SquirrelNutsHi, I'm having an issue flashing back to Android from Ubuntu Touch.  My backup is on my PC, but my PC is not recognizing my phone, I assume because USB Debugging is not on.  I also can't seem to download a ROM though the Ubuntu browser.  I have TWRP, but everything was wiped, so no ROM's or backups are on my phone. Would someone be able to help me out?  On a nexus 4 by the way.01:32
wilee-nileeSquirrelNuts, Can't you download it from the fastboot recovery01:33
wilee-nileeyou in linux or windows01:33
SquirrelNutsDownload a ROM from recovery?01:33
SquirrelNutsI dont have Ubuntu PC01:34
wilee-nileeSquirrelNuts, what is the access tool used in windows?01:34
SquirrelNutsI don't know what you mean.01:34
wilee-nileeSquirrelNuts, I wondered if there is a tool run in windows to do many things, for example I have a nexus 7 I use the google nexus tool kit it does it all loading roms rooting backing up and much more.01:37
SquirrelNutsOh, yes, I used Wugz Toolkit for all stuff.  But it useless because it cant run adb commands without usb debugging enabled.01:38
wilee-nileeSquirrelNuts, If it were me I would look at the side load from recovery for the stock or you backup rom, just a guess though.01:39
wilee-nileeI think you can use  the terminal in windows to load stuff, in linux you can, but as you have noticed without the usb debugging running it is harder.01:40
wilee-nileeyou might try #android as well01:41
SquirrelNutsOk, thanks.  I'll google how to run adb w/o debugging01:42
AbuAyyoubHello everyone.01:51
AbuAyyoubI was wondering if someone could answer a simple question for me. Will I be able to install ubuntu touch on any old-rooted android phone? I have a beloved  Japanese Sharp SH7218u flip-phone that runs 2.2 Gingerbread and I think that Ubuntu OS on it would be awesome considering I can't upgrade it. Is this something that would be possible like being able to install linux on virtually any PC? or will it need to be configured for specific devices?01:52
xnoxAbuAyyoub: to enable a new device, a port needs to be done. At the moment all ports are Ice-cream sandwich based as far as I can tell. Is there a cyanogenmod available for that device? that would be the first step.02:22
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dejelloAny updates for porting yet?03:02
SeechaySooo just a couple of questions, how do you go back a screen on the Nexus 7 o.o03:16
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rickspencer3hi didrocks ogra_`05:29
didrockshey rickspencer305:29
rickspencer3so, I guess today is about getting to green on the dashboard?05:30
rickspencer3didrocks, ^ ?05:30
* rickspencer3 brews strong cup of coffee05:31
didrocksrickspencer3: it is AFAIK :)05:32
rickspencer3looks like the tests are running over the weekend, but they failed for the apps05:32
rickspencer3pitti, good morning05:33
rickspencer3didrocks,  is it the case that auto-pilot needs a bug fix to run those tests, or do the tests just need to be fixed?05:37
didrocksrickspencer3: I would guess it's the case of tests needing to be fixed, if those packages went to distro, they pass on desktop05:38
didrocksrickspencer3: but I think upstream should do the full analyze, I've tons of emails to answer to get Mir ASAP in distro05:38
rickspencer3didrocks, do you know who from the applications team can answer the question definitively, who would be awake now r soon?05:38
rickspencer3didrocks, I think they did that analysis on Friday05:38
didrocksrickspencer3: osomon should be one of the first european folk05:38
rickspencer3didrocks, and ack, I'll follow up with gema and whoever from the apps team05:39
didrocksrickspencer3: do you want me to stop on click packages and mir and track that?05:39
rickspencer3didrocks, no05:39
rickspencer3I'll follow up with osomon if/when he's up05:39
didrocksgreat ;)05:39
rickspencer3gema, good morning :)05:39
didrocksI'm going to release all the stuff that are in manual publishing mode05:41
didrocksbut some packages are blocked because tests failing05:41
rickspencer3oh, looks like lots of the apps team is european-based :)05:41
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gemarickspencer3: morning06:04
rickspencer3hi gema06:04
rickspencer3gema, so, any idea where we are at getting the application tests passing?06:04
gemarickspencer3: on the QA side we are working to keep the tests running and to remove infrastructure issues06:05
rickspencer3gema, do you know why the tests are failing?06:05
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gemarickspencer3: regarding the runs, I know that adb is failing at times and retrying makes it work so we are going to implement an automatic retry when adb fails06:06
rickspencer3gema, is it the case that when the tests run, they pass, or is it the case that when they run, they fail?06:06
gemarickspencer3: regarding the tests themselves we did some investigation on friday and have some bugs/problem reports on this pad: http://pad.ubuntu.com/test-triaging06:07
rickspencer3where "the tests" are the application auto-pilot tests are that making the dashboard red?06:07
gemarickspencer3: on the 18th image which we did a full read of the logs and why tests were failing06:07
gemarickspencer3: there were failures that are either the tests being wrong or the code being wrong06:07
gemarickspencer3: we have no way to tell by looking at the logs, it's up to the developers06:08
gemarickspencer3: we are going to look at more logs today and continue to raise bugs06:08
gemarickspencer3: we are marking any bugs we raise on this qa-touch06:08
gemarickspencer3: atm there are many failures, and the QA team cannot cope with all the triaging alone, so it'd be good to have developers doing this as well06:10
rickspencer3gema, I can't imagine that there is a set of new issues since last Monday06:10
gemarickspencer3: I hope not, will tell you when we've gone through the logs06:10
rickspencer3from what I understood on Friday, the problem was that the tests were incompatible with auto-pilot06:10
gemarickspencer3: ok, so you think they'll pass today?06:11
gemarickspencer3: have there been fixes on the tests side?06:11
rickspencer3gema, I don't06:11
gemarickspencer3: ok06:11
rickspencer3I don't think so because I think that everyone is just saying that it's everyone else's problem06:11
rickspencer3and I can't find out if the tests have even been fixed yet06:11
rickspencer3however, it's still early today06:11
rickspencer3I think I got up too early ;)06:11
gemarickspencer3: I will go through them this morning and let you know the status06:12
rickspencer3gema, I suspect we can make it green today if it's just a matter of fixing the tests06:12
gemarickspencer3: ideally06:12
rickspencer3but if auto-pilot also needs to be fixed, then I am not so certain06:12
rickspencer3I suspect the case is that the tests just need to be fixed06:12
gemarickspencer3: we have people in the US that can fix autopilot if we know what's wrong with it06:12
rickspencer3gema, I suspect that auto-pilot is red herring06:13
gemarickspencer3: me too06:13
rickspencer3that what really happened was that they didn't look at the tests until Friday, and realized that they were written in a desktop specific manner06:13
rickspencer3but no one is up yet who can tell me what's up ;)06:13
gemarickspencer3: ok, I will wait for that as well before going through the same logs06:14
* rickspencer3 tries to be patient06:14
gemarickspencer3: need to go out for a bit, bb a bit later06:14
jo-erlendwow... Ubuntu Touch on my Nexus 7 uses more power on my tablet than I'm able to provide using USB from my desktop.06:41
jo-erlendand it's just been idling.06:41
cjwatsonsbeattie: Couple of quick things I noticed about click-apparmor while looking over it on the train: undefined 'error' name in aa-clickprototype; and I think "Trigger: yes" in your .click-hook is unnecessary and can only cause problems?06:44
cjwatson(i.e. click-apparmor doesn't define a dpkg trigger)06:45
cjwatsonDoes anyone know what the state of the application lifecycle work is, i.e. whether it'll be usable by, oh, say, Tuesday?06:46
rickspencer3tvoss_, can you answer cjwatson? ^07:00
tvoss_cjwatson, what do you need in terms of lifecycle?07:00
tvoss_rickspencer3, sure07:01
tvoss_cjwatson, we have the basic app lifecycle in place, so would be good to know what you need and check if that is available07:04
cjwatsontvoss_: Enough to implement the desktop file handling from near the bottom of https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Specifications/ApplicationConfinement/Manifest07:05
cjwatsontvoss_: If you could tell me what source package(s) implement the app lifecycle then I can go look07:05
tvoss_cjwatson, ah, I think we are talking about a different app lifecycle here :) I'm talking about lifecycle at runtime, stopping and killing apps when they are not in the foreground07:08
cjwatsonI suspect we are07:08
gemaogra_`: when are we expecting the next image?07:28
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nik90|OfficeHi Paolo. Thnx for the delete icon. I got it merged to trunk07:35
PaoloRotoloHi nik90|Office :) No problem for me, I like design stuff ;)07:35
nik90|OfficePaoloRotolo: It is now also being used by the weather app :)07:35
PaoloRotolonik90|Office, cool :D07:37
PaoloRotoloBTW, who designed the original icon?07:38
nik90|Officethat came from the canonical design team07:39
ogra_`gema, as i wroite in my mail on saturday, the build now starts at ~10:00 UTC07:46
ogra_`(we had to move it by 1.5h)07:46
gemaogra_`: to which list did you send it?07:47
PaoloRotolonik90|Office, so, why they didn't release any .svg?07:47
ogra_`gema, ubuntu-phone indeed07:47
nik90|OfficePaoloRotolo: I did ask for them, however I think that they are too busy with the design of the core apps to create and release them07:48
ogra_`as a folowup to the former mail that told about build times07:48
gemaogra_`: thanks, I am not on that list, I will join :)07:48
ogra_`heh yeah. you should ...07:48
ogra_`gema, so we had to move it due to daily-release seemingly not being movable and that started to late to make it on the images otherwise07:49
ogra_`bevore it ran at 8:30 UTC07:49
didrocksogra_`: it's not due to the time when daily release starts07:50
didrocksit's due to the fact that we have to manually ack packaging changes07:50
didrocksso apart if you want to ask people with upload rights to wake up at 3am…07:50
gemadidrocks, ogra_`: sounds good, just wanted to be able to plan my morning around when the images will be ready07:50
ogra_`didrocks, 3am isnt 3am :)07:51
didrocksogra_`: ?07:51
ogra_`(we're on the internet ... )07:51
didrocksogra_`: well, there is nobody in the AU time on our team07:52
gemadidrocks: when are you going to be daily releasing automatically for touch? (phew, I avoided the autolanding word)07:52
didrocksgema: ? we already do that automatically07:52
didrocksfor months07:52
ogra_`if US people could review the work it would be in at 11pm :)07:52
didrocksogra_`: it's branching and running automatically for 240+ components07:52
gemadidrocks: I thought you were going to start running the tests on the mobile devices that we got you a week or so ago?07:52
didrocksgema: but that's not linked to daily releasing automatically or not, what do you mean?07:53
didrocksogra_`: well, on Sunday as well? :p07:53
ogra_`didrocks, indeed not on weekends :)07:53
gemadidrocks: uhmmm, I may be confused then, I thought you wanted those for autolanding (to be able to run on touch as well as the ones you already do, desktop)07:53
didrocksgema: right now, we daily release everyday07:54
didrocksthe only difference is that:07:54
didrocks- tests are running on desktop07:54
didrocksnot on phone07:54
didrocksthen, we'll run the tests on desktop AND phones07:54
didrocksbut for that, we need time to wire things up07:54
gemadidrocks: ok, do you have an ETA for the wiring to be done?07:54
didrocksseeing the number of requests and backlog, I can't promise any deadline, already 13h a day isn't enough to get new requests unstacked :p07:55
ogra_`didrocks, the point is that we delay everyone who needs to work with the images in europe until the afternoon ... but we'll have a meeting for that today, lets not talk it through now :)07:55
didrocksgema: so if your team can help, that would be appreciated07:55
gemadidrocks: I believe jibel is helping with that07:55
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didrocksogra_`: if you want, you can ack manual packaging changes yourself, I can give you the right for that :)07:55
didrocksogra_`: so please, do that while I'm sleeping and everything will be fixed :p07:55
didrocksgema: he is, but he has other autopkgtests demands as well07:56
gemadidrocks: ack, I will talk to him later today about that07:56
gemadidrocks: do you know at least how much effort is involved in the wire up?07:56
didrocksgema: not that much, I think 3 days would be enough07:57
gemadidrocks: ok07:57
ogra_`didrocks, i'm not attacking you, dont always take it personal, we need to find solutions for delays in the process in the long term, that has nothing to do with you or me07:57
didrocksjust need to find those07:57
gemaogra_`: +1 :)07:57
didrocksogra_`: right, but we need to find solutions as you tell. It seems you just want requirements :p07:57
didrocksogra_`: because why not as well building the image during the european night, instead of the morning?07:57
ogra_`we need to define the requirementsd before knowing what we need to improve, no ?07:58
gemaogra_`: building overnight doesn't sound bad, it'd give us some more time to look at results and maybe respin in the mornings07:58
gemaEU mornings07:58
jibelgema, I gave you an ETA for daily-release tests on touch which is first half of this week07:58
ogra_`didrocks, because there are other scheduled builds running before, we only have one livefs builder .... see its not only daily stuff that delays it, this one is in need of fixing too07:59
didrockswell, since last week, I just read some "that sucks" or comparable sentences without any kind of "I want to understand the issues or work on those to help them working". Also, when you are telling others about why this is that way, you don't mention the real details07:59
gemajibel: true, thanks for the reminder07:59
jibelgema, I did all the deployment test on a grouper and since I received a phone last week it needs some adjustements07:59
ogra_`didrocks, on the image side i would even like to get to 4 builds/day or so07:59
ogra_`didrocks, remember, apt will soon be gone07:59
didrocksogra_`: you can have image builds without having new components to release07:59
didrocksso that's not related :)08:00
ogra_`so fixes and updates obnly come via image updates08:00
gemajibel: ack, fyi grouper seems more stable than mako or maguro when it comes to running autopilot tests08:00
didrocksremember that we need a way for upstream to sync their work08:00
gemajibel: that doesn't mean they are passing, though08:00
didrockswhich is 00 UTC as of now, as it seems it was the best times across teams08:00
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ogra_`didrocks, as i said, lets not discuss it before asac's meeting this afternoon08:00
gemajibel: it'd be good to know, whenever you have the tests running, how they compare to our runs on images08:01
