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* sbeattie waves16:42
meetingologyMeeting started Mon Jul 22 16:43:22 2013 UTC.  The chair is jdstrand. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.16:43
meetingologyAvailable commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired16:43
jdstrandThe meeting agenda can be found at:16:43
jdstrand[LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting16:43
jdstrand[TOPIC] Announcements16:43
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Announcements
jdstrandChristian Kuersteiner (ckuerste) provided a debdiff for precise for osc (LP: #1197639). Your work is very much appreciated and will keep Ubuntu users secure. Great job! :)16:43
ubottuLaunchpad bug 1197639 in osc (Ubuntu) " Improper sanitization of terminal emulator escape sequences when displaying build log and build status" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/119763916:43
jdstrand[TOPIC] Weekly stand-up report16:45
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly stand-up report
jdstrandI'll go first16:45
jdstrandI'm in the happy place16:46
jdstrandlast week was crazy and I still have to patch pilot16:46
jdstrandI'm preparing for the IoM demo and sprint this week16:47
jdstrandthere are also pending updates16:47
jdstranda bunch of new MIRs came in too, including the mir MIR16:47
jdstrandso, we'll have to come up with a plan for all those too16:48
jdstrandI think that's it from me16:48
jdstrandmdeslaur: you're up16:48
mdeslaurI'm on triage this week16:48
mdeslaurand there's a new mysql version to package up/test/release16:48
mdeslaurdo I'll probably be spending my time on that16:48
mdeslaurI still have a couple of updates in the ppa to test16:49
mdeslaurthat's it from me16:49
mdeslaursbeattie: you're up16:49
sbeattieI'm on apparmor stuff again this week.16:49
sbeattiePriority is stuff for the IoM demo, namely getting the apparmor hook implemented, now that the some the details of that have been finalized.16:50
sbeattieI have some other misc apparmor stuff to pick up.16:50
sbeattiethat's pretty much it for me.16:50
sbeattietyhicks: you're up16:50
tyhicksI'm doing final testing on the apparmor changes that I made to support the DBus policy syntax16:51
tyhicksWhat's left is coercing the regression suite to let me launch a confined dbus service and a confined client to test the peer=(label=/foo) conditional16:52
tyhicksI plan on pushing everything to the dbus-dev PPA today16:52
tyhicksthen I'll switch to the content-hub work items16:53
tyhicksafter that, I'm still trying to get to the ecryptfs patch review that I mentioned last week16:53
tyhicksthat's it for me16:53
tyhicksjj is out16:53
tyhickssarnold: you're up16:53
sarnoldI've got some apparmor patch review, and five MIR audits, likely I'll get through two or three of the MIR audits this week.. I'm still hopeful for an apparmor 2.8.2 release, but since I don't think it blocks anything else, it might flal through the cracks again this week.16:54
sbeattiesarnold: yeah, sorry I didn't push on the 2.8.2 release with you last week16:55
sarnoldoh yes, Thomas Hood has been extremely helpful in launchpad tryig to help me fix up my dnsmasq annoyances, so I'll probably put some time towards that -- he's friendly and willing to help, gotta hit while the iron is hot :)16:55
sarnoldsbeattie: *nod* same here16:56
sarnoldchrisccoulson_: you're up16:56
chrisccoulson_hello :)16:56
chrisccoulson_at the end of last week i started testing the latest chromium. i'm going to finish that this evening and then publish it16:57
chrisccoulson_other than that, i've had another busy week hacking on oxide. we have a meeting with stakeholders tomorrow, and i might even be able to show it working then as well (if it goes well this evening)16:58
chrisccoulson_but certainly, i aim to have it working this week16:58
jdstrandoh, nice :)16:58
chrisccoulson_i think that's me done16:58
jdstrandsbeattie: meant to ask during your bit. is the click hook still on track for the demo?16:59
sbeattieyes, I think so.17:00
jdstrandsbeattie: is there anything I can play with today? I can wait til tomorrow if needed17:00
* jdstrand needs to package evilapp for it17:00
sbeattienot quite yet, still need to make a little more progress on it.17:02
jdstrand[TOPIC] Highlighted packages17:03
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Highlighted packages
jdstrandThe Ubuntu Security team will highlight some community-supported packages that might be good candidates for updating and or triaging. If you would like to help Ubuntu and not sure where to start, this is a great way to do so.17:03
