| === Trix[a]r_za is now known as Trixar_za | ||
| === Trixar_za is now known as Trix[a]r_za | ||
| === Trix[a]r_za is now known as Trixar_za | ||
| === Trixar_za is now known as Trix[a]r_za | ||
| Kilos | hi mazal and others | 06:45 |
|---|---|---|
| mazal | More oom Kilos | 06:50 |
| mazal | Do you guys know if Kubuntu shares the same support and release cycle as main Ubuntu , or can point me in the right direction with a link. IE , is Kubuntu also only supported for 9 months now ? | 07:01 |
| Kilos | kubuntu uses all the ubuntu stuff and more from same repos | 07:02 |
| mazal | So also 9 months support only ? | 07:02 |
| Kilos | i spose so thats why im staying 12.04 for now | 07:03 |
| Kilos | hi Vince-0 | 07:03 |
| mazal | Found this on their wiki: | 07:08 |
| mazal | Raring Ringtail | 07:08 |
| mazal | 07:08 | |
| mazal | 13.04 | 07:08 |
| mazal | 07:08 | |
| mazal | April 25, 2013 | 07:08 |
| mazal | 07:08 | |
| mazal | Supported until January 2014 | 07:08 |
| mazal | To be Released | 07:08 |
| mazal | 07:08 | |
| mazal | Version | 07:08 |
| mazal | 07:08 | |
| mazal | Release Schedule | 07:08 |
| mazal | 07:09 | |
| mazal | Support Date | 07:09 |
| mazal | Saucy Salamander | 07:09 |
| mazal | 07:09 | |
| mazal | 13.10 | 07:09 |
| mazal | 07:09 | |
| mazal | October 17, 2013 | 07:09 |
| mazal | 07:09 | |
| mazal | Supported until July 2014 | 07:09 |
| mazal | Oh sorry sorry guys , didn't know it will paste it that badly. | 07:09 |
| mazal | So yes , that confirms it , 6 months | 07:09 |
| mazal | Ag , 9months even | 07:09 |
| Kilos | thats fine if you want to keep growing with each release | 07:10 |
| Kilos | with no data cap theres no prob | 07:10 |
| magespawn | good morning all | 07:10 |
| Kilos | hi magespawn | 07:10 |
| Kilos | all has left, its just us 3 now | 07:11 |
| magespawn | still sitting at around 40 lurjers though | 07:11 |
| magespawn | lurkers | 07:11 |
| mazal | Morning magespawn | 07:12 |
| magespawn | hi mazal | 07:12 |
| mazal | Kilos, this October I'm gonna do online upgrade for the first time ever. I always do fresh install. But want to give that a go and see | 07:13 |
| Kilos | on a server mazal ? | 07:13 |
| mazal | No , my desktop pc at home | 07:13 |
| mazal | Server is LTS , I don't muck about with my server | 07:14 |
| Kilos | the fly always does it that way | 07:14 |
| magespawn | from what i can make out most of the drastic changes are in the gui environment anyway | 07:15 |
| mazal | I'm nervous what will happen with all my configs and currently installed apps and current sources list. But gonna try it and see | 07:15 |
| mazal | I will probably have to manually edit and correct the sources list after upgrade | 07:15 |
| magespawn | backup backup backup | 07:15 |
| mazal | Many of them contain the release name mos | 07:15 |
| mazal | Or maybe the upgrade does that automatically | 07:16 |
| tonberryE352 | it usually disables all non standard sources entries before upgrade | 07:16 |
| mazal | magespawn, fortunately I have very severe and very paranoid backups :-) | 07:16 |
| mazal | tonberryE352, and after upgrade , one need to enable it manually ? | 07:16 |
| magespawn | nothing to worry about then | 07:16 |
| mazal | My stuff is on like 4 places backed up and in variuos ways as well lol | 07:17 |
| tonberryE352 | yes | 07:17 |
| mazal | And the gpg keys ? | 07:17 |
| tonberryE352 | i think they are kept | 07:17 |
| tonberryE352 | it just comments out the entries in sources.list | 07:18 |
| tonberryE352 | so you just update the release name and uncomment them | 07:18 |
| mazal | Ok that be easy then | 07:20 |
| mazal | Sjoe , because new install so much work and takes so much time that I want to try the upgrade route for all non-lts and then fresh install on lts when that comes | 07:21 |
