/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2013/07/15/#ubuntu-meeting.txt

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tyhickshello16:30
jjohansen\o16:30
chrisccoulson_hi16:30
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jdstrandhi!16:30
mdeslaurhi16:30
jdstrand#startmeeting16:30
meetingologyMeeting started Mon Jul 15 16:30:50 2013 UTC.  The chair is jdstrand. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.16:30
meetingologyAvailable commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired16:30
jdstrandThe meeting agenda can be found at:16:30
jdstrand[LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting16:30
jdstrand[TOPIC] Weekly stand-up report16:31
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly stand-up report
jdstrandI'll go first16:31
jdstrandlast week was more work on apparmor (application lifecycle, click and application confinement)16:31
jdstrandI had hoped to get openjdk-7 out, but testing took longer than expected. that should go out today16:31
jdstrandI am preparing openjdk-6 uploads now16:32
jdstrandcause of the above, I postponed patch piloting again, so I'll give it another shot this week16:32
jdstrandI have some july work items, particularly getting the evil app together for the IoM demo, and trying to drive the conversations that affect us related to that demo to conclusion16:33
jdstrandI upgraded to saucy on my main system over the weekend, and have a number of bugs to file/investigate16:33
jdstrandmdeslaur: you're up16:33
mdeslaurI'm in the happy place this week16:34
mdeslaurI just published a couple of USNs16:34
mdeslaurand am currently working on php5 updates16:34
mdeslaurI have a couple of other things to test and will probably release them this week16:34
mdeslaurafter that, I'll continue picking stuff from the CVE list16:34
mdeslaurthat's it for me16:34
mdeslaursbeattie: you're up16:34
sbeattieI'm working on apparmor stuff this week16:35
sbeattieI'm currently working on getting the click hook prototype implementation far enough along to help drive the hook discussion to completion.16:35
sbeattieI also upgraded to saucy over the weekend, and have a couple of bugs of my own to file.16:36
sbeattieI think that's it for me.16:36
sbeattietyhicks: you're up16:37
tyhicksI'll be updating the apparmor parser according to the DBus/IPC syntax that we decided on last week16:37
tyhicksI upgraded to saucy and need to take a look at some new AA dbus denials16:38
tyhicksThen content-hub should be at a good place for me to start on the Content Handler work items16:38
tyhicksI also need to find a little time for ecryptfs patch reviews16:39
tyhicksthat's it for me16:39
tyhicksjjohansen: you're up16:39
jjohansenI am working on apparmor WIs this week, I am going to try and get some parser cleanups (and fixes collisions with tyhicks work) and changes for ipc out this week, before my long weekend (I'm off M,T next week).16:39
jjohansenI also need to start pushing the apparmorfs changes upstream (for 3.12) now that the merge window for 3.11 has closed16:41
jjohansenI think thats it for me chrisccoulson your up16:42
chrisccoulsonhi :)16:42
chrisccoulsonnote, i've just had a couple of short weeks (was away last monday, and the last 2 days of the week previous)16:43
chrisccoulsoni got another flash update out last week16:43
chrisccoulsonalso attended a call to talk about the UA string for the mobile browser. we're going to have a further call with someone from mozilla soon16:44
chrisccoulsondid some more work on oxide (what i've got is actually buildable now!)16:44
chrisccoulsoni'm hoping to have it sort-of working sometime next week16:44
chrisccoulsoni'm going to arrange a meeting for all stakeholders of that this week16:45
mdeslaur\o/16:45
jdstrandre oxide building> woo!16:45
chrisccoulsoni think that's me done16:45
jdstrand[TOPIC] Highlighted packages16:45
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Highlighted packages
jdstrandThe Ubuntu Security team will highlight some community-supported packages that might be good candidates for updating and or triaging. If you would like to help Ubuntu and not sure where to start, this is a great way to do so.16:46
jdstrandSee https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdateProcedures for details and if you have any questions, feel free to ask in #ubuntu-security. To find out other ways of helping out, please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/GettingInvolved.16:46
