=== alpacaherder is now known as skellat [07:17] pleia2: glad to hear it :p [08:34] hi everyone (and knome), i don't think i'll be able to make the meeting today [08:34] kinda a bad time for me [08:34] (still possible that i do, just wanted to let you guys know in advance) [08:45] thanks [09:46] For the meeting, I'm going to try to connect with my phone or something. The owners of my company are going to be in today, so no laptop in the office [09:55] lol [10:16] cursed owners :P [10:33] heh. [11:47] bbl [14:51] hi ToZ [14:52] Hi elfy [14:56] * pleia2 yawns [14:56] morning [14:56] morning pleia2 [14:56] hello! [14:56] 4 minutes [14:57] morning folks :) [14:57] hi bluesabre_work [14:57] \o [14:57] o/ [14:57] \o/ [14:57] hey both of skellat's arms [14:58] Getting warmed up [14:58] yup [14:58] i dont know how longer my modem will stay connected so ill INFO now [14:58] * knome just put the coffee maker on [14:58] hi jono :) [14:58] hey jono! [14:58] * skellat checks to see his decaf tea mug to see if it is optimally filled [14:58] hey knome :-) [15:00] skellat: they make decaf tea - I am appalled :| [15:00] elfy: I can't have caffeine [15:00] #startmeeting Xubuntu community meeting [15:00] Meeting started Thu Jul 11 15:00:20 2013 UTC. The chair is knome. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology. [15:00] Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired [15:00] #chair elfy pleia2 [15:00] Current chairs: elfy knome pleia2 [15:00] micahg-work: ping [15:00] hey everyone :-) [15:00] hello :) [15:00] Good morning jono [15:00] o/ [15:00] since we have jono as a guest here today, and he has a tight schedule i'm sure, let's go ahead with the mir discussion right away [15:01] #topic Mir, XMir, X, and stuff (with Jono Bacon) [15:01] sounds good to me [15:01] thanks knome :-) [15:01] so I have been reaching out to each of the flavors to discuss Mir [15:01] and to discuss their plans for 13.10 and 14.04 [15:02] much of the discussions so far has been the flavors asking technical questions about Mir and what is involved in integrating it [15:03] so I just wanted to reach out to you folks to see what Xubuntu's perspective is, and if there is any support and guidance I can help with, or the Mir team can help with [15:03] jono: these discussions documented anywhere ? [15:03] elfy, no, they have been on phone calls [15:03] i suppose the first question has to be: what options do we have and which of those are more or less "canonical-supported" [15:04] knome, good question [15:04] so these are the options I think: [15:04] for 13.10: [15:04] * XMir + Mir - this will been you can run XFCE without any changes - it will run just like normal on the XMir compatibility layer [15:05] XMir is currently seeing a wealth of performance improvements and will match the speed of X in 13.10 [15:05] XMir + Mir will be fully supported by Canonical and will be our primary display server stack [15:06] also, XMir is a very thin layer so it should not introduce any bugs into Xubuntu, and if you do see a bug, it will be so obvious it is XMir [15:06] * Use the regular X stack - Canonical will not be maintaining a regular X stack, the X we will maintain will be XMir + Mir [15:06] for 14.04: [15:06] * XMir + Mir - again, you can ship XFCE just like normal using our X compatibility layer [15:07] jono, I thought for 13.10 Canonical would maintain the X stack as a fallback for those drivers that aren't supported by XMir [15:07] * Use the regular X stack - again, Canonical will not be supporting X in 14.04, and I suspect this will degrade as the five year support period progresses [15:08] * XFCE using Mir - another option, and one which we would like to encourage upstreams with, is to build a Mir backend for the desktop [15:09] our upstream is a smaller team than we are, I think getting Xfce to write for Mir is highly unlikely [15:09] micahg-work, yes, so if a driver cannot work with Mir (at the moment, proprietary drivers) it will fallback to X [15:09] +1 for micahg-work's and pleia2's comments [15:09] highly [15:09] jono, as we're not even sure if we're shipping Xfce 4.12 as it's not released, having Mir as a backend for Xfce in the 14.04 timeframe is very unlikely [15:09] (they don't even have Waylan plans right now) [15:09] micahg-work, so we will maintain the fallback [15:09] Wayland [15:09] pleia2, I can understand that concern [15:09] I also have concern that we're halfway through the cycle and not only is xmir not in the repos, but when Unit193, skellat and I tested it, only skellat was actually able to get it to run [15:10] I also tested it with no luck [15:10] When I had that up the experience was clearly sub-optimal [15:10] pleia2, XMir should land in the next two weeks, and you can test XFCE with Xmir today using the PPA in the interim [15:10] We have users, not test subjects [15:10] jono, so should we interpret that as you will or will not maintain X in 13.03? [15:10] jono: we tried to use the PPA, it fails [15:11] In theory you can test it, the one from the PPA just crashed at startup, on all 3 computers I tried. [15:11] knome, to be clearer, our maintained X stack will be XMir + Mir, not desktops using X directly [15:11] yeah, all mine fail back to xorg [15:11] pleia2, when did you try it? [15:11] jono: last night [15:11] pleia2, ahhh, I thought that was fixed [15:11] there was an issue in the last few days [15:11] I got it to boot last night on a System76 Starling netbook but the UI experience was suboptimal with two cursors barely tracking each other correctly [15:11] jono, why for 13.10 is the X stack support being dropped since it's still the fallback? [15:11] pleia2, I will ensure the Mir team look into that [15:12] skellat, the two cursor thing is temporary - the second cursor just shows you are in Mir [15:12] skellat, that will be removed soon and a watermark used [15:12] jono: They shouldn't be **both** moving like a bad VirtualBox session though [15:12] skellat, it is *temporary* :-) [15:12] skellat, it is a poor man's watermark :-) [15:12] haha [15:13] micahg-work, X is not dropped, it will be just maintained to support XMir [15:13] jono, is there a mailing list or other output where the mir-related news are updated (and mir-devel isn't what i'm looking for, that's too high traffic) [15:13] micahg-work, I think a Mir engineer can provide a better response on this question on the details, I will note that down [15:13] knome, you raise a great question [15:14] jono, right, I get the X stack through XMir is supported, I'm just not sure why straight X support would be dropped for 13.10 being that it's the fallback (I understand for 14.04) [15:14] knome, so in terms of a list, we don't have anything for just updates, but I have been thinking about providing weekly flavor updates of Mir progress, would that be useful? [15:14] micahg-work, I will check with the Mir team with what the difference is [15:14] jono, that sounds fair. if it's doable, just subscribe our developer mailing list for that mailing. [15:14] knome, will do, thanks for the note [15:14] we do have the weekly video update, but I understand that that is not the same [15:15] nope [15:15] so it sounds like upstream are currently focusing on X, is that right? [15:15] From what I've seen, Mir/XMir isn't even planning on getting virtual support until August, that's pretty close to release date (And FF?)... [15:15] unfortunately we're all pretty busy, it's impossible for most of us to take an hour out of our week to watch a video [15:16] Unit193, virtual support? [15:16] xfce upstream yes [15:16] jono, they have pretty much only one active contributor, so they aren't really "focusing" on any display server... [15:16] jono: vmware, virtualbox. [15:16] scanning IRC logs and similar is much faster and easier [15:16] knome, gotcha [15:16] pleia2, or a good old email [15:16] or at least having a summary emailed somewhere so we know if portions of the video are worth our time [15:16] A late drop toward Feature Freeze has us worried that there would be a need to scramble in case we find that we feel XMir is not in a condition we feel comfortable shipping to users. [15:16] skellat: +1 [15:16] knome, so in terms of Xubuntu, upstream can continue to ship an X display server in 14.04 [15:16] We want our users to have a finished product instead of a work in progress. [15:16] with XMir [15:17] Unit193, I haven't tested it in a VM, I have heard mixed reports of whether it works [15:17] Unit193, but I think you face that issue with Wayland too [15:17] It doesn't in vbox. [15:17] I don't with X. [15:17] i've heard it simply "does not work" with virtualbox. [15:17] jono: understand, wayland is not even on the horizon for us [15:17] I had a race condition with VirtualBox last night testing our test disc that locked up my machine totally [15:17] it's not on Xfce's roadmap at all [15:17] pleia2, I think an email summary might be easiest - we take notes for the video, I could send those [15:17] pleia2, right [15:18] so we're talking about sticking with xorg or using xmir, no mir or wayland in the discussion :) [15:18] ok, so it sounds like the primary focus