| Vince-0 | haai | 07:26 |
| mazal | Lo Vince-0 | 07:28 |
| mazal | lol , I like the upgrade guide. Click on upgrade and if you get stuck ASKUbuntu lol | 07:37 |
| Kilos | hehe | 07:37 |
| mazal | I'm looking for an upgrade guide that I can read so long and see what is all the little things to keep in mind. I still have plenty of time to study it | 07:38 |
| Kilos | i did it once in update manager, only one tick needed | 07:38 |
| mazal | But Ubuntu's guide isn't mcuh help hehehe | 07:38 |
| Kilos | it shows the new release at the top | 07:39 |
| mazal | Yeah that bit I got , but I want to know detail of little things like the sources list for example. Little things like that one needs to check afterwards | 07:39 |
| mazal | And I would like a document so that I minimize bothering ppl with questions | 07:40 |
| Kilos | you can look in update manager as well for the sources list | 07:40 |
| Kilos | settings i think its called | 07:41 |
| Kilos | there you can enable/disabled certain sources or add sources | 07:41 |
| mazal | Everything I found so far ends at "follow on screen instructions". Is it really that simple ? | 07:46 |
| Kilos | yeah | 07:46 |
| Kilos | just takes a long time | 07:46 |
| mazal | What is on avarage the size of the download ? | 07:46 |
| Kilos | the fly uses a command to do it | 07:47 |
| mazal | I know every release will differ , but the average about ? | 07:47 |
| Kilos | 800meg i think | 07:47 |
| mazal | k | 07:47 |
| Kilos | from 700 to 800 | 07:47 |
| mazal | And for me on a fresh install take well over 1gig to add everything that needs to be added | 07:48 |
| mazal | So I will save a bit of data and all the time of installing and configuring everything | 07:48 |
| mazal | The time saving is what I'm looking for mainly | 07:49 |
| Kilos | hi confluency_ psyatw | 08:10 |
| mazal | Raak nou rof hier , nou net gehoor en gaan kyk , een van ons kantore is aan die brand gesteek laasnag | 08:10 |
| mazal | Gelukkig nie helemal vlam gevat nie. Parafien en brandende koerant papier ingegooi | 08:11 |
| Kilos | ai! | 08:11 |
| Kilos | verkeerde skelms toe gesluit | 08:12 |
| psyatw | hi Kilos | 08:15 |
| magespawn | hectic mazal | 08:16 |
| magespawn | hi psyatw | 08:16 |
| mazal | Looks like I will be taking backups home from now on | 08:18 |
| magespawn | any idea what the person was trying to do? | 08:18 |
| mazal | We don't know | 08:24 |
| Kilos | get warm | 08:24 |
| Kilos | hehe | 08:24 |
| mazal | It can be an attack against the whole building , or against that specific office | 08:24 |
| mazal | Maybe to destroy records being kept in that office | 08:24 |
| psyatw | hi magespawn | 08:26 |
| psyatw | hihoi mazal | 08:26 |
| mazal | Hi psyatw | 08:27 |
| inetpro | good morning | 08:27 |
| Kilos | lo inetpro | 08:28 |
| mazal | Morning inetpro | 08:28 |
| inetpro | oh and hi Kilos, mazal, psyatw, magespawn, Vince-0, tonberryE352 | 08:29 |
| Kilos | hehe | 08:29 |
| Kilos | twit | 08:29 |
| magespawn | hey inetpro | 08:30 |
| inetpro | all the earlybirds of the day | 08:30 |
| mazal | Is al laat man | 08:30 |
| inetpro | ja maar julle is vroeger as ek | 08:30 |
| mazal | hehehe | 08:30 |
| psyatw | hi inetpro | 08:31 |
| mazal | inetpro, I understand you do upgrades via the upgrade over internet route ? ( new release upgrades ) | 08:41 |
| inetpro | mazal: hmm... I have done them yes but for my desktops I generally prefer to stick to LTS versions and a relatively fresh install every few years | 08:42 |
| inetpro | I say relative because I keep some configs and obviously my own data | 08:43 |
| inetpro | but as far as I remember superfly does regular upgrading as the releases become available | 08:45 |
| superfly | my ears are burning | 08:46 |