jdstrandhttp://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/libuser.html16:46
jdstrandhttp://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/gnucash.html16:46
jdstrandhttp://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/salt.html16:46
jdstrandhttp://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/alien-arena.html16:46
jdstrandhttp://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/php-letodms-core.html16:46
jdstrand[TOPIC] Miscellaneous and Questions16:46
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Miscellaneous and Questions
jdstrandDoes anyone have any other questions or items to discuss?16:46
jdstrandmdeslaur, sbeattie, tyhicks, jjohansen, chrisccoulson: thanks!16:56
jdstrand#endmeeting16:56
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
meetingologyMeeting ended Mon Jul 15 16:56:21 2013 UTC.16:56
meetingologyMinutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-07-15-16.30.moin.txt16:56
meetingologyMinutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-07-15-16.30.html16:56
mdeslaurthanks jdstrand!16:56
tyhicksthanks16:56
jjohansenthanks jdstrand16:56
sbeattiethanks jdstrand16:57
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* Laney shines the DMB's logo into the sky19:01
Laney(it's a turtle)19:01
ScottK\o19:02
ScottKWhat's on the agenda for today?19:03
LaneyOnly actioning someone who will do it to write up the proposal19:03
LaneyOr we could take the time to do some of it right now19:04
* tumbleweed sees we are due for a CC catch-up this week19:04
* stgraber waves19:04
Laneysince we're all free for an hour, yes?19:04
tumbleweedright now has my vote (better than never)19:04
Laneysomeone set us up the pad19:04
ScottKNow is good.  I'm on vacation this week, so my IRC will be very intermittent and I'm here now.19:08
LaneyI just sat down outside with $beer and $laptop and now I have to go and find $yubikey19:08
* Laney slaps SSO19:08
LaneyOK, let's just use the existing one then: http://pad.ubuntu.com/dmb-ppu-membership-proposal19:10
LaneyDinner's beeping19:33
Laneysomeone take over what I was writing for 5 minutes?19:33
* ScottK need to take a short break too.19:34
LaneyOK19:37
ScottKBack19:39
LaneyI'm not sure if this paragraph actually represents the consensus19:42
Laneyplease sanity check it19:42
Laney(the last one I've written)19:42
micahg-workI think it reflects the vote, I'm not sure it reflects consensus19:43
Laneyhaha19:43
LaneyLike, should we enumerate the initial list of sets19:43
Laneyor is it "packages on any media"?19:43
Laneyor ...?19:43
micahg-workoh, surely19:43
micahg-workto enumeration19:43
micahg-workno, I don't think packages on any media should be a requirement19:44
ScottKIs there such a thing as "non-uploading dev members"?19:44
micahg-workScottK, yes, formerly universe contributors19:44
ScottKLine 42 now.19:44
ScottKAh, right.19:44
ScottKThey are members, but not ubuntu-dev.19:44
micahg-workright19:45
micahg-workI19:45
Laneyomg19:45
LaneyI don't know what to write19:45
Laneyapprove/????19:45
* Laney fails at english19:45
Laneyapprove/disapprove sounds weird to me19:45
* ScottK rewords19:45
Laneythanks19:46
ScottKNot sure we're on the same thing.19:46
Laneyoh, the thing about asking the TB to do something with it19:46
barryLaney: "adopted or revised"?19:47
LaneyI reworded it to not make me have to decide :P19:47
barry:)19:48
ScottKThere.19:48
* ScottK fixed it harder19:48
Laneyta19:48
Laneythat's me more or less out of steam19:49
Laneyso feel free to improve it from here19:49
micahg-workssh laney; sudo apt-get install steam19:49
Laneyheh19:49
LaneyI had to /remove/ that because my SSD ran out of space19:50
Laney(because I've given over half of it to GameOS for steam... :P)19:50
ScottKWho's in favor of these proposed amendments?19:52
micahg-worko/19:52
tumbleweedvaguely in favour of 1. fairly ambivilant about 219:53
ScottKI'm strongly against #1.19:54
stgraberI'm against both19:54
ScottKnon-developers shouldn't be voting for the DMB/TB.19:54
micahg-workScottK, #2 is for developers without upload rights19:54
ScottKI'm at least slightly ambivalent about that one.19:55
tumbleweedre #1, these are developers, just not uploaders19:55
ScottKI'm mostly against though.19:55
barryi'm against #219:55
micahg-workoops, did I get my number wrong19:55
micahg-workI meant 119:55
ScottKIf UCD can vote for DMB, then they can also vote for/against the DMB people that will approve their eventual dev application.19:55
