[04:06] <kaushal> Hi
[04:08] <kaushal> I have likewise-open application which is an authentication system for Windows AD and I am trying to configure ringswitcher. Does likewise-open support it?
[04:43] <alepot> help /cs
[07:08] <MooDoo> morning all
[07:10] <MartijnVdS> \o
[07:17] <diplo_> Morning all
[07:26] <ryiter> hello
[07:26] <ryiter> anyone ?
[07:26] <MartijnVdS> hi
[07:26] <MartijnVdS> !ask
[07:26] <ryiter> is it possible to do su - user -p  password in online?
[07:27] <ryiter> in one line
[07:29] <ryiter> anyone there ?
[07:30] <MartijnVdS> ryiter: I don't know what you mean?
[07:30] <MartijnVdS> !xy
[07:30] <MooDoo> MartijnVdS: he just wants to run su as a specific user and it ask for the password.
[07:30] <ryiter> i simply would like to change to an other user
[07:30] <MartijnVdS> MooDoo: but online?
[07:31] <ryiter> not online
[07:31] <MooDoo> in one line.
[07:31] <ryiter> in one line
[07:31] <MartijnVdS> ah
[07:31] <MooDoo> MartijnVdS: :p
[07:31] <ryiter> means i would like to su  to an other user
[07:31] <MartijnVdS> ryiter: su - user
[07:31] <ryiter> without using password
[07:31] <MartijnVdS> it'll ask for the password
[07:31] <MartijnVdS> otherwise you're going to have to use sudo
[07:31] <ryiter> well i don't want that it ask me for password
[07:31] <MartijnVdS> you can configure sudo to allow that
[07:32] <ryiter> that's why i said i would like to put the password like that su - user -p  password
[07:32] <MartijnVdS> you could probably do it with su and PAM configuration, but that's going to be hard & a lot of work & break every other upgrade
[07:32] <MartijnVdS> ryiter: su doesn't allow the password on the command line, because of security issues (other users could see it using 'ps')
[07:32] <ryiter> i m looking for a command in one line
[07:33] <MartijnVdS> ryiter: "sudo -u user -s -H" or "sudo -u user -i", probably
[07:33] <MartijnVdS> ryiter: and some editing of /etc/sudoers (please use visudo, it'll warn you if the file is not correct instead of making it impossible to use sudo)
[07:34] <MartijnVdS> ryiter: The manual page for sudoers ("man sudoers") should have examples to do that
[07:34] <ryiter> no
[07:34] <ryiter> you still don't understand my question
[07:34] <ryiter> i simply looking for one line command
[07:35] <MartijnVdS> ryiter: yes: sudo -u user -i
[07:35] <MartijnVdS> ryiter: but, you have to configure the system first.
[07:36] <MartijnVdS> there is no other way, because of security
[07:36] <ryiter> i still can't understand where is the security issue ?
[07:37] <MartijnVdS> ryiter: if you supply the password on the command line, another user could do "ps ax" and know the password
[07:37] <MartijnVdS> ryiter: that is why "su" does not have an option to specify the password on the command line
[07:37] <TheOpenSourcerer> It will also live in your .bash_history in plaintext too I guess for sometime at least.
[07:37] <ryiter> don't care i simply would like to check
[07:37] <MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: that, too
[07:38] <TheOpenSourcerer> MartijnVdS: Still not tested the free beer yet ;-)
[07:38] <TheOpenSourcerer> Will try and collect it today
[07:38] <MartijnVdS> ryiter: what's the end goal? checking the password? doing things as the other user?
[07:38] <MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: yay :)
[07:38] <ryiter> end of the goal is just for try
[07:38] <ryiter> simply
[07:39] <MartijnVdS> try what?
[07:39] <MartijnVdS> try to see if the password is correct?
[07:40] <ryiter> that will simplify lots of thing
[07:40] <ryiter> i found something on the net
[07:40] <ryiter> echo <password> | sud -  user
[07:41] <MartijnVdS> ryiter: can you explain the problem you're solving, instead of just the one solution you've already thought of?
[07:41] <ryiter> but not working
[07:41] <ryiter> i simply would like to create an alias
[07:41] <ryiter> with that
[07:41] <ryiter> that's all
[07:41] <MartijnVdS> ryiter: that doesn't answer my question
[07:41] <MartijnVdS> what problem are you solving that requires you to do this?
[07:42] <MartijnVdS> because really what you seem to want is a proper "sudo" configuration so you can "be" (run programs as) the other user for a while
[07:42] <ryiter> the problem is i got a list of users on :my system i don't want to search for the password each time
[07:43] <MartijnVdS> ryiter: so you configure sudo (through /etc/sudoers) to let you use your own password (or no password) instead
[07:43] <MartijnVdS> ryiter: problem solved
[07:43] <ryiter> as i don't have access on /etc/sudoers
[07:43] <ryiter> i simply looking to create an alias
[07:43] <ryiter> do you get ?
[07:44] <MartijnVdS> ryiter: in /etc/sudoers, put a line:
[07:44] <ryiter> i know that
[07:44] <ryiter> but don't have access on /etc/sudoers  permission denied
[07:44] <MartijnVdS> ryiter: sudo visudo
[07:45] <ryiter> but don't have access on /etc/sudoers  permission denied
[07:45] <MartijnVdS> it will open an editor to edit sudoers for you
[07:45] <ryiter> MartijnVdS:
[07:45] <ryiter> but don't have access on /etc/sudoers  permission denied
[07:45] <MartijnVdS> ryiter: I saw your line the first time
[07:46] <ryiter> so i can't visudo anything
[07:46] <TheOpenSourcerer> Then you are probably not in the sudo group
[07:46] <MartijnVdS> ryiter: sudo visudo doesn't work either?
[07:46] <ryiter> yes of course
[07:46] <ryiter> i will never work
[07:46] <TheOpenSourcerer> You do not have the authourity.
[07:46] <ryiter> one solution for my problem
[07:46] <ryiter> is simply to create an alias with putting the passsword in clair
[07:47] <ryiter> that's all
[07:47] <MartijnVdS> that's impossible
[07:47] <MartijnVdS> because none of the programs that allow you to log in accept a password on the commandline or on stdin
[07:47] <TheOpenSourcerer> You will need to boot your machine from a CD and mount / so you can edit /etc/group.
[07:47] <ryiter> of course it should be possible
[07:47] <ryiter> impossible not french
[07:47] <MartijnVdS> ryiter: except it's not, because that would create security issues
[07:47] <TheOpenSourcerer> Then you will be able to edit /etc/group and /etc/sudoers
[07:48] <TheOpenSourcerer> If the administrator did not give you sudo access then maybe they do not want you to do these things...
[07:49] <ryiter> there is also an other solution maybe i m not sure
[07:49] <neuro> lol
[07:49] <neuro> 'ning all
[07:49] <ryiter> is it possible to generate a local key  and switch all user without password
[07:50] <TheOpenSourcerer> Linux is intended to be a *secure* system...
[07:50] <neuro> ryiter: what problem are you trying to solve here?
[07:50] <MartijnVdS> !xy | ryiter
[07:50] <neuro> i don't understand "switch all user"
[07:51] <brobostigon> good morning everyone,
[07:51] <neuro> hey brobo
[07:51] <TheOpenSourcerer> You brobostigon sanity at last!
[07:52] <MartijnVdS> oh hi TheOpenSourcerer 8-)
[07:52] <MartijnVdS> and good morning brobostigon
[07:52] <brobostigon> morning neuro, TheOpenSourcerer and MartijnVdS
[07:52] <neuro> YOU! BROBOSTIGON! SANITY! :)
[07:52] <MartijnVdS> neuro: NAO!
[07:52] <brobostigon> me sane, if only.
[07:52] <neuro> YOU! MARTIJN! YAR!
[07:52] <ryiter> i allready mentied X Y Z
[07:53]  * TheOpenSourcerer needs moar coffee.
[07:53] <ryiter> simply
[07:53]  * brobostigon shares some of his special coffee.
[07:53] <MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: Dark Roast?
[07:53] <ryiter> i would like to authentificate to an user in one line
[07:53] <MartijnVdS> ryiter: sudo -u user
[07:53] <MartijnVdS> +-i
[07:54] <ryiter> i m looking something like this : su - userboss --password mypersopassword
[07:54] <neuro> doesn't work like that
[07:54] <neuro> and leaving passwords lying around in shell history is kinda stupid
[07:54] <ryiter> when i copy and paste this line : su - userboss --password mypersopassword
[07:54] <MartijnVdS> ryiter: like we told you: su can't do that, sudo CAN be configured to do something like that
[07:54] <ryiter> i simply would like to switch to user userboss
[07:55] <ryiter> without asking me for passsword
[07:55] <neuro> only way i can think of is ssh key
[07:55] <neuro> ssh blah@localhost
[07:55] <ryiter> you are correct
[07:55] <neuro> with a passwordless key
[07:55] <ryiter> but can we ssh key in local
[07:55] <neuro> of course
[07:55] <ryiter> once you are in the terminal
[07:56] <ryiter> can you remember what are the command i have to generate for that ?
[07:56] <neuro> what's the big deal about typing in a password, really?
[07:56] <neuro> google for generate ssh key
[07:56] <ryiter> i got a list of user on my system
[07:57] <ryiter> i don't want to look for the password each time
[07:57] <MartijnVdS> ryiter: "sudo -i -u userboss" + in /etc/sudoers: "user ALL = (userboss) ALL" (I think)
[07:57] <neuro> on *your* system
[07:57] <ryiter> kill me lots of time
[07:57] <neuro> why do you care about the passwords if it's *your* system
[07:57] <neuro> don't you have root?
[07:57] <ryiter> it 's not my own system
[07:57] <ryiter> it is an shared system
[07:57] <TheOpenSourcerer> neuro: He is not in the sudo group by the sounds of things.
[07:58]  * TheOpenSourcerer runs away.
[07:58] <neuro> ryiter: so basically you're just wanting to hack into other accounts on a shared host
[07:58] <ryiter> there is no hack
[07:58] <MartijnVdS> neuro: these are not the droids you're looking for
[07:58] <neuro> if you do not have any form of superuser credentials, why would you need access to other people's accounts?
[07:59] <MartijnVdS> yeah, you could email the sysadmin and ASK him for the sudoers access
[07:59] <neuro> :)
[07:59] <MartijnVdS> it's a people problem :P
[07:59] <ryiter> i  m looking something technically
[07:59] <neuro> it sounds like you're looking something hacky
[07:59] <ryiter> i m know how to troubleshoot in otherwaysq
[08:00] <ryiter> for now i simply looking the exact answer for my question
[08:00] <MartijnVdS> so it's for a class?
[08:00] <MartijnVdS> schoolwork?
[08:00] <neuro> i can't think of a valid reason for a non-sysadmin to require access to other user's accounts and their passwords
[08:00] <neuro> if anything, i think this is a vindication for, you know, passwords
[08:01] <ryiter> don't try to do politics please
[08:01] <neuro> i do not think that word means what you think it means
[08:01] <neuro> seriously
[08:01] <neuro> if you explain the "why"
[08:01] <neuro> we can probably explain the "how"
[08:02] <neuro> it's called two-way trust
[08:02] <neuro> you first
[08:02] <ryiter> i explain here everything
[08:02] <neuro> no, you really haven't
[08:02] <ryiter> i m not good for doing politics
[08:03] <neuro> you're on a shared system and you want to log in as other users without having to type their password
[08:03] <neuro> and you already have a list of passwords
[08:03] <neuro> hmmmmm
[08:03] <neuro> context is everything
[08:03] <ryiter> well i m leaving i I have exhausted all my energy
[08:04] <neuro> crazy french hacker types
[08:05] <TheOpenSourcerer> dork.
