[10:30] <BluesKaj> Hiyas all
[10:43] <FernandoMiguel> hey BluesKaj
[10:43] <BluesKaj> hi FernandoMiguel
[11:37] <minimec> Hi. The graphical environment of my 13.10 installation is broken for two days now "lightdm fails to start". Can you confirm similar experience and is there a workaround? I am running this on a lenovo x230 (i5 ivy).
[14:03] <finicky> my radeon doesnt work with 3.10 HDMI audio
[14:04] <finicky> why the heck after 3 years those radeon stuff doesn't work like it should, why so many regressions
[14:05] <finicky> instead peoples get involved in new features… that makes me mad
[14:05] <finicky> radeon.audio=1 in grub causes a kernel lookup
[14:31] <BluesKaj> finicky, hdmi output gets the audio from the soundcard output thru the graphics chip
[14:34] <BluesKaj> so both audio and graphics drivers need to be the latest in 13.10. I found that out with setup altho mine is m-audio and nvidia graphics
[14:34] <BluesKaj> my setup that is
[14:44] <finicky> hmm
[14:44] <finicky> i am talking about HDMI RADEON
[14:44] <finicky> ot about those nvidia stuff
[14:44] <finicky> i don't use tainted kernels here
[14:44] <finicky> the OS kernel of radeon doesn't work anymore with hdmi on 3.10
[14:45] <finicky> and i don't have a sound card on that particular system
[14:45] <BluesKaj> not suggesting anything like that , just maje sure you have the latest kernel drivers installed
[14:45] <finicky> lol
[14:45] <BluesKaj> 3.10 what ?
[14:45] <holstein> finicky: works under 3.04?
[14:46] <finicky> kernel 3.10 is the latest
[14:46] <BluesKaj> ok
[14:46] <finicky> not 3.1
[14:46] <holstein> finicky: works under 13.04? *
[14:46] <finicky> very confusing version risotto by linux kernel devs
[14:46] <finicky> no
[14:47] <finicky> it works with an old 3.8 kernel
[14:47] <BluesKaj> well perhaps you should check if the kernel module /driver is loaded
[14:47] <finicky> it doesn't need a kernel module
[14:47] <finicky> its in the kernel
[14:47] <finicky> its not proprietary
[14:48] <finicky> i don't install proprietary drivers on that machine, because it sucks
[14:48] <BluesKaj> ok nm , I didn't mean that either , but have fun , i have stuff to do ...BBL
[14:48] <holstein> the newer kernel might not support your device as well, finicky
[14:49] <finicky> no
[14:49] <finicky> i said the kernel crashes
[14:49] <holstein> finicky: but, its fine in 13.04?
[14:49] <finicky> kernel oops with radeon.audio=1
[14:50] <finicky> yeah but i can't use those 13.04
[14:51] <finicky> i think those kernel coders don't even test their crap
[14:52] <finicky> it was working with 3.7
[14:52] <holstein> finicky: sometimes some thing break support for other things, and that support cant be added back without breaking other things
[14:53] <holstein> finicky: you are always welcome to compile your own kernels..
[14:53] <finicky> yeah thats why people need to test the functionality before adding new features
[14:53] <holstein> finicky: if you want to be constructive, you can file a bug, and follow it closely.. and offer to help
[14:53] <finicky> i don't understand this at all
[14:54] <finicky> i think this bug is filled
[14:54] <holstein> finicky: think about it this way.. its just *your* specific hardware, friend
[14:54] <finicky> lol
[14:54] <finicky> radeon isn't specific its everyday hw
[14:54] <holstein> finicky: if the bug is filed, follow up with it..
[14:54] <finicky> the chip is out now for two years
[14:55] <holstein> finicky: your secific hardware case is just that.. a specific hardware case.. most folks dont have or use or need HDMI audio
[14:55] <finicky> are you kidding me?
[14:57] <finicky> hdmi audio is very simple, ever had a monitor with speakers?
[14:57] <finicky> or you ever plugged a laptop to a TV?
[14:57] <finicky> so don't say its specific hardware case
[14:57] <finicky> thats arrogant
[14:57] <holstein> finicky: ?
[14:57] <holstein> finicky: i only have one machine to test HDMI audio with, and its nvidia
[14:58] <finicky> hdmi audio on i915 works like a  charm
[14:58] <holstein> finicky: why not find the bug and offer to help test with your specific hardware?
[14:59] <finicky> ah i found it
[14:59] <finicky> i offer my help, but i don't want to wait for years
[15:00] <finicky> im sure its a regression
[15:00] <holstein> finicky: ?
[15:00] <holstein> finicky: the support has not been guaranted to you by ati/amd, correct?
