My server backup I couldn't even access with gksudo nautilus
[16:58] <mazal_recovery> on a ext4 drive
[16:59] <mazal_recovery> I had to manually go and change the whole tree to different owner
[16:59] <mazal_recovery> And then change it back again after putting the data back
[16:59] <Kilos> permisions?
[16:59] <mazal_recovery> Since then , only clones ext4 , the rest all NTFS. Then I can get to my data on any system
[17:00] <mazal_recovery> Yeah the permissions is a nightmare when you plug that drive into another system
[17:02] <mazal_recovery> Ok , this drive is nicely partitioned now. I saw that "disk" did not ask me if I want the 2nd partition to be a primary partition ?
[17:02] <mazal_recovery> Does it make it a primary automatically ?
[17:03] <Kilos> look at chown
[17:03] <Kilos> but use with cars
[17:03] <Kilos> care
[17:04] <mazal_recovery> Hey hey , what is this !!! I see "create image" and "restore image" option when I go to "more option" on a partition in the disks app
[17:04] <Kilos> you might need to tell bios which drive to boot from first
[17:04] <mazal_recovery> This needs some investigation :-)
[17:08] <mazal_recovery> I wonder if this makes an exact image , including the boot sector ?
[17:08] <Kilos> where you found that
[17:08] <mazal_recovery> The application "disks"
[17:09] <Kilos> disk utility
[17:09] <mazal_recovery> If you click on a drive that is not mounted
[17:09] <mazal_recovery> Yeah
[17:09] <mazal_recovery> And then on the gear icon
[17:09] <Kilos> ah
[17:09] <mazal_recovery> It opens a list of options
[17:09] <mazal_recovery> One of them is "create disk image"
[17:10] <mazal_recovery> I wonder if there is more info about it on ubuntu site ?
[17:11] <Kilos> try man disk utility
[17:11] <mazal_recovery> I can never remember that site's addy
[17:11] <mazal_recovery> wiki.ubuntu.com ?
[17:11] <Kilos> ?
[17:11] <mazal_recovery> or was it help.ubuntu.com
[17:12] <Kilos> i dunno if man has pages for disk utility
[17:12] <mazal_recovery> Gonna def try find more info on that
[17:12] <mazal_recovery> Ok ,gonna boot back to main drive
[17:12] <Kilos> Maaz, google disk utility man pages
[17:12] <Maaz> Kilos: "diskutil(8) Mac OS X Manual Page - Apple Developer" http://developer.apple.com/library/mac/#documentation/Darwin/Reference/ManPages/man8/diskutil.8 :: "Disk Utility - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disk_Utility :: "Palimpsest Disk Utility Manual - GNOME Library" https://help.gnome.org/users/palimpsest/ :: "Palimpsest Disk
[17:12] <Maaz> Utility Manual" https://help.gnome.org/users/palimpsest/stable/ :: "diskutil OSX Man Page | …
[17:34] <mazal> Can't find anything on that
[17:40] <mazal> Nice , jsut found out I can mount an iso in disk utility and view it in nautilus 
[18:17] <Kilos> sorry i was busy with android
[18:36] <Kilos> night all . sleep tight
[18:39] <mazal> Nag oom , lekker slaap
[18:40] <Kilos> dankie seun jy ook
[18:51] <inetpro> mazal: eish, you make me cringe!
[18:52] <inetpro> you really prefer NTFS?
[18:57] <mazal> For drive that holds backup data yes
[18:57] <inetpro> if it's windows backup data sure, but Linux backups?
[18:57] <mazal> Yep is better
[18:57] <inetpro> ai!
[18:58] <mazal> Except for the clones
[18:58] <inetpro> you loose all Linux file attributes if you do that
[18:58] <mazal> You don't want that on data
[18:58] <mazal> Remember I'm talking raw data like music , pics , videos etc.
[18:58] <inetpro> hmm... you maybe, not me
[19:00] <mazal> On the active machine or server of course you need it , but in the backup it is much quicker and easier to get to them if they not restricted by permissions
[19:00] <inetpro> you talk as if Linux file permissions are really so difficult to manage
[19:00] <inetpro> it's simple, really
[19:01] <inetpro> NTFS permissions can make you fail big time as well
[19:01] <inetpro> all depends how you use it
[19:02] <mazal> It's one step less if you need to restore , and it all depends on the situation as well
[19:02]  * inetpro hates proprietary NTFS with a passion
[19:03] <mazal> For example , lets say my docs is backed up on an ext4 drive
[19:03] <mazal> Now on my new install I changed my username
[19:03] <inetpro> why would you do that?
