/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2013/07/22/#ubuntu-uk.txt

MrGarlic To all those complaining about the current lovely weather in Britain I say the following: boo to you sirs, boo to you madams, boo to you gender non-binary people.02:39
jenny_yo04:17
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brobostigongood morning everyone,07:50
marcushaslamhi07:55
brobostigonhi marcushaslam07:56
marcushaslambrobostigon: hi marcushaslam07:57
brobostigon:)07:57
marcushaslammarcushaslam: hi even07:57
marcushaslam:)07:57
brobostigonhi brobostigon :)07:58
marcushaslammarcushaslam: brobostigon: hi marcushaslam07:58
brobostigonlol.07:58
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MooDoo_morning all08:27
brobostigonmorning MooDoo_08:27
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mungbeanthat was an expensive beer...08:29
mungbeanwoops wrong channel :D08:29
mungbeanor rather i was replying to a 3 day old comment08:29
dwatkinsI do that a lot, forget I've scrolled-up in irssi.08:37
MooDoolol08:37
mungbeanmy employer has decided to replace 1300 windows xp desktops with windows 808:38
mungbeanfailsome08:38
MooDoobetter than xp....08:38
mungbeanwrong asnwer :P08:38
mungbeanof course win7 was the one they needed08:38
dwatkinswindows 8 with start8 isn't so bad.08:39
MooDoomachines come pre built with win808:39
dwatkinsultimately, Windows 7 is probably fine for a corporate environment that requires windws-based apps, though. I'm surprised there's been enough time for a company to evaluate Windows 8.08:39
mungbeanbut the decision making process was not based on anything concrete, rather an airy assumption that students would come to uni with win8 on all their ipads, android tabs and laptops in various states of crustiness08:39
mungbeanregardless of whether win8 is actually usable (it is not)08:40
MooDoowaht you actually mean is ms told the uni you can have a windows license for .5p a machine ;)08:40
mungbeanoh they sold their soul a couple of years ago08:40
mungbeansince then , the move away from open source has got millions in contractors, downtime and VM sprawl08:41
mungbeanand licences08:41
dwatkinsif all the tools are web-based, the OS is less important08:41
dwatkinsif anything requires IE6, then the network is already a failure ;)08:41
MooDooyou're just going to have to work your ass off fixing all the c**p08:45
mungbeannot me, some other poor buggers...actually rich buggers cos they will increase their contractor army08:45
MooDooyup08:46
mungbeanearning approx 3x what us munters earn08:46
mungbeanhey ho08:46
dwatkinsfixing or just explaining how the start menu works?08:46
mungbeangot that monday feeling08:46
arc__how do i reinstall grub08:47
dwatkinsarc__: this might help, or ask on #ubuntu - https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Grub2/Installing#Reinstalling_GRUB_208:49
arc__ok i got help form #ubuntu08:50
dwatkinsI had to do this the other day, there's a GUI-based automated tool, too, which is handy08:50
dwatkinshttps://help.ubuntu.com/community/Boot-Repair08:50
dwatkinsI was able to run it from a boot CD, and it fixed everything with little intervention.08:51
JamesTaitGood morning all, happy Pi Approximation Day! :-D09:18
mungbeanlol09:20
* DJones rounds pi to 309:20
DJonesThen eats said apple pi09:20
MooDoois that approximate?09:20
MooDoolol09:20
mungbeanmy son (3) made a new word yesterday. what's that? a hexagon...correct. what's this (show a quarter circle segment of pie): a quartagon09:21
SuperMattthat's quite cool09:25
SuperMatthe's obviously very logically minded09:25
mungbeanyes09:26
mungbeanscarily so09:26
SuperMattwhat actually is the name for a quarter circle segment?09:26
SuperMattand arc?09:26
SuperMattI think it's an arc09:26
SuperMatt*an09:26
mungbeanan arc is only the outer bit09:26
SuperMattslice?09:27
popey_morning09:27
SuperMattmorning09:27
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MooDooarrived ok then popey ?09:27
mungbeanin 3d it is a wedge09:27
popeyya09:28
MooDoogood good09:28
popeybeen up for ~29 hours09:28
MooDooouch09:28
popeyprobably time for sleep now09:28
MooDoothen why you on here lol09:28
MooDoowhat time is it there?09:28
popey02:2909:29
lornajanewhere .... oh, OSCON?09:29
MooDootimezones eh!09:29
popey\o/ pizza arriving09:41
SuperMattat this time of day?09:41
MooDooSuperMatt: it's 2am where he is09:42
SuperMattoh right09:42
MooDoooscon09:42
popey\o/09:42
SuperMattI'd just go to bed, tbh09:42
SuperMattI can't be doing with being up so late09:42
MooDoohe's going for the record, 29 hours uptime ;)09:42
popeynot my call09:42
popeymy roomie ordered pizza \o/09:42
MooDoowow so many awesome speakers at oscon09:45
Laneymmm portland09:48
Laneysupposed to have good beer09:49
* popey cosiders cold pizza for breakfash09:51
MooDooyou need sleep popey09:52
diploMorning all09:55
popeyyes, yes i do09:55
* popey sleeps09:56
mungbeanhow is winmail.dat still an issue in this day and age?10:11
mungbeanfortunately there's a thunderbird plugin for it10:15
dwatkinsonce again, the open sauce community rescues a coproration from embarrasment10:17
SuperMattoh, is that that file that can never get over 2G or you lose EVERYTHING?10:18
davmor2Morning all10:19
mungbeanSuperMatt: thats teh pst file10:19
mungbeanwinmail.dat is any attachment received from a outlook client10:20
mungbeanneeds to be converted before reading the attachments10:20
SuperMattoh yeah, you're right10:20
SuperMattoh gods, now I remember winmail.dat10:20
mungbeanhttp://ubuntuforums.org/announce.html?t=169042610:21
mungbeancan't remember my ubuntu forum password10:21
SuperMattI've never liked attachments on emails10:21
mungbeanbut had it for years, hope i didn't reuse10:21
SuperMattjust duplicates the bloody data10:21
SuperMatt"I'm just going to email 20 people this one document. Please make changes to it and send it back"10:21
SuperMattnow I have 21 copies of the document10:22
SuperMattI may have reused the password, but I've changed all the important ones since10:22
SuperMattif someone wants to break in to my gamespy account, go ahead10:22
mungbeanok10:22
dvrrHiiiiiiii10:37
dvrrubuntu  old kernel  removing time   i face  some problems  please  help me10:39
MooDoojust tell people what the problem is and if they can help you they will10:40
MooDoo!ask10:40
lubotu3Please don't ask to ask a question, simply ask the question (all on ONE line and in the channel, so that others can read and follow it easily). If anyone knows the answer they will most likely reply. :-) See also !patience10:40
dvrrplease open this URL http://paste.ubuntu.com/5900138/   i faced  this type of problems10:45
MooDoohave you tried apt-get -f instal ?10:46
dvrryes10:46
MooDooso what's the output of apt-get -f install ?10:46
dvrrplease  open  this URL  http://paste.ubuntu.com/5900154/10:47
DJonesLooking at that, /boot is full10:49
DJonesFrom line 3810:49
dvrryes10:49
dvrrboot partition full 100 %10:49
directhexyeah10:49
dvrrwhat i have to do  please  could you  tel me10:50
directhexthe emergency "get out of jail free" option when that happens is to delete an old initrd or two (i.e. one not in use) from /boot, then you should be able to complete the dpkg operations normally, including uninstalling old kernels10:50
MooDoooh bugger missed that :)10:50
directhexi.e. what does "ls -hl /boot" and "uname -a" say?10:50
DJonesIts not something I've done, so I wouldn't like to make any any suggestion, somebody else should be able to help though10:51
dvrrroot@ubuntu:~# uname -a Linux ubuntu 3.5.0-32-generic #53-Ubuntu SMP Wed May 29 20:23:04 UTC 2013 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux10:51
directhexok, so 3.5.0-32-generic in use currently10:51
dvrrusing  ls -hl    please open this URL  http://paste.ubuntu.com/5900164/10:53
directhexok, so you have 7 kernels installed10:53
directhexlet's do what i said - delete some files you aren't using, let the "apt-get -f install" finish, the uninstall the old kernels "properly"10:54
directhexso "rm /boot/initrd.img-3.5.0-2*" should do the first part10:54
directhexand free up about 100 meg of space10:54
dvrrno  automatically update10:54
directhex... i don't understand what you just said10:55
TheOpenSourcererJust run this command (inc brackets):10:55
TheOpenSourcerer( \10:55
TheOpenSourcererKERNEL_HIGHEST=$(dpkg -l 'linux-image-[0-9.]*-[0-9]*-[a-zA-Z0-9]*' | grep ^ii | awk '{print $2}' | sort -V | tail -n 1 | sed 's/^linux-image-\([0-9.]*-[0-9]*\)-.*$/\1/') ; \10:55
TheOpenSourcererKERNEL_CURRENT=$(uname -r | sed "s/\(.*\)-\([^0-9]\+\)/\1/") ; \10:56
TheOpenSourcerersudo apt-get purge $(dpkg -l 'linux-*-[0-9-]*' | grep ^ii | awk '{print $2}' | sed "/$KERNEL_CURRENT/d;/$KERNEL_HIGHEST/d" ) ; \10:56
dvrri did not install  7 kernels  automatically update only10:56
TheOpenSourcerer)10:56
TheOpenSourcerercourtesy of http://www.tolaris.com/2012/07/19/removing-old-kernels-from-ubuntu/10:56
directhexTheOpenSourcerer, note: will leave his system pretty screwy since he's not booted on the highest kernel right now10:56
directhexdvrr, i didn't debate that point, i tried to help you to fix it. if you're not interested in that, then fine.10:56
directhexTheOpenSourcerer, also, it doesn't fix the underlying problem - dpkg is stuck in a broken transaction because there's no free disk space, so the "apt-get purge" commands in that scriptlet cannot complete. deleting some initrds to make space first is not optional. dpkg needs to be in a clean state10:58
TheOpenSourcererahh.11:01
* TheOpenSourcerer runs away!11:01
* directhex wonders how long it takes to run a single "rm", assumes this is going to be more painful than he has time for11:02
MooDoodirecthex: try it rm -rf /* ;) <---- DO NOT REALLY RUN THIS I'M JOKING11:04
MooDoojust for the benefit of the logs :D11:04
* AlanBell slaps MooDoo for even joking11:06
hd5770moodoo that command is running a lot of stuff getting deleted11:06
MooDooAlanBell: *blush* :)11:06
MooDoohd5770: :) oops11:06
DJonesFrom memory, UBuntu has a --preserve-root flag set so it won't do anything unless you're on a really old version11:07
* DJones tries it in a VM just for fun11:12
DJonesrm: cannot remove ' pretty much anything '11:12