[15:01] <holstein> guranteed*
[15:01] <finicky> i don't care about amd, its open source, lot of peoples reverse enginnered the stuff
[15:02] <finicky> they have to start regression tests
[15:02] <holstein> finicky: sure, but they are not able to offer you certain guaranteed support... and havent
[15:02] <holstein> finicky: the agreement you made when you purchased that hardware was that you would use it with windows.. anything else is up to you and a community who does what they can to support it
[15:03] <finicky> i just think the quality could be better with better communication and management
[15:04] <finicky> a developer of a driver has to test his shit first with some testers, then add it to the mainline
[15:04] <holstein> finicky: the quality could be perfect with suppport from the vendor
[15:04] <finicky> not the other way
[15:04]  * genii throws a rock somewhere in the general direction of Markham hoping to hit ATI's old offices 
[15:05] <holstein> finicky: you are not likely going to get that, so you got to take what you get, and try and be cooperative with volunteers
[15:05] <finicky> the other way is test it on users, and then fix it, and this is very frustrting and mire frustrating if its a regression
[15:05] <holstein> finicky: mire?
[15:05] <finicky> more
[15:06] <finicky> you see just a typo could break up the communication
[15:06] <holstein> finicky: thats why i asked for clarification.. is that acceptable?
[15:06] <finicky> no, but human
[15:07] <holstein> finicky: so, its not acceptable for me to ask for clarification? but it is human?
[15:08] <holstein> finicky: i would join a kernel channel, and try and follow up with that bug, and try and keep in mind that you are dealing with a lot of volunteers, and try and adjust your attitude accordingly.. keep in mind you are not dealing with AMD, but with a community that you are a welcome part of
[15:09] <finicky> and you want to release saucy salami with such bugs...
[15:09] <finicky> or sausage salami
[15:11] <holstein> !13.10
[15:11] <holstein> finicky: is that what you are referring to? its not released for few months.. and i assure you, support for you specific hardware will not delay its release
[15:12] <finicky> maybe someone produces a  fork of the linux kernel, focusing on stabilty and usability for humans… thats the best way to solve this trilemma
[15:13] <holstein> finicky: you are welcome to
[15:15] <finicky> http://www.mail-archive.com/ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com/msg4116810.html
[15:16] <holstein> !info vgaswitcheroo
[15:24] <finicky> later i have to cock
[15:26] <holstein> its interesting the angles different folks see as "the definitive fix".. i would have said, if ATI/Nvidia provided proper support for linux, that would fix everything
[15:27] <holstein> seems to me, forking the kernel would require the same level of hacking at things to get things to work with code that is locked up, or hardware you are really not invited to support
[16:03] <BluesKaj> holstein, the problem lies with amd/ati drivers lately , they aren't very linux friendly anymore
[16:03] <holstein> BluesKaj: im still hopeful that steam will give us an advantage, or help more than it harms, at least
[16:04] <BluesKaj> steam ?
[16:04] <holstein> !steam
[16:04] <FernandoMiguel> I always think of it as Stream :O
[16:04] <BluesKaj> yes but why them , they're  a gaming outfit
[16:04] <holstein> the gaming thing.. i think its "good" to have a company who is interested in having driver support be correct in linux
[16:04] <FernandoMiguel> BluesKaj: games = more users
[16:05] <holstein> BluesKaj: AFAIK, they are working with nvidia and ati directly on issues relating to driver support in linux
[16:07] <BluesKaj> I recall ati having great support with their fglrx drivers 4-5 yrs ago , but I haven't had any experience with ati since then ...switched to nvidia graphics and m-audio
[17:17] <chjunior> Hey, why do I see one app in apps.ubuntu.com but I don see it in software center? this one specifically => https://apps.ubuntu.com/cat/applications/intellij-idea-ce/
[17:19] <holstein> chjunior: https://apps.ubuntu.com/cat/applications/raring/intellij-idea-ce/
[17:19] <chjunior> holstein, yeah, but if I search it in software center, it doesn't show up
[17:20] <holstein> chjunior: in 13.04?
[17:20] <chjunior> 13.10
[17:20] <holstein> chjunior: 13.10 is not out yet
[17:20] <holstein> !info intellij-idea-ce
[17:20] <chjunior> Iḿ beta testing
[17:21] <holstein> that link says raring support is available.. doesnt say anything about 13.10 yet
[17:21] <chjunior> gotcha, alright. Sorry about that
[17:24] <genii> !info intellij-idea-ce saucy
[17:25] <trism> it wouldn't show up in !info anyway, since apps get added from password protected ppas
[17:26] <genii> Ah
[18:26] <finicky> http://download.digital-devices.de/download/duoflex_ct_v2/Techn.Drawing-DVBCT-DuoFlex-V2.pdf
[18:26] <finicky> this thing should fit in a akasa euler
[18:26] <finicky> i heard height is 60mm
[18:27] <finicky> so inner height is at least 53mm with all that holy stuff
[18:27] <bazhang> whats the connection to ubuntu support finicky
[18:27] <finicky> oh wrong channel lol
[18:27] <bazhang> yes
[18:27] <finicky> i'm not 24/7 on irc like you mr bazhang
[18:28] <bazhang> finicky, you know the channel rules very clearly