/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2013/07/11/#ubuntu-uk.txt

diddledan	I wonder when the watershed moment will be in a few years from now when BIOS support is dropped from mainline distros in favour of (u)EFI only :-p	00:03
directhex	diddledan, pfft, we still haven't dropped i386	00:04
diddledan	technically we have. we're still supporting i686 tho	00:05
diddledan	the kernel dropped i386 a while back	00:05
diddledan	I think the redhat-based are supporting i586+?	00:06
directhex	point is, 32-bit?	00:07
directhex	amd64 shipped in 2003 iirc	00:07
diddledan	yeah, I get your point :-)	00:07
diddledan	I think 32bit is still listed as recommended on ubuntu.com	00:08
diddledan	unless you select server	00:08
popey	directhex: having fun with DOTA?	00:08
directhex	popey, really really doesn't render here	00:09
directhex	diddledan, yeah, the recommending of i386 still is farcical imho. but there you go.	00:09
popey	i said I'd burn 28 CDs for someone for tomorrow	00:11
popey	i regret this	00:11
diddledan	I'm sure we must have reached hte point that most folk that still don't know the difference between 32/64bit are probably going to be running a 64bit-capable cpu	00:11
diddledan	and those that do know the difference can decide for themselves	00:12
directhex	bedtime.	00:14
diddledan	nn	00:15
diddledan	popey, what you burning?	00:16
popey	uh	00:17
popey	photographs of children	00:17
diddledan	popey: 10-15 minutes per burn, that could be in the order of 7 hours	00:18
popey	only ~350MB per cd	00:19
popey	nearly done, on the last two	00:20
popey	have two computers running in parallel ☻	00:20
diddledan	phew	00:21
popey	could have 3 but I am lazy	00:21
neuro	diddledan: in what world are you burning CDs at 6 speed?! 10-15 minutes per?	00:22
diddledan	neuro: +verify	00:22
neuro	pfff	00:22
popey	these are 24 speed i think	00:23
popey	"maximum"	00:23
popey	whatever a superdrive in an imac and a mbp do	00:23
popey	haha, advert for The Net on telly	00:24
neuro	i still think "what, an HD 3.5" drive?!" when someone says superdrive	00:24
popey	"Starring Sandra Bullock and a bunch of men who mostly get killed"	00:24
neuro	and i still think of the BBC 2 series rather than the movie when someone says The Net	00:24
popey	it annoys me the notification sound is the same as the ios one	00:25
neuro	and yeah, that sounds about right :)	00:25
diddledan	wtf, who gets killed?	00:25
neuro	ha	00:25
neuro	i think you'll find it's the other way round	00:25
popey	☻	00:26
neuro	i was reading an article on eurogamer about gamesmaster the other day	00:26
neuro	got me to thinking about techie/geeky progs from the 90s	00:27
popey	also	00:27
neuro	and the net was definitely my favourite	00:27
popey	it annoys me that every single apple device I own has better audio output than every single other device I own	00:27
neuro	ha	00:27
popey	iphone, ipad, mbp, imac	00:27
diddledan	gotta love that they had partrick moore as the digitised head on gamesmaster	00:27
popey	all better than every other device	00:27
neuro	if it makes you feel any better, the 13" mbp speakers are a bit crap	00:28
popey	thats what i have	00:28
Azelphur	popey: surely professional sound cards do better?	00:28
popey	i dont own any	00:28
neuro	but my 13" mbp is currently plugged into 27" apple lcd, sooo ...	00:28
Azelphur	ah	00:28
neuro	... it sounds pretty good	00:28
popey	name one laptop which has "professional" speakers and sound card	00:29
diddledan	friend at work swears by £50 USb DACs	00:29
popey	also audiophiles..	00:29
Azelphur	popey: no idea, I'd get one on USB.	00:29
Azelphur	there are some pretty decent USB sound cards, I hear	00:29
popey	no good for portability	00:29
Azelphur	but then I ain't an audiophile	00:29
popey	me either	00:29
neuro	i have a plantronics usb doohicky for my headphones, best headphone audio evar	00:29
popey	its not the card I'm talking about	00:29
neuro	plugged headphones into dell laptop, was tinny as hell	00:29
popey	its the whole sound system	00:29
neuro	plugged plantronics usb thingy in, plugged headphones in, win	00:30
neuro	popey: not many manufacturers have built-in optical support in the headphone jacks either	00:30
popey	true	00:30
diddledan	not many pc speaker systems come with optical input tho	00:31
neuro	pfff	00:31
popey	see, this is one of the very many reasons people pay more for apple kit	00:31
neuro	my mac mini in the living room is hooked up to home theater surround	00:31
neuro	so optical was a flat-out requirement rather than a nice to have	00:31
diddledan	I'll bet that gives good fuzz	00:31
neuro	no way am i putting up with dolby prologic from a stereo source when i can have DTS-ES 6.1 \o/	00:32
diddledan	although, everyone these days in surround systems seems to be all about maximum wattage	00:32
neuro	i thought these days the tipping point for getting people to buy was ipod connectors / bluetooth / airplay support	00:33
diddledan	my dad's 1960's speakers with RMS of about 20WATT can out-volume most modern-day speaker systems rated much higer wattage	00:33
neuro	your dad's speakers were owned by the 1960s?	00:33
diddledan	from the 1960's	00:34
neuro	from the 1960's what?	00:34
diddledan	era	00:34
neuro	<- grammar nazi	00:34
neuro	1960 owned an era?	00:34
neuro	interesting	00:34
diddledan	you kill grammar on a genocidal scale?	00:34
neuro	no, i'm megalomaniacal about grammar mistakes	00:35
diddledan	surely that would make you a "gramma mistake nazi"? :-p	00:35
neuro	there's no need to be too specific about it	00:35
neuro	limits your options down the line	00:35
diddledan	lol	00:36
neuro	popey: it's funny, it dawned on me today that it's nearly 5 years since the ill fated fsf "hassle the genius bars" campaign, and the epic #lugradio discussion about it all	00:36
popey	wow	00:37
popey	time passes	00:37
neuro	ya	00:37
neuro	i found the irc log too, buried deep within a vm :)	00:37
Azelphur	popey: I dunno, people have all these good things to say about apple kit	00:37
popey	http://neuro.me.uk/2008/07/28/defective-in-the-head/	00:37
popey	i speak from personal experience	00:37
Azelphur	you'd be hard pressed to find my i7 with a GT 650M at 11.6"s from Apple	00:37
Azelphur	:P	00:37
popey	i dont care	00:38
popey	properly	00:38
popey	properly do not care	00:38
neuro	neuro@cochrane:~$ ls -l logs0/Freenode/#lugradio/20080728.log.bz2	00:38
neuro	-rw------- 1 neuro users 51562 Jul 29 2008 logs0/Freenode/#lugradio/20080728.log.bz2	00:38
Azelphur	lol	00:38
popey	you value raw grunt, I do not	00:38
neuro	why would you want an i7 with a GT650M and an 11" screen?!?!	00:38
popey	each to their own	00:38
Azelphur	It's pretty decent build too, my friend kindly knocked it off my desk onto a hardwood floor, it survived without a scratch	00:38
popey	there are so many variables when buying a computer	00:38
neuro	that's like buying a ferrari and putting 13" rims on it	00:39
popey	focussing on one single thing is mental	00:39
Azelphur	neuro: it fits in my coat pocket, which means I can take it with me everywhere.	00:39
Azelphur	no more laptop bag. :)	00:39
neuro	whatever floats your boat, i guess	00:39
neuro	what make?	00:39
popey	AlanBell: used to do that with an OLPC	00:39
diddledan	I need more screen estate, not less	00:39
Azelphur	It's a Clevo.	00:39
popey	in his coat pocket	00:39
neuro	clevo	00:40
Azelphur	yea, it's cool, totally freaks people out when I whip my laptop outta my pocket	00:40
diddledan	I've got a tablet (or two) which cover the smaller form-factors	00:40
Azelphur	because it's a scottevest, they have no idea until it just magically appears	00:40
Azelphur	sometimes I pull it out when people aren't looking, and then they turn around and are like what...where did that come from	00:40
Azelphur	xD	00:40
diddledan	lol	00:40
neuro	you have some easily freakible friends, it seems	00:41
* Azelphur shrugs		00:41
popey	ooooooookay	00:41
* popey goes to bedlington		00:41
neuro	wow, clicking on 11" laptop thingy on the front page of clevo	00:41
neuro	goes to http://www/en/products....	00:41
neuro	nice	00:41
Azelphur	but yea, popey is right about me, I'm a raw horsepower kinda person, I used to cary around a Dell XPS M1730 which is probably one of the biggest, heaviest laptops ever to be on the market.	00:41
Azelphur	and I loved it :P	00:41
neuro	depends what you define as "market"	00:42
popey	i had a dell xps gen 2	00:42
neuro	i remember a few luggables that would make any xps seem like a netbook	00:42
popey	it was big/heavy/powerful	00:42
Azelphur	popey: you had an M17 too iirc at one point	00:42