DJonesBut does break the system11:14
DJonesIts removed font/language packs sudo is no longer recognised as a command11:15
DJonesKilled off grub when trying to reboot11:16
hd5770lol11:18
DJonesIt was quite interesting to do as an experiment11:19
mungbeansudo -i first11:20
mungbeanrun it from vty-111:20
DJonesJust a straight sudo running in a terminal11:20
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czajkowskineuro_: mgdm http://www.groupon.com.au/deals/national-deal/Highland-Titles/717215553?nlp&CID=AU_CRM_1_0_0_203&a=71582793412:28
mgdmit's a scam12:28
mgdmhas no legal bearing whatsoever, as far as I recall12:28
diploAnyone in here ever used a HP MSA1000 ?12:42
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MooDooI guess that's a no then diplo :)13:18
diploheh, guessing so :)13:19
MooDoodiplo: lots of storage though :D13:20
diployeah, freebie from a customer13:21
diploBut 5 of the discs aren't working, wanted to go on the serial port but they haven't suppled the cable. Wondering if whether a cisco serial one would work, also just some general advice13:21
diploMay go and search for one now13:22
MooDoogoogle is your friend in times like these13:22
diployeah I'm failing like a pro13:22
mungbeancameron wants to set up a UK wide pron filter. that'll work then.13:32
brobostigonlol, quite.13:33
davmor2mungbean: if it goes through expect whoever removes it to get in for the next election :)  + I thought it was more to target child porn which in my opinion simply shouldn't happen fullstop.13:34
mungbeannah, nothing ever gets removed by the next govt13:36
mungbeanrah rah 17.5% VAT is terrible13:36
mungbeanetc etc13:36
davmor2yes and they did remove the 17.5% they replaced it with 20%13:37
mungbean"thats just temporary"13:37
davmor2yeah for nearly 4 years ;)13:38
brobostigonfirst time for everything, my nexus7 just bootlooped with memory errors, connected adb, tried to fix it, couldnt, so reflashed android, all back to normal.13:41
MooDooi'm thinking of a nexus 413:42
brobostigonMooDoo: nice bit of kit, :)13:43
MooDoobrobostigon: selling my galaxy s3 to get it :D13:43
brobostigonMooDoo: ah, :)13:43
davmor2MooDoo: apparently you'll need a bouncy case just ask popey13:48
MooDoodavmor2: people have already shown me their phones, then agian shouldn't I be waiting for this sparkly ubuntu phone as well.13:49
popeyGood morning all13:49
davmor2popey: morning how is oscon13:49
MooDoohowdy popey sleep well ish?  and how was the cold pizza :D13:49
popeyyummy13:49
SuperMattwait, how long were you asleep for?13:49
SuperMattcan't have been that long!13:49
popeydunno, some hours13:50
popeywide awake now13:50
davmor2popey: you won't get anywhere trying to use yum on ubuntu and yummy isn't even a command :P13:50
MooDoodavmor2: what?  you can't use yum on ubuntu, so what's this yum update i've just ran then :p13:53
davmor2MooDoo: you're not on ubuntu :P13:53
davmor2MooDoo: ssh'ing into RHEL boxes does count :D13:54
MooDoodavmor2: unless I aliased yum to apt-get13:54
MooDoodavmor2: ok ok i'll shutup now13:54
MooDoodavmor2: I don't like this new job czajkowski has, we never get time to abuse her any more :(13:54
* davmor2 waits on the almight whack to land on MooDoo 13:55
MooDoo:D13:56
* czajkowski slaps MooDoo over to the naughty step13:56
czajkowskiam here13:56
* MooDoo is in #naughtystep :d13:56
mungbeanstupid java crapware13:57
mungbeannotice the "ask" toolbar appeared on chrome are i rushed a java update13:57
mungbeanafter I13:57
mungbeanonly login to windows every few weeks and get bombarded with updates13:58
MooDooi'm the same with ubuntu.....don't update for a few weeks then get bombarded with them :D13:58
MooDoook so the royal baby is nearly upon us, but who cares about that when's the ubuntu phone here? ;) lol14:04
zleap:)14:04
zleapso where can we buy this ubuntu phone in normal phone shops14:05
zleapthis is where it needs to be, on display on the high street so people can walk in and see it as an option14:05
popeyit does?14:07
SuperMattwe don't even know there is going to be an ubuntu phone! (we totally know there's going to be an ubuntu phone)14:08
davmor2czajkowski: so the new chicks are settling in? Are they picking on piripiri14:10
czajkowskishe's picking on them and driving us all a bit crazy14:11
SuperMattdid someone say chicks? https://plus.google.com/photos/104760950939866700163/albums/5903437285399947169/5903437281909106562?authkey=CLrK5vitlcrKoQE14:14
davmor2czajkowski: she'll be boss then14:16
czajkowskidavmor2: indeed14:21
czajkowskimuch hen pecking14:21
MooDooi think your over egg-agerrating on that czajkowski14:21
lornajaneczajkowski: did I miss something important?  What's your new job?14:21
dvrrdvrr14:22
dvrrthank you very  much  everyone14:22
MooDoolornajane: http://www.lczajkowski.com/2013/06/13/a-bite-of-something-new/14:23
czajkowskilornajane: community manager here in EMEA for Mongodb at 10gen14:25
dvrrMooDoo,  directhex, TheOpenSourcerer  resolved my boot  partation  problem14:25
lornajaneczajkowski: that's awezome, I love the 10gen guys (I mostly know the driver team, Derick's a close friend)14:25
neuro_czajkowski: highland titles?! bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha14:26
neuro_czajkowski: *hug* :)14:26
MooDoodvrr: cool14:26
czajkowskilornajane: yes Derick is good14:28
czajkowskiso I am getting to know all about the php evens in EMEA :)14:28
lornajaneczajkowski: it's a terribly important community, I hope you'll make sure to attend them all (and purely by coincidence have a drink with me)14:29
mgdmczajkowski: you'll be at PHPNW13 then? :)14:29
lornajaneczajkowski: what mgdm said :)14:29
czajkowskione of the first thigns I've done is to make it easier to request help from us http://www.lczajkowski.com/2013/07/16/making-it-simpler-to-get-sponsorship-when-needed-from-10gen/14:29
czajkowskialso the more sharing of that post would be great :)14:30
czajkowskimgdm: it's when and where14:30
czajkowskiI#m now booked to attend a lot of things up to noember :)14:30
czajkowski*november14:30
mgdmczajkowski: Oct 4-6, Manchester14:30
neuro_czajkowski: please tell me you have no interest in that titles thing14:30
mgdmczajkowski: http://conference.phpnw.org.uk/phpnw13/14:30
MooDoopost shared czajkowski14:31
czajkowskineuro_: No but I found it cute and entertaining14:31
neuro_czajkowski: it's misleading, a scam and immoral14:31
popey\o/ breakfast14:47
SuperMattmore pizza?14:47
popeyno, shattering bacon14:47
SuperMattshattering?14:47
neuro_wat?14:47
SuperMattstreaky?14:47
popeymerican14:48
neuro_it's the worst kind of bacon14:48
popeyindeed it is14:48
popeyand I'm eating it with a non-shattering bacon14:48
SuperMattburnt to a crisp too, no doubt14:48
neuro_all of the hype, none of the meat14:48
neuro_yeah, i don't get the crisp thing either14:48
SuperMattI like mine quite pink and dripping in fat14:49
neuro_"hey, let's take the awesome meat from a pig, but let's get the fattiest, streakiest, least-meaty parts, and burn it until all the remaining goodness has been sucked out of it, and call it Awesome"14:49
popeyand add syrup14:49
neuro_yeah, what's that all about14:49
SuperMattgod, that makes me feel sick14:49
neuro_more and more i can't take americans seriously when they say they love bacon, but then you get a good look at what they're eating14:50
neuro_it's like someone saying "i love haggis!" but it's veggie haggis14:50
neuro_or "I love pizza!" but it's frozen pizza from iceland14:50
SuperMattimportant pizza question:14:50
neuro_yes14:50
neuro_is the answer14:50
SuperMattthe following morning, do you nuke it for a minute or leave it cold?14:51
neuro_sorry, continue14:51
arc__hi i need lot's of help with grub plz14:51
neuro_i eat it cold14:51
neuro_but that's personal preference14:51
neuro_and it depends on the pizza14:51
SuperMattarc__: what's the problem14:51
neuro_and how much cheese has been gunked on it in the first place14:51
arc__here is a paste bin http://paste.ubuntu.com/5900834/14:51
neuro_too much cheese + next morning = bin14:51
neuro_wow, nice14:51
neuro_don't do that14:51
arc__what14:52
neuro_install grub to a partition14:52
SuperMattinstall /dev/sda14:52
neuro_install it to the mbr instead14:52
neuro_yeah, that14:52
* SuperMatt nods14:52
arc__how14:52
neuro_like how SuperMatt said14:52
arc__ok14:52
neuro_BUT14:52
SuperMattsudo grub-install /dev/sda14:52
AlanBellwithout the 214:52
neuro_you are messing with the boot record on your disk, so tread lightly14:52
arc__ok exec it now14:52
neuro_measure twice, cut once14:52
neuro_or just ram ahead full steam14:53
neuro_whatever14:53
SuperMattthat's what I said when I had my circumcision14:53
arc__ok it works now14:53
neuro_ha14:53
AlanBellany particular reason why you are in the situation where you have to use such a command14:53
AlanBellTMI SuperMatt  :)14:53
SuperMatt:D14:53
neuro_generally if you don't understand what grub is doing, you shouldn't be doing things with it14:53
SuperMattdon't worry, it aint true14:53
SuperMattI never said that14:53
neuro_SuperMatt: said the vicar to the nun14:53
arc__also how to make record my  desktop faster when encoding14:54
neuro_yeah, that's a one line answer ... ;)14:54
neuro_oh wait, it is14:54
neuro_buy a faster computer14:54
SuperMattyup14:54
arc__ok14:54
neuro_or the longer answer:14:54
neuro_buy more ram14:54
neuro_and faster disks14:54
neuro_and a faster CPU14:54
neuro_or more CPUs14:54
arc__ok14:54
SuperMattall of this14:54
neuro_what SuperMatt said14:55
arc__it is a bit pointless to buy more cpu's if your motherboard dosn't support it14:55
* SuperMatt sheds a tear14:55
SuperMattI've just removed The H from my feeds14:55
neuro_hence "buy a faster computer"14:55
neuro_the h .... oh yeah, they're "sunsetting", aren't they?14:56
SuperMattyup :(14:57
SuperMattthey were quite good14:57
neuro_i never bothered with them tbh14:57
neuro_i never really rated heise's quality, but that's probably just a snap rash decision based on nothing but gut instinct14:57
neuro_oh no, The Verge reviews R.I.P.D. ... "'Men in Black' meets 'Ghostbusters,' minus the good parts"14:59
neuro_and i was looking forward to it too14:59
SuperMatt:(14:59
mgdmheh, I saw a prety scathing review of it the other day14:59