barryit seems like #1 should be in favor though, right?  members even if they're not developers, should get a vote?19:56
ScottKThat's pretty backwards.19:56
tumbleweedScottK: s/UCD/PPU/ and does it actually change anything?19:56
ScottKbarry: membership gets you a vote in the CC election.19:56
ScottKUCD can't vote to DMB/TB now.19:56
micahg-workScottK, why can't you say the same about PPU?  according to that, only core-dev should vote for DMB/TB19:56
ScottKSomeone with PPU + membership has a combination of assessed technical capability and sustained contribution to the project that make it appropriate, IMO, for them to vote for TB/DMB.19:58
ScottKNeither PPU without member nor UCD have both those.19:58
ScottKNeither should vote for DMB/TB.19:58
micahg-workScottK, why is it any different from a non-uploading DD having a vote in project elections19:58
ScottKProject elections are more like the CC vote, where they do have a vote.19:58
micahg-workGRs can be technical though?19:59
ScottKTrue.20:00
tumbleweedUCD aren't equivalent to non-uploading DDs (nwhich is a horrible term)20:00
ScottKWe don't have an equivalent of a GR though.20:00
tumbleweedthey got membership through devolpment, just not upload rights20:00
tumbleweednon-uploading DDs don't need upload rights because they aren't developers20:01
ScottKChanging who votes for TB/DMB isn't needed to solve the problem of separating membership from PPU.20:01
tumbleweedagreed20:02
micahg-worktrue20:02
ScottKSince it is controversial, I propose we drop it for now and focus on only the changes we really need to accomplish this goal.20:02
stgraber+120:02
barry+120:02
micahg-workok, I removed it, I'll mull it over a bit more, if I feel it's worth doing, I'll make a proposal once this is done20:05
ScottKFor the core-packages/membership question, I think it's fair to have a rule that says they generally do, but there may be exceptional cases.20:05
micahg-workwell, I think it should be the exceptional case where membership is required, if we don't trust the person to be uploading, then we don't trust them20:06
ScottKFor individual packages, I can see that.20:07
tumbleweedon the whole, our actively involved developers should be members20:07
tumbleweedbleh, let me not start down that road20:07
ScottKNo, I agree with that.20:07
tumbleweedI don't see the membership thing as a trust thing20:08
micahg-workright, the goal isn't the build an army of non-member developers here, but rather to let them start helping if they have the skills on the path to membership IMHO20:08
tumbleweedbut I guess some people do20:08
tumbleweedright20:08
ScottKmicahg-work: One can help without upload rights.20:08
ScottKGenerally core packages won't be the "DD who has a vague interest in making sure his packages work on Ubuntu" case20:09
micahg-workright, but it could be a DD who also uses Ubuntu and wishes to help keep things running smoothly20:11
ScottKIf that's the case, they'll probably usually qualify for membership.20:12
micahg-worknot necessarily20:12
LaneyI was hoping the vote would mean we didn't have to reopen this question20:13
ScottKI think we can decide on a case by case basis if it's needed or not.20:14
micahg-workcore has a bunch of stuff that seemingly doesn't belong, but I guess those are bugs20:15
ScottKOr reasonable cases for exceptions.20:16
LaneyCan we avoid seeming arbitrary and/or confusing if there are exceptions?20:16
ScottKEither way, I don't think we should block on getting this exactly right.20:20
ScottKNo, but so what.20:21
ScottKAny time the DMB applies judgment, some will see it as being arbitrary.20:22
ScottKIt's not an avoidable problem.20:22
tumbleweedyeah20:22
tumbleweedso, are we done?20:22
ScottKCan someone who's not me or micahg-work write something in there about discretion about if core package PPU needs membership or not?20:23
ScottKThen I think we're done.20:23
LaneyI suppose it's not so bad if we're not expecting people to explicitly say they want membership all the time20:24
ScottKI'd expect to discuss it with the applicant if there was doubt.20:25
* ScottK has to go.20:30
LaneyOK I added a ()sentence about it20:31
Laneyeveryone read it over and I'll send it some time this week20:32
barryLaney: thanks20:32
tumbleweedyeah20:32
micahg-workLaney, thanks20:32
* tumbleweed will re-read tomorrow. knackered, going to bed20:33
Laneynn20:33
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