[00:34] <joe_shading> Nice picture of a cloud on http://imgur.com/dZuRoHl off http://popey.com/webcam/
[00:40] <Azelphur> hehe
[00:40] <Azelphur> seems like a lonely cloud.
[00:56] <Azelphur> for some evening entertainment, I saw this today http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5evOrmc0WWo
[01:13] <joe_shading> #cumulusfractus
[06:51] <MooDoo> morning all
[06:57] <knightwise> morning
[06:59] <AlanBell> morning all
[07:00] <TheOpenSourcerer> morning
[07:04] <dwatkins> oioi
[07:40] <ztuiop> hello there
[07:40] <ztuiop> anyone here ?
[07:42] <AlanBell> ztuiop: loads of people
[07:44] <ztuiop> well, i would like to know, each time i m talking on skype with someone, the call drops
[07:44] <ztuiop> if i send a mail the mail not receive at time
[07:44] <popey> morning
[07:44] <ztuiop> lot of problem on my network
[07:45] <popey> ztuiop: is it a laptop with wireless?
[07:45] <ztuiop> so decide to turn off the WIFI
[07:45] <ztuiop> now i m only using wired connexion
[07:46] <ztuiop> but i still got the problem
[07:46] <ztuiop> now i would to identify the person who doing this ?
[07:46] <ztuiop> what is the method to do ?
[07:55] <bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
[07:55] <MartijnVdS> \o bigcalm
[07:56] <popey> ztuiop: I'd use tools like iftop and mtr to check my network
[07:59] <ztuiop> what you can with these tool ?
[07:59] <ztuiop> see
[08:01] <MartijnVdS> popey: that only works for the local network though. If his modem is being DoSsed, it's harder to see what's going on
[08:04] <brobostigon> good morning everyone.
[08:05] <diplo> Morning all
[08:05] <MartijnVdS> \o diplo
[08:05] <popey> MartijnVdS: sure, but it helps
[08:06] <MartijnVdS> popey: it can help, yes
[08:06] <MartijnVdS> popey: it can prove what's NOT happening :)
[08:06] <brobostigon> morning MartijnVdS and diplo and popey
[08:07] <BigRedS> Gooooooood Morning!
[08:07] <BigRedS> apparently
[08:08] <MartijnVdS> Well, the sun is out here in Amsterdam
[08:08] <BigRedS> yeah, we've got that issue in London, too
[08:08] <MartijnVdS> sister cities 8-)
[08:09] <shauno> I've got cloud cover!  at last!  lovely, lovely cloud cover
[08:09] <MartijnVdS> shauno: Finally! Clouds to store our data in!
[08:09] <BigRedS> haha
[08:12] <shauno> MartijnVdS: reminds me of this one from a couple of years ago.  sadly turned out to be a hoax :(  http://halfblog.net/2011/11/29/the-telegraph-thought-councillor-thought-cloud-computing-depended-on-rainy-weather/
[08:16] <shauno> although just to make it funnier, it's kinda coming true anyway: http://www.siliconrepublic.com/careers/item/32190-hp-to-build-87-000-sq-foot
[08:16] <shauno> so we really do have clouds :)
[08:19] <BigRedS> Ireland does seem to be doing well for computing
[08:19] <BigRedS> it's as if all these US companies can *just* make it as far as Ireland when they're wanting a foothold in Europe
[08:22] <mungbean> tax innit
[08:22] <directhex> ireland offers competitive tax breaks
[08:22] <directhex> as does canada, hence so many tech companies around mtl
[08:22] <MartijnVdS> yeah, they also set up Dutch subsidiaries to move money around to avoid tax
[08:23] <directhex> there are few major companies which play fair on tax
[08:23] <AlanBell> all down to the the Dutch sandwich and double Irish legal tax scams for big companies
[08:24] <directhex> e.g. costa pays taxes, starbucks doesn't
[08:26] <SuperMatt> while I think it's clever how starbucks gets around tax, I wish they would diaf
[08:26] <zertyui> hello anyone there ?
[08:27] <mungbean> just all of us
[08:27] <SuperMatt> just not if you can hear me
[08:27] <SuperMatt> is there anyone home?
[08:27] <zertyui> is it pôssible to create a user with temporary access ?
[08:28] <mungbean> ubuntu has a guest account built in
[08:28] <mungbean> trashes the home dir after you log out
[08:28] <directhex> or Holiday Inn pays 2% tax, Premier Inn pays 36%
[08:28] <zertyui> means is it possible to create a root user with timestamps access ?
[08:28] <directhex> on last year's financials anyway
[08:28] <mungbean> directhex: bit of a disparity there
[08:28] <zertyui> #ubuntu-server
[08:28] <mungbean> is there a website that helps you ethically choose your company to spend on?
[08:30] <directhex> mungbean, no single-hit site. i use duedil.com to look up companies & compare pre-tax/post-tax profits on companies
[08:31] <mungbean> rather than wasting energies on hating the rich, there should be a bit more to help people make good decisions, e.g. phone apps
[08:31] <mungbean> and a bit of solidarity
[08:31] <mungbean> but starbucks is still full every time i go past their overpriced establishments
[08:32] <JamesTait> Good morning all, happy Get Out of the Dog House Day! :-D
[08:32] <christel> JamesTait: you will never get out of the dog house darling...