here for you folks is being able to ship the current codebase, and test it with XMir [15:18] yeah, since most of our tests fail this is a very concerning situation [15:18] how far is xmir wrt xrandr support? [15:18] and xi? [15:18] whoever tested the PPA and it failed, could you email a summary of the problem? [15:19] Unit193, can you coordinate a... coordinated reply? :) [15:19] I recommend we kick off an email discussion thread about getting you folks up and running [15:19] my errors were the same as Unit193's [15:19] so it was pleia2 and Unit193 who tested it? [15:19] and bluesabre_work [15:19] and skellat and bluesabre_work [15:19] jono: And me [15:19] mine as well [15:19] I can look at trying it as well on one of the lappies [15:19] it worked for skellat though :) [15:19] pleia2: I had a couple different ones. [15:19] aye same [15:19] so it won't be virtual [15:19] i can probably chime in with some hardware at some point [15:19] (if badly needed) [15:20] ok, pleia2, would you mind starting an email thread with everyone involved and copying me in, and summarize the issues, I will then copy a Mir engineer in [15:20] pleia2: It bootstrapped but wasn't very functional. Not sure if that counts as worked. [15:20] this is also pretty temporary, it should land in the archive in the next few weeks, but at least in the interim you can do some testing [15:20] pleia2, please delegate to Unit193 and make sure he CC's xubuntu-devel ;) [15:20] skellat, define functional? [15:20] pleia2: if you can easily, add me. i will test with a machine i am wiping this week [15:21] #action Unit193 to collect details about Mir failures and email to -devel, jono and testers [15:21] ACTION: Unit193 to collect details about Mir failures and email to -devel, jono and testers [15:21] jono: Being able to boot without the kernel apparently going into a fault condition and nm-applet failing [15:21] I couldn't report flaws as it wouldn't connect to a network [15:21] skellat, that is outside of XMir [15:21] pleia2, you can also include me if you want. I can test it, also [15:21] skellat, that sounds like another issue [15:21] slickymaster: great! (and welcome :)) [15:21] well, the sooner it lands, the sooner we can evaluate, I think we'd like to take a decision about a week before feature freeze whether or not to go with XMir for 13.10 [15:21] today XFCE should work as expected with XMir, apart from the annoying extra cursor [15:21] jono: We'll park that then for later review [15:22] micahg-work: +1 [15:22] multi-monitor is also being worked on and will not expose any regressions in Mir [15:22] i definitely +1 micahg-work [15:22] * elfy does as well [15:22] jono, can you speak to mr_pouit's questions? they revolve around some base functionality [15:22] +1 micahg-work [15:22] micahg-work, agreed, rest assured the Mir team are peddling as fast as they can :-) [15:22] jono, d'oh, don't promise us that since it will have bugs (not to say i don't believe you don't fix them ;)) [15:22] micahg-work, which questions? [15:22] how far is xmir wrt xrandr support? [15:22] and xi? [15:22] 08:18:28 < mrpouit> how far is xmir wrt xrandr support? [15:22] how far is xmir wrt xrandr support? [15:22] and xi? [15:22] 08:18:45 < mrpouit> and xi? [15:22] haha [15:23] lol [15:23] flood alert! [15:23] knome, I am sure there will be some bugs, but we will get 'em fixed :-) [15:23] there are three trolls in the channel.. [15:23] mrpouit, are you referring specifically to multi-monitor? [15:23] jono, yes [15:23] mrpouit, so the goal for 13.10 is zero regressions [15:23] ffrom what I could find (basically, nothing, xmir isn't documented at all), there's no plan [15:23] some reading that will help: [15:23] * blueprint: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/client-1310-mir-multimonitor [15:24] * thread: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/mir-devel/2013-June/000235.html [15:24] mrpouit, if you have any further questions, mir-devel will be the best place to ask them, the engineers live there [15:24] so what's the situation with (X)Mir documentation in general? [15:25] knome, what kind of docs do you mean? [15:25] integrating it? [15:25] any documentation. [15:26] I think he means: "written documentation", without needing to listen to 1-hour long videos [15:26] ^ that [15:26] knome, docs currently live at http://unity.ubuntu.com/mir/ [15:26] the docs are improving each week too [15:26] mrpouit, do you have insight if that's even near what we'd need? [15:26] if you have any further questions about integration Mir, the Mir team