popey	1600x1200, many years ago	00:42
popey	no	00:42
Azelphur	think it was the non-gamers edition though	00:42
popey	only an xps gen2	00:42
neuro	most any dell precision laptop would kick the bum of an xps in terms of mass	00:42
popey	with the silly LEDs	00:42
Azelphur	ah	00:42
popey	then it died	00:43
neuro	:(	00:43
popey	and dell screwed me over	00:43
Azelphur	:(	00:43
popey	specifically the nvidia card died	00:43
neuro	ha	00:43
popey	specifically the heat bond wasn't enough	00:43
Azelphur	popey: yea, loads of dells with nvidia problems from around that period	00:43
popey	indeed	00:43
Azelphur	my brother has a pile of them (literally)	00:43
neuro	as dell say: "oooooh, cost ya"	00:43
popey	exactly	00:43
popey	it was a month out of warranty	00:43
neuro	typical	00:43
popey	when i called and they said it would cost i said "no thanks"	00:43
popey	then they asked if i was happy with the service	00:44
popey	I said no	00:44
neuro	lol	00:44
popey	they tried to argue with me	00:44
popey	even put me through to a manager to argue with me	00:44
Azelphur	haha	00:44
popey	I was disgusted	00:44
popey	didn't touch dell for a while after that	00:44
popey	added them to the wall of shame ☻	00:44
neuro	:)	00:44
popey	http://popey.com/blog/2006/07/07/my_sick_dell_inspiron_xps_gen_2_laptop/	00:44
popey	2006!	00:44
neuro	i remember getting told a lovely story by dell one night	00:44
neuro	while sat in front of a crashed, really badly broken poweredge	00:45
neuro	and the story was how the Next Business Day support was in business hours	00:45
neuro	so if I called after 6pm	00:45
Azelphur	http://dr_fish.speedymail.org/techreport/w110er_open.jpg is my laptop I currently roll with, so much power in so little space.	00:45
neuro	and said "get someone here now"	00:45
popey	awwww http://popey.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/Image403.jpg	00:45
popey	haha	00:45
popey	nice	00:45
neuro	that 'now' meant 'next business day', which really meant 'day after tomorrow, sucker'	00:45
neuro	had to explain that one to my boss	00:46
neuro	he wasn't very pleased	00:46
Azelphur	popey: I take it out to the local national autistic society with me every week, plug it into the ~50" TV on the wall, and we all play games in Dolphin with PS3 controllers :D	00:46
neuro	had the acct manager almost literally over the coals, but was feck all he could do as the support was outsourced to Wang at the time	00:46
Azelphur	so yea, lots of grunt for such a tiny machine	00:46
popey	jeez 3 years ago i roasted my laptop http://popey.com/blog/2010/03/08/roast-laptop/	00:47
popey	time properly flies	00:47
popey	Azelphur: thats awesome	00:47
diddledan	Azelphur: that's cute	00:47
Azelphur	:)	00:48
popey	WANG!	00:48
Azelphur	might even have a photo of that somewhere I think	00:48
* Azelphur digs		00:48
neuro	popey: yeah i just read that about roasting the card, nice	00:48
diddledan	it's like a baby puter suckling it's mommy	00:48
neuro	yeah, Wang	00:48
neuro	COMPUTERWANG	00:48
popey	first heard of wang in .... uhm	00:48
popey	my first job	00:48
popey	1988	00:48
neuro	i probably saw their name in an ad in BYTE or PCW or something	00:48
popey	they had a wang pc and a pc running windows 1.0 or something	00:48
neuro	or maybe in a movie?	00:48
* popey checks his dates		00:49
neuro	"COMPUTERS PROVIDED BY WANG CORPORATION"	00:49
popey	yeah 1988 would be okay for windows 1.0 or so	00:49
* neuro shivers		00:49
popey	and now bed.	00:49
popey	☻	00:49
popey	nn chaps	00:49
diddledan	nn, popey	00:49
neuro	jings dude, didn't realise you were that much older than me	00:49
neuro	and on that note, nn	00:49
neuro	i think i too shall hit the hay	00:50
neuro	and also go to bed	00:50
* popey is 42		00:50
neuro	= 39	00:50
popey	40 this year?	00:50
neuro	next	00:50
popey	youngling	00:50
neuro	you must have left school early?	00:50
popey	nn	00:50
popey	16	00:50
popey	first job	00:50
neuro	i stayed til 18	00:50
neuro	fat good it did me	00:50
neuro	anyway	00:50
popey	I wish i did	00:50
popey	.sometimes	00:51
popey	now.. bed	00:51
neuro	lol	00:51
neuro	zz	00:51
Azelphur	hows 13.10 at the moment? I'm still on 12.10 and need to get upgrading lol	01:18
Azelphur	thinking I might just skip 13.04 and go straight to .10 a tad early ;)	01:18
=== MonsterKiller_ is now known as MonsterKiller
=== NimChimpsky is now known as RadiumCat
MooDoo	morning all	06:55
MartijnVdS	\o MooDoo	07:01
SuperMatt	morning	07:29
mungbean_	quidco gave me £5 for joining if i spent any money at ayn retailer :D	08:13
mungbean_	bought an airfix for £5.99 from argos delivered. got £5.09 paid back \o/	08:13
mungbean_	should have done this years ago	08:14
diplo	Morning all	08:14
diplo	I've been a quidco person for years, still haven't done much with it.. always forget :)	08:14
MartijnVdS	mungbean_: you know you're the product they sell right?	08:14
diplo	My friend has made about 3k in the last few years	08:14
mungbean_	MartijnVdS: well they are giving me a cut of the referral monies	08:16
bigcalm	Good morning peeps :)	08:17
bigcalm	Does toggl hate just me, or is it broken for everybody else as well?	08:17
MartijnVdS	toggl?	08:18
bigcalm	A project time tracking website. No worries :)	08:18
mungbean_	arrived at work with massive tray of brownies	08:21
mungbean_	work with a load of IT geeks, nobody interested :-\|	08:21
bigcalm	:O	08:21
bigcalm	Everybody on a diet?	08:21
TheOpenSourcerer	mungbean_: Call them chocolate cake.	08:21
=== msm is now known as Guest51304
mungbean_	triple choc white/milk/dark, they are finest brownies known to man	08:21
bigcalm	Call them girl guides	08:22
JohnRobert	hello	08:23
JohnRobert	I got xubuntu working properly on my t-420s... the trick was disabling optimus thingi in the bios	08:23
JohnRobert	bloody thing	08:23
JohnRobert	it's a shame it can't just boot up and say 'try turning off optimus in the bios'	08:24
JohnRobert	rather than refusing to work properly	08:24
mungbean_	optimus support sucks	08:24
=== mungbean_ is now known as mungbean
mungbean	did you turn it to performance mode or stamina?	08:28
mungbean	anyone here use a roof box for their carf?	08:32
mungbean	*car	08:32
popey	still not got new google maps on android	08:34
MartijnVdS	popey: they know you work for a competitor ;)	08:38
popey	hah	08:43
ali1234	i haven't got it either	08:45
mungbean	!ping	08:45
lubotu3	pong!	08:45
ali1234	seems like i can manually update through the appstore?	08:46
JohnRobert	new maps?	08:46
ali1234	yeah	08:47
ali1234	it doesn't seem that different to the old one	08:48
neuro	updated NSA API	08:48
JohnRobert	anyone know if there's a way I can set a specific route or use 'my maps' with google maps?	08:48
JohnRobert	I often go out on bike rides and use the navigation thing	08:48
JohnRobert	as it can speak the directions	08:48
JohnRobert	however, I can't specify a route with it	08:48
popey	cant you create the route on the web and then send it to your phone?	08:54
=== schwuk_away is now known as schwuk
mungbean	can someone explain roof bars to me :$	08:54
christel	you can attach things to them!	08:54
* christel nods		08:54
popey	they run along the top of the car	08:55
* popey has moved to the back garden again		08:55
neuro	ROOF RACK	08:55
mungbean	i buy a roof box, i have to buy roof bars too	08:55
christel	does your car have roof bars to which you can attach your box or do you need to get roof bars fitted?	08:55
popey	my car has them	08:55
neuro	yeah, you'll need the bars to attach the granny box to	08:55
popey	\o/ volvo	08:55
christel	i drive a volvo so i have them by def...	08:55
christel	jinx!	08:55
neuro	if you don't have mounting points	08:55
christel	:P	08:55
neuro	volvooooooo	08:56
mungbean	i have a fcous esate. it has black trim along the top	08:56
mungbean	do i need a roof rack as well as the box?	08:56
neuro	you know what i'm going to say	08:56
neuro	you'll hate it	08:56
neuro	but	08:56
neuro	RTFM	08:56
neuro	:)	08:56
mungbean	i don't have the box yet,	08:56
mungbean	i'm gathering requirements	08:56
mungbean	but no rails come with box	08:56
neuro	no, but surely your owner's manual will tell you if you have mounting points along the roof trim	08:57
neuro	and	08:57
neuro	hang on	08:57
mungbean	ok, so how do i mount the box to the mount points	08:57
christel	mungbean: i suspect you will need to purchase rails/bars that fit your car	08:57
christel	halfords sell them	08:57
neuro	yeah, exactly, how do you mount the box	08:57
neuro	with rails/bars, surely :)	08:57
* neuro is confused and goes back to his mcdonald's strawberry/banana smoothie		08:58