neuro_i have something of a mancrush on ryan reynolds15:00
neuro_also, you know, Mary Louise Parker15:00
mungbeani threw a laptop and a motherboard in the skip at the dump on sautrday15:01
neuro_bad15:01
MooDoodamn I thought that looked good, I shou;dn't have watched atlantic rim as it's put me off pacific rim :(15:01
neuro_naughty bad person15:01
mungbeanas i stared into the abyss i saw other techonology staring back at me "pleeeease rescue me"15:01
neuro_was it a kosher WEEE skip, or was it just like a skip "down the street"15:02
arc__anyway when i started fire starter it came with an error that failed to open system log15:02
mungbeana WEEEEEEEEE skip15:02
mungbeanat the dump15:02
mungbeanalmost took a photo15:02
neuro_ok, you're not naughty then15:02
neuro_you should have!15:02
mungbeanyou go up some steps and look down on loads of equipment15:02
neuro_arc__: and was the system log in the place where it said it wasn't?15:03
mungbeanmen were looking at me15:03
neuro_ah15:03
mungbeanprobably cos i had my 3yr old son15:03
arc__no15:03
neuro_probably thinking you looked like an open source type, and might have tried an extraction mission15:03
mungbeanmaybe they thought i was gonna throw him in15:03
neuro_lol15:03
mungbeannah, wasn't wearing black tshirt15:03
popeyhttp://igg.me/at/ubuntuedge15:03
mungbeanor beard15:03
neuro_you just say to them "but the human body generates more bio-electricity than a 120-volt battery and over 25,000 BTUs of body heat!"15:04
arc__no event info will be available15:04
neuro_every time i see "igg.me" i think "is this iggy pop's new website?"15:04
neuro_arc__: have you tried checking with the fire starter community? not sure how many people in here will have used it and had to troubleshoot it before.15:05
* mungbean has been burned by early adoption before15:05
arc__ok will try that15:05
Laney"rakishly chamfered edges"15:06
Laneyhahaha15:06
neuro_the Jony Ive kool aid has been well and truly swallowed :)15:06
neuro_CHAMFERED EDGES, MOTHER****ER!15:06
neuro_good lord15:07
neuro_i just saw the goal amount15:07
SuperMatt\o/15:07
SuperMattyeah15:07
SuperMattit's... a lot15:07
neuro_they want 32 million15:07
mungbeanFinally, you can also boot the phone into Android15:07
neuro_MILLION15:07
SuperMattbut I imagine that there might be some companies about to put some big money in15:07
SuperMatt0.001% of the way there already15:08
neuro_into an untried device?15:08
SuperMattyup!15:08
Laneyit's going up every time i refresh15:08
neuro_oh, this is actually a Canonical thing?15:08
neuro_it's really unclear15:08
neuro_why do canonical need crowdfunded money to make a phone?15:09
MooDoothey are doing over a kickstarter like event?  don't they have the money already?15:09
neuro_haven't they heard of these things called "banks"?15:09
mungbeanIf we don’t reach our target then we will focus only on commercially available handsets and there will not be an Ubuntu Edge.15:09
MooDooneuro_: snap! :)15:09
neuro_mungbean: i like the passive aggressiveness there :)15:09
mungbeantesting market desire for the product15:10
neuro_a test would be a $100K goal15:10
mungbeanif you don't wash your hands you won't eat your dinner15:10
popeyYeah, it's not about throwing money at the problem15:10
SuperMatt0.02% \o/15:10
joshmyershey guys, I have a cronjob that runs s3cmd and sometimes outputs warning. I want to supress these warnings, can I pipe my command to like | grep -v 'WARNING' > /dev/null15:11
mungbeanstill, its a lot of phones and the skeptic in me says nearer $1m15:11
joshmyersto intercept warning?15:11
neuro_no15:11
neuro_well actually, yeah15:11
popey$1M wouldn't cover the cost15:11
popey£30 doesn't to be fair15:11
popeyadd a M to that ☻15:12
neuro_but if the warnings are going out on stderr, just do this instead: 2&>115:12
neuro_since you're redirecting stdout to /dev/null anyway15:12
neuro_that'll redirect stderr to stdout15:12
neuro_so foo >/dev/null 2&>115:12
neuro_joshmyers: make sense?15:13
joshmyersbut I dont want to redirect all stderr to /dev/null. I want to know if it gets an ERROR, and not warning15:13
joshmyersso I just want any output of WARNING to go to /dev/null / into the ether :)15:13
neuro_oh15:14
neuro_well do the grep *and* the 2&>1 thing15:14
neuro_but not the dev null15:14
neuro_or something15:14
neuro_my brain hurts15:14
joshmyerslol :)15:15
directhexis a 28 day warranty legal under eu law? it's not obvious, since it's not a "purchase" per se15:15
neuro_so wait, canonical haven't made a hardware product yet, right?15:15
neuro_directhex: they won't be able to override statutory rights15:16
joshmyersneuro_: I'd have thought this should work, but it doesn't: | grep -v "WARNING:" > /dev/null15:16
neuro_joshmyers: my brain is too mashed in this heat to figure it out15:16
neuro_joshmyers: so write a wrapper shell script15:16
neuro_that greps stuff out15:16
neuro_#!/bin/bash15:16
neuro_foo | grep -v waa15:16
neuro_then do the cronjob pointing to the wrapper script15:17
popeyneuro_: we dont plan to make hardware15:17
neuro_so what's the money for?15:17
popeygetting someone else to make it ㋛15:17
neuro_tch ok, let me rephrase15:17
neuro_canonical haven't SOLD a hardware product yet, right?15:17
* popey stops being picky15:17
popeyyeah, we're a software company15:17
neuro_na, was a fair point :)15:17
SuperMattnot sure why so many people are going for the $600 option15:17
neuro_so my question is15:17
neuro_SuperMatt: cos it's a one day only thing?15:18
SuperMattyou don't get the phone, only one that has a knocked down price15:18
MartijnVdSneuro_: didn't Canonical sell USB sticks with Ubuntu installers in the web shop?15:18
popey$600 is what i paid for my iphone15:18
SuperMattwhich could be only a penny15:18
popeyit's not an outlandish amount for what you get15:18
popeyMartijnVdS: 3rd party15:18
neuro_MartijnVdS: that's not a consumer electronics product requiring support infrastructure behind it though15:18
joshmyersneuro_: but why do I have to do it in a wrapper script? why cant I just pipe to grep?15:18
neuro_joshmyers: because, reasons15:18
directhex$830 is an outlandish amount for what you get though. that's the price, assuming you don't impulse buy within the next 24 hours15:18
joshmyers:P15:18
joshmyershttp://sourceforge.net/p/s3tools/discussion/618865/thread/f81a67a115:19
neuro_$830 = UKP54015:19
neuro_entry level iphone 5 incl vat UKP52915:19
popeymine isn't an iphone 515:20
neuro_so?15:20
neuro_IT'S NOT ALL ABOUT YOU, ALAN!15:20
neuro_;)15:20
=== schwukz is now known as schwukz_away
popeywell, i was making the observation that 600 USD is the kind of amount people pay for unlocked premium phones15:22
neuro_sure15:22
popeyand this is way more premium than any existing phone15:22
neuro_i was making your point15:22
popeyheh15:22
neuro_iphone = this15:22
MartijnVdS"What happened?" "They agreed, violently."15:22
neuro_edge thing = this + 11 quid15:22
neuro_11 quid = not much15:22
neuro_this feels like a vanity project to me15:23
neuro_google produce flagship unmodified handsets to show off the OS15:24
MartijnVdSneuro_: well, if this is going to be shipped by some (or all) of the carriers in the CAG..15:24
neuro_apple produce the same15:24
neuro_although in saying that, every new apple phone has been a flagship device15:24
neuro_MartijnVdS: why would it be?15:24
MartijnVdSwhy not15:24
neuro_surely the money from the campaign will be used to make the phones/15:24
neuro_s/\/\?/15:24
neuro_crap15:24
neuro_messed that up15:25
MartijnVdShttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leaning_toothpick_syndrome15:25
=== schwukz_away is now known as schwuk
neuro_i hate backslashes15:25
Dave2neuro_: ITYM s,/,?,15:25
popeywhich is a flagship google product?15:25
MartijnVdSDave2: s{/}{?}15:25
neuro_Dave2: i'll substitute YOUR expression15:25
MartijnVdSpopey: The Nexus *15:25
neuro_yep15:25
Dave2MartijnVdS: now that just looks silly15:26
popeyThe nexus 4 is hardly premium15:26
MartijnVdSpopey: (and the Pixel)15:26
MartijnVdSDave2: \o/ Perl15:26
slvrMartijnVdS: does that actually work?15:26
popeyit's a budget phone15:26
neuro_the pixel ... *brrrr*15:26
MartijnVdSpopey: not when it first came out15:26
neuro_popey: never mind15:26
popeyyes15:26
popeywhen it first came out and now, it's _not_ a premium product15:26
neuro_popey: you appear unable to divine the meaning from my statements :)15:26
popeyinsufficient coffee perhaps15:26
* popey imbibesw15:27
popey-w15:27
neuro_c'est possible15:27
neuro_were you imbibing while typing again?15:27
neuro_glubglubglubglubspilldammitmesswipewipewipeswearhmmmglubglubglub...15:27
neuro_i'm not deliberately confrontational, just accidentally and genetically so15:27
popeyMy point is simply that $600 is a reasonable amount of money for a premium device, that's all. The iPhone has (historically) been seen as a premium device and sells for a comparable amount.15:28
Laneysomeone's paid the full price already15:30
Laney^o)15:31
SuperMatt1% of the way there15:31
SuperMattthat's not bad15:31
neuro_um15:32
Laneymaths?!?!?!?!15:32
neuro_which planet are you from where 37000 is 1% of 3200000015:32
SuperMattsorry15:32
SuperMatt0.0115:32
neuro_seriously15:32
MartijnVdSneuro_: "Super"Matt -> Krypton?15:32
neuro_dig out a calculator15:32
SuperMattdammit, it's 0.115:33
neuro_lol15:33
SuperMattwhat's wrong with me today15:33
neuro_you suck?15:33
neuro_it happens to me all the time15:33
SuperMattI don't know15:33
MartijnVdSSuperMatt: heat melting brain?15:33
SuperMattno, it's nicely airconned here15:33
MooDooSuperMatt: you need some iron brew :p15:33
DJonesWhen you look at the planned hardware, the price does seem reasonable for a premium phone, how many phones come with 4Gb of memory and a 128Gb SSD, so from that point of view comparing phone against phone, its not as much of a shock15:34
neuro_eww15:34
neuro_iron brew?15:34
popeythe memory itself is astonishly expensive15:34
popeyas is the screen15:34
neuro_DJones: will it still seem as good in a year?15:34
MooDooneuro_: first think I could think of .... silly me I've just got a glass on my desk15:34
neuro_manky cheap supermarket stuff :O15:35
SuperMattit's actually going up quite fast15:35
neuro_they need to average 43K an hour15:35