jdstrandSee https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdateProcedures for details and if you have any questions, feel free to ask in #ubuntu-security. To find out other ways of helping out, please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/GettingInvolved.17:03
jdstrand[TOPIC] Miscellaneous and Questions17:04
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Miscellaneous and Questions
jdstrandDoes anyone have any other questions or items to discuss?17:04
jdstrandmdeslaur, sbeattie, tyhicks, sarnold, chrisccoulson_: thanks!17:07
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Milestone Targeted Work Items (ogasawara)
meetingologyMeeting ended Mon Jul 22 17:07:59 2013 UTC.17:08
meetingologyMinutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-07-22-16.43.moin.txt17:08
meetingologyMinutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-07-22-16.43.html17:08
mdeslaurthanks jdstrand!17:08
sarnoldthanks jdstrand!17:08
sbeattiejdstrand: thanks!17:08
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mdzpitti, ping19:53
pittihey mdz, how are you?19:53
mdzpitti, sorry it took me so long to send out the minutes from last TB19:54
mdzyou were supposed to chair this time but I was not sure if you realized19:54
pittiI didn't, but I can19:54
mdzare you able?19:54
mdzoh good, thank19:54
rickspencer3hi pitti and mdz, I am here this time19:55
mdzhello rickspencer319:55
rickspencer3sorry, I missed last time, I was on holiday, and then didn't know that I was invited to the last one :/19:56
pittikees, soren: here?19:57
pittistgraber sent apologies19:57
cjwatsonstgraber and I are inna pub19:57
* smb whished he could be19:58
pittimdz: (moderated, thanks for the summary)19:59
* stgraber waves19:59
mdzbtw, who moderates technical-board@?19:59
mdzI think my posts there are being caught in moderation19:59
pittimdz: I, amongst others; but I didn't notice posts from you20:00
mdzlistadmin says it's empty though20:00
mdzhmm, I'll just resend20:01
pittimdz: yeah, I cleared it as part of my u-d-a@ moderation20:01
pittibut there was nothing from you20:01
meetingologyMeeting started Mon Jul 22 20:01:39 2013 UTC.  The chair is pitti. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.20:01
meetingologyAvailable commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired20:01
pittihey soren20:01
pitti#topic action review20:02
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: action review
pittikees to review outstanding provisional MREs -- as he doesn't seem to be here, I guess we defer this?20:02
pittiI don't see anything else, did I miss something?20:02
pitti#topic development series alias name20:03
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: development series alias name
keeshi! here now20:03
pittiapparently this was being discussed last time, with: current proposals are "rolling" (preferred by Rick) and "next' (preferred by the TB).20:03
keesstill looking at mres20:03
pittioh, hey kees!20:03
pittikees: ok, so carrying over is ok?20:03
keesyeah, thanks20:04
pittiOOI, does "preferred by the TB" mean that everyone else on the TB likes "next" better, or was it "just" a majority?20:04
keeseveryone preferred "next"20:05
pitti"rolling" seems to be more of a goal/promise still, while we might need to change "next" again in the future which would make the change pointless20:05
ScottKSince the last meeting I sent in a request for extending the KDE MRE, does that get covered in kees' action or discussed separately?20:05
pittiScottK: I think it's a separate discussion, kees' was only for the existing provisional MREs20:05
mdzpitti, it was unanimous among the TB20:05
pittiScottK: I replied on-list20:05
keesScottK: separate, I was reviewing existing for their update histories20:05
mdzbut we wanted rickspencer3 to have a chance to weigh in20:05
rickspencer3is it time to discuss "rolling" vs. "next"? or was that a pre-amble?20:05
pittirickspencer3: yes, please go20:05
mdzrickspencer3, it is time20:05
cjwatsonmight need to change> could you elaborate?20:06
pittimdz: (two more of your "no more re-election for me" mails on tb@, FYI; but I got the original alreadY)20:06
pitticjwatson: I mean at a time when we actually drop the non-LTS releases20:06
pittiand have an actual rolling release20:06
pittiAFAIUI, this was merely deferred, not entirely rejected by sabdfl?20:06
cjwatsonI am mostly neutral, i.e. mostly just want the discussion to be done20:07
pittibut "rolling" at this time is aiming a bit high indeed, although we do better than I initially feared20:07