mungbean	they seem expensive	08:58
neuro	they are!	08:58
neuro	it was like 2 pound something	08:58
mungbean	200	08:58
neuro	it wasn't that expensive	08:58
ali1234	strawberry and banana? mixed together?	08:58
mungbean	roof bars , not MCD	08:58
neuro	s'only a drink!	08:58
neuro	ali1234: yar	08:59
=== DGJones is now known as DJones
ali1234	is that a real thing or did you just ask for half and half?	08:59
neuro	it's a real thing	08:59
ali1234	because it sounds disgusting	08:59
neuro	it's awesome	08:59
neuro	http://www.mcdonalds.co.uk/ukhome/more-food/iced-fruit-smoothies-iced-frappes.html	09:00
mungbean	banana is often used to thicken smoothie	09:00
ali1234	well they always used to do strawberry or banana milkshake	09:00
ali1234	is it just like those mixed together?	09:01
neuro	this isn't a milkshake	09:01
ali1234	or is smoothie different?	09:01
neuro	it's a smoothie	09:01
brobostigon	good morning everyone,	09:01
mungbean	what are T-track fittings?	09:01
ali1234	more liquidy?	09:01
neuro	puree + juice + yoghurt + ice	09:01
neuro	more liquidy, more icy	09:01
neuro	mungbean: it's the black strip	09:02
mungbean	as opposed to "fixing points"	09:02
JohnRobert	popey, yeah, but I don't think I can get navigation to follow the map	09:02
ali1234	fixing points are fixed points... the t track thing can slide in one direction... i guess	09:02
neuro	http://www.roofbox.co.uk/roof-bars/roof-bars-racks-faq.php#question4	09:03
neuro	"4. What is a T track?"	09:03
mungbean	lol i'm on that site	09:03
=== schwuk is now known as schwuk_away
mungbean	"Aluminium bars have a load limit of 75kg if this is supported by the car on which they are being used."	09:03
JamesTait	Good morning all, happy World Population Day! :-D	09:03
neuro	you what? :)	09:03
neuro	are we celebrating the existing population or is this a call to continue adding to it?	09:04
* popey gets jiggy with neuro		09:05
popey	oh, that's not going to work is it	09:05
neuro	not really, no	09:05
ali1234	http://www.roofbox.co.uk/roof-bars/ <- has pictures of each mounting type	09:05
neuro	not without some sort of biological upgrade	09:05
popey	sidegrade	09:06
JamesTait	neuro, an attempt to raise awareness of global population issues, apparently.	09:06
neuro	and a lot of single malt	09:06
popey	haha	09:06
popey	nah, you're not that ugly ㋛	09:06
JamesTait	GET A ROOM! :-P	09:06
popey	/join #popey-and-neuro	09:06
neuro	i wasn't talking about me!	09:06
popey	i know ☻	09:06
neuro	lol	09:06
neuro	/join #worldpopulationday-ifyouknowwhatimean	09:07
neuro	And on THAT bombshell ...	09:07
neuro	wow, i killed the channel	09:11
neuro	didn't really mean to do that	09:11
neuro	unless everyone's join those other channels ;)	09:11
popey	heh	09:11
neuro	s/join/joined/	09:11
Laney	we were all doing our bit	09:13
neuro	jpc	09:13
bigcalm	I just want sleep	09:13
* popey updated home minecraft server to 1.6.2		09:16
neuro	ooh	09:16
popey	seems you get baby zombies and baby pigmen now	09:16
neuro	lol	09:16
popey	who run fast	09:17
neuro	i need to get back into minecraft	09:17
popey	and there seems to be a bug where animals run all the time	09:17
neuro	been ages since i've fired it up on mac	09:17
neuro	played it a bit on the xbox with some mates	09:17
popey	my kids will be playing it for the next ~weeks	09:17
popey	they break up from school today	09:17
popey	so i thought I'd update it for them ☻	09:17
neuro	geek dads ftw	09:17
popey	\o/	09:17
popey	also, sophie wants to write a game this summer	09:18
neuro	someone should set up sysadmindads.org	09:18
bigcalm	That makes me think of Mum's Net	09:20
neuro	oh jeez	09:20
bigcalm	Yeah	09:20
neuro	i wandered in there by accident the other day	09:20
neuro	found a thread where parents were asking about buying CoD Black Ops II for their kids	09:21
neuro	like 8-12 yr old kids	09:21
neuro	virtually every post was facepalm worthy	09:21
popey	haha	09:21
neuro	i talked a couple in Tesco out of buying Cod and BF3 for their 8 year old last year	09:22
neuro	explained to them that the ratings on the front of the boxes were there for a reason	09:22
MartijnVdS	neuro: "Get GTA4 instead, they can murder prostitutes in that one!"	09:22
neuro	and that they were filled with violence, blood and swearing, and they were completely age inappropriate for an 8 year old	09:22
neuro	they were like "ohhhhhh???"	09:22
neuro	they had NO idea	09:22
neuro	seems to be mainly peer pressure that gets kids < 16 playing CoD	09:23
neuro	"but mummy, all my friends are playing it!" "well, ok then"	09:23
neuro	facedesk	09:23
MartijnVdS	neuro: "You have no friends"	09:23
ali1234	i still maintain that they're not age appropriate for anyone over the age of 16 either	09:24
neuro	why?	09:24
ali1234	because of the violence blood and swearing	09:24
neuro	i mean, i don't play CoD because a) it's rubbish and b) it's generally played only by kids and muppets	09:24
* neuro prefers battlefield		09:25
neuro	ali1234: do you also not watch any movies with violence, blood and/or swearing?	09:25
neuro	or tv shows?	09:25
ali1234	it depends	09:25
ali1234	if that's all they have, then no	09:25
neuro	i'm not hassling, i'm just curious	09:25
neuro	"they"?	09:25
ali1234	it's more like "because they don't have anything else to offer"	09:25
ali1234	they = games, tv shows and movies	09:25
neuro	battlefield offers a stylised military simulation, encouraging tactical and team play	09:26
bigcalm	Still waiting for Minecraft the movie	09:26
ali1234	does it?	09:26
neuro	yup	09:26
popey	watched the film about minecraft?	09:26
popey	well, about mojang	09:26
ali1234	cos whenever i see anyone playing it it just looks like rocket spam and helicopters	09:27
neuro	mo-jaaaaaaaaang	09:27
bigcalm	Didn't know there was one	09:27
popey	it was kickstartered	09:27
neuro	ali1234: you're playing with muppets then :)	09:27
popey	they put it on tpb iirc	09:27
popey	with a watermark suggesting you should actually pay for the real one	09:27
neuro	yeah, it was streamable on the xbox for a bit	09:27
ali1234	ARMA seems to actually offer a fairly realistic simulation	09:27
neuro	they made a big thing about it	09:27
bigcalm	My nanny ISP doesn't let me go to tpb any more :(	09:27
popey	other torrent sites are available	09:27
neuro	arma is definitely more "realistic" than battlefield	09:27
JohnRobert	try googling tpb mirror	09:27
popey	also.. i use mirrors	09:28
directhex	i don't play games with other people very often	09:28
popey	http://www.piratebayproxylist.com/	09:28
JohnRobert	many people clone tpb to other sites	09:28
directhex	as other people are, by and large, gibbering monkeys	09:28
neuro	popey: tut tut :)	09:28
bigcalm	directhex: you should buy Trials Evolution and play with me :D	09:28
popey	legal torrents innit	09:28
neuro	oh dear god, no	09:28
JohnRobert	I was talking about tall parent broncos	09:28
ali1234	if rocket spamming is the best tactic then it's not the player's fault if that's what they do	09:28
ali1234	it means the game is broken	09:28
JohnRobert	quake2	09:28
JohnRobert	best game ever.	09:28
neuro	every time i play trials evolution, i end up wanting to put my joypad through the telly	09:28
directhex	i used to play quake 2 online	09:29
directhex	...	09:29
directhex	350 ping]	09:29
JohnRobert	me too	09:29
JohnRobert	mine was around 2500	09:29
JohnRobert	still pwned.	09:29
neuro	ali1234: i'd take issue with "best"	09:29
directhex	unreal tournament, now that i enjoyed playing competitively	09:29
JohnRobert	anyway, back to zend framework 2.	09:29
bigcalm	Boooo	09:29
neuro	ali1234: the best servers are always ones where players abide by the mantra PTFO	09:29
neuro	Play The ****ing Objective	09:30
ali1234	best = most likely to win	09:30
directhex	bigcalm, buying games this morning is dumb, the sale starts in ~7 hours	09:30
popey	ooh	09:30
neuro	ali1234: i'd only say rocket spamming was good for "winning" at team deathmatch	09:30
bigcalm	directhex: ah, somebody at the LUG last night mentioned there was a sale coming up. Hope BioShock is in it	09:30
neuro	you're not going to win at rush, or ctf, or conquest, etc by rocket spamming	09:30
neuro	i think you've seen one specific scenario and conflated it to cover the entire game	09:30
directhex	bigcalm, everything is in it. EVERYTHING.	09:31
bigcalm	o.O	09:31
directhex	bigcalm, you don't know standard steam sale etiquette then?	09:31
ali1234	in a good game you're not going to win at anything by rocket spamming because you won't get more than 2 or 3 rockets per quad	09:31
neuro	sale? where? steam?	09:31
ali1234	*squad	09:31