SuperMattover 1mil per day15:36
SuperMattoh how I'd lol if someone typed in too many zerons15:36
SuperMatt-n15:36
neuro_check out the big brain on brett :)15:36
DJonesneuro_: That would depend how other manufacturers improve their hardware, if it goes ahead and they don't match it then you never know15:36
SuperMattlike they were including cents, or something15:36
neuro_wouldn't surprise me if htc or samsung came out with a 128GB unit15:37
BigRedSanyone know where the AppArmour config for the guest account is in 13.04?15:37
BigRedSor if there's a 'proper' way to configure it to be able to use USB sticks :)15:37
=== joseph is now known as Guest64271
LaneyBigRedS: /etc/apparmor.d/lightdm-guest-session @ the includes15:40
Laney&15:40
* popey has the Ubuntu Edge prototype in his hands. Was stressfull bringing them over!15:41
SuperMattI am genuinely surprised how fast the money is going up15:41
popeyworried about losing them!15:41
Laneydon't "leave it in a bar"15:42
SuperMattcripes, I didn't realise a prototype had been made already15:42
neuro_SuperMatt: says so on the indiegogo page15:42
SuperMattI wasn't paying attention15:42
neuro_popey: them or it?15:42
popeythere's more than one15:42
ali1234does that really say $32 million?15:42
popeyis your display broken?15:42
ali1234i'm not sure15:43
neuro_so surely "an Ubuntu Edge prototype" would have been more accurate? :)15:43
neuro_ali1234: it does15:43
ali1234i think it must be15:43
popeywhy are you even bothering neuro_ ? ☻15:43
popeyi have _one_ in my hands15:43
popeyI have more than one in my bag15:43
popeyjeez15:43
neuro_yeah but you said "the" :)15:43
popeyyou should get a job15:43
popeywell there is only one prototype design15:43
neuro_COMPILING!15:43
popeyof course15:43
neuro_and you know i have a job, mister snarky :)15:44
ali1234so who wants to take bets on how much this actually raises?15:45
ali1234i call < $1m15:45
MooDooI can < $300k15:45
neuro_i'm sure it'll break that15:45
MooDoocall15:45
=== Guest64271 is now known as jlebrech
MooDooi take that back seeing as it's 64k and still has 31 days to go lol15:46
SuperMattproblem is, if it isn't anywhere near close by the end of the day, it aint gonna happen15:46
AlanBellday 1 and day 31 will be the biggest days15:46
SuperMattyup15:46
AlanBellI am struggling to see a business making an $80k decision on an implementation project in a 31 day window, for a project that can't start until next year15:47
ali1234i can't see many people paying $800 for a smartphone15:48
SuperMattI imagine it'll be for companies like orange and vodafone15:48
DJonesI wonder whether a manufacturer/network may jump in as well with funding if they want to hedge their bets and to give alternatives to straight android/iphone, presumably not anyone who's already committed to working with the firefoxOS for phones, but could be a possibility15:49
AlanBellI don't think they can, on indegogo15:49
AlanBellI think they are a bit screwed, you set up your target and go for it (not quite sure how a business is supposed to put 80k on a credit card either tbh)15:50
neuro_very easily15:50
neuro_find an exec with an amex centurion, sorted15:50
neuro_but yeah, agree with the timescale thinh15:51
neuro_thing15:51
neuro_"hey boss, can we get 100 of these phones that we can't deploy until at least May, and that may or may not actually get made?" "sure, go ahead"15:51
neuro_and if a carrier is interested, surely they just join the advisory council and stick their oar in?15:52
BigRedSLaney: ah, '#include' isn't a commented-out include, then?15:52
mungbeanfirefox has a knack of taking down my entire pc15:53
neuro_remember, sabdfl said in the video, this is a test project to put a foot in the water before making millions15:53
neuro_of phones15:53
BigRedSI should probably read up on the syntax of this thing before editing it...15:53
neuro_lol15:53
mungbeanmaybe its to make people shut up15:54
LaneyBigRedS: nope, see C preprocessor syntax15:54
mungbeanso they can say "look we tried the phone thing but you guys didn't buy it"15:54
MartijnVdSLaney: also, sudoers syntax15:54
neuro_lol15:54
neuro_big gamble if they got the money15:54
mungbeantoo big a gamble15:54
mungbeancrowdsource the funding15:55
neuro_"oh no, now we need to build these things?!"15:55
MooDoosheesh 70k refresh then 94k15:55
mungbeanif its not there then neither is teh market15:55
BigRedSLaney: yeah, the missing space between the hash and the word 'include' just jumped out at me15:55
mungbeanwhat the biggest indiegogo raised before?15:56
ali1234perhaps the idea is simply to see how many people will buy one without having to commit to anything15:56
mungbeanperhaps, nothing lost there15:56
MooDoowow this is going up fast15:56
neuro_yeah cnet just posted about it15:56
MooDoothat explains it15:56
neuro_i think the record is The Oatmeal's Tesla Museum campaign15:57
neuro_$1.37m15:57
ali1234"We’ll choose the fastest available multi-core processor" - somehow i don't think an i7 will fit inside a phone15:58
MartijnVdS.. or the battery15:58
MooDooblimey who put in $10k15:58
MartijnVdSit's at $120 now15:58
neuro_MooDoo: matt mullenweg of wordpress fame15:58
MooDooneuro_: yes just read it15:59
DJonesI was just looking to see who had done the $10K15:59
ali1234does indiegogo accept bitcoin?15:59
ali1234i'd stump up the $600 if they did15:59
ali1234i can't justify spending that kind of real money on a phone though16:00
* neuro_ can16:00
neuro_but it'll be a new iphone later this year16:00
MartijnVdSI'm waiting for the next Nexus phone. Not switching to an alpha/beta phone os just yet16:00
neuro_yeah same here16:00
neuro_i need a phone that i know works, unfortunately16:01
popeyYou know it dual boots? ☻16:01
MartijnVdSpopey: during a call? ;)16:01
popeyhah16:01
popeySo you can boot to android or ubuntu16:01
neuro_popey: no good for me, android isn't in my workflow, but yeah, that's a good point16:01
ali1234that's kind of worrying. makes me think you know very well that ubuntu touch won't be usable16:01
mgdmHow about triple boots? Ubuntu, Android and FirefoxOS? :)16:02
ali1234it should be able to run mer too16:02
ali1234anything based on libhybris really16:02
neuro_and no, they don't accept bitcoin16:02
neuro_visa/mc/amex/discover/paypal16:03
ali1234despite what everyone claims, they basically are all just shells on top of the android kernel16:03
neuro_paypal only for non-USD16:03
neuro_LINUX KERNEL16:03
ali1234no, the linux kernel with the android patches which are not part of linux16:03
ali1234otherwise known as the android kernel16:03
neuro_which means it's a linux kernel with hw patches ;)16:03
ali1234the hw stuff isn't in the kernel, it is proprietary blobs16:04
neuro_you know what i mean ;)16:04
ali1234the android patches have very little to do with hardware16:04
neuro_but it's still the linux kernel, right?16:04
ali1234partly16:05
brobostigonwow, CM boots so quickly on my nexus7, flies. :)16:05
neuro_the ubuntu kernel has patches16:05
neuro_is that the Ubuntu Kernel?16:05
ali1234yes16:05
BigRedSyes16:05
neuro_same with RH16:05
popeyyes16:05
popeywhich is why we make a distinction between "ubuntu kernel" and "upstream kernel"16:05
popeyor "mainline kernel"16:05
popeymost other distros do the same16:05
ali1234it's certainly not what you get if you go to kernel.org and clone linus' git repo16:06
neuro_so you're saying they're not Linux then?16:06
ali1234no16:06
ali1234but they are the ubuntu, or android, or rh, or whatever kernel as well16:06
* popey notes neuro_ is in a particularly persnickety mood today16:06
ali1234all of them are linux16:06
ali1234none of them are each other16:06
ali1234they are not equivalent so none of them can be exactly linux16:07
ali1234yet they are all related to it16:07
neuro_popey: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWdd6_ZxX8c16:07
popeysomeone gave $116:09
popey\o/16:09
SuperMattawww16:09
MartijnVdShttp://dilbert.com/strips/comic/1995-06-24/ ?16:09
SuperMattfyi, it ha already done better than geary16:09
mgdmMartijnVdS: I knew what strip that would be before I clicked \o/16:10
MartijnVdS18 years old that strip16:11
SuperMattand we're still superiour16:12
MartijnVdShttp://dilbert.com/strips/comic/1995-06-22/ :)16:12
bigcalmGood afternoon peeps :)16:29
MartijnVdS\o bigcalm16:31
bigcalmHey :)16:31
bigcalm30min call with Rackspace and it appears that I have the VPNs set up correctly. Just need to get this one device to play ball16:32
=== emma is now known as em
AlanBellmy daughter just came running in to show me the BBC article about the funding campaign on her mobile17:46
bigcalm\o/17:51
bigcalmAlanBell: you'll have to buy them for the kids now17:52
diddledanouch, 32 meelion dollars?!17:52
=== schwuk is now known as schwuk_away
bigcalmDo I really want to fork out £390 quid now for a handset that will be amazingly out dated by the time I get it next year?17:53
* bigcalm bites his nails in worry17:53
Prostetnichttp://pastie.org/private/f6qhlrd2foqmlgiy0tzxpa17:54
Prostetnic http://pastie.org/private/rl3cqtrkqd3wi0sp7cng17:54
Prostetnic^^ can anyone help with casper-rw persistence?17:54
DJonesProstetnic: Please don't do that17:54
ProstetnicOn a multiboot live CD?17:54
ProstetnicDJones, paste urls? double post? or ask questions?17:55
DJonesProstetnic: Sorry, that was me only half reading, I saw the part at the top of the page & thought it was spam17:55
ProstetnicWell I guess it was suspicious behaviour17:56
Prostetnic|/17:56
bigcalmWith suspicious minds17:56
DJonesProstetnic: No worries, it would fit some spammers patterns, apologies again17:57
DJonesProstetnic: Probably better if you can give a bit more detail on the issue you're having and what you want to achieve17:57
ProstetnicDJones, no problem at all. :)17:57
ProstetnicI've setup a multiboot USB using grub2 as the bootloader17:58
ProstetnicI've followed all the steps I can find online to get casper to actually do persistent boots17:58
ProstetnicBut no luck.17:59
ProstetnicThought I'd try a last ditch attempt to see if anyone here knew how to do so.17:59
ProstetnicHold on a sec and I'll find the guides I followed18:00
DJonesMust admit, its not something I've ever tried, do the iso's actually boot and is it just the persistance part thats not working18:00
