[06:44] hello all === MooDoo_ is now known as MooDoo [07:11] Morning [07:11] allo allo === alan_g|EOD is now known as alan_g === iahmad is now known as iahmad|afk === schwuk_away is now known as schwuk === msm is now known as Guest80806 === Guest80806 is now known as msm_ [08:32] !ping [08:32] pong! [08:33] !chickens [08:35] firefox kills my pc so badly i've taken to bookmarking all tabs and shutting it down every couple of days === schwuk is now known as schwuk_away [08:37] any advance on chickens? [08:37] I still can't comprehend why some people keep so many tabs open [08:37] MooDoo: marinate in a soy sauce, place on grill? [08:37] MooDoo: http://allrecipes.com/recipe/soy-and-garlic-marinated-chicken/ [08:37] I have tabs for "ongoing" stuff, like facebook, twitter, etc, and then normal browsing gets closed down all the time [08:37] Morning all [08:38] SuperMatt: I work the same way [08:38] morning Alan [08:38] MooDoo, I use many critical webapps for my work, and I always have those tabs pinned in Chrome [08:38] When I'm on a "project" I can get to 20 tabs or so.. but then I start closing them [08:38] I have a chromium user for each "personality" I have ☻ [08:38] home, work, uupc, and various odd twitter accounts [08:38] I only have home open in the evening, with the work one open all day [08:38] I still can't decide which browser to use [08:38] which one is winning in the firefox/chromium debate right now? [08:39] SuperMatt: yes. [08:39] chrome will do me, although I heard chromium is going to be default in the next ubuntu release? [08:39] with home and work only open I have 77 tabs open [08:39] Personal preferance wins that debate :) [08:39] good morning everyone, [08:39] morning brobostigon [08:39] morning MooDoo [08:39] sure, btu I'm talking about which one is going to be bundled by default with 13.10 [08:39] ha [08:39] ah* [08:40] SuperMatt: chromium isn't it [08:40] ? [08:40] I don't know [08:40] a discussion was started on that [08:40] but it hasn't been finished? [08:41] i dunno if the switch has been made [08:41] do what MS did, don't install any browser, let the user install the one they want to use :D [08:41] given chromium is still in universe, unlikely [08:42] SuperMatt: researching a topic [08:42] lots of resources and wiki pages [08:42] all important to keep open [08:42] until finished the work [08:42] also, chromium in my experience has always not really been kept upto date and recent, which is anther issue. [08:43] about:memory hangs when i run it on firefox :( [08:43] every couple of releases they say...new release is awesome and fixes all memory issues! [08:43] faster than chrome! [08:45] hmm...must be a memory leak somewhere...closed most apps and running 2.8GB used [08:45] the performance is secondary, it's the multi-profile stuff in chromium i like [08:45] which firefox doesn't seem to have [08:47] yes, an influence from chromium os. [08:48] Good morning all, happy Nelson Mandela Day! :-D [08:49] morning JamesTait [08:49] MooDoo, o/ [08:49] How's life? [08:49] JamesTait: tired frustrated hay fever blah blah blah....things are great :D [08:49] morning JamesTait [08:50] i usually get chronic hayfever but not this year \o/ [08:50] brobostigon, o/ [08:50] on the browser wars, I love Firefox's ethos, I like chrom*'s new webapps thingy, don't like that chromium takes a little while to get updates, and don't like chrome's extreme ties to google [08:50] MooDoo, I don't suffer from hay fever, but can relate to the other two. ;) [08:50] my hey fever is pretty bad, my nose is sore and feels like a fountain. [08:50] Maybe the answer is in using chromium for webapps and firefox for browsing [08:50] JamesTait: :) [08:51] if you use the ctrl-K to search in firefox, are you sending most of your data to google anyway? [08:51] I was seriously considering last night switching my searches over to yahoo [08:51] i'd rather DDG than yahooters [08:52] * SuperMatt nods [08:52] 1info chromium-browser unstable [08:52] !info chromium-browser unstable [08:52] chromium-browser (source: chromium-browser): Chromium browser - transitional dummy package. In component main, is optional. Version 28.0.1500.71-2 (unstable), package size 157 kB, installed size 1684 kB [08:53] got stuck on 18 for years [08:53] not too ancient. [08:53] it was for a while brobostigon [08:53] popey: definatly. yes. [08:54] i can't think of anything i search for that wouldn't want to show others [08:54] but it can be used for profiling [08:55] !info chromium-browser experimental [08:55] 'experimental' is not a valid distribution: extras, kubuntu-backports, kubuntu-experimental, kubuntu-updates, lucid, lucid-backports, lucid-proposed, medibuntu, partner, precise, precise-backports, precise-proposed, quantal, quantal-backports, quantal-proposed, raring, raring-backports, raring-proposed, saucy, saucy-backports, saucy-proposed, stable, testing, unstable [08:58] dear god [08:58] I think this fan might be too big for the small room I'm putting it in [08:58] the new chair? [08:58] the blades are the same size as my head [08:59] wow. [08:59] Laney: make sure you duck then ;) [08:59] not individually - the whole thing :P [08:59] oh, fan [08:59] the chair fit in quite nicely [09:03] i'm cold :( [09:04] hmmm [09:04] ddg is much better than I seem to remember [09:05] directhex: what? === iahmad|afk is now known as iahmad [09:07] * popey goes to get a fan [09:07] MooDoo, 2 hours of aircon ponted at my back [09:07] directhex: ah! [09:21] directhex: /me sites under the air con, it's nice :D [09:23] oh yeahhhhh [09:23] this beast is pretty powerful [09:25] i just got a face full of dust from mine [09:27] need to move it further away [09:28] '1' next to my shoulder is a bit much [09:28] mine is 3, 3 feet away, rotating. might switch off rotate and just have it blast me in the face constantly [09:39] Laney: pic? [09:44] * Laney stabs U1 [09:44] had to manually rotate it [09:44] czajkowski: http://ubuntuone.com/04P1ZR9uIssRvpd1KWT7Tn [09:44] not that a picture of a fan is very interesting ... [09:45] do u1 provide support if you are customer of the free solution? [09:46] There is the #ubuntuone channel that will probably give some support to some issues [09:46] i raised an email ticket about an issue [09:46] few weeks ago [09:50] Hi guys, got a reseller account with a web host, trying to scp some files from one user to another on the same box but cgetting ssh_exchange_identification: Connection closed by remote host so I guess they have a sshd setting to disallow it, any other thoughts on copying a dir of images from one user to another to save me downloading/uploading a few hundred meg of images [09:50] diplo: who's the host? [09:50] Compila.com [09:50] diplo: ah ok [09:51] Fairly shite, could probably ask them to do something but by the time they look at my ticket I could do it myself, tried su but thats denied as well. Think I'm out of options :) [09:52] * diplo can't wait till I order my dedicated server and run it myself! [09:52] if folks are running saucy and a a dropbox fan you may run into https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nautilus/+bug/1193522 just a heads up [09:52] Launchpad bug 1193522 in nautilus (Ubuntu) "nautilus crashed with SIGSEGV in gtk_action_get_name()" [Medium,Confirmed] [09:52] you will need to use it via the web [09:53] * AlanBell has run into that [09:53] one reason to ditch the dropbox and switch to sparkleshare [09:54] well I use U1 for everything tbh [09:54] but I do need dropbox for work so I'll just use the web [09:54] I had huge problems with U1 file sync, never worked properly for me [09:55] AlanBell: Do you store many binary files in sparkleshare ? [09:55] it is just nautilus that crashes with dropbox at the moment, you can open stuff from libreoffice file-open dialog or whatever [09:56] diplo: sure, 6.3G of stuff apparently [09:57] I read ages ago the downside for sparkleshare because it uses git was the replication takes a lot more space because of the binary data ? [09:57] actually that is over counting it, probably 3G or so for stuff [09:57] you know you've been away from the command line for too long when instead of typing 'apt-get' you type 'rpm'... [09:57] the .git directory is 2.8G [09:58] Heh, Either the Huaweu Ascen Y210 is a pretty poor phone, or the Talk Talk network must be pretty poor for them to be giving the phones away for free on a 2 year contract costing only £1.25/month for the 1st 6mths and even then it only goes up to £5/mth and thats with 100 minutes, 250 texts and 100Mb of data [09:58] so yes, there is more metadata, but I have a local full history tree, and I