popey	directhex: i dont	09:31
neuro	ali1234: um	09:31
bigcalm	directhex: do educate me :)	09:31
directhex	i guess this is the first steam sale for many ubuntoobies	09:31
neuro	ali1234: squad explosive perk + ammo crates	09:31
popey	ya	09:31
directhex	okay	09:31
directhex	steam sales are typically divided into three main camps:	09:32
neuro	1) rubbish	09:32
neuro	2) old	09:32
neuro	3) OMGOMGOMG	09:32
* neuro runs		09:32
bigcalm	Heh	09:32
directhex	1) short-term sales. these run from about 4 to 48 hours, and offer the best prices on individual games. a game might appear more than once as a short term sale over the duration of the entire sale	09:32
directhex	2) whole catalogue sales. almost every game on steam will have some reduction applied to it	09:33
ali1234	neuro: and that's the inherent conflict - the gameplay mechanics are designed for kids with short attention span, while the story and content is only suitable for adults	09:33
ali1234	neuro: thus as a whole the game is not suitable for anybody	09:33
neuro	ali1234: it sounds like you've never actually played bf3 or any other battlefield game in earnest	09:33
directhex	3) publisher packs. this typically consists of all or most of the games made by a given publisher, sold at a massive bundle discount (e.g. thirty games from 2K for under 30 quid)	09:33
ali1234	there are tv shows and movies like this too	09:33
neuro	yes, there are dumb tv shows/movies full of violence and swearing etc	09:34
neuro	but there are smart ones too	09:34
ali1234	yeah	09:34
bigcalm	My wallet is going to feel the impact I fear	09:34
directhex	the short version is, don't buy a game unless it's in category 1 or 3 - until the final day of the sale, when it's clear that game you were waiting for wont go on super sale	09:34
neuro	my favourite film of all time is Heat	09:34
neuro	it's full of violence, blood and swearing	09:34
neuro	tell me it's not an intelligent movie	09:34
ali1234	i'm not talking about the smart ones	09:34
neuro	ah, now you're qualifying :)	09:35
directhex	fr'example, a game might be 33% off "normally" in the sale, but 75% off for 8 hours in a short-term sale	09:35
neuro	directhex: I LOVE THOSE	09:35
ali1234	well, i started off talking specifically about two games	09:35
popey	thanks directhex	09:35
directhex	so you're dumb if you buy it at 33% off because you didn't wait for it to be 75% off	09:35
neuro	ali1234: and to me, bf is the smarter cousin of cod	09:35
ali1234	sure	09:35
ali1234	butthat's not saying much	09:35
ali1234	lol butt hat	09:36
neuro	the publisher packs are awesome, but only if you have few or none of the games in the pack (duh)	09:36
neuro	haha	09:36
directhex	yes, neuro is correct	09:36
neuro	which is why i've never bought the steam pub packs	09:36
directhex	i bought many publisher packs in the early days of steam sales, so now they're no use to me	09:36
neuro	because i have most of them already	09:36
neuro	yeah, would be nice if they could calculate a discount based on what you have already	09:36
neuro	although that may be somewhat complex	09:36
neuro	and unfair	09:36
directhex	that's a point to stress - in ALMOST all cases, if you own game FooBar, and buy a pack which also contains FooBar, you will NOT receive a spare copy	09:36
directhex	it'll throw the second copy in the virtual bin	09:37
neuro	and then virtually stamp on it	09:37
neuro	and then emit an evil virtual cackly laugh	09:37
neuro	"ha ha ha ha ha!"	09:37
MartijnVdS	don't you even get a hat for it?	09:37
MartijnVdS	(virtual hat)	09:37
neuro	nope, not even a butt hat	09:37
ali1234	virtual butt hat?	09:37
directhex	for more detail, see https://support.steampowered.com/kb_article.php?ref=4502-TPJL-2656	09:37
ali1234	what's te deal with trading cards now? are they the new hats?	09:38
directhex	sorta	09:38
directhex	hats, but for any game!	09:38
popey	i seem to own about half of the possible linux games	09:38
ali1234	hats are for any game aren't they?	09:38
ali1234	i mean you can only wear them in TF2...	09:38
ali1234	but you can get them all over the place i thought	09:38
bigcalm	Humble Bundles are to blame for a lot of those I'm guessing	09:38
popey	ya	09:38
bigcalm	Same here	09:38
directhex	ali1234, there are often promotional tie-ins, i.e. "buy this game, get 3 tf2 hats"	09:39
neuro	it would have been interesting to see what would have become of the xbox live marketplace had microsoft stuck to their guns	09:39
neuro	could have become very steam like	09:39
neuro	that's the only problem i have with the xbox one, small storage	09:40
neuro	i joined playstation plus in december and the 250GB hd in my ps3 is nearly full	09:40
ali1234	do achievments and trading cards work in steam for linux?	09:40
neuro	of couse	09:40
neuro	s/couse/course/	09:41
ali1234	cos the only game i've played enough to earn any, they don't	09:41
ali1234	i guess just that game is broken then	09:41
ali1234	i guess TF2 works but then that's valve, you'd expect it to	09:41
neuro	why would they make a big thing out of steam on linux and then cripple it?	09:41
popey	231 linux games in total, I have 68 it seems	09:41
popey	still plenty to buy ☻	09:41
neuro	good lord, man	09:41
ali1234	i don't think it's intentionally broken	09:41
ali1234	just kinda half broken sometimes	09:42
* neuro hopes his bonus comes through this week		09:45
neuro	have my eye on a synology nas :)	09:45
MartijnVdS	synology <3	09:46
neuro	DS213J with 2x 2TB WD Reds for 380 quid from ebuyer :)	09:46
bigcalm	In case anybody is interested, spex4less are having a sale on prescription sunglasses: http://www.spex4less.com/sale_offer_sunglasses.shtml	09:47
neuro	gonna mirror it and use it as an iscsi target for an ESXi datastore	09:47
bigcalm	About to throw 25 quid at them for a decent enough pair	09:47
neuro	the 1TB drive in my main ESXi box is knackered	09:47
* popey is rocking out		09:47
* neuro is daftpunking out		09:47
popey	http://www.last.fm/user/popeydc	09:48
neuro	NICE	09:48
bigcalm	I seem to have Orbital on this morning	09:48
neuro	http://www.last.fm/user/evilneuro	09:48
popey	we are having scrobble support in the ubuntu phone music app	09:48
popey	love that tron legacy album	09:49
neuro	it's awesome, isn't it	09:49
popey	yeah, but then i really love the flim too	09:49
neuro	</aol>	09:49
popey	watched it a dozen times i think	09:49
popey	when i rented it on virgin i watched it 3 times in the 24 hours you're allowed ㋛	09:49
neuro	hahaha ... "Your musical compatibility with popeydc is SUPER"	09:50
popey	yeah ☻	09:50
* neuro hugs his TRON/TRON Legacy blu ray double pack		09:50
popey	that looks _so_ camp when I read it	09:50
neuro	ha, so it does	09:50
neuro	OMG, it's SOOOOOPERRRR!	09:50
popey	Big Gay Al.	09:50
neuro	lol	09:50
popey	\o/ Jabber	09:51
MattJ	Jabber \o/	09:51
neuro	see, popey, now i have a problem	09:51
neuro	i was up for some daft punk this morning	09:51
neuro	but when i see Won't Get Fooled Again ...	09:51
neuro	and Ace of Spades	09:51
neuro	YOU CONFUSE ME	09:51
popey	yeah, they kickstarted me this morning	09:52
neuro	this is still my favourite thing for when i need a boost in the morning	09:53
neuro	http://www.last.fm/music/The+Crystal+Method/_/Drive:+Nike+%252B+Original+Run+(Continuous+Mix)	09:53
neuro	45 minutes of non stop Crystal Method	09:53
neuro	best thing i bought off the itunes store in years	09:54
neuro	in fact, sod daft punk	09:54
popey	haha	09:54
* bigcalm slides around to Zero 7		09:55
* popey foot-taps in the garden with headphones on		09:56
popey	need to take these off before the kids come home and run out here and scare the bejeezus out of me	09:56
* neuro posts the first shout in the ubuntu-uk last.fm group for nearly 4 yrs		09:57
popey	Your musical compatibility with jonobacon is LOW	09:58
popey	quelle surprise	09:59
neuro	haha	09:59
neuro	morn aq	09:59
popey	http://www.last.fm/group/Canonical	09:59
davmor2	Morning all	10:00
neuro	allo	10:00
bigcalm	Morning davmor2	10:00
=== emmy is now known as Guest59849
davmor2	JamesTait: I know I'm a few seconds early	10:00
davmor2	bigcalm: told you I'd see you online in the morning, ye of little faith :D	10:01
JamesTait	davmor2, close enough for me, I was pretty late this morning.	10:01
JamesTait	davmor2, and good morning to you, sir.	10:01
bigcalm	davmor2: only because I cba so far today	10:01
davmor2	bigcalm: man having another dev on the team sure has made you lax :P	10:02
bigcalm	davmor2: gah, far from it. A lot of my time has been spent providing support	10:02
popey	this is odd http://www.last.fm/user/AJ2002 just friend requested me	10:19