[08:32] <christel> <3
[08:32] <christel> (morning all)
[08:32] <bigcalm> Good morning christel :)
[08:32] <JamesTait> christel, aww, :(
[08:32] <directhex> mungbean, a *lot* of people believe that if a tax dodge is legal, then you shouldn't in any way express disapproval of the company using it e.g. by buying elsewhere
[08:33] <directhex> saying "buy costa not starbucks because taxes" is a quick way to start a forum argument
[08:33] <christel> hiya bigcalm :)
[08:35] <directhex> costa's tax bill is high enough to pay for 2 large secondary schools with staff, facilities, etc. that's the kind of tangible measure for people - if starbucks paid taxes, that'd pay for 4000 pupils' education
[08:35] <shauno> tax breaks are odd.  I think most of us only dislike them because they don't work for us.  if I had the choice to pay half the income tax I do, you can bet I'd leap at it
[08:35] <directhex> shauno, tax breaks are part of a race to the bottom, which is dangerous, but sitting them out is harmful
[08:36] <directhex> there's a reason why the uk games industry is in the toilet and the canadian game industry is ascendant - companies set up studios there due to heavy tax breaks
[08:36] <directhex> tl;dr: everyone loses and we're all going to turn into somalia
[08:36] <shauno> and then stick their european arm here because we won't spoil that for them
[08:40] <shauno> it's a popular gripe, but I'm seeing it from the opposite side.  I work at the european HQ of an american company.  except we were bought out by a french company a few years back, so we now have a very uncertain future
[08:40] <shauno> they lose the tax break, we lose jobs
[08:53] <mungbean> directhex: thats strange. any company dodging tax means we all pay more in the long run
[08:53] <mungbean> not really much to discuss :D
[08:53] <directhex> mungbean, "we all" doesn't matter. only shareholders matter
[08:54] <directhex> and shareholders aren't using public services anyway - private jet, private schools
[08:55] <shauno> or more to the point; the shareholders aren't in the UK, what do they care?
[08:55] <mungbean> you are probably a shareholder of most of these companies indirectly by virtue of your pension
[08:57] <mungbean> forgetting to bring your phone to work..feel lost :(
[08:57] <neuro> instead of punishing or vilifying the companies who are only acting in the best interests of their employees, customers and (if applicable) shareholders, by maximising profits through legal means so that they remain a going concern, why not try and punish/vilify the politicians/legislators who put the tax loopholes in there in the first place?
[08:58] <MartijnVdS> neuro++
[08:58] <BigRedS> If you don't want to be surprised by your tax income you really should have a simple tax system
[08:58] <mungbean> " who are only acting in the best interests of their employees,"
[08:58] <MartijnVdS> or no income
[08:58] <mungbean> non-profits seem to do OK
[08:58] <BigRedS> I'm not sure we're *that* bad yet :)
[09:06] <MooDoo> pwd
[09:06] <mungbean> /home/moodoo
[09:14] <SuperMatt> /home/matthew
[09:14] <SuperMatt> boo :(
[09:15] <MartijnVdS> moo?
[09:15] <SuperMatt> I was hoping I was running from something fun like /home/matthew/Videos/.porn
[09:15] <neuro> /storage/l5r881/d4/p1/cryp/neuro
[09:15] <directhex> /data/Media/Videos/Adult
[09:15] <directhex> why hide behind dot files?
[09:16] <MartijnVdS> directhex: maybe his employer doesn't like adult-themed content?
[09:16] <directhex> weirdos
[09:16] <neuro> why would you download/store/view adult material at a workplace?
[09:17] <mungbean> i should ask the legal guy i saw downloading the most bizarre stuff once
[09:17] <mungbean> while i was tailing the squid logs
[09:17] <MartijnVdS> neuro: well there's this company I used to share an office with.. who checked their clients' websites
[09:17] <mungbean> he was sitting yards away
[09:17] <neuro> ha
[09:17] <neuro> i had almost exactly the same thing happen
[09:17] <MartijnVdS> neuro: they processed credit cards for, among other things, adult sites :)
[09:17] <neuro> happened to check squid logs
[09:17] <neuro> noticed "dodgy" thing happening
[09:18] <directhex> one of the test sites for Moonlight was a "playboy 100 year history" site implemented in silverlight
[09:18] <neuro> and i'd implemented an staticly-assigned-IP-to-user mapping system
[09:18] <neuro> so knew immediately who it was
[09:18] <mungbean> i won't even repeat what i saw
[09:18] <neuro> phoned the guy up at his desk on the other side of the building
[09:18] <neuro> "um, mate, give the porn a chuck"
[09:18] <neuro> "wh whaa eh no wha no eh?"