[08:07] <MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: no, "Dorque"
[08:07] <neuro> french dork apparently connecting from an environmental services company in Saint-Maurice
[08:07] <neuro> sorry, dorqué
[08:09] <neuro> he sounded like either the world's worst hacker, or the world's worst junior sysadmin
[08:09] <TheOpenSourcerer> A sysadmin without sudo... hmm.
[08:10] <neuro> with a list of passwords
[08:11] <TheOpenSourcerer> lol: http://foaas.herokuapp.com/ <<< NSFW
[08:14] <hd5770> :( i need a job
[08:14] <MartijnVdS> hd5770: what kind?
[08:14] <TheOpenSourcerer> hd5770: What are your skills?
[08:14] <neuro> huh ... http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sp%C3%A9cial:Contributions/194.250.34.254
[08:15] <neuro> (wiki fr edit history from ryiter's IP ...)
[08:17] <neuro> hd5770: i believe a variety of fast food outlets are always hiring ...
[08:17]  * neuro runs
[08:20] <Monotoko> today is going to fun... our ol' Windows 2000 cluster died :(
[08:20] <neuro> *nice*
[08:21] <MartijnVdS> Monotoko: good luck :)
[08:31] <JamesTait> Good morning all, happy International Criminal Justice Day! :-D
[08:32] <MartijnVdS> JamesTait: For great justice!
[08:32] <JamesTait> MartijnVdS, YES!
[08:32] <neuro> hurrah, vigilantes ahoy!
[08:32] <JamesTait> MartijnVdS++
[08:32] <MartijnVdS> neuro: like ryiter you mean?
[08:32] <neuro> lol
[08:32]  * JamesTait chuckles.
[08:33] <neuro> nah, he was just an awkward french poorly-skilled hacker
[08:33] <JamesTait> That made a very interesting read first thing in the morning.
[08:33] <neuro> actually, s/hacker/idiot/
[08:33] <MartijnVdS> neuro: nah, just misguided
[08:34]  * TheOpenSourcerer has free beer!
[08:34] <MartijnVdS> \o/
[08:34] <TheOpenSourcerer> :-D
[08:34] <MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: with coffee in it
[08:34] <TheOpenSourcerer> lol
[08:35] <MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: really.. Dark Roast is made with coffee
[08:35] <TheOpenSourcerer> Will need to take it home and refrigerate it before tasting.
[08:37] <MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: is the weather still sunny & hot?
[08:37] <TheOpenSourcerer> very MartijnVdS
[08:37] <brobostigon> yes.
[08:38] <MartijnVdS> then I suggest you try "Broeders" first, once it's cooled :)
[08:38] <brobostigon> 28c this afternoon, humid, huge UV levels, huge pollen levels,
[08:38] <TheOpenSourcerer> Next Wed the BBC are predicting 35'
[08:39] <MartijnVdS> yeah we have similar predictions
[08:39] <brobostigon> ouch
[08:39] <MartijnVdS> but we have the nice cooling influence of the North Sea
[08:39] <MartijnVdS> so it's only going to be 31
[08:39] <MartijnVdS> (°C)
[08:40] <brobostigon> i am falling apart already in this heat, never mind another 10c ontop of it.
[08:41] <neuro> 19ºC up here \o/
[08:41] <neuro> my house is measurably cooler today, thank god
[08:41] <MartijnVdS> brobostigon: http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B008CNQEWA
[08:42] <brobostigon> £649, ouch.
[08:42] <MartijnVdS> brobostigon: but probably way overkill too
[08:42] <brobostigon> probably.
[08:43] <MartijnVdS> 10000 BTU/hr ~= 3KW
[08:44] <neuro> There are fields, Neo, endless fields, where humans are no longer born, they are grown.
[08:51] <MattJ> For some reason I feel cooler today, but the thermometer says it's the same temperature as yesterday...
[08:51] <MattJ> humidity 1% down
[08:51] <MartijnVdS> MattJ: that's because you ARE cooler!
[08:51] <MattJ> \o/
[08:51] <MartijnVdS> MattJ: but not hotter
[08:51] <MartijnVdS> it's xor
[08:55]  * MattJ tries to decide what to do for a NAS
[08:56] <dwatkins> I decided to give up messing around with software and got a Synology DS413j
[08:57]  * MooDoo uses a netgear nas duo but is also looking at a synology box
[08:58] <MattJ> Encryption an option with either?
[08:58] <MartijnVdS> I'm on my second Synology, it's great
[08:58] <MartijnVdS> MattJ: higher-end Synologies can encrypt
[08:58] <neuro> i have two readynas NV+ here (1x v1, 1x v2), but getting a ds413j for esxi storage in a couple of weeks
[08:58] <dwatkins> I assume you'll just use gigabit to connect to it, neuro,
[08:58] <neuro> yah
[08:59]  * popey hugs his HP Microserver with 12x2TB
[08:59]  * popey also hugs btrfs
[08:59] <neuro> wait, what?
[08:59] <popey> 4 internal, 8 in an extrnal array
[08:59] <neuro> how did you fit 12 disks in a 4 disk cha... oh ok
[08:59] <MattJ> popey, you had a drobo once, didn't you?
[08:59] <popey> I did
[08:59] <popey> never again
[08:59] <MattJ> Ok :)
[08:59] <popey> Unless I switched completely to OSX
[08:59] <popey> Then I may consider it.
[09:00] <MattJ> That the only issue? They have ethernet models, don't they?
[09:00] <MattJ> which I would hope use some standard protocol
[09:00] <dwatkins> Time Machine is very slow over a network.
[09:00] <MattJ> (standard protocols \o/)
[09:00] <neuro> dwatkins: it's not that bad
[09:00] <popey> the main issues... the on-disk format is proprietary.
[09:00] <MattJ> Ouch
[09:00] <popey> (as with most raid controllers)
[09:01] <MattJ> I just want something simple :( (but encrypted, oops)
[09:01] <popey> so if your drobo dies, you have to get another one to access the data
[09:01] <MartijnVdS> the Synology uses standard dm-raid
[09:01] <MartijnVdS> or md-raid
[09:01] <MartijnVdS> whatever is the software raid in the linux kernel
[09:01] <MartijnVdS> + lvm
[09:01] <dwatkins> neuro: I suspect there's something for which I need to reinstall, as I've seen loads of threads about Time Machine getting slow after upgrading, when using wifi or ethernet
[09:01] <popey> thats very nice!
[09:01] <neuro> dwatkins: this laptop is doing a time machine backup right now
[09:01] <neuro> pushing 8-10MB/s over 802.11n
[09:01] <popey> i do time machine from macbook pro over wifi to my hp microserver
[09:02] <neuro> to a USB2 RAID1 array on a mac mini connected to gigabit
[09:02] <MartijnVdS> neuro: meanwhile you're also using it to boil some water for tea? :)
[09:02] <neuro> noe
[09:02] <dwatkins> yeah, I think my Macbook Pro needs fixing, as I get 2 MB/s backing up via wifi.
[09:02] <neuro> nope
[09:02] <popey> my microserver went nuts the other day, disks went read-only
[09:02] <popey> rebooted and it's all fine, no data loss
[09:02] <neuro> dwatkins: or maybe better wifi ap?
[09:02]  * popey hugs btrfs
[09:02] <neuro> popey: you can keep your experimental file system, ta :)
[09:02] <neuro> for now, anyway
[09:02] <dwatkins> neuro: perhaps, but I get 10 MB/s just copyhing files with it
[09:03] <MartijnVdS> popey: I've found btrfs on spinning rust to be excruciatingly slow
[09:03] <MartijnVdS> popey: looong access times
[09:03] <popey> interesting
[09:03] <neuro> dwatkins: lots of small files?  lots of tiny files + hard links + higher latency = hmmmmm
[09:03] <dwatkins> neuro: perhaps, yes
[09:03] <neuro> that's why i stopped doing rsnapshot to an nfs mount
[09:04] <popey> heh
[09:04] <popey> i do rsnapshot but over ssh
[09:04] <neuro> plugged in 2 1TB USB disks, did some md raid1 magic and pointed rsnapshot there instead
[09:04] <neuro> popey: you mean you pull backup data over ssh to a local disk target?
[09:04] <popey> yes
[09:04] <neuro> yeah, that's what i do
[09:04] <neuro> but before that it was an nfs mounted target
[09:05] <neuro> and the hard links were causing mayhem
[09:05] <neuro> esp for the initial cp -al and the deletes later
[09:05] <neuro> maildirs + nfs = ew
[09:05] <popey> yeah, my rsnapshot takes 1.5 hours to do the rm and the cp -al
[09:05] <popey> maybe longer
[09:06] <neuro> are you doing the lazy delete?
[09:06] <popey> [01/Jul/2013:18:00:01] /bin/rm -rf /srv/rsnapshot/hourly.5/
[09:06] <popey> [01/Jul/2013:19:15:23] mv /srv/rsnapshot/hourly.4/ /srv/rsnapshot/hourly.5/
[09:06] <hd5770> supa duppa skills
[09:06] <popey> wossat?
[09:06] <popey> cp -al takes 40 mins
[09:06] <neuro> popey: use_lazy_deletes
[09:06]  * popey googles
[09:07] <neuro> it'll move the oldest directory to [interval_name].delete
[09:07] <neuro> and when the copying and rsyncing is finished, it removes the pid file, *then* does the delete
[09:07] <popey> oh that sounds fun
[09:07] <popey> will try that now. i haven't re-enabled rsnapshot cron jobs after the disk fun the other day, will do now
[09:07] <neuro> so if another rsnapshot process comes along, it won't get blocked due to a pid hanging around
[09:07] <popey> thanks muchly
[09:08] <neuro> handy if your jobs are running up against your intervals
[09:08] <popey> yeah, i get that a lot
[09:08] <popey> because the jobs always overrun
[09:08] <neuro> exactly
[09:08] <popey> but I dont necessarily want to let them stomp on eachother do I?
[09:08] <neuro> well they won't
[09:08] <neuro> the directory to be deleted gets uniquely named
[09:08] <popey> but on a slow system could you end up with a load of to be deleted pid'ed directories?
[09:09] <neuro> so it'll move daily.5 to delete.15819 or something
[09:09] <neuro> sure
[09:09] <neuro> but at least your backup jobs will still be running
[09:09] <hd5770> MartijnVdS one that gives me money
[09:09] <popey> k, will give that a punt, thanks!
[09:09] <hd5770> TheOpenSourcerer basic admin i guess
[09:09] <TheOpenSourcerer> http://www.theopensourcerer.com/2013/07/ubuntu-coaster-and-other-animals/
[09:09] <neuro> popey: np
[09:10] <neuro> hd5770: whereabouts are you based?
[09:10] <hd5770> Wales!
[09:10] <hd5770> cardifff
[09:10] <neuro> ah well :)
[09:10] <hd5770> i got a car
[09:10] <neuro> $work is probably hiring soon
[09:10] <hd5770> i can drug run for some one
[09:11] <hd5770> $work ?
[09:11] <neuro> but $work is in oxfordshire (note that I am not!)