keesthat will be a sad day (dropping non-LTS)20:07
mdzpitti, still zero on https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/technical-board/2013-July/thread.html20:07
pittiwith 9 months of support it's not that much of a release anyway20:07
cjwatsonI had a very slight preference for next I suppose20:07
rickspencer3kees, well, naturally I beg to differ20:07
keesrickspencer3: :)20:07
pittiI don't have a strong opinion, but I slightly prefer "rolling" as that's what the effect is for the user20:08
keesi prefer the short stable to long stable20:08
rickspencer3is this the time when I should make my case?20:08
pittirickspencer3: please, just speak up20:08
rickspencer3ok, first, thanks for inviting me20:08
keesthe 6 month cadance, is to me, what makes ubuntu so great.20:08
pittirickspencer3: (we don't have a formal "you have the mike" usually)20:08
kees(if I could spell)20:08
rickspencer3so, I think that "rolling" is much better than "next"20:08
rickspencer3the "development" release is really usable every day, and has been since 12.0420:08
rickspencer3this sym link will provide the experience of a rolling release, you are always on the tip, and it flips over when we release20:09
rickspencer3I think "rolling" describes the experience quite well, and "next" does not describe this experience20:09
rickspencer3I also think the notion of "next" is a result of thinking about Ubuntu development the way we used to do it20:09
mdz"rolling" to me implies a continuous flow, rather than stepwise upgrades20:10
rickspencer3calling it "next" suggests that it will only be useful in the future20:10
cjwatsonone of my concerns is that we still have DIF, and that there seems to be pressure against changing rust20:10
rickspencer3mdz well, I think that's exactly what the sym link will provide20:10
keesit's not a release, and I want there to be no confusion. "usable" does not mean "stable" which is what a release means to me.20:10
rickspencer3kees, well, that's fine20:10
pittimdz: and that's what it is, isn't it?20:10
rickspencer3I'm not sure how to express it then20:10
kees"next" is what it is. it's unfinished20:11
keesand seems nicer than calling the symlink "usable" :)20:11
rickspencer3kees, but that suggests that you are using something that will reach some point of completeness later20:11
pittiI find "next" a little unspecific -- the next what?20:11
mdzpitti, not to me. "rolling" is more like debian unstable or testing, with only incremental updates20:11
mdzwhat we're talking about here is a big batch of updates every 6 months20:11
pittierr, do we?20:12
rickspencer3mdz no20:12
keesnext ubuntu release is what it is. you're always running what's next.20:12
mdzok, I'm confused then20:12
rickspencer3what it would mean is that you were using what we would essentially call the "development version"20:12
pittiI thought right now {next,rolling} == saucy, and it would be t as soon as we release saucy20:12
mdzit's been a month and I hardly remember the discussion20:12
pittii. e. "always the devel release"20:12
rickspencer3then the day that version releases, the sym link gets moved to the next version20:12
keesmdz: it's an alias like "sid" or "unstable"20:12
cjwatsonwe don't in practice roll for the last three months or so20:12
pittiright, it sometimes flies and sometimes crawls20:12
mdzI don't really mind what it's called then20:13
rickspencer3cjwatson, actually, I think we d20:13
cjwatsonwe so font20:13
mdzall I remember is that hackles went up when "rolling release" was mentioned20:13
cjwatsongah swype20:13
pittiI'd prefer devel > rolling > next, but no strong opinion to argue about it for a long time20:13
rickspencer3cjwatson, maybe I don't know what you mean20:13
rickspencer3but it seems to me that I get lots of changes at the end of the cycle, sometimes big ones20:14
* ScottK raises hands for hackles over rolling. It seems inaccurate.20:14
keesright. it's not a release and "rolling" is already too associated with that concept.20:14
cjwatsonwe stop taking new upstreams routinely20:14
rickspencer3cjwatson, true20:14
cjwatsonthat is what people expect from rolling20:14
rickspencer3it slows down, but we take many big changes20:14
cjwatsonfrom Canonical20:14
rickspencer3we take a kernel, no?20:14
ScottKThe big changes at the end are because people can't keep a schedule, not because it's supposed to be that way.20:14
cjwatsonnot really from elsewhere20:15
keeskernel is frozen almost before  anything else20:15
cjwatsona bit, but I really do not think that is what people expect20:15