| inetpro | mazal: in general Kubuntu does not have as many significant differences between versions as Ubuntu has at this stage | 08:46 |
| inetpro | hi superfly | 08:47 |
| superfly | hi inetpro | 08:47 |
| Kilos | morning superfly | 08:47 |
| superfly | morning Kilos | 08:47 |
| inetpro | superfly: what version you running on your desktop now? | 08:48 |
| superfly | still 13.04 | 08:48 |
| magespawn | hey superfly | 08:48 |
| mazal | Is there anything else after upgrade apart from my sources list that I need to correct after an upgrade , inetpro ? | 08:48 |
| superfly | yo magespawn | 08:48 |
| Kilos | hi theblazehen | 08:48 |
| superfly | mazal: if you're doing it right, you don't change anything, you let the upgrade do it all for you | 08:48 |
| inetpro | mazal: ^^ | 08:48 |
| mazal | Sjoe it sounds so easy | 08:48 |
| mazal | It's struggling to compute :-) | 08:49 |
| superfly | it is, it's one step: do-release-upgrade | 08:49 |
| superfly | or do-release-upgrade -d if you want to catch the beta | 08:49 |
| inetpro | the days of changing your sources by hand are over | 08:49 |
| mazal | k | 08:49 |
| mazal | I'm going that route October for the first time | 08:50 |
| mazal | Wanted to start studying manuals so long | 08:51 |
| inetpro | mazal: just do it | 08:52 |
| Kilos | hehe | 08:52 |
| inetpro | do it in a VM if you're not sure | 08:53 |
| mazal | I'm not a VM guy | 08:53 |
| mazal | I either do a thing or don't do a thing hehehehe | 08:53 |
| mazal | Would you suggest that apt-get command over the gui way ? Is apt-get's way better way to go ? | 08:53 |
| Kilos | inetpro, you got your twitter working yet? | 08:54 |
| inetpro | Kilos: eish Kilos, not really | 08:54 |
| Kilos | ai! | 08:54 |
| inetpro | actually enjoying a bit time away from twitter | 08:54 |
| superfly | mazal: what apt-get command? | 08:55 |
| Kilos | you gotta post about mondays meeting man | 08:55 |
| mazal | do-release-upgrade , I assume that is with apt-get or am I wrong ? | 08:55 |
| inetpro | Kilos: ai! | 08:55 |
| superfly | no | 08:55 |
| superfly | it's a command | 08:55 |
| superfly | @~:$ do-release-upgrade | 08:56 |
| mazal | Ah ok, is that preferable over the gui way in update manager ? | 08:56 |
| mazal | And if yes , just with sudo , or in root mode with sudo su first ? | 08:56 |
| Kilos | the fly always uses the best way mazal | 08:57 |
| superfly | mazal: it'll launch a little GUI if you're running X | 08:57 |
| superfly | otherwise it just does a CLI version | 08:57 |
| superfly | and no need to use sudo, it'll ask for sudo when it needs it | 08:57 |
| mazal | Ok thanx guys | 08:57 |
| === confluency_ is now known as confluency | ||
| superfly | and I use Kubuntu, so I don't know much of how the Ubuntu update manager works | 08:58 |
| mazal | Looks like I don't need any studying for this | 08:58 |
| superfly | but I also tend to upgrade when the beta comes out so the upgrade manager doesn't know about it yet | 08:58 |
| mazal | Just my lots of paranoid backups | 08:58 |
| inetpro | for a Kubuntu upgrade from 12.10 to 13.04 see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RaringUpgrades/Kubuntu | 08:59 |
| mazal | Mine will be for ubuntu , but thanx for that one. I am going to start playing with kubunu as well when the time is available | 09:02 |
| mazal | But won't upgrade the K one for now. Must still play and learn it | 09:02 |
| superfly | the command is the same for both | 09:02 |
| mazal | K | 09:04 |
| mazal | It all sounds so easy I can't wait for October now to try it lol | 09:05 |
| Kilos | hehe | 09:07 |
| magespawn | http://www.webdesignerdepot.com/2013/07/20-resources-for-learning-web-design-development/ some learning resources for those with an interest | 09:13 |
| magespawn | and some more https://www.learnsmartsystems.com some of these are free | 09:14 |