MartijnVdS	Your musical compatibility with popeydc is HIGH	10:21
popey	lastfm is very shouty	10:21
=== schwuk_away is now known as schwuk
mungbean	if amazon can do autrip for CDs, i wish they would do autorip for books :D	10:32
MartijnVdS	mungbean: that would ROCK	10:32
MartijnVdS	though I can't get to my autoripped CDs	10:32
mungbean	oh why?	10:32
MartijnVdS	mungbean: can't access the UK mp3 storage from .nl	10:32
MartijnVdS	only the US storage	10:32
MartijnVdS	yay "rights"	10:32
mungbean	tor exit node?	10:32
MartijnVdS	mungbean: haven't tried my vps yet ;)	10:33
MartijnVdS	mungbean: also, I've already non-auto-ripped them ;)	10:33
* popey notes everyone everywhere says amazon should do autorip for books		10:33
mungbean	yeah and that	10:33
MartijnVdS	popey: also vidoe	10:33
popey	I have yet to have a conversation with someone about autorip which didn't result in them saying that	10:33
ali1234	by autorip you mean give you a free ebook if you already have a paper copy?	10:33
mungbean	yeah, althoug i've noticed an increase in mp3 album prices lately	10:34
popey	yeah	10:34
popey	i think people want to have ebooks of past purchases	10:34
popey	not sure why	10:34
mungbean	because reading books sucks, and reading on kindle rocks	10:34
MartijnVdS	I did get the email that Amazon autoripped >160 CDs for me	10:34
popey	but you've already read them surely?	10:34
bigcalm	Save them getting out of bed and looking at the bookshelf for something to read	10:34
mungbean	no	10:35
ali1234	say you want to read it agan but you can't find it	10:35
MartijnVdS	popey: re-reading books can be fun	10:35
popey	true	10:35
mungbean	and i'm re-reading all the hitchhikers actually	10:35
popey	hehe	10:35
ali1234	or it might be a reference text	10:35
mungbean	my others are in the loft	10:35
popey	i haven't read those for years	10:35
popey	i listened to teh audio book versions over and over	10:35
popey	well, audio play	10:35
mungbean	got them for 2.29 for set of 5	10:35
bigcalm	I put a book on my Amazon wish list and was bought it for my birthday. 1/4 way into reading the book I realised I had already read it. Just about 20 years ago :D	10:35
mungbean	which book? noddy?	10:36
mungbean	there's loads of books i have in the loft because i made a couple of babies	10:36
popey	i need to clear out the books in my office	10:36
popey	as it's being converted to a kids room this month	10:36
bigcalm	Issac Asimov - The Naked Sun	10:36
mungbean	i'm more inclined to read them on my tablet	10:37
mungbean	my wife wants an extensions	10:37
mungbean	not sure whether loft or outback	10:37
bigcalm	popey: finally making the move to the garage?	10:37
bigcalm	mungbean: toilet extension?	10:37
mungbean	a new room	10:37
popey	once the den is converted	10:37
popey	see if we have enough money left to do the garage	10:38
popey	if not I'll spend all summer working outside ☻	10:38
popey	like I am now	10:38
bigcalm	Hah	10:38
mungbean	i "did" my shed the other day..hundreds of snails and spiders	10:38
mungbean	outside gives you cancer, dailymail told me	10:38
ali1234	literally everything and everyone on the internet is named after something from a sci-fi or fantasy novel	10:39
ali1234	every time i read one i get about 100 new references	10:39
mungbean	reminded of a line in catch-22..	10:40
mungbean	"where are the snowdens of yesteryear"	10:40
mungbean	how apt	10:40
ali1234	i was talking to my brother the other day and he was comparing LotR and something else, saying the other thing was more influential on geek culture. i think the other thing might have been star wars.	10:42
ali1234	that's clearly nonsense. there's far more gandalfs and legolas than han solos and darth vaders on the internet	10:45
MartijnVdS	ali1234: http://i.imgur.com/4Jzu0.png	10:45
MartijnVdS	ali1234: maybe he meant MLP:FIM	10:45
mungbean	lotr influenced other fantasy culture a lot	10:45
MartijnVdS	mungbean: too much, imho	10:46
mungbean	star wars influenced 8yr old boys	10:46
MartijnVdS	it's all dwarves + humans + elves vs (same 3 but evil)	10:46
ali1234	that picture needs to be taken further by replacing patrick stewart with jonathan frakes photoshopped into a stillsuit with vampire fangs	10:49
MartijnVdS	ali1234: offend ALL the fandoms	10:49
ali1234	well there's no point doing half a job	10:50
=== alan_g is now known as alan_g\|errands
directhex	shower handset: £16	11:58
directhex	same handset with hose & riser rail: £20	11:58
JohnRobert	picard ftw.	12:24
JohnRobert	best character in anything ever.	12:24
Azelphur	hmm, anyone have any suggestions on what everyday shop might stock magnetic tape? :p	12:25
* Azelphur doesn't want to order it online and wait		12:25
mungbean	B&Q?	12:25
Azelphur	could do, there's one not too far from here :)	12:25
mungbean	you might wanna pick up some sugru in there too	12:26
Azelphur	what's that for?	12:26
mungbean	its like an awesome use-once blue-tac that turns to rubber once you've applied it	12:27
mungbean	lots of uses.	12:27
JohnRobert	I have some of that	12:27
JohnRobert	still not used it	12:27
mungbean	e.g. for creating a comfrotable hand-grip around a metal tap	12:27
mungbean	repairing a welly boot	12:27
JohnRobert	sugaru	12:27
JohnRobert	or something	12:27
MartijnVdS	sugru	12:28
Azelphur	hehe	12:28
MartijnVdS	JohnRobert: you're thinking of subaru ;)	12:28
JohnRobert	still don't know what to do with it	12:28
Azelphur	I'm getting it for my latest silly plan, https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/3832397/Photos/2013/Jun/2013-07-11-132206.jpg	12:28
MartijnVdS	JohnRobert: they have lots of ideas on their website	12:28
JohnRobert	wireless charging?	12:28
mungbean	and youtubes	12:28
Azelphur	portable battery connected to induction charger works, now I just put a bit of magnetic tape on the induction charger so it sticks to the phone, and then put the whole assembly in my pocket, :D	12:28
JohnRobert	great	12:29
JohnRobert	except you'll kill the compass inside the phone	12:29
mungbean	do you need your goands Azelphur ?	12:29
mungbean	*gonads	12:29
MartijnVdS	Azelphur: because the phone doesn't have a charger port on USB?	12:29
Azelphur	JohnRobert: it's designed for that, the nexus orb uses magnets to hold the phone on	12:29
JohnRobert	o	12:29
JohnRobert	I have nexus4	12:29
JohnRobert	it's good	12:29
Azelphur	http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/18ec4kgczda18png/original.png :)	12:29
Azelphur	MartijnVdS: it does, but having it auto charge simply by putting it in your pocket is awesome :p	12:30
JohnRobert	heh	12:30
JohnRobert	good...where does the charging battery go?	12:30
Azelphur	JohnRobert: in a different pocket, I have a scottevest so it has cable routing between all pockets \o/	12:30
JohnRobert	oh right	12:30
MartijnVdS	Azelphur: aren't the losses greater when charging wirelessly?	12:30
JohnRobert	cool	12:30
JohnRobert	MartijnVdS: certainly.	12:31
Azelphur	MartijnVdS: sure	12:31
Azelphur	I got 12k mAh in that thing, should compensate.	12:31
JohnRobert	induction charging is really inefficient	12:31
mungbean	does wireless charging create a lot of heat?	12:31
JohnRobert	probably not at that level	12:31
JohnRobert	who knows	12:32
JohnRobert	not me	12:32
Azelphur	I've been charging my phone for a while now and see no noticable rise in temperature	12:32
mungbean	i'd still keep it away from my gonads	12:32
MartijnVdS	Azelphur: 1.2kmAh = 1200Ah ;)	12:32
Azelphur	mungbean: haha	12:32
MartijnVdS	Azelphur: don't use two modifiers at once ;)	12:32
* Azelphur hides		12:32
MartijnVdS	Azelphur: please?	12:32
popey	i plugged my battery into itself earlier by accident	12:42
BigRedS_	is that a nexus with a wireless charger?	12:42
=== BigRedS_ is now known as BigRedS
popey	the charging light came on	12:42
popey	induction charger, yes	12:43
BigRedS	oh wow. I'm doubly wrong :/ Ages ago I made a bet that Apple would be the first to do it, and nobody would until Apple made it cool	12:43
BigRedS	and now it's been exclusively Nokia for a while, and then whoever Google got to make that...	12:43
popey	LG	12:43
popey	nexus 7 does it too IIRC	12:44
popey	(asus)	12:44
BigRedS	LG? Google really should buy a handset manufactuer...	12:44
directhex	ahem	12:44
MartijnVdS	BigRedS: like Motorola?	12:44
directhex	palm pre.	12:44
MartijnVdS	aren't there 26 competing wireless charging standards or something?	12:44
directhex	from 2010	12:44
BigRedS	MartijnVdS: probably	12:44
BigRedS	directhex: really? If I knew that i'd probably have bought one	12:44