gemajibel: and if the failures are in the same places08:01
didrocksogra_`: right, just try to give details rather than pointing "this is because of that, but I don't know why" when this was explained :)08:01
jibelgema, indeed, it'd be good to publish thomein the dashboard too so we can compare :)08:01
jibels/thomein/ them in/08:02
ogra_`didrocks, sorry, i dont point, and its a fact that daily releases only run once a day08:02
gemajibel: yep, we are working on that as well, even though the views are not straight comparable yet08:02
didrocksogra_`: which is again, a requirement for upstream to sync their work08:02
didrocksas I explained you multiples times :)08:02
loolcjwatson, tvoss: to be precise, I think this relates to the way apps are started / stopped rather than to other application states such as running/suspended, foregrounded/backgrounded etc.08:02
ogra_`didrocks, yeah and i'm still not willing to accept that this is not changeable08:02
loolcjwatson: Specifically I guess you want to ensure that we stop and prevent apps from launching before an upgrade of said apps, then allow it again once upgrade is complete?08:03
didrocksogra_`: once we start to keep things backward compatible, it will be possible08:03
didrocksogra_`: from experience, I can tell you it won't be before 1.008:03
didrocks(at best)08:03
ogra_`lets keep that for the meeting, so we dont need to talk it through twice08:03
didrocksgema: btw, another way to compare is you having the autopilot tests running on desktop as well :)08:06
didrocksgema: so that we see if the issue is in infra, in difference since latest image and so on08:06
didrocksgema: but yeah, having already our existing tests showing up on the dashboard would be great :)08:07
gemadidrocks: we were going to land it friday but there were errors when doing a full import of the data, so we held it08:07
gemadidrocks: we should get there soon08:07
didrocksyou mean testing on desktop?08:07
didrocksor publishing our results?08:07
gemadidrocks: no, the dashboard results for daily release testing08:07
didrocksgema: oh excellent! I wasn't in the loop, so I hope they took the right jobs :)08:08
gemadidrocks: I hope so too, we can iterate fairly quickly after we land it so I will let you know as soon as it is there so that you can have a look08:08
gemadidrocks: fginther and alesage are working on it, hopefully they know what jobs they are dealing with :)08:09
didrocksgema: they never asked, so I hope as well ;)08:09
asacho :)08:10
didrocksogra_`: FYI, everything is published now (apps is currently moving from proposed to release pocket)08:10
didrocksogra_`: so, once done, you are able to kick manually an image to get results beforehand08:10
asacgema: jcollado: seesm dashboard populated itself nicely during weekend; maguro 21 seem to have fallen over a bit though: http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/smokeng/saucy/image/3086/08:11
didrocksonly unity isn't published for tests failing, but that doesn't impact you08:11
loolcjwatson: is that the only interface you would need?08:11
ogra_`asac, mako 20 hasnt run the app tests08:11
loolcjwatson: I guess we would also want to signal progress of the upgrade to the shell08:12
ogra_`there seems to still be a race that is  hit sometimes08:12
tvoss_lool, cjwatson so basically the upstart-based application launching, right?08:12
rickspencer3good morning asac08:12
asacogra_`: right. but thats more stable than it was :)08:12
looltvoss_: Yes08:12
ogra_`definitely :)08:12
asacrickspencer3: helo :)08:12
rickspencer3asac, I agree with you, the tests *ran* (mostly) so that's a good start08:12
asacogra_`: what was the last day we propagated an image?08:13
asacto current?08:13
ogra_`asac, 16th08:13
asacok ...08:13
gemaasac: it needed a bit of handholding from doanac, but yes it did08:14
asacgema: oh. you say, whole weekend doanac was pushing buttons?08:14
gemaasac: haven't you read his emails? :P08:14
gemaasac: I am not sure if the whole weekend, but he was definitely diagnosing problems and retrying things08:15
gemaasac: good thing is, he knows where our unstability comes from (for the most part) and we are going to be working on fixing that08:15
asacgema: "weekend view of smoke testing for touch" ?08:16
asacthat one?08:16
gemaasac: yep, and automated testing notes 2013-07-1908:16
gemaasac: main issues hitting us according to doanac's analysis are adb failing randomly and wifi not being available quickly enough, so we will be working on those two08:30
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cjwatsonlool: I don't care even a little bit about whether apps are prevented from launching or whatever.  I want a documented way to create .desktop files that launch apps :)08:33
cjwatsonlool: I don't care about signalling progress either08:33
asacgema: have you seen my phablet-tools merger requests?08:35
asacthey were about wifi08:35
asacor rather having more accurate debugging etc.08:35
asaclet me see if someone reviewed them by now :)08:35
loolcjwatson: oh ok; .local/share/applications/ should work, but indeed we should confirm the best path08:37
asacogra_` and friend: https://code.launchpad.net/~asac/phablet-tools/wait-for-online-with-nm-tool/+merge/17489408:37
asacthis thing will help :)08:37
cjwatsonlool: I know that part, but there's rather more to it than that08:37
looldidrocks: who would be the best person to discuss dash / launcher integration with click packages?  (place to write generated .desktop files)08:37
cjwatsonlool: see the wiki page I cited above08:37
didrockslool: should be mhr308:38
ogra_`asac, you didnt answer my question :)08:38
loolcjwatson: Yeah I looked at it, but it wasn't obvious what's handled by click packages and what's handled by dash08:38
ogra_`why the extra subshell spawning08:39
cjwatsonlool: a click hook needs to write out a .desktop file that arranges for the app to be launched under apparmor08:39
cjwatsoner, with the appropriate profile I mean08:39
cjwatsonI don't think the dash can be very much involved in that part08:39
loolcjwatson: write, and for now the only way is to prepend aa-exec08:39
cjwatsonunfortunately what I read in the wiki page seems to be that we have to write an auxiliary shell script, which is pretty rubbish08:40
cjwatson(due to bug 1200437(08:40
loolcjwatson: so you're looking for a package to transport the click hook that would take an input .desktop file and generate one with aa-exec08:40
ubot5bug 1200437 in qtubuntu "startProcess reverses arguments from desktop files." [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/120043708:40
cjwatsonwell, knowing which package to put it in would be nice, yes, but I was hoping to be told that the insane generate-auxiliary-shell-script rubbish might be avoidable08:41
looldidrocks: thanks08:42
asacogra_`: as i said, the code can be improved... grep played some games on me, so I used sh -c ...08:42
asacogra_`: see the comment i posted during submission08:43
didrockslool: yw ;)08:43
asac"I don't like the sh -c "..." way of doing this, but couldn't get the | easily wrapped in a variable without doing it that way :)..."08:43
ogra_`asac, oh, i totally missed that sentence08:43
ogra_`asac, so set a commit message and we can approve08:44
loolgreyback: Did you have a chance to review https://code.launchpad.net/~saviq/qtubuntu/fix-reversed-arguments/+merge/174313 and update app manager?08:44
ogra_`(so that jenkins stops failing)08:44
asacogra_`: ok i submitted one branch for each commit...08:44
asacogra_`: will merge bot process them one by one?08:44
Saviqlool, greyback's only on that because he's working on the next app manager08:44
Saviqlool, you need to harass ricmm for that MP08:44
loolSaviq: thanks  :-)08:44
ogra_`asac, i think they are merged in order, yeah08:45
Saviqlool, or rsalveti at least08:45
Saviqlool, I failed, I'm afraid08:45
loolSaviq: np08:45
loolricmm: https://code.launchpad.net/~saviq/qtubuntu/fix-reversed-arguments/+merge/174313 is pretty urgent as to fix running click packages confined; would you mind taking a look when you get online?08:45
loolcjwatson: Outside of landing the fix (but we're a bit frozen right now), finding a package to hold the hook, would you miss other parts?08:46
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ogra_`asac, hmm, gur there are no branches attached (or at least no changes shown) not sure you can do it like that08:46
asacogra_`: i think i did a mistake08:48
asacnow i have: https://code.launchpad.net/~asac/phablet-tools/check-device-and-ip-state-after-sleep/+merge/17614508:48
asacand https://code.launchpad.net/~asac/phablet-tools/improve-network-bringup-console-output/+merge/17614408:49
asacand 3rd: https://code.launchpad.net/~asac/phablet-tools/wait-for-online-with-nm-tool/+merge/17489408:49
cjwatsonlool: I think that's *probably* it, although I'm generally finding with this project that I'm not certain how much there is to do until I've done it :)08:49
loolcjwatson: hehe08:49
asacogra_`: odd ... first proposal didnt add the bot08:49
* greyback is wondering is Saviq 's irc client has a notification whenever he gets pinged08:50
cjwatsonIn particular I'm going to have to think about how the apparmor and desktop hooks (and presence/absence of either) interact08:50
cjwatsonBut I have to solve it before Wednesday one way or another08:50
xnoxogra_`: so what needs doing to start building images from my android package? (at least out of ppa to begin with)08:50
loolcjwatson: I can see that with the .desktop files in local/ we'll eventually need some helper to fix inconsistenticies in case your system crashes right while we were adding/removing one; we also haven't touched on the signalling upgrades part  :-/08:51
xnoxogra_`: shall I automate uploads when/if: android, hybris, platform-api, kernels change?08:51
xnoxogra_`: or simply launch daily builds?08:51
ogra_`xnox, we need to add the ppa to livecd-rootfs ... then have a code snipped that installs the debs and copies the files out of the chroot into the build dir08:51
loolcjwatson: concerning absence of hooks, this is why I was pushing towards defaulting to no permission at all (entirely confined) for apps; jdstrand would know the final story on this08:52
ogra_`xnox, and in the second step cdimage needs to learn to publish them08:52
loolerr I meant abscence of profile, not hook08:52
* lool needs another coffee, it's way too hot here08:52
Saviqgreyback, no, I get a notification whenever "saviq" shows up in a merge request URL ;)08:53
cjwatsonlool: Yes, we talked about that on appstore-devel08:53
greybackSaviq: aha08:53
ogra_`xnox, given your bootimg has the right stuff in it i would suggest we replace the bootimg creation code in live-build/auto/build with the copy around code08:53
cjwatsonlool: I don't see why we need to signal anything to the shell; surely it should notice changes in .local/share/applications via inotify08:53
Saviqogra_`, do you guys get input in apps working on pending?08:54
Saviqpopey_, ↑08:54
ogra_`Saviq, i doubt he is up, he is in oregon this week08:54
ogra_`and i havent tested on the weekend, let me sync a fresh image08:55
Saviqogra_`, manta seems fine, my maguro must be b0rked, bootstrapping08:56
ogra_`19 definitely worked here, thats the one i have installed accordign to the stamp08:57
asacgema: do we want to add more tests :)?09:00
asaci mean ... we are half way through the first batch only09:00
ogra_`asac, do you think i could mark a newer image as /current now ? or do we actually want to hold back until all of utah is fixed ?09:00
ogra_`asac, stgraber needs the newer recovery image stuff in /currend so a fresh bootstrap gets the new added ubuntu features that live in the recovery images09:01
ogra_`else system based upgrades wont work09:01
gemaasac: I'd like to get these fixed before we add more to the batch09:01
gemaasac: but I guess it's your call09:01
ogra_`(--bottstrap doesnt pull from --pending iirc)09:02
asacgema: ok... is there a way to have more tests added, but not report them on our main dashboard?09:02
asacin that way we could give more warnings to folks that havent been added09:02
asacso they can prep09:02
gemaasac: that'd make it even more difficult for us to keep running09:02
gemaasac: I'd like to fix the adb problem and the wifi unstability issue and then add the second batch09:02
asacgema: you think it can be more difficult?09:02
asacgema: you won't be able to solve the wifi issue unless its fixed by my bug09:02
asacerr merge proposal09:03
gemaasac: we will, we will make the test environment more resilient09:03
gemaasac: can I have a look at your MP?09:03
ogra_`gema, see above ... we will need testing of the recovery mode too in the future, at least for the bits that were added on top of the stock recovery (gpg, parted and the system upgrader scripts)09:03
asacsure... it basically cleans stuff up and fixes that we still identify a device as online09:03
asacthat is online on two net devices09:03
asacgema: https://code.launchpad.net/~asac/phablet-tools/wait-for-online-with-nm-tool09:04
asacgema: the real real solution would be to focus on adb09:04
asacand then somehow make networking go through adb09:04
asacat least the networking needed to setup device (e.g. pull new packages etc)09:04
asacwifi in a lab is always interference etc.09:04
gemaasac: ok, if that's possible, but we also need to run tests on wifi09:05
gemaasac: i.e. we need to make wifi robust09:05
asacogra_`: can you maybe help gema getting some magic to get the networking through adb forward?09:05
asacgema: we can have wifi tests09:05
asacgema: but thats different from having all devices requiring wifi09:05
asacand pulling data09:05
ogra_`asac, ssh via adb you mean ?09:05
asacyou could then tag one or two devices as wifi test devices09:05
asacrather than having all devices in parallel going on a wifi rampage09:05
gemaasac: wifi is not failing randomly during execution, it is just sometimes taking longer to be up when provisioning09:05
gemaasac: and the test tools wanting to start before the wifi is actually there09:06
ogra_`we dont have any network gardget support via usb atm in case you mean actual networking through USB09:06
asacgema: you are sure? my fix will also give us 20 more seconds :)09:06
asacand better logging (so we really see if thats the problem)09:06
gemaasac: if you fix does that, then it's most likely going to get rid of many of our problems09:06
asacgema: do our devices have a SIM?09:06
gemaasac: some of them09:06
asacif so the current network code will not only fail if we are not waiting long enough09:07
asacbut also will fail if both data as well as wifi are up too quick :)09:07
gemaasac: so do you want sim on smoke testing devices or no sim?09:07
=== b0bben_ is now known as b0bben
asacgema: thats fine to be in there...09:08
gemaasac: so you want the devices to have sim09:08
asacjust saying that current phablet-tools "wait for networking" code will fail if we are online on wifi and gsm :)09:08
asacgema: i guess so09:08
gemaasac: ok09:08
gemaasac: then we'll have to fix the tools not to fail in that case09:08
gemaasac: right now I don't think we have a sim on the devices we are using09:09
gemafor smoke testing09:09
gemaasac: we have two other devices with sim that we are using to get the connected tests ready09:10
gemaand the lab infrastructure to do that09:10