[09:11] <neuro> $work
[09:11] <neuro> as in $employer
[09:12] <popey> hah, excellent TheOpenSourcerer
[09:12] <neuro> probably gonna hire a senior php dev, and a junior dev/sysadmin
[09:12] <neuro> slash office it bod
[09:12] <neuro> slash coffee monkey
[09:13] <hd5770> lol
[09:13]  * BigRedS cringes at "dev/sysadmin"
[09:13] <BigRedS> uh, despite being one
[09:13] <neuro> i know i know
[09:13] <MartijnVdS> sys/devadmin
[09:13] <neuro> it's the worst kind of devops
[09:13] <BigRedS> but really by "dev" is just having time dedicated to sysadmin scripts
[09:13] <neuro> get a junior in to do some minor coding and some sysadmin/local IT
[09:13] <TheOpenSourcerer> popey: All this hot weather keeps making think of a long lunch with beer in the sun... AlanBell? czajkowski?
[09:14] <neuro> TheOpenSourcerer: damn you guys for being close to each other in meatspace!
[09:14] <christel> mmmbeer.
[09:14] <TheOpenSourcerer> You are not allowed chris
[09:14] <neuro> this is the only really annoying thing about working from home, long lunches with beers in the sun make me look like a creep sitting along in the beer garden :)
[09:14] <TheOpenSourcerer> christel:
[09:15] <christel> see, you're such a hater :(
[09:15] <TheOpenSourcerer> ^--^ Hope you are feeling better today?
[09:15] <diplo> TheOpenSourcerer: Hope my sone gets to do stuff like that at school
[09:15] <christel> i never get invited to ANYTHING ANYMORE :P
[09:15] <christel> TheOpenSourcerer: yah, feeling good :)
[09:15] <TheOpenSourcerer> Drop the sprog and you can come out again ;-)
[09:15] <dwatkins> christel: neither do I, but that might be due to living 450 miles north of London ;)
[09:15] <neuro> i'm actually thinking IT Dogsbody would be a better role description :D
[09:16] <christel> hehe
[09:16] <neuro> dwatkins: what, due north? are you in the north sea? :)
[09:16] <dwatkins> neuro: :-p
[09:16]  * neuro giggles
[09:16]  * dwatkins lives in Edinburgh and neuro knows it
[09:16] <neuro> aye
[09:16] <neuro> ya embra jakie :)
[09:17] <dwatkins> also, we have a castle, so ner ;)
[09:17] <neuro> yeah but it's rubbish and full of americans
[09:17] <dwatkins> well there's plenty of other awesome hills and nice scenery
[09:17] <popey> TheOpenSourcerer: tricky this week, and next week I'm out of the country
[09:17] <neuro> "Other hills and scenery are also available"
[09:17] <dwatkins> a friend of mine who lives in London comes up once a year because she misses how awesome Edinburgh is
[09:17] <dwatkins> hehe
[09:18] <dwatkins> please book early to avoid disappointment
[09:18] <neuro> :)
[09:18] <neuro> i'm tempted to go out in a wee run in the car at the w/e
[09:18] <TheOpenSourcerer> Hey ho popey nm. It'll probably be raining by the time you get back.
[09:18] <neuro> maybe head out fife way
[09:19] <neuro> st andrews beachiness
[09:19] <TheOpenSourcerer> I've just booked my first evah hovercraft trip. Going to the Isle of Wight Chilli festival next weekend.
[09:19] <neuro> the wat?
[09:19] <neuro> chilli people are weird
[09:20] <TheOpenSourcerer> neuro: http://isleofwightchillifiesta.co.uk/
[09:20] <dwatkins> Red Hot Chilli People
[09:20] <neuro> oh it's a "fiesta", is it?
[09:20] <dwatkins> I might cycle up into the Pendlands, I really like it up there.
[09:20] <dwatkins> *Pentlands
[09:20] <neuro> every time someone says that word, i don't think arrrrrriba!, i think Mk.1 ford fiesta
[09:20] <MooDoo> ooo bhut jolokia is my fae chilli
[09:20] <MooDoo> fave
[09:20] <TheOpenSourcerer> Then two weeks after that it's West Dean: http://www.westdean.org.uk/Events/Outdoorevents/ChilliFiesta.aspx
[09:21] <neuro> the pentlands?
[09:21] <neuro> pfff
[09:21] <neuro> mere pimples on the landscape!
[09:21] <TheOpenSourcerer> MooDoo: I agree. They have a fantastic flavour.
[09:21] <MooDoo> TheOpenSourcerer: yup, nice on bacon cobs :D
[09:22] <TheOpenSourcerer> Yesterday I had 2 Trinidad Scorpion "Butch Ts" on my curry. ;-)
[09:22] <TheOpenSourcerer> Fresh from my greenhouse.
[09:22] <MooDoo> now you're just showing off
[09:22] <TheOpenSourcerer> BUt unfortunately they were rather small. ~1cm
[09:22] <TheOpenSourcerer> From an overwintered plant.
[09:23] <popey> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-23341504
[09:23] <popey> \o/
[09:24]  * christel makes note to visit TheOpenSourcerer to sample all the chilli if this baby doesn't arrive soon
[09:24] <MartijnVdS> popey: so it's more like you're *fleeing* the country then
[09:24] <czajkowski> TheOpenSourcerer: would love to but I've a day of phone meetings :(
[09:24] <czajkowski> christel: you've ages left no ?
[09:24] <TheOpenSourcerer> hah christel that will shift it!
[09:24] <MooDoo> my wife tried chilli did nothing lol
[09:24] <czajkowski> christel: irc session restarted can you dm me that email address again please...
[09:25] <TheOpenSourcerer> czajkowski: Wasn't thinking of today...
[09:25] <czajkowski> TheOpenSourcerer: ah ok :) in the future yes
[09:25] <christel> czajkowski: term this week, just over two weeks until due date (half a week to go until the point at which david arrived!) :)
[09:25] <christel> so not quite "ages" :)
[09:26] <czajkowski> has it turned yet?
[09:26] <christel> but i am convinced she'll be late
[09:26] <christel> no idea :)
[09:27] <brobostigon> my brother and his other half are due a little one next month.
[09:27] <brobostigon> also.
[09:27] <christel> i hope she has turned!
[09:28] <christel> (presentation scan at the end of the week, hopefully she's turned -- if she hasnt then they will cut me open on august 1st, which i dont much fancy) :)
[09:29] <brobostigon> i found the perfect baby grow a few weeks ago, prison orange and stripes, and says in black lattering on the front, "i have been inside 9 months!!" made me laugh.
[09:29] <neuro> sweeeeeeet: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-23326709
[09:29] <Seeker`> a mini christel running around sounds dangerous
[09:30] <neuro> potentially 10 new HD freeview channels next year
[09:30] <MartijnVdS> \o/ freeview
[09:30] <neuro> including 5 HD simulcast channels from bbc
[09:30] <MartijnVdS> neuro: Not just versions of BBC One and Two
[09:30] <MartijnVdS> ?
[09:30] <neuro> MartijnVdS: bbc one and two are already in HD
[09:30] <directhex> neuro, great news for those not on reduced-capacity repeater transmitters
[09:30] <MartijnVdS> neuro: yeah but the regional versions aren't
[09:30] <directhex> i.e. most of us
[09:31] <neuro> MartijnVdS: that's a bbc trust issue
[09:31] <Seeker`> it'll be BBC 3, BBC 4, CBBC
[09:31] <neuro> and cbeebies and bbc news
[09:31] <MartijnVdS> http://www.freeview.co.uk/articles/news-and-features/blog-post/more-hd-channels-coming-to-freeview.html
[09:31] <neuro> wait
[09:31] <neuro> what am i saying
[09:31] <neuro> bbc one hd IS regional
[09:31] <neuro> just bbc two isn't yet
[09:32] <MartijnVdS> neuro: after the news, I get the red screen with "Programmes for your area are not available on this channel. Please switch to channel 101" or something similar
[09:32] <directhex> bbc one hd isn't regional is it? doesn't it tell you to bog off back to SD for regional news?
[09:32] <popey> neuro: not on virgin it isnt
[09:32] <neuro> MartijnVdS: but you're not in the UK
[09:32] <neuro> popey: tis on freeview
[09:32] <christel> Seeker`: oh i already have one, he's 3 and a half :)
[09:32] <popey> during regional programmes they punt you back to SD BBC1
[09:32] <MartijnVdS> neuro: I'm not, but I do get freesat :)
[09:33] <neuro> oh, i know what the problem is
[09:33] <neuro> it's not "regional"
[09:33] <neuro> but Scotland and Wales are in HD
[09:33] <MartijnVdS> BBC One NI has a HD version
[09:33] <neuro> and NI yeah
[09:33] <popey> like after the 10pm news, the regional news isn't on
[09:33] <neuro> tis up here :)
[09:33] <popey> you get a nice picture of helicopters and lighthouses
[09:33] <MartijnVdS> Wales as well
[09:34] <MartijnVdS> popey: or swimming hippos
[09:34] <neuro> but yeah, bbc 3 and 4 hd would be nice
[09:34] <neuro> since they replaced BBC HD with 2 HD
[09:34] <MartijnVdS> that would be great
[09:35] <neuro> so everything on 3 and 4 is in bloomin' SD for the first time in years
[09:37] <MartijnVdS> neuro: the Dutch public broadcaster's channels are all in HD, but most programmes are still made in SD
[09:37] <neuro> well that's just stupid :)
[09:37] <MartijnVdS> so we get upscaled stuff everywhere
[09:44] <diplo> popey: Do you know if there are any examples of apps in touch using oauth yet ?
[09:44] <diplo> http://www.goodreads.com/api - Want to try over next couple of weeks writing a touch app to use this
[09:54] <popey> diplo: not sure, ask in #ubuntu-app-devel ☻
[09:55] <davmor2> Morning all
[09:58] <diplo> That was my next Q, joined there but wasn't sure if it should be touch or devel :)
[09:58] <diplo> ta
[10:17] <MattJ> Ok, now I'm hot
[10:17] <MooDoo> aircon ftw
[10:17] <MattJ> :(
[10:44] <BigRedS> do any mail clients default to hiding the PGP signature block and suchlike, and instead just show you the mail?
[10:47] <directhex> BigRedS, yes, thunderbird with enigmail installed, and evolution
[10:47] <Monotoko> is there a way to get a formatted list of outgoing mail between two times from the mail.log
[10:48] <BigRedS> Monotoko: I've a Perl script for doing that on Qmail somewhere
[10:48] <directhex> Monotoko, mail.log isn't standardized, it depends on which mail daemon you're using
[10:48] <BigRedS> directhex: ah, ta
[10:48] <SuperMatt> also, the mail log doesn't contain mail contents
[10:48] <BigRedS> Monotoko: depending on what you mean by "list of outgoing mail"
[10:58] <mungbean> Surface RT (32GB) - £133 + VAT
[10:59] <MartijnVdS> mungbean: because nobody wants it?
[10:59] <brobostigon> and i would wipe windows, and put something better on it.
[11:01] <penguin42> brobostigon: Except you can't
[11:01] <BigRedS> I'd like a surface
[11:01] <BigRedS> if it's as good as the hype, and were it possible to stick Linux on it
[11:02] <brobostigon> penguin42: oh dear,
[11:02] <penguin42> brobostigon: The ARM WIndows tablets are signed firmware where they don't let you load a different key
[11:02] <davmor2> BigRedS: you have one it's next to your sink in the kitchen :P
[11:02] <brobostigon> penguin42: again, oh dear.
