[08:01] <brobostigon> good morning everyone,
[08:16] <brobostigon> is it possible to setup bitlbee to only allow connections from very specific ips/hostnames ?
[10:05] <popey> brobostigon: you could firewall it with iptables
[10:06] <brobostigon> i am just looking at that possibility.
[10:12] <popey> thanks directhex ☻  just bought system shock 2 and fez
[12:49] <DJones> If anybody has a 13.04 machine to hand, can you check the repositories to see if you have ttp://ppa.launchpad.net/gwendal-lebihan-dev/cinnamon-stable/ubuntu For some reason I've that included in mine and I can't see why, can't remember adding it as a repo, none of the software in the repo is installed and doesn't appear to be anything I would have installed
[12:52] <penguin42> I doubt it would add a ppa by itself
[12:53] <popey> indeed
[12:53] <popey> either you installed it or something else added it during install
[12:53] <popey> you could grep /var/log/dpkg.log for mentions of cinnamon
[12:55] <DJones> Nothing there
[12:55] <popey> well, there may be in older dpkg.logs
[12:55] <popey> alan@deep-thought:/var/log$ ls -l dpkg* | wc -l
[12:56] <popey> 10
[12:56] <DJones> Just looking through the others, nothing in them either
[12:57] <DJones> I'll remove it anyway
[12:57] <popey> where was it?
[12:57] <popey> in /etc/apt/sources.list ?
[12:57] <popey> or in a separate list file
[13:01] <DJones> Just trying to work out where its coming from, its not in sources.list
[13:02] <DJones> Doesn't show in a .list file in sources.list.d
[13:05] <popey> where are you seeing it then?
[13:05] <DJones> I'm looking in Synaptic -> Settings -> Repositories
[13:05] <DJones> Under Other software
[13:06] <popey> if it's enabled then it must be in /etc/apt/sources.list or somewhere in /etc/apt/sources.list.d/
[13:11] <DJones> Found it, its been added in Insync.list
[13:12] <DJones> I've already removed Insync, so removed it from sources
[13:12] <DJones> I knew I hadn't conciously added a cinamon repo
[13:23] <DJones> England 1 - Australia 0 yay
[13:48] <SuperEngineer> watch out, watch; there's a SuperEngineer about ;)
[13:49] <penguin42> oh oh
[13:49] <SuperEngineer> watch out, watch out even - idiot me
[13:51] <SuperEngineer> I hope everybody is well & happy on this wonderful day
[13:52] <popey> HOT!
[13:55]  * popey makes some burgers
[13:56] <SuperEngineer> turn on fans - hang wet towels - wait till later - pat self on back - cook on barbeque
[13:56]  * penguin42 puts choc biscuits in fridge
[13:57]  * popey switches off the pool heater. 33 degrees is warm enough I think!
[14:00] <SuperEngineer> popey: not yet! that's only one degree above it turning into ice!
[14:01]  * SuperEngineer can hear the reaching of C->f table from here
[14:02] <penguin42> only enough 250 degrees or so  until it gets comfortable
[14:11] <SuperEngineer> just checked disk[s] health stats ... & then checked free space
[14:12] <SuperEngineer> health is all cool - free space: 30gig left on Ubuntu partion, 25 on backup disk - storage partions ok
[14:12] <SuperEngineer> conclusion... Steam & Glastonbury are bad for disk space ;)
[14:13] <SuperEngineer> ...but fun
[14:46]  * SuperEngineer just watching interview on BBC Click with Humble Bundle man - nice one beeb!
[14:47] <brobostigon> yes, saw that yesterday.
[14:47] <SuperEngineer> good, huh
[14:48] <SuperEngineer> [some of us were working yesterday]
[15:35] <SuperEngineer> hmmm... why would SMPlayer be asking me which version of mplayer in use [<1.3, 1.3 >1.3] when synaptic shows it at 2.something
[15:36] <MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: but.. vlc!
[15:37] <SuperEngineer> ....could understand if hadn't added it from software Centre... come on SMP - get it right boys
[15:37] <MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: time for some bug filings?
[15:37] <SuperEngineer> I have a long vid I want the  last "played up to" position remembered... to me that read, need SMP
[15:38] <SuperEngineer> MartijnVdS: methinks you might be right
[15:40] <SuperEngineer> ...& if only bugs = wish listas, dear VLC please add.... ;)
[15:41] <MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: what do you need in vlc?
[15:41] <MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: Not just click file, play music/video, done?
[15:41] <MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: or a playlist?