asacgema: right. that sim might also explain why the networking falls over09:10
gemaasac: no sim on smoke testing09:10
asacwe have not enough logging to see whether with current code our network is up too quick or too late09:10
asacgema: ah ok09:10
asacthen well, it will give us 20 seconds more09:11
gemaasac: ack, we will try that09:11
asacogra_`: well, dont want to add more requirements09:11
asacbut maybe there is something smart we can do through adb forward09:11
gemaasac: let me know when your fix lands so that we can update the phablet tools in the lab09:11
asaclike doing a revert ssh tunnel09:11
asacfor the http and ssh ports09:11
asacand seeding09:11
cjwatsonsbeattie: FYI there's a "click pkgdir" in click 0.2.1 which you can use to get the top-level app directory from either the package name or any path underneath that directory09:13
loolcjwatson: I was thinking progress of the upgrade09:13
cjwatsonlool: doesn't seem worth it09:13
loolcjwatson: e.g. over the duration of the download, and over the duration of the install09:13
cjwatsondownload, yes, but install I don't see the point09:14
loolcjwatson: unpacking a GB of data will take some time surely09:14
cjwatsonmaybe, but we don't have much of an opportunity to hook into the unpack to send signals09:14
cjwatsonandroid doesn't bother with install progress09:14
cjwatsonso I don't see a need to09:14
loolcjwatson: Right, neither does iOS show progress of the installation itself; but they both show when switching from download to installation09:15
loolbut I guess that's implicit from the download progress09:15
cjwatsonright, sure - that'll be a packagekit signal09:16
ogra_`asac, well, the androiid gadget driver has rndis networking support, the prob is that our adbd cant do that atm09:16
loolcjwatson: ack09:16
asacogra_`: i can do: adb forward tcp:8888 22 on host09:16
ogra_`no, i'm takkking about real usb networking :)09:16
asaci could then ssh in and open a bunch of sneaky ports through host09:16
asacyeah. that seems too sophisticated09:16
ogra_`k :)09:16
asacless sophisticated might be to have a vpn port on host09:17
ogra_`would also be rather complex to teach to our adbd09:17
asacand then use the ssh trick to give the device whole networking09:17
asacbut ... i would prefer to have something that just goes through fixed ports i guess09:17
asacwe would need a port for ports and archive.ubuntu.com and one for ppa09:17
asacand one for code.launchpad :/09:18
asacguess its hard to do that transparently (without always hacking sources.list()09:18
* ogra_` doesnt get what you mean09:18
ogra_`we have the PPAs in the images ... at least the ones we built from09:18
JamesTaitGood morning all, happy Pi Approximation Day! :-D09:18
asacogra_`: adb forward tcp:8888 tcp:2209:19
* ogra_` wants it exact ... pfft approximation09:19
ogra_`asac, yes, but what does that have to do with the PPAs in sources.list ?09:19
asacogra_`: ssh -P 8888 localhost -R 8081:archive.ubuntu.com:80 -R8082:ppa.launchpadd.net:8009:19
* cjwatson awaits ogra_`'s exact value for pi09:20
asacogra_`: well you would have to say that s/ppa.launchpad.net/localhost:8082/09:20
asacon host09:20
stgraberasac: run squid on your machine (or a smaller proxy), then do a redirect of port 3128 and export http(s)_proxy=
asacstgraber: you are a genius :)09:20
ogra_`cjwatson, still computing, ask in 20 years again :)09:20
asacogra_`: we install squid on the host ... and just do the proxy pipe through  through ssh -R09:20
stgraberor if in the DC, just forward straight to the DC's squid server (squid.internal or something like that)09:21
asacyay... we already have a proxy :)09:21
asacin the net i am sure09:21
asacgema: whats the proxy host name?09:21
cjwatsonogra_`: by which time you'll have (in relative terms) an infinitesimally better approximation, sure :)09:21
loolcjwatson: it's π!09:21
gemaasac: proxy host name for what?09:22
asacgema: for the DC09:22
asacyour squid09:22
ogra_`asac, right, we have a proxy and it already has all we need, i dont get what you want this for09:22
asacogra_`: you just need to foll09:22
asacow me :)09:22
asacogra_`: we want to kill wifi09:22
ogra_`we have local mirrors everywhere09:22
gemaasac: for what, packages ? or for web access or for ... ?09:22
asacogra_`: and rather use adb forward to get the packages etc. .... to avoid flaky networking09:22
asacgema: packages, images, everything at best09:23
ogra_`asac, uh, then iw would actually go for rndis networking, might be less work than to maintain such a setup09:23
asacogra_`: we already figured that its easiest to just use a squid09:23
asacthat should cover almost everything09:24
asacwe just need one reverse port forward09:24
ogra_`(surely more work to implement, but after all you want have to fiddle with it afterwards if something changes)09:24
asacthrough our adb ssh09:24
ogra_`rndis networking is a sysfs switch plus some NIC configuration ... you only have to implement that once09:24
ogra_`(and a restart of adbd)09:25
asacfeels like a second step :)09:25
asacbecause i cant do it on my own :)09:25
ogra_`you wont have to maintain any proxy config at all then09:25
asacogra_`: do we need more packages on the image?09:25
asaci would prefer to stick to the requirements we already have09:26
ogra_`no, adb would do it if you restart it with the right parameters09:26
asacand not grow requirements for the target image09:26
asacogra_`: so experience is:09:26
asacadb SPECIALSTUFF shell09:26
asacping www.yahoo.de -> works and goes through adb ?09:26
ogra_`why would that need any other packages than we use now for networking09:26
asacogra_`: can you figure the magic for that :)?\09:26
ogra_`as long as the machine with adb has a route to ping yahoo indeed09:27
=== popey_ is now known as popey
ogra_`asac, thats what i was ffering above ;)09:27
asacif its too tricky we can always fall back the the squid approach09:27
asacogra_`: yeah... go ahea09:27
asacif it takes longer than 1-2 hours let me know...09:27
elkngwhen ubuntu for phones will be released ?09:27
=== chriadam is now known as chriadam|away
loolbarry: Saw your note on "pre-reboot success or failure": isn't that to be able to bubble up download errors or signature errors to e.g. system settings app?09:33
didrocksogra_`: did you launch the build manually btw as all apps are in the release pocket?09:36
asacogra_`: one thing you might want to remember is that there migth be real wifi/networking tests09:36
asacso we would need to be able to use route etc. to still ping and test our wifi09:36
asacbut guess thats really just a smart route rule etc.?09:36
asacogra_`: working?09:42
asacman ogra is slow today09:42
asacalmost 20 minutes and still no working code ... lol09:43
ogra_`didrocks, nope, its jstating in 8 min anyway09:52
ogra_`asac, sorry was afk09:52
didrocksogra_`: you could have won 1h30 :p09:52
ogra_`asac, setprop sys.usb.config rndis,adb && restart android-tools-adbd && ifconfig rndis0 up09:53
ogra_`asac, that gets me an rndis0 iface here09:53
ogra_`still need to fiddle a bit to make adbd skip unsetting it again from the upstart job09:53
ogra_`(during restart)09:54
asacogra_`: no dhclient etc. needed?09:55
ogra_`asac, setprop sys.usb.config rndis,adb && pkilladbd && /usr/bin/adbd09:55
ogra_`that one works09:55
ogra_`NM will then start to try to just configure rndis009:56
ogra_`(my laoptop NM just goes crazy here ... let me check the phone)09:56
asacogra_`: its really bad to use NM in hope and prey fashion09:56
asacogra_`: will NM think thats a wired?09:56
asacogra_`: if so we can just do proper dhclient etc. and then know 100% after finishing that the net is good09:56
ogra_`well, nm ignores it on the phone side it seems09:57
asacor report a log etc.09:57
asacand NM will ignore that09:57
ogra_`so we can do ifconfig handling here09:57
asacogra_`: ok then lets just do dhclient09:57
asacogra_`: no dhclient?09:57
ogra_`on the laoptop side it sees the new device for me09:57
ogra_`asac, dhclient would require me to have a server on my chromebook :P09:57
asacogra_`: right. but we will need that?09:57
asacin real setup?09:58
ogra_`yes, in the DC we will09:58
ogra_`anyway, try the above yourself09:58
ogra_` setprop sys.usb.config rndis,adb && pkill adbd && /usr/bin/adbd09:58
ogra_`via adb indeed09:58
=== mardy_ is now known as mardy
ogra_`adb shell sh -c "setprop sys.usb.config rndis,adb && pkill adbd && /usr/bin/adbd"09:59
ogra_`that works here09:59
ogra_`we just need to configure the device now10:00
ogra_`root@ubuntu-phablet:/# nmcli d|grep rndis10:01
ogra_`rndis0     802-3-ethernet    connecting (getting IP configuration)10:01
ogra_`NM enven tries to configure it on the phone side10:01
ogra_`the indicator just doesnt show that10:01
asacogra_`: i am sure infra folks will need clear instructions what to do on host side as well10:03
asac(e.g. how to setup dnsmasq and potential iptables etc.10:03
ogra_`asac, definitely10:03
ogra_`i just found a problem10:03
ogra_`seems on the jost side usb0 gets a new MAC every time it gets brought up newly10:04
ogra_`that will make it hard to assign devices to usb NICs ... not sure thats an issue since you still have parallel adb access10:05
ogra_`(in case you want to ssh in via that device it will be hard to distinguish the diferent usb* devices)10:05
=== jcollado is now known as jcollado_afk
didrocksogra_`: do you have any estimate how long building the image is taking?10:11
ogra_`didrocks, 50min to 1h10:11
didrocksogra_`: ok, thanks :)10:11
ogra_`didrocks, plus several hours for the utah tests10:11
didrocksogra_`: do we know how much?10:11
didrocksgema: ? ^10:11
ogra_`nope, not yet atm it took 3-4h or so i would guess  but i didnt check, just from my gut feeling over the last days10:12
didrocksogra_`: ok, thanks for the estimate!10:12
ogra_`(might be faster if there are no manual interventions needed)10:12
asacogra_`:probably a way to set the mac through some kernel magic?10:13
ogra_`asac, either that or we just work with fixed IPs from the bringup script10:13
gemaogra_`: several hours for the utah tests? what'd'ya'mean?10:13
asacogra_`: NM supports setting custom NIC on10:13
asacerr flip that10:14
asacso it must be fairly straight forward10:14
gemadidrocks: it all depends on how much handholding they need today10:14
ogra_`gema, after the image is on /pending it takes like 30min for them to start, then it takes a few hours until all tests are run and show up on the dashboard10:14
gemadidrocks: we should start seeing results appear 15-20 mins after the images are there10:14
ogra_`at least it was like that for the past days10:14
gemaogra_`: I thought the delay we introduced was 10 mins10:15
didrocksgema: I mean, having all tests ran10:15
ogra_`i admit we didnt have a full automatic run yet10:15
didrocksnot start but "end" :)10:15
gemadidrocks: 2 hours top10:15
Saviqogra_`, re: input issues https://bugs.launchpad.net/platform-api/+bug/120369810:15
ubot5Launchpad bug 1203698 in platform-api "input is lost if no app was launched before stopping shell" [High,Confirmed]10:15
ogra_`gema, 10 mins until you start syncing, to give the publisher its time10:15
ogra_`gema, then the default tests start10:15
gemaogra_`: yep, then we get started10:15
didrocksgema: ok10:16
ogra_`which is about 20-30 min until they are done and show up on dashboard10:16
gemaogra_`: default doesn't take long, the test is seconds to 1 min, it is however long it takes to download image/provision10:16
ogra_`and then the single apps get tested ... havent looked how much these take but it is a while10:16
gemaogra_`: we've speed the dashboard syncing of smoke to every 15 mins10:16
ogra_`Saviq, oh, yeah, let me flash latest to check10:17
ogra_`sorry, your request kind of drowned in other stuff10:17
davmor2Saviq: I can still reproduce the app lens lockup on 19.110:20
Saviqdavmor2, yeah, we'll be investigating, but been unable to reproduce ;/10:20
davmor2ogra_`: this stuff re: image upgrades is that the new recommended way of upgrading to test the daily images?  I don't particularly want to be adding my contacts data each day :)10:22
ogra_`davmor2, no, its only there for testing yet ... but it will be the default in the future10:22
davmor2ogra_`: okay good.  which brings me onto how the images are coming along for today as we are popeyless10:23
ogra_`davmor2, not sure, if asac will approve releasing them ... it would be needed for the initial bootstrapping of the image based upgrade sruff10:25
ogra_`(i pinged him above about that but have no answer yet)10:25
asacogra_`: waiting for boston to wake up to align with those folks10:26
ogra_`asac, they are linkey better than the 16th one that current points to atm10:27
asactvoss: https://bugs.launchpad.net/platform-api/+bug/1203698 something you know the answer to right away?10:27
ubot5Launchpad bug 1203698 in platform-api "input is lost if no app was launched before stopping shell" [High,Confirmed]10:27
asac(since its input)10:27
asacogra_`: i cant proof that easily from looking at dashboard from 16th and yesterday10:27
asac15th looked best yet :)10:27
ogra_`asac, well, indeed10:28
asacits not easy to say something is better ... i think some tests that failed on 16 succeeded on 15th10:28
asacsucceeded yesterday10:28
asacand vice versa10:28
asactotal count looks worse today10:28
davmor2ogra_`, asac: please give me a ping when there is an image up for today then and I'll happily test it.  But I have a feeling I might have a lot on and miss the message else .   Many thanks :)10:28
ogra_`Saviq, just a sidenote, but i thought ricmm added a fix so that we dont need to stop the shell anymore10:28
asacdavmor2: you can just test latest with phablet-flash --pending10:28
Saviqogra_`, when testing shell, yeah we do :)10:28
ogra_`(doesnt make that bug invalid indeed, but less severe)10:29
asacdavmor2: that will pull the image before the gate10:29
Saviqogra_`, k10:29
Saviqogra_`, how does it unlock the phone in that case10:29
davmor2asac: oh okay10:29
ogra_`Saviq, heh, dunno10:29
ogra_`i didnt know you restart the shell for testing itself10:30
ogra_`after ricmm's fix we shouldnt need to restart it for the autopilot app tests though10:30
Saviqogra_`, only thing is you need to unlock the shell10:32
Saviqogra_`, which either you hack in somehow ;) or we pilot the shell as well10:33
tvossSaviq, looking at https://bugs.launchpad.net/platform-api/+bug/120369810:33
ubot5Launchpad bug 1203698 in platform-api "input is lost if no app was launched before stopping shell" [High,Confirmed]10:33
tvossSaviq, so the issue is that input does not propagate to apps if the shell is not running?10:33
Saviqtvoss, no10:33
Saviqtvoss, it doesn't propagate to apps *period*10:33
Saviqtvoss, if you trigger it10:33
Saviqtvoss, but it's tricky to trigger, as you need to start/stop shell as the first thing you do10:34
ogra_`Saviq, so i accidentially had the browser running before stopping unity8 ... now i have a completely hanging session10:34
Saviqtvoss, if you launch an app at any point before stopping unity810:34
ogra_`(powerbutton only toggles backlight, no lock screen or anything)10:34
* ogra_` reboots to test without running browser10:34
Saviqogra_`, can't you start the shell?10:34
Saviqogra_`, the browser will be stopped most probably10:35
Saviqogra_`, but starting shell should bring everything back10:35