[09:18] <mungbean> the guy was going through the process of trying to adopt a child too :-\
[09:18] <MartijnVdS> neuro: "U wot m8"
[09:19] <neuro> he did cop to it and apologised profusely
[09:19] <neuro> i think he was bricking it i was going to dob him in to his manager
[09:20] <neuro> i told him, look, as far as i'm concerned, you've been a t*t, just don't do it again
[09:20] <directhex> i reckon i could take our IT manager in a fight, so i don't fear that jackass
[09:20] <neuro> tho at $that_employer{client}, i was there when a senior manager was taken into custody
[09:20] <neuro> for kiddie stuff on his work computer
[09:20] <neuro> *shiver*
[09:21] <neuro> could have been worse, i might have actually been tasked to sort the guy's computer out
[09:21] <neuro> didn't envy that person their job
[09:23] <shauno> detol+magnets :/
[09:24] <mungbean> eye bleach
[09:25] <popey> friend of mine runs a computer repair company, plod came round and handed him a cd, said he is obliged to boot every machine that comes in with that cd. it reports a number from 1-10. if it's above 7, call cops
[09:25] <popey> it doesn't detail what it finds, just that it's found "stuff".
[09:26] <popey> It boots linux or freedos iirc, and runs a scanner which looks for known "bad stuff"
[09:26] <mungbean> script or binaries?
[09:26] <popey> the cops alluded to it being kiddie stuff it looks for
[09:26] <mungbean> "he is obliged"
[09:26] <popey> he's not allowed to tell customers that he runs that on their pc's
[09:26] <popey> yeah ⍨
[09:27] <mungbean> did you read the story about people getting their phone data harvested at teh uk border?
[09:27] <mungbean> by the authorities
[09:27] <popey> the trans-atlantic tap?
[09:27] <SuperMatt> I think that obligation sounds quite dubious
[09:28] <directhex> so much for flying cars, we ended up with neuromancer instead
[09:28] <mungbean> i would probably run teh CD tbh as a model citizen
[09:28] <SuperMatt> I'd be quite interested to see how it reacts to a freshly intalled machine
[09:28] <mungbean> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/10177765/Travellers-mobile-phone-data-seized-by-police-at-border.html
[09:28] <DJones> I was reading this yesterday http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-23268893 which sounds quite interesting
[09:28] <mungbean> i thought they meant pikeys but they mean people en route
[09:29] <popey> oh, not seen that mungbean
[09:29] <popey> they could get your email passwords etc
[09:30] <SuperMatt> I do seem to remember a story which something like this: woman reports husband for kiddie porn. All PCs seized. Images found of woman is coitus with dog. loloops
[09:30] <Laney> O_O
[09:31] <SuperMatt> yeah
[09:31] <SuperMatt> both arrested, of course
[09:31] <Laney> the dog?
[09:31] <popey> haha
[09:31] <popey> comedy gold
[09:31] <SuperMatt> no, the husband and the wife
[09:31] <popey> i dont think that needed an answer ☻
[09:31] <shauno> I think I preferred Laney's
[09:31] <directhex> clearly those photos should go onto a trucrypt'd usb stick
[09:32] <Laney> I sentence you to two years HARD WALKIES
[09:32] <Laney> NO WINALOT.
[09:32] <SuperMatt> y'know, if I was the kind of person to have suspicious stuff on my machine, despite the .pron folder, I wouldn't even *think* about taking it to get repaired
[09:32] <SuperMatt> I'd be all like "lolnope, this is getting destroyed"
[09:32] <mungbean> my wife knows my password
[09:32] <mungbean> no nasties on my pc
[09:33] <SuperMatt> I don't know why I hide my porn folder
[09:33] <mungbean> sharing passwords my SO, keeps u legit
[09:33] <SuperMatt> I mean, I'm 29. It's a fact of life
[09:33] <shauno> that border one is quite ick.  not sure I have a convenient way to wipe my phone either
[09:33] <mungbean> shauno: take a crappy niokia
[09:33] <mungbean> then secrete the real phone
[09:33]  * Laney winces
[09:34] <shauno> the mental picture that provides .. I think I'd rather not visit the UK
[09:34] <mungbean> there seems to be a price fixing on roof bars
[09:34] <popey> haha
[09:34] <mungbean> i mean how expensive?
[09:34] <popey> lovely subject seguey there
[09:34] <SuperMatt> y'know. I like the police, I had to deal with a couple of extremely nice ones this weekend. I think that it's government that's the issue with this stuff, and we need to pressure them to fix their policies
[09:34] <SuperMatt> the police are just having to deal with bad policy
[09:34] <mungbean> your rights are at their weakest at the border
[09:34] <DJones> There was a 1/2 hr programme on radio 4 this morning talking about privacy 9am "Privacy under pressure" Steve Hewlett's series on privacy begins with what our online behavior reveals
[09:34] <DJones> What I heard was quite interesting
[09:35] <popey> yeah, heard the intro, then started working
[09:35] <shauno> I thought it was disturbing enough last time I was stopped and asked what the purpose of my visit to the UK was.  and"dude, I'm british" didn't seem sufficient
[09:35] <SuperMatt> lol
[09:35] <mungbean> i like how the US say..."it's OK, we only collect on people we think with 51% certainty are foreign"
[09:36] <mungbean> as if that helps
[09:36] <SuperMatt> sure, if their name is Jesus Estafez, they're going to thinkk they're 51% foreign
[09:36] <DJones> It was as I was driving in so timed nicely, it was mostly talking about google & facebook along with smart phone apps and what data they have access to/collect and how the organisations use/don't use it and how they 'anonymise' it for release to advertisers
[09:37] <SuperMatt> and clearly this intelligence isn't working because we had a drummer hacked to death, and two bombs outside mosques.