[15:41] <SuperEngineer> MartijnVdS: the abilty to remember last "played up to point" & to carry on next time from there
[15:42] <SuperEngineer> [the only reason I downloaded SMP
[15:42] <MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: http://trac.videolan.org/vlc/ticket/5315
[15:42]  * SuperEngineer opens link
[15:44] <SuperEngineer> ...& sees he's not the only one with that wish
[15:44] <MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: .. nice weekend volunteer project? ;)
[15:45] <SuperEngineer> if only the plugin wasn't a windows plugin - & if only it was in the official build
[15:45] <SuperEngineer> MartijnVdS: :-)
[15:45] <MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: make it an all-platform enhancement in the VLC codebase :)
[15:46] <SuperEngineer> hmmmm....
[15:46] <SuperEngineer> [p.s apart from that slight defect... VLC! wow!
[15:47] <MartijnVdS> yeah it can play ALL the things
[15:48] <SuperEngineer> yup - I had a 1 track music vid from a while back.... nothing would play it...
[15:48] <SuperEngineer> VLC would
[15:48] <MartijnVdS> it can also play from DLNA shares
[15:49] <SuperEngineer> it can probably play as yet uninvented formats I reckon!
[15:49] <penguin42> by sending the codecs backwards in a time machine?
[15:50] <MartijnVdS> penguin42: yes
[15:50] <SuperEngineer> ...now you are pointing the finger ;)
[15:50] <MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: you and your TARDIS
[15:51] <SuperEngineer> I learnt to do without a TARDIS ever since The Dr. stole mine! - now I have learnt to travel without one
[15:51] <MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: DeLorean driver then?
[15:52] <SuperEngineer> MartijnVdS: lol
[15:52] <SuperEngineer> [mine is cleverly disguised as Skoda... noone will guess!]
[15:53] <MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: that'll never hit 99mph though
[15:53] <moreati> 88 mph
[15:53] <MartijnVdS> uh yes
[15:53] <MartijnVdS> 88
[15:53] <SuperEngineer> MartijnVdS: you sure about that?  mine does
[15:53] <MartijnVdS> moreati: still won't hit that speed :)
[15:54] <MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: and it's a Skoda? Are you really sure?
[15:54] <SuperEngineer> ...unless any police on channel atm in which case - 28mph is all it can do!!!
[15:54] <SuperEngineer> MartijnVdS: GPS verified at 98 - with a bit of spare actually
[15:55] <SuperEngineer> no - I did *not* say GP{S verified!!!! - that invalidates insurance
[15:55] <SuperEngineer> so 28mph max it is then
[15:56] <MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: well, maybe you verified it in Germany, on the Autobahn
[15:57] <SuperEngineer> MartijnVdS: yes - I am 100% sure... & yes, of course... how forgetful of me. Of course that's were I verified it!
[15:57]  * penguin42 had assumed it was in the local Super market car park
[15:57] <SuperEngineer> it just looked so similar to a certain m'way I use, easy mistake to make ;)
[15:58] <SuperEngineer> penguin42: no - I leave those for doughnutting idiuots
[15:58] <SuperEngineer> *idiotsa
[15:59]  * penguin42 assumes that isn't related to the sweet bread like confection
[16:00] <SuperEngineer> penguin42: please tell me your not a doughnutting idiot
[16:00] <SuperEngineer> pleeeeeeeese
[16:00] <MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: what if he's a doughnutting smart guy 8-)
[16:01] <SuperEngineer> MartijnVdS: then that's cool - he will be doing it his own time - not the public
[16:02] <penguin42> SuperEngineer: Well only if they're chocolate coated - preferably with some extra chocolate sprinkles
[16:04] <SuperEngineer> Pendulum: stop making me feel hungry! it's too hot for that sort of treat
[16:04] <penguin42> yes, more ice cream weather
[16:04] <MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: you need a "Broeders" ;)
[16:04] <MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: http://www.vandestreek-bier.nl/en/our-beer/
[16:04] <MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: ask AlanBell how it tastes ;)
[16:05] <AlanBell> nom
[16:05] <SuperEngineer> ...with choccy prinkles, choccy flake, choccy sauce..... & a dribble of raspberry just for interest
[16:05] <MartijnVdS> AlanBell: have you tried a Dark Roast yet?
[16:06] <AlanBell> not yet, just the one pale ale
[16:09] <penguin42>  'be surplrised' !
[16:10] <MartijnVdS> penguin42: typos -> info@vandestreek-bier.nl
[16:15]  * penguin42 must try making chocolate sorbet - there is an ice cream place near here that sells it and it's *gorgeous*
[16:17] <SuperEngineer> MartijnVdS: just seen the "Broeders" bit - like the organic bit but wheart beer & I don't usually get on too well
[16:18] <MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: it's only 30% wheat
[16:18] <MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: also, it's "clear", not cloudy like Weizen
[16:19] <MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: but there's always Dark Roast ;)
[16:19] <SuperEngineer> MartijnVdS: hmm.... know - *that* doesa make it appealing
[16:20] <SuperEngineer> [Dark Roast - as in chocolate malt? - no sprinles I hope!]
