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BluesKajHiyas all10:30
FernandoMiguelhey BluesKaj10:43
BluesKajhi FernandoMiguel10:43
minimecHi. The graphical environment of my 13.10 installation is broken for two days now "lightdm fails to start". Can you confirm similar experience and is there a workaround? I am running this on a lenovo x230 (i5 ivy).11:37
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finickymy radeon doesnt work with 3.10 HDMI audio14:03
finickywhy the heck after 3 years those radeon stuff doesn't work like it should, why so many regressions14:04
finickyinstead peoples get involved in new features… that makes me mad14:05
finickyradeon.audio=1 in grub causes a kernel lookup14:05
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BluesKajfinicky, hdmi output gets the audio from the soundcard output thru the graphics chip14:31
BluesKajso both audio and graphics drivers need to be the latest in 13.10. I found that out with setup altho mine is m-audio and nvidia graphics14:34
BluesKajmy setup that is14:34
finickyi am talking about HDMI RADEON14:44
finickyot about those nvidia stuff14:44
finickyi don't use tainted kernels here14:44
finickythe OS kernel of radeon doesn't work anymore with hdmi on 3.1014:44
finickyand i don't have a sound card on that particular system14:45
BluesKajnot suggesting anything like that , just maje sure you have the latest kernel drivers installed14:45
BluesKaj3.10 what ?14:45
holsteinfinicky: works under 3.04?14:45
finickykernel 3.10 is the latest14:46
finickynot 3.114:46
holsteinfinicky: works under 13.04? *14:46
finickyvery confusing version risotto by linux kernel devs14:46
finickyit works with an old 3.8 kernel14:47
BluesKajwell perhaps you should check if the kernel module /driver is loaded14:47
finickyit doesn't need a kernel module14:47
finickyits in the kernel14:47
finickyits not proprietary14:47
finickyi don't install proprietary drivers on that machine, because it sucks14:48
BluesKajok nm , I didn't mean that either , but have fun , i have stuff to do ...BBL14:48
holsteinthe newer kernel might not support your device as well, finicky14:48
finickyi said the kernel crashes14:49
holsteinfinicky: but, its fine in 13.04?14:49
finickykernel oops with radeon.audio=114:49
finickyyeah but i can't use those 13.0414:50
finickyi think those kernel coders don't even test their crap14:51
finickyit was working with 3.714:52
holsteinfinicky: sometimes some thing break support for other things, and that support cant be added back without breaking other things14:52
holsteinfinicky: you are always welcome to compile your own kernels..14:53
finickyyeah thats why people need to test the functionality before adding new features14:53
holsteinfinicky: if you want to be constructive, you can file a bug, and follow it closely.. and offer to help14:53
finickyi don't understand this at all14:53
finickyi think this bug is filled14:54
holsteinfinicky: think about it this way.. its just *your* specific hardware, friend14:54
finickyradeon isn't specific its everyday hw14:54
holsteinfinicky: if the bug is filed, follow up with it..14:54
finickythe chip is out now for two years14:54
holsteinfinicky: your secific hardware case is just that.. a specific hardware case.. most folks dont have or use or need HDMI audio14:55
finickyare you kidding me?14:55
finickyhdmi audio is very simple, ever had a monitor with speakers?14:57
finickyor you ever plugged a laptop to a TV?14:57
finickyso don't say its specific hardware case14:57
finickythats arrogant14:57
holsteinfinicky: ?14:57
holsteinfinicky: i only have one machine to test HDMI audio with, and its nvidia14:57
finickyhdmi audio on i915 works like a  charm14:58
holsteinfinicky: why not find the bug and offer to help test with your specific hardware?14:58
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finickyah i found it14:59
finickyi offer my help, but i don't want to wait for years14:59
finickyim sure its a regression15:00
holsteinfinicky: ?15:00
holsteinfinicky: the support has not been guaranted to you by ati/amd, correct?15:00
finickyi don't care about amd, its open source, lot of peoples reverse enginnered the stuff15:01
finickythey have to start regression tests15:02
holsteinfinicky: sure, but they are not able to offer you certain guaranteed support... and havent15:02
holsteinfinicky: the agreement you made when you purchased that hardware was that you would use it with windows.. anything else is up to you and a community who does what they can to support it15:02
finickyi just think the quality could be better with better communication and management15:03
finickya developer of a driver has to test his shit first with some testers, then add it to the mainline15:04
holsteinfinicky: the quality could be perfect with suppport from the vendor15:04