ProstetnicYes18:00
ProstetnicI suspect the persistence problem is that I've got the casper-rw file on the root of my usb18:01
DJonesI've only ever used pesistence after using usb creator to install an iso to the stick, which doesn't keep it as an iso18:01
ProstetnicBut it's mounting ISO files18:01
ProstetnicYes that's how I've used it in the past too18:02
ProstetnicUnfortunately not really multiboot18:02
DJonesIs this something you've had a look at http://cafeninja.blogspot.co.uk/2012/01/multiboot-liveusb-multiple-iso.html18:03
Prostetnichttps://help.ubuntu.com/community/LiveCD/Persistence#Setting_Up_Your_USB_Stick18:03
Prostetnichttp://www.pendrivelinux.com/boot-multiple-iso-from-usb-via-grub2-using-linux/18:03
DJonesI was just looking at that one18:04
Prostetnic^^^ These are the 2 guides I've tried to use. Looking a yours now18:04
=== Nafallo_ is now known as Nafallo
ProstetnicHmmm.... not sure about the extremely french and rather sales-y Multi boot live18:08
ProstetnicAch! I think I might give up for today. It's too hot for this nonsense.18:09
DJonesMaybe hang around for a bit, hopefully somebody else will be able to jump in with some advice18:13
ProstetnicSure :)18:17
diddledanargh, canonical, why have you put me in this dilemma?!18:22
diddledanI want. I want.18:23
diddledanWallet doesn't.18:23
MartijnVdSdiddledan: have popey buy it for you18:27
diddledanpopey, buy me an edge, please :-)18:28
=== Hornet- is now known as Hornet
diddledanwait, I _CAN_ afford it - just need to sell my blackbook18:28
diddledan\o/18:28
popey18:33
MartijnVdSTwo crowdfunding things on one day though.. http://t.co/B4tVJfi7bb18:37
diddledan*swear*18:43
MartijnVdSdiddledan: you can fund this one for $1 or $0 though if you want :)18:43
diddledanI just accidentally clicked "pay"18:43
MartijnVdSdiddledan: for the phone?18:43
diddledanyup18:43
TheOpenSourcererAm I late to the party: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQLe3iIMN7k18:44
diddledanTheOpenSourcerer: I just bought one18:45
popeyneve rheard of subbable18:45
diddledanjust this second18:45
MartijnVdSTheOpenSourcerer: saw that on G+ already ;)18:45
diddledanit's at threee quarter's of a meelion already18:46
diddledannot bad for day118:46
MartijnVdSit needs to do over 1M/day18:46
AlanBellpopey: so can we get a VAT receipt for an Ubuntu Edge?18:50
TheOpenSourcererCan't see it making $32m somehow...18:50
TheOpenSourcererAlanBell: My thoughts exactly18:50
MartijnVdSI'm not going to convince anyone to spend $80k..18:51
MartijnVdSAnyCorp18:51
AlanBellwith an avoidable 20% penalty in it18:51
directhexit's not a purchase, so there's no VAT receipt18:52
AlanBellindeed18:52
directhexthere's also no VAT per se18:52
AlanBellbut it is a sale, so canonical have to remit VAT18:52
MartijnVdSit's an "investment"18:53
TheOpenSourcererlol18:53
AlanBellnope, not an investment18:53
AlanBellas far as I can make out, it is a gift for the giver, and a sale for the receiver in terms of VAT18:53
MartijnVdSso what is it18:53
MartijnVdSif it's not a sale18:53
AlanBellit is a sale, but not a purchase18:53
MartijnVdSah18:54
AlanBellwe did fund the parallella thing without worrying about it too much, but that was a bit less money18:54
AlanBelland it wasn't going to be a UK business on the other side of it18:55
AlanBellso even if I thought £390 for a PAYG handset some time next year was a totally reasonable thing to take a punt on, I am not sure I want the admin pain18:57
TheOpenSourcererLike to see eclipse run on it ;-)18:57
popeyheh18:57
TheOpenSourcererUsably18:57
davmor2TheOpenSourcerer: I'm sorry you believe eclipse is usable? :D trollololo18:58
TheOpenSourcererrimshot.18:59
TheOpenSourcererBut will it blend?18:59
popeywow, got to be dedicated to punt 500 odd quid and then blend it19:00
TheOpenSourcerers/dedicated/stupid19:00
davmor2TheOpenSourcerer: I'll look forward to seeing your video blend it19:01
christeloh i havent had my parallella thing yet.. it was supposed to ship around easter wasnt it?19:01
TheOpenSourcererAlanBell: This suggests to me it's a purchase:19:01
TheOpenSourcererWhat warranties apply to the Ubuntu Edge?19:01
TheOpenSourcererIf you are not happy with the product, you may return it within 28 days of receiving it for a full refund. Please note, Canonical can not cover the cost of the return postage and packaging.19:01
AlanBellchristel: yeah, it hasn't yet though19:02
christelaha19:02
AlanBellTheOpenSourcerer: I don't think you can reclaim VAT on it though19:02
TheOpenSourcererWell, it's techncially a US sale so is exempt anyway?19:02
AlanBelldunno, isle of man company, shipping locally to the UK19:07
TheOpenSourcererAH19:07
AlanBellpayment in dollars, to indegogo - are they the supplier?19:08
TheOpenSourcererhttp://www.indiegogo.com/about/terms19:09
TheOpenSourcererAmerican terms.19:11
neuro_well ... ubuntu edge is rattling away at about 208K an hour19:27
MartijnVdS.. for now19:27
neuro_well, yeah19:27
MartijnVdS</cpt_buzzkill>19:28
neuro_if the average goes < 43K, they're stuffed19:28
AlanBelldepends on the objectives19:28
neuro_um19:29
neuro_to get 32m within 31 days19:29
neuro_it's a fixed funding campaign, reach total or fail19:29
neuro_and it's not kickstarter, there are no stretch goals or whatever, it's do or die19:29
neuro_veronica mars did 2.3m on their first day19:31
neuro_and that's the most successful crowdfunding campaign ever (so far)19:31
neuro_and they did ~ 7.3K an hour avg19:32
neuro_http://www.kicktraq.com/projects/559914737/the-veronica-mars-movie-project/#chart-daily19:32
AlanBellso, if the goal is to get articles on BBC, Guardian, Times, CNN, MSNBC, AlJazeera, RT about the product for free, then this might achieve that objective19:33
neuro_that's not "the goal", though, that's just a means to the goal19:34
neuro_and they're already on bbc: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-2340299419:34
neuro_oh, and we have a royal sproglet19:34
MartijnVdSyou do now?19:35
neuro_"we"19:35
AlanBella boy19:35
neuro_i see bbc1 is now bbc news19:35
MartijnVdSah http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk-news/blog/2013/jul/22/royal-baby-kate-admitted-to-hospital-for-birth-live-coverage19:35
neuro_the announcement has been sent from le hospital to le palace19:35
diddledanmay I spam my ebay link? :-p (I just finished listing my black macbook)19:35
neuro_i'd say fire away and see if you get kicked ;)19:36
MartijnVdSneuro_: Wait, they're French now?19:36
MartijnVdSneuro_: don't you mean "aus dem Krankenhaus in den Palast" ?19:36
neuro_this definition of "breaking news" ... BREAKING NEWS, BABY BORN FOUR HOURS AGO19:36
neuro_and cnn is hassling my phone with the news now19:37
diddledanhttp://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=321169932536 my black macbook is for sale! </kickbait :-p>19:37
* diddledan waits19:37
neuro_(cue countdown music)19:37
MartijnVdSdiddledan: you should tidy your desk :)19:38
Azelphurwow, core2duo for £500? macbooks really are overpriced19:38
AzelphurXD19:38
* neuro_ oofts at the price also19:38
AzelphurI paid £450 for my 11.3" i7 2.3ghz GT 650M laptop.19:39
neuro_MartijnVdS: never mind the desk, the laptop needs a good clean :)19:39
diddledanI'm not expecting to get the 50019:39
Azelphureven the 300 seems crazy for a laptop of that spec19:39
AzelphurI bought a similar specced lappy for my mum for £9019:39
Azelphuralthough, not a macbook19:39
Azelphurbut then, I suppose you're paying for the brand.19:39
neuro_ok, that was annoyiung19:40
neuro_the bbc news app on my phone just sent me a notification about the sprog19:40
neuro_and it played the first few bars of the bbc news theme when it did it19:40
Azelphurin other news, there are people on the beach this evening with a bonfire19:40
Azelphurwhy would you want to be hotter today?!?19:40
neuro_cos they can cook stuff?19:41
ali1234wah wah wah19:41
MartijnVdSAzelphur: some people don't think about their actions19:41
* Azelphur shrugs19:41
=== emmy is now known as Guest81125
ali1234are we nearly there yet?19:41
Azelphurali1234: nope19:41
neuro_where19:41
MartijnVdSwhere?19:41
ali1234"there"19:41
diddledanwe've reached 5k off 1meelion19:42
neuro_past19:42
neuro_1.003m19:42
AlanBellhttp://www.indiegogo.com/projects/ubuntu-edge just punched through a million19:42
neuro_in 4.75 hrs, not bad19:42
Azelphurholy crap, canonical are making a phone :o19:42
popeykeep up Azelphur ☻19:43
Azelphurhehe19:43
mgdmHmm, to Bootstrap, or not to Boostrap19:43
mgdmthat is the question19:43
neuro_twitter bootstrap?19:43
mgdmneuro_: aye. Building a toy site, wondering if I use that, or go from scratch19:44
neuro_do it19:44
mgdm(it's going to need to be all responsive 'n' shiz, but I find bootstrap pretty heavy in terms of page weight)19:44
neuro_i built a toy site for me and my mates, works a treat19:44
neuro_min it19:44
neuro_in fact it comes pre-min'd19:44
mgdmI do wonder a bit about all those presentational classes in the markup19:45
mgdmbut I can probably get over that19:45
neuro_haha, the dude who took the notice of the birth into the palace just totally mugged for the camera19:45
neuro_i can't believe i'm sitting watching rolling news coverage of a gold covered easel19:45
Azelphursaphire crystal displays o.O19:45
mgdmneuro_: the name of the game today has been 'padding'19:47
* mgdm notes that $work are not opting for the 'breaking news' tag on the site for that story \o/19:48
neuro_ooh, royal pres secretary is kinda cute19:48
Azelphurthis looks pretty awesome19:49
neuro_mgdm: :)19:49
diddledanAzelphur: buy it!19:51
Azelphurdiddledan: tempted :P19:51
* neuro_ is not tempted19:51
Azelphurneuro_: why not?19:51
neuro_a) i don't have the cash to hand yet (payday is friday)19:52
neuro_b) i'm waiting for the next iphone19:52
Azelphurlolphone :p19:52
neuro_c) i don't like the idea of running a dev phone as "my" phone19:52
diddledaniphone shmeyephone19:52
neuro_um ok19:53
Azelphurhmm, no warranty on a high end device?19:54
Azelphurthat's a little worrying19:54
neuro_statutory warranty19:54
emorrisHi, has anyone seen an issue on gedit in 12.04 where switching between tabs often doesn't cause content to be updated? Or does anyone know what this could be? I can't seem to find any relevant bugs.19:55