[09:37] <SuperMatt> at the moment I feel we're more at threat in the UK by citizens
[09:37] <shauno> worth remembering in such conversations that most of us fit that description.  the US saying they only harvest foreigners doesn't make me feel one bit better
[09:37] <mungbean> SuperMatt: and if they wanted to get away, they would have
[09:38] <SuperMatt> well, I'm quite interested to know what has come of the mosque bombs and burnings
[09:38] <mungbean> i think the thugs are on summer hols atm
[09:38] <SuperMatt> because even though there weren't any casualties, I should hope they're being tracked down
[09:38] <SuperMatt> in fact, I want 24/7 news coverage
[09:39] <DJones> I was half expecting Alexander Hanff to get a mention on the programme
[09:41] <BigRedS> SuperMatt: perhaps there would have been more bad things without this intelligence?
[09:41] <SuperMatt> well I don't know
[09:42] <SuperMatt> if they're gonna use this kind of intelligence, I'd quite like to know what they're using it for, y'know
[09:42] <SuperMatt> to actually make me feel safer
[09:43] <BigRedS> they don't argue that it's there to make you feel safer, the argument is that it's there to make you safer
[09:43] <SuperMatt> at the moment, I feel I'm just being spied on, rather than kept safe
[09:43] <BigRedS> if they tell you what they're doing then they lose the secrecy and therefore the effectiveness
[09:43] <SuperMatt> but it's no secret our data is being watched
[09:44] <shauno> if we're meant to "just trust them", they need some framework/oversight/rules to make us trust them
[09:44] <BigRedS> no, but it never was
[09:44] <SuperMatt> so my point is: why not just tell us that "this data lead to this arrest"
[09:44] <BigRedS> you can't really have a domestic secret service and claim to believe thawt your data's not being inspected
[09:44] <BigRedS> SuperMatt: because the more data you make public about your intelligence gathering the easier it is to work out how you're doing it
[09:45] <BigRedS> and if you know how the spies are spying it's easier to evade them
[09:45] <SuperMatt> it doesn't have to be exact, I'd just like to see "using online intelligence, today x people were arrest for conspiring to y"
[09:46] <mungbean> is it revleaed in court?
[09:46] <BigRedS> I'd imagine not
[09:46] <SuperMatt> I don't know
[09:47] <BigRedS> I'd have thought you use secret data to identify people, then try to find enough publically-available intelligence to convict them
[09:47] <directhex> urgh. it is possible that the homehub 4 is worse than the homehub 3
[09:47] <BigRedS> since, again, you don't want anyone to know about your mechanisms
[09:47] <SuperMatt> true
[09:48] <shauno> that's how most of these work.  data obtained via sketchy methods isnt' admissable.  but it doesn't need to be.  it just needs to narrow down a large suspect pool to a narrow suspect pool so that they have the manpower to deal with it properly from there
[09:49] <shauno> they're not going to use "regularly visits xyz jihadist website(s)" as evidence.  because it's not.  but it's a helluva red flag
[09:49] <BigRedS> yeah, 'knowing' and 'proving' are two pretty distinct steps, and they apparently generally come in that order
[09:50] <mungbean> i'm still a bit uneasy about getting fingered for a crime by virtue of my phone and oyster card proving i was in the vicinity
[09:51] <SuperMatt> me too
[09:52] <SuperMatt> I'm getting a bit paranoid because I run my own email server. If the police said to me "let's see what you have on there" I could say no, but then people will ask "why are you hiding your stuff?"
[09:52] <mungbean> also, that there are things we could say 5yrs ago that are considered illegal now
[09:52] <SuperMatt> yeah, like that kid in America. He said something in bad taste, even said "lol, j/k" afterwards, but he was arrested and only released on $500,000 bail
[09:52] <SuperMatt> that's an abuse of power
[09:53] <directhex> yeah, well, "justice" in america ia a funny thing
[09:53] <directhex> as in "it's a punchline in jokes. otherwise, police state!"
[09:53] <SuperMatt> the goddamn child hadn't done anything wrong
[09:53] <popey> SuperMatt: is your mail server totally under your control or is it a vps?
