[16:57] as far as the future of ubuntu to the consumer/business market, what are they planning to do in regards to integration/support for running certain critical applications (i.e. - Quickbooks with payroll for whatever latest calendar year it may be)? It seems to be the main thing keeping a majority of small business users from making the transition from microsoft. Myself being on of those in that possible customer base for their advan [16:57] ced suppo [16:57] rt they sell. [17:01] I think the future is smartphones and tablets, unfortunately. [17:01] Of Ubuntu, that is [17:01] That seems to be what Shuttleworth wants, anyway. [17:06] the commercial support didnt change, did it? [17:07] and to believe only smartphones and tablets would be the only future is a trap. ubuntu will keep the desktop because the whole package (desktop and mobile and tv) does make the difference in the game against the big ones (android, windows, redhat,...) [17:10] and quickbooks got a macos version. so talk to quickbooks if they offer a linux version [17:21] k1l_: I know, but the thing is that they're developing the mobile version at the expense of the desktop one; instead of taking the desktop version and forking it to make a mobile one, they're trying to make a single unified UI that "works" on both (the result being that the quality of both suffers because of the vastly different controls) [17:21] Frogging|work: the most work is to do on the mobile one [17:22] ubuntu got a running desktop. but not a running mobile so far. [17:22] Unity, the desktop UI that most people dislike, was designed for the purpose of being touch-friendly. This is the same mistake that Windows 8 made. [17:23] And it had the same result; nobody likes it because it destroys any possibility of an efficient workflo [17:23] workflow* [17:23] Frogging|work: dont mix the loud shouting from the "few" nerds who dont even use ubuntu with the opnion from the mainstream user [17:23] Frogging|work: :/ [17:23] dont tell me that "nobody can work with unity" [17:24] that is just stupid [17:24] Well for one thing, I can barely use it on my laptop (Intel graphics) because it has these ridiculous transparency effects and such that add little and slow it down. [17:24] you dont like unity? ok. you want a gnome2-desktop back? ok. but dont say nobody can work with unity [17:25] And they removed the one-click option to turn desktop effects on and off that they had a couple years ago [17:25] Mainstream user here. I love unity. [17:25] Why? [17:26] Tell me one thing about it that is better than gnome 2 or whatever it was that was there before [17:26] the problem right now is, that they will not invest alot of work into the old X-server+unity because they are working on the MIR-server with unity8 [17:27] One thing? I would say it has support directly from Canonical as that's what they are pushing. [17:27] Frogging|work: ever thought about that your learning of where to click in the gnome-menue of the last years, to find a app to start is not really considered intuitive or fast at all? [17:28] like i give you a mixed startmenue and you need to start a program. [17:28] Desync: That's irrelevant to the user experience. And just because they're pushing it doesn't mean by any stretch that it's good [17:29] good being an opinion of every individual user [17:29] granted I have no problem learning new things and actually enjoy it. Maybe im the minority on this topic [17:29] Frogging|work: or the space on the screen that is now free for more informations because the global menue saves that space [17:30] And about mir, what about this, huh? http://news.softpedia.com/news/Mir-Developers-Acknowledges-20-Performance-Drop-Over-the-X-Display-Server-369155.shtml [17:31] i do not have much experience working with UX in anything nix. Always been terminal stuff for me [17:31] Frogging|work: its still in development. did you think of that? [17:31] k1l_: Yes, but then there's this (one sec while I find the link) [17:32] http://www.zdnet.com/mark-shuttleworth-mir-has-delivered-what-we-hoped-7000017897/ [17:32] He said that a little over a week before that other article was posted [17:32] So it's delivered what they hoped, yet it's still 20% slower? What? [17:33] Frogging|work: they have lots of potential to at least get as fast as X with Xmir. at least! [17:33] Frogging|work: didnt you read that bit where the mir devs said that? [17:34] Where? [17:34] i thought you did a well research on that topic? [17:34] Also, that image in the first link is a bit weird... Looks like you have to make 2 clicks instead of 1 to open the terminal. [17:35] Just a sec [17:35] I do remember seeing something like that somewhere, but forget where [17:35] There are a few conflicting reports [17:36] But what's with the contradiction, anyway? Shuttleworth says that it's faster than X on his laptop, yet a week later an actual dev comes out and says that it's 20% slower [17:37] possibly the dev was using a different version? [17:38] Maybe it will end up being faster, maybe not. But the point is, what Shuttleworth is saying is rather suspicious. [17:41] http://blog.cooperteam.net/ Frogging|work [17:42] Hmm... [17:42] Who are they? Just curious [17:43] chris h rogers is one of the MIR devs [17:43] thought you knew something about MIR [17:47] I never said that, I just saw what I saw [17:48] Frogging|work: ok, then im telling you: you only saw on side of the medal