Saviqtvoss, the bug won't be triggered10:35
Saviqtvoss, it's some initialization issue - starting unity8 causes app mgr to do something in waiting for an app10:35
ogra_`Saviq, the shell is running, i brought the browser to the foreground, swiping from the left to get backj to the shell got me a hanging launcher and no reaction from the shell at all anymore10:35
Saviqogra_`, can you please try reproduce and file bug if confirmed10:35
=== vrruiz_ is now known as rvr
ogra_`let me try the actual testcase now :)10:36
asacogra_`: did you drop the ball :)?10:36
asacogra_`: if not you could reply with isntructions on how to get where you were to the mail thread10:37
ogra_`asac, on what of the 133423 things i have here on my desk ?10:37
asacso someone else might take over and finish10:37
tvossSaviq, got it. Just wondering about the use case for the specific behavior you are requesting10:37
asacogra_`: no the networking10:37
ogra_`asac, no, but i promised Saviq a test before that came up, let me quickly confirm the bug10:37
Saviqtvoss, I'm requesting that input doesn't get lost: D10:38
Saviqtvoss, that a bad use case? :D10:38
Saviqtvoss, shell needs to be stopped at times for autopilot testing10:38
Saviqtvoss, if you do that before having launched an app in this ubuntuappmanager session10:39
Saviqtvoss, you don't have input for apps until you restart ubuntuappmanager10:39
ogra_`Saviq, hmm, no issues here, i cant reproduce (i have to stop the app before startign the shell, not sure ricmm did something different here)10:39
Saviqogra_`, what app?10:40
Saviqogra_`, don't start *any* apps10:40
Saviqogra_`, reboot phone, stop shell, start app10:40
ogra_`calculator had input just fine without the shell10:40
ogra_`shell has input just fine after starting it anew10:40
Saviqogra_`, you need to start the app from console10:40
ogra_`Saviq, thats what i did10:40
Saviqogra_`, hmm interesting, I confirmed on two devices and dednick did, too10:40
ogra_`stop shell; start calculator ... claculator takes input just fine10:40
ogra_`... stop calculator, start shell, shell works fine10:41
Saviqogra_`, yeah, shell works fine always10:41
ogra_`i can unlock without probs10:41
asacpitti: seems youi are interseted in how to improve our simulated device testing?10:41
Saviqogra_`, yeah, that's shell10:41
ogra_`Saviq, are you properly running all this as phablet user ?10:41
Saviqogra_`, but input doesn't ever get to apps after having triggered that bug10:41
Saviqogra_`, yes10:41
asacpitti: did you get my thoughts on the android emulator? maybe you want to join those efforts?10:41
ogra_`and do you use --desktop_file_hint ?10:41
Saviqogra_`, that's --pending, btw?10:42
asacpitti: or drive them :)?10:42
ogra_`Saviq, yes, 21th10:42
* Saviq reflashes10:42
ogra_`phablet@ubuntu-phablet:~$ cat /var/log/installer/media-info10:42
ogra_`Ubuntu Saucy Salamander (development branch) - armhf (20130721)10:42
asacpitti: guess your invite is more about umock etc... :)... but still feels related enough10:42
ogra_`Saviq, btw ...10:44
ogra_`phablet@ubuntu-phablet:~$ time initctl start unity810:44
ogra_`unity8 start/running, process 148010:44
ogra_`that really needs to become faster :)10:44
Saviqogra_`, I know, with the exception that it doesn't matter much in real use ;)10:44
ogra_`it matters for boot time10:44
ogra_`which currently is 40sec without the shell10:44
Saviqogra_`, which doesn't matter much in real phone use ;)10:45
ogra_`it adds up :)10:45
Saviqogra_`, but yes, I agree - it's all about loading the scopes10:45
ogra_`well, i would prefer to not have more than 30sec until usable UI for release10:45
ogra_`even thought its not high prio, it puts a bad light on us10:45
ogra_`(and i know how much i personally curse android for taking ages to boot on planes where i *have to* shut down)10:46
ogra_`Saviq, ok, i can reliably reproduce the case where the shell hangs if there is a running app prior to stopping it ... it pretty much exposes exactly whats in the bug10:49
ogra_`seems theissue got flipped around now :)10:49
Saviqogra_`, might be the same thing indeed10:50
Saviqogra_`, but: I just flashed maguro; adb shell; sudo -u phablet -i; stop unity8; ubuntu-calculator-app10:50
Saviqogra_`, input in apps gone10:50
ogra_`yeah, just that it now  happens if an app runs before ...10:50
ogra_`i dont see you using initctl10:51
ogra_`and i dont see you using --desktop_file_hint10:51
Saviqogra_`, can't we `alias stop unitctl stop`? :D10:51
Saviqogra_`, that might be a good point actually10:51
Saviqogra_`, it shouldn't be necessary when there's no shell10:51
Saviqogra_`, but still valid bug10:51
ogra_`and the last command runs as root :)10:51
Saviqogra_`, that was pseudo-bash10:52
ogra_`hmm, actually both do i think10:52
pittiasac: I didn't get your thoughts on the android emulator, no; does that include networking?10:52
Saviqogra_`, none of them do10:52
ogra_`in the laine above they do10:52
pittiasac: yes, I had umockdev and the ofono modem emulator in mind10:52
Saviqogra_`, as that's not what I really executed - pseudo-bash10:52
pittiasac: depending on what you guys need to test10:52
ogra_`well, as long as you are sure :)10:52
asacpitti: android emulator brings nice stuff like GSM/SIM mocking. .. os might even give us more features at lower levels than what you do10:52
Saviqogra_`, let me try with the hint10:53
pittiasac: sounds interesting indeed10:53
ogra_`asac, we looked into that several times, its not distributable as package10:53
asacpitti: but yeah. seems you are not interested in the wider topic of moving to an emulator as our MAIN dev environment10:53
asacogra_`: emulator itself?10:53
ogra_`it needs sun java packaged with it and has a good bunch of restrictions10:53
ogra_`asac, yes, you need the whole ndk10:53
asacthats fine i guess... as long as you can just install the sdk from android10:53
asacogra_`: you say we couldnt even redistribute the binary?10:54
pittiasac: interested in the outcome, but I don't have experience in that area10:54
ogra_`sure, just saying we cant package or distribure it ourselves10:54
pittiasac: it would surely be interesting, of course10:54
ogra_`asac, yes, there are some limitiations10:54
ogra_`asac, the emu itself should work fine with touch though10:54
ogra_`but you would have to pull it down from google10:54
ogra_`we were looking into having itt for our SDk before10:55
asaci dismiss the risk of emulatror not directlly distributable by us in some form for now (someone from legal should check)10:55
Saviqogra_`, nope, --desktop_file_hint doesn't help10:55
asacyeah worst case you have a smart hack10:55
ogra_`Saviq, very weird10:55
ogra_`it totally works fine on maguro for me10:55
asacnot best situation, but gives us a headstart while we try to figure if we can do something like that on our own10:55
ogra_`asac, there is someone trying to get the goldfish (qemu) emulator to work for us btw10:56
ogra_`but that hasnt all the nifty emulator bits like emulating GSM etc10:57
asacogra_`: heard of that guy a few times. asked folks to embrance him and bring him here10:57
asacbut that newver happened10:57
ogra_`he is on the ML10:57
asacogra_`: goldfish is the architecture used by google emulator still10:57
Saviqogra_`, http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/5900184/10:57
asacso if we have a goldfish image it can be run by their emulator10:57
ogra_`sergio helps him with questions all the time10:57
asac(thats what i understand)10:57
ogra_`prob is that CWM dropped emu support at some point10:57
asacso bring this guy here... if i dont see him talking here, he doesnt exist for us :)10:58
ogra_`so ML people dont exist for you ?10:58
asacin any case, we probably have to do this on our own if we don't want to risk delay10:58
ogra_`we have a ton of these :)10:58
ogra_`we shouldnt exclude community just because they dont like IRC10:58
asacif i want to plan a critical core roadmap piece, I cannot plan around them if i dont have IRC or something similar low ping medium10:58
ogra_`Saviq, !10:59
ogra_`Saviq, i start the app directly10:59
asaci dont exclude them. i just cant work with them on a crtiical core piece that needs to happen ASAP10:59
Saviqogra_`, same thing10:59
asacif someone else does that and hides the risk from me thats good :)10:59
Saviqogra_`, I just tried to use upstart to get closer to "the real thing"10:59
asac s/hides/eliminates/10:59
ogra_`asac, well, i doubt it will happen soon, since someone would have to first fix CWM to support an amulator again11:00
asac s/hides/eliminates/11:00
asacogra_`: whats CWM?11:00
asacogra_`: CWM dropped emulator support? my understanding is that emulator is properly supported upstream11:01
ogra_`(CWM i clockworkmod ... sorry i meant cyanogenmod indeed)11:01
asacmaybe you dont need a CWM thing for that11:01
ogra_`Saviq, aha, now i can reproduce ... smells like a race11:01
ogra_`(since it worked all the tries before)11:01
Saviqogra_`, mhm11:02
ogra_`asac, you need the android side built to run under goldfish11:02
ogra_`asac, and our android side is cyanogenmod11:02
ogra_`CM dropped support for that several releases ago11:02
ogra_`Saviq, so this time i didnt have input in the calc. but unity has it again after tsarting the shell11:03
Saviqogra_`, unity always does11:03
Saviqogra_`, apps won't11:03
Saviqogra_`, not until you restart ubuntuappmanager11:04
ogra_`well, they did in all my former tests11:04
Saviqogra_`, I mean, once you lost it, you need to kill ubuntuappmanager to get it back in apps11:04
ogra_`this was the first time it failed11:04
Saviqogra_`, weird, it's 100% reproducible here11:04
* ogra_` reboots again11:04
asacogra_`: how much is CM different from upstream android?11:05
asaci mean the base11:05
Saviqon both maguro and manta11:05
ogra_`asac, dunno, thats a question for rsalveti and sergio11:05
ogra_`it shouldnt differ to much from ASOP ... but i doubt it is identical ...11:05
ogra_`you will surely need some patches on top11:05
ogra_`Saviq, works again ...11:07
Saviqogra_`, your devices are special :P11:07
=== jcollado_afk is now known as jcollado
ogra_`Saviq, yeah, i like them :P11:08
ogra_`they never fail11:08
=== ara is now known as Guest46239
asacxnox: hey ... do you need help coordinating your android bit landings?11:16
asacxnox: feels like this involves landing a few pieces at same time if we dont want to regress our image building and dashboard results etc.11:16
=== MacSlow is now known as MacSlow|lunch
xnoxasac: i am rebuilding android in ppa at the moment, to include all the recovery bits that stgraber needs in the loop-mounted / image-based upgrades. then uploads into a ppa should be automated on daily basis / trigger. and in parallel rootfs builder needs code & unit-tests to pull images out of the ppa.11:18
asacxnox: pull images out of ppa?11:18
xnoxasac: the android portions of the per-device zips and recoveries.11:19
asacxnox: thats ppa?11:19
asacarchive would be much better11:19
xnoxasac: at the moment yes, will be uploading into ubuntu-archive, after MIR/security review due to a lot of embedded copies of code.11:19
asacxnox: ok. that sounds all fine (even though i feel its odd that we prefer to pull from ppa over universe)11:20
* ogra_` is still curious how you solved all the licensing :)11:20
asacxnox: what i would like to know though is what we ensure that the final landing will not break anything :)11:21
ogra_`must be a gigantic debian/copyright11:21
ogra_`asac, building the contents uses exactly the same runes jenkins uses for buildign the imgs11:21
asacxnox: not sure if you have thought about that... maybe we can join efforts of the system image update landing11:21
asacthe android bit stuff?11:21
xnoxogra_`: yeah, that still needs updating.11:21
ogra_`asac, so i wouldnt fear anything to break11:22
ogra_`asac, yes, the android tree comes with a ton of different licenssses11:22
asacright. still, i would feel safer if we could ensure that we understand what the atomic flip switch is11:22
xnoxasac: so far manual tests from the ppa are fine, the image names are mostly correct, such that potentially we could teach phablet flash to use those, and run the tests in parallel (or manually locally)11:22
asacand be prepared with a mitigation plan (e.g. backout etc.() in case something goes bad11:22
asacxnox: right. just wonder what the flip/switch is that will make your stuff replace our current solutionm... and if we can make that in a wahy that we can flip back in case we have unexpected issues11:23
ogra_`asac, backing out would have to happen in livecd-rootfs and cdimage at the same time then, we need to replace some code in both11:23
asacok so we can make the livecd/cdimage thing our atomic handle for enabling and disabling this feature?11:24
asacthat would be good i think11:24
ogra_`you wont mannage to do that with just flicking a switch ... there is a delay ... cdimage isnt packaged and changes affect it directly, while livecd-rootfs needs to go through the archive infrastructure once for a revert11:24
asacdisabling/enabling being a simple commit/revert is also fine11:24
asacogra_`: cant we have something to esily pin/downgrade to a better lviecd-rootfs version in case stuff goes crazy?11:25
ogra_`so at least one turnaround package run is required11:25
xnoxwell, we turn the feature on - proposed build happens, testing runs. if that doesn't work, we revert uploads/commits. Thus the cost of the exercise is a broken daily + respin on the day.11:25
asacyeah. just would prefer if the "going back to green" would avoid any kind of infrastructrue flakiness.11:26
ogra_`asac, livecd-rootfs is pretty fast (~1h) from upload to archive usually ... but that hour you have to wait11:26
asacotherwise you can end up in nasty firedrill situations11:26
asacogra_`: really feels like to far too much stuff needs to happen for a simple revert11:27
asace.g. we depend on many pieces of infrastructure just to back something bad out11:27
asacbut well... thats long term :)11:27
ogra_`asac, well, it is as it is ... packaged stuff needs to go through the infrastructture once to get a fix11:27
ogra_`wether thats a revert or a bugfix11:27
asacbwe have a working package in archive now11:28
asacwe could just go back without rebuilding11:28
asacso it doesnt need to be that way11:28
ogra_`and to change it we need to do an upload11:28
ogra_`the livefs builders arent hackable ... the change needs to be in the package11:28
asacogra_`: i understand, and thats the point i criticize... backing out/going back shouldn't require 1h of infrastructure hope and preying11:28
xnoxogra_`: can we build out of archive, as even yet another new type of an image? or is that will then require changes deployed to phablet-flash?11:28
xnoxogra_`: e.g. does phablet-flash has "use this url as flipped" option?11:29
ogra_`xnox, you can set up your own livefs builder locally, but thats quite some effort ... i did that recently, took me half a day to get all the structures right11:29
asacogra_`: ok... can you check the networking thing again :) if i dont distract you more11:29
ogra_`its multiple stacked chroots with fixed pathnames11:29
* asac goes into paperwork mode11:30
ogra_`asac, yeah, going back to it now :)11:30
xnoxasac: ogra_`: switch one image type at a time? e.g. start with grouper, and then roll out others?11:30