[16:20] <MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: nah, "coffee stout"
[16:21] <SuperEngineer> MartijnVdS: I will try to find some
[16:21] <SuperEngineer> [locaaly that is]
[16:21] <MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: where in the UK are you? :)
[16:21] <SuperEngineer> MartijnVdS: Gloucestershire
[16:22] <penguin42> SuperEngineer: http://youtu.be/XEEU1nQeGNA?t=32s   reminds me of
[16:22] <MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: it's going to be hard to find local Dutch brews there ;)
[16:22] <SuperEngineer> MartijnVdS: but I travel a fair bit for work [ 1,000 miles/week in bad times]
[16:22] <MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: but my brother is going to drive aroud the UK in is VW van in a few weeks, if you shoot him a mail he might bring you sime
[16:22] <MartijnVdS> some*
[16:22] <penguin42> MartijnVdS: Heck he might miss our summer
[16:22]  * SuperEngineer likes that idea
[16:23] <MartijnVdS> penguin42: he's already having summer in the Netherlands, I think he's going to the UK to see English weather
[16:26] <SuperEngineer> MartijnVdS: Marti"Vds", "vandestreek" beer - do I detct a family connection there?
[16:26] <MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: they're my brothers :)
[16:27] <SuperEngineer> MartijnVdS: wow!
[16:27] <SuperEngineer> so emailing would be ok?
[16:28] <MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: just mail info@vandestreek-bier or use the contact form, saying you'd like some beer if he's in the area
[16:28] <SuperEngineer> Marti said you are to bring to me crates of free beer!
[16:28] <MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: +.nl somewhere in there
[16:28] <MartijnVdS> ಠ_ಠ
[16:28] <SuperEngineer> :D
[16:28] <penguin42> MartijnVdS: I guess it's a hard life having to test beer for your brothers
[16:28] <MartijnVdS> penguin42: yeah, horrible
[16:29] <shauno> I hope your siblings are nothing like mine.  I'm not sure I'd trust their freebies ;)
[16:29] <MartijnVdS> penguin42: they make special edition beers for family birthdays and everything
[16:29] <SuperEngineer> MartijnVdS: I made a celebration once - now it's on sale in supermarkets! that was not my intention
[16:30] <MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: your celebration is on sale?
[16:30] <MartijnVdS> how does that even work? ;)
[16:31] <SuperEngineer> [it proved so popular with press & guests ... I dare not allow it to be a one-off as intended
[16:31] <SuperEngineer> MartijnVdS: ....Exmoor Gold
[16:32] <SuperEngineer> ..& the first to append or prefix "Gold" to a beer name
[16:32] <shauno> o_O
[16:32] <SuperEngineer> [seemed better than Exmoor[brew number] as original called]  ;)
[16:34] <shauno> hm, I quite regularly drink a beer called golden something that's a good 50 years going.  I'd consider it a wild claim that you were the first to go there ;)
[16:35] <MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: yeah, my brothers first used numbers for their brews as well
[16:35] <penguin42> shauno: So good you can't remember the full title?
[16:35] <MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: they still do for their research brews
[16:35] <shauno> penguin42: more that I'm unsure of the translation, it's Zlatý Bažant
[16:36] <SuperEngineer> we didn't actually use brew numbers - the standardd beer was Exmoor Ale - this was a one off for reaching a milestone...
[16:36] <penguin42> shauno: Golden Pheasant according to Google
[16:36] <shauno> that'd explain why I'm not familiar with the second word :)
[16:37] <MartijnVdS> well v/f sounds become "b" in lots of other languages
[16:37] <MartijnVdS> and "fazant" should give a hint that it's like pheasant ;)
[16:37] <SuperEngineer> but to sell commercially a number was not a good idea - so I [as brewer, and therfore witha good say in the matter] put forward exmoor Gold as name to keep to brand name
[16:37] <MartijnVdS> (actually, that's the Dutch name of the bird ;))
[16:38] <shauno> heh, I see your logic in retrospect.  although the B really is a B
[16:38] <SuperEngineer> and shauno if that is correct - I swallow my pride - & change to "name of modern era beers"
[16:39] <MartijnVdS> shauno: in Spanish, things written with a "v" tend to be pronounced with a "b" instead
[16:40] <HoT|2fC^iPad> lo MartijnVdS :-)
[16:40] <HoT|2fC^iPad> Is there a Server version of ubuntu?
