shawnbyes, I have made my own XML markup for a few apps I made - was going to use it as the way to organize my music library in a music app I want to create00:00
knomedocbook definitely is something you can get a grasp in just hours00:00
shawnbhtml - I play with jquery a lot as of lately00:00
knomegreat - then you basically know docbook apart from the tags... but that's fine, because we have examples in the documentation ready!00:00
shawnbawesome! =D00:00
knomewould you like to dig in some of that now, or would some other time suit you better?00:01
shawnbanother time would probably be better; I'm reading through the Xubuntu documentation and have had a couple of exams for work I took today00:01
knomesure :)00:01
knomewhen you have time for that, just join this channel again and shout for people to help you with things00:02
knomeboth me and pleia2 can give you a better look at the docs at least, and most of us are familiar enough with bzr to get you started with that00:02
shawnbthat's good to know; I'm reading through the offline documentation  seeing how fluid it is - I've done call center where I've worked with the most basic of people and I'm wondering what area you want to target in the documentation areas00:05
knomeas i said, we recently (for 12.10) did a complete rewrite00:06
knomeand by complete i mean... we pretty much touched almost everything00:06
knomeso what we have should be valid, but due to the same reason, it can definitely be lacking00:06
shawnbin the 13.04 I'm reading on chapter 3, it talks about the desktop have two panels top visible and bottom hidden when not in use. I personally can see a notation that states how to access the bottom panel just in case00:07
shawnbjust in the top clip note00:08
knomei'm not sure i follow00:08
knomeright; so you're proposing to add an information box?00:09
shawnbit is clarified how to access it in the heading Bottom Panel but under the main heading Desktop it just mentions it - I would personally00:09
knomeimprovements like that are most welcome00:10
shawnbsymlink has no definition in the  information box on the page; it just says you can symlink your backgrounds to /usr/share/xfce4/backdrops/ - better information on how to do that would be more helpful00:11
knome(as long as we don't start saying all things twice...)00:11
knomeyep, some of the things are definitely rough00:11
knomecorrect, but rough and lacking00:11
knomeotoh we might consider if we want to talk about "symlinking" in our end-user docs anyway00:12
shawnbI'll be honest I"ve used Ubuntu and Xubuntu and variants since 4.10 came out, but I'm learning new things in this documentation as well00:12
knomeit's endless - one learns new things every day00:12
shawnbyeah that's a bit more advanced; if a program were made to do it for you (I had one I made for that specific issue haha) users would be more inclined to use it00:13
shawnbor even a program to upload backgrounds to the Xubuntu system for access to all users00:13
knomeso probably just -"or symlink" there00:13
* Unit193 uses his name on IRC, mailing list, and LP.00:13
knomeUnit193, you're cheating.00:13
Unit193Am I?00:14
knomeyes you are sir.00:14
* knome sticks one in bluesabres nose01:39
bluesabretook forever to go through all the backlog01:39
bluesabreUnit193: I am around now, but my crash was identical to the one that pleia2 had pasted yesterday01:40
Unit193bluesabre: Yeah, I was looking for what card you had at the time.01:43
=== ochosi_ is now known as ochosi
bluesabreUnit193: NVIDIA Corporation G98M [Quadro NVS 160M] (rev a1)01:50
Unit193bluesabre: Coolio, already sent to the list, but could add it to the etherpad if it'll come in handy later.01:55
bluesabrethanks Unit19301:59
Unit193Heh, I was going to, but cool.01:59
ochosibluesabre: holy moly, gtk3.10 will deprecate stock items. one more thing to keep in mind when porting something...02:01
ochosi(in case anyone is interested in the not-too technical read: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1KCVPoYQBqMbDP11tHPpjW6uaEHrvLUmcDPqKAppCY8o/pub )02:05
skellatknome: Sorry, just saw that 3 hours later.  The music festival board meeting that I was clerking tonight got interesting and I had to track down a band leader for us to talk to on speakerphone.  Your status.u.c explanation seems sensible to me.02:06