Azelphurneuro_: dunno, I feel like forcing statuatory warranties if the product fails is a bit crazy19:55
Azelphurif I buy a device like that and it dies, I expect to be able to swap it out without any fuss19:56
neuro_wat?19:56
Azelphurneuro_: statuatory warranty is the law in UK right?19:56
neuro_variable19:56
AzelphurI dunno, based on the FAQ it sounds like they're gonna be awkward about warranty replacements basically19:56
Azelphurgiven that they say only 30 days19:56
neuro_claim period EU-wide is 2 yrs19:56
neuro_england, wales, NI is 5 yrs19:57
neuro_oops, 6 yers19:57
neuro_scotland is 5 yrs19:57
Azelphurneuro_: 6 years, really?19:57
Azelphurso if anything that I bought in UK breaks in 6 years, I can send it back legally?19:57
diddledanAzelphur: only if it is due to poor workmanship or design19:58
MartijnVdSdiddledan: it's always poor design ;)19:59
diddledanlol19:59
Azelphurah, basically difficult19:59
Azelphurdiddledan: I mean if I'm forking out for an expensive piece of hardware, I sorta expect to not be messed around if it's broken19:59
Azelphurlike when I bought a £120 gaming keyboard from Logitech and it was broken, they just sent me a new one straight away no hastle19:59
Azelphurhassle*19:59
diddledanyeah, it'ld be nice if canonical committed to an overproduction of 10% of unitcount or some such and use those for any warranty replacements - after 1 year they can auction off the remainder20:00
diddledanfailure rates are like a bathtub curve - high in the first couple of months then practically nonexistant until end-of-life20:01
diddledanend of life, at which point it rockets back up again**20:02
Azelphuryea, I think I'll pass on the edge for now, the warranty, "specifications are subject to change" and the 2014 release date all put me off.20:02
neuro_http://sogahub.tradingstandards.gov.uk/sogaexplained20:02
neuro_click on 320:02
neuro_The law says that a customer can approach you with a claim about an item they purchased from you for up to six years from the date of sale (five years after discovery of the problem in Scotland).20:02
neuro_This does not mean that everything you sell has to last six years from the date of purchase! It is the time limit for the customer to make a claim about an item. During this period, you are legally required to deal with a customer who claims that their item does not conform to contract (is faulty ) and you must decide what would be the reasonable amount of time to expect the goods to last. A customer cannot hold you responsible for fair wear and20:03
neuro_The six-year period is not the same as a guarantee, but it does mean that even where the guarantee or warranty supplied with the product has ended, your customer may still have legal rights.20:03
Azelphurfun20:04
neuro_BBC, pfffft20:06
neuro_"if you are just tuning in, let us bring you up to date with the latest news ..."20:06
neuro_yes, if you are UNABLE TO READ the huge red banner saying ROYAL BABY BOY20:06
mgdm'some bird has calved'20:06
neuro_lol20:06
neuro_"population(earth)++"20:07
neuro_oh good20:07
neuro_dave's making a statement20:07
diddledanwait, royal baby boy? you mean succession still carries on through male heirs?!20:07
diddledanI thought the whole point of changing the rules was so that kate could have a girl!20:08
neuro_your attempt at humour is confusing20:08
neuro_wow, bbc one have just completely dumped the schedule20:08
neuro_julia bradbury will be well annoyed20:08
neuro_her new health show thing is supposed to be on now20:09
czajkowskiLaney: popey https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-vNXi52cReYk/Ue14Bu1U46I/AAAAAAAAU9A/XLKwbkRdvYc/w400-h300-no/1.gif20:27
Laneyhahaha20:28
czajkowskiLaney: popey http://femour.com/26-baby-animals-that-need-to-check-themselves-very-funny-gifs/#sthash.WM9UbJx7.dpbs20:28
Laneyi feel like that about potatoes20:28
czajkowski<3 #3 :)20:28
neuro_http://images.wikia.com/uncyclopedia/images/c/cd/PoTaToes.gif20:29
Laneyhere comes the storm20:30
DJonesJust saw this on twitter, The baby might be out, but the Australians have asked for the umpire to review the decision20:43
brobostigonlol.20:46
mgdmEDONTGETIT20:47
mgdmthough, cricket, at a guess?20:47
bigcalmLaney: Gimmie storm, don't hog20:55
ali1234it's stopped now20:57
brobostigonstill going on here, rain and thunder etc,20:58
mungbeanwe're due in middle of night20:58
bigcalmI love how Chromium forgets how to load youtube videos until refresh has been hit a few times20:58
mungbean£1.3M already, well i was wrong20:59
mungbeanmaybe they should extend the $600 phone offer20:59
popeythat's not happening21:00
ali1234popey: is your prototype just an empty shell like ogra's?21:01
mungbeanthis is what i've been up to: http://i.imgur.com/NL3Oorf.jpg21:02
mgdmnice21:03
mgdmthat's the first kit I ever built21:03
mungbean:D21:03
mungbeanthis one had over 50 tiny decals to apply21:04
mungbeanfinished another on the same day http://i.imgur.com/FnDEnEG.jpg21:04
mgdmooh, I did a Mustang too, though it was silver and blue21:05
mgdmand I didn't have an airbrush so it looked a little sketchy :D21:05
popeyali1234: didnt know ogra had one21:05
mungbeanmgdm: you should take it up again :)21:05
ali1234oh sorry it was a reshare... like jono's :)21:05
mgdmmungbean: I've been considering it - I think the Saturn V might look quite good in the corner of the room beside the telly :D21:05
popeyyeah, it's an engineering prototype21:06
ali1234you know the more i think about this the more i think it might be successful21:06
ali1234i mean the N900 sold like hot cakes21:06
mgdmneuro_: It has been September for 20 years, nearly: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eternal_September :-)21:09
neuro_Y U TELL ME DIS21:09
neuro_I NOES DIS21:09
mgdmI figured you were one of the few people I know who might understand (I am aware of the concept but I was 10 in 1993 and didn't have interwubs)21:10
neuro_dear god21:10
neuro_i think i already had an account on arbornet by then21:11
neuro_i was in 2nd year of college, but i kept sneaking into gla uni to meet up with mates and do net stuff in the labs21:11
neuro_we had no JANET in anniesland :(21:11
mgdmoooh, I have graph search21:14
neuro_do you have the new feed yet?21:14
neuro_hmm i has graph search too21:14
neuro_haha21:16
neuro_"My friends who like Android"21:16
neuro_unfriend, unfriend, unfriend, unfriend ...21:16
neuro_wow, this isn't creepy-capable at all ... "My single female friends who have interests similar to mine"21:17
mgdmwe had a talk at Whisky Web about how graph search works, it was quite interesting21:17
neuro_constructed purely by refining search from the drop downs21:17
mgdmand, yes, that's rather worrying21:17
neuro_"Likes The Stig · You like The Stig"21:17
neuro_ok21:17
neuro_thanks friendface21:18
neuro_annoyingly, the "13 of [your] friends have made the switch" to the new newsfeed are bloody facebook employees21:19
neuro_apart from a couple of randoms, no idea how they got it21:20
mgdmhehe21:20
* neuro_ shakes fist21:20
neuro_*CORY* ....21:20
ali1234doesn't facebook release a new newsfeed every 2 months?21:21
neuro_this is the new super magic one21:21
neuro_https://www.facebook.com/about/newsfeed21:21
mgdmthat looks like Twitter cards21:22
ali1234hahaha it looks exactly like google plus did 2 months ago21:22
neuro_i don't know what's worse ... having the Facebook VP of Mobile Engineering on my friends list, or knowing he can make a better meatball sandwich than me21:22
neuro_ali1234: as has that, it just hasn't been rolled out to all fb users yet21:23
ali1234yeah copying g+ isn't going to convince me to switch21:24
ali1234nobody i know uses facebook21:24
neuro_you know me21:24
neuro_well, at least in an internet way21:24
neuro_i can't stand g+, it's way too noisy21:25
neuro_and awful to look at21:25
neuro_that two column thing drives me batty21:26
neuro_oh good, front pages21:26
neuro_express "IT'S A BOY"21:26
neuro_the star "IT'S A BOY"21:26
neuro_guardian "A birth, a boy, a prince, a king"21:27
* mgdm prodded the Republican button earlier on21:27
neuro_:)21:27
neuro_wow, news at ten is actually showing Other News21:27
neuro_nope, back to baby21:28
neuro_there was a cracking one from the reporter out in Kate's home town (Buckleby)21:28
neuro_he was saying families were letting their kids stay up late to "see their local girl give birth"21:28
neuro_um, "see"?21:29
neuro_was there a private ustream feed that we missed? :)21:29
mgdm*shudder*21:30
bigcalmAnybody know how to force a dhcp lease to expire in open-wrt?21:31
MattJneuro_, I think it was you who recommended Synology?21:31
neuro_tangentially, yeah21:31
MattJSomeone did21:31
neuro_i think i pointed at them rather than recommended21:31
MattJYou'll be pleased to know that I bought one, and decided to abandon my self-build :)21:32
neuro_i'll probably be buying my first one on friday21:32
neuro_haha cool :)21:32
neuro_i mean there's merit to self build to learn how to do stuff21:32
MattJand I'm not regretting it, it's much better than I hoped21:32
neuro_but sometimes we just want stuff to Work21:32
neuro_i get paid to be a sysadmin, but not 24/7 ;)21:32
MattJ:)21:32
neuro_says the guy sitting beside two ESXi servers21:33
neuro_two NASes21:33
neuro_three laptops21:33
neuro_a netbook21:33
neuro_a desktop21:33
neuro_and a partridge in a gigabit switch21:33
neuro_and that's just in this room21:33
* MattJ looks at the 1U under his desk21:33
MattJWell it doesn't quite fit21:33
neuro_awww21:33
neuro_there are 1U NASes21:34
neuro_if you're prepared to burn a credit card or two21:34
MattJYeah, not quite prepared to go that far :)21:34
neuro_me either ;)21:34
ali1234i wonder how stupid i need to act on facebook to make everyone unfriend me21:36
ali1234considering the quality of my newsfeed i suspect the answer is "incredibly"21:36
neuro_like things like the BNP, Islam, KKK and Fox News21:37
ali1234haha21:37
neuro_should clear out most people in minutes21:37
ali1234sadly no21:37
ali1234that would get most of them21:37
ali1234but there's a few that regularly post stuff like that21:37
neuro_well if you like Islam as well ...21:37