[09:53] <SuperMatt> it's a vps
[09:53] <popey> if it's a vps they dont even need to ask you
[09:53] <SuperMatt> I know
[09:54] <popey> they will ask your provider who wont tell you if they give the feds access
[09:54] <SuperMatt> but at least it's not with any of the big companies
[09:54] <SuperMatt> it's a UK company
[09:54] <SuperMatt> so I'm feeling a little more secure
[09:54] <popey> hah
[09:54] <popey> wat
[09:54] <SuperMatt> at least I can't get accessed by american authorities ;)
[09:55] <mungbean> http://www.linkedin.com/jobs?viewJob=&jobId=6225673&trk=jobs_seeking_view_job&goback=%2Evjs_6312536_*2_*2_*2_false_*2_*2
[09:55] <mungbean> linaro seeking ubuntu heavy sysadmin
[09:56] <shauno> I'd hope the vps provider would at least have the spine to ask for a warrant
[09:57] <SuperMatt> me too
[09:58] <SuperMatt> If they have a warrant they can do whatever they like, because then a judge has been involved
[09:58] <SuperMatt> which means evidence has already been presented
[09:58] <SuperMatt> so I've probably done something wrong already
[09:58] <SuperMatt> but if I'm not with amazon or rackspace, I can be mostly certain I'm not being backdoored somehow
[09:58] <BigRedS> er
[09:59] <popey> i think you're being incredibly naive
[09:59] <popey> -typo
[09:59] <BigRedS> it depends what you mean by 'backdoored' but it would be trivial for us to monitor all traffic in and out of any machine
[10:00] <BigRedS> (any machine we host)
[10:00] <BigRedS> we don't, obviously, but there's no technical difficulty in doing it
[10:02] <SuperMatt> of course anyone truly wanting to spy will just watch the packets as the fly over the copper
[10:02] <mungbean> encrypted
[10:02] <shauno> isnt'at that basically what they're being accused of?  just slurping traffic en-masse
[10:03] <mungbean> although i read something about man-in the middle SSL done at ISP level, but not sure if just FUD, i mean , you'd know wouldn't you?
[10:03] <mungbean> if you can't end to end encrypt without knowing then the encryption system would be broken?
[10:04] <BigRedS> if it's a VPS you can just read the keys off the VM
[10:05] <shauno> depends what they have where.  our ssl gets mitm'd at work.  the only real indication is that if you remove zscaler's CA cert, everything breaks
[10:05] <BigRedS> yeah, I meant more when you've got a VPS and wish to communicate in secret
[10:06] <shauno> on something like the NSA's scale, what's the difference?  you have to trust they don't have access to any of the CAs you trust
[10:06] <mungbean> http://www.zdnet.com/how-the-nsa-and-your-boss-can-intercept-and-break-ssl-7000016573/
[10:06] <BigRedS> shauno: not much
[10:07] <mungbean> "The SSL proxy intercepts traffic between your computer and the Internet. When you surf to a "secure" site, it, and not your browser, get the real Web server certificate and handles setting up a perfectly good SSL connection between it and the Web server. The proxy then sends you a digital certificate, which looks like the Web server's certificate, and sets up a "secure" connection between your browser and the proxy."
[10:08] <shauno> that's what all the noise was last year about a few CA roots being untrustworthy
[10:08] <neuro> "surf" *snort*
[10:08] <mungbean> If your company has set up the proxy correctly you won't know anything is off because they'll have arranged to have the proxy's internal SSL certificate registered on your machine as a valid certificate.
[10:08] <mungbean> ^^ don't understand that line though
[10:09] <BigRedS> yeah, it only works if the machine you're using is controlled by the same people as the proxyu
[10:09] <mungbean> yeah
[10:09] <mungbean> so this is about your company
[10:09] <mungbean> rather than talktalk
[10:09] <mungbean> and your home pc
[10:09] <BigRedS> yeah
[10:09] <shauno> the proxy has to be able to re-sign the cert afterwards, which means it needs to be a CA you already trust
[10:09] <mungbean> so...sensationalist
[10:09] <mungbean> and FUD IMO
[10:10] <BigRedS> if you own everything all the way down to the hardware all this cert stuff works. But if you don't then it's feasible that someone else has modified it to not work transparently
[10:10] <shauno> obviously difficult for your isp etc, but not impossible to imagine the NSA have their fingers in any one of the roots that come with your browser
[10:11] <Laney> you can get browser extensions that detect such tinkering, which may help
[10:11] <shauno> eg, if any single one of these cooperates; http://www.mozilla.org/projects/security/certs/included/
[10:11] <Laney> ISTR something involving Chrome, Google and the middle east
[10:14] <shauno> on a completely different topic, has anyone had problems grabbing 'web only' content with get_iplayer?
[10:15] <BigRedS> Laney: Turkish CA that got compromised and gave out Google certs?
[10:16] <Laney> something like that
[10:16] <Laney> and then the browser was like "oh no, this isn't right" because the chain didn't match up
[10:16] <popey> shauno: something with a /programmes/ url?
[10:18] <shauno> get_iplayer --pid=p01cr4n2   is my current example
[10:18] <shauno> but I notice they do start with p0 instead of b0, which may indicate the same thing you mean
[10:19] <shauno> I can't check how they actually appear on iplayer atm, because I'm at work, and that connection goes through france
[10:22] <popey> this was discussed recently on the get_iplayer list
[10:24] <popey> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-23312579
[10:24] <neuro> huh
[10:24] <neuro> chrome doesn't support gopher://
[10:26] <shauno> does anything?  I think ff needs an addon for it now
[10:26] <neuro> i miss gopher
[10:27] <neuro> and wais
[10:27] <neuro> and archie
[10:27] <neuro> and veronica
[10:27] <neuro> simpler times
[10:30] <neuro> pulling down the latest version of mosaic netscape from SUNsite Northern Europe using fetch on a Mac LC in a uni lab ...
[10:32] <BigRedS> Anyone done anything with NFC tags and Android phones? Anything to bear in mind or is it as simple to do as it looks?