can help answer them [15:27] I have asked dholbach to merge new docs into the core Mir docs [15:27] jono, i would say one of the things that really should start working is xmir with virtualbox [15:27] knome, I will note down to see where that sits right now [15:27] knome, yeah, planning for example. Also, what about ewmh, xrandr, xi? Will the support be identical to Xorg? [15:27] I am not sure how far along that is [15:27] mrpouit, yes [15:27] everything should be the same [15:28] mrpouit, but again, if you have specific questions, mir-devel is the best place to ask [15:28] "Should be", and "are" aren't always the same. ;) [15:28] since we have an already small testing team and many of the tests are run with virtualbox... you can see where you leave us if xmir isn't working with it [15:28] jono, is it the same kind of promise as "gtk2 indicators will be maintained during all the 12.04 lifetime", and they got dropped for 12.10? :) [15:28] Unit193, which is why I am recommending mrpouit posts to the list ;-) [15:28] knome, can you elaborate on the tests? automated tests? [15:29] jono, manual tests [15:29] mrpouit, I don't know about indicator support [15:29] knome, ahhh gotcha, well I will see if it runs in a VM, I have heard mixed reports tbh [15:29] jono, what are the additional memory requirements of using XMir as opposed to just X? [15:29] jono, i suppose he's asking that you keep what you promise - that wasn't the case with the gtk2 indicators [15:29] none of us have gotten it to work in virtualbox either [15:30] jono, as i said, i've heard that it simply doesn't work with virtualbox. [15:30] jono: basically, you're asking us to trust you on that, because right now to be able to take an informed decision we have to wait for the bits to land, and they land very very late, when it's too late to decide... [15:30] knome, XMir will definitely be supported as we need it to ship Unity :-) [15:30] mrpouit, I appreciate that, but the Mir team can only work so fast [15:30] mrpouit: What date would you call as the "point of no return" where we need to make decisions? [15:30] which is why I am recommending you test with the PPA - the issues with the PPA recently were a blip [15:31] we've all been testing with the ppa [15:31] And it's crashed over and over. [15:31] pleia2, if there are issues with the PPA I would encourage you to report them to mir-devel so the devs can get them fixed [15:31] they are very responsive [15:31] jono, it doesn't work with hardware or virtualbox. if you can't promise it won't work for 13.10, don't [15:32] knome, can't promise what will work? [15:32] jono, (x)mir for xubuntu [15:32] skellat, I'm not sure, this is probably a question for the testers too, but end of july would have been the limit (after that people go to vacation/will be less available). Maybe we can wait until feature freeze, but meh :P [15:32] knome, I can promise XMir will work in the archive [15:32] we have committed to that [15:32] again, we need it to ship Ubuntu itself [15:33] committed to it working with Ubuntu or everything? [15:33] elfy, +1 [15:33] committed to it being in a usable state for everything as well? [15:33] elfy, we are committed to XMir being the X stack that all flavors can use for their desktops too [15:34] jono, "we're rushing it into 13.10 so 14.04 can be rock-solid" (basically what Olli Ries wrote) isn't very reassuring [15:34] if we make XMir work for Ubuntu, it will work for flavors [15:34] mrpouit: +1 [15:34] I'm not worried about XMir being usable for Ubuntu by release, I'm worried about it being usable enough that we can make an informed decision in time [15:34] mrpouit, it is what it is - it is shipping in 13.10 [15:34] this isnt rushing it, this is shipping it [15:34] jono, that's not assuring for us [15:34] knome, what isn't reassuring? [15:34] jono, "it is what it is" << are you really here to listen to our concerns? [15:35] jono, "it will work for flavors", since flavors *aren't* the focus of (x)mir or canonical-paid developers [15:35] mrpouit, I believe I am being responsive to your concerns, but my point is: XMir is landing in 13.10, nothing we discuss here is going to change that - my goal here is to provide as much support as possible to our flavors [15:35] jono, and i understand that, but if you are going to make it work barely in time for ubuntu, why should we trust it's usable for us in 13.10? [15:35] knome, I think that is a fair point [15:35] jono: XMir isn't going to turn out like 100 scopes did then? [15:36] if you folks don't feel you have the time to use XMir