[11:02] <BigRedS> davmor2: I'd like a surface *that's not covered in dirty crockery* :)
[11:03] <davmor2> BigRedS: Think outside the box, hire a clean end of dirty crocks, and a nice clean surface for you :)
[11:15] <neuro> at that price, i'd buy a surface rt just to mess around in, but given that I already have an iPad 2, BlackBerry Playbook, Kindle Fire HD and a Nexus 7, I'd say I'm tableted out :)
[11:15] <neuro> also, Windows RT
[11:15] <popey> ditto
[11:15] <neuro> the touchy slidy boxy bit of Windows 8 is the bit I like least
[11:15] <popey> ipad, chinese android thing, two nexus 7.. enough tablets in this house
[11:15] <neuro> :)
[11:16] <popey> sophie is saving up for an ipod touch
[11:16] <neuro> at some point i'll upgrade the ipad, but until then, no moar tablets
[11:16] <neuro> i'm actually more tempted to get a "regular" kindle again, the kindle fire is just too much of a pain in the backside
[11:17] <popey> oh, and a nook
[11:19] <neuro> hmmm, paperwhite, worth it?
[11:20] <AlanBell> I looked at a paperwhite next to a regular kindle, didn't seem worth it to me
[11:20] <AlanBell> you can't get the fonts to go any smaller than a regular kindle
[11:21] <AlanBell> fonts are a touch smoother, background is a fraction whiter, backlight is a good thing, but overall I wasn't tempted after I saw it
[11:25] <popey> 30 quid jobbie
[11:29] <neuro> ew
[11:29] <neuro> sounds expensive for a poop
[11:32] <davmor2> popey: man who'd of thunk it, you and me have a high compatibility on last.fm
[11:33] <popey> heh
[11:38] <MartijnVdS> not HIGH compatibility?
[11:45] <popey> i never actually use last.fm
[11:45] <popey> i just scrobble from spotify
[11:46] <MartijnVdS> I scrobble from spotify at home and rb at home
[11:53] <popey> amazed I've only scrobbled ~5.8K tracks over the years
[11:59] <BigRedS> I left RB playing a bloodhoung gang album at work when I went on holiday a few years ago and it's permanently skewed my 'tastes'
[12:00] <MartijnVdS> hahaha :)
[12:00] <MartijnVdS> "ewps"
[12:08] <NET||abuse> hi folks
[12:10] <NET||abuse> i have a unordered list of team members, the li's are dipslay:inline;float:left; and they contain text and images. So the list will wrap based on screen width, on my laptop I get 5 teanm members per row, if i want to have a full width exptended info show up when i click the team member, can i position a div below the current element and have that div push the suceeding rows down?
[12:10] <NET||abuse> or is that just imposible?
[12:12] <SuperMatt> hmmm, I have a pair of servers to name, should I got with crick and watson, or babbage and lovelace?
[12:13] <MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: statler and waldorf
[12:13] <SuperMatt> nope nope
[12:13] <SuperMatt> scientists is our theme
[12:14] <SuperMatt> though I know that lovelace and babbage were really mathamaticians
[12:15] <BigRedS> what do the servers do?
[12:15] <SuperMatt> they'll be nameservers
[12:15] <MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: Curie and Curie (Marie and Pierre)
[12:16] <SuperMatt> I'll save curie for later
[12:16] <MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: Haber & Bosch (from the Haber Bosch process)
[12:16] <NET||abuse> hmm, mendeleev and... who?
[12:17] <BigRedS> I'd name them after scientists who had something to do with classification or naming or somethiong
[12:17] <MartijnVdS> Constantin Fahlberg, inventor of saccharin, the first artificial sweetener
[12:18] <popey> our offices are named after scientists I think
[12:20] <SuperMatt> watson and crick were my bosses favoured names :(
[12:21] <SuperMatt> I sure wanted lovelace and babbage
[12:21] <SuperMatt> because we need more female representation all up in here
[12:21] <SuperMatt> I'll make sure I have a Curie at some point
[12:21] <MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: there's the #3 discoverer of DNA
[12:21] <MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: who was a woman, but who is often ignored
[12:21] <SuperMatt> that's good, she'll become the third namesever if we need one
[12:22] <MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosalind_Franklin
[12:22] <SuperMatt> wasn't there a woman who was strongly involved in relativity?
[12:23] <MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: yeah.. thinking of name now
[12:24] <MartijnVdS> Lise Meitner?
[12:24] <MartijnVdS> Emmy Noether?
[12:24] <SuperMatt> one set, fact checking
[12:24] <SuperMatt> worked with eddington
[12:25] <SuperMatt> I don't know :/
[12:26] <MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: Meitner calculated things for nuclear fission
[12:26] <SuperMatt> that's the one!
[12:26] <MartijnVdS> Noether did work that made quantum mechanics possible
[12:27] <SuperMatt> It was Meitner I was looking for, thanks :)
[12:27] <MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: never hurts to have too many future server names lined up :P
[12:27] <SuperMatt> wow, so easily the male names come to mind, yet we struggle to think of the women in science
[12:29] <directhex> we spent hundreds of years keeping women out of science
[12:29] <NET||abuse> SuperMatt: did you decide, I'm suggesting Mendeleev and Newlands as they created the periodic table between them
[12:29] <NET||abuse> so that's analogous to DNS
[12:29] <directhex> although somehow Maria the Jewess managed to innovate in things still used today
[12:30] <SuperMatt> it's watson and crick, I'm afraid
[12:30] <MartijnVdS> DNS not DNA
[12:31] <NET||abuse> but DNA would be more analougous to code, like a git repositoruy
[12:32] <dwatkins> SuperMatt: Calvin and Hobbes, naturally ;)
[12:32] <dwatkins> if you need shorter names, Luke & Leia (but be prepared for people to mis-spell Leia all the time)
[12:33] <dwatkins> In a previous existence, I looked after servers named after constellations, no-one could spell Sagittarius, and it was the mail server, annoyingly.
[12:33] <NET||abuse> that's a god argument
[12:33] <MartijnVdS> at a previous employer, we used Star Trek characters
[12:33] <NET||abuse> use simpler terms, like the names of Gould's from 'tar gat'
[12:34] <dwatkins> NET||abuse: what is? it's just a star constellation as far as I'm concerned :)
[12:34] <MartijnVdS> but in the end we had to go with even the most minor ones
[12:34] <dwatkins> NET||abuse: I like the idea of Stargate references :)
[12:34] <dwatkins> "Where's the file, is it on Ba'al or Teal'c?"
[12:34] <NET||abuse> dwatkins: good  argument, not god argument,, that the complex spellings of some constellations would be tricky to remember for all users
[12:35] <dwatkins> Really confuse your users by implementing server names with the apostrophes in... if that's even possible
[12:35] <NET||abuse> haha, i dont think dns supports it for the most part
[12:35] <dwatkins> NET||abuse: yeah, it got silly; thankfully no-one ever setup a server named after cancer.
[12:35] <NET||abuse> dwatkins: we were using stargate gods for our sprint names, then we switched to star wars planets
[12:35] <NET||abuse> we ran out of gods
[12:36] <MartijnVdS> NET||abuse: doesn't Star Wars only have 5 planets?
[12:36] <dwatkins> I guess whatever you choose you'll run out eventually, unless you start with AAAAA, AAAAB etc. - then you'll have a lot of work to do before exhausting the namespace.
[12:36] <dwatkins> I bet the extended Star Wars universe has hundreds.
[12:36] <MartijnVdS> dwatkins: but the extended universe isn't canon!
[12:36] <NET||abuse> MartijnVdS: no, we used them in alphabetical order, 1 every 2 weeks, untill we run up to z. then we choose a new theme
[12:36] <NET||abuse> so we used up 24 starwards planets
[12:37] <dwatkins> MartijnVdS: that's a hotly debated subject, I discovered recently.
[12:37] <dwatkins> How about the names of stars we can actually see? ;)
[12:37] <dwatkins> Betelgeuse is difficult to spell - I bet I got it wrong...
[12:38] <NET||abuse> x-men,, that's one idea for the new theme
[12:38] <MartijnVdS> dwatkins: CPD−57°10015
[12:38] <MartijnVdS> dwatkins: CD−45°1841
[12:38] <NET||abuse> dwatkins: haha, ouch, that would suck
[12:38] <dwatkins> haha
[12:38] <NET||abuse> MartijnVdS: I meant you
[12:38] <dwatkins> Our meeting rooms at work are named after whiskeys
[12:38] <NET||abuse> Are you in facebook?
[12:39] <MartijnVdS> dwatkins: do you also stock them in those rooms? :)
[12:39] <diplo> I've stopped giving servers names from anything else other than informative, so what/where they are now
[12:39] <diplo> So much easier
[12:39] <MartijnVdS> NET||abuse: who me?
[12:39] <dwatkins> MartijnVdS: sadly not, just with water
[12:39] <MartijnVdS> dwatkins: :(
[12:39] <dwatkins> diplo: yeah, that's the most sensible conclustion - I have "ubuntu-pc" and such like at home.
[12:39] <NET||abuse> MartijnVdS: I thought dwatkins might be as I thought I remembered they used whiskey names for something
[12:40] <NET||abuse> Yeh, for my own pc i juse use my initials and the model, so lab_Dell6340
[12:40] <diplo> Last job I moved to something like dns-r1 but more detailed for dns server in rack1
[12:40] <NET||abuse> or such like htat.
[12:40] <diplo> Oh yeah and model of server
[12:41] <NET||abuse> gets tricky when you've a huge array of VM's or blades
[12:41] <NET||abuse> purpose_model_slot#
[12:41] <dwatkins> at work I use my login name and the same scheme.
[12:41] <dwatkins> dwatkins-win7 etc.
[12:42] <NET||abuse> yup, sometimes i've thrown ubuntu into the name also
[12:42] <NET||abuse> i've not run a windows machine for 6 years now i don't think.
[12:42] <NET||abuse> Though my missus has a win8 laptop now.. urgh
[12:42] <NET||abuse> so there is one in the apartment
[12:42] <dwatkins> dwatkins-ubuntu is too long, isn't it? I think the limit's 15 characters for NetBIOS.
[12:42] <diplo> NET||abuse: On my vms I had function and which vmserver
[12:43] <NET||abuse> diplo: yeh, I stopped caring bout which vm server and such when the engineer tok over phsysical maintenance.
[12:43] <NET||abuse> then i made his life hard by just using purpose or project name
[12:43] <dwatkins> aha, DNS is more forgiving: (63 letters).(63 letters).(63 letters).(62 letters)
[12:44] <NET||abuse> hmm, that's decent length actually, as opposed to a NETBios name being 15 characters
[12:44] <dwatkins> no, I'm wrong, it's that minus one character, 253
[12:45] <dwatkins> so for safety, assume each part of the name (four maximum) should be 62 chars or less, I guess.
[12:45] <dwatkins> if you have a five-part hostname, you're special ;)
[12:45] <NET||abuse> ooh, never thought of a sub sub sub domain
[12:45] <dwatkins> many people don't
[12:46] <dwatkins> I've seen applications fail because someone in the US didn't consider companyname.co.uk, they only considered companyname.com or similar
[12:46] <NET||abuse> the total fqdn just is limited to 255 right? so at 5 you can just limit it to 51 characers
[12:46] <dwatkins> NET||abuse: 253, I think, as it's limited to 254 but a dot gets added ot the end
[12:46] <NET||abuse> ahh, right,,
[12:46] <dwatkins> like with IP addresses, I always assume a bit of contingency
[12:47] <NET||abuse> that said, i dont' think i've ever seen, even a hash based name over 24 characters
[12:47] <NET||abuse> in a segments
[12:47] <dwatkins> http://www.llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwyll-llantysiliogogogoch.com/
[12:47] <NET||abuse> bloody welsh
[12:47]  * dwatkins bows deeply
[12:47] <dwatkins> you're welcome :D
[12:48] <dwatkins> or "eich bod yn croesawu" as apparently they say, I'm just descended from them.