[10:33] <shauno> seem to recall Azelphur dabbling with that a while back
[10:33] <BigRedS> I presume there's an app I can download that'll let me make it do things near tags. Not sure exactly what yet...
[10:34] <popey> someone at our lug got a load made which took you to the lug website
[10:34] <popey> then started waving them under people's phones and they surprisngly just worked
[10:34] <popey> I tried to transfer a picture from one nexus 4 to another via nfc. it failed.. way too slow
[10:35] <shauno> that could be interesting.  get a load made up as beer coasters and wait
[10:36] <popey> his were stickers with the lug logo on
[10:38] <BigRedS> oh, right, so the tabs themselves are programmed?
[10:38] <popey> or something
[10:38] <popey> i dunno
[10:38] <BigRedS> I assumed they just sent a UUID and the phone had to be told what to do when it saw that
[10:38] <BigRedS> Hm, might have to read up on this
[10:40] <brobostigon> i noticed on my dads new lg tv, it had nfc in one corner, and you put your phone over it, and it downloaded the android software for said tv.
[10:41] <brobostigon> i used my nexus7, but same principal applies.
[10:44] <shauno> is it not something similar to how QR codes work?  they have a flag to describe what data they contain; url, phone number, vcartd, etc
[10:44] <brobostigon> in that case, i suspose so, yes.
[10:44] <BigRedS> oh, that'd make sense
[10:48] <shauno> http://nfcpy.readthedocs.org/en/latest/topics/ndef.html  has some crashcourse on the format.  completely different format to the ECI/SDD in QR, but same concept
[10:50] <BigRedS> ah, ta
[10:51] <shauno> didn't realise you could write new values into the tags.  finally explains the difference between that & rfid for me :)
[11:21] <christel> bigcalm: http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/celebrity/jk-rowling-recorded-two-dubstep-albums-as-burial-2013071575752 saw that and thought of you!
[11:25] <bigcalm> christel: amusing :)
[11:42] <christel> :)
[11:49]  * bigcalm totters off to do his daily exercise
[11:50] <MartijnVdS> bigcalm: a walk to the mail room and back? :P
[11:54] <bigcalm> Mail room? I work from home
[11:54] <bigcalm> Wii Fit +
[12:02] <popey> hi
[12:02] <popey> on a train on my ubuntu phone on 3g
[12:02] <popey> fun times
[12:02] <MartijnVdS> popey: is it stable?
[12:03] <popey> phone or 3g?
[12:05] <MartijnVdS> both
[12:05] <popey> arrived!
[12:05] <popey> seems.so
[12:09] <joshmyers> anyone here use openid before?
[12:11] <dwatkins> shame about his keyboard ;)
[12:30] <popey> Interesting, was I the only one to ping out?
[12:32] <shauno> popey: there was another 5 minutes before you, but otherwise, yes
[12:36] <popey> interesting
[12:44] <neuro> "We never want a long-standing customer like you to be unhappy. To resolve the complain, we can waive off the cancellation fee of £26.31 (VAT Exempt) for this number and will offer additional credit of £25.00. Please note that this decision is taken only based on your tenure with Vodafone."
[12:44] <neuro> ha
[12:46] <popey> ☻
[12:46] <neuro> note sure they realise what "tenure" means, but sod it, Free Money
[12:47] <knightwise> MHwhaaahaha ! :)
[12:47] <neuro> unless they're offering me a professorship or something
[12:47] <knightwise> just did a successfull export of my entire iTunes library and playlists into Ampache :)
[12:47] <neuro> if everything was well-tagged in advance, i'm not sure that sounds especially difficult :)
[12:48] <neuro> but you sound happy about it. Here, have a cookie.
[12:54] <davmor2> Morningish all
[12:54] <dvrr> Hiiiiii
[12:56] <dvrr> i have  proble  samba server shared folder could  you  help  me
[12:56] <mungbean> decision makers in my company don't want to allow areas of the wiki that are read-restricted to anyone less than $ALL
[12:56] <mungbean> stab stab stab
[12:58] <dvrr> please   could  you  resolve  samba  server  problem
[12:58] <BigRedS> dvrr: we can't help without knowing what the problem is
[12:58] <BigRedS> what's your specific question?
[12:58] <BigRedS> I, personally, probably can't help at all. But someone else might be able to
[13:00] <dvrr> i have  share folder
[13:01] <dvrr> i given  permission read/write
[13:01] <dvrr> how to  remove  delete  permission
[13:02] <dvrr> how to give read write permission not delete samba shared folder
[13:06] <SuperMatt> you can remove write permissions on the folder above it
[13:06] <diplo> dvrr:
[13:07] <dvrr> i have  given  read and write permissions samba share dolder  noe working  fine but  i want remove only delete
[13:08] <davmor2> Man hospitals are boring
[13:10] <MartijnVdS> davmor2: always take a Kindle :)
[13:10] <MartijnVdS> well, bring
[13:13] <Azelphur> shauno: it's simple
[13:13] <davmor2> MartijnVdS: I would if I had an interest in reading.  I'll maybe take a deck of cards and practise some tricks
[13:13] <MartijnVdS> davmor2: juggling balls!
[13:13] <dwatkins> I've started using my Kindla loads recently, since I put a range of different types of book on it.