between when XMir lands and when you ship, that is a reasonable concern [15:36] jono, that just doesn't make sense, even if mark put half of his money and dirty socks in the gamble. [15:36] but there isn't much we can do about it as we can't land Mir any earlier as they are currently working on integrating it [15:36] skellat, ? [15:36] skellat, what do you mean? [15:37] knome, I agree you folks need to make your own call about whether the timelines work for you [15:37] I agree that it is right [15:37] jono, that is exactly our concern; stuff landing too late so we don't really have time to make a decision and not even talking about testing and making it integrated for *us* [15:37] but the Mir team are working long day and nights to get it in ASAP [15:37] we understand that jono [15:37] but we're concerned about us at the moment [15:37] jono: 100 scopes was a major commitment for R that had to be delayed to S because it missed deadlines and wasn't in a ship-worthy state in time [15:38] #action Unit193 to rebuild the XMir ISO once sufficient changes land in the PPA. [15:38] ACTION: Unit193 to rebuild the XMir ISO once sufficient changes land in the PPA. [15:38] im sure their work will come to fruition well with ubuntu [15:38] skellat, yes, it was delayed because the quality wasnt there - we had received criticism about not shipping low quality code, so we were receptive to that [15:38] just to be clear, Xubuntu has always tracked Ubuntu's base and I think we want to here too, we just aren't keen on using our users as guinea pigs on a major portion of the desktop for 13.10 "so it's solid for 14.04" [15:38] jono, so will the it be the same story with mir? [15:39] we want to give xmir a chance :) it's just quite scary at the moment [15:39] if the release and QA team don't approve Mir, it won't go in [15:39] pleia2, I can understand that [15:39] so I think the conclusion here is the following: [15:39] * XMir is landing in the next few weeks [15:39] to be fair, how much control does the release and QA teams really have in that if mark wants it in? [15:40] * the PPA is available for testing, if there are bugs, please report them to mir-devel so we can fix them [15:40] knome: (zero control, even the release team can not object) [15:40] * the timescales are short, so the Xubuntu team should make an assessment if XMir is going to work [15:40] So, what was the outcome of contacting Kubuntu and Lubuntu anyway? [15:40] * the Mir team are here to provide help and guidance for Mir-related questions and issues [15:40] mrpouit, exactly my point, but i want to hear that from mr. bacon [15:41] knome, Mark doesn't override the release tean [15:41] teamn [15:41] jono, he does [15:41] yes he does. [15:41] I guess you're not subscribed to the -release bug reports [15:41] that is a seperate discussion, I disagree, but lets not derail this [15:41] jono, that is an important question. [15:41] mrpouit micahg-work: I guess we need to set a "point of no return" date for the ease of jono when we have to make a decision on XMir by whether we ship it or not [15:41] jono, it's a rarely used power, but it is used [15:41] jono: well it is part of the dicussion and an important part [15:41] skellat: +1 [15:42] jono, we don't want to ship a half-broken mir in xubuntu 13.03. [15:42] skellat, I think a week before feature freeze is good [15:42] knome: making up version numbers [15:42] i am [15:42] that gives us 6 weeks before final freeze [15:42] hehe [15:42] ok, so Mark does use his sabdfl power occassionally, I agree, and he might use it for Mir [15:42] but I don't see how that affects Xubuntu making a decision about XMir [15:42] micahg-work: sounds good to me [15:42] jono, so doesn't that effectively lead us to the fact that you really can't promise that mir works with 13.10 ? [15:42] jono, or the mir team, or anybody [15:43] knome, I am promising you based on the information I have [15:43] jono, and also, nobody still stopping it from getting in [15:43] jono, it doesn't, I think they were commenting to whether or not MIR will land is up to release + QA [15:43] I am not a fortune teller [15:43] sure, it could completely blow up if the Mir team get hit by a bus [15:43] :-) [15:43] my point is that based on the planning and trajectory, the Mir team is on track to deliver what they promise [15:43] jono, anyways, I think we'd like to have XMir, if it's ready enough for us, otherwise, we'll reevaluate for 14.04 [15:43] I am not denying that they may fail, there may be other issues at play [15:43] or if they simple can't deliver a stable