ogra_`xnox, that would be waste and require a lot of extra work to even match and process subarches11:31
ogra_`i dont think 1h rollback time is to bad11:31
ogra_`we just need to make sure no builds happen during that hour11:31
seb128ogra_`, hey, do we know if our filesystem layout is defined somewhere (what partition we are going to have/use, if we have special directories for e.g video/music/photo, etc)?11:31
seb128or who would know about that11:31
ogra_`seb128, stgraber has it11:31
seb128stgraber, let me know when you are up, I've questions about the fs layout/directories ;-)11:32
ogra_`seb128, i think we will just stay with android FS layout ... /system for the rootfs, /data for writable space11:32
seb128ogra_`, thanks11:32
ogra_`and /cache for image upgrades11:32
ogra_`but thats not the case yet :)11:32
seb128I'm asking for the system settings info11:32
ogra_`and on the way towards it we will have loop mounted images11:32
seb128I need to display the disk size/place taken by Ubuntu/place taken by apps/free space11:33
ogra_`yeah, i know ... and it currently looks very odd :)11:33
ogra_`die to looping bindmounts wedo11:33
ogra_`its a bad hack :)11:33
stgraberseb128: I'm up (in London)11:49
ogra_`asac, http://paste.ubuntu.com/5900295/11:49
ogra_`that works fine here11:49
timp_the phablet-test-run script always terminates with ssh_exchange_identification: Connection closed by remote host11:50
timp_^any ideas what's wrong?11:50
ogra_`asac, the rest should be routing on the host (or if it is the same machine as the package proxy we just need to set http_proxy on cmdline)11:50
seb128stgraber, hey11:50
stgraberseb128: hello11:51
seb128stgraber, do you have details on the fs layout and do you know if we have special directories (like the xdg ones for music photo video)11:51
stgraberseb128: so the main things about our fs layout is we have all android partitions directly mounted at the root of the fs (/cache, /data, /system, /persistent, ...), on top of that we have /userdata which is the actual read-write parition11:53
stgraberin /userdata we then have system-data (writable config files for Ubuntu), android-data (what's mounted on /data) and user-data (mounted as /home)11:53
stgraberthe rest is read-only at the exception of some paths being tmpfs (like /tmp)11:53
stgraberit's pretty easy to add extra persistent directories to system-data and for the user, I guess we just want to store in sub-directories of the home directory (which is already persistent by default)11:54
stgraberwe also talked with lool and mfisch about a /customization (or similar) directory which would be read-only but provisioned by a separate tarball (separate from the common Ubuntu rootfs) so that carriers and OEM can ship customization there11:55
stgraberwe don't have a specific layout defined for that directory though (and I don't really care what it ends up being, I'm just reserving the top level path)11:55
ogra_`stgraber, i think seb128 is mainly intrested in what he will get with something like df -h11:56
seb128stgraber, thanks for the details11:56
seb128but yeah, what ogra_`says11:56
xnoxseb128: click packages api, should also say how much space is used by apps.11:56
stgraberthat's df -h + mount on one of the devices I have here11:56
ogra_`seb128, XDG dirs for user data will live in /home/$user (which in turn will live inside /data or /userdata in the end)11:57
seb128I basically need "disk space/ubuntu image size/free space/space used by apps|music|photos|videos"11:57
LaneyIt sounds like for the last three you can use XDG dirs indeed11:57
seb128I think I should better wait for things to settle down a bit11:57
stgraberseb128: so I don't really know where those would be stored, my assumption was under /home/phablet/... so you'd just du -sch those11:57
stgraberunless we end up having system-wide content11:58
seb128stgraber, right, well I was also wondering if we plan specific dirs for e.g photo music video (like the xdg dir)11:58
seb128do you know who is deciding on that?11:58
ogra_`du -sch XDG_DIR_FOO|BAR|BAZ11:58
stgraberseb128: I don't know who's deciding that but it's not me. Using the standard XDG paths would make sense though11:58
ogra_`that should give you the numbers11:58
ogra_`i doubt we'll move away from xdg with that11:59
seb128ok, that makes sense11:59
ogra_`would be silly if we did and i'd surely veto it11:59
ogra_`(converged will want it for the desktop session too i guess)12:01
ogra_`sergiusens, see the pastebin at http://paste.ubuntu.com/5900295/ ... do you think we could have a tool inside phablet-tools to set this up ?12:02
ogra_`(full usb networking instead of just forwarding an ssh port)12:04
ax562so how is the ubuntu-touch front?12:05
ax562ubuntu os?12:05
ax562close to official release?12:06
seb128stgraber, so free space is basically available space on /userdata, and that's usable for click packages (e.g installing apps) and user datas?12:06
seb128ok, that makes sense12:07
ogra_`/system (teh rootfs) will be completely readonly anyway12:07
stgraberseb128: right, /userdata is our only writable partition, so that contains system settings, user settings, packages, user data, ...12:07
seb128thanks guys12:07
seb128do we plan for multiusers atm?12:07
ogra_`not sure if for 13.1012:07
ogra_`we surely have to for convergence12:07
seb128I guess when we do, each user is going to have its separate userdir12:08
AlanBellax562: not yet, but watch http://www.ubuntu.com/ for an announcement of something in the next 24 hours or so12:08
ogra_`i think i saw mterry work on the first start wizardy thing12:08
ogra_`he should know if there are plans for adding users12:08
seb128mpt, ^ we should perhaps have a "space used by other users" in the design (not sure if the current designs are supposed to cover the multi user scenario)12:09
xnoxseb128: so in the OOBE, we will have screen to set hostname & user human name. multiuser is only targetted for 14.04, not for 13.1012:09
ogra_`yeah, i would have thought so12:09
ogra_`that will get really hairy12:09
seb128xnox, ok, it would still be good to plan for the multiuser case where we can though12:10
ogra_`getting all the android groups right the user needs to be in etc12:10
xnoxseb128: i presume, after initial user is setup, in the system-settings one can add new users, then go to lock-screen (lightdm) flick to the other user, login, and the new user is logged in. I think there are _some_ oobe steps for new user (demo + some settings)12:11
xnoxseb128: i guess other users usage will be "$home/../ - your_own usage"12:11
ax562is there somewhere where i can reference what works and doesn't12:16
seb128xnox, yeah, seems about right12:19
davmor2seb128: Ref multiuser, there is the login for tablets which is multiuser but there isn't for phone.  As I understood it phone was to be a single user login device, but I don't work on those teams or make those decisions, thats just what I picked up from the uds videos12:19
seb128davmor2, well, the system info dialog is likely to be similar on the tablet, so we need to handle the "space used by other users" bit in any case12:20
davmor2seb128: Isn't each user meant to have an encrypted partition for home will that have an effect on access or not?12:24
seb128davmor2, it might, but we don't need access... "other user" is basically "disk space - system - own user - free space"12:25
seb128davmor2, if /home is its own partition it's even easier, it's space of that one - your own user12:26
xnoxdavmor2: if/when we use encryption it will be .ecryptfs, and one can still directly look up disk usage, on per user basis. df /home/.ecrypts/$user12:26
asacogra_`: do you know what appened to todays imgage?12:27
davmor2xnox: ah okay cool12:27
davmor2seb128: Indeed I was just curious if it had been thought of.12:28
seb128stgraber, oh, other question ... do you have the date when the current system image got installed recorded somewhere (where installed includes upgrades, e.g when you did update your phone the most recently)12:31
=== MacSlow|lunch is now known as MacSlow
stgraberseb128: we have a log file in /cache/recovery but it's probably not a good idea to parse that ;)12:35
seb128stgraber, can you make the info available in a reliable way somewhere?12:35
ogra_`sergiusens, did you see my ping above ? could we ship something that does http://paste.ubuntu.com/5900389/ so we could have full networking via USB working ?12:35
stgraberseb128: So the only place where we could write that from the upgrader is on the data partition, so I could have a /userdata/.last_update file containing the "date -u" output. The obvious problem being that the recovery doesn't do NTP so we're not guaranteed to have a valid timestamp at all12:36
ogra_`sergiusens, in phablet-tools that is12:37
ogra_`(and lesss ugly indeed, this is just a prototype)12:37
sergiusensogra_`: did not see it, that should probably one more switch in the network indicator for dednick :-)12:37
sergiusensogra_`: but yes we can add it to phablet-tools12:37
ogra_`nah, no UI options12:37
ogra_`its just for people that want to fiddle with a networked device even though there is no wlan12:37
seb128stgraber, could be look at the mtime of some directory or file on disk?12:38
ogra_`for tests, autopilot etc12:38
asacman ... apt-get dist-upgrade on my x86 is just a crawling snail :)12:38
stgraberseb128: nope, everything comes from tar, so everything has the timestamp from the buildd12:38
asacand i am sure that the triggers stuff doesnt work... i see it reconfigures initramfs at least for the third time right now12:38
ogra_`asac, so let stgraber work on image based upgrades for desktops next ;)12:38
asacyeah :)12:38
asacnot saying next12:39
ogra_`asac, some triggers need to force it12:39
stgraberogra_`: the spec is perfectly applicable to desktop/server/... so long as you don't want to install extra packages ;)12:39
seb128stgraber, you said you have a log file, does it get events only for updates?12:39
ogra_`to make sure if you crash you still sre bootable12:39
* asac flashes latest --pending to run some autopilot tests12:39
stgraberseb128: sadly, no, it gets updated everytime the user boots to recovery, so that happens when upgrading but also during factory reset or manual boot of the recovery environment12:39
seb128hum, k12:40
stgraberseb128: and that file is created by the recovery environment so we can't really trust the timestamp either :(12:40
ogra_`asac, gema, so i answered that mail, but it seems there are CCs that require moderation .... if you want it to end up on the respective lists i guess some moderator needs to let it through12:41
asacogra_`: ack12:41
asacogra_`: ue leads moderation?12:41
asaci hope not12:41
seb128stgraber, can we make the upgrader dump a file in the userdata part and then have something on boot that "check the file and dump a timestamp somewhere if the file exists, then rm the file"?12:41
ogra_`yeah, and a qa list12:41
seb128stgraber, that would give us the date of first boot in the upgraded system at least12:42
asacthought that would let everybody canonical in by default12:42
stgraberseb128: yep, we could do that, we'd still need to figure out exactly when we have reliable time on the phone and get an upstart event for that12:42
ogra_`ChickenCutlass, broochacoo !12:42
ogra_`(or so)12:42
stgraberseb128: as it usually depends on getting data connectivity to access ntp12:42
seb128stgraber, we could teach ntpdate to send a signal when it success to sync the time12:43
stgraberseb128: (or we can just not care and hope that the phone clock is vaguely correct, which should be the case unless you let it drain entirely)12:43
seb128stgraber, but yeah, as a first approximation, saying that the clock is right should be ok12:43
seb128stgraber, the design has a day granularity, so we don't even care of timezones, offsets, etc12:44
AskUbuntuDoes Ubuntu touch OS uses Compiz to perform animations | http://askubuntu.com/q/32297512:44
stgraberseb128: ok, what's easiest for you, having a pre-generated string in the file or just an empty file and you look at the mtime?12:44
seb128AskUbuntu, no it doesn't12:44
seb128stgraber, looking at the mtime seems easier than having to parse a string12:44
stgraberok, I'll just add a "touch /data/.last_update" to the upgrader then, that'll make a file show up at /userdata/.last_update on the booted system12:45
seb128stgraber, looks good to me, thanks!12:45
stgrabersergiusens, rsalveti: Here's a patch to add a small feature for seb128, please apply to git, no need to kick a build though, it's not urgent (and pointless until we're actually ready to mark a daily build as current): http://paste.ubuntu.com/5900454/12:49
sergiusensstgraber: ok12:51
* sergiusens looks12:51
TTThi, there is someone online?13:06
* husnainlatif is online13:07
TTThi husnainlatif13:07
husnainlatifhi TTT13:08
seb128stgraber, oh, other question ... do you plan to work on an UI to check for system updates/install those?13:08
=== _salem is now known as salem_
TTTcan you tell me if someone have try to install "ubuntu touch" on an chines tablet?13:08
=== dandrader is now known as dandrader|afk
husnainlatifTTT,  i haven't. don't know bout others.13:10
TTTi've an "pipo M9" tablet with an 3188 rockchip processor an i don't know if "ubuntu touch" will be compatible with this processor13:11
ogra_`sigh, why dont people stay aroudn for a bit when asking on IRC13:20
nerochiarooSoMoN: i'm trying to run the tests on the device, i run phablet-test-run -i and I think it managed to successfully complete, but when i run "./phablet-test-run notes-app-autopilot notes_app" i get an error message saying it can't connect via ssh "ssh_exchange_identification: Connection closed by remote host". any ideas ?13:22
nerochiarooSoMoN: i'm following bill's email instructions13:22
=== chihchun is now known as chihchun_afk
=== dandrader|afk is now known as dandrader
oSoMoNnerochiaro: install openssh-server on the devices13:38
nerochiarooSoMoN: that's what the -i option is supposed to do, no ?13:38
ogra_`nerochiaro, i get the same btw13:39
ogra_`(trying the camer app tests)13:40
oSoMoNnerochiaro: no, it doesn’t, see my answer to Bill’s e-mail13:40
ogra_`oSoMoN, can we pull it in (and uninstall it at the end of testing if thats desired)13:40
oSoMoNogra_`: that’s a question for sergiusens I guess13:41
* ogra_` was assuming phablet-test-run would "just work"13:41
ogra_`if we cant pull it in it should at least echo a note to the console that i cant miss as a tester13:42
sergiusensso everyone on the camera-app right now?13:42
ogra_`sergiusens, well, i tried to replicate what asac tests and my tests never ran with the above error13:42
sergiusensogra_`: I'm running now13:43
nerochiarooSoMoN: ok, installed opessh-server through phablet-network-setup -i, then i ran again the script to run tests on the device and i get this: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/5900623/13:44
asacogra_`: you need to wipe or move your home elsewhere13:44
asaci am pretty sure13:44
sergiusensnerochiaro: -i only works if you have a pub key that can be copied over13:44
ogra_`asac, no, you need to manually install openssh-server it seems13:44
nerochiarosergiusens: i think i do13:45
stgraberseb128: barry has a work item to implement a basic UI on top of our DBus API, I think the current plan is to hack system-settings to have it do that until we get a spec from design13:46