cjwatsonthey want us to just keep going and not freeze20:15
rickspencer3to me, the essence of "rolling" is really that you just subscribe to the sym link20:15
rickspencer3you expect your desktop always works20:15
rickspencer3and you get changes as fast as Ubuntu puts them in20:16
cjwatsonI honestly don't think that's what everyone else means20:16
rickspencer3and there never is a "release"20:16
cjwatsonI am happy to make the symlink work and would like to20:16
cjwatsonbut it's not rolling20:16
keesrickspencer3: i have no problem with the idea of the symlink. we all agreed that was great. just the name was the issue.20:16
rickspencer3kees, sure, it;s fine20:17
pittiwe don't have a good precedent for rolling to compare it against really20:17
rickspencer3I was asked to come and explain why I liked "rolling"20:17
rickspencer3I appreciate the opportunity20:17
pittieven sid isn't truly rolling in that sense, it had been frozen for over a year20:17
rickspencer3I don't really like "next" at all20:17
rickspencer3but, I am not on the TB20:17
pittiFWIW, I don't like "next" either, it doesn't tell me anything; I'd rather have "devel" then, as that's what it actually is -- the current development series20:18
keesrickspencer3: we reviewed the suggested list from uds. if rolling is bad and next is bad, we need a new list, i think20:18
rickspencer3I think I would prefer for the TB to make a decision20:18
rickspencer3If it's arbitrary, then I would ask that you pick "rolling"20:18
rickspencer3but if it's not, I really would support whatever20:19
rickspencer3kees, does that make sense?20:19
mdzthis is basically invisible to users, right?20:19
mdzwho is the name important to?20:19
ScottKExcept they'll have to opt in to it somehow20:19
ScottKThey'll be opting in to a name.20:19
mdzthey will?20:19
keesi don't want any mistake made about it being a release. that's my criteria20:19
rickspencer3mdz yes20:19
mdzseems like we would have the opportunity to describe in prose what they're getting20:19
pittiit somehow needs to be exposed in software-properties20:19
mdzrather than just giving them a word20:19
rickspencer3but we could describe the feature in the GUI however we wanted20:19
rickspencer3so, you make a good point20:20
rickspencer3it's doubly arbitrary20:20
mdzand yet it seems important to you and ScottK20:20
pittikees: in that regard, terminology is already flawed; neither "rolling" nor "devel" are actual releases20:20
pittithey are precisely the series which are *not* released, after all :)20:20
cjwatsonwe were also going to let developers upload to it20:21
kees"rolling" has alreadt been publically associated with being a release20:21
ScottKIf it wasn't already a package name, I'd suggest horizon, since no matter how long you go towards it, you never get there.20:21
kees"devel" is accurate, but so many things are called devel20:21
pittibut how is "rolling" a release, in any sense of the word?20:21
cjwatsonso it's not arbitrary,it will influence developer behaviour20:21
cjwatsonand I'm20:21
ScottKpitti: It's not and that was part of the problem with the proposal.  We ought not mix this up with that.20:21
cjwatsonconcerned that it's incompatible with our current freeze processes20:22
keespitti: it is not pitti it wouldn't be in reality, but existing persepctions will confuse it20:22
mdzhow about we agree to delegate to http://www.dotomator.com/web20.html20:22
rickspencer3mdz fine "Voope" it is20:22
mdzI like "zoomdog"20:22
keeszoomdog. winnar20:23
* ScottK got "Gabify".20:23
ScottKI think that's what's going on right now.20:23
mdzI want to cry when I think of all the brain power that has already been absorbed by this question20:24
pittiso, as this is a rather classic bikeshedding argument and we could be here all night, how about we just vote on the existing proposals and get it done? or rickspencer3, would you like to discuss more?20:24
keesrickspencer3: you don't like "next" but would be okay with it since it's not very visible?20:24
rickspencer3pitti, I've said all I can say, I think20:24
mdzpitti, +1 on drawing to a quick conclusion20:24
rickspencer3kees, I don't like "next", but I don't think me being "okay with it" is terribly apropos20:24
rickspencer3I think this is a TB decision20:25
rickspencer3and I won't quit Ubuntu if I don't get my way20:25
pittiso, our options are "next" and "rolling", or were there any others?20:25
keesrickspencer3: well, I'd prefer something you're happy with20:25
pittihas "devel" even been on the table from the UDS discussin?20:25
mdzall things considered, we can't possibly consider all things20:25