don't really care about space that much [09:59] DJones: the Huawei Y300 is a rather good phone, dunno about the Y210 [09:59] And, instead of the NSA listening in, you get the Chinese version! [09:59] I may give it a try again ta === schwuk_away is now known as schwuk [10:00] Android 2.3...... [10:01] That may explain it [10:01] crusty [10:01] it will work fine for a lot of people [10:01] I guess for somebody looking for a basic phone it would be ideal though [10:03] I was tempted to have a closer look at it for my wife, she hates her current phone [10:03] it'd work well for a phone for kids I think [10:04] Nah, its only 100 minutes & 250 texts, that'd be used inside the first day [10:04] i use about 3 minutes per month [10:04] and 10 texts [10:05] Morning all [10:05] the difference between android 2.3 and later versions is not that great [10:05] i installed an app on my android phone to keep track of usage [10:05] it's rather good [10:05] my giffgaff network automatically does that [10:05] ah, yeah it's a contract. I've got my fosterkid a payg sim from giffgaff and pay a set tenner a month for a goodybag, if he goes over he loses the ability to call till the next cycle [10:05] popey: watchdog? [10:05] Onavo [10:05] depending on the kids in question the contract would be fine, but bigger screen is good for games [10:06] IT'd be perfect my parents, they each have a mobile phone, 95% of the time they leave it in a drawer at home, the 5% of the time they take it with them, they only switch it on when they want to send a text/make a call and then turn it off again [10:06] gary, i'm on the 7.50 giffgaff, pretty good [10:06] as you install/upgrade apps it lets you know if they're known "data hogs" [10:06] and keeps track of your data usage, you can block apps [10:06] it's rather natty [10:06] we switched from giffgaff to a £7.50/month contract and free Y300 [10:06] mungbean: yeah, I might move to that myself, but Dan would probably want more, so for an extra two pound fifty it makes more sense to do the tenner [10:07] how much data do you get with the giffgaff 7.50? [10:07] http://giffgaff.com/goodybags 250mb popey [10:08] blimey [10:08] In normal usage, the only data hog I find are app updates so I'#ve set that to only update on wifi, unless I'm driving somewhere I'm normally connected to a wifi network [10:08] the 12 quid one is good! [10:08] yes, although i'm on wifi most of the day [10:08] so 250mb suits me [10:08] monthly recurring meeans i could always get a 12 quid one for holiday [10:09] I'm surprised at how much data I use as I'm on wifi all day as well [10:09] http://www.carphonewarehouse.com/buy/HUAWEI_Y300_KM072_FCON is the deal my daughter has [10:09] let me know if you want a GG sim and i'll give you my referral link :P [10:09] but stayed on the £10 package for now, but may upgrade to the £12 for the tethering option [10:09] no, use my link! [10:09] according to Ovano I am on day 18 of 31 and used 60.1MB of 250MB [10:09] NO, use my link! [10:09] :D [10:09] * popey ordered a sim [10:09] noooo [10:09] noooo [10:09] * brobostigon has three's no fup unlimited data, woop :) [10:10] http://giffgaff.com/orders/affiliate/oimon [10:10] popey: if you use someones link, they get 500 points and you get a free fiver of credit! [10:10] use that and you get £5 credit too [10:10] too late ☻ [10:10] order another [10:10] * diplo is sure popey was the one who got me on GiffGaff in the first place [10:10] freeee credit....freeee credit [10:10] diplo: i have had one in the past, when it first started [10:10] popey: I just use battery indicator for the same thing, according to that, I'm on day 8 and have used 39.4Mb of 500Mb [10:11] gonna be sad when my phone eventually dies as buying new phones outright is £££ [10:11] going to phone orange now and tell them I'm going to giffgaff [10:11] see what they say [10:11] hmm only used 70mb in the last 2 weeks, normally double/triple that [10:11] bye, probably [10:12] yeah [10:12] been with them since 1995 [10:12] thats what tmob said [10:12] Actually, its not battery indicator, its 3G watchdog [10:13] how about roaming? [10:13] that'd probably cost a lot [10:14] "If you're thinking of leaving orange, press 2" [10:14] http://giffgaff.com/index/international 24p a min [10:15] data roaming 45p min [10:17] OK next question for the day, I've written a python script in the past using fabric to check remote hosts svn info, a colleague would like that done on the intranet. Anyone succesfully used ssh2 php module or any other suggestions ? [10:18] haha, sales patter [10:18] I am thinking of getting a french data sim and just doing voip instead of roaming [10:18] if I want to talk to anyone, which I probably don't [10:19] woop, i just looked at the rpi thats acting as a wifi AP here, and 103days uptime, yay. [10:20] popey: I *tried* not to sound like a sales droid, or is that comment in reference to orange? [10:21] yes [10:21] she's trying to change tarrif [10:21] gave me the "giffgaff doesn't have their own network" patter [10:21] if they match it, it'll be tied in for 18/24 months [10:22] it's a molp or whatever on o2 [10:22] (so if you get crap o2 signal, it's a bad idea to go giffgaff) [10:27] so, she said they flat out cant compete with giffgaff, then tried to disparage them [10:27] "if it goes down you cant phone anyone" [10:28] LOL [10:28] to which i said "if orange goes down I never phone anyone" [10:28] "are you saying you're better than o2" [10:28] she said they can give me up to 1.5GB/mo for ~21 quid [10:28] failzors [10:28] tmob didn't even try with my missis [10:28] they said, fair do's [10:28] wont even try to offer u [10:28] i think it depends how you approach it [10:29] I don't use more than 60mb a month as is (over the cell network) [10:29] everything about GG is better IMO [10:29] I'm waiting for the day that data caps go away [10:29] * AlanBell just ordered a french SIM card [10:29] their website means i don't have to call people [10:29] I've had over 70 quid back from giffgaff via "helping" people on the forums [10:29] I mean.. yay 50mbit 4G. But not even a full minute of full use before you hit the cap [10:30] AlanBell: Le card de MIS? [10:30] Gary: how much do you get paid for each "help"? [10:30] most of that was chatting crap in the social channel! [10:30] one of these http://www.lefrenchmobile.com/en/order-sim-card-for-france.html [10:30] mungbean: no idea, but one month I assisted helpfully twice and made 30 quid! [10:30] wow [10:30] I can answer a lot of Q's on giffgaff but I never sign in :P [10:30] surely there must be people all over that [10:30] no idea how they worked that out! [10:31] AlanBell: do you know this? http://prepaidwithdata.wikia.com/wiki/Prepaid_SIM_with_data [10:31] and tbh, I found all my stuff via google [10:32] there is a guy on the forums who used to (before he left uni or something) make a very decent living off giffgaff, in the order of thousands of quid a cycle (as it's paid out in a weird cycle, not monthly) [10:32] MartijnVdS: yeah, it is one of the providers on there [10:32] AlanBell: apparently LeFrenchMobile also has Belgian SIMs.. hmmm [10:32] Blimey Gary, maybe I should make more of an effort :D [10:32] Interesting [10:33] I will get a 500MB data bundle and see how it goes [10:34] diplo: the forums can however be a bit overwhelming, too many people trying to answer each question can happen [10:34] AlanBell: I used less than that in a week in the UK [10:34] AlanBell: and I was using google nav *all* the time [10:34] AlanBell: why a french sim? [10:34] basically I use data more than calls, but I should be able to use sipdroid to have my phone as an extension on our PBX [10:34] wont that be roaming over here? [10:35] I won't be using it here :) [10:35] ah [10:35] I will be in france for a week [10:35] my theory is that voip over 3g is better than roaming on your own SIM [10:36] popey: is there a SIP or IAX client for the Ubuntu Phone yet/in the works? [10:37] not that I am aware of [10:38] sflphone compiles on arm I believe. According to some discussions on their mailling list recently. Someone trying to use it on a RPi. [10:38] AlanBell: do you have one of those wifi/mifi things to put it in? [10:38] AlanBell: or are you sticking it in your phone? [10:39] I will put it in the phone [10:39] * MartijnVdS has a Huawei E586 [10:39] AlanBell: there is a kde telepathy client so there is a possiblity of using sofia-sip as telepathy is on the phone and then maybe through together a qt client based on the kde one maybe? [10:40] davmor2: It should be integrated, so you can choose to use SIP or "mobile network" for a call [10:41] I still think a good niche would be to use SIP as the primary dialer [10:43] i work in an office with good wifi and poor mobile [10:43] a lot of london does too [10:43] same for me, though wifi is flaky [10:44] MartijnVdS: I will put it in one of the phones (probably mine) and then share it over wifi to all the other three phones, tablet and laptop that we will have [10:44] AlanBell: "don't wander off, or you'll lose the call" :) [10:45] mungbean: yeah, it would mean that the phone would integrate with your PBX as a proper extension, and there would be no roaming, just get a local data SIM [10:46] in the Netherlands, there's a net neutrality law, so providers can't even throttle or block SIP traffic anymore [10:46] (they used to charge more for SIP-capable plans) [10:50] Good morning peeps :) [10:51] afternoon, bigcalm [10:51] Anybody fancy helping me route specific traffic via a VPN? [10:51] I'm confused [10:51] Hi MartijnVdS [10:51] bigcalm: sure, what do you want to do? [10:51] I have a VPN set up between a Rackspace firewall and an ADSL router [10:52] what kind of VPN [10:52] IPsec [10:52] *shudder8 [10:52] :Z [10:52] Well, the ADSL router says that the VPN is working. But I don't know how to route traffic though it [10:53] bigcalm: is it tunnel-mode (each end has an extra IP) or transport mode? [10:53] Well, the ADSL end has an extra IP of 192.168.5.1, but I don't think that there is an extra IP address on the server [10:54] I will stop starting my sentences with 'Well'. It's making me sound like davmor2 [10:54] So, what will you replace it with? [10:54] :D [10:55] bigcalm: in that case.. I don't know :( Not much experience with ipsec [10:55] bigcalm: I tend to use OpenVPN [10:55] * popey stabs Dave2 [10:56] he knew it was coming [10:56] stoppit Dave2 [10:56] stoppit and tidyup? [10:56] bigcalm: actually it (deep breath in) Well.............. have a slap for your inaccuracy :P [10:56] bigcalm: I assume you've got to set up routing rules on your router [10:56] Vell.. [10:57] if it were a simple Linux box with a dedicated box it'd mainly be a case of "ip r add to dev via " [10:57] davmor2: aww, sorry :P [10:57] or some variation on that that works, that may be slightly off [10:57] er, with a dedicated device for the VPN is what I meant to say [10:58] I see [11:00] happy afternoon all [11:00] MartijnVdS: now sounds like the Herr Flick of the Gestapo from Allo, Allo [11:00] davmor2: \o/ [11:00] or should that be \o [11:01] * Gary hides [11:01] neuro: merry midday to you to! === graingert is now known as Guest12899 [11:01] merry merry merry! [11:03] * brobostigon does a minetest compile again, for curiosity, how things have evolved. === schwuk is now known as schwuk_away [11:06] bigcalm: In my router ( Draytek ) we connect lan to lan over ipsec vpn, we just put the route we are connecting to in the configuration [11:06] And then add routes to hosts after [11:08] diplo: this is a DrayTek Vigor2710 \o/ [11:08] Can you explain what you mean by putting in the route? [11:09] it puts the route in the basket [11:09] or it gets the hose again [11:09] Heh [11:10] http://kb.cyberoam.com/default.asp?id=1227 [11:10] Like that [11:10] Remote network internal IP is the bit you probably require [11:10] diplo: thank you :) [11:16] diplo: that page explains how to set up the VPN. We already have that working. I need to know how to route via the VPN [11:17] So you have the internal IP at the end of the settings? [11:18] TCP/IP Network settings, remote mask remote ip etc [11:18] All I do after that is add the route back to my machine at the other end unless it's using the same gateway that the vpn goes out on [11:19] We have 4 lines, some servers use different lines, so on each box I'll do route add -network 10.10.2.1/24 gw [11:19] That's it, works [11:19] That's the last bit I didn't know about, thank you :) [11:20] once you get it working, please blog about it :) [11:20] Hehe [11:21] MartijnVdS: the link that diplo pasted works to get the VPN working between sites. I'll try and blog about the extra bits for routing... [11:21] Ah, Dave2 mentioned that above bigcalm, so guessed you had tried that [11:21] Draytek site has loads of info about it, very helpful [11:22] I have little networking knowledge, so it's difficult to know what the correct search terms are [11:22] Asking on IRC is working so far though :) [11:22] site:draytek.co.uk ipsec vpn lan to lan I think I probably search googly for [11:23] I found their site not that great to find stuff on [11:23] But it *does* have a wealth of info if you can find it. [11:25] trying to compile for my massively expensive coprocessor [11:26] mungbean: Nvidia gpu? [11:26] intel phi [11:26] about £5k worth in each server [11:26] thats a lot of bitcoins [11:27] diplo: needs moar iprout2 [11:27] Looks like it might be a static route that I want to configure [11:27] iproute2 [11:27] (which I mainly use because I have fancy routing tables and stuff.) [11:28] (and because the non-iproute2 way of doing things is deprecated) [11:28] bigcalm: What OS ? [11:29] diplo: linux. But also on little black box called an X4 [11:30] meant distro really, as different ways of adding static routes on different distros [11:30] so CentOS it's route-eth<#> [11:30] in /etc/sysconfig/network-scripts/ I think from memory [11:30] Not sure if I've ever had to add a static route on ubuntu yet :) [11:31] On the server end it's an ubuntu install. On the ADSL end, it's Debian [11:31] On the X4, it's whatever iDigi make [11:32] If the servers are using the same gateways as the vpn you shouldn't need to add the routes though [11:32] Okay [11:33] "...each box I'll do route add -network 10.10.2.1/24 gw " [11:33] * Dave2 winces at non-iproute2 again :( [11:33] gwip being the IP address provided by the VPN? [11:33] ip route add! [11:33] not "route add" [11:34] Or the LAN IP of the router? 192.168.1.1 I think [11:35] Oh balls. I don't have root on the debian machine. Don't think I can add routes [11:37] Networking is doing my head in :( [11:38] If you don't have root you're probably not going to get very far [11:39] Oh, I have SSH access to the X4 device. And I can set static routes via its web interface [11:39] Hopefully I can do my testing from there [11:41] Oh, it's a weird shell [11:41] Very limited [11:42] * bigcalm sends a request to boss to have root access to his home server [11:46] When adding a static route, what is Metric for? [12:04] never used it myself but from a quick look it looks like priority of traffic [12:05] The simplest example of a metric is the weight value. Many different routers can use static routes and static routes can be assigned a weight. Higher weight means higher cost. This allows the administrator to create several routes to a destination and then set them up so that one will be preferred over the others [12:05] Probably more needed in high availability / bandwith heavy stuff I guess === alan_g is now known as alan_g|lunch === lee2 is now known as Cueball === schwuk_away is now known as schwuk === msm is now known as Guest8124 [12:50] found a small bug 1202662 [12:50] bug 1202662 in software-properties (Ubuntu) "--remove option text is wrong" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1202662 [12:52] !info minetest [12:52] minetest (source: minetest): InfiniMiner/Minecraft-inspired open game world. In component universe, is extra. Version 0.3.1+dfsg-4 (quantal), package size 797 kB, installed size 1959 kB [12:52] !info minetest unstable [12:52] minetest (source: minetest): Multiplayer infinite-world block sandbox. In component main, is extra. Version 0.4.7+repack-2 (unstable), package size 1752 kB, installed size 4036 kB [13:05] anyone know how I can get this working? http://bin.cakedc.com/view/802584391 [13:05] there are some redirects and it complains about the certificate [13:06] I tried the '--no-check-certificate' option but it just complains then: 'E: Command line option --no-check-certificate is not understood' [13:06] dogmatic69: cakedc requires login [13:07] diplo: wrong pate bin, one sec [13:07] http://bin.cakephp.org/view/1504967342 [13:07] Don't work with Cake, but can take a look.. think bigcalm works with Symphony that maybe closer [13:07] its nothing to do with cake [13:08] just using the bin :D [13:08] Ah, just saw the url :D [13:08] trying to install java7 [13:08] diplo: I have to manage 2 CakePHP 1.1 apps and several Symfony 1-2 apps. But I'd rather keep away from CakePHP ;) [13:08] :P [13:09] bigcalm: well 1.1 was about 25 years ago :P [13:09] I would not touch it tbh [13:09] 2.4 is cool though [13:09] ♫ it was 20 years ago today? [13:09]