bluesabreochosi: yep, that sucks02:23
bluesabreand that means the standard is moving towards text-only buttons (though they can be packed however one chooses)02:23
Unit193Well, Gnome wasn't using it, so who cares. :P02:26
micahgskellat: where was that link?04:19
=== stephan is now known as steffie
=== steffie is now known as stephan
=== forestpi1kie is now known as forestpiskie
ochosibluesabre: yeah, i guess less icons to maintain for me ;)07:30
elfyhello mikodo 07:47
mikodoelfy, Have a good sleep?07:47
elfyI did thanks :)07:48
mikodoelfy, I am just going off to it myself. Thanks for the meeting tip again, I enjoyed it. It was a little hard to keep up, the re-read on the UF made it all clearer07:49
elfyirc can be if you're not used to it 07:49
elfyif you subscribe to the xub-dev m/l or even check the wiki you can see when there is a meeting and check later for the logs07:50
mikodoKinda scares me where Xubuntu will be having to go to with Mir looming for 14.04. I get that talking about it here is not optimum.07:51
elfywe 'chat' in #xubuntu-offtopic - not logged there07:52
elfyyou should pop by some time :)07:52
mikodoOh, OK! Thx. an G'nite.07:52
elfymr_pouit: hi - when you've got a few free minutes can you ping me please :)10:15
mrpouitelfy, ping10:16
mrpouithello there10:16
knomeLP merge 173120 done.14:46
knomemeeting minutes from yesterday are up at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings15:06
ochosiah cool15:07
jjfrv8knome, thanks for the merge. Re skellat's point, should I be updating the changelog when I do these proposals?15:25
skellatjjfrv8: Running dch -a before you commit then merge will add you easily to the changelog15:25
knomejjfrv8, if you're comfortable with it, go ahead; if not, i'll make sure i do that15:26
knome(done that with my push)15:26
jjfrv8That's a "devscripts" app that I have to install and then run that command before I do my local commit?15:27
knomeyup, running that before your commit would do it15:27
jjfrv8OK, I'll try that next time.15:28
knomethanks :)15:28
jjfrv8knome, will the 12.04 rewrite project have a formal kickoff.  There is no trunk for that yet, true?15:29
knomeyes, we will have to send some kind of call for that, and probably create a new branch15:29
knomejjfrv8, if you would like to get hands dirty with that already, i should talk with pleia2 today and get that done15:30
jjfrv8I'm working on the testcases right now but I just didn't want to miss out on the action with 12.04 :)15:31
knomeif i'll get ahold of pleia2 today, i can go ahead with the 12.04 SRU stuff15:32
knome(note how awesome i am in highlighting pleia2 again and again so she can't say she missed my messages?)15:33
bluesabrepleia2 ^15:41
knomebluesabre, why are you ^ing pleia2?15:41
bluesabreto help make sure she doesn't miss your messages :D15:42
knomebluesabre, oh pleia2?15:42
bluesabreyeah, pleia215:42
knomeright, that's why you were ^ing pleia2 15:42
bluesabreyup, thats the reason I was ^ing pleia215:42
knomebluesabre, good, i hope pleia2 doesn't miss that15:43
bluesabreI don't think pleia2 will15:43
knomeyeah, pleia2 usually doesn't miss stuff like that15:43
bluesabreindeed, pleia2 is usually pretty reliable about getting messages left for her15:44
knomethat might be one of the reasons her nick is pleia2, maybe the first version had worse reliability15:45
pleia2you all suck :)16:02
* elfy has a sad :(16:03
pleia2elfy: just kidding, only knome and bluesabre 16:03
pleia2knome: so the plan with 12.04 is to only review the docs for accuracy (not backport the entire 12.10 rewrite), I can put out the call to do that any time16:03
elfybet you can't do it last week ... 16:04
pleia2elfy: changed my mind, you suck too16:05
knomepleia2, uhm, wait...16:05
knomepleia2, we do want the new looks, don't we?16:05
pleia2knome: isn't that just css changes or something?16:05
knomethere was a bunch of other changes and cleanup with the new docs too16:06
knomeso tbh, i would rather go the backportish way...16:06
knome(we can merge the appropriate, deleted-for-12.10 stuff back in)16:06
pleia2ah, wow, ok16:07
knomeif you want, i can do a diff on the two branches16:07
pleia2I think the diff will be unusable16:07
pleia2it's too rewritten16:07
knomei was thinking to see the changes outside the actual content files16:07
pleia2ah ok16:08