| Kilos | magespawn, where you find free hosts for websites | 09:17 |
| Kilos | the free ones are all tiny | 09:17 |
| magespawn | most of them are yes, or with restrictions about what you can do | 09:18 |
| magespawn | there has been one advertised on facebook lately, let me see if I can find a link | 09:19 |
| Kilos | can one use a local server to host it? | 09:19 |
| magespawn | local server? | 09:19 |
| magespawn | one is south africa? | 09:20 |
| Kilos | like your own server pc | 09:20 |
| magespawn | you can but it is really not recommended | 09:20 |
| magespawn | most servers on the net have insane connection and bandwidth compared to a home machine | 09:21 |
| Kilos | i was just thinking then one can learn the designing part without any restrictions | 09:21 |
| Kilos | and format it when gavvol | 09:21 |
| Kilos | and not use lotsa data of course | 09:22 |
| magespawn | you can install LAMP with ubuntu server for your own use, access it on your own network | 09:22 |
| magespawn | then you can learn the how to set up a website with practice | 09:23 |
| Kilos | ok ty | 09:23 |
| Kilos | i gotta get iptables energy going again first | 09:24 |
| magespawn | cool, of course i cannot find that advert now | 09:30 |
| Kilos | hehe | 09:30 |
| Kilos | yay i can ping each other. yesterday they didnt wanna | 09:31 |
| magespawn | nice Kilos | 09:33 |
| Kilos | lol i did nothing they njeeded to sleep first looks like | 09:34 |
| Kilos | needed | 09:34 |
| magespawn | adsl line is taking strain today, lots of updates on various machines, kids playing flash games, and a steam update | 09:34 |
| Kilos | ai! | 09:35 |
| Kilos | is there any fibre in hluhluwe yet | 09:35 |
| Kilos | and mainly is there any to hluhluwe | 09:39 |
| magespawn | strangely enough there actually is, it does not seem to make much difference, it is the main line only not the last mile to business/house | 09:39 |
| Kilos | it will cost laying fibre to where you are | 09:40 |
| Kilos | maybe one can buy the fibre cable somewhere else and lay it yourself and just get one of them okes to do the connecting part for you | 09:41 |
| Kilos | one of the guys that subcontract to eskom that is | 09:41 |
| Kilos | offer him lotsa pineapples | 09:42 |
| magespawn | would need the output of one of the local farms, I am sure | 09:42 |
| Kilos | huh? | 09:42 |
| Kilos | i dont understand that | 09:42 |
| Kilos | oh you mean in pines haha | 09:43 |
| Kilos | the tools for doing fibre cable work are expensive | 09:44 |
| Kilos | hi nocware | 09:57 |
| nocware | hey kilos.. | 09:59 |
| Kilos | hmm... im missing something in my saved iptables file | 09:59 |
| Kilos | can ping 8.8.8.8 from second pc but cant update | 09:59 |
| Kilos | oh my net splits again | 10:08 |
| Kilos | superfly, just a pointer please. i can ping 8.8.8.8 from second machine but cant browse from there. had the same thing last year and you fixed it | 10:16 |
| Kilos | maybe i forgot to save your instauctions | 10:16 |
| Kilos | or lost them' | 10:16 |
| Kilos | instructions | 10:17 |
| Kilos | i think it was something simple as well | 10:20 |
| superfly | Kilos: DNS is not set up correctly | 10:36 |
| Kilos | i have 8.8.8.8 in it will look more ty | 10:37 |
| === Spaceghost is now known as Guest87357 | ||
| charl | wb Kilos | 12:01 |
| Kilos | ty charl | 12:01 |
| inetpro | Kilos: your /etc/resolv.conf must have the following entry (for more info see: man resolv.conf) | 12:10 |
| inetpro | nameserver 8.8.8.8 | 12:10 |
| Kilos | ty inetpro ive done something stupid, cant even ping 8.8.8.8 from there anymore and eth disconnects and reconnects every minute | 12:12 |
| Kilos | grrr | 12:12 |
| Kilos | wbb | 12:17 |
| === space is now known as Guest85240 | ||
| mazal | Maaz seen hecticza | 12:18 |