directhex	wireless charging, via optional "touchstone" dock and replacement battery cover	12:44
BigRedS	it's a gimmick I've been waiting for for _years_	12:45
directhex	future models shipped with the battery cover	12:45
mungbean	kindle is a swindle. this book is available as books 1,2,3 http://www.amazon.co.uk/1Q84-Books-1-2-3/dp/0099578077 but not on kindle. you have to buy separate, and they are only ~50p less than the real thing	12:45
directhex	mungbean, talk to the publishers	12:45
mungbean	i clicked the link	12:45
mungbean	various times 6 months ago	12:45
BigRedS	I don't understand the problem. There's a dead-tree compilatoin of books 1-3 but for kindle you need to buy them separately for a total cost not a lot less than the real thing?	12:46
BigRedS	I mean, I understand that problem, is that the right one?	12:47
mungbean	no	12:47
mungbean	dead tree comp = £9	12:47
mungbean	kindle have to buy 1,2 together = £6 , and book3 separately = £6ish	12:48
mungbean	dead tree < kindle	12:48
BigRedS	oh, wow	12:48
MartijnVdS	that happens a lot in the US as well	12:48
mungbean	its 1328 pages. i don't want big book	12:48
BigRedS	I've not seen much of that. But I only buy really cheap books with my kindle...	12:48
popey	that makes sense	12:48
popey	you need to get rid of dead tree books	12:49
popey	they take up space	12:49
popey	ebooks do not	12:49
popey	so less motivation to drop the price to "shift" them	12:49
mungbean	but ebook more expensive = insanity	12:49
BigRedS	not really, they want to sell dead tree ones more than they do ebooks	12:50
mungbean	disagree	12:50
BigRedS	if they think people will pay more for the ebook than they will for dead tree then they will charge that way	12:50
mungbean	ultimately they want to sell only ebooks	12:50
BigRedS	not when they have a warehouse full of paper	12:50
popey	ebooks have vat too	12:50
mungbean	another option is to buy books 1,2 on kindle and get book3 from the library, but that's the only one in the library	12:51
popey	http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/9216138/Why-do-ebooks-cost-so-much.html covers it	12:51
mungbean	i said "do you have books1,2?"	12:51
mungbean	no, not in the whole borough. "but you have to read 1,2 before 3"	12:51
mungbean	and it is a recentg book	12:51
* MattJ thinks he needs more signatures on his PGP key		13:10
MartijnVdS	MattJ: you ALWAYS need more signatures on your PGP key	13:11
MartijnVdS	everyone does!	13:11
popey	i do	13:11
popey	i have like.. none	13:11
MartijnVdS	popey: aren't there canonical geeks who can sign yours?	13:11
Azelphur	how is 13.10 these days? is it in a usable day to day state more or less?	13:12
MattJ	Since I sign software releases with mine, I feel it should be easy for them to find a trust path to me (else, what am I signing it for?)	13:12
MartijnVdS	Azelphur: it's been usable for a while now	13:12
Azelphur	I'm still on 12.10 so thinking of jumping on a bit early and saving myself some hassle	13:12
Azelphur	cool	13:13
MartijnVdS	13.04 is good anyway :)	13:13
Azelphur	I'll give the 13.10 daily a shot then :)	13:13
Azelphur	xubuntu, that is	13:13
* popey is staying on 13.04		13:13
Azelphur	popey: why?	13:13
popey	it works ☻	13:13
Azelphur	good answer :P	13:13
popey	dont feel the need to upgrade	13:14
Azelphur	yea, I'm upgrading because I have lots of out of date packages / lots of stuff that doesn't have builds for quantal any more	13:14
BigRedS	Azelphur: I stuck it on my laptop last night, seems good	13:14
BigRedS	so far	13:14
Azelphur	thinking of that, I should probably go 13.04 too, nothing has builds for 13.10 yet	13:14
* bigcalm ponders a key signing party at his wedding		13:19
MartijnVdS	bigcalm: "My Big Fat Geek Wedding" ?	13:20
bigcalm	Ha	13:20
popey	excellent idea!	13:22
=== alan_g\|errands is now known as alan_g
* neuro is sticking with 12.04 :P		13:32
neuro	support until 2017 ftw	13:32
bigcalm	LTS on servers. Nuts if you do it any other way :P	13:34
neuro	totally	13:34
neuro	lifecycle is too short for non-LTS releases	13:35
neuro	debian releases are too unpredictable	13:35
neuro	red hat/centos is ... well, red hat/centos	13:35
neuro	fedora on a server is just suicidal	13:35
neuro	and don't get me started on gentoo	13:35
neuro	oh good, the dogs in the houses on either side of me are talking to each other	13:36
davmor2	neuro: so you use Sles then right? /me ducks for the bunker	13:37
neuro	ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha, no	13:37
neuro	now it's three dogs	13:38
neuro	SHUT UP!	13:38
=== msm is now known as Guest32457
popey	kinda wish I'd stayed on 12.04 on my laptop	13:46
neuro	can't you backup/reinstall?	13:46
popey	next time i get a new SSD I will go back	13:46
popey	yeah	13:46
popey	i resisted for so long	13:46
neuro	well, of course you can but i guess the point is do you want to :)	13:46
popey	i have backups	13:47
popey	i could wipe right now	13:47
* neuro is pondering ram + sshd upgrades for both MBPs		13:47
popey	ooh, thats a thought, i could go to 16GB in this maybe	13:47
neuro	main issue with it is that the only reasonably priced hybrid drives are seagate	13:47
neuro	and seagate = teh suck in my experienc	13:47
neuro	e	13:47
neuro	although 109 quid for 750GB 7200rpm HDD+32GB SLC SSD is pretty good	13:48
neuro	oops, 8GB SLC SSD :P	13:49
neuro	which is apparently "enough"	13:49
neuro	ram is probably the best thing for now, i'm constantly butting up against 8GB with so many tabs open in chrome	13:51
neuro	jings, ram is cheap!	13:54
MartijnVdS	yeah.. I have 16GB in my machine..	13:54
MartijnVdS	of the fast stuff®	13:54
neuro	98 quid for 2x8GB PC3-12800 and 101 quid for 2x8GB PC3-10600	13:55
neuro	lol	13:55
MartijnVdS	I don't know PC3-12800-style.. I know mine is 2133MG	13:55
MartijnVdS	MHz	13:55
neuro	THE FAST STUFF. COMING TO THEATRES AUGUST 9.	13:55
MartijnVdS	neuro: 2133 is PC3-17066, apparently	13:55
MartijnVdS	because.. reasons	13:56
neuro	jeez	13:56
neuro	lol	13:56
neuro	i still remember when a gig of ram was in the hundreds	13:56
neuro	of quid	13:56
MartijnVdS	neuro: I remember when a meg of ram was that expensive :)	13:57
neuro	then again, i still remember getting excited over getting 512Kbps ADSL	13:57
neuro	MartijnVdS: 256KB graphics cards!!!	13:57
neuro	waaaoooow	13:57
MartijnVdS	neuro: 256 colours!	13:57
MartijnVdS	neuro: AT ONCE	13:57
neuro	!!!!! ARE YOU MAD!	13:58
neuro	haha, lubotu3 just pinged me	13:58
MartijnVdS	because of the !!!?	13:58
neuro	yeah	13:58
neuro	"wait, you mean i can get a floppy disk drive?! for my Spectrum!?"	13:58
neuro	"WHAT SORCERY IS THIS"	13:59
neuro	and so on	13:59
neuro	#include <eeeeee-when-i-were-a-lad.h>	13:59
MartijnVdS	#include <magnets.h>	14:00
neuro	STAY AWAY FROM MY TAPE DECK, YOU FIEND!	14:00
neuro	hmm, email from sony	14:06
neuro	"Few days left to claim your Xperia™ smartphone"	14:06
neuro	ooooh	14:06
neuro	"When you buy a BRAVIA TV before the 14th July"	14:06
neuro	oh	14:06
* TheOpenSourcerer recalls paying ~£500 for a 64MB upgrade to my 486DX		14:10
TheOpenSourcerer	That was to replace the installed 32MB	14:11
popey	Ahhh, those were the days	14:11
popey	I probably still have some 30pin dimms here	14:12
TheOpenSourcerer	me too somewhere	14:12
bigcalm	Make for good key fobs	14:12
popey	brilliant idea	14:12
AlanBell	as does a 50 ohm terminator	14:12
neuro	popey: i have tons of the things	14:13
neuro	and stupid sized sparcstation dimms	14:13
=== emmy is now known as Guest15561
SuperMatt	man, I feel like I must be doing something wrong with isc-dhcp-server6	14:39
SuperMatt	my clients will only get a ipv6 address if I manually run dhclient -6	14:40
SuperMatt	if I use network managler, it just doesn't pick up an address (hell, it doesn't even seem to talk to the server)	14:40
Azelphur	decided to be adventurous and move onto Ubuntu 13.10 \o/	14:41
SuperMatt	good luck!	14:42
Azelphur	yea, already having some fun lol	14:42
Azelphur	open terminal on second X screen? -> kill all other terminals and child applications.	14:42
Azelphur	that seems to be an issue with xfce-terminal though, none of the others do it shrug	14:43
SuperMatt	ok, so it seems that network manager and ipv6 dhcp is borked somehow	14:45
SuperMatt	I'll check for any bugs	14:45
SuperMatt	great, I'm seeing the same issue in fedora 19 too	14:51
neuro	maybe a problem with the dhcpd then?	14:53
SuperMatt	I don't know	14:54
=== alan_g is now known as alan_g\|tea
=== alan_g\|tea is now known as alan_g
popey	Azelphur: did you say you have a usb sound card?	15:41
* MartijnVdS has one		15:41
MartijnVdS	a _good_ one	15:41