[12:48] <penguin42> wow, that only just fits
[12:49] <dwatkins> pure genius in their tourist board, clearly.
[12:49] <Azelphur> Tried out Ubuntu phone last night, looks really cool, can you get X applications running on it?
[12:49] <dwatkins> "oi Dave, let's rename the village to encourage tourism, shall we?" ... "ok Owen, but make sure it's not too long so we can make a domain name of it when the internet gets invented"
[12:51] <popey> Azelphur: no currently
[12:51] <popey> it doesnt have x
[12:58] <dwatkins> There appear to be about 9 of me on Facebook.
[13:00] <penguin42> dwatkins: Disconcerting isn't it
[13:01] <Azelphur> popey: fun, is it gonna have xmir at some point?
[13:02] <mungbean> there's always a gay topless one too
[13:02] <mungbean> its a rule of the internet. every has a topless facebook twin
[13:02] <popey> Azelphur: ask in #ubuntu-touch ☻
[13:02] <Azelphur> aww :p
[13:03] <popey> the developers hang out theree
[13:36] <diplo> Hmm ok, we have a customer who has a system that doesn't use passwords to login to our app
[13:37] <diplo> We're developing a new app, same thing but web based where we have a tab with a terminal inside the browser to keep working with stuff we haven't developed yet
[13:37] <diplo> Issue is, when clicking on that tab it logs them in because they have no password prompt
[13:38] <diplo> With out adding a password, is there anyway that anyone knows of, to make them have the prompt with ssh connecting but can hit enter through the password ?
[13:38] <bigcalm> Good afternoon peeps :)
[13:38] <mungbean> wondering about astroturfinh my garden
[13:38] <diplo> Yes we are trying to tell them to use a password, but they are quite adament they don't want one
[13:41] <diplo> Oh and the reason we don't want it to auto login is licenses, each login uses one :)
[13:43] <penguin42> diplo: Well I guess you can do anything with pam
[13:43] <diplo> Just reading into pam now
[13:44] <penguin42> diplo: Are you saying the act of logging in on the target uses a license or is it something post login?
[13:45] <diplo> We use any non system users are 1 license, so if they have multiple sessions keep logging in the use a license ( we're not strict about it though )
[13:45] <diplo> More the problem is going to be with a lot of dead sessions
[13:46] <penguin42> license stuff is always a good way to make life harder
[13:46] <penguin42> diplo: Do they get a shell?  I'm thinking of something like an authorized_keys file where the key only allows them to run a specific command and that waits for the return or something
[13:47] <diplo> there .profile basically auto logs them into our app
[13:47] <diplo> penguin42: thats an idea
[13:48] <diplo> If I can't find another way, that defo sounds doable
[13:48] <penguin42> diplo: Oh well before that in the .profile just put a    read DUMMY
[13:49] <diplo> yeah but they are logged in by the time it's read the profile which = license, and yes totally agree with licensing it sucks!
[13:50] <diplo> Hmm requiredAuthentications password, keyboard-interactive
[13:50]  * diplo googles latter
[14:04] <diplo> Added "read -sn 1 -p "Press any key to continue.. " .. works but sucks!
[14:04] <diplo> :P
[14:11] <penguin42> where's the any key?!
[14:13] <diplo> lol
[14:14] <mungbean> http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/mesa-dev/2013-July/041900.html Direct3D 9 Support Released For Linux
[14:16] <SuperMatt> how exactly does this work? If I run something in wine it'll work? Or does someone need to create a linux binary, but not bother to rewrite direct-x code for opengl?
[14:19] <mungbean> they seemed to have success with certain problematic games under wine
[14:19] <SuperMatt> I see
[14:20] <SuperMatt> so they're still running under wine?
[14:21] <penguin42> yeh but made the Direct3D 9 part of Wine work
[14:21] <SuperMatt> gotcha
[14:21] <SuperMatt> well that's pretty snazzy
[14:21] <mungbean> http://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/1igw7r/direct3d_9_support_released_for_linux/
[14:21] <mungbean> lots of comments i don't have time to read
[14:22] <SuperMatt> lol
[14:22] <mungbean> "Wine has a Direct3D to OpenGL translator that has significant performance overhead and spotty compatibility. This makes most open-source 3d drivers speak Direct3D natively, on par with OpenGL, so Wine doesn't need the translator any more"
[14:22] <mungbean> sums it up
[14:22] <SuperMatt> would be nice to see it mashed together with the next wine release
[14:22] <mungbean> Downsides are that this fundamentally can't work with any of the closed-source drivers or the current Intel open-source drivers, so Wine can't throw away the wined3d translation layer yet.
[14:22] <mungbean> lol
[14:23] <SuperMatt> hah
[14:23]  * penguin42 wonders what other interface there is than OpenGL that X provides
[14:26] <popey> nice for people playing "older" D3D 9 games on Intel though?
[14:28] <SuperMatt> yarr
[14:29] <SuperMatt> I assume that because dx9 is backwards compatible with older versions, that it should give a boost to other games?
[14:30] <mungbean> seems to be lots of difference of opinion on that thread
[14:30] <mungbean> dont know what to believe
[14:31] <popey> there is no spoon
[14:31] <mungbean> only cake
[14:31] <popey> liar
[14:33] <bigcalm> If there is no spoon or cake, what am I eating?
[14:33] <bigcalm> Oh, a banana
[14:34] <mungbean> eating a plum than was deceptively soft on the outside
[14:34] <mungbean> and taste like potato inside
[14:36] <davmor2> mungbean: I think you'll find that is a purple potato ;)
[14:41] <mungbean> still ate it
[14:43] <BigRedS> Oh wow maplin has some wonderful air conditioning going on
[14:43] <BigRedS> I was so grateful I bought a switch
[14:45] <dwatkins> ...and thus the cost of their electricity bill for today is justified
[14:45] <BigRedS> it was a £6 switch
[14:45] <penguin42> BigRedS: Is it a big red switch?
[14:45] <BigRedS> haha, no, I didn't think of that
[14:45] <dwatkins> that's either a cheap switch, or a button with far too much functionality
[14:46] <popey> BigRedS: GbE?
[14:46] <popey> for 6 quid i expect it's 10baseT
[14:46] <BigRedS> popey: nah, 12V IP67 toggle switch
[14:46] <mungbean> i added up the memory shown by top, ps etc, and it comes not even close to the memory in use by my system :S
[14:46] <mungbean> and i uunderstand cache,free,buffers, etc
[14:47] <popey> "in use"?
[14:48] <mungbean> Mem:       4021136    3816856     204280          0      42452     206328
[14:48] <mungbean> -/+ buffers/cache:    3568076     453060
[14:48] <mungbean> Swap:      4095996    1450104    2645892
[14:48] <dwatkins> I didn't think top showed all processes
[14:48] <dwatkins> I imagine there's a switch for 'ps' that will, though, and their memory usage.
[14:49] <mungbean> 4 S root      1080     1  0  80   0 - 523459 poll_s Jun27 ?       00:00:02 /usr/sbin/console-kit-daemon --no-daemon
[14:49] <mungbean> what's that?
[14:49] <mungbean> seems to be taking loads of SZ
[14:52] <popey> apt-cache show $(dpkg -S /usr/sbin/console-kit-daemon)
[14:52] <popey> ☻
[14:53] <mungbean> what's the size on other ppls systems?
[14:53] <popey> root     11946  0.0  0.0 2093964 1504 ?        Sl   13:29   0:00 /usr/sbin/console-kit-daemon --no-daemon
[14:54] <BigRedS> root      2141  0.0  0.0 2091756 3948 ?        Sl   08:48   0:00 /usr/sbin/console-kit-daemon --no-daemon
[14:54] <BigRedS> popey starts work late...
[14:54] <davmor2> right here, right now, right here, right now, right here, right now, check it out now funk soul brother..  bet you can't guess what I'm listening too :)
[14:54] <popey> heh
[14:54] <popey> your own mortality?
[14:55] <popey> popey updates his machine and reboots it in the mornings ☻
[14:56] <davmor2> popey:  wow your computer does time travel
[14:56] <BigRedS> 13:29 isn't morning!
[14:56] <mungbean> top -b -n 1 | grep cons 1080 root      20   0 2044m 1520 1384 S    0  0.0   0:02.35 console-kit-dae
[14:56] <mungbean> huge virtual mem, low res, shr
[14:57] <popey> its lying
[14:57] <popey> alan@deep-thought:~$ uptime 15:57:29 up  6:02,  4 users,  load average: 0.65, 0.87, 0.94
[14:58] <davmor2> popey: Your computer lies I think you'll find, It created the blue prints for a computer that would get the answer correct :P
[15:03] <TheOpenSourcerer> thanks for the lovely cold ice cream AlanBell :-D
[15:03] <popey> git
[15:04]  * penguin42 is still waiting for his chocolate sorbet to finish freezing
[15:04] <christel> so unfair! AlanBell never gives me any ice cream :(
[15:05] <AlanBell> <o
[15:05] <AlanBell> ^ ice cream cone for christel
[15:05] <BigRedS> if you hold it like that the ice cream will fall out
[15:06] <TheOpenSourcerer> And I have "free beer" in the fridge for later ;-)
[15:06] <penguin42> AlanBell: It'd be better with a Flake   <Q
[15:06] <christel> AlanBell: \o/
[15:06] <^2fC> lo all :]
[15:06] <^2fC> Can anyone help me?
[15:07] <christel> depends, do you bring ice cream?
[15:07]  * christel hides
[15:07] <TheOpenSourcerer> !ask
[15:07] <^2fC> I am tryin to get Quake 3 to be ported, I have opened them on my Router and given them a IP (game servers IP) and it doesnt seem to show on Internet its on Local Hos :/
[15:08] <^2fC> hhaha christel :p
[15:08] <^2fC> sure :D
[15:09] <^2fC> I have also made a static IP to.
[15:10] <^2fC> on the Server!
[15:10] <BigRedS> ^2fC: so you've forwarded the (correct) ports on your router, and have a quake server running elsewhere, but cannot connect to it?
[15:12] <Laney> hmm
[15:19] <nimesh> does anyone know of any screen and voice recorders for ubuntu that does not take a lot of cpu or ram
[15:21] <^2fC> BigRedS: ok here goes: My Room = Router/Switch/Powerline (Static IP on Gaming PC) then in the basement I have: Powerline>Server from Switch in my Room! the server has a static IP and all ports are correctly configured properly with the correct IPs.
[15:21] <popey> nimesh: i use kazam
[15:21] <mungbean> +1 for kazam
[15:21] <^2fC> When I go on my Gaming PC in my Room I can't see it on the Internet List of Quake 4 server Browser.. also if I try and connect with the IP/Port it does not connect I have to use 192.168.x.xxx
[15:21] <mungbean> they should purge all the crappy non working ones from teh repos
[15:22] <^2fC> quake 3*
[15:23] <directhex> is the quake 3 master server still operating?
[15:24] <popey> mungbean: i had xvidcap purged
[15:24] <mungbean> \o/
[15:25] <mungbean> there's one called istanbul i think
[15:25] <mungbean> and some other ouseless crap
[15:26] <popey> problem is it's like text editors, some work better for others
[15:26] <directhex> no, looks like master3.idsoftware.com went down years ago
[15:27] <mungbean> check the reviews for istanbul
[15:27] <mungbean> 64 reviews
[15:27] <mungbean> 1 star every time
[15:27] <popey> file a bug to get it removed from saucy
[15:27] <mungbean> "I am loathe to criticize apps that people have freely given of their time and skills to create, but Istanbul has NEVER worked for me in ANY Ubuntu respin - not just Ubuntu 12.04.  Perhaps it should be euthanized - either that or recieve a massive dose of new blood from new developers...."