finickynot the other way15:04
* genii throws a rock somewhere in the general direction of Markham hoping to hit ATI's old offices 15:04
holsteinfinicky: you are not likely going to get that, so you got to take what you get, and try and be cooperative with volunteers15:05
finickythe other way is test it on users, and then fix it, and this is very frustrting and mire frustrating if its a regression15:05
holsteinfinicky: mire?15:05
finickyyou see just a typo could break up the communication15:06
holsteinfinicky: thats why i asked for clarification.. is that acceptable?15:06
finickyno, but human15:06
holsteinfinicky: so, its not acceptable for me to ask for clarification? but it is human?15:07
holsteinfinicky: i would join a kernel channel, and try and follow up with that bug, and try and keep in mind that you are dealing with a lot of volunteers, and try and adjust your attitude accordingly.. keep in mind you are not dealing with AMD, but with a community that you are a welcome part of15:08
finickyand you want to release saucy salami with such bugs...15:09
finickyor sausage salami15:09
ubottuUbuntu 13.10 (Saucy Salamander) will be the 19th release of Ubuntu. Announcement: http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/1252 - Discussion and support in #ubuntu+115:11
holsteinfinicky: is that what you are referring to? its not released for few months.. and i assure you, support for you specific hardware will not delay its release15:11
finickymaybe someone produces a  fork of the linux kernel, focusing on stabilty and usability for humans… thats the best way to solve this trilemma15:12
holsteinfinicky: you are welcome to15:13
holstein!info vgaswitcheroo15:16
ubottuPackage vgaswitcheroo does not exist in raring15:16
finickylater i have to cock15:24
holsteinits interesting the angles different folks see as "the definitive fix".. i would have said, if ATI/Nvidia provided proper support for linux, that would fix everything15:26
holsteinseems to me, forking the kernel would require the same level of hacking at things to get things to work with code that is locked up, or hardware you are really not invited to support15:27
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BluesKajholstein, the problem lies with amd/ati drivers lately , they aren't very linux friendly anymore16:03
holsteinBluesKaj: im still hopeful that steam will give us an advantage, or help more than it harms, at least16:03
BluesKajsteam ?16:04
ubottuValve have officially announced that they are developing Steam and are working with !ubuntu during their development, see http://blogs.valvesoftware.com/linux/steamd-penguins/ for further details, see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Valve for install instructions, you can also join #ubuntu-steam for discussion.16:04
FernandoMiguelI always think of it as Stream :O16:04
BluesKajyes but why them , they're  a gaming outfit16:04
holsteinthe gaming thing.. i think its "good" to have a company who is interested in having driver support be correct in linux16:04
FernandoMiguelBluesKaj: games = more users16:04
holsteinBluesKaj: AFAIK, they are working with nvidia and ati directly on issues relating to driver support in linux16:05
BluesKajI recall ati having great support with their fglrx drivers 4-5 yrs ago , but I haven't had any experience with ati since then ...switched to nvidia graphics and m-audio16:07
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chjuniorHey, why do I see one app in apps.ubuntu.com but I don see it in software center? this one specifically => https://apps.ubuntu.com/cat/applications/intellij-idea-ce/17:17
holsteinchjunior: https://apps.ubuntu.com/cat/applications/raring/intellij-idea-ce/17:19
chjuniorholstein, yeah, but if I search it in software center, it doesn't show up17:19
holsteinchjunior: in 13.04?17:20
holsteinchjunior: 13.10 is not out yet17:20
holstein!info intellij-idea-ce17:20
ubottuPackage intellij-idea-ce does not exist in raring17:20
chjuniorIḿ beta testing17:20
holsteinthat link says raring support is available.. doesnt say anything about 13.10 yet17:21
chjuniorgotcha, alright. Sorry about that17:21
genii!info intellij-idea-ce saucy17:24
ubottuPackage intellij-idea-ce does not exist in saucy17:24
trismit wouldn't show up in !info anyway, since apps get added from password protected ppas17:25
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finickythis thing should fit in a akasa euler18:26
finickyi heard height is 60mm18:26
finickyso inner height is at least 53mm with all that holy stuff18:27
bazhangwhats the connection to ubuntu support finicky18:27
finickyoh wrong channel lol18:27
finickyi'm not 24/7 on irc like you mr bazhang18:27
bazhangfinicky, you know the channel rules very clearly18:28
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