[07:12] <OvenWerks> Question, in an sudo application, is it least confusiong to the user to ask for authorization before startup or only after the user is asking for an action that requires upgrading authority?
[07:14] <OvenWerks> synaptic uses the first and the user managment app uses the second.
[07:15]  * OvenWerks is thinking out loud
[07:15] <Mish> AFAIK I've seen only synaptic do that
[07:16] <Mish> I mean the package management utilities that I use like deborphan ask only when it is required
[07:17] <OvenWerks> I am thinking  that the first is prefered unless there are actions that can be preformed that don't require permitions.
[07:17] <Mish> but I don't know if that's better or not
[07:17] <OvenWerks> This is for my studio meta installer
[07:17] <OvenWerks> The only safe option is exit :)
[07:19] <OvenWerks> I think it makes sense to just run the whole thing under pkexec
[07:22] <OvenWerks> Asking for a password right off informs the user they are doing system changes right away
[07:24] <OvenWerks> Anyway, thanks for the input. I am off to bed.
[09:32] <zequence> OvenWerks: depends on what the application does. If it's strictly for administration, and nothing for non admins stuff, then the whole app could be sudo
[14:56] <OvenWerks> zequence: that was what I finally figured out. In my case, the only non-admin selection is "cancel" which exits the program.
[15:06] <OvenWerks> zequence: Re: getting Jack etc. RT priv. When installing our audio meta (from a GUI) right now we need the user to be in the audio group. You are working on something better. should I include an option to put the user(s) in the audio group?
[15:09] <OvenWerks> next question :) do we want to allow removing metas? There are Alligators in these waters, removing the meta will not remove the applications it installed if it was installed from the ISO.
[15:13] <OvenWerks> This goes farther, even if we remove all the apps listed in the meta, the packages brought in as depends will not be removed. Also, some packages in one meta are dependants of other metas...
[15:15] <OvenWerks> Ok, forget that, I have talked myself out of allowing removale of metas.
[15:19] <OvenWerks> question 4) should there be an option to remove the generic kernel? Or at least the upgradability?
[15:25] <OvenWerks> Aside from all that, Kubuntu has set things up so that their GRUB entry actually shows "Kunubtu". I would like to use the same method in our settings package for us as well I think it is important to make sure the lowlatency kernel is always default even if a generic somehow gets installed. (via distro upgrade for example)
[15:25] <OvenWerks> Hi Mish
[15:25] <Mish> Hi OvenWerks
[15:32] <OvenWerks> Mish: I was hoping to have at least one release of ubuntustudio-menu as is because it is such a change from the last version. (from pre xfce days)
[15:33] <OvenWerks> but if all the icons are going in there we should at least start working on a mergable branch I would guess.
[15:33] <Mish> What is the deadline before testing starts?
[15:33] <Mish> I mean if there is one
[15:34] <Mish> I don't exactly know how the process works
[15:34] <OvenWerks> I am not sure, but I think we are opting in for beta 2
[15:35] <OvenWerks> As I have built and tested -menu as is, it is probably safe to make changes in icons though.
[15:36] <OvenWerks> Changing the names of icons, means editing all the *.directory files as well.
[15:36] <Mish> yeah
[15:38] <OvenWerks> I guess I should change the names first then you can branch for icon work.
[15:38] <OvenWerks> I am going to eat breakfast with my wife for a bit. Back later.
[15:44] <zequence> OvenWerks: the idea was that we make a -controls application to handle stuff like realtime privilege and audio group - it's a two part problem, and both need to be in place in order to get things right. But, since then, I realized it's better to solve the problem by setting a standard that exists everywhere, both Debian and Ubuntu, and in that way, we won't need to create a tool for it. Still, it might be interesting to tweak many opt
[15:45] <zequence> I made a -controls app all in python/gtk in the past, where one portion of it was bash and the gui thing you are using now (I forget the name)
[15:46] <zequence> so, I already did something quite similar to what you are doing now
[15:46] <zequence> or, I did that partly for the -controls I did
[15:46] <zequence> it didn't install workflows, but it was able to set realtime options, as well as install restricted extras
[15:47] <zequence> Mish: We have the chance to make changes easily until feature freeze
[15:48] <zequence> Mish: Testing is done continuously, and only after feature freeze do we do proper bug testing. The features should already be in place by then
[15:49] <zequence> Feature freeze is aug 22 https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/DevelopmentReleaseSchedule
[15:55] <Mish> ok cool thanks
[16:42] <OvenWerks> zequence: my thought was that the time to ensure RT was at the time jack/lowlatnecy was installed.
[16:43] <OvenWerks> certainly setting group should be a temporary thing that we hope see fixed "soon" (ish)
[16:44] <OvenWerks> This would not be a tool for tuning or turning these things on and off. Just setting things to what an ISO install would be.
[16:45] <OvenWerks> It occures to me we have two kinds of setting in our -settings pkg. DE settings and tweaks.
[16:45] <OvenWerks> should they be two packages?
[16:48] <OvenWerks> The reason I ask is because DE settings are part of xfce while the tweaks are part of audio really
[16:49] <OvenWerks> with another DE the tweaks on their own are worthwhile, but the DE settings could be a problem.
[16:53] <zequence> OvenWerks: If we need to have separate -settings packages, it would be best to separate DE specific stuff, yes
[16:53] <OvenWerks> I am thinking a -tweaks package
[16:54] <OvenWerks> zequence: ubuntustudio-meta-install ok for packagename/scriptname?
[16:55] <zequence> I'd just call it ubuntustudio-installer
[16:55] <OvenWerks> ok will do.
[16:56] <zequence> or, if only installing metas, ubuntustudio-meta-installer, but the former might be handier, if adding things to it
[16:57] <OvenWerks> yes There is a possibilty of using it to replace USC for our extras menu items so they are DE agnostic
[19:48] <OvenWerks> zequence: So much for that.... pkexec does not to forward the stuff needed for a GUI to work. So authentication will happen for the action instead.
[19:49] <OvenWerks> Good news is that all the user input stuff ends up being gui.
[19:52] <zequence> OvenWerks: What's pkexec?
[19:53] <OvenWerks> it is the only gui bassed sudo that seems to be in all flavours.
[19:53] <zequence> I solved it by doing apt-get install commands with the -y parameter, however, it's important to do an update too of course
[19:53] <zequence> ah
[19:53] <zequence> why not just make gksudo a dependency?
[19:53] <OvenWerks> kubuntu doesn't have gksudo
[19:54] <zequence> I mean to ubuntustudio-installer
[19:54] <OvenWerks> That pulls gtk libs into kubuntu
[19:54] <zequence> ah
[19:54] <OvenWerks> mind you I think all our metas do anyway.
[19:55] <zequence> yeah, probably, but still..
[19:55] <OvenWerks> but I wanted the installer to be very light weight
[19:55] <zequence> Kubuntu uses pkexec for the same sort of stuff?
[19:55] <OvenWerks> yes
[19:55] <OvenWerks> it is part of the mini.iso image I think
[19:55] <zequence> well, as long as it works, I guess
[19:56] <OvenWerks> it will also work cli
[19:56] <OvenWerks> there are reasonable security concerns with giving gui access to an su app.
[19:58] <OvenWerks> At least on a system with many users :)