[15:27] <mungbean> etc etc
[15:27] <popey> bug 915982
[15:27] <popey> like that
[15:28] <mungbean> i will
[15:29] <mungbean> hmm
[15:29] <penguin42> there are a lot of universe packages that haven't worked for years because Ubuntu's fortify builds find glaring bugs in them that have been there for decades
[15:29] <mungbean> allegedly has a maintainer and makes releases
[15:30] <mungbean> maybe works on debian andnot ubuntu
[15:30] <penguin42> some are easy enough to fix when you find them - e.g. I got xpilot fixed a few months back
[15:30] <popey> https://wiki.gnome.org/Istanbul
[15:30] <popey> where?
[15:30] <mungbean> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/istanbul
[15:31] <mungbean> maybe its just a fail on unity
[15:31] <popey> not tried it for years
[15:34] <popey> yes, it fails on saucy, i see no indicator
[15:34] <mungbean> but possibly works on gnome
[15:34] <mungbean> hence worth having in repos but description should state it clearly
[15:34] <popey> bug 738551
[15:37] <penguin42> anyone understand X protocols enough to know what the error in the title of bug 469953 is about - I've just duped another to it, but I've seen that on lots of programs
[15:39] <daftykins> has anyone encountered systems that just go to a black screen immediately when trying to boot in UEFI mode? 'nomodeset' doesn't help in such a case
[15:40] <penguin42> I've heard of it, not got any UEFI myself
[15:40] <directhex> daftykins, i've heard of it on systems with a 32-bit UEFI implementation
[15:40] <directhex> daftykins, which is some Atom boards, and ancient macs
[15:40] <daftykins> hmm
[15:41] <daftykins> it's an Asus U36SD and U36SG semi-ultrabook with nvidia optimus tech
[15:41] <penguin42> oh god, Optimus
[15:41] <daftykins> ;D
[15:41] <daftykins> yep
[15:41] <penguin42> daftykins: Does it light up the external monitor or is it dead on everything
[15:42] <daftykins> i didn't happen to try an external display as it goes
[15:42] <directhex> there are multiple ways for optimus to be wired. some don't work.
[15:42] <daftykins> in fact i should add that this was 12.04.2 also
[15:42] <daftykins> 64-bit
[15:42] <directhex> can you disable nvidia entirely from the uefi setup?
[15:42] <penguin42> and is it grub-efi ?
[15:42] <daftykins> what i did in the end was left windows 7 installed in UEFI, then i installed ubuntu legacy :D both can boot via a BIOS toggle / boot override :D
[15:43] <daftykins> it was a friend who was over for the weekend to have an SSD fitted
[15:43] <daftykins> so i was against the clock
[15:43] <penguin42> nod
[15:47] <daftykins> i was at a motorcycle club organised music festival on the south west coast cliffs of Guernsey this weekend
[15:47] <daftykins> here's the view of the sunset with the Hanois lighthouse over the campsite :) http://i.imgur.com/VHk0ZHE.jpg
[15:47] <davmor2> daftykins: I can tell you what it is if that helps :)  It tries to load the nvidia chipset the nvidia chipset fails back to the intel chipset but the screen is set to minimum brightness.  In saucy it will be better once the nvidia-persistenced driver lands as the optimus gets support
[15:48] <daftykins> why doesn't it start up fine like legacy mode does though?
[15:49] <davmor2> daftykins: nvidia-319 + nvidia-prime + nvidia-persistenced should rock on optimus
[15:49] <daftykins> legacy mode boot of 12.04.2 gets in fine, intel only i expect
[15:49] <daftykins> UEFI boot - nada
[15:50] <MartijnVdS> daftykins: uefi boot doesn't work from USB sticks made with unetbootin
[15:50] <davmor2> daftykins: because legacy tries only the intel whereas uefi knows there is an nvidia card there too and that it needs to switch between the two
[15:50] <MartijnVdS> it does work from gtk-usb-creator-made sticks and CDs
[15:50] <penguin42> but you don't need unetbootin any more
[15:51] <daftykins> MartijnVdS: i started with unetbootin, but switched to Universal USB creator from pendrivelinux.com on my second attempt - not sure if that's busted too?
[15:51] <MartijnVdS> daftykins: I think that doesn't do efi either
[15:51] <daftykins> this was making a drive from Windows
[15:51] <MartijnVdS> the CD always works
[15:51] <daftykins> i see the black UEFI boot menu though
[15:51] <daftykins> is that not enough?
[15:51] <daftykins> davmor2: ah ok, is that true of 12.10 and 13.04 too?
[15:51] <MartijnVdS> hmm.. it should be
[15:52] <davmor2> daftykins: Yeap it only will work correctly from saucy on.  You can just turn the brightness up to see the login screen it's not great but it works
[15:53] <MartijnVdS> yay nvidia
[15:53] <daftykins> i don't think you can throw that one on nvidia
[15:53] <daftykins> roll on the day when as default, it'll boot intel only and be able to power down the nvidia chip on optimus. that'd be an acceptable default
[15:53] <davmor2> daftykins: oh it is,  they never bothered to support optimus on Linux which is the cause
[15:54] <daftykins> oh i know that
[15:54] <directhex> typically it's an error in the ACPI implementation
[15:54] <daftykins> but surely Canonical should work around that
[15:54] <directhex> which is the fault of the people building the shipping firmware
[15:54] <daftykins> well, Linux in general but for the case of Ubuntu specifically they should find a workaround imo
[15:54] <directhex> regardless of nvidia or not
[15:54] <daftykins> which firmware in that case? the system BIOS?
[15:55] <directhex> daftykins, problem arises when the brightness value is misreported by the firmware. e.g. wife's netbook never seemed to recover from suspend, as closing lid would issue a lid close event, and opening lid would issue a lid closed event, so display never started again
[15:55] <daftykins> right
[15:56] <davmor2> daftykins: what work around.   You need the latest x stack and the latest optimus supported nvidia driver and nvidia prime nothing else wil do it
[15:56] <daftykins> davmor2: so to verify that, booting as i do, the system should be network reachable (when on wired, naturally) when still being blank?
[15:56] <daftykins> so it's still booted up
[15:56] <daftykins> i get the feeling that's not what i was seeing but i could try it ^_^
[15:57] <davmor2> daftykins: just turn the brightness up
[15:57] <daftykins> davmor2: the workaround to use intel only
[15:57] <daftykins> pretty sure it's not brightness in this laptops case
[15:57] <davmor2> daftykins: that's set via the gfx to intel only in the uefi that would be the work around
[15:59] <davmor2> daftykins: if it's just the nvidia issue then 1 the brightness up will fix it and if it isn't then you should still be able to ssh in if you setup ssh
[15:59] <daftykins> i don't think it even boots
[15:59] <penguin42> daftykins: If brave enough it's worth trying to make sure you're on latest firmware; a lot of UEFI bioses are very broken, a lot of NVIDIA bioses are very broken, but they're getting better
[15:59] <daftykins> i just tried it then, it stays as a blank screen but i see the backlight on
[15:59] <daftykins> penguin42: yeah, my step #1 with UEFI issues is always update. i'm current on this one :)
[16:00] <daftykins> so i go into BIOS, move to boot override and select UEFI: flash drive
[16:00] <daftykins> black boot menu comes up, i select 'try...'
[16:00] <penguin42> we've got a batch of laptops at work and each one of us has a different BIOS version and different misbehaviour under X
[16:00] <daftykins> black screen with backlight on, no response from brightness controls, no lights to show it's alive
[16:00] <daftykins> haha - doh
[16:01] <penguin42> but one guy was brave enough to update and it's a lot better for him, so give it a go
[16:04] <daftykins> no bravery is required ;D
[16:08] <popey> i tried to bios update my x220 last night, failed
[16:08] <popey> it locks up at the "flash the bios" stage ☹
[16:09] <daftykins> erkle!
[16:09] <penguin42> popey: I bet that set the pulse racing a bit
[16:09] <daftykins> what update method was it? boot image, program inside the BIOS to read a flash drive...?
[16:15] <daftykins> ok there was actually a tiny update from 205 to 206, but it made no change
[16:15] <daftykins> (for my laptops BIOS)
[16:15] <daftykins> ah well, no biggy, i'm not after running Ubuntu on it :D
[16:19] <popey> its one where you burn the iso to cd
[16:19] <popey> so i put the iso image in /grub/images and booted via grub
[16:21] <daftykins> i tend to steal the binaries from images and paste them onto a win98 booting flash drive :D
[16:21] <daftykins> then DOS it up
[16:22] <daftykins> perhaps it detects something resident and gives up 0o
[16:29] <^2fC-desktop> mmm can anyone help?
[16:29] <^2fC-desktop> How do I ping my PC in the basement ?
[16:29] <^2fC-desktop> I just done 192.168.x.xxx and it Timed out...
[16:30] <TheOpenSourcerer> ^2fC-desktop: Is it an Ubuntu machine
[16:30] <^2fC-desktop> no windows :(
[16:30] <TheOpenSourcerer> Sorry - no idea then. Ubuntu you could do ping local.hostname
[16:30] <TheOpenSourcerer> or is ti hostname.local
[16:30] <daftykins> double check the IP of it
[16:30] <daftykins> click start, type 'cmd' and enter, 'ipconfig' in the command prompt window
[16:30] <TheOpenSourcerer> anyway you get the idea
[16:31] <^2fC-desktop> ok thanks lol
[16:31] <^2fC-desktop> daftykins, ermm I have :)
[16:31] <AlanBell> how do you think your computer in the basement is connected to your other computer?
[16:31] <TheOpenSourcerer> Can you disable icmp in windows?
[16:31] <^2fC-desktop> daftykins, its static :)
[16:31] <penguin42> mungbean: Istanbul seems to basically work under KDE on Saucy, it's not capturing everything though and seems to hit problems on longer records
[16:31] <daftykins> ^2fC-desktop: ok just checking. running a 3rd party internet security/firewall package that's blocking ping? perhaps it's in 'public' instead of home/work profile mode?
[16:32] <^2fC-desktop> AlanBell: via a Router/Switch/Power :)
[16:32] <directhex> yeah, sounds like the network is set to public, which applies a lot of firewalling, instead of private
[16:32] <^2fC-desktop> daftykins, its on home/work mode and there is no 3rd party stuff on here :)
[16:33] <daftykins> either you typo'd or your connections not working then :)
[16:33] <daftykins> are both on wired?
[16:33] <^2fC-desktop> powerlined
[16:33] <AlanBell> can both of them ping the router?
[16:33] <TheOpenSourcerer> Or it isn't echoing
[16:33] <directhex> yeah, good step to try, AlanBell
[16:33] <daftykins> oh powerline, funsies
[16:33] <daftykins> are you sure they're on the same circuit? test closer together first
[16:33] <^2fC-desktop> lol
[16:33] <daftykins> sockets in the same room preferably
[16:33] <daftykins> assuming it's the first time you're trying the powerline gear
[16:34] <^2fC-desktop> yeah first time :)
[16:34] <^2fC-desktop> it works fine mate I get max speed
[16:34] <^2fC-desktop> I will fix it!
[16:34] <^2fC-desktop> I can ping my Router ok..
[16:34] <daftykins> presumably your system is correctly receiving an IP via DHCP?
[16:34] <daftykins> ok
[16:35] <^2fC-desktop> yeah its all been set was pinging it before :/
[16:35] <daftykins> so there's only two powerline adapters yeah? router is by the windows PC?