asacogra_`: that happens by phablet-network-setup -i for me13:46
oSoMoNnerochiaro: you need to install notes-app-autopilot on the device… use the -p option to phablet-test-run13:47
asacif you dont run that before you start the tests13:47
asacthen thats the reason13:47
asacogra_`: ^^13:47
seb128stgraber, we have space for an update panel in system settings ;-)13:47
ogra_`asac, right, but i dont run that (why should it, my network works)13:47
barrystgraber, seb128: yes, the plan is to shame design into providing us with something much better by my crappy but functional ui ;)13:47
seb128barry, let me know if you need help for that part, we can help with the UI13:47
ogra_`asac, and if the tests need it phablet-test-run should simply do that13:47
seb128barry, oh, you have one? feel free to merge propose it against system-setting, we can review it ;-)13:47
barryseb128: fantastic, thanks.  i'm sure i'll take you up on that.  i'll probably start looking at it today13:48
barryseb128: no, not yet ;)13:48
asacogra_`: that ist he script that preps the stuff13:48
asacogra_`: someone decided that part of network is setting up ssh13:48
ogra_`asac, yes, but why cant phablet-tests-run no do that part ?13:48
nerochiarooSoMoN: ok, it runs the tests13:48
asacogra_`: i am not here to answer those questions. i am just saying that the approach to reproduce lab results is to use it before running the tests13:49
asacbecause thats what the lab runs13:49
ogra_`asac, imho running there tests should be transparent for endusers13:49
seb128barry, I can do the system settings side for you if you want, at least add a template of UI and backend to talk dbus13:49
asacphablet-tools is owned by your team btw :)13:49
ogra_`asac, i know13:49
asacogra_`: we need a single way to do it, yes.13:49
seb128barry, so you just have to file the cpp bits to do the actual work then13:49
asacin case of there is a dispute about different results,  we have to fall back to whatever the lab does13:50
* rsalveti reads backlog13:50
barryseb128: that would be great.  anything to jump start this would be greatly appreciated.  i should have a new systemimage package updated in the next couple of hours which will have the dbus api13:50
seb128barry, ok, let us the UI side that ... but it would be good if you could chase the design guys to get a design/mockup for what the UI should look like13:51
barryseb128: for now, we just want something quick and dirty.  we're doing some follow up but there aren't too many cycles available to design something wonderful yet.  we want to at least demo upgrading via ui in the next couple of days, even if it isn't pretty (we can do it from the cli, but even a minimal ui would be better)13:52
barryseb128: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-system-image/+bug/120180113:53
ubot5Launchpad bug 1201801 in Ubuntu system image "Add a minimal u/i to trigger updates" [High,Triaged]13:53
seb128barry, well, at least having an idea of the functional bits would be useful13:53
seb128barry, we have a "check for updates" button on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AboutThisDevice#Phone13:54
barryseb128: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-system-image/ubuntu-system-image/client/view/head:/systemimage/dbus.py13:54
seb128barry, I can plug that to a dbus call if that's all you need13:54
seb128but you probably want some Ui to display during download/install etc13:54
barryseb128: i think that's all we need for now.  we'll do progress etc. as refinements later.  my thought: click check for updates.  if one is available, the button turns to "Download Updates".  if that succeeds, the button turns to "Restart to Install Updates"13:55
barrysuper simple13:55
seb128barry, ok, get us the dbus api and we can handle the system settings side for you13:56
barryseb128: wonderful, and feel free to bounce anything back to me.  the link above has the current dbus api, and i'm working this (my) morning to get the packaging updated and landed.13:57
barryseb128: i'll ping you when it's uploaded13:57
seb128barry, ok, great, thanks13:58
=== eight is now known as eight1
mhall119tsdgeos: good morning14:02
tsdgeosmhall119: morning14:03
mhall119tsdgeos: I was thinking, can't we just re-use the existing poppler packaging with the latest upstream trunk?14:03
tsdgeosmhall119: maybe/probably14:03
mhall119Chocanto: do you want to take a stab at that?14:04
mhall119as long as it's in our PPA and has a version number that is lower than what the next official release will be, we shouldn't have any trouble14:06
lenzHey guys!14:17
lenzAnyone there?14:17
lenzUbuntu Edge Phone gets released today it seems?14:17
lenzNot only the software, but a14:17
lenzlso the hardware?14:17
ogra_`lenz, you'll see soon :)14:19
lenzI'm excited, cant wait.14:21
lenzI've been looking for a decent smartphone a year now14:22
lenzI didn't like Android very much and I dont want to be locked in MS or Apple.14:22
lenzUbuntu Edge seems perfect.14:23
=== Namidairo is now known as Namidairo`bnc
Chocantomhall119: Hey ! Yes I think, I'm not really good at packaging but I can always try14:26
=== rtg is now known as rtg-afk
lenzI can't believe no one is talking about Ubuntu Phone....14:33
wilee-nileelenz, the touch is the edge OS thats all that is talked about here14:35
kenvandineanyone know what's up with the smoke testing?14:35
kenvandinefriends-app is still failing, but passes for me on the device14:35
iBelievelenz, that's probably because most of the people here work at Canonical and know what is going to be revealed, so they can't talk about it.14:35
kenvandineand it is definately getting the fixed code14:35
kenvandinedidrocks, ^^14:36
=== diegoyam__ is now known as diegoyam
=== chihchun_afk is now known as chihchun_afk_afk
=== Namidairo`bnc is now known as Namidairo
mhall119kenvandine: hey, I saw a notification from Friends for the first time yesterday :)14:41
kenvandineyay :)14:42
mhall119I was all "WTF is this?  Oh wait, that's a notification bubble!"14:42
=== timp_ is now known as timp
* mhall119 loves it when things unexpectedly start to work14:42
=== Guest74237 is now known as dk
didrockskenvandine: I think it's more for gema14:51
kenvandinegema, ^^ :)14:51
kenvandinedidrocks, thx14:51
gemakenvandine: might be that you are using a different version from the one on today's image14:52
kenvandineoh, maybe it's the lock screen?14:52
gemacan you install today's image and check?14:53
gemakenvandine: it might be that as well14:53
kenvandinei did, it passes without the screen locked14:53
* kenvandine tries with the screen locked14:53
gemakenvandine: ack14:53
kenvandineyup... fails14:53
kenvandineso how do we force the screen unlock?14:53
rsalvetiogra_`: asac: sergio is looking into the getting goldfish to work as well14:54
rsalvetibut you know, we didn't get much done because of the firefigthing14:55
rsalvetixnox: how is the vendor separation coming along? were you able to create a different package/zip for that?14:56
xnoxrsalveti: yes, in saucy new queue.14:56
xnoxrsalveti: and in the ppa, used during the build as android-src-vendor package.14:56
rsalvetixnox: cool, so how did you create the vendor stuff?14:56
rsalvetixnox: just trying to think from a new port perspective, on how to get such vendor package in place14:57
xnoxrsalveti: it simply ships the vendor/$(!cm) in a deb package, and at build time, I just copy them back into the tree.14:57
rsalvetiso we can also start building some other images for the ports14:57
rsalvetioh, right14:57
rsalvetiso not post-inst14:57
rsalvetiwas thinking if we could do a post-inst solution14:58
xnoxrsalveti: if a new port, ships them under /usr/src/android/vendor/* then it's all good, and will be used. If pre-installed or as a new dependency.14:58
rsalvetithat's fine, was also thinking about a way that we could create a custom vendor.zip, that could also get installed via recovery14:58
rsalvetias then the porters could have such zip somewhere else in the internet14:58
rsalvetias we can't distribute them14:58
rsalvetithat way we could build the base image (without blobs), and distribute that over our infra14:59
xnoxrsalveti: well, the problem is that some of the vendor bits add compile/link targets, so it's not just an overlay. And I consulted with slangasek about it, and he said "put it all into multiverse/restricted" and pull in as a build-dep. It's not like those binary blobs change, or change often, or can be modified.14:59
rsalvetiright, but we can only distribute the nexus based blobs14:59
rsalvetiso not that useful for porters14:59
xnoxrsalveti: I also wish something like that. The way I invisioned it, was like so:15:00
rsalvetixnox: do you know which vendor adds a custom make target?15:00
rsalvetibesides copying the blobs15:00
xnoxrsalveti: anything tegra/nvidia and a few others.15:00
* rsalveti looks15:00
xnoxrsalveti: i think serg* had a look and ogra_` , as to what does more than copy blobs around.15:01
xnoxrsalveti: one could do two builds: android-$device-opensource android-$device-blobs, with the later doing a diff against the former. And then have wrapper scripts to fetch that and update the .zip / .img files as needed.15:01
xnoxrsalveti: we do want to easily update .zip & .img, as we'd like to "update" .zip from new kernel.deb  / libhybris.deb / platformapi.deb15:02
xnoxrsalveti: that's something I will work on next, after I land this package into the archive.15:02
rsalvetixnox: right, that's nice15:04
rsalvetiyeah, will check how the vendor stuff can be better handled as well, will do a galaxy s2 lite port15:04
mhall119and we're live!15:09
_5m0k3Any place to view a stream?15:10
mhall119_5m0k3: I meant ubuntu.com15:10
_5m0k3Got it now.  Had to clear cache15:11
mhall119dang, 7.5k already15:12
Chocanto600$ ? Arg :x15:15
mhall119Chocanto: only today, it'll be more tomorrow15:15
Chocantomhall119: Yes I read it ^^' But I think it is relatively high..15:16
ogra_`Chocanto, for a desktop computer in your pocket ?15:17
wilee-nileeshoot no more diamonds in my pocket with the edge. ;)15:17
mhall119Chocanto: it's a lot of money, but look at the specs15:17
mhall119wilee-nilee: the plight of the first-worlders15:18
wilee-nileejust on the soles of my shoes now15:19
ChocantoOh yes, effectively with these specs and the fact we can use it as a desktop computer... the price is justified15:19
=== schwukz is now known as schwukz_away
* xnox http://youtu.be/JQCP85FngzE15:21
xnoxthis is ubuntu edge ^15:21
Saviqspread the word! http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/ubuntu-edge :)15:22
=== schwukz_away is now known as schwuk
_5m0k3Dock included?15:25
=== dandrader is now known as dandrader|lunch
=== salem_ is now known as _salem
mhall119_5m0k3: no, we have to leave something for the accessories manufacturers :)15:46
_5m0k3Wise choice.  So I'll have to have my own bluetooth keyboard, mouse and hdmi monitor?15:48
_5m0k3The software story video has some interesting tidbits.  It refers to ubuntu touch as Ubuntu Mobile.  Is this a rebranding, or just a generic term?15:54
rickspencer3_5m0k3, I wouldn't read too much into that15:55
rickspencer3but how cool was ogasawara__ in that video?15:55
_5m0k3She did an excellent job. She mentions ubuntu for android is fully functional, today.  I guess functional does not imply publicly available?15:56
rickspencer3_5m0k3, U4A requires that the android OS be modified in small, but important ways15:59
rickspencer3so, she was correct :)15:59
rickspencer3and since canonical will be making the phone, they can ensure that it is modified as such :)15:59
=== ogasawara__ is now known as ogasawara
_5m0k3I understand that, but I'm talking about on current commercial hw (n4, for example).  I could take AOSP and make the necessary changes, but the u4a .apk is still not available16:02
xnoxogasawara: you rock =)16:03
davmor2ogasawara: you need to get outside now,  All the compliments is gonna make your head swell to the point you can't get out the doors ;)  So I'll throw mine in too,  Good job, well present, well announced and the n4 was held well too   :)16:07
=== _salem is now known as salem_
=== rtg-afk is now known as rtg
_5m0k3I guess if the sapphire crystal display shatters, you may have lost your phone, but you still have a decent computer16:17
mhall119_5m0k3: I think you'd be hard pressed to shatter it16:19
cyphermoxrsalveti: confirming, maguro is initializing bluetooth fine now, it seems16:26
cyphermoxI rebooted, I get bluetooth back..16:26
cyphermoxjust need to clean up and apply on today's image to see if it sticks16:26
rsalveticyphermox: awesome16:26
Philsyhello all16:48
fabian__Hi! Is docking and running Unity already possible on a Nexus 4 with the current build of Ubuntu Touch?16:49
PhilsyI was wondering if I could get some help on installing Ubuntu Touch on my HTC EVO 4G LTE16:49
ogra_`fabian__, nope, thats an april feature16:49
fabian__ogra_`: I see, thanks!16:49
ogra_`you can make calls, browse the web, send SMS and use 3G data today16:50
ogra_`(and a lot of other nice smartphone stuff)16:50
=== h01ger_ is now known as h01ger
ogra_`fabian__, http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/ubuntu-edge btw16:51
fabian__ogra_`: Yes, I've seen that one on hacker news an hour ago :)16:52
Philsyare there any good guides and downloads for installing ubuntu touch on a htc evo 4g lte?16:55
loolricmm: thanks for picking up https://code.launchpad.net/~saviq/qtubuntu/fix-reversed-arguments/+merge/17431316:55
ogra_`Philsy, check onm the devices wikipage if it is already ported16:55
ogra_`!devices | Philsy16:55
ubot5Philsy: You can find the full list of devices, official images, community images, and works in progress at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Devices16:55
Saviqlool, shame it took 10 days...16:55
loolcjwatson: the mp went in an hour ago16:56
fabian__ogra_`: So the docking means connecting mini-USB to HDMI and using bluetooth keyboard and mouse?16:56
ogra_`fabian__, or a dicking station :)16:56
fabian__ogra_`: Is it a uniformed connector?16:57
cjwatsonlool: cool, thanks16:58
ogra_`fabian__, well, i would expect some MHL-HDMI standadized thing16:58
xnoxfabian__: well microUSB supports sending HDMI signal, with the right hardware.16:59
ogra_`yeah, thats MHL16:59
ogra_`for details16:59
fabian__ogra_`: great, thanks for the infofeed!17:00
rtgrsalveti, why are the tags the same for cm-10.1.1 and cm-10.1.2 in git://phablet.ubuntu.com/CyanogenMod/android_kernel_samsung_tuna.git ?17:02
rsalvetirtg: just because we didn't have any kernel changes in there, 10.1.2 was a stable release, and then all repos got the tag17:03
rsalvetias you can then force that tag in the manifest itself, and download all the android repos based on that specific tag17:03
rtgrsalveti, so where are he patches you've requested coming from ?17:03
rsalvetirtg: from 10.1, but the final release17:03
rsalvetiwe were based on 10.1 already, but we got a dev snapshot17:04
rtgI thought we started out with the kerenel from cm-10.1 ?17:04
rsalvetiright, but no the final cm-10.117:04
rsalvetithat's why I sent the patches to update the tree there17:04
rsalvetirtg: http://phablet.ubuntu.com/gitweb?p=CyanogenMod/android_kernel_samsung_tuna.git;a=shortlog;h=refs/heads/cm-10.117:05
rsalvetithat currently contains all patches for the released cm-10.117:06