[19:03] <mazal> I'm gonna have to changed ownership on all of them
[19:04] <mazal> If they on a ntfs , I have full access and permission is changed automatically when copying in
[19:05] <mazal> I had another situation where the backup changed all permission from username to UUID. With that situation I couldn't even access the data with gksudo nautilus
[19:06] <mazal> I had to first change the ownership to username and then I could access it
[19:06] <mazal> Is just little unneccesary steps on a restore that wastes time
[19:06] <inetpro> hmm... something sounds fishy here
[19:07] <mazal> Nothing fishy , just making it easier for myself
[19:08] <inetpro> how can the backup change all permission from username to UUID? 
[19:08] <mazal> It is a sync made with parted magic
[19:09] <inetpro> doesn't make sense to me
[19:09] <mazal> Wasn't made from in ubuntu , and I was stunned also
[19:09] <inetpro> what you say doesn't make sense
[19:09] <mazal> When I plugged that drive into an ubuntu box everything was uuid
[19:09] <mazal> I dunno , that's what happened
[19:10] <inetpro> you mean the words 'uuid'?
[19:10] <inetpro> s/words/word/
[19:11] <mazal> No the owner for example brom barrydk to uuid 500
[19:11] <mazal> So it was totally locked on the Ubuntu box I lugged it into
[19:11] <inetpro> ahh, but that is really simple
[19:12] <mazal> But unnessesary
[19:13] <mazal> I fixed it with chown yes , but I don't need that extra step retrieving data out of a backup
[19:14] <inetpro> it just means that the files belonged to UID 500 previously and your uid on the new system was probably something like 1000 
[19:14] <mazal> Yeah I know
[19:14] <mazal> And like I said , fixed it with chown
[19:15] <mazal> My point is , it is an unnecessary step
[19:15] <mazal> Backed up data don't need those ownerships and permissions
[19:15] <mazal> Only system backups does
[19:15] <inetpro> if you're really dealing with NTFS you would have the same issues moving stuff across systems with different usernames
[19:16] <mazal> Never had a problem
[19:16] <mazal> NTFS doesn't take the linux permissions
[19:16] <inetpro> you sure you really backing up to NTFS and not VFAT?
[19:16] <mazal> Yep , NTFS
[19:17] <inetpro> ok, but then your username didn't really change
[19:17] <inetpro> it was just the UID that changed
[19:17] <mazal> No , the one the UUID changed was a backup to an ext4 drive
[19:18] <mazal> I used to backup to ext4
[19:18] <inetpro> from what OS?
[19:18] <mazal> Untill I got those permissions issues
[19:18] <mazal> Ubuntu and parted magic
[19:19] <inetpro> explain what you mean with parted magic?
[19:19] <mazal> Oh , and once it changed to root
[19:19] <mazal> And then after that backups failed for more than a week before I picked it up
[19:19] <inetpro> you mean the parted magic OS?
[19:19] <mazal> Parted magic I use for full clones , that have to be done to ext4 as well
[19:20] <mazal> Have no choice there
[19:20] <mazal> But the Ubuntu ones also used to run to ext4 , and changed that to NTFS
[19:20] <inetpro> ai!
[19:21] <mazal> I had various issues with it , so just changed to ntfs
[19:21] <inetpro> that hurts man
[19:21] <mazal> The one where it changed to root was my own mistake though
[19:22] <mazal> My normal daily backups I run with plain rsync's. So I was in terminal , making a remaster iso , but that is done in root mode
[19:23] <mazal> So forgot to exit root mode before running daily , bang everything changed to root
[19:23] <mazal> Didn't know realise it
[19:23] <inetpro> sounds like you're doing something wrong, but then I don't know your needs
[19:23] <mazal> Following days backups fails because no permission to verwrite those files lol
[19:23] <mazal> No , I am just making it easier on myself
[19:24] <inetpro> I would really not jump between filesystems like that if I was you
[19:24] <inetpro> can mess things up big time
[19:24] <mazal> I basically just removed the need for chown in certain cases
[19:25] <mazal> Why ?