product on time, which happens with tight schedules, even with the best engineers [15:44] knome, right [15:44] micahg-work mrpouit: Feature Freeze hits on August 29th. Do we want to call the "go/no-go" date as August 22nd then or what is your pleasure? [15:44] knome, as I say, I am basing everything on their planning and current progress [15:44] I am going to have to run in a second, folks [15:44] skellat, that's what I'm thinking meeting on Aug 22 [15:44] I am already really late for a call [15:44] I appreciate the feedback [15:45] jono, so basically, what you are saying is "i hope mir is ready for 13.10", not "i promise mir is ready for 13.10" ? [15:45] * skellat thanks jono for taking the time to join us [15:45] thanks jono [15:45] jono, thanks [15:45] jono: indeed, thanks [15:45] thank you jono :) [15:45] jono, thanks, it's much appreciated (though i'd still like to get a yes/no answer to my last question) [15:45] knome, to be clear: the Mir team are targetting 13.10, that is what the full team are working towards, my confidence in that is unimportant, you should assess it yourself [15:45] no one cares what I think anyway [15:46] jono, we do, that's why you were invited to this meeting. [15:46] knome, I would recommend you reach out to the Mir team directly if you need further assurance [15:46] okay [15:46] #agree Call the "go/no-go" date for xmir as August 22nd [15:46] knome, I appreciate that, but it seems like every point I have made has been treated with skepticism [15:46] which is fine, which is why I am suggesting you look into it yourself [15:46] jono, sure, but isn't that expected? :) [15:47] my goal here was only to open the discussion [15:47] you did that ;) [15:47] knome, tbh, not really [15:47] jono, anyway, thanks for joining us and have a nice day! [15:47] knome, but whatever :-) [15:47] I would venture to say if it's not landed at least by Aug 15, that we defer to 14.04 [15:47] pleia2: Shall we have a blog post to announce that in the spirit of openness? [15:47] skellat: I'm thinking dev mailing list post that we'll share [15:47] have a good day jono [15:47] thanks, all [15:47] +1 for pleia2 [15:48] our website is for communicating with users, and i don't think development related deadline dates fall into that category [15:48] (our blog is more user-facing, most think Mir is just a space station that landed in the ocean :)) [15:48] #info (11:47:17 AM) micahg-work: I would venture to say if it's not landed at least by Aug 15, that we defer to 14.04 [15:48] knome pleia2: Understood [15:48] thanks jono, have fun! [15:48] knome: mir is ready enough for me, works fine on my desktop. intel graphics. [15:48] xnox, with xfce? [15:48] xnox: intel is the key [15:49] right, that's probably a fair point [15:49] xnox, right, no binary drivers ATM [15:49] let's test it with non-intel [15:49] or non high end computers [15:49] knome: pleia2: there a lot of work done with binary driver providers, but it's a relationship canonical is managing and those binary blobs are not released yet. [15:49] i have some amd machine i can use, their a bit old to boot [15:49] alright, let's get this meteing back on track [15:49] right, once we have a decision, we can blog about it [15:49] we can discuss mir later [15:50] pleia2: agreed [15:50] xnox, so what you are basically saying that, as we know, "it's not working" :) [15:50] agreed as well. [15:50] should we discuss about the deadline date? [15:50] knome: what i am saying "it's actually being actively worked on" [15:50] or is everybody fine with august 22? [15:50] to get the binary blobs written & working. [15:50] xnox, yes, prefixed with "it's not working, but" [15:50] knome: I think we're all good with that [15:50] xnox, sorry, i'm not trying to be annoying. :) [15:51] +1 to date [15:51] xnox, i hear you, and i think it's great people are actually working on it and not just "planning" stuff [15:51] ok, that's it for the mir discussion1 [15:51] ! too [15:51] #topic Items carried on [15:51] #subtopic Open action items from previous meeting [15:51] #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings#Xubuntu.2BAC8-Meetings.2BAC8-Archive.2BAC8-Minutes.2BAC8-2013-06-13.Action_items.2C_by_person [15:51] knome: the binary blobs do work with mir on nexus devices, so existing ones can be made to work with it. (case in point tegra platform of nexus7 has nvidia binary blobs) [15:51] anything that's actually been done? [15:51] knome: I can report on the bugs team topic [15:52] knome: *some* binary drivers already work with mir ;-) [15:52] boo, slow wiki [15:52]