[16:35] <^2fC-desktop> yeah 2
[16:35] <daftykins> how rude
[16:35] <^2fC-desktop> :)
[16:36] <daftykins> ping or SSH the other way work?
[16:36] <^2fC> trying to ping from basement here now :)
[16:37] <^2fC> nope wont ping pc in my room either mmm odd
[16:38]  * penguin42 should worry when G+ starts adding #Chocolate tags for me
[16:38] <daftykins> XD
[16:38] <daftykins> penguin42: it knows your addiction
[16:39] <penguin42> it's right
[16:39] <HoT|2fC^> mmm random drop :/
[16:39] <daftykins> maybe the powerline adapters have some kind of blocking function? i'd doubt it normally but that seems weird
[16:40] <daftykins> did you say it worked fine recently but today it's decided no pings for you?
[16:40] <HoT|2fC^> yeah
[16:40] <HoT|2fC^> yeah no they dont go sleep or anything :) or block any packets data etc..
[16:40] <HoT|2fC^> there good ones
[16:41] <HoT|2fC^> I set the static ip on basement and this PC
[16:41] <daftykins> could always packet sniff and see if the ping request comes in
[16:41] <HoT|2fC^> how do I do that :D
[16:41] <daftykins> install wireshark on one of them
[16:42] <daftykins> run wireshark and set it to capture on the LAN interface, then ping it from the one without wireshark
[16:42] <daftykins> ideally with as few programs running as possible to make the packets easier to read + slower moving
[16:44] <daftykins> i'm assuming you caught some of the above
[16:44] <HoT|2fC^> thanks daftykins got it all :)
[16:44] <daftykins> vewy gewd
[16:46] <HoT|2fC^> :) got alot of updates then so letting them do its work.
[16:46] <HoT|2fC^> that might fix it lol..
[16:50] <penguin42> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/07/17/google_glass_qr_exploit/  is funny
[16:54] <daftykins> hmm, you'd have to be pretty crazy to not notice a wifi network hop
[16:55] <penguin42> I don't know how it's represented on glass to know
[16:57] <HoT|2fC^> daftykins, Do I need to tell my Router aswell about the other PC?
[16:57] <HoT|2fC^> or shoudnt that matter?
[16:57] <HoT|2fC^> I did a ping and it timed out and wireshare came up with Echoping etc..
[16:58] <daftykins> so you pinged PC2 from PC1, wireshark on PC2 showed the ping request come in and the response go out?
[16:59] <HoT|2fC^> it sent 4 packets
[16:59] <HoT|2fC^> and didnt receive
[16:59] <HoT|2fC^> I did this from PC1 yes.
[16:59] <daftykins> so wireshark is running on the one that's the target?
[17:00] <HoT|2fC^> both :/
[17:00] <HoT|2fC^> lol
[17:00] <daftykins> can you up a screen of wireshark showing the capture at the time?
[17:01] <daftykins> just be sure it's being run as admin / root
[17:01] <daftykins> when capturing
[17:03] <HoT|2fC^> mmm cant seem to now as the PC is slowing down very bad due to updates I will wait untill there done firsrt :o
[18:02] <^2fC-desktop> daftykins: I got it to ping now :)
[18:02] <^2fC-desktop> I had to setup ICMP :\
[18:02] <daftykins> 'setup' ?
[18:03] <^2fC-desktop> Tick the box off "Allow incoming ehco request"
[18:03] <^2fC-desktop> in ICMP > Settings of Windows Firewall.cpl
[18:03] <^2fC-desktop> :)
[18:04] <daftykins> oh right, it was firewall config then
[18:04] <daftykins> aaah - maybe it only enables that auto when file sharing which i always do
[18:04] <^2fC-desktop> Whats annoying me now is Quake 3 wont show on the Internet list :(
[18:04] <^2fC-desktop> My Gameserver..
[18:04] <^2fC-desktop> daftykins yeah thats the one.
[18:04] <daftykins> really does sound like private profile woes that :D
[18:04] <daftykins> ah well, glad you found it
[18:05] <^2fC-desktop> :)
[18:05] <^2fC-desktop> I have doom 3 servers on this PC but the basement one I just wanted to host 1 quake 3 server and it doesnt seem to want to show on the Internet just Local Host :(
[18:05] <^2fC-desktop> I have tried all port forwarding
[18:08] <davmor2> There a lady who's sure all that glitters is gold..........
[18:09] <neuro> NO STAIRWAY!
[18:09] <MartijnVdS> neuro: but.. the lift is out
[18:10] <daftykins> neuro: hehe
[18:10] <neuro> MartijnVdS: how dare you be a geek who doesn't get or capitalise on a Wayne's World reference.
[18:10] <directhex> ^2fC-desktop, which master server are you trying to publish to? the id software quake 3 master server no longer exists, so there'll be no internet servers listed by it at all
[18:11] <neuro> why are we doing Windows support in here? ;)
[18:11] <MartijnVdS> neuro: because WW sucks
[18:11] <neuro> MartijnVdS: you're dead to me
[18:12] <^2fC-desktop> directhex, so how are there servers online \o/
[18:13] <MartijnVdS> neuro: I think I was too young to "get it"
[18:13] <neuro> that's no excuse
[18:13] <MartijnVdS> dear openwrt compile, you have all my 8 cores to use. HURRY UP
[18:14] <neuro> dear MartijnVdS, no.
[18:14] <neuro> said the compiler
[18:14] <MartijnVdS> neuro: well, it could compile packages in parallel
[18:14] <neuro> "could"
[18:14] <brobostigon> some software deoesnt seem to multithread properly over multiple cores/cpus in my experience.
[18:15] <MartijnVdS> I did make -j9
[18:15] <neuro> yeah but does the cross compiler you're using support it?
[18:15] <MartijnVdS> neuro: it's using several CPUs but not all the time
[18:15] <neuro> i'm assuming you're not compiling for x86 or x86_64
[18:15] <neuro> maybe it's distracted
[18:15] <neuro> STOP WAVING SHINY THINGS AT IT
[18:15] <MartijnVdS> nah. mips
[18:16] <neuro> i miss mips
[18:16] <MartijnVdS> neuro: but it's HASWELL
[18:16] <MartijnVdS> neuro: buy a TP-Link router and use OpenWRT. Instant mips
[18:16] <neuro> erm, no
[18:16] <neuro> i do have an Indy kicking around in here somewhere
[18:16] <MartijnVdS> neuro: cobalt qube?
[18:17] <neuro> no, an Indy
[18:17] <MartijnVdS> the qubes were qute though
[18:17] <neuro> they were evil little things
[18:17] <neuro> as were raqs
[18:17] <MartijnVdS> neuro: not when you put Debian on them ;)
[18:18] <neuro> that just made them worse
[18:18] <MartijnVdS> we used one as a CVS server back in '99 or '00
[18:18] <neuro> we used one to host bits of evolt.org years and years ago
[18:23] <neuro> can't believe SGI are still going
[18:23] <neuro> selling storage and Xeon-powered servers now :(
[18:23] <neuro> although they do have a product called the SGI ICE Cube
[18:24] <neuro> datacentre in a shipping container
[18:24] <neuro> 1920U of space, 46K cores, or 29.8PB of storage per container
[18:25] <neuro> i could put up with a shipping container in my garden if i had 30PB of storage in it
[18:25] <neuro> not sure the neighbours would be too happy though
[18:32] <penguin42> neuro: Well their remains got bought out, mostly for their experience and their interconnect
[18:33] <neuro> i know
[18:33] <neuro> just didn't think they were still going
[18:34] <penguin42> neuro: Their Xeon powered servers are the largest single image machines you can buy - so that's not too bad; they're not just relabelling standard boxes
[18:34] <neuro> didn't think they were :)
[18:34] <penguin42> neuro: I mean you're not going to be able to find another single image with that many cores
[18:35] <penguin42> neuro: I don't think there is any other system you can buy that will do 2048cores/16TB of ram
[18:35] <neuro> if I sellotape 512 macbook airs together, i might
[18:36] <penguin42> neuro: Your challenge is to build the coherent interconnect over thunderbolt
[18:36] <MartijnVdS> it has the bandwidth..
[18:37] <penguin42> MartijnVdS: Not really
[18:37] <neuro> compared to, well, every high performance interconnect, ever? no
[18:38] <penguin42> (Oracle's M5 can do 32T of RAM in a single system but it's a lot less cores)
[18:38] <MartijnVdS> penguin42: It has the most you can get out of the macbook
[18:42]  * neuro logs into yet another windows server
[18:42]  * neuro despairs
[18:42] <hcfd> neuro: masochist
[18:42] <neuro> work :(
[18:43] <hcfd> neuro: wear gloves!
[18:44] <neuro> it's remote desktop, i'm not actually touching anything that's actively running windows
[18:44] <MartijnVdS> neuro: still, can't hurt
[18:44] <neuro> although the number of machines running windows has been increasing at an alarming rate in here
[18:44] <hcfd> Well, TCP sockets *are* end-to-end ;p
[18:45] <neuro> dell vostro in 2011, dell xps desktop last year, windows VMs on my macbook pros ...
[18:45] <MartijnVdS> neuro: time for a new job? ;)
[18:45] <neuro> hell no
[18:45] <neuro> (nearly wrote a different word there)
[18:45] <MartijnVdS> heck
[18:45] <neuro> the windows stuff in the house is mine
[18:45] <hcfd> New job? [yes]
 <CR> <CR>
[18:46] <neuro> the vostro was so i had a windows machine to learn win7 stuff properly, and to manage my ESXi servers
[18:46] <neuro> the xps was so i could play bf3 and dcs a-10c
[18:46] <neuro> the windows VMs are in Just In Case
[18:46] <MartijnVdS> Justin-Kees
[18:46] <neuro> hcfd: New job to replace existing job that I'm getting a bonus from in my wages next week? [no]
[18:46] <neuro> he's a great guy is justin
[18:47] <neuro> nah, the only windows stuff that gives me a headache is work stuff
[18:47] <neuro> like the mail server that died on its arse and had me working at half five yesterday morning
[18:47] <hcfd> Gah
[18:48] <penguin42> neuro: Servers know when it's a bad time to fail
[18:48] <neuro> my (deceased) predecessor thought it would be a good idea to set up a win2k3 instance on AWS with instance based storage and set to terminate on stop
[18:48] <MartijnVdS> neuro: job security
[18:48] <penguin42> neuro: hmm what did you do to him?
[18:48] <neuro> penguin42: he had a heart attack
[18:48] <penguin42> erk
[18:49] <penguin42> neuro: Not while wired into a commando socket?
[18:49] <neuro> a mate of mine got tapped to help out with db issues after he passed away, and my mate tapped me for help cos he was completely stuck (he's a webdev)
[18:49] <neuro> and i ended up getting offered the job on the back of that
[18:49] <neuro> it was actually the best job interview i've ever been on
[18:49] <neuro> 2.5 days over a weekend and a monday morning resurrecting some mysql infra
[18:50] <neuro> and i got paid for it
[18:51] <neuro> but yeah, windows servers
[18:52] <neuro> penguin42: i don't like to make jokes about it
[18:52] <neuro> he sounded like a nice guy
[18:54] <neuro> can't wait for this weather to bugger off, my NASes are hating it
[18:56] <penguin42> Not Appreciating Summer
[18:56] <neuro> hh
[18:56] <neuro> heh
[18:58] <neuro> actually, my readynas nv+ v2 isn't too bad
[18:58] <neuro> fan idling at ~ 1500 rpm
[18:58] <neuro> but my nv+ v1's fans are at 3200
[18:59] <MattJ> Further to my questions this morning, I decided to disregard everyone's advice and build my own NAS...
[18:59] <MattJ> based on bits I have around
[18:59] <neuro> ha, good luck with that
[18:59] <MattJ> It's going to be great!
[18:59] <MartijnVdS> MattJ: masochist
[18:59] <MattJ> Just don't ask me next week
[18:59] <neuro> when it's on fire
[18:59] <penguin42> MattJ: Remember to use really really good rubber bands
[18:59] <neuro> and holy water
[19:00] <MattJ> neuro, I'm already planning to handle that with an Arduino and a few fans
[19:00] <neuro> wat
[19:00] <MartijnVdS> the holy water?
[19:00] <MattJ> the fire
[19:00] <MattJ> Actually a smoke sensor would be good
[19:00] <MartijnVdS> I mean.. Arduinos are Italian, but do they bless water?
[19:00] <neuro> you're putting an arduino in your nas?
[19:00] <MartijnVdS> neuro: the arduino IS the nas
[19:00] <MattJ> My NAS is probbly a bit bigger than your NAS, so yes
[19:00] <neuro> lol
[19:01] <neuro> MattJ: let's not play the thing sizing game :)
[19:01] <MattJ> When I said "bits I have lying around"...
[19:01] <MattJ> I'm going to shove them into a wooden cabinet I have
[19:01] <neuro> oh dear
[19:01] <MattJ> :)
[19:01] <penguin42> MattJ: Varnish it?
[19:02] <MattJ> Yes, if I get that far
[19:02] <neuro> sideboard nas
[19:02]  * neuro despairs
[19:02] <neuro> just save your pennies and buy the real thing ;)
[19:02] <MartijnVdS> don't forget to take it to Antiques Roadshow
[19:02] <neuro> lol
[19:02] <neuro> "ah, lovely edwardian panelling, beautiful teak, dual gigabit ethernet and an eSATA port, very nice"
[19:03] <MattJ> neuro, I came so close to buying one today (off ebay even)... but adding everything up... meh
[19:03] <MartijnVdS> neuro: hahaha :)
[19:03] <neuro> it's worth it
[19:03] <MattJ> Plus it would be good to be able to do more custom stuff
[19:03] <penguin42> there are some nice pics of 1960s modems in lovely varnished cases with a DB25 on the side
[19:03] <neuro> i haven't had a log entry on my nv+ v1 since april
[19:03] <neuro> it just ticks over being awesome
[19:03] <MartijnVdS> so.. steampunk NAS?
[19:03] <MattJ> MartijnVdS, I can't say I haven't considered it
[19:04] <neuro> had to replace a failing drive last november, it dealt with it without missing a beat
[19:04] <MattJ> I have my eye on a nice old-fashioned gauge for disk usage
[19:04] <MartijnVdS> MattJ: but how are you going to store several TB of ring-core memory?
[19:04] <MattJ> mercury delay tubes
[19:04] <neuro> i still believe that storage should not be mixed with homebrew self build hacking tomfoolery
[19:05] <neuro> i've lost too much data in the past to leave it to myself
[19:05] <MattJ> neuro, I believe that too, but I'm temporarily choosing to forget that I believe that
[19:05] <MattJ> I'll send you the "I told you so" t-shirt in advance
[19:05] <neuro> well, don't come crying to us when it's, you know, on fire
[19:05] <neuro> excellent
[19:06] <neuro> wait
[19:06] <neuro> this isn't right
[19:07] <neuro> Load Cycle Count: 1220925
[19:07] <MartijnVdS> yay automatic sleep mode
[19:07] <neuro> hope not
[19:07] <neuro> disk spin down is disabled
[19:08] <neuro> power cycle count is 24, which sounds right
[19:08] <MartijnVdS> Desktop disks, which brand?
[19:08] <neuro> wd greens
[19:08] <MartijnVdS> Western Digital Green = shite
[19:08] <neuro> don't swear
[19:08] <neuro> and you're wrong
[19:08] <MartijnVdS> they're poo then
[19:09] <neuro> you're still wrong
[19:09] <MartijnVdS> neuro: I had to run some kind of Windows utility on it to disable sleep mode
[19:09] <MattJ> Opinions on Seagate?
[19:09] <MartijnVdS> neuro: because it has a hidden sleep mode
[19:09] <neuro> i haven't observed that
[19:09] <neuro> i reckon it's just smart being unsmart
[19:09] <MartijnVdS> neuro: it's still clicking all the time
[19:09] <MattJ> I've always had a negative opinion of them, and saw someone today claim how famed they are for reliability
[19:09] <neuro> seagate = poo
[19:09] <neuro> no clicks here
[19:09]  * penguin42 has heard of issues with the WDs before - I'd stay clear of them
[19:09] <MattJ> I've always used Samsung drives given the choice
[19:09] <neuro> i've had so many seagates crap out on me i've lost count
[19:10] <SuperMatt> I've never had any real issues with any hd manufacturer
[19:10] <MartijnVdS> MattJ: I have a Seagate 3TB disk (7200rpm) for /home
[19:10] <neuro> i've lost 2 wd drives in 15 years
[19:10] <neuro> i swear by them
[19:10] <MartijnVdS> I swear at them ;)
[19:10] <MattJ> :D
[19:10] <SuperMatt> haha
[19:10] <neuro> i have a wd 320gb usb2 doohicky that i've kicked the crap out of so many times being shoved into and taken out of my laptop bag
[19:10] <neuro> still works perfick
[19:11] <SuperMatt> I just live by the mantra that if you're relying on a single disk for everything, you're going to have a bad tinme
[19:11] <MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: true
[19:11] <neuro> i had a seagate 1tb usb2 thing that started showing sector errors and clicks of death after about 3 months
[19:11] <neuro> and it hardly moved
[19:12] <neuro> i have wd greens, elements, mac passports and a couple of AV-GPs that are all rocking along
[19:12] <neuro> most of them have been on for years
[19:13] <neuro> the synology i'm getting next week will have a couple of 2tb reds in it
[19:14] <SuperMatt> may I take this time to say I have 10TB of space
[19:14] <SuperMatt> ?
[19:14] <neuro> in total?
[19:14] <SuperMatt> yup
[19:14]  * MartijnVdS can hear neuro "Mine's bigger"
[19:14] <neuro> amateur
[19:14] <neuro> would take me a while to count all my storage up
[19:15] <neuro> probably about 25-30TB in the house total
[19:15] <neuro> not including boot drives
[19:15] <SuperMatt> nice work
[19:15] <SuperMatt> well, I have 10TB in just this one machine
[19:15] <SuperMatt> which is nice
[19:15] <neuro> mainly concentrated in the two NV+s, 5.5TB usable each (4x2TB each)
[19:16] <neuro> another 2TB+1TB usable in my backups server
[19:16] <neuro> 1TB + 250GB across the ESXi servers
[19:16] <neuro> 5TB on my TV mac mini
[19:16] <SuperMatt> good work
[19:16] <neuro> 2TB firewire plugged into my main MBP
[19:16] <SuperMatt> I don't think you need to go any further ;)
[19:16] <neuro> god knows what else is kicking about
[19:17] <SuperMatt> though I'd be interested to know what you use it for
[19:17] <neuro> and a couple of spare 2TB wd greens in case anything in the nas goes pop
[19:17] <neuro> um, porn, mainly porn
[19:17] <neuro> I KID
[19:18] <MartijnVdS> also some terrorist plans
[19:19] <neuro> nas0 is mainly video, nas1 is homedirs, scratch space, etc, backups server backs up all my servers, mac mini *cough* obtains things, and does time machine for itself and my 13" MBP, 2TB in my 15" MBP does local time machine, downloads, scratch space, central iTunes library (~ 150GB)
[19:19] <SuperMatt> speaking of porn
[19:19] <SuperMatt> I should organise my folders
[19:19] <neuro> oh, plus 2TB out in france doing *cough* obtainage
[19:19] <neuro> and 2TB in montreal being all web servery
[19:21] <neuro> i still have my original server sitting behind me
[19:21] <neuro> with it's epic 2.5GB of disk
[19:22] <neuro> huckled into a pizza box chassis just a bit smaller than a Mac LC
[19:23] <SuperMatt> hah
[19:23] <SuperMatt> man, I might actually need more space. The last 2 months of comics com to 47G
[19:23] <neuro> yikes
[19:23] <SuperMatt> oh well
[19:23] <neuro> i'm really only getting this nas so i have a bit of esxi reliability
[19:24] <neuro> and so i can shut down my pentium "oh, i claim to be 64-bit but i'm not really ha ha" D esxi box
[19:25] <neuro> which means i'll drop off irc at some point, as the vm that runs irssi proxy is on there ;)
[19:28] <penguin42> popey: On the welcome screen picture what's the highlighted pip represent?
[19:29] <SuperMatt> neuro: but if you come off irc you will cease to exist!
[19:30] <neuro> I DON'T CARE, IT MUST BE DONE!
[19:30] <penguin42> neuro: Don't you just migrate your vm to somewhere else while you handle it?
[19:30] <neuro> it's esxi
[19:30] <penguin42> can't it do that?
[19:30] <neuro> no vmotion etc
[19:30] <neuro> yeah, it can, if you pay money
[19:31] <penguin42> oh
[19:31] <popey> penguin42: number of tweets or something
[19:31] <popey> photos, miles run, personal stuff
[19:31] <popey> penguin42: proportional sized circles
[19:31] <penguin42> popey: oh hmm
[19:51] <davmor2> penguin42: the idea is it becomes a graphical representation of you, to welcome you to your phone
[19:52] <penguin42> with beard?
[19:53] <davmor2> penguin42: http://www.engadget.com/2013/02/15/touch-based-ubuntu-preview-coming-february-21st/ first phone image
[19:57] <penguin42> so what are the sizes of the blobs supposed to represent (as opposed to the number) - time since reception?
[20:01] <davmor2> penguin42: if you had 10 tweet yesterday and 20 today, todays blob would be bigger and yesterdays etc
[20:01] <davmor2> penguin42: not entirely sure how that will work for talk time
[20:01] <penguin42> ok, fair enough, so decaying blob size
[20:02] <penguin42> it would be interesting to see during a heavy conversation or something
[20:10] <popey> no
[20:11] <popey> maybe
[20:11] <penguin42> isn't that supposed to be       yes,no,maybe ?
[20:17] <popey> so the dots are days of the month
[20:17] <popey> and yeah, the blobs are proportional to the data that day
[20:23] <AlanBell> so there is an API for apps to push data to the blobs?
[20:24] <popey> i guess so ☻
[20:24] <AlanBell> so it could be more interesting humany things, like calories, or units of alcohol
[20:24] <AlanBell> or books read
[20:25] <AlanBell> pages of books read, from an e-reader app
[20:25] <AlanBell> steps from a pedometer app reading the orientation sensors . . .
[20:26] <ali1234> whats wrong with just having current time and date, last three events, next three appointments?
[20:27] <ali1234> why does everything have to be an experience these days?
[20:28] <AlanBell> daily manufacturing productivity figures published from your ERP application
[21:06] <penguin42> I'm surprised it's just revealing one variable - I'd have let you specify the r/g/b individually and the texture etc so you could see those manufacturing figures together with sales, temperature and stock price
[21:30] <ali1234> but if you could specify r/g/b then you could make it not use the ubuntu colours
[21:54] <popey> you can show multiple things
[21:54] <popey> when you tap it, it redraws
[21:54] <popey> so you could rotate round a number of stats