[19:25] <inetpro> you can easily script chown into your procedure if it boils down to it
[19:27] <inetpro> how much data are you talking about here anyway?
[19:27] <mazal> Another thing I got once , pc crashed badly enough for re-install. Only thing I had to burn iso with was a Win 7 laptop. So couldn't access my iso's in the backup.
[19:28] <mazal> Sjoe , a lot , bout 1tb
[19:28] <inetpro> others users' data?
[19:28] <mazal> Nope , my own
[19:28] <mazal> Software , videos , music etc
[19:29] <inetpro> you can always boot up with a live cd
[19:29] <mazal> I didn't have one
[19:29] <mazal> I had to burn one of my iso
[19:29] <mazal> And that NEVER happened again. After that always have latest burned iso on dvd and usb
[19:30] <inetpro> get one and get rid of that proprietary stuffs
[19:30] <mazal> Why ?
[19:30] <mazal> I only got unneccesary problems with my backups to ext4
[19:31] <inetpro> what else do you need windows for?
[19:32] <mazal> Problems I got wasn't with Windows , was with Ubuntu
[19:33] <mazal> Or you mean why is Windows on my laptop ?
[19:33] <inetpro> exactly
[19:33] <inetpro> you still talk as if windows is this magic potion that everyone still needs 
[19:33] <mazal> Nooooooooooooooooooo
[19:33] <mazal> I hate windows
[19:34] <mazal> I never talked windows up
[19:34] <inetpro> so why you still depend on it's filesystem
[19:34] <mazal> All I am saying the whole time is I don't need the permissions and ownerships in my backup data
[19:35] <mazal> And don't want it there as it made me struggle before
[19:35] <inetpro> the problem is with your backup procedure, not your permissions as such
[19:35] <mazal> NTFS just happens not to keep linux permissions , is why I use it
[19:36] <mazal> Backup procedure is fine
[19:36] <mazal> Is just a simple linux fact that user that transfers the data owns the data and can't be accessed on system without that same user
[19:36] <mazal> Nothing wrong with that
[19:37] <mazal> And I'm not saying there is
[19:37] <inetpro> root owns everything
[19:37] <mazal> It is just my preference to not have ownerships in my backed up data is all
[19:38] <mazal> And I know is easy fixable with things like chown , done it , knows how it works. Just don't want that extra step
[19:38] <mazal> As well as preventing blonde mistakes like my root one also
[19:38]  * inetpro prefers to keep file attributes in tact as far as possible
[19:39] <mazal> The one thing I do that is with my clones. There I run rsync's to ext4 with full permissions settings in place. System files I don't muck about
[19:40] <mazal> But I have yet to see or hear a good reason to do that with just raw data
[19:40] <inetpro> A life spent making mistakes is not only more honorable, but more useful than a life spent doing nothing -- George Bernard Shaw 
[19:43] <mazal> Exactly
[19:44] <inetpro> what I'm trying to say is that you should learn from your mistakes and move on
[19:44] <inetpro> storing linux based backups on NTFS just for the sake of trimming file attributes is a mistake
[19:45] <mazal> Why ?
[19:45] <inetpro> it's unnecessary 
[19:45] <mazal> No it isn't
[19:45] <mazal> Mounts easier , copies back easier
[19:45] <inetpro> only because you know it
[19:45] <mazal> That's another little niggle I had
[19:46] <mazal> ext4 externals kept mounting as root
[19:46] <inetpro> get to know your new OS
[19:46] <mazal> It's not new to me
[19:46] <inetpro> how long have you been using it?
[19:47] <mazal> 2002
[19:47] <inetpro> hmm.... 
[19:47] <mazal> Not ubuntu though
[19:47] <mazal> Started with RH
[19:47] <inetpro> and you still depend on NTFS?
[19:47] <mazal> No , I make things easier for myself
[19:47] <inetpro> you really have to part with that MS tax?
[19:49] <mazal> If there were any good reason to keep raw data backups on ext4 I would have , but there isn't
[19:51] <mazal> I'm gonna crash. Enjoy the rest of the evening.
[19:51] <inetpro> but hang on, what about performance?
[19:51] <inetpro> ai!
[21:28] <kbmonkey> hello o/