[16:40] <MartijnVdS> there is
[16:40] <MartijnVdS> it's called, surprisingly, "Ubuntu Server"
[16:41] <MartijnVdS> you can find the installation ISOs in the same place as the desktop ISOs
[16:41] <SuperEngineer> ...& if anyone is wondering - I have my original test brews in a case at home - signed HMCE.
[16:41] <HoT|2fC^iPad> Ah nice I might install it on a ol Dell desktop I have using a Intel Cel D :D
[16:41] <MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: that's cool :)
[16:41] <SuperEngineer> I call it my "ritirement policy" ;:
[16:41] <MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: you should really email my brothers then, as a beer guru ;)
[16:42] <SuperEngineer> MartijnVdS: the idea gets more & more interesting
[16:42] <HoT|2fC^iPad> Ok thanks :-) currently on a train so cant do it yet lol.
[16:47] <SuperEngineer> MartijnVdS: if the bros are r***** &s****** I've found an email address
[16:48] <MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: they are, just use info@vandestreek-bier.nl though
[16:48] <MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: that goes to both
[16:48] <MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: and into the correct folder in their mail apps ;)
[16:48] <SuperEngineer> MartijnVdS: cool - will do
[16:58] <SuperEngineer> celebration time folks - just regained use of headphones [plugged in front of pc socket] back
[16:58] <MartijnVdS> \m/
[16:59] <MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: something to listen to: http://open.spotify.com/album/79pZVE4kIdBwRwP27Fw1yJ
[17:01] <SuperEngineer> MartijnVdS: "To enjoy Spotify, please install Adobe Flash. It's free." - not in my browser!. but thanks anyway
[17:02] <MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: you can jsut install the .deb instead, of spotify
[17:02] <MartijnVdS> https://www.spotify.com/nl/download/previews/
[17:02] <MartijnVdS> that's Dutch.. wait a minute
[17:02] <MartijnVdS> https://www.spotify.com/en/download/previews/
[17:02] <SuperEngineer> [I have flash installed - I can "release" it on most pages if reallly needed - but Spotify wanmts to go try all on it's on!  No!
[17:03] <SuperEngineer> trying that last link
[17:09] <SuperEngineer> Marti would that be an advert supported version by any chance?
[17:09] <SuperEngineer> MartijnVdS:  would that be an advert supported version by any chance?
[17:09] <MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: by default it's ad-supported, you can buy a subscription to get rid of the ads
[17:09]  * MartijnVdS 's ISP pays for the subscription though \o/
[17:10] <MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: let me find a better way to stream for you
[17:10] <MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: http://grooveshark.com/#!/album/Lysandre/8423091
[17:15]  * SuperEngineer opens that link... feels better about that one!!! cheers
[17:17] <SuperEngineer> hmmm - it had a problem opening flash - yup, that would be because it didn't ask for permission [snigger]
[17:17]  * SuperEngineer punches chest with fists - Tarzan stylie!
[17:18] <SuperEngineer> & knows he wins
[17:35] <penguin42> anyone know how pkgcofnig is supposed to work when cross building with debs?
[17:36] <MartijnVdS> penguin42: you should probably ask the raspbian guys
[17:37] <MartijnVdS> penguin42: they cross-built (build?) a lot of their archive
[17:37] <MartijnVdS> Sheffield is on fire: http://i.imgur.com/qJYiv51.jpg
[17:38] <penguin42> MartijnVdS: Was a pretty big fire in Manchester yesterday, I see Sheffield is always late....
[17:38] <MartijnVdS> 8-)
[17:42]  * SuperEngineer currently watching glastonbury performance from Alabama Shakes - she is mostly motionless - except for the mouth - & wow!!
[17:42] <MartijnVdS> Alabama Shakes are great :)
[17:42] <SuperEngineer> +1
[17:43] <MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: you should see Ed Harcourt as well
[17:45] <SuperEngineer> MartijnVdS: will go hunt
[17:46] <MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: it's on iplayer
[17:47] <SuperEngineer> [what I thought was a Rolloing Stones only vid is actually an extended full-on "Best Of" - wiondered why it was so large ;)
[17:47] <SuperEngineer> MartijnVdS: downloaded via get- [then remanmed and moved and backed up - no expire]!
[17:48]  * SuperEngineer slaps wrist
[17:49] <SuperEngineer> [sorry about typos - hard to type when so distracted by that voice!]