popey	oh, just remembered i have a usb headset which is "quite good"	15:42
popey	better than the sound card in this lappy	15:42
* popey tries		15:42
MartijnVdS	xonar u3	15:42
popey	\o/ much betterer	15:44
MartijnVdS	yay	15:45
bigcalm	Is this a new bit of text in git? "Already up-to-date. Yeeah!"	15:49
bigcalm	I'm not sure I've seen it say "Yeeah!" before	15:49
AlanBell	do you have to read it with an Austin Powers voice?	15:56
MartijnVdS	it's probably a reference to that sunglasses meme?	15:57
MartijnVdS	from some kind of US tv show?	15:57
* MartijnVdS does't follow these things		15:57
BigRedS	I do worry when software I use starts making cultural references that I don't get	16:05
bigcalm	Makes you feel old?	16:06
MartijnVdS	software should stay out of the meme business	16:06
MartijnVdS	one apt-get moo is enough	16:06
=== msm is now known as Guest30994
brobostigon	how do i use pastebinit again to pastebin the output of a command?	16:11
MartijnVdS	command \| pastebin	16:11
MartijnVdS	?	16:11
brobostigon	thank you MartijnVdS	16:11
=== naderp is now known as oberlus
=== naderp is now known as oberlus
=== alan_g is now known as alan_g\|EOD
=== schwuk is now known as schwuk_away
Azelphur	popey: I had one a long while ago, use a usb headset at the moment	17:49
directhex	steamsale? steamsale!	17:59
MartijnVdS	click	18:00
MartijnVdS	I silently repeat phrases to myself when i think i may have said something odd, when i do this i also mouth the words as i say them to myself	18:01
MartijnVdS	uh wahat	18:01
MartijnVdS	The Steam Store is experiencing some heavy load right now. Please try again later.	18:01
* MartijnVdS kills his pastebuffer.		18:01
Azelphur	Has anyone noticed in Ubuntu 13.10 ccsm settings aren't saved?	18:17
Azelphur	(P.S. I wish Canonical would stop breaking compiz)	18:18
MartijnVdS	Azelphur: happens all the time, since 11.10	18:29
MartijnVdS	Azelphur: same for all unity settings	18:29
Azelphur	MartijnVdS: weird, didn't happen to me on 12.10	18:29
MartijnVdS	I have to re-set sloppy focus, auto-raise and several other settings ever other reboot or so	18:30
Azelphur	fun	18:30
MartijnVdS	there used to be a bug about it	18:31
MartijnVdS	but I can't find it now	18:31
MartijnVdS	https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/compiz/+bug/1063617	18:32
lubotu3	Ubuntu bug 1063617 in Compiz 0.9.9 "1:0.9.8+bzr3319-0ubuntu1 regression: keeps setting gsettings keys to wrong values" [High,Fix committed]	18:32
=== RadiumCat is now known as StrontiumCat
knightwise	hey everyone	18:44
MartijnVdS	\o knightwise	18:44
knightwise	hey MartijnVdS how are you tonight	18:44
MartijnVdS	knightwise: a bit on the bored side, but fine :)	18:45
MartijnVdS	knightwise: wrote this earlier this week: http://blog.vandestreek.net/2013/07/playing-with-wpa2-enterprise-using.html	18:45
knightwise	I'm fighting the demons of iTunes and their proprietary music databases	18:45
MartijnVdS	poor you	18:45
MartijnVdS	stop buying Apple stuff then ;)	18:45
knightwise	managed to make a full export of my itunes library (based on my playlist structure)	18:46
knightwise	now trying to drag them into owncloud to see if I can access them via the browser	18:46
MartijnVdS	knightwise: have you tried http://www.vandestreek-bier.nl/ yet? :)	18:48
knightwise	cool	18:48
knightwise	but i don't drink beer unfortunately	18:49
MartijnVdS	knightwise: you must know someone who does though	18:49
MartijnVdS	knightwise: being from Belgium	18:49
knightwise	true	18:53
knightwise	ps : question	18:53
knightwise	whats wrong with the sources line for 12.04 on this page : http://software.opensuse.org/download/package?project=isv:ownCloud:community&package=owncloud	18:53
knightwise	echo 'deb http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/isv:ownCloud:community/xUbuntu_12.04/ /' >> /etc/apt/sources.list.d/owncloud.list	18:53
knightwise	it says "mallformed url" when i add it to the files	18:54
MartijnVdS	the extra ":" bits?	18:55
=== StrontiumCat is now known as RadiumCat
MartijnVdS	knightwise: try using %3a	18:55
diddledan	oddness. on bootup my options for the igb module aren't applied when the kernel loads it. ("options igb max_vfs=7" in /etc/modprobe.d/igb.conf) but removing the module and reinserting it does correctly reference the option	19:29
=== popey_ is now known as popey
diddledan	my google foo is failing me	19:38
Darael	diddledan: Something to do with the initrd? (I'm guessing blind here, but I can't see how "sudo update-initramfs -u" could hurt, and it might somehow be part of it (although I'm not sure how...))	19:40
diddledan	it might be cached in the initramfs, I guess	19:41
Darael	That's what I was thinking. Seems a bit odd, but maybe worth a try, no?	19:42
diddledan	ok, reboobing	19:42
diddledan	thank god I've got a second puter :-p	19:43
diddledan	(and a third, and a fourth, but that's by-the-by :-p)	19:43
diddledan	yup, it was the initrd	19:44
diddledan	it works fine now	19:44
diddledan	well thinked	19:44
Darael	Shiny. Glad it worked.	19:44
Darael	O'course, that means it would've "magically" fixed itself upon the next kernel update anyway :-þ	19:45
diddledan	initrds are a black art to me these days now they're all automated. I remember building my own custom jobbies for Gentoo netboot back in the day, but modern stuff eludes me	19:45
=== Monotoko is now known as Guest90291
diddledan	I think I'm gradually turning into a fuddy-duddy	19:47
diddledan	soon I'll be complaining that kids don't know what they've missed by growing up now rather than in the 90s	19:48
diddledan	remember snowy TV reception? kids today don't even understand that such a thing existed	19:49
diddledan	for kids today, tv is either working or broken. they have no concept of partial reception	19:49
=== _Dave2_ is now known as Dave2
Azelphur	Is the software center broken in 13.10 atm?	19:56
MartijnVdS	diddledan: FM radio still works like that	19:57
MartijnVdS	diddledan: AM radio if you want to demonstrate easily :)	19:57
diddledan	:-)	19:59
diddledan	true	20:00
Azelphur	Is there any way to tell APT to install old quantal packages from a repo, until the newer packages are available?	20:34
MattJ	Add quantal's repos to sources.list?	20:39
MattJ	it will just use the newer ones	20:39
* SuperMatt has two projects on the go right now		20:47
Azelphur	MattJ: but, there are no newer ones, that's the point	20:48
SuperMatt	1) reinstall the laptop with saucy and btrfs (so I can finally get some exposure to it)	20:48
Azelphur	it's a third party repos that has no packages newer than quantal, and I'm on 13.10	20:48
SuperMatt	and 2) reorganise the data on my disks so they're less likely to die if something goes wrong	20:48
directhex	Azelphur, apt doesn't use distro-specific packages, it uses whatever is configured in sources.list	20:48
SuperMatt	s/die/lose all the data	20:48
directhex	Azelphur, assuming the dependencies resolve, it;'s fine to have a quantal ppa in post-quantal	20:48
Azelphur	ah	20:48
Azelphur	yep, this creates a packaging nightmare :P	20:50
Azelphur	looks like canonical renamed libudev0 to libudev1, it's breaking lots of things :(	20:50
MattJ	Right, that's where you hit problems :)	20:51
Azelphur	hehe	20:51
SuperMatt	chrome seems to have been bitten by it	20:51
diddledan	Azelphur: are you running your day-to-day activities on 13.10? i.e. is it stable enough for those that need some semblance of normality?	20:53
Azelphur	diddledan: I'm trying to, only been using it for a day so far	20:53
diddledan	ok	20:53
Azelphur	bumped into a few bugs, but doing ok, managed to work around most of it	20:53
diddledan	we're half-way through the dev-cycle now?	20:53
* diddledan googles the timeline		20:54
SuperMatt	and what a great cycle it has been so far	20:54
diddledan	saucy sausage? :-p	20:54
SuperMatt	I'm not ready to go saucy everywhere yet, but my lappy has been running it for a while now	20:54
SuperMatt	I'm not going to put mir on mine until it lands sans ppa though	20:55
SuperMatt	I do like a modicum of stability	20:55
Azelphur	wait, is 13.10 mir?	20:55
Azelphur	well, I'm using xubuntu 13.10, so probably not :P	20:55
SuperMatt	it will have mir, yes	20:55
Azelphur	yea, I have a feeling xubuntu won't adopt that.	20:55
SuperMatt	xfce will happily run on top of xmir	20:55
SuperMatt	probably not	20:55
Azelphur	SuperMatt: what about high performance apps?	20:55
Azelphur	like games	20:56
SuperMatt	I don't know about that right now	20:56
SuperMatt	I haven't done my own investigating yet	20:56
Azelphur	If they break games, I loose all faith in canonical, haha	20:56