pleia2we should probably help the doc writers out a bit by remembering what changed between 12.04 and 12.1016:08
pleia212.10 is when we dropped gimp and gnumeric, so we'll want people to add those pack (referencing 13.04 for that could do)16:09
knomewell that's the first task16:09
pleia2what else?16:09
knomedepends which way we want to go16:09
knomei would say the new docs are much much better in fluency and all other literal stuff too16:09
knomeit would be silly to use the old docs that tell the same things worse16:10
jjfrv8Lot's of stuff moved from System to Settings Manager16:10
knomethat's a relatively easy change16:10
knomejust edit the entities file16:10
pleia2I think we pretty much ignore the current 12.04 docs16:11
pleia2just tell them to look at 12.10 and remove/add as needed16:11
knomeso, should either16:11
pleia2the 12.04 docs aren't accurate either, so not so useful16:11
knome1) just overwrite the precise branch (which actually doesn't exist); or16:11
knome2) create a new branch and work with that until it's ready and then merge with the 12.04 branch?16:12
* pleia2 vote #116:12
knomethe problem is that it doesn't exist16:13
knomewe've build the precise docs off the natty branch16:13
knomeso what if i just created the precise branch and then we'd just go ahead and leave that as the precise branch, and not touch the natty (precise) branch?16:13
knomewould be easier to diff/look at the differences, since you can just pull two branches and their trunk/main state is what you work with16:14
knomeok, now i need to remind myself how to create a new branch16:14
knomedoes it make much sense if i base off the 12.04 docs from current or 12.10?16:15
jjfrv8I would think from 12.10 because, as you said, the whole style changed16:17
knome12.10 already has the new style16:17
jjfrv8That's what I mean.  We would use that style for 12.0416:17
knomeso what i'm wondering if there were more changes that made it more unlike 12.04, or if most of the changes between 12.10->now were mostly grammar fixes16:18
knomebecause i can't think of *too* many things we've documented change from 12.1016:18
jjfrv8Yeah, I think it's mostly menu locations and titles16:19
knomeok, then i'll just rebase from now16:20
knomewhich is what i actually did already :P16:20
knomethere we go16:31
knomepleia2, our website says "Janary" @ help/16:31
knomei'll go fix that and drop oneiric and lucid from the supported releases16:33
pleia2sometimes I make up months16:34
knomeit might have well been me that did that :P16:34
pleia2you too!16:34
knomeweren't you away on raring release time?16:34
pleia2yeah, honeymoon16:35
knomecan't make months up on honeymoon16:35
knomeisn't the series view wonderful?16:36
knomeonly four branches to maintain!16:36
pleia2it looks like we have our act together!16:36
knomeyup, looks16:37
knomepleia2, bzr branch lp:xubuntu-docs/natty-oneiric xubuntu-docs-precise16:38
knomeum, no16:38
knomeidiocy warning!16:38
knomepleia2, bzr branch lp:xubuntu-docs/precise16:38
knomepleia2, bzr branch lp:xubuntu-docs/precise xubuntu-docs-precise16:39
knome^ that one16:39
jjfrv8Gotta go. Will read the logs tonight for updates.16:39
knomejjfrv8, we'll send an email with important information. have fun!16:39
pleia2knome: the last one?16:40
knomeoh wait16:40
knometo get the old precise docs:16:40
knomebzr branch lp:xubuntu-docs/natty-oneiric xubuntu-docs-precise-old16:40
knometo get the new precise docs:16:41
knomebzr branch lp:xubuntu-docs/precise xubuntu-docs-precise16:41
knomesomebody more wise with packaging could tell us what we need to do with the changelog, btw...16:42
pleia2since we're doing an SRU, changelog with dates from the quantal cycle is ok16:43
knomeok, i'll let you handle that16:43
pleia2it's still early16:43
knomei just pushed the initial commit to make the docs say 12.0416:45
pleia2shall I draft a mail to the list?16:46
* pleia2 openetherpad16:46
knomeyes please16:46
knomeand paste the link so i can mess up16:46
=== torstehu_ is now known as torstehu
knomepleia2, i think the mail is pretty good.17:14
pleia2ok, I'll send it out17:15
elfylooks ok - just got it :)17:23
knomeok, i'm off for now17:33
knomewill be back later today17:33
Noskcajelfy, does the XFCE4 Window Manager test really need to have the lines "    <dt>Open Window Manager from Settings dialogue</dt>        <dd>Window Manager opens to Style tab, theme set to default</dd>"  in twice?21:21