[17:51] <MartijnVdS> hm.. MOT day tomorrow :|
[17:51] <MartijnVdS> (well APK, but that's the same thing but Dutch)
[17:58] <SuperEngineer> quick self tyres, washers, lights and dashborad indicators check time - saves a fortune [but you know that already]
[17:59] <MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: yeah, it's service time as well
[17:59] <MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: so they're going to do some basic fixes first :)
[18:00] <MartijnVdS> I hope the adventure with the curb near popey's house didn't break anything other than my tyre
[18:04] <SuperEngineer> MartijnVdS: get them to check the boot as well -there mightr still be popey chickens in it!
[18:04] <MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: it's a SMART, it doesn't have much of a boot
[18:04] <SuperEngineer> MartijnVdS: lol
[18:04] <MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: https://plus.google.com/photos/100189567362844794281/albums/5877491002319853233/5877491010391899122?pid=5877491010391899122&oid=100189567362844794281
[18:05] <SuperEngineer> just checked it - no damage - tell them it's a "pass"
[18:05] <MartijnVdS> \o/
[18:25] <popey> SuperEngineer: no chickens here
[18:25]  * SuperEngineer  hums "ain't nobody here but us chickens"
[18:30] <SuperEngineer> ...& invents next podcast title at same same!!!
[18:34] <popey> We have a pattern for podcast titles
[18:37] <SuperEngineer> darn
[18:37] <AlanBell> Ubuntu Run
[18:42] <popey> that wont fit either
[18:43] <AlanBell> true, Chicken Ubuntu then
[18:44] <popey> ☻
[18:44] <penguin42> is that like Chicken Kiev?
[18:45] <MartijnVdS> penguin42: is that like Chicken Chernobyl?
[18:46] <penguin42> MartijnVdS: Similar, but you can get it served cold
[18:58] <MartijnVdS> top gear o'clock
[18:59] <brobostigon> new top gear, bbc2.
[18:59] <brobostigon> :)
[18:59] <MartijnVdS> and hunt vs lauda after that
[19:01] <brobostigon> gibralter airport,
[19:01] <brobostigon> damn, nope.
[19:01] <MartijnVdS> brobostigon: pissing of the Spanish by calling Gibraltar "Here in Britain"
[19:02] <MartijnVdS> off
[19:02] <brobostigon> lol
[19:06] <penguin42> sigh I hate libtool
[19:09] <MartijnVdS> that's ok, it hates you back
[19:09] <MartijnVdS> in fact, it hates everyone
[19:11] <penguin42> nod
[19:37] <popey> not seen any of this season of top gear
[19:37] <popey> or the previous season, despite having a ticket to go to the studio audience.
[19:37] <popey> Top gear jumped the shark about 3 seasons or so back
[19:39]  * penguin42 hasn't watched it in a while, but there again I'm not a car penguin
[19:40] <shauno> I'm not really a car person, but I am basically an overgrown 12yo.  apparently their core audience
[19:40] <AlanBell> I have recorded it for later watching
[19:41] <AlanBell> but yeah, it probably is time for a change of format/change of presenters
[19:41] <popey> i enjoy the Drive youtube channel much more
[19:41] <popey> http://www.youtube.com/user/drive
[19:43] <MartijnVdS> popey: does it have POWAAAAR
[19:43] <popey> meh
[19:43] <popey> its fun, more entertaining than the rather formulaeic top gear
[19:43] <AlanBell> contains more car
[19:44] <AlanBell> and less "last of the summer wine"
[19:44] <popey> much less ego
[19:45] <AlanBell> heh, a comparison that has been made before :) http://www.newsbiscuit.com/2011/04/08/top-gear-producers-angrily-deny-any-resemblance-to-last-of-the-summer-wine/
[19:50] <mungbean> i find cars boring, which is why i enjoy topgear
[19:52] <brobostigon> i find the idioticism funny, almost like i am expecting boris johnson to appear.
[19:52] <popey> i like old cars, but don't really care about cars I'll never have any chance to own
[19:52]  * popey has the holy grail going on his other screen
[19:53] <mungbean> records the returned for another night
[19:53] <mungbean> and switches off telly
[20:04] <ali1234> "loosely car-based sitcom" HAHAHA
[20:05] <hcfd> If you were going to deploy Ubuntu on 50 school desktops, tomorrow, would you choose 10.04 or 12.04?
[20:06] <ali1234> 12.04
[20:07] <hcfd> Support/upgrade issues aside, still 12.04?
[20:07] <hcfd> The reason I have some doubts is that I have found 12.04 to be much flakier.
[20:07] <ali1234> yes
[20:07] <ali1234> that is easily fixed
[20:07] <ali1234> simply don't use unity or compiz
[20:08] <hcfd> What's the quickest way back to Gnome 2.x?