SuperMatt	well, xmir should be able to run games	20:56
Azelphur	spend ages working to get big companies to seriously adopt Linux -> steam finally jumps on board -> break steam	20:56
Azelphur	:P	20:56
Azelphur	yea, hopefully :)	20:56
SuperMatt	might see a reduction in fps though	20:57
SuperMatt	who knows	20:57
SuperMatt	I certainly don't	20:57
Azelphur	compiz is gonna be interesting too.	20:58
SuperMatt	compiz will be gone	20:58
SuperMatt	but it's working fine in mir at the moment	20:58
SuperMatt	aint nobody got time for compiz	20:58
SuperMatt	not no more, no how	20:58
Azelphur	haha	20:58
Azelphur	I'm all for a compiz / X replacement	20:58
Azelphur	I'll probably cling to them until it's ready for actual use though	20:58
MattJ	as long as it supports 54 monitors?	20:59
Azelphur	yup	20:59
diddledan	my main worry over replacing X is the network transparency	20:59
SuperMatt	what I really really really really hope for is that I can still bind the top left window to expose all apps	20:59
diddledan	losing**	20:59
MattJ	diddledan, nobody cares :(	20:59
SuperMatt	I think a lot of people care	20:59
SuperMatt	but I also think there are better ways of doing things like that	20:59
MattJ	Yes, we could use the cloud	21:00
diddledan	they seem to suggest that vnc is better. I fail to see it.	21:00
diddledan	I like my remote windows to integrate seamlessly	21:00
SuperMatt	it's a tricky one	21:00
diddledan	not appear inside a virtual desktop	21:00
SuperMatt	small apps certainly work well using X forwarding, but I've seen fewer and fewer apps that work with it these days	21:00
SuperMatt	at least, work well	21:01
Azelphur	yea, networked X is very slow	21:01
diddledan	firefox is one notable problem with X forwarding - run firefox remotely and you end up spawning a local binary	21:01
Azelphur	VNC is very slow too	21:01
Azelphur	but stuff like teamviewer (I know, horrible proprietary) is very fast	21:01
Azelphur	I wish we had something open source that could keep up with tv :)	21:01
SuperMatt	I've heard that some of the technical apects of X forwarding just don't match the needs of today	21:02
SuperMatt	I can't for the life of me remember what they are though	21:02
Azelphur	no doubt, X is like 30+ years old now	21:02
SuperMatt	I think it has something to do with the traffic being sent back and forth, and that there's simply too much of it with modern day apps	21:02
SuperMatt	it's a good time to be a linux enthusiast, that's for sure	21:04
SuperMatt	I was getting worried that everything was going to become stable!	21:04
SuperMatt	thank glob for all these changes	21:04
Azelphur	haha	21:05
=== emmy is now known as Guest88616
=== schwukz is now known as schwukz_away
=== Hornet- is now known as Hornet
diddledan	mythtv rocks most socks	21:48
diddledan	though only when frontended by xbmc	21:48
diddledan	or maybe I should use tvheadend?	21:48
Azelphur	diddledan: my parents are still running plain old myth, maybe I should move them over to XBMC	21:49
diddledan	now that you can buy the mpeg2 codec for the raspi, it makes a sweet frontend	21:50
Azelphur	hehe	21:50
shauno_	I was a bit bummed by xbmc on the pi. it didn't seem to be quite enough to do most menu transitions	21:58
diddledan	yeah, the menu transitions are a bit sluggish, but video is fine	21:58
ali1234	SuperMatt: X defines drawing primitives like lines and rectangles which compress very well due to being vector based	22:00
ali1234	the problem is that nothing uses them any more	22:00
ali1234	Qt and Gtk just request buffers from the server and then draw into them directly	22:00
ali1234	when remoting that just has to be compressed and sent as-is	22:00
ali1234	removing remoting from the newer stacks doesn't fix this problem at all, it just makes it someone else's problem	22:01
ali1234	even though X is really bad at remoting these days, it is still better than anything else. you only have to compare with VNC to see why: VNC is really laggy and sometimes does not update at all. this is because VNC can't see which areas X is repainting so it either has to send the entire screen (probably as a really blurry JPEG) or try to compare successive frames and send the difference (which is really slow). it can't tell software not to use overlay	22:06
ali1234	even if X has to send compressed bitmaps, it can still optimize this by knowing exactly which parts of which windows have been redrawn without doing any extra work, and it can tell clients which features like overlays are available for use.	22:08
ali1234	Azelphur: i can X host mplayer playing SD content over 100mbit or HD over 1000mbit ethernet. can't do that with VNC, or anything else i have ever tried. sound is a problem though :P	22:10
Azelphur	ah, that's cool	22:10
ali1234	but if you want to stream TV, just stream the raw transport	22:11
ali1234	this is pretty much guaranteed to be the best way to do it	22:11
Azelphur	but then, fairly not useful for anything	22:11
ali1234	why not?	22:11
ali1234	mplayer and vlc can both play this	22:11
Azelphur	if you're gonna stream video, you're gonna do it an easier way, like sftp	22:11
ali1234	i would be highly surprised if xbmc could not	22:11
ali1234	sftp? for a stream? wuuuut?	22:12
Azelphur	why not? I always do it	22:12
ali1234	because it makes no sense	22:12
Azelphur	just sftp://user@blah in nautilus, double click file, done	22:12
ali1234	it's a stream	22:12
ali1234	it's not a file	22:12
ali1234	it has no beginning and no end	22:12
Azelphur	oh, ok then	22:12
ali1234	you connect, you get mpeg packets	22:13
ali1234	this is how IPTV works	22:13
Azelphur	fun :)	22:13
ali1234	DVB is practically IPTV anyway	22:13
ali1234	with 6 tuners and the right software you can have everyone on your network watching every channel simultaneously and not need more than about 300mbits of bandwidth	22:14
ali1234	regardless of how large your network is	22:14
Azelphur	sweet :o	22:15
ali1234	assuming all of it supports broadcast packets	22:15
diddledan	or multicast	22:15
ali1234	and also no need to every reencode anything	22:15
Azelphur	ali1234: myself I just have XBMC hooked up to NFS	22:15
ali1234	sorry yeah multicast is what i meant :)	22:15
diddledan	I've yet to play with multicast	22:17
diddledan	I have no idea how it works	22:17
ali1234	it's fun	22:17
diddledan	one thing mythtv is crap at is channel numbering	22:18
ali1234	yeah really	22:18
ali1234	i hate retuning because it always messes it all up	22:18
diddledan	it's put 5* in slot 2	22:20
diddledan	5USA in 4	22:20
diddledan	5+1 in 5	22:20
diddledan	QVC in 6	22:20
diddledan	it's fscked	22:20
diddledan	hmm, has my washing machine finished? I don't hear it anymore	22:21
diddledan	...	22:22
diddledan	is there a simple way of getting mythtv to reorder the channels per their standard numbers?	22:23
Azelphur	diddledan: not last I checked.	22:27
ali1234	diddledan: there is but i forgot what it is	22:56
ali1234	diddledan: there's also a hard way where you write a script that fixes the database directly, which is my preferred method of wrangling mythtv	22:57
Azelphur	http://imgur.com/a/Z7VWc theres a dude selling these on #bitcoin-otc, awesome.	23:19
Azelphur	folks who have shops here, do it. xD	23:19
ali1234	neon seriously?	23:43
ali1234	why not LED?	23:43
* Azelphur shrugs		23:54
ali1234	does anyone here actually have a shop?	23:54
Azelphur	I'd be surprised if there isn't at least one computer shop person in here	23:55
ali1234	i don't recall anyone ever mentioning such a thing...	23:56
ali1234	lots of consultants and sysadmins but no physical shops	23:56
Azelphur	ali1234: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/3832397/Photos/2013/Jun/2013-07-11-132206.jpg my latest crazy idea, btw :)	23:56
Azelphur	USB battery, induction charger, gonna put the induction charger behind the pocket in my coat, insert phone into pocket, phone charges.	23:57
ali1234	what is it?	23:57
ali1234	hahaha	23:57
ali1234	tha's genius	23:57
Azelphur	ty :D	23:57
ali1234	patent it immediately	23:57
Azelphur	hahaha	23:57
ali1234	design a way to weave the charger into the fabric of the pocket	23:57
Azelphur	yea I haven't actually seen anybody trying this before, but it serously looks like it'll work	23:57
Azelphur	gonna get some magnetic tape tomorrow to put on the charger	23:58
Azelphur	then I'm hoping the phone will sorta clamp onto it and stay put	23:58
ali1234	if you make the whole pocket be a coil then you don't even need magnets	23:59
Azelphur	funky	23:59

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