keespitti: the list we looked at was from uds,but I can't find the url20:25
rickspencer3kees, I don't see how we will get past this20:25
rickspencer3in a way that makes everyone totally happy20:26
keesdevel was on it.20:26
rickspencer3and it is such a small small thing in the scheme of things20:26
cjwatsonI would prefer tofind something everyone likes, but that doesn't seem possible20:26
pittikees: ah, ok; so in between rolling, next, and devel?20:26
rickspencer3rolling it is!20:26
rickspencer3good choice20:26
rickspencer3next topic?20:26
keesand things like head, master, tip, etc20:26
cjwatsonI'm not vehemently against rolling, but I see definite problems with it20:27
pittifor counting I propose three separate votes, one for each name; multiple +1 allowed, the one with the most votes wins; ok?20:27
pitti(I can't figure out CC at this time of the night)20:27
mdzbut risks a tie20:28
keesthat's probably best20:28
* rickspencer3 braces20:28
mdzat least it's fast20:28
pitti#vote series name for "always at development series" is: "rolling"20:28
meetingologyPlease vote on: series name for "always at development series" is: "rolling"20:28
meetingologyPublic votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)20:28
meetingology+1 received from pitti20:28
meetingology-1 received from kees20:28
meetingology+0 received from mdz20:28
meetingology-1 received from stgraber20:28
meetingology+0 received from cjwatson20:28
soren-1 (zoomdog ftw1)20:28
meetingology-1 (zoomdog ftw1) received from soren20:28
meetingologyVoting ended on: series name for "always at development series" is: "rolling"20:28
meetingologyVotes for:1 Votes against:3 Abstentions:220:28
meetingologyMotion denied20:28
pitti#vote series name for "always at development series" is: "next"20:28
meetingologyPlease vote on: series name for "always at development series" is: "next"20:28
meetingologyPublic votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)20:28
meetingology+0 received from mdz20:28
meetingology-1 received from pitti20:28
meetingology+1 received from kees20:29
meetingology+1 received from soren20:29
meetingology+1 received from cjwatson20:29
meetingology+1 received from stgraber20:29
meetingologyVoting ended on: series name for "always at development series" is: "next"20:29
meetingologyVotes for:4 Votes against:1 Abstentions:120:29
meetingologyMotion carried20:29
pitti#vote series name for "always at development series" is: "devel"20:29
meetingologyPlease vote on: series name for "always at development series" is: "devel"20:29
meetingologyPublic votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)20:29
meetingology+1 received from pitti20:29
meetingology+1 received from cjwatson20:29
meetingology+0 received from kees20:29
meetingology+1 received from soren20:29
meetingology+1 received from stgraber20:29
meetingology+1 received from mdz20:29
meetingologyVoting ended on: series name for "always at development series" is: "devel"20:29
meetingologyVotes for:5 Votes against:0 Abstentions:120:29
meetingologyMotion carried20:29
sorenWow. Unexpected.20:29
mdzI demand a recount with condorcet voting20:30
pittiso we name the developmetn series ... "devel"?20:30
pittimdz: if you know the procedure, please do20:30
sorenSo we spend weeks debating about "next" vs "rolling" and end up choosing "devel". I love it.20:30
mdzpitti, kidding20:30
ScottKIt's possible there was some strategic voting there.20:30
sorenIt's no zoomdog, but hey.20:30
rickspencer3Interestingly I just bought a condo in a small condo building. There is no storage, so no where to store my bike. So, in a couple of weeks I need to start a literal discussion about a bike shed.20:30
cjwatsonScottK:not from me20:31
beunorickspencer3, surely it will be names rolling? :)20:31
pittiScottK: order shouldn't have mattered?20:31
* ScottK was kidding (mostly)20:31
keesi voted how I felt. devel over rolling, but not really FOR it20:31
rickspencer3it's funny that we have so much trouble naming this "thing"20:31
pittiso, anyone who wants to propose something new, please start a new thread and try to convince people that it's really a lot better :)20:31
ScottKThe bikeshed is painted now.  that's the main thing.20:32
pittirickspencer3: thanks for being at the meeting20:32
pitti#topic Discussion and vote on OpenSSL as a system library. Follow-up fro mthe last couple of meetings and ML discussion.20:32
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Discussion and vote on OpenSSL as a system library. Follow-up fro mthe last couple of meetings and ML discussion.