[20:08] <ali1234> sudo apt-get install gnome-session-fallback
[20:08] <hcfd> Magic. Thank you ali1234 :)
[20:09] <ali1234> this will stop working soon though
[20:09] <ali1234> but hopefully by then consort-session or mate-session will be a reasonable replacement (they currently aren't unfortunately)
[20:09] <hcfd> Case in point: I am installing 12.04.2 LTS VM at the minute, and I'm running the first batch of updates, which fail, because one dependency requires 2.0 but 2.2 is installed. *sigh*
[20:10] <penguin42> hcfd: That's odd - what package?
[20:11] <hcfd> For my own system I have 10.04.4 and I've chopped and changed various bits as I go, but for a fresh deployment I'd like to use 12.04 if I could make it more reliable.
[20:11] <hcfd> penguin42, just a sec...
[20:11] <penguin42> a clean 12.04.2 should just work; are you adding any PPAs or the like?
[20:11] <ali1234> should...
[20:12] <hcfd> Depends: python-minimal (= 2.7.3-0ubuntu2) but 2.7.3-0ubuntu2.2 is installed
[20:12] <ali1234> that's a bug
[20:12] <hcfd> This is a clean and full-auto/default install
[20:12] <hcfd> Yes.
[20:12] <ali1234> someone typod the debian/control
[20:12] <ali1234> what package has that dependency?
[20:12] <hcfd> python
[20:13] <ali1234> whut
[20:13] <ali1234> python depends on python minimal?
[20:13] <hcfd> heh
[20:13] <ali1234> i suppose that makes sense
[20:13] <hcfd> That's what it's trying to tell me, yep.
[20:13] <ali1234> !info python precise
[20:13] <hcfd> And now Update Manager has closed unexpectedly.
[20:13] <ali1234> !info python-minimal precise
[20:13] <brobostigon> !info testing
[20:13] <hcfd> I should still risk pain and suffering for 12.04?
[20:14] <brobostigon> !info python testing
[20:14] <brobostigon> !info python3 testing
[20:15] <brobostigon> i personally, would either go with *buntu lts or debian stable for such applications.
[20:15] <ali1234> hcfd: did you apt-get update before updating?
[20:15] <hcfd> Well this *is* Ubuntu 12.04 LTS
[20:15] <hcfd> ali1234, yes
[20:15] <ali1234> 2.7.3-0ubuntu2 appears to be the version from the initial release
[20:16] <ali1234> anyway, you're not going to have any better luck with 10.04
[20:16] <popey> hcfd: 12.04.2?
[20:16] <hcfd> popey, yes
[20:16] <ali1234> the older releases tend to slowly fall apart even when they are still officially supposed to be maintained
[20:16] <popey> this is a cleanly installed system which you're running update manager on?
[20:16] <hcfd> ali1234, except my experience over the last 3 years has been good with 10.04.
[20:17] <ali1234> yeah well it will be if you are constantly updating it
[20:17] <hcfd> popey, yes. It's the 64bit version on the latest VirtualBox atop of Windows 7, but that's by-the-by.
[20:17] <popey> I'll try and reproduce it
[20:17] <ali1234> 10.04 LTS 5 year support only applies to server stuff btw, not desktop. that's right isn't it popey? 2 or 3 years for desktop?
[20:17] <hcfd> popey, okay, appreciated.
[20:18] <popey> yes
[20:18] <penguin42> hcfd: That sounds like you've got half a set of updates - i.e. it's found one new python package but not the other, which mirror are you using?
[20:18] <popey> see http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Releases
[20:18] <hcfd> popey, I just downloaded from http://www.ubuntu.com/download/desktop and chose 12.04 LTS 64-bit
[20:18] <ali1234> really there's no way i would even consider using 10.04 for a new desktop deployment today
[20:18]  * popey downloads
[20:19] <popey> i installed 12.04 recently and dont recall this issue
[20:19] <ali1234> i suspect it's something to do with initial apt-get update
[20:19] <hcfd> penguin42, could be. I was idly clicking through the GUI and let it choose whatever mirror it automagically determined was best.
[20:19] <ali1234> something that you'll only ever see once per install, if you see it at all
[20:20] <popey> it should do an apt-get update post-install
[20:20] <ali1234> there's that word again
[20:21] <hcfd> 's/should/will\ hopefully'
[20:21] <penguin42> hcfd: You could try paste bin'ing the output of   apt-cache python
[20:21] <popey> also pastebin your /var/log/dpkg.log
[20:21] <penguin42> hcfd: I think the trick with the python packages must match - i.e. the main and the minimal
[20:21] <hcfd> Sure
[20:22] <popey> hah, just downloaded the iso
[20:22] <popey> already had it from last friday - oops
[20:22] <ali1234> there also that option in the installer "download updates..."