| Maaz | mazal: hecticza was last seen 17 days, 1 hour, 54 minutes and 8 seconds ago in #ubuntu-za on freenode [2013-06-23 03:24:30 PDT], and has been offline on freenode since 2013-06-23 03:24:38 PDT | 12:18 |
| === Guest85240 is now known as Spaceghost | ||
| Kilos | Squirm, can you give me that method of adding nameserver in resolv.conf remember it has a default and whatever one adds in there gets overwritten | 12:33 |
| Kilos | i will remember to save the info this time | 12:33 |
| Kilos | inetpro, ai! | 12:35 |
| Kilos | you and man | 12:35 |
| inetpro | Kilos: man is the solution to all your problems | 12:36 |
| Kilos | not mine man | 12:36 |
| Kilos | grrr | 12:36 |
| inetpro | all very nicely documented in a lot of detail | 12:36 |
| Kilos | you know that | 12:36 |
| inetpro | start reading from the top and from left to right, it's not difficult | 12:38 |
| * Kilos throws bricks at inetpro | 12:38 | |
| inetpro | :-) | 12:38 |
| Kilos | but i remember squirm had the workaround to it overwriting itself everytime | 12:40 |
| mazal | Have a good evening everyone | 12:40 |
| mazal | Bye | 12:40 |
| Kilos | cheers mazal | 12:40 |
| Kilos | ai! | 12:40 |
| Squirm | Kilos: add it to /etc/resolvconf/resolv.conf.d/head | 12:45 |
| Kilos | ty | 12:45 |
| Kilos | inetpro, see^^ | 12:49 |
| Kilos | wbb gonna try a reboot | 12:49 |
| inetpro | Squirm: ahh, that is a nice one that I have seen | 12:50 |
| inetpro | and it's even documented in a man page as well (man resolvconf) | 12:52 |
| inetpro | Kilos: man resolvconf | 12:54 |
| Kilos | inetpro, where in man does it tell you to add it to /etc/resolvconf/resolv.conf.d/head | 12:54 |
| Kilos | ai! | 12:54 |
| inetpro | :-) | 12:54 |
| * Kilos goes to man resolvconf | 12:54 | |
| Kilos | resolvconf --enable-updates? | 12:56 |
| inetpro | Kilos: read further down in the file | 13:00 |
| inetpro | I mean in the man page | 13:00 |
| Kilos | ai! | 13:00 |
| inetpro | Kilos: normally you should not be editing these files on a desktop, that is why you have a network manager | 13:04 |
| inetpro | and in fact, now that you have a router/switch you should go back to using the nm | 13:04 |
| inetpro | unless you can tell us another reason why you should edit the file by hand | 13:05 |
| === Kilos- is now known as Kilos | ||
| Kilos | ai! | 14:26 |
| Kilos | oh my even chanserv is killed | 14:43 |
| Kilos | sup magespawn ? | 14:43 |
| magespawn | not much Kilos | 14:46 |
| Kilos | you busy playing games or watching movies | 14:47 |
| inetpro | Kilos: at least your conversation is still logged by ubuntulog_ | 14:53 |
| Kilos | hahaha | 14:54 |
| Kilos | shup you | 14:54 |
| Kilos | i dont need logs then everyone can see me sukkel | 14:54 |
| Kilos | who is this net_ekke that pops in and out daily | 15:03 |
| Kilos | ChanServ, wb | 15:04 |
| === Tonberry is now known as Guest46014 | ||
| Kilos | oh my even spanne bessies became a guest | 15:07 |
| magespawn | Kilos: waiting for a windows backup to complete | 15:15 |
| magespawn | and some printing for a customer | 15:15 |
| Kilos | ah | 15:15 |
| magespawn | watching the security + lectures on learnsmart | 15:43 |
| Kilos | security is big business today | 15:44 |
| Kilos | hi Mezenir | 15:48 |
| Kilos | sup Vince-0 - Vince-0 has quit (Read error: No buffer space available) | 16:06 |
| Vince-0 | lools | 16:06 |
| Kilos | did you put that in there | 16:06 |
| Kilos | hehe | 16:06 |
| Kilos | you bye message | 16:07 |
| Vince-0 | I don't believe so | 16:07 |
| Vince-0 | might be on my laptop | 16:07 |
| magespawn | hey Vince-0 | 16:08 |
| magespawn | brb restart | 16:08 |
| magespawn | right back | 16:16 |
| Kilos | wb | 16:16 |
| magespawn | looks like netsplit has it in for chanserv | 16:17 |
| Kilos | yip | 16:17 |