* ScottK thought that was voted on last time.20:32
pittiI thought this had already been concluded at the last meeting, according to mdz's summary?20:32
keesthat's settled20:32
mdzyes, I thought so too20:32
mdzI didn't get to updating the wiki20:32
pittiack, thanks20:32
mdzI barely got the minutes out20:32
pitti#topic Xen MRE for upstream stable releases (Stefan Bader)20:33
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Xen MRE for upstream stable releases (Stefan Bader)
keesif there have been good srus, I' for a provisional. it sounds like it gets good testing20:33
pittiI didn't reply because even from my years-long SRU time I can't remember a xen SRU20:33
smbkees, not sure what exactly you mean by some good srus20:33
keessmbhave there been xen SRUs already?20:34
smbpitti, Usually only cves20:34
pittiit seems a bit surprising that maintenance suddenly has gone up, but if it did, I'm fine with a provisional MRE as well20:34
keesthat didn't have regressions?20:34
smbBut since a while there is also upstream stable releases20:34
smb(and probably none yet really looked there)20:34
pittismb: right, but these aren't subject to SRU restrictions anyway20:34
smbNo, I started to think about it as20:34
smba) it is a bit like we already do with the kernel20:35
smbb) security patches are based on the latest stable series20:35
smbAnd the upstream stable releases go through reviews and afaik through regression testing20:35
smbSo it just seems a sensible approach to keep the version maintained even after release without too much more work20:36
pittismb: what kind of testing do, or can we do, on proposed xen updates? like, running various existing test suites on various ubuntu releases under xen ?20:36
pittismb: and what magnitude of changes do we talk about here? like, the occasional bug fix, or lots of reegineering?20:37
pitti(the latter would actually surprise me)20:37
smbpitti, I am not sure there is really anything going on testing wise beyond the tests I do20:37
smband those are more manual by putting the updated hypervisor on two testboxes (amd and intel) and then fire up thy dom0 and pvm and hvm guest20:38
smbpitti, And for magnitude, the number of check-ins may seem large but it is restricted to bugfixes and small contain improvements not re-engenieering20:38
pittiah, reading the proposed diffs now, it's quite a list20:38
smbpitti, mostly because I took the commit from git20:39
pittiso yeah, not quite possible to verify them all, we need some good regression testing there20:39
smbI mean the short version oof commit ids20:39
smbpitti, because we don't trust upstream?20:40
keesi think we're better off with the fixes than without, so I'd likea provisional mre. if things stay smooth, it should get full mre quickly20:40
pittismb: well, with that magnitude of changes it's not about trust, but about throwing more eyes on it, plus testing it in the ubuntu specific environment/binary build etc, which upstream can't do20:41
pittismb: i. e. a newer xen package on precise might behave differently than what upstream tested on a different kernel?20:41
smbpitti, I would always keep with the same minor version (so precise is xen 4.1.x and remains on that stream)20:42
smbFor raring it would be 4.2.x20:42
pittismb: I think if we can define some regression testing, like "boot the last N releases/LTS default install and verify some list of things (networking, file system test suite, etc.)", we have some standard process which we can even automate20:42
pittismb: right20:42
smbpitti, Ah well ok. Though in some way I do those things but the question is how to document and have a tickoff list20:43
pittiso a comment like "Would like to see this as upgrading to 13.04/xen 4.2.1 broke pci-e passthrough for me but is fixed in 4.2.2." suggests that upstream microreleases are good to get in, but also that xen is not completely regression proof (which is certainly understandable between major releases)20:43
pittismb: right, hence my question how we currently test them20:43
pittismb: doing these manually sounds cumbersome20:43
pittiI agree to kees' "pro provisional MRE", we can discuss some verification strategy with the SRU team in these "update to x.y.z" bugs20:44
pitticjwatson, soren, mdz, stgraber, any objections? ^20:45
pittimdz: please go ahead20:45
stgraberI'm fine with a provisional MRE20:45
mdzoh, sorry, I meant no20:45
pittiah :)20:45
cjwatsonno objections20:45
mdzyes I support a provisional MRE20:45
pittigreat, that's settled; smb, thanks for joining20:46
* smb goes back melting20:46
pitti#agreed provisional MRE for Xen, with defining more formal testing on the first SRU with the SRU team20:46
pitti#topic extending KDE MRE (ScottK)20:46
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: extending KDE MRE (ScottK)