rtgrsalveti, right. so I'm trying to figure out why what I started with and cm-10.1.0 are so different. They don't have the same common ancestor.17:07
rsalvetirtg: hm, they shouldn't, check the phablet-10.1 branch17:09
rsalvetithey are common at least until the cm-10.1-M1 tag17:09
tedggreyback, What are you thinking for notification of application startup?  I think that e-mail thread died.17:14
Philsyogra : Thanks17:14
greybacktedg: no need to worry, for now shell will be doing the launching, so it knows what's starting17:16
tedggreyback, Hmm, not really.  I mean, it won't handle things like apps launched from the lock screen.17:16
tedggreyback, Or if another app uses an URL.17:16
greybacktedg: you have valid points. Let's have a quick meeting to just get this decided then.17:18
=== dandrader|lunch is now known as dandrader
greybacktedg: would you mind scheduling it please? Don't make it too late for me :) Bring ricmm along too17:18
tedggreyback, Do I need to invite Saviq as well?17:19
greybacktedg: sure, his input would be important17:19
greybacktedg: is tomorrow ok, I'm nearing my eod17:19
greybackand I've plans this evening :)17:19
tedggreyback, Yup, just touching base on topics on first day back :-)17:19
greybacktedg: ok cool17:20
nik90tvoss: ping17:21
om26er_mfisch, ping17:23
tedggreyback, ricmm, Saviq, in your mailbox17:23
mfischom26er_: pong17:23
om26er_mfisch, from the last talk we had, you said that pressing the power button overrides everything. but we need a reliable way to turn on the screen when we run our autopilot tests are run17:24
mfischom26er_: will you be pressing the power button?17:24
greybacktedg: thanks!17:24
om26er_s/are run//17:24
om26er_mfisch, it seems there are cases where people run tests on their personal phone and tests fail for them17:25
mfischom26er_: that's documented in our test plan17:25
mfisch"don't press the power button"17:25
mfischactually it's also a second test case17:25
om26er_mfisch, so there cannot be a way to turn on the screen that way ?17:26
=== ogra_` is now known as ogra_
nathaneltitanehello guys/girls, I am looking for info in regards to having the ubuntu on android install (the 'dock to switch' ubuntu for android)17:43
=== Namidairo is now known as Namidairo`bnc
iShotzHi, how can I install Ubuntu Touch onto my Motorola XOOM? the wiki page has a broken download17:47
iShotzhttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Devices/wingray This one17:47
ogra_iShotz, contact the porting person17:47
iShotzWho is he?17:47
ogra_no idea17:47
pmcgowannathaneltitane, the ufa build is not available atm17:48
ogra_but his (or her) contact data should be on the page17:48
geniiIt's smartboyhw17:48
iShotzhttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Install will this wiki page work?17:48
nathaneltitanepmcgowan: but is the project dead or still wip17:51
pmcgowannathaneltitane, its very alive, it needs a few tweaks to work properly on the hw, graphics config and such not generally open17:52
ogra_nathaneltitane, http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/ubuntu-edge17:52
=== schwuk is now known as schwuk_away
ogra_petty alive :)17:52
nathaneltitanepmcgowan: good :)17:52
nathaneltitaneogra_: i've checked it out17:52
ogra_*pretty even17:52
iShotzCanonical made some indiegogo thing today for the Ubuntu Edge phone17:53
iShotz32mil they wanted17:53
nathaneltitaneogra_: but i don't want to substitute android for UT17:53
nathaneltitanei want the underlying ubuntu17:53
ogra_iShotz, 1/2mil they got in 3h ;)17:53
ogra_nathaneltitane, i dont understand ... there is a normal ubuntu rootfs17:54
avoinesomeone knows if there is a way that I add a arm build on my ppa?17:54
iShotzorga, damn, I remeber when someone linked it on /g/ it was at 10k17:54
iShotzI'd donate buy money is tight as I'm only 1417:54
nathaneltitaneogra_: say i already have android or CM installed on my phone17:55
ogra_iShotz, ask for is as a christmas present or some such .)17:55
nathaneltitanei want to install the ubuntu rootfs and keep android as main... when docked will it switch to ubuntu as designed to and shown in the vid preview?17:55
ogra_nathaneltitane, ah, got it17:55
iShotzI'm saving for a new PC17:55
iShotzI got £100 in budget17:55
iShotzSo far17:55
iShotzI want about £400 for a decent PC17:56
iShotz300 if i get desperate17:56
iShotzRight, did a bit of look around17:58
iShotzhttp://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-touch-preview/daily-preinstalled/current/ Found these17:58
iShotzWould they work for my XOOM?17:58
iShotzDoes the whole Saucy thing matter?17:58
nathaneltitaneso? anyone?17:59
pmcgowannathaneltitane, I think the main issue is that the default is to mirror android to the monitor17:59
pmcgowannot sure if you have the source code to control that17:59
nathaneltitanepmcgowan: ??18:04
iShotzAnythin about me using this Saucy thing?18:05
pmcgowannathaneltitane, sorry that was a typo18:05
nathaneltitanealright. i don't want to be pushy, but does anyone have a clear status of the features and timeframe??18:06
pmcgowannathaneltitane, it basically requires a manufacturer to support it18:06
pmcgowanso it can work on Edge if we get to make that18:06
_5m0k3nathaneltitane: As demonstrated in the software video, Ubuntu for Android is fully functional today.  The Ubuntu VP of Engineering said today that the Android OS must be modified slightly for it to work.  I'm not sure if they plan on unveiling that process soon and then releasing U4A to the public or what.  I sure hope so18:07
iShotzWhat dose this mean? ubuntu_chroot to edit /usr/bin/ubuntu-session and set GRID_UNIT_PX=1018:08
mhall119iShotz: the Ubuntu SDK uses "grid units" for setting the size of components, and the mapping between grid units and physical pixels is determined based on the kind of device and screen18:09
=== Ursinha is now known as Ursinha-afk
mhall119you can change that mapping value by setting the GRID_UNIT_PX environment variable before starting the Unity session18:09
nathaneltitane_5m0k3: :)18:09
iShotzI uh...18:09
nathaneltitane_5m0k3: now that sounds like news to me. granted, it sounds promising enough18:10
mhall119iShotz: basically it changes the size of components (like buttons, or the launcher, etc) on the screen18:10
iShotzHow can I use it? my install tutorial tells me i need to usei t18:10
nathaneltitaneon a similarly related basis18:14
nathaneltitanecan i dd ubuntu onto an sdcard and have it boot from there for my asus tf700t?18:15
ogra_have you checked the ubuntu touch deices page ?18:17
* ogra_ thinks he saw a few transformer ports 18:18
ubot5You can find the full list of devices, official images, community images, and works in progress at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Devices18:18
nathaneltitanepoint is not to flash my tf18:22
nathaneltitanei want it on sd18:22
ogra_yeah, that wont work18:22
ogra_(patches accepted though :) )18:22
_5m0k3iShotz: I haven't tried on an image in a while, but if I recall correctly, changing that 14 to a 12 for grouper will enable side stage on nexus 718:23
avoineis this the right channel for question about cross-compiling?18:25
avoineand packaging for arm device18:26
mhall119avoine: #ubuntu-devel might provide better help18:39
avoineok, thanks18:40
avoinehehe the channel title say they don't18:40
mhall119avoine: oh, for apps yeah18:42
mhall119but thats where all of our packaging experts reside18:42
avoineok ok ok18:42
avoineyeah I forgot to precise I was looking for apps help18:42
avoineah there is #ubuntu-app-devel18:43
=== dandrader is now known as dandrader|afk
foldingcookiesorry if this is the wrong channel to ask, but does anyone know where I could find out if the ubuntu edge is going to have open-source drivers?18:58
wilee-nileefoldingcookie, The touch is the edges OS18:59
fmunozsfoldingcookie,  maybe it's too early to know, but try asking in the comment section of indiegogo18:59
foldingcookiefmunozs: hm, hard to tell if my comment got through as apparently you must be a backer to comment publicly19:07
tetris4wasnt Ubuntu going to use the android drivers?19:08
pmcgowanfoldingcookie, it will depend on the components selected and how the vendors for those deal with drivers19:09
pmcgowansome do not yet open source their stuff19:09
wilee-nileenot sure every smart phone has the same innards so who knows.19:09
cyphermoxrsalveti: sergiusens: review for https://code.launchpad.net/~mathieu-tl/phablet-extras/brcm-rename/+merge/176270 ?19:09
foldingcookieyes, surely--but if Ubuntu intends to advance freedom, they'll make it a priority to negotiate contracts that allow them to open-source the drivers19:09
=== dandrader|afk is now known as dandrader
foldingcookie(hopefully this isn't all off-topic for this channel, sorry if I'm interrupting people doing real work atm)19:10
wilee-nileefoldingcookie, Uh, ubuntu installed stock is fully open source.19:10
fmunozsfoldingcookie is talking about the drivers, which are probably not19:10
wilee-nileefreedom is an illusion anyway, but what ever floats your boat.19:11
rsalveticyphermox: only problem currently is that we only have one rootfs for all the devices19:11
fmunozsI think its too early to know, there is no information about what SoC will be used19:11
cyphermoxfoldingcookie: at the moment, we all have to deal with the drivers and devices how they are ... so sometimes it's binary drivers yeah19:11
cyphermoxrsalveti: oh?19:11
rsalveticyphermox: so how to deal with package specifics in there?19:11
cyphermoxgoing to think about it19:11
foldingcookiecyphermox: yeah, I just wanted to know if ubuntu's forays into hardware were intended to help out with that situation or not19:12
cyphermoxthey all have the same start and stop stanzas so I guess I'll make another job to start the subjobs based on model19:12
=== JanC_ is now known as JanC
pmcgowanfoldingcookie, we certainly lobby that every opportunity with the vendors, we already interact with most19:12
rsalveticyphermox: yeah, something like that19:12
rsalvetiyou can check the device type via getprop19:13
cyphermoxfoldingcookie: that's the kind of stuff that is normally discussed with vendors, as pmcgowan says19:13
cyphermoxrsalveti: right19:13
rsalvetiand then just start whatever device specific rule you have there19:13
cyphermoxrsalveti: with some delay to make sure the property service is really up19:13
cyphermoxyup yup19:13
fpswill there be devices where the whole software stack will be open source?19:13
rsalveticyphermox: you don't need any delay for get19:13
cyphermoxok, going to fix that up, and reflash all to test19:13
fpsincluding all drivers?19:13
rsalveticyphermox: it'll parse the file even if the init system from android is not yet ready19:13
cyphermoxrsalveti: yeah, I've seen the property service not being up?19:13
cyphermoxoh, it's just a file?19:13
rsalvetiit tries to use the service if available, if not it just parses the file19:14
cyphermoxrsalveti: I'll still need /factory to get on the maguro though19:14
rsalvetiwell, we do have a file, which is the base props that the android init service reads when starting19:14
rsalvetithat's why you need the service to use setprop though19:14
rsalvetiwe can fix that so it can be mounted automatically19:15
davmor2mhall119: https://bugs.launchpad.net/music-app/+bug/120384819:18
ubot5Launchpad bug 1203848 in Ubuntu Music App "If you hit the power button to lock the device the music is stopped and nothing starts it again" [Undecided,New]19:18
annerajbgreat job on ubuntu edge just contributed 600$ towards it!19:19
NoizeWill Ubuntu-Touch be available for the Next Gen. Nexus 7 ?19:19
cyphermoxrsalveti: which prop should I be looking at? ro.product.device ?19:23
rsalveticyphermox: yes19:23
mhall119davmor2: you can't start playing again after unlocking the device and switching back to the music app?19:24
davmor2mhall119: it start the track playing again after a pause and play but the music player seem to not make any noise.  So I think what is happening is the audio control has been taken away from the app19:26
nawkI am curious, why would anyone (apparently there's 24, atm) choose the $830 option when there's a $600 (one-day-only option)19:31
ogra_because they like to donate to the project ?19:33
mhall119^^ that19:33
nawkjust to show their generous/altruistic nature, they can't wait after the 24 (for-one-day-only) period. ^^19:35
xnoxnawk: some made a mistake and have too much money =)19:39
nawkxnox: well, I actually wish they would include a 'quantity' field for the $600 perk/option19:39
annerajbnawk: i wondered the same thing lol19:42
nawkannerajb how many are purchasing mate?19:43
annerajbnawk: oh i was referring to the 24 people buying the 830$ perk19:43
Michael____guys i'm having abit of a problem and looking on the ubuntu touch page it sugested coming here for help.19:44
nawkThe only reason why I am purchasing this thing is b/c of its limited availability. That said, man if this thing turn out of be a piece of junk I am so gonna be kicking myself.19:47
nawks/of be/to be/19:48
annerajbnawk: well i had a evo4g since it came out and been looking for a upgrade i think the specs are really good so as long as i can still use android and boot to the desktop ill be happy since this may replace my laptop for web browsing and basic file editing stuff.19:49
nawkannerajb, there aren't really any specs atm, it's not even finalized right now19:49
nawkbut Matt sounds like he's gonna be packin it up19:50
nawkwith  a lot of goodies19:50
annerajbnawk: there is a section called technical specs on the ubuntu edge indie go go page.19:50
nawkannerajb right, I missed that section.  After a review of those specs,  it's actually not all that impressive.19:57
ogra_nawk, huh ?20:02
ogra_it is laptop specced HW in your pocket20:02
ogra_show me anotrher phone with 128G local diskspace and 4G ram20:02
nawkogra_ tbo, from a phone/multi-purpose embedded user's pov, local storage has never been a major concern.20:08
rsalvetibut the idea is to also use it as a real computer, that's why a bigger storage20:09
ogra_hwo much storage does your desktop have ?20:09
annerajbnawk: i dont think that's the market the edge is aiming thought. but your statement is true a regular user (me) hasnt been bothered by the phone local storage space.20:09
ogra_(and have you checked how much of it you use regulary)20:09
nawkannerajb, absolutely. it is evidently reflected in sales.  Ppl always go for the lowest-capacity model.20:10
nawk(be it the galaxy Note, iPhone, what have  you)20:11
ogra_they all arent designed to run a full desktop20:11
ogra_the idea of the converged device is to replace all your machines and just have docks for different purposes20:12
ogra_and all your data locally without NSA intercepting your data access ;)20:12
ogra_(even with full device encryption)20:13
nawkatm, I am happy with my Note II coupled with a foldable full-sized solid keycaps keyboard (http://www.ownta.com/geyes-gk-308e-enhanced-edition-foldable-bluetooth-keyboard-for-mobile-phones-and-computers.html)20:14
ogra_nawk, well, you are free to not buy one (unlike these other people that spent already 1.2mio in 5h)20:16
nawkogra: as for full desktop, there are many solutions that would provide you full desktop experience. e.g. vnc to a virtual server.20:16