[13:13] <dwatkins> *Kindle
[13:14] <dvrr> diplo: no i can't remove write permission only  remove  delete permission  it is  possable
[13:15] <davmor2> MartijnVdS: no if you drop one one of the nurses might fall on it cards are safer :)
[13:15] <dvrr> samba share folder
[13:34] <BigRedS> dwatkins: I've started using a FF plugin to send articles to mine, so whenever I happen across an interesting article of a paragraph or more I send it over
[13:35] <BigRedS> and then I've always got a fairly good selection of stuff to read
[13:38] <dwatkins> BigRedS: neat idea, I usually just e-mail myself a PDF
[13:40] <BigRedS> dwatkins: yeah, I find PDFs hard(er) to read on kindle than whatever it is that this plugin provides
[13:41] <BigRedS> it's from fivefilters.org
[14:46] <dwatkins> BigRedS: I agree, often the text is far too small, but I gather that's because they don't reflow when the font size is increased
[14:47] <BigRedS> yeah, it's a typesetting format, so it's not supposed to scale particularly well
[15:13] <dwatkins> looks like only some readers can do this: http://wiki.mobileread.com/wiki/PDF#Reflow
[15:32]  * AlanBell jumps on a train to London
[15:32] <AlanBell> o/ nigelb and popey
[15:32] <popey> yo
[15:33] <AlanBell> any suggested starting point?
[15:38] <davmor2> AlanBell: I would start at the trainstation that you arrive in London so be honest, it's hard to start anywhere else :P
[15:46] <popey> AlanBell: well, i am going to this mobile thing https://www.eventbrite.co.uk/org/1617757584?s=15853795 from 18:00 will ~21:30
[15:47] <popey> AlanBell: then probably on to https://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=kings+arms+roupell+street&hq=kings+arms+roupell+street&radius=15000&t=h&z=16
[15:47] <popey> as it's on the way back to waterloo
[15:50] <mungbean> windows cleartype giving me 6 useless options - which to choose?
[15:51] <mungbean> none of them readable..grrrr
[15:51] <MartijnVdS> mungbean: random :)
[15:51] <mungbean> seems not resettable
[16:06] <MartijnVdS> haha
[16:06] <MartijnVdS> http://tweakers.net/nieuws/90238/torvalds-brengt-release-candidate-linux-for-workgroups-311-kernel-uit.html
[16:06] <MartijnVdS> Codename of RC1 of Linux 3.11 is "Linux for Workgroups"
[16:16] <Azelphur> Does anyone here run Debian testing on their servers? how stable is it?
[16:17] <brobostigon> yes, i do, Azelphur
[16:17] <Azelphur> cool, hows that working for you?
[16:17] <brobostigon> very well.
[16:17] <Azelphur> good to hear :)
[16:17] <Azelphur> how long you had it running?
[16:18] <brobostigon> uptime?
[16:18] <MartijnVdS> time since install, probably
[16:18] <Azelphur> yea, time since install, just roughly
[16:18] <Azelphur> I have had problems with dist-upgrades and Ubuntu, so I like the idea of rolling release
[16:18] <brobostigon> about a year.
[16:18] <Azelphur> cool :)
[16:19] <Azelphur> yea, I'll take the plunge and go with Debian testing I think, I've played around with it in a VM and like it.
[16:20] <brobostigon> install two thingsd though, the apt bugs and apt changelog packages.
[16:20] <Azelphur> what do those do?
[16:20] <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: one shows the bugs reported on packages you're upgrading
[16:20] <MartijnVdS> the other shows changelogs
[16:21] <Azelphur> ah, cool
[16:21] <MartijnVdS> helps you stop the upgrade BEFORE it breaks your system
[16:21] <brobostigon> useful especially as it is rolling.
[16:21] <Azelphur> so when doing an upgrade, use those basically
[16:21] <Azelphur> yea
[16:21] <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: they're apt plugins
[16:21] <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: so they're used automagically
[16:21] <brobostigon> yep.
[16:21] <Azelphur> automagically, nice \o/
[16:22] <brobostigon> avoiding breakage.
[16:23] <Azelphur> my current install on my server is 11.10, it had a hard shutdown when the data center flooded (ny hurricane), so it doesn't boot properly now haha, hense the desire to reload ;)
[16:23] <Azelphur> but yea, rolling release should go nicely with me I think
[16:23] <brobostigon> but be careful as i said, with those packages within apt.
[16:24] <Azelphur> yea, once I get it up and running I'll give you a nudge so you can show me how those packages work
[16:24] <Azelphur> :)
[16:24] <brobostigon> prod anyone, those are comon packages.
[16:24] <brobostigon> common*
[16:25] <Azelphur> righto :)
[16:25] <brobostigon> :)
[16:45] <X98> hello
[17:09] <neuro> MartijnVdS: wow, i am slow
[17:10] <neuro> i just realised that linkedin invite from you was, you know, from you :P
[17:10] <MartijnVdS> neuro: hi :)
[17:11] <neuro> :)
[17:11] <neuro> I AM LOOKING AT UR PROFILES!