neuro_and maybe a gay pride page or something21:37
ali1234the trouble with that is... if i make it too obvious that i'm trying to be offensive, people would realise it21:38
neuro_you'd get shot of everyone pro and anti gay, racism, bigotry ...21:38
neuro_stick in a like for The Fratellis and that'll be everyone21:38
ali1234but if i post both sides, people will think i'm being fair and balanced or something21:39
neuro_hehe21:39
ali1234or posting one side as "look how stuypid this is"21:39
neuro_like the stupid stuff first21:39
neuro_then unlike them a week later21:39
neuro_then like the sensible stuff21:39
ali1234i think i need to go more subtle than that21:39
neuro_then a week later do the fratellis21:39
neuro_stage it21:39
neuro_the short answer is just remove your account, wait for it to be completely deleted, then create a new one21:40
ali1234i can't do that21:40
ali1234i only have an account because i have to admin a page21:40
neuro_you can21:40
neuro_i think the answer is you won't do that :)21:40
ali1234if i didn't require a facebook account to do that i would just delete it and never go back21:40
neuro_why not hand the reins to someone else?21:42
neuro_or create a "that page only" account?21:42
ali1234too much work21:42
ali1234it was bad enough setting up the developer API once21:42
bigcalmI have a LAN of 192.168.1.0/32. There is one device on the network that I need to give the IP address of 192.168.5.1. Efforts so far have failed. How can I do this?21:42
ali1234our website has "login with your facebook account"21:43
ali1234this is a right pain in the ass to configure21:43
neuro_bigcalm: "need to"?21:44
ali1234i can't really hand it over to someone else because i am the only one who knows anything about computers :/21:44
neuro_lol21:44
bigcalmneuro_: need to, it's what the VPN provides21:44
ali1234bigcalm: going to need a network diagram....21:44
neuro_make router vpn endpoint21:45
bigcalmIt is21:45
neuro_use 192.168.5.1 as vpn route link subnet21:45
neuro_route traffic to/from lan /24 using routing table21:45
neuro_sorted21:45
bigcalmDon't understand these things :(21:45
neuro_which is why your question is the wrong question to ask21:46
neuro_your lan should be doing default gw via router21:46
neuro_router should route traffic to vpn21:46
neuro_lan will route via router routing table21:47
neuro_you were talking about this the other day21:47
neuro_can't remember if you said 192.168.5 is a /24 or just a vpn subnet or what21:47
neuro_like are all the things that need to be reached via vpn in a 192.168.5/24 subnet?21:47
neuro_or is it just a route to Other Stuff21:47
jpdsbigcalm: Giving something an IP address has nothing to do with routing.21:48
neuro_that21:48
neuro_actually, if you were using pfsense, you could just set up a filter rule to push all traffic from a specific IP or IPs on your LAN via the VPN interface rather than the default egress interface21:49
bigcalmI shall draw something to try and explain this21:49
neuro_oh no :)21:49
jpdsbigcalm: Does your machine already have an IP address?21:49
popeylooks like it'll hit 2 million before today is out21:49
neuro_blikmeh21:49
neuro_s/k//21:49
neuro_hmm at current rate, maybe :)21:50
neuro_more like 1.8m-ish21:51
neuro_which is still bloody incredible21:51
neuro_interesting that 39 people thought "nah, i don't want to save $230, i want to give canonical MOAR MONEY" and bought the non-one-day-only pledge21:52
=== funkyHat2 is now known as funkyHat
ali1234i would sign up if there was some way i could pay in bitcoin, but bitcoin + paypal = hell no21:54
neuro_looks like funkyhat is having vm problems21:55
neuro_i don't understand this obsession with bitcoin, frankly ;)21:55
ali1234that's because you don't have any21:56
neuro_nor do i need any21:56
neuro_not sure what the problem is about using "real" money21:56
ali1234you don't "need" a million yen either, but you wouldn't say no to it either21:57
ali1234the problem with using "real" money is i don't have any21:57
neuro_i'll wager the yen fluctuates less than the bitcoin21:57
neuro_so sell your bitcoins21:57
ali1234that's what i'm trying to do!21:58
neuro_lol21:58
ali1234i could sell bitcoins for paypal and then use that to pay indiegogo21:58
neuro_i thought there was an exchange that could pay out bitcoins to cash using some barclays app thingy21:58
ali1234however paypal are highly likely to freeze the account if it gets refunded21:58
ali1234because i only opened it an hour ago21:58
neuro_yeah, this all sounds much better than using money :)21:59
ali1234it's much better21:59
neuro_clearly21:59
ali1234notice that the problems happen as soon as "real" money is onvolved21:59
neuro_for you21:59
neuro_if i had enough in the bank, i could just use my visa debit card, or indeed my existing paypal acct21:59
ali1234converting bitcoin to USD is easy, it's going the other way that is difficult21:59
neuro_if i wanted to use up a credit card, i could do that too21:59
neuro_i think you got a bit muddled there22:00
neuro_unless you meant to say "bitcoins -> cash = easy, cash -> bitcoins = hard"22:00
neuro_in which case, what's the prob? :)22:00
ali1234the problem is there's a 99% chance that the campaign won't be successful, then i'll have $600 stuck in paypal22:01
neuro_oh i see22:01
ali1234since paypal isn;t a real bank, no protections22:01
ali1234since i got the $600 by selling bitcoin, they'll probably freeze it for 6 months22:01
neuro_then just wait until they break the funding amount22:01
ali1234yeah22:01
ali1234or even just wait until next may and just buy one normally like a normal person and get a proper warranty and stuff22:02
neuro_um22:02
popeythey're not going to be sold outside the indiegogo campaign22:02
neuro_wat22:02
neuro_exactly22:02
ali1234wat indeed22:03
ali1234so there will only ever be 40,000 of them?22:03
neuro_did you not actually *read* the thing?22:03
neuro_"The Ubuntu Edge project aims to do the same for the mobile phone industry -- to provide a low-volume, high-technology platform, crowdfunded by enthusiasts and mobile computing professionals."22:03
neuro_key bit is "low-volume"22:03
neuro_can someone layeth the smackethdown on mr (or ms/mrs) funkyhat? :)22:04
ali1234that is not specified on the indiegogo page22:04
neuro_eh?22:05
neuro_it's in the first paragraph22:05
ali1234nowhere on the indiegogo page does it say "this device will not be available outside this campaign"22:05
neuro_scroll down to "About our project"22:06
neuro_with the photo of photos22:06
neuro_"The Ubuntu Edge is an exclusive production run, available only through Indiegogo."22:06
ali1234ah, fair enough22:06
neuro_lol22:06
neuro_daftie :)22:06
ali1234well, that's interesting22:07
ali1234makes the whole thing even weirder i think22:07
ali1234i mean why go to the trouble of designing a phone and then only ever make 40000 of them?22:08
neuro_you need to read that page again ;)22:08
ali1234no wonder the thing is so expensive22:08
neuro_it's really not22:08
neuro_for what you're getting22:08
ali1234er... yes it is22:09
neuro_wat22:09
bigcalmI don't know if this makes anything clearer: http://discworld.cuth.eu/dump/a_thing.jpg22:09
ali1234$800 for a phone?22:09
neuro_that's about right22:09
neuro_for a 4-5" screen smartphone22:09
neuro_with quad core cpu, 4GB RAM, 128GB storage22:09
neuro_GSM, UMTS, HSPA, LTE22:09
popeysapphire glass...22:10
neuro_the htc one is only about 50 quid cheaper22:10
neuro_with a quarter of the storage22:11
popeythe memory and the glass are significant costs in the BOM22:11
neuro_sounds right22:11
popeyand we're not making any profit on this22:11
neuro_and htc one has half of the ram22:11
ali1234so am i to assume that it will be delivered with 14.04?22:11
popeythat would be reasonable22:12
ali1234and therefore it will receive updates (image updates that actually fix phone stuff) for 5 years?22:12
diddledan1.75mill22:12
popeydunno if touch is "LTS" or not22:12
popeygood question22:12
ali1234in any case, even if canonical does not ever make another phone, somebody else will22:14
ali1234if they don't, then i've lost nothing anyway, because nobody is going to make apps for a phone that only has a market of 4000022:15
neuro_if you just want a phone with Ubuntu on it, just buy a nexus 4 and shove touch onto it22:16
ali1234i want a phone with ubuntu on it that has apps22:16
neuro_and my suggestion is non-useful because?22:17
bigcalmneuro_: is my photo any more informative?22:17
ali1234there is no value in ubuntu touch as it currently is because there is no software for it22:18
neuro_bigcalm: sorry, i loaded it up then got distracted by shiny22:18
neuro_hang on22:18
bigcalmThanks :)22:18
neuro_so web server lives in a rackspace cloud22:19
neuro_i don't necessarily understand the "only traffic from 192.168.5.1" bit though22:19
neuro_are you saying the web server *only* accepts http connections from 192.168.5.1?22:20
neuro_(ps, s/visa-versa/vice versa/)22:20
bigcalmNot at this stage. Part of the web server may be moved to its own machine, but for now it's sitting on a otherwise public system22:20
bigcalmWe need traffic from the X4 to go to the web server via the VPN22:21
ali1234which machine is the VPN server? which machines run VPN clients?22:21
neuro_set a static route on the adsl router to route traffic to 162.13... via 192.168.5.122:21
neuro_simples22:21
bigcalmAnd from the web server to the X4 via the VPN22:21
neuro_wat?22:21
neuro_no22:22
ali1234if you do that, the ADSL router will route the packets over the default route (to the internet) where your ISP will immediately drop them because they are in the private IP range22:22
neuro_hang on22:22
neuro_brain is farting, i obviously need food22:22
bigcalmAccording to both Rackspace and the ADSL router, the VPN is working between the firewall and the ADSL router. It's now a matter of routing traffic around22:23
neuro_yeah i guess you could put a 192.168.1.0/24 route on the other end to point back via it's vpn endpoint22:23
neuro_if the router is/was NATting the traffic over the vpn connection, which it might do, then all the 192.168.1/24 traffic would appear to come from 192.168.5.1 anyway22:24
ali1234define "working" pls22:24