[20:22] <popey> shows how recently I installed it
[20:23] <popey> hcfd: did you tick "download updates while installing" or "install third-party software" in the installer?
[20:24] <hcfd> Both
[20:24] <popey> k
[20:26] <hcfd> apt-cache: http://paste.ubuntu.com/5875288/
[20:27] <hcfd> dpkg: http://paste.ubuntu.com/5875290/ (1MB)
[20:28] <ali1234> "unpacked python2.7 2.7.3-0ubuntu3.2" 3.2?
[20:28] <hcfd> o_O
[20:29] <ali1234> apt-cache says it knows about 2 and 2.2
[20:29] <ali1234> but not 3.2
[20:29] <ali1234> that is very strange
[20:31] <popey> its not 3.2 though
[20:31] <popey> it's 2.7.3..
[20:31] <penguin42> hcfd: What about apt-cache policy python
[20:32] <penguin42> actually, that's the 1st bit
[20:32] <penguin42> hcfd: What does apt-cache policy python-minimal say ?
[20:32] <ali1234> popey: 2.7.3-0ubuntu2 vs 2.7.3-0ubuntu2.2 vs 2.7.3-0ubuntu3.2
[20:32] <hcfd> http://paste.ubuntu.com/5875313/
[20:33] <popey> sorry, thought you were implying it was python 3.2
[20:33] <penguin42> hcfd: OK, so that can get a 2.2 and the main python can get a 2.2 - so hmm what's the problem?
[20:34] <hcfd> http://paste.ubuntu.com/5875315/
[20:34] <hcfd> penguin42, <hcfd> Depends: python-minimal (= 2.7.3-0ubuntu2) but 2.7.3-0ubuntu2.2 is installed
[20:35] <penguin42> hcfd: Yeh, I can't see why it isn't installing python 2.7.3-0ubuntu2.2 to solve that
[20:35] <hcfd> 254 updates in the queue but they won't install because ^
[20:35] <hcfd> I'm sure I can coax it to
[20:35] <hcfd> But, fresh install.. I expect the initial updates to work
[20:35] <penguin42> nod so would I
[20:36] <penguin42> hcfd: What's the lines before the Depends: python-minimal .... - can you pastebin the full text?
[20:36] <popey> right, precise installed
[20:36]  * popey snapshots
[20:36] <hcfd> Thanks popey
[20:37] <hcfd> penguin42, That is the full text, with one exception: Prepend "python: " and you've got it all.
[20:37] <popey> so what should I do, login, wait for update manager to appear?
[20:37] <hcfd> popey, yeah, so I logged in, waited for update manager, clicked install all... If it wanted a reboot I let it, rinse, repeat
[20:37] <popey> k
[20:38] <penguin42> hcfd: The thing I'm confused by is it seems to be possible for it to upgrade the python and it knows that, so I'm curious why it's not just updating the python as well
[20:38] <hcfd> Sure
[20:38] <hcfd> Shall I go ahead and see if I can coax it to proceed?
[20:39] <penguin42> give Popey a chance first
[20:39] <hcfd> No problem
[20:39] <penguin42> hcfd: But I'd try doing an apt-get update just to make sure it has got the latest set, and then I'd try doing an apt-get install python   and see what happened
[20:40] <hcfd> And off it goes, 2.2 installed.
[20:42] <hcfd> It's worth pointing out again that Update Manager crashed after it errored on unmet dependency for python.
[20:42] <hcfd> It's proceeding fine with the other updates now.
[20:42] <popey> right, update manager has popped up
[20:42] <popey> 278 updates
[20:43] <penguin42> hcfd: do you have anything in /var/crash ?
[20:43]  * popey runs "apt-get -s upgrade >> aptgetupgrade
[20:43] <popey> and apt-get -s dist-upgrade >> aptgetupgrade
[20:43] <popey> or similar
[20:44] <hcfd> penguin42, I do indeed.
[20:44] <penguin42> hcfd: What?
[20:44] <hcfd> _usr_bin_update-manager.100.crash
[20:44] <hcfd> _usr_bin_update-manager.100.upload
[20:44] <popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/5875349/
[20:44] <hcfd> _usr_bin_update-manager.100.uploaded
[20:44] <popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/5875350/
[20:44] <hcfd> .1000. rather
[20:45] <hcfd> The .crash is 183K
[20:45]  * popey hits "install updates" in update manager
[20:45] <penguin42> now that .uploaded means it's been submitted to somewhere doesn't it?
[20:45] <popey> yes
[20:45] <popey> errors.ubuntu.com
[20:46] <popey> hcfd: how much ram has your vm got?