pittiI'm mostly +1 on this (as I said on the ML), with the exception of lightdm-kde where I would like to know first what kind of changes goes into it20:47
* ScottK is researching that now20:48
stgraberWhen was that sent tl the ML?20:48
cjwatsonlink would be good20:48
pittimy gut feeling is that we should be rather careful with this, and while it's certainly ok to update to new upstream microreleases, the individual changes ought to be reviewed more carefully than for the apps20:48
ScottKstgraber: Wed Jul 17 15:37:22 201320:48
pittihttps://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/technical-board/2013-July/001666.html was ScottK's mail20:49
pittihm, my response hasn't gotten to the archive yet20:49
ScottKI got it though.20:49
pittiother than what I said above, I just said "I experienced several of those during my active ~ubuntu-sru time and20:49
pittican confirm this."20:49
pittithose == KDE SRUs20:49
stgraberhmm, must have missed this... and no access to email at the moment20:49
ScottKWe just finished doing 4.10.5 last week.20:50
pittiScottK: yeah, the magic of CC: :)20:50
stgraberlist looks reasonable to me20:51
* stgraber looks some more20:51
pittito me as well, with the only "paranoia" bit that jumps out being lightdm-kde20:52
pittialthough I guess that's mostly the chrome, not the plumbings20:52
ScottKWe don't have an immediate need for that as raring has the current release.20:52
ScottKYes, it should be just the front end bits.20:52
stgraberlightdm-kde is a separate frontend for lightdm, so if it's maintained by the kubntu folks with the same process as other kde packages, I'm fine with it20:54
keesyeah, I agree with pitti. looks good with questions about lightdm-kde. :)20:54
pittiand to be fair, I would have counted all of these as "KDE" as per https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates/MicroReleaseExceptions anyway ..20:54
ScottKOK.  We've been pretty strict about limiting it to the core KDE.20:55
pittiok, so it seems no further questions/objections?20:55
pittiScottK: so, seems we have a winner!20:56
pittiScottK: do you want to keep lightdm-kde in the list, or rather put it back to reviewing individual changes?20:56
pittiTBH I don't have a really good idea how sensitive it would be to different hw/acceleration and the like20:57
ScottKLet's wait until there's an update and then I'll bring it back with a concrete example in hand.20:57
pitti#topic Scan the mailing list archive for anything we missed20:57
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Scan the mailing list archive for anything we missed
pittinothing else that I can see20:58
ScottKIf the archive was up to date, there would be something.20:58
pittimy mailbox also doesn't have anything else20:58
pittiand mutt makes them stand out in green for me :)20:58
ScottKNot that we expect the TB to act on it today, but Laney, on behalf of the TB, sent out a proposal on modifying PPU.20:58
ScottKMessage-ID: <20130722200701.GC22297@iota>20:59
pittioh, in fact I just got it20:59
ScottK(I got a copy via the TB list)20:59
pittibut it's longish, perhaps we could give us some time to digest20:59
ScottKThis is something to review and consider.20:59
mdzah, hadn't seen that as I was looking at the archive20:59
mdzreading now20:59
mdzah, yes, we're out of time anyway20:59
pittiI propose to carry?20:59
ScottKYes.  I wanted to bring it to your attention to reivew.20:59
pitti#topic beer20:59
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: beer
pittierr, I meant20:59
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Milestone Targeted Work Items (ogasawara)
meetingologyMeeting ended Mon Jul 22 20:59:59 2013 UTC.20:59
meetingologyMinutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-07-22-20.01.moin.txt20:59
meetingologyMinutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-07-22-20.01.html20:59
pittithanks everyone!21:00
keesthanks pitti!21:00
ScottKFInished 1 second early even.21:00
mdzthanks pitti21:02
pittimdz: creating https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TechnicalBoard/TeamReports/13/July now, in case you want to add your report there, too21:02
mdzpitti, I looked for that last time and couldn't even find the page. it seemed like that whole wiki structure was dead21:02
mdzmaybe it was just lagging?21:02
ScottKpitti: FYI, I've updated the MRE page to reflect the KDE related changes today.21:14
pittiScottK: ah splendid, thanks! I was just about to do it, I sent the minutes to uda now21:15
ScottKI didn't do anything with xen.21:16
pittiright, I'll do that21:16
pittihm, I sent a mail wrt. autopkgtest to u-d-a this morning; quo vadis, ML archive?21:16
pittiadded Xen, I just don't have an u-d-a@ ML link for it yet21:19
pittithat's it, good night everyone!21:19
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