Noskcajdammit elfy21:22
Unit193knome: http://paste.openstack.org/show/RkLw3EeQkVMhytGBflcv is a mock-up for the additional drivers tag, would look like: https://www.dropbox.com/s/leben28fa8ovgms/control.png (May need some changes, of course.)21:24
pleia2Noskcaj: that tone really isn't necessary here21:24
Noskcajpleia2, ok, it was a joke21:25
pleia2Noskcaj: noted, but we have a lot of new folks coming through here lately, we don't want to think that's how we interact with each other :)21:25
knomeUnit193: i'm most open for that patch21:27
knomewondering if we can snatch up a list of translations from some old jockey .desktop file21:27
Unit193knome: I whiped it up to confuse bluesabre real quick, sooo. :P21:28
knomei see, i see (well done)21:28
bluesabreconfused I was22:15
Unit193Oh, and next meeting isn't on the Fridge calendar, if you wanted it there...22:44
knomepleia2, 22:46
knomewould you update our calendars22:47
pleia2I updated ours, but not fridge22:48
pleia2I didn't know we were doing that, since we don't meet in -meeting22:48
knomei know the process isn't too painful, but it should be easier. :)22:48
pleia2the fridge meeting calendar is typically for scheduling time in #ubuntu-meeting22:48
knomeright, i was thinking we didn't do fridge before22:49
knomedo you think we should, or not?22:49
pleia2I don't think s22:49
knomeUnit193, ffuuu22:49
Unit193I've known other teams to do it, but not making anything out of nothing. :P   We don't link to our calendar, do we?22:50
knomenot too much at least22:50
pleia2knome: now now22:55
pleia2I was going to link it to our meetings page, but then I forgot or went to eat cookies or something22:56
knomemmm... cookies...22:56
* skellat remains unsure of what to make of this22:56
pleia2Unit193: other teams do it, then people look at the fridge and think they can't schedule their meeting, so then they complain to pleia2 that the need a -meeting-alt and then I have to open everything up on the calendar and say "no wait, don't worry, that meeting isn't in -meeting!"22:56
pleia2it's annoying and means I have more work :)22:56
skellatSo pleia2 has spoken, so shall it be?22:57
pleia2I've been slowly weaning people off doing that22:57
knomeit shouldn't be called the fridge calendar then, it should be called the #ubuntu-meeting calendar22:57
pleia2"This is the official Fridge Calendar. It is used for #ubuntu-meeting"22:57
Unit193pleia2: Sure, and I understand the annoyance, but that should be their problem (yes, I know it's not.  I'll shutup. :P )22:58
knomethe term fridge calendar is possibly misleading to people who have a short attention span.22:58
pleia2I don't even know what "fridge calendar" means22:58
knomewait, what were we talking about?22:58
Unit193I don't remember...22:58
Unit193pleia2: Fridge, it's where all the information goes.22:58
knomei suppose it's supposed to be an analogy of a calendar in your fridge that allows everybody in the household see shared/important events22:59
pleia2maybe in the 1950s22:59
knome*to see22:59
knomewe have one!22:59
pleia2I think an old person made fridge23:00
knomewell, not in the fridge, but... you know23:00
pleia2that's because your polar bear can't use a computer23:00
knomeor on the fridge door. :P23:00
pleia2still needs to know what's what23:00
knomeare you calling my wife a polar bear?23:00
skellatI have a blotter calendar hanging on a nail via a yarn triangle23:00
pleia2knome: no, the pet one you keep in the igloo23:00
knomemy wife marks her work shifts on the calendar. easy to check if you need the information and don't have devices at your hand23:01
knomeand no syncing worries23:01
knomeit's just there23:01
knomepleia2, ;)23:01
drcthe joys of the analog revolution23:01
Unit193So we going to have one of those creepy faces on the internet things?23:07
knomeyummy blueberry pie23:08
knomeanalog pie wins digital pie23:08
drcpie wins...period23:08
drctime to fill the pie-hole.23:09
knomeok, i'm off for today. more action tomorrow23:29
knomegood night!23:29
pleia2night knome 23:30
Unit193Am I supposed to bump anyone/thing about that desktop file? ;P23:31
ochosiUnit193: you could file a bugreport23:38

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