[20:46] <popey> mine has 2GB
[20:46] <hcfd> Ah, just 1GB
[20:46] <popey> just a thought
[20:46] <hcfd> Valid
[20:46] <popey> applying changes...
[20:46] <penguin42> hcfd: You could unpack that crash file and see the actual backtrace if you felt enthusiastic
[20:47] <popey> or create a bug and apport-collect it into teh bug report
[20:47] <hcfd> penguin42, if I had more time
[20:47] <hcfd> popey, I'm waiting to see if you can reproduce it at all
[20:48] <penguin42> hcfd: Nod,  in principal if you've got an lp account then just doing   ubuntu-bug and the path to the crash file should do it all for you
[20:49] <penguin42> then we could see what you hit
[20:50] <hcfd> ubuntu-bug ran at the time of the crash
[20:51] <hcfd> I should do more?
[20:51] <hcfd> Forgive my ignorance
[20:52] <penguin42> ah do you have a bug number?
[20:52] <hcfd> No, but I agree that'd be the next step
[20:52] <hcfd> Let me create the ticket
[20:52] <penguin42> hmm if ubuntu-bug ran doesn't it give you a bug number?
[20:52] <penguin42> (or does the default send that to errors.ubuntu rather than launchpad)
[20:53] <hcfd> I think it zooms to errors.ubuntu and that's that.
[20:53] <hcfd> Yeah, that's all.
[20:53] <penguin42> yeh so I think you should be able to get ubuntu-bug to send it to lp if you run it like I said above
[20:54] <penguin42> hcfd: Or use apport-cli to unpack and then you can just find the python backtrace and see if there is an existing bug
[20:55] <hcfd> This is new to me. Running ubuntu-bug with one argument (path to crash file) sends to errors.ubuntu
[20:55] <popey> right, so first run of update manager has finished
[20:55] <popey> it now says I need to reboot
[20:55]  * popey does that
[20:56]  * popey opens update manager and checks for updates post-reboot
[20:56] <hcfd> penguin42, ah okay, so it's a duplicate of http://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/871430
[20:56] <popey> no updates
[20:56] <popey> so no, i cant reproduce it
[20:57] <popey> I'll burn this and do it again with 1GB RAM
[20:57] <hcfd> See link above.
[20:57] <hcfd> Duplicate of existing bug, original reporter was on 11.10..
[20:57] <hcfd> Hmm.
[20:57] <penguin42> hmm 2 years old, triaged, high but failing again with a different package version on 2 years newer version odd - some type of race?
[20:57] <popey> 11.10
[20:58] <hcfd> Brian Murray (brian-murray) on 2011-10-11 importance: Undecided -> High
[20:58] <penguin42> hcfd: Are you sure that's the crash as opposed to the version error - or is it really the same problem?
[20:58] <penguin42> hcfd: 32 bit or 64?
[20:58] <hcfd> 64
[20:59] <hcfd> I'm certain that's the crash
[20:59]  * popey does the same updates in update manager again but with 1GB RAM
[20:59] <hcfd> Whether the crash is related to the version error.. it's temporally proximal, but I can't assert it's related.
[21:00] <penguin42> I see lots of other bugs with people hitting python-minimal stuff on upgrades - but not fresh installs - except for that one
[21:02] <popey> finished okay with 1GB RAM
[21:02] <popey> sorry hcfd
[21:03] <hcfd> No worries, great effort to reproduce. :)
[21:03] <penguin42> popey: It does look like the same bug 871430 bug though so I guess he's not just making it up to test us :-)
[21:03] <hcfd> 'strue! :-)
[21:03] <popey> hehe
[21:04] <popey> np
[21:04] <penguin42> hcfd: I'd say report the bug with ubuntu-bug anyway if you can, explain what you did to work around it and add a comment saying it looks like 871430 and also add a comment on 871430 saying you managed to trigger it on 12.04.2
[21:05] <penguin42>  <afk>
[21:05] <hcfd> Consider it done
[21:05] <hcfd> Thanks guys
[21:07] <popey> np
[21:07] <popey> fun ☻
[21:32] <mgdm> The DSL here syncs at 8Mbit but I get 30kbytes/sec do:(
[21:32] <mgdm> s/do$/down/
[21:32]  * mgdm blames BT and their wet string
[21:34] <moreati> give them some credit. It takes a lot of watering cans to keep string wet in this weather
[21:38] <moreati> http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1604965156/ubuntu-theater-project-summer-festival-breaking-ch?ref=home_spotlight no relation AFAICT
[21:39] <mgdm> moreati: sadly this is NW Scotland, and it's just got a bit damp up here again, just in time for me to arrive
[21:41] <mgdm> (and the backhaul to the mainland is a microwave link from Stornoway to Dingwall, which is not keen on rain)