ali1234what network address is the VPN using?22:24
bigcalmI need to be able to, from the web server, make a call to 192.168.5.122:24
neuro_ok, that's new22:24
ali1234the diagram is missing most of the useful information :(22:25
bigcalmOne moment22:26
bigcalmhttp://discworld.cuth.eu/dump/another_thing.png22:27
ali1234whaaaat22:28
bigcalmThat is a screen shot from the ADSL router of the VPN connected22:28
neuro_thought the adsl was 212...something22:28
ali1234so the firewall is the VPN server?22:28
bigcalmIts public IP is22:28
bigcalmYes22:29
ali1234or does it forward the connection?22:29
neuro_right, sorry22:29
neuro_misread22:29
ali1234so 162 isn't a public IP addrss, it a VPN IP address...22:29
bigcalmIt is also a public IP address22:29
bigcalmAs I say, things might get moved around22:29
ali1234you have bought that whole range?22:30
bigcalmWe asked Rackspace to set up a VPN, they gave us this22:30
ali1234you will have to set up static routes on every machine so that they know how to reach 192.168.5.122:31
neuro_no22:31
bigcalmIt's one machine22:31
neuro_no, no, no, no22:31
ali1234yes22:31
neuro_PUT ROUTE ON ADSL ROUTER22:31
ali1234at the very least on the webserver, the firewall, and the ADSL router22:31
neuro_if the router is natting over the vpn tunnel, then no22:32
ali1234you will also have to put a static route on 192.168.5.1 so that it knows how to get to the VPN22:32
ali1234if you only put the route on the ADSL router the packets will get to the webserver and the replies will be dropped by the webserver22:32
ali1234alternatively the ADSL router will NAT them and send them over the internet and then the webserver will drop them22:33
ali1234if the firewall doesn't drop them first22:33
neuro_http://db.tt/MJI37HNq22:33
neuro_it's sideways for some reason :P22:34
ali1234that makes even less sense22:34
ali1234that will just send the packets from 192.168.5.1 back to 192.168.5.122:35
neuro_it is genuinely unclear to me where this 5.1 IP is coming from22:35
bigcalmOn the web server, I just did tracepath 192.168.5.1   While viewing the live view of another_thing.png, I saw packets being sent and received22:35
ali1234it's the X4 machine22:35
ali1234it's a second subnet behind the ADSL router22:35
neuro_bigcalm: is that right?22:35
ali1234which is something the ADSL router's NAT almost certainly can't cope with22:36
neuro_i thought it was the link subnet on the vpn tunnel22:36
ali1234no, that is the 162...22:36
neuro_wat22:36
ali1234hang on let ME draw a diagram22:36
neuro_no, that's a /32 on the other end22:37
bigcalmneuro_: your diagram is a better representation of my text :)22:37
neuro_ /32 is not a link subnet22:37
ali1234it's not on the other end, it's the VPN subnet22:37
neuro_bigcalm: it's a living ... ;)22:37
ali1234anything attached to the VPN is going to have a 162 address22:37
neuro_so it's an endpoint address22:37
neuro_not a link subnet22:37
neuro_bigcalm: what kind of router is it you have (can't believe i didn't ask sooner)22:38
neuro_make and model pls22:38
bigcalmneuro_: DrayTek Vigor271022:39
neuro_thought it looked draytekish22:39
neuro_right, explain the 192.168.5.1 IP please22:40
ali1234yes22:40
bigcalmWe will eventually have multiple locations, each with an ADSL connection and each with a 192.168.5.x address.22:41
bigcalmThis is so that we can send data to them rather that public IP addresses22:41
bigcalmAnd any data sent from the sites will come via the VPN as well22:41
bigcalmThere is an irritation with the set-up as one company will be installing the ADSL routers and setting up the VPN connections while another company will be installing the X4 devices which are the only devices to actually use the VPNs22:42
bigcalmWe had hoped to have the VPN terminate on the X4s themselves, but apparently we can't have that22:43
neuro_ok, here's the manual if you don't have it already22:43
neuro_http://www.draytek.co.uk/support/userguides/Vigor2710%20User%20Guide%20V1.0.zip22:43
bigcalmTa22:43
neuro_on page 147 there is an option to add a static route to "direct all traffic destined to this Remote Network IP Address/Remote Network Mask through the VPN connection"22:44
neuro_it would also be interesting to know if the VPN is configured to NAT or Route22:44
neuro_if NAT, this is easy; if Route, this is tricky22:44
neuro_if NAT then in theory the VPN traffic on the other end would appear to come from the VPN firewall22:45
neuro_and you'd just need to set rules on the web server to only accept traffic from the VPN firewall IP22:46
bigcalmWe need it so that only the X4 can send via the VPN, thus I thought that I needed to assign 192.168.5.1 to it22:46
neuro_how would the web server know what 192.168.5.1 is?22:47
bigcalmYes, the last part of locking down part of the web server to VPN originating traffic will be relatively simple22:47
neuro_think about it22:47
bigcalmI have been informed by the Rackspace netsec guy that the source IP address will be 192.168.5.122:47
neuro_right, in that case22:47
neuro_may i respectfully suggest you continue the conversation with Rackspace netsec guy, who appears to know more about their VPN firewall than any of us do ;)22:48
bigcalmAs I said above, I did a tracepath to 192.168.5.1 from the web server and I saw traffic on the VPN connection on the ADSL router22:48
neuro_right, so the traffic is tunneling out and being presented on an RFC IP22:48
bigcalmI did have a 30 min phone call with them today and I thought that I had got it all correct22:48
neuro_so it's a nat connection22:48
neuro_so you need to tell your X4 whatever that is to route to web server public IP via the vpn22:49
neuro_and the best place for that really is the draytek, but i'm not sure how granular you can make the routing22:49
neuro_from the manual is seems to be all or nothing22:49
ali1234if the draytek does NAT22:49
neuro_in theory it doesn't matter22:50
ali1234how will the webserver connect to a machine behind that NAT?22:50
neuro_cos the remote end seems to be NATing anyway22:50
ali1234this makes no seeeeeeeeense22:50
ali1234i'm out22:50
neuro_you're aware that these things are stateful, right?22:50
ali1234yes22:50
ali1234so when you've just switched it on and there is no state and you go to the webserver and type "ping 192.168.5.1" where does it send packets?22:51
neuro_IP_1:12345 -> router_1:whatever -> router_2:whatever -> IP_2:8022:51
neuro_then IP_2 says to router_2 "hey send these back the way they came"22:51
neuro_and so on back down the chain22:51
bigcalmIt's bi-directional. The web server needs to make RESTful calls to the X4 as well22:51
ali1234and when IP_2 tries to connect to IP_1, what happens?22:51
neuro_there's likely a route on the web server that says "hey, 192.168.5.1/whatever is routed via the VPN guy, awesome"22:52
ali1234right22:52
neuro_ali1234: the IP_1/2 thing was a hypothetical intended to discuss stateful firewalls22:52
ali1234so as i said, you need a static router on the webserver22:52
ali1234route*22:52
neuro_no nonononononononononononononoo22:52
neuro_there already IS one by all accounts22:52
ali1234this does not change the fact that it is needed22:53
neuro_23:48 <bigcalm> As I said above, I did a tracepath to 192.168.5.1 from the web server and I saw traffic on the VPN connection on the ADSL router22:53
neuro_stop confusing things22:53
bigcalmMe?22:53
neuro_no, ali1234 :)22:54
bigcalmOkay22:54
bigcalmThis is how the ADSL router is configured for the VPN http://discworld.cuth.eu/dump/a_third_thing.png22:54
ali1234so assuming the webserver has that static route, and it sends the packet for 192.168.5.1, how does the firewall decide which of the possibly multiple VPN end points it needs to send the packet to?22:55
neuro_because it's authenticating22:55
neuro_192.168.5.1 is the dsl router22:55
neuro_and i note it's 192.168.5.1/3222:55
neuro_so it's a single IP endpoint22:55
bigcalmYes22:55
neuro_soooooo i will assume that on both ends, the connections are NATted22:56
ali1234i see22:56
ali1234it's a point to point link22:56
neuro_so in theory, a PAT rule on the VPN interface on the DSL router would suffice22:56
bigcalmIf there were to be more than one device behind the ADSL router that needed to use the VPN, then a subnet would need to be used. But as there is only ever going to be 1 device, we can use a single subnet for the 1st 254 locations22:56
neuro_192.168.5.1:whatever -> 192.168.1.whatever:whatever22:56
ali1234yes22:57
neuro_and then site 2 would probably get 192.168.5.2, etc22:57
bigcalmThat's already been set-up. I just need to get .1 working 1st :)22:57
ali1234also it's not 192.168.5.1/3222:57
ali1234it's /022:57
* neuro_ gives up22:58
ali1234this is clearly specified in the screenshot, 192.168.5.1, network mask 255.255.255.25522:58
neuro_which = /3222:58
bigcalm:(22:58
ali1234oh yeah, my bad22:59
neuro_yeah, don't mind me, i only do this for a living :)22:59
ali1234suddenly everything makes sense22:59
bigcalm\o/23:00
bigcalmI just tried to click an option in the screen shot :|23:00
neuro_i wouldn't futz with it23:00
bigcalmYeah, so the VPN "works"23:01
neuro_hang on a sec23:01
neuro_let me try to get into work vigor23:01
bigcalmThank you :)23:01
neuro_ssh tunnel tomfoolery ahoy23:01
neuro_password remembered \o/23:02
neuro_hmm23:04
neuro_vpn doesn't show up as a target interface for PAT23:04
neuro_at least on our config23:04
neuro_but then again we don't have a vpn rigged for NAT23:05
neuro_i'd be interested to see if you change the TCP/IP Network Settings > From first subnet to remote network, you have to do [route / NAT] dropdown from Route to NAT23:05
neuro_s/see/see what happened/23:05
neuro_on that VPN >> LAN to LAN page23:05
neuro_for profile 123:06
neuro_then look at NAT >> Address Mapping to see if you can select the VPN as a target interface for PAT ...23:06
bigcalmI'm a little confused now. Terms I'm not used to23:08
neuro_PAT = port forwarding23:09
bigcalmI can see the drop down to change from Route to NAT, that's a start :)23:09
bigcalmOh, okay23:09
neuro_if you're able to set port forwarding rules on the router on the VPN interface, then you can let the web server talk back to the X423:09
bigcalmDo I need to do anything with RIP Directions?23:10
bