[16:57] <Desync>  as far as the future of ubuntu to the consumer/business market, what are they planning to do in regards to integration/support for running certain critical applications (i.e. - Quickbooks with payroll for whatever latest calendar year it may be)? It seems to be the main thing keeping a majority of small business users from making the transition from microsoft. Myself being on of those in that possible customer base for their advan
[16:57] <Desync> ced suppo
[16:57] <Desync>  rt they sell.
[17:01] <Frogging|work> I think the future is smartphones and tablets, unfortunately.
[17:01] <Frogging|work> Of Ubuntu, that is
[17:01] <Frogging|work> That seems to be what Shuttleworth wants, anyway.
[17:06] <k1l_> the commercial support didnt change, did it?
[17:07] <k1l_> and to believe only smartphones and tablets would be the only future is a trap. ubuntu will keep the desktop because the whole package (desktop and mobile and tv) does make the difference in the game against the big ones (android, windows, redhat,...)
[17:10] <k1l_> and quickbooks got a macos version. so talk to quickbooks if they offer a linux version
[17:21] <Frogging|work> k1l_: I know, but the thing is that they're developing the mobile version at the expense of the desktop one; instead of taking the desktop version and forking it to make a mobile one, they're trying to make a single unified UI that "works" on both (the result being that the quality of both suffers because of the vastly different controls)
[17:21] <k1l_> Frogging|work: the most work is to do on the mobile one
[17:22] <k1l_> ubuntu got a running desktop. but not a running mobile so far.
[17:22] <Frogging|work> Unity, the desktop UI that most people dislike, was designed for the purpose of being touch-friendly. This is the same mistake that Windows 8 made.
[17:23] <Frogging|work> And it had the same result; nobody likes it because it destroys any possibility of an efficient workflo
[17:23] <Frogging|work> workflow*
[17:23] <k1l_> Frogging|work: dont mix the loud shouting from the "few" nerds who dont even use ubuntu with the opnion from the mainstream user
[17:23] <k1l_> Frogging|work: :/
[17:23] <k1l_> dont tell me that "nobody can work with unity"
[17:24] <k1l_> that is just stupid
[17:24] <Frogging|work> Well for one thing, I can barely use it on my laptop (Intel graphics) because it has these ridiculous transparency effects and such that add little and slow it down.
[17:24] <k1l_> you dont like unity? ok. you want a gnome2-desktop back? ok. but dont say nobody can work with unity
[17:25] <Frogging|work> And they removed the one-click option to turn desktop effects on and off that they had a couple years ago
[17:25] <Desync> Mainstream user here. I love unity.
[17:25] <Frogging|work> Why?
[17:26] <Frogging|work> Tell me one thing about it that is better than gnome 2 or whatever it was that was there before
[17:26] <k1l_> the problem right now is, that they will not invest alot of work into the old X-server+unity because they are working on the MIR-server with unity8
[17:27] <Desync> One thing? I would say it has support directly from Canonical as that's what they are pushing.
[17:27] <k1l_> Frogging|work: ever thought about that your learning of where to click in the gnome-menue of the last years, to find a app to start is not really considered intuitive or fast at all?
[17:28] <k1l_> like i give you a mixed startmenue and you need to start a program.
[17:28] <Frogging|work> Desync: That's irrelevant to the user experience. And just because they're pushing it doesn't mean by any stretch that it's good
[17:29] <Desync> good being an opinion of every individual user
[17:29] <Desync> granted I have no problem learning new things and actually enjoy it. Maybe im the minority on this topic
[17:29] <k1l_> Frogging|work: or the space on the screen that is now free for more informations because the global menue saves that space
[17:30] <Frogging|work> And about mir, what about this, huh? http://news.softpedia.com/news/Mir-Developers-Acknowledges-20-Performance-Drop-Over-the-X-Display-Server-369155.shtml
[17:31] <Desync> i do not have much experience working with UX in anything nix. Always been terminal stuff for me
[17:31] <k1l_> Frogging|work: its still in development. did you think of that?
[17:31] <Frogging|work> k1l_: Yes, but then there's this (one sec while I find the link)
[17:32] <Frogging|work> http://www.zdnet.com/mark-shuttleworth-mir-has-delivered-what-we-hoped-7000017897/
[17:32] <Frogging|work> He said that a little over a week before that other article was posted
[17:32] <Frogging|work> So it's delivered what they hoped, yet it's still 20% slower? What?
[17:33] <k1l_> Frogging|work: they have lots of potential to at least get as fast as X with Xmir. at least!
[17:33] <k1l_> Frogging|work: didnt you read that bit where the mir devs said that?
[17:34] <Frogging|work> Where?
[17:34] <k1l_> i thought you did a well research on that topic?
[17:34] <Frogging|work> Also, that image in the first link is a bit weird... Looks like you have to make 2 clicks instead of 1 to open the terminal.
[17:35] <Frogging|work> Just a sec
[17:35] <Frogging|work> I do remember seeing something like that somewhere, but forget where
[17:35] <Frogging|work> There are a few conflicting reports
[17:36] <Frogging|work> But what's with the contradiction, anyway? Shuttleworth says that it's faster than X on his laptop, yet a week later an actual dev comes out and says that it's 20% slower
[17:37] <Desync> possibly the dev was using a different version?
[17:38] <Frogging|work> Maybe it will end up being faster, maybe not. But the point is, what Shuttleworth is saying is rather suspicious.
[17:41] <k1l_> http://blog.cooperteam.net/  Frogging|work
[17:42] <Frogging|work> Hmm...
[17:42] <Frogging|work> Who are they? Just curious
[17:43] <k1l_> chris h rogers is one of the MIR devs
[17:43] <k1l_> thought you knew something about MIR
[17:47] <Frogging|work> I never said that, I just saw what I saw
[17:48] <k1l_> Frogging|work: ok, then im telling you: you only saw on side of the medal