[00:00] yes, I have made my own XML markup for a few apps I made - was going to use it as the way to organize my music library in a music app I want to create [00:00] docbook definitely is something you can get a grasp in just hours [00:00] html - I play with jquery a lot as of lately [00:00] great - then you basically know docbook apart from the tags... but that's fine, because we have examples in the documentation ready! [00:00] awesome! =D [00:01] would you like to dig in some of that now, or would some other time suit you better? [00:01] another time would probably be better; I'm reading through the Xubuntu documentation and have had a couple of exams for work I took today [00:01] sure :) [00:02] when you have time for that, just join this channel again and shout for people to help you with things [00:02] both me and pleia2 can give you a better look at the docs at least, and most of us are familiar enough with bzr to get you started with that [00:05] that's good to know; I'm reading through the offline documentation seeing how fluid it is - I've done call center where I've worked with the most basic of people and I'm wondering what area you want to target in the documentation areas [00:06] as i said, we recently (for 12.10) did a complete rewrite [00:06] and by complete i mean... we pretty much touched almost everything [00:06] so what we have should be valid, but due to the same reason, it can definitely be lacking [00:07] in the 13.04 I'm reading on chapter 3, it talks about the desktop have two panels top visible and bottom hidden when not in use. I personally can see a notation that states how to access the bottom panel just in case [00:08] just in the top clip note [00:08] i'm not sure i follow [00:09] right; so you're proposing to add an information box? [00:09] it is clarified how to access it in the heading Bottom Panel but under the main heading Desktop it just mentions it - I would personally [00:10] sure [00:10] improvements like that are most welcome [00:11] symlink has no definition in the information box on the page; it just says you can symlink your backgrounds to /usr/share/xfce4/backdrops/ - better information on how to do that would be more helpful [00:11] (as long as we don't start saying all things twice...) [00:11] yep, some of the things are definitely rough [00:11] correct, but rough and lacking [00:12] otoh we might consider if we want to talk about "symlinking" in our end-user docs anyway [00:12] I'll be honest I"ve used Ubuntu and Xubuntu and variants since 4.10 came out, but I'm learning new things in this documentation as well [00:12] it's endless - one learns new things every day [00:13] yeah that's a bit more advanced; if a program were made to do it for you (I had one I made for that specific issue haha) users would be more inclined to use it [00:13] yup [00:13] or even a program to upload backgrounds to the Xubuntu system for access to all users [00:13] so probably just -"or symlink" there [00:13] * Unit193 uses his name on IRC, mailing list, and LP. [00:13] Unit193, you're cheating. [00:14] Am I? [00:14] yes you are sir. [01:38] stickers! [01:39] * knome sticks one in bluesabres nose [01:39] lol [01:39] took forever to go through all the backlog [01:40] sure [01:40] Unit193: I am around now, but my crash was identical to the one that pleia2 had pasted yesterday [01:43] bluesabre: Yeah, I was looking for what card you had at the time. === ochosi_ is now known as ochosi [01:50] Unit193: NVIDIA Corporation G98M [Quadro NVS 160M] (rev a1) [01:55] bluesabre: Coolio, already sent to the list, but could add it to the etherpad if it'll come in handy later. [01:59] added [01:59] thanks Unit193 [01:59] Heh, I was going to, but cool. [02:00] Thanks. [02:01] bluesabre: holy moly, gtk3.10 will deprecate stock items. one more thing to keep in mind when porting something... [02:05] (in case anyone is interested in the not-too technical read: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1KCVPoYQBqMbDP11tHPpjW6uaEHrvLUmcDPqKAppCY8o/pub ) [02:06] knome: Sorry, just saw that 3 hours later. The music festival board meeting that I was clerking tonight got interesting and I had to track down a band leader for us to talk to on speakerphone. Your status.u.c explanation seems sensible to me. [02:23] ochosi: yep, that sucks [02:23] and that means the standard is moving towards text-only buttons (though they can be packed however one chooses) [02:26] Well, Gnome wasn't using it, so who cares. :P [04:19] skellat: where was that link? === stephan is now known as steffie === steffie is now known as stephan === forestpi1kie is now known as forestpiskie [07:30] bluesabre: yeah, i guess less icons to maintain for me ;) [07:47] hello mikodo [07:47] elfy, Have a good sleep? [07:48] I did thanks :) [07:49] elfy, I am just going off to it myself. Thanks for the meeting tip again, I enjoyed it. It was a little hard to keep up, the re-read on the UF made it all clearer [07:49] irc can be if you're not used to it [07:50] if you subscribe to the xub-dev m/l or even check the wiki you can see when there is a meeting and check later for the logs [07:51] Kinda scares me where Xubuntu will be having to go to with Mir looming for 14.04. I get that talking about it here is not optimum. [07:52] we 'chat' in #xubuntu-offtopic - not logged there [07:52] you should pop by some time :) [07:52] Oh, OK! Thx. an G'nite. [10:15] mr_pouit: hi - when you've got a few free minutes can you ping me please :) [10:16] elfy, ping [10:16] hello there [14:46] LP merge 173120 done. [15:06] meeting minutes from yesterday are up at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings [15:07] ah cool [15:25] knome, thanks for the merge. Re skellat's point, should I be updating the changelog when I do these proposals? [15:25] jjfrv8: Running dch -a before you commit then merge will add you easily to the changelog [15:26] jjfrv8, if you're comfortable with it, go ahead; if not, i'll make sure i do that [15:26] (done that with my push) [15:27] That's a "devscripts" app that I have to install and then run that command before I do my local commit? [15:27] yup, running that before your commit would do it [15:28] OK, I'll try that next time. [15:28] thanks :) [15:29] knome, will the 12.04 rewrite project have a formal kickoff. There is no trunk for that yet, true? [15:29] yes, we will have to send some kind of call for that, and probably create a new branch [15:30] Alrighty [15:30] jjfrv8, if you would like to get hands dirty with that already, i should talk with pleia2 today and get that done [15:31] I'm working on the testcases right now but I just didn't want to miss out on the action with 12.04 :) [15:31] sure [15:32] if i'll get ahold of pleia2 today, i can go ahead with the 12.04 SRU stuff [15:33] (note how awesome i am in highlighting pleia2 again and again so she can't say she missed my messages?) [15:41] pleia2 ^ [15:41] bluesabre, why are you ^ing pleia2? [15:42] to help make sure she doesn't miss your messages :D [15:42] bluesabre, oh pleia2? [15:42] yeah, pleia2 [15:42] right, that's why you were ^ing pleia2 [15:42] lol [15:42] yup, thats the reason I was ^ing pleia2 [15:43] bluesabre, good, i hope pleia2 doesn't miss that [15:43] I don't think pleia2 will [15:43] yeah, pleia2 usually doesn't miss stuff like that [15:44] indeed, pleia2 is usually pretty reliable about getting messages left for her [15:45] that might be one of the reasons her nick is pleia2, maybe the first version had worse reliability [15:46] lol [16:02] you all suck :) [16:03] * elfy has a sad :( [16:03] elfy: just kidding, only knome and bluesabre [16:03] :p [16:03] knome: so the plan with 12.04 is to only review the docs for accuracy (not backport the entire 12.10 rewrite), I can put out the call to do that any time [16:04] bet you can't do it last week ... [16:05] elfy: changed my mind, you suck too [16:05] :P [16:05] :D [16:05] pleia2, uhm, wait... [16:05] pleia2, we do want the new looks, don't we? [16:05] knome: isn't that just css changes or something? [16:06] there was a bunch of other changes and cleanup with the new docs too [16:06] so tbh, i would rather go the backportish way... [16:06] (we can merge the appropriate, deleted-for-12.10 stuff back in) [16:07] ah, wow, ok [16:07] if you want, i can do a diff on the two branches [16:07] I think the diff will be unusable [16:07] it's too rewritten [16:07] lol [16:07] i was thinking to see the changes outside the actual content files [16:08] ah ok [16:08] we should probably help the doc writers out a bit by remembering what changed between 12.04 and 12.10 [16:09] 12.10 