| magespawn | i have to have the worlds slowest printer | 16:19 |
| Kilos | lol | 16:19 |
| magespawn | printing out 18 A4 photo quality full colour prints, i think it takes about 3-5min per page | 16:20 |
| Kilos | whew | 16:20 |
| magespawn | going to be here all night | 16:22 |
| Kilos | ai! | 16:22 |
| magespawn | also that windows restore is still going on | 16:22 |
| Kilos | xp? | 16:22 |
| Kilos | sometimes that takes ages | 16:22 |
| magespawn | no 7 | 16:24 |
| magespawn | so we will do something productive with out time then | 16:27 |
| magespawn | http://xkcd.com/662/ | 16:27 |
| Kilos | whats that | 16:28 |
| magespawn | good thought http://xkcd.com/659/ | 16:29 |
| Kilos | you call that propuctive hehe | 16:30 |
| Kilos | someone should find them attackers and hang them | 16:31 |
| Kilos | ten years jail without parole | 16:32 |
| Kilos | no fines | 16:32 |
| Kilos | and no pcs or cell phones allowed | 16:33 |
| magespawn | what attackers are that Kilos? | 16:33 |
| magespawn | s/that/those | 16:34 |
| Kilos | -christel- [Global Notice] As you may have noticed we appear to have trotted over the grumpy troll's bridge -- the network is currently being attacked and as a result we're temporarily without services as we work to get a working copy of the db fired up elsewhere. Apologies for the inconvenience. | 16:34 |
| Kilos | <Kilos> someone should find them attackers and hang t | 16:34 |
| magespawn | http://xkcd.com/644/ | 16:34 |
| magespawn | bored little script kiddies | 16:34 |
| magespawn | http://xkcd.com/627/ Kilos | 16:41 |
| Kilos | hahaha | 16:42 |
| Kilos | ssounds like me | 16:42 |
| magespawn | Kilos: i think most of the time the people either do not know what they are doing or they are simple bored | 16:58 |
| Kilos | which people magespawn | 16:59 |
| magespawn | the ones attacking freenode | 17:02 |
| kbmonkey | yeah whats that about, got the notice | 17:06 |
| magespawn | i am off home later all\ | 17:07 |
| Kilos | yo kbmonkey | 17:08 |
| Kilos | k magespawn | 17:08 |
| kbmonkey | that was a long-ass day | 17:09 |
| kbmonkey | its is just astounding how I can spend almost every waking hour staring at a screen. | 17:10 |
| Kilos | lol | 17:10 |
| Kilos | sigh | 17:54 |
| === Guest46014 is now known as Tonberry_ | ||
| Kilos | well most of us are still here | 18:01 |
| kbmonkey | yeah | 18:03 |
| kbmonkey | zzzz barely | 18:03 |
| Kilos | hehehe | 18:07 |
| Kilos | go sleep man | 18:08 |
| kbmonkey | nah, then I'd wake up and it would be work again! that is not a pleasant thought so no thanks ;) | 18:10 |
| kbmonkey | can sleep when I'm dead | 18:10 |
| Kilos | hahaha | 18:10 |
| kbmonkey | kekeke | 18:10 |
| Kilos | have a cuppa coffee | 18:11 |
| kbmonkey | I've been knocking the tea. coffee is finished. will have to get some | 18:20 |
| bmg505 | nickserver dead? | 18:22 |
| Kilos | yeah and chanserv | 18:22 |
| Kilos | ddos attacks again or something bmg505 | 18:23 |
| Kilos | they are moving at the moment | 18:23 |
| kbmonkey | no announcements on their page yet, got a notice about 2 hours ago soemone is rampaging against freenode | 18:27 |
| Kilos | there were 2 just now kbmonkey | 18:27 |
| Kilos | -mist- [Global Notice] Sorry for the continued lack of services, we're currently moving it to an alternate location. Thanks for your patience. | 18:27 |
| Kilos | first one was 2 hours ago | 18:28 |
| Kilos | but all day we been net splitting | 18:28 |
| Kilos | night all. sleep tight | 18:32 |
| kbmonkey | gn Kilos | 18:32 |
| smile4ever | Goodbye :) | 18:38 |
| === Spaceghost is now known as Guest58025 | ||
| === Guest58025 is now known as Spaceghost | ||
| === space is now known as Guest25617 | ||
| === Trix[a]r_za is now known as Trixar_za | ||
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