nawkogra_, what are you talking about? I just said I will buy several. :-)20:16
ogra_oh :)20:17
nawkmainly because for its exclusivity.20:17
ogra_so then you will see the difference ... lets talk again in may ;)20:18
nawkIn fact, I want this thing to kickass, so I can make a killin chop'in it to folks in Hong Kong. Hahah20:18
ogra_it will kick ass ... so badly ... everyone will envy you20:19
ogra_be sure20:19
annerajbnawk: just remember to buy the 600$ and not the 830$ one lol20:19
nawkannerajb, seriously, if they want to hit the 32M mark, they should really do a second (or even third) round of $600 Perk.20:22
nawkI suspect it is likely they will have to do that sometime before the deadline, because it's a major booster.20:22
timpnawk: is that even possible on igg?20:24
timpit wouldn't be an introductory price anymore if it is repeated20:24
nawktimp. desperate measures at desperate times. lol20:25
keithzgSo, contemplating doing the crazy thing and backing/buying an Ubuntu Edge, but there's no mention of which 3G frequencies it supports. Hmm.21:06
Noskcajkeithzg, I would assume all of them, but your area might have LTE/4G already21:07
keithzgNoskcaj: My carrier only supports AWS 3G.21:07
keithzgso if it isn't 1700/2100 WCDMA then it'd be useless as a cellphone for me.21:07
Noskcajkeithzg, I don't really know, i doubt anyone does. So if you get one, you might have to change plans21:08
keithzgnaw, you've convinced me then21:08
nawkLTE isn't really (part of) 4G, is it?21:08
keithzgI won't bother shelling out $600 for something that might not even work on my carrier21:08
tassadar_I would guess it doesn't support anything yet - probably only design of that thing is done21:08
tassadar_you can get refund in 28 days after you receive it, by the way21:08
keithzgtassadar_: Hmmmm.21:09
keithzgWell, screw it, might as well then.21:09
pmcgowanI expect it will have 4G LTE data and GSM/WCDMA for voice, that would be the norm most places21:09
keithzgpcmgowan: yeah, but which frequencies? That's the huge, huge issue.21:10
tassadar_they'll probably try to support as many as possible gsm/cdma standards21:10
pmcgowanthe LTE thing is a bit dicey sicne hte implementatons vary21:10
pmcgowankeithzg, buy one then ask the question for the faq!21:10
tassadar_*as many gsm/cmd standards as possible (whoa that was weird sentence)21:10
keithzgpmcgowan: Well, I did just buy one, heh, where would I actually ask a question for the FAQ? The comments link is predictably bloated and noise-filled.21:12
Noskcajnawk, In some countries, them mean the same thing. i don't really understand21:13
pmcgowanoh not sure but congrats21:13
pmcgowankeithzg, I'll try to get a clarification added if there is one21:13
keithzgnawk: AT&T and Verizon (with T-Mobile then joining in) successfully perverted the meaning of 4G. Technically it should only apply to LTE and other competing (there aren't any, though) technologies.21:14
T|ASKAnyone bought the UbuntuEdge?21:15
keithzgT|ASK: Yup, just did, because I am a crazy person ;)21:16
popeyali1234: T|ASK quite a lot of people it seems21:16
T|ASKI would like too, but I can't without paypal :(21:18
* keithzg sees an open device, throws money at it ;) (sadly the Jolla pre-orders were only for Europe, and this one it's unclear if my Canadian carrier would be supported, so I make continue to be thwarted and have to stick with my N9)21:18
GeniusWorkHi all21:19
GeniusWorkI have one question21:19
GeniusWorkIn this part Alternatively, if you are just building an image for an already supported device, you can specify the -v switch:21:19
jashsukeithzg: depends on who you ask. the ITU's definition of 4G didn't include LTE, only LTE-Advanced21:19
pmcgowankeithzg, did your ead the answer to What countries and mobile networks will support the Edge?21:19
T|ASKCan I fund it with two separate fundings?21:19
jashsunaturally due to industry pressure that stance has since changed21:19
GeniusWorkDoes it mean pre supported by CM or Ubuntu Touch??21:19
T|ASKPaypal has this magical 500$ cap21:19
keithzgpmcgowan: Yup. Still leaves it entirely ambiguous if my carrier would be supported, sadly.21:20
keithzgjashu: Fair point.21:20
T|ASKlets say I fund it twice with 300$ would this actually make it possible to get one?21:20
keithzg*jashsu, I mean21:20
T|ASKnot sure how indiegogo handles this21:21
sergiusensGeniusWork: it means for the devices supported in ubuntu, i.e.; mako, maguro, grouper, manta21:21
GeniusWorkOk thanks trying to build for yuga :)21:21
GeniusWorkStill reading procedures21:21
jashsuthis list may help: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Devices21:22
GeniusWorkSo i use this " phablet-dev-bootstrap [target_directory]" ??21:22
T|ASKI wonder they have no Direct CC payment21:23
GeniusWorkI know will use mako base21:23
savagejenSo can any of the ubuntu touch interfaces be used on a laptop with a touch screen?21:23
savagejenlike the fancy pinch stuff21:23
pmcgowansavagejen, yeah 13.10 has pretty good multitouch support and the new touch apps can run there as well21:25
savagejenpmcgowan, so adding the phablet-team ppa and then installing certain packages ought to do it, right?21:26
pmcgowansavagejen, to get the apps you cna just install from the repo21:26
pmcgowanthe new shell is not ready for desktop yet21:26
savagejenwhich repo?21:27
savagejen... ok so just moving to saucy will give me the touch interface?21:27
pmcgowanthe current shell and X already has multitouch21:27
savagejenI am on raring and get some touch screen functionality, but not the fancy pinch gestures21:27
pmcgowangoing to saucy you can get the apps21:28
savagejenwell ok I am willing to go to saucy... why not21:28
pmcgowanbut yeah, not too much used pinch gestures in the desktop21:28
savagejenso the pinch gestures don't just work with every app?21:29
tedgsbeattie, Hey, I'm a bit confused.  Is the expectation that click package hooks don't get a parameter?21:29
tedgsbeattie, Or it it something like ./hook <app id> ?21:29
sbeattietedg: correct, no parameter. at least for system hooks.21:30
tedgsbeattie, So then we're expected to update the overall status at that time.  i.e., the symlinks vs. reality.21:31
tedgokay, seems a bit weird.21:31
tedgBut not a blocker :-)21:31
popeyhmm, phablet-flash is failing for me...21:32
nawkkeithzg, in that case, I was wrong; LTE *is* a 4G technology.21:32
sbeattietedg: I sort of agree, but I see where cj watson's coming from on having the hook catch up to the state of the world.21:33
pmcgowansavagejen, the app needs to support the gesture where it makes sense, like photos and webpages21:34
savagejenpmcgowan, I see.21:34
savagejenpmcgowan, I have a Lenovo Yoga, which is a laptop that converts into a tablet mode21:34
keithzgnawk: Indeed; unfortunately, marketing by carriers has really muddied the terminology and conceptions (US carriers, having rolled out use of the 4G term for what were actually enhanced 3G systems before they had LTE rolled out, now are saying LTE and acting as if it's distinct...sigh)21:35
savagejenpmcgowan, so I have been itching to run it as a dual mode tablet ubuntu and laptop ubuntu21:35
savagejenpmcgowan, and it was not obvious to me how I could make that happen21:35
pmcgowansavagejen, I see, we are not "quite" there yet with true tablet mode21:35
pmcgowanbut be interested to see how the touch apps work there21:35
pmcgowanI suspect pretty good21:36
savagejenpmcgowan, well let me update to saucy21:36
savagejenis there anything else I need to install?21:36
pmcgowanvery good21:36
pmcgowanjust the apps you want should be it21:36
nawkkeithzg: mmm... I understand umts is a core 3g technology, can you give me one example of a competing technology?21:36
T|ASKanyone payed with direct cradit card payment for the phone? Do I need an indiegogo account to be able to do so?21:38
* popey deletes and re-downloads21:38
=== salem_ is now known as _salem
GeniusWorkGuys if I'm porting to non supported device should i use this " phablet-dev-bootstrap [target_directory] "21:39
nawkT|ASK, You need a Paypal account.21:39
T|ASKnawk: Really? No workaround possible?  That makes no sense imho :(21:40
keithzgnawk: EDGE and CDMA2000 are other 3G technologies. But "compete" is an iffy term to use there. Most carriers that ever used EDGE later upgraded to UMTS, which generally means WCDMA.21:40
timpI don't think you *need* a paypal account21:40
nawkI tried to checkout earlier, and it says that any donation over $500 needs to be done via Paypal21:40
timpyou are forward to paypal when you pay, but there you have the option to proceed by entering your credit card info without having a paypal account21:41
sergiusensGeniusWork: you can use it withough a -v and then breakfast your device and start modifying from there21:41
keithzgnawk: The first major upgrade to WCDMA was HSPA, and then later came HSPA+. It was during the HSPA+ rollouts that carriers started abusing this and calling it 4G, even though it's a subset of UMTS which is by definition 3G AFAIK.21:41
timpah you are right.21:42
T|ASKtimp: That's what I thought, too. But in the terms it's written >500$€Y is the limit21:42
timpif you want to pay >$500 you need a paypal account21:42
T|ASKtimp: and paying two times 300$?21:42
T|ASKI mean do that add up later on?21:42
nawkT|ASK sure, you won't get the phone haha21:42
keithzgnawk: Depending on how you look at it, WiMAX could be looked at as a UMTS competitor or a 4G-aspirant. But mostly it's just dead ;)21:42
timpT|ASK: I don't know. Why is there this limit for you? I just paid the whole amount at once using paypal21:43
T|ASKtimp: I have no PP account and never will.21:43
savagejenI wonder what the dock for the edge will be like21:43
savagejenbecause I would still prefer a physical network connection when docked21:44
timpT|ASK: ah. now I understand your $500 limit21:44
T|ASKtimp: you payed via PP or using the credit card via PP guest?21:44
* keithzg would prefer to have a network connection to his cellular carrier ;) yes, still going on about that, heh. (e-mailed the contact address with the question)21:44
keithzgI hope it's an OLED screen of some variety; the always-on display of the N9 is extremely nice, especially once customized to display current weather and etc.21:45
nawkI didn't proceed to purpose yet because by paying with my CC, I will be subjected to a 3% cross-border fee.21:45
GeniusWorksergiusens: Thanks21:46
nawkkeithzg thank you for clarifying that for me, you've been real kind.21:47
timpT|ASK: do you have an indiegogo account? When trying to contribute, there is a message that you get "personalized options" if you log in21:47
timpT|ASK: I paid via paypal, and paypal takes it from my cc21:48
timpT|ASK: so I didn't have the issue that you have now21:48
keithzgnawk: No problem. I have all this normally useless information rattling around in my head, I'm relieved when I can actually spit it back out usefully :)21:48
T|ASKtimp: and you logged in with your PP account right?21:49
nawkkeithzg: WiMax is dead? I thought it was supposed to be a killer connectivity with insane speeds.21:49
timpT|ASK: yes.21:49
timpperhaps the payment options can be configured by the project owner21:49
T|ASKso much trouble just to fund something :(21:50
=== kostkon_ is now known as kostkon
nawkkeithzg: I highly doubt it's really gonna have all the "cutting-edge" hardware. Companies simply aren't gonna give away a decade-worth of research for free, as much as we like everything to be open and free.21:50
nawkkeithzg: Nonetheless, product exclusivity is still a great fundraiser.21:52
keithzgnawk: In theory, yeah, WiMAX is great and all. But LTE seems to have won that race for a variety of reasons (some technical, some compatibility, some quasi-political), and Sprint (the only carrier in the US that tried WiMAX) has dropped  WiMAX and is moving over to LTE for their 4G network going forwards.21:52
keithzgnawk: AMOLED screens can be fairly cheap, it's mostly at higher resolutions that *OLED has been lagging behind and hence extremely expensive for the same resolution. 720p should be doable; then oh, the glorious blacks! And the power saving!21:54
solstagHey, anyone know if there is still see kind of changelog between dailies as there was in the '-preview' era?22:09
rsalvetisolstag: we're integrating that this week22:10
solstagrsalveti: ah, cool! thanks ;)22:10
rsalvetias we're pushing it for all the ubuntu images, and not only touch22:10
solstagoh, even nicer22:11
k1l_is there a channel for the ubuntu edge?22:24
savagejenI had heard a rumor that ubuntu-touch wouldn't use the software center. Is that true?22:29
popeyk1l_: this is good enough i think22:29
k1l_popey: ok. wanted to ask if its considered to put induction charging into the edge like the nexus4 and some nokias (or the old palm/hp) got22:30
T|ASKOk, I give up on funding the Edge22:32
popeyk1l_: nothing in the plan22:32
T|ASKIf they don't offer a payment option without PP account it's their fault22:33
k1l_popey: ok :/22:34
solstagT|ASK: it used to be that in indiegogo you could pay through paypal without having a paypal account22:38
k1l_what about the ubuntu4android demoed with the nexus4. is that available and what hardware do i need besides the BT keyboard and mouse?22:44
solstagT|ASK: Oh, I see it's not the case for this one, because of the value involved. Very unfortunate :P Well one can always create an account with a fake email, use it for this single thing, and then delete it, I guess. Painful.22:51
jashsuquite annoying they didn't use kickstarter22:52
jashsuonly draw of indiegogo is the flexible funding option22:52
jashsukickstarter also doesn't process the transaction until after the funding is successful-- at best it's annoying for indiegogo to basically hold the funds interest-free for 30 days22:54
=== Aww_ is now known as Aww
popeyrsalveti: i am seeing bug 1199914 that pmcgowan also saw. any logs you want me to get off it?23:01
ubot5bug 1199914 in touch-preview-images "sernsorservice and unity consuming cpu" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/119991423:01
rsalvetipopey: no, that's due a race when initializing the services23:02
popeyso just reboot it?23:02
rsalvetiif that doesn't get fixed with the android-upstart bridge, then we need to look further23:02
rsalvetialmost 2m23:02
T|ASKsolstag: Thanks for the reply. It's sad that they simply don't offer direct CC or BTC :)23:03
=== RAOF_ is now known as RAOF
=== Zic is now known as Guest89941
Joe_BAny chance of getting Jono to do a reddit AMA for the edge?23:31
barrystgraber: finally got a system-image 0.7 uploaded.  it has LP: #1202915, LP: #1192585, and LP: #120228323:31
ubot5Launchpad bug 1202915 in Ubuntu system image "The client reboots the phone when there's no update" [Critical,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/120291523:31
ubot5Launchpad bug 1192585 in Ubuntu system image "Add a dbus API" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/119258523:31
ubot5Launchpad bug 1202283 in Ubuntu system image "system-image-cli -v should display the files that are being downloaded" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/120228323:31
Joe_BI understand those can provide some valuable publicity for crowdfunding campaigns?23:32
mhall119Joe_B: even better, I think Mark is going to do one23:59

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