[17:11] <MartijnVdS> O NOES
[17:11] <neuro> (as you'll probably know tomorrow when you get the "hey, some idiots were looking at your profile" message)
[17:12] <MartijnVdS> neuro: I get those a lot, since $employer announced intentions to lay of a lot of people
[17:12] <neuro> ooft
[17:12] <neuro> i thought xs were doing well
[17:12] <MartijnVdS> new CEO with a track record of outsourcing
[17:12] <neuro> lovely
[17:12] <neuro> been there
[17:13] <MartijnVdS> Claims we're "inefficient" and "can't deliver on time", while we're the only department that does deliver on time
[17:13] <neuro> i had to train my outsourced replacements :P
[17:13] <MartijnVdS> I'm at the "their loss" stage ;)
[17:13] <neuro> lol
[17:13] <neuro> "Hey, they can do the reactive things you do. Bye."
[17:14] <neuro> I oversimplify, but still ...
[17:14] <MartijnVdS> neuro: yeah, but we're the "annoying coders".. we ask questions back :)
[17:14] <MartijnVdS> "Did you think of X?" "What happens if we do this new X with the old Y?"
[17:15] <neuro> my experience with outsourcing coders is the immediate effect of buyer's remorse once you find out the outsourced coders generally won't have a hope of matching the internal team's skills
[17:15] <MartijnVdS> neuro: yeah, we have a few people who've "been outsourced before" on the team
[17:16] <neuro> hmm, new email has arrived. "Help Crowdsource a Mission to Mars!" Um, no.
[17:17] <MartijnVdS> neuro: what if they want you to help pick people who should go on the first trip there?
[17:17] <neuro> /list #ubuntu-uk | mail -s "SRSLY, SEND THESE GUYS" marsmission@space.types
[17:17] <MartijnVdS> ಠ_ಠ
[17:18] <neuro> i've seen how things work on kickstarter, not sure i'd want a manned space mission to be funded in the same way
[17:18]  * peng42phone clickety clacks on a train
[17:19] <MartijnVdS> peng42phone: choo choo!
[17:19] <neuro> "UPDATE #47: Hey everyone, the new LOX recyc fast bleed system is almost ready, once we figure out why it keeps blowing up, but in other news, the T-shirts from funding tiers 3 upwards are shipping tomorrow! Yay!"
[17:20] <neuro> peng42phone: t-mobile. ew ;)
[17:20] <MartijnVdS> neuro: they give tiers names now
[17:20] <neuro> i know, i was kidding
[17:20] <peng42phone> MartijnVDS: almost, a slow diesel
[17:20] <MartijnVdS> neuro: "T-shirts from tiers MAJOR TOM and up are now shipping"
[17:20] <neuro> lol
[17:21] <MartijnVdS> neuro: (and the papers want to know whose shirt you wear..)
[17:22] <neuro> tiers ... "CAPRICORN ONE", "DUST DEVIL", "MAJOR TOM", "CARL SAGAN MEMORIAL STATION", "HOUSTON, WE'VE HAD A PROBLEM", "I SAY WE TAKE OFF AND NUKE THE SITE FROM ORBIT", "MAKE IT SO"
[17:23] <MartijnVdS> "Clavius Base"
[17:23] <neuro> TMA-1
[17:23] <MartijnVdS> exactly
[17:23] <peng42phone> "Memory alpha"?
[17:24]  * neuro cues up some waltz ...
[17:26] <neuro> ... eventually (after wrangling itunes into life)
[17:34]  * peng42phone waits at Preston
[17:34] <neuro> hehe, this is awesome
[17:34] <neuro> http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2013/jul/15/cameron-tweets-fake-iain-duncan-smith
[17:34] <neuro> whatever No. 10 intern runs Dave Cameron's twitter account linked to a fake Iain Duncan Smith account
[17:34] <neuro> whoooooops
[17:36] <MartijnVdS> intern executed?
[17:37] <neuro> ha
[17:37] <neuro> tut tut, someone just tried to auth to nickserv as me
[17:37] <MartijnVdS> maybe that same intern
[17:38] <neuro> lol
[17:38] <neuro> hope not, came from a comcast IP in washington state
[17:39] <MartijnVdS> .. or that's what MI[56] want you to believe
[17:43] <neuro> well that's what freenode reported the IP as ...
[17:45] <neuro> right, tesco delivery soon, time to clear out the fridge ;)
[17:50] <peng42phone> Hmph, standing room only
[19:56] <Azelphur> Is there a decent way of getting oracle java on Ubuntu?
[19:56] <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Java ?
[20:01] <Azelphur> seems like a manual install job since webupd8 has no java
[20:01] <ali1234> http://pastebin.com/4W4AwuY5 ಠ_ಠ
[20:02] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: Automatix reborn?
[20:02] <ali1234> yeah
[20:02] <MartijnVdS> where'd you find that, and can we kill it with fire?
[20:03] <ali1234> someone posted it on askubuntu with the question "why doesn't this script work?"
[20:03] <MartijnVdS> because it's wrong on so many levels
[20:03] <ali1234> i can only hope that it wasn't the script author
[20:03] <ali1234> if it was i feel sorry for anyone who runs it
[20:03] <MartijnVdS> last one's the kicker
[20:03] <MartijnVdS> "kingsoft office" from a server in China?