is when we dropped gimp and gnumeric, so we'll want people to add those pack (referencing 13.04 for that could do) [16:09] well that's the first task [16:09] s/pack/back [16:09] what else? [16:09] depends which way we want to go [16:09] i would say the new docs are much much better in fluency and all other literal stuff too [16:10] it would be silly to use the old docs that tell the same things worse [16:10] Lot's of stuff moved from System to Settings Manager [16:10] that's a relatively easy change [16:10] just edit the entities file [16:11] I think we pretty much ignore the current 12.04 docs [16:11] just tell them to look at 12.10 and remove/add as needed [16:11] so, should either [16:11] the 12.04 docs aren't accurate either, so not so useful [16:11] 1) just overwrite the precise branch (which actually doesn't exist); or [16:12] 2) create a new branch and work with that until it's ready and then merge with the 12.04 branch? [16:12] * pleia2 vote #1 [16:13] the problem is that it doesn't exist [16:13] we've build the precise docs off the natty branch [16:13] so what if i just created the precise branch and then we'd just go ahead and leave that as the precise branch, and not touch the natty (precise) branch? [16:14] yeah [16:14] would be easier to diff/look at the differences, since you can just pull two branches and their trunk/main state is what you work with [16:14] ok, now i need to remind myself how to create a new branch [16:15] :) [16:15] does it make much sense if i base off the 12.04 docs from current or 12.10? [16:17] I would think from 12.10 because, as you said, the whole style changed [16:17] 12.10 already has the new style [16:17] That's what I mean. We would use that style for 12.04 [16:18] so what i'm wondering if there were more changes that made it more unlike 12.04, or if most of the changes between 12.10->now were mostly grammar fixes [16:18] because i can't think of *too* many things we've documented change from 12.10 [16:19] Yeah, I think it's mostly menu locations and titles [16:20] ok, then i'll just rebase from now [16:20] which is what i actually did already :P [16:31] so, [16:31] https://launchpad.net/xubuntu-docs/precise [16:31] there we go [16:31] pleia2, our website says "Janary" @ help/ [16:33] i'll go fix that and drop oneiric and lucid from the supported releases [16:34] sometimes I make up months [16:34] it might have well been me that did that :P [16:34] you too! [16:34] weren't you away on raring release time? [16:35] yeah, honeymoon [16:35] exactly [16:35] can't make months up on honeymoon [16:36] https://launchpad.net/xubuntu-docs [16:36] isn't the series view wonderful? [16:36] only four branches to maintain! [16:36] it looks like we have our act together! [16:37] yup, looks [16:38] pleia2, bzr branch lp:xubuntu-docs/natty-oneiric xubuntu-docs-precise [16:38] um, no [16:38] fsst [16:38] idiocy warning! [16:38] pleia2, bzr branch lp:xubuntu-docs/precise [16:39] pleia2, bzr branch lp:xubuntu-docs/precise xubuntu-docs-precise [16:39] ^ that one [16:39] Gotta go. Will read the logs tonight for updates. [16:39] jjfrv8, we'll send an email with important information. have fun! [16:40] thx [16:40] knome: the last one? [16:40] oh wait [16:40] crap. [16:40] to get the old precise docs: [16:40] bzr branch lp:xubuntu-docs/natty-oneiric xubuntu-docs-precise-old [16:41] to get the new precise docs: [16:41] bzr branch lp:xubuntu-docs/precise xubuntu-docs-precise [16:42] somebody more wise with packaging could tell us what we need to do with the changelog, btw... [16:43] since we're doing an SRU, changelog with dates from the quantal cycle is ok [16:43] s/is/are [16:43] ENGLISH [16:43] haha [16:43] ok, i'll let you handle that [16:43] it's still early [16:43] ok [16:45] i just pushed the initial commit to make the docs say 12.04 [16:46] \o/ [16:46] shall I draft a mail to the list? [16:46] * pleia2 openetherpad [16:46] yes please [16:46] and paste the link so i can mess up [16:46] :P [16:47] http://etherpad.ubuntu.com/AOSmBvQEgu === torstehu_ is now known as torstehu [17:14] pleia2, i think the mail is pretty good. [17:15] ok, I'll send it out [17:23] looks ok - just got it :) [17:33] ok, i'm off for now [17:33] will be back later today [21:21] elfy, does the XFCE4 Window Manager test really need to have the lines "

Open Window Manager from Settings dialogue

Window Manager opens to Style tab, theme set to default

" in twice? [21:22] dammit elfy [21:24] knome: http://paste.openstack.org/show/RkLw3EeQkVMhytGBflcv is a mock-up for the additional drivers tag, would look like: https://www.dropbox.com/s/leben28fa8ovgms/control.png (May need some changes, of course.) [21:24] Noskcaj: that tone really isn't necessary here [21:25] pleia2, ok, it was a joke [21:25] Noskcaj: noted, but we have a lot of new folks coming through here lately, we don't want to think that's how we interact with each other :) [21:26] ok [21:27] Unit193: i'm most open for that patch [21:27] wondering if we can snatch up a list of translations from some old jockey .desktop file [21:28] knome: I whiped it up to confuse bluesabre real quick, sooo. :P [21:28] i see, i see (well done) [22:15] haha [22:15] confused I was [22:44] Oh, and next meeting isn't on the Fridge calendar, if you wanted it there... [22:46] pleia2, [22:47] knome [22:47] <3 [22:47] would you update our calendars [22:48] I updated ours, but not fridge [22:48] I didn't know we were doing that, since we don't meet in -meeting [22:48] i know the process isn't too painful, but it should be easier. :) [22:48] the fridge meeting calendar is typically for scheduling time in #ubuntu-meeting [22:49] right, i was thinking we didn't do fridge before [22:49] do you think we should, or not? [22:49] I don't think s [22:49] o [22:49] oki [22:49] Unit193, ffuuu [22:49] :3 [22:50] I've known other teams to do it, but not making anything out of nothing. :P We don't link to our calendar, do we? [22:50] not too much at least [22:55] knome: now now [22:56] wot? [22:56] I was going to link it to our meetings page, but then I forgot or went to eat cookies or something [22:56] mmm... cookies... [22:56] * skellat remains unsure of what to make of this [22:56] Unit193: other teams do it, then people look at the fridge and think they can't schedule their meeting, so then they complain to pleia2 that the need a -meeting-alt and then I have to open everything up on the calendar and say "no wait, don't worry, that meeting isn't in -meeting!" [22:56] it's annoying and means I have more work :) [22:56] lol [22:57] So pleia2 has spoken, so shall it be? [22:57] I've been slowly weaning people off doing that [22:57] it shouldn't be called the fridge calendar then, it should be called the #ubuntu-meeting calendar [22:57] "This is the official Fridge Calendar. It is used for #ubuntu-meeting" [22:58] pleia2: Sure, and I understand the annoyance, but that should be their problem (yes, I know it's not. I'll shutup. :P ) [22:58] the term fridge calendar is possibly misleading to people who have a short attention span. [22:58] I don't even know what "fridge calendar" means [22:58] wait, what were we talking about? [22:58] I don't remember... [22:58] http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars/fridge/ [22:58] pleia2: Fridge, it's where all the information goes. [22:59] i suppose it's supposed to be an analogy of a calendar in your fridge that allows everybody in the household see shared/important events [22:59] maybe in the 1950s [22:59] *to see [22:59] :) [22:59] we have one! [23:00] I think an old person made fridge [23:00] well, not in the fridge, but... you know [23:00] that's because your polar bear can't use a computer [23:00] or on the fridge door. :P [23:00] still needs to know what's what [23:00] are you calling my wife a polar bear? [23:00] hmm... [23:00] I have a blotter calendar hanging on a nail via a yarn triangle [23:00] knome: no, the pet one you keep in the igloo [23:01] my wife marks her work shifts on the calendar. easy to check if you need the information and don't have devices at your hand [23:01] and no syncing worries [23:01] it's just there [23:01] pleia2, ;) [23:01] the joys of the analog revolution [23:02] definitely [23:07] So we going to have one of those creepy faces on the internet things? [23:08] yummy blueberry pie [23:08] analog pie wins digital pie [23:08] pie wins...period [23:09] time to fill the pie-hole. [23:29] ok, i'm off for today. more action tomorrow [23:29] good night! [23:30] night knome [23:31] Am I supposed to bump anyone/thing about that desktop file? ;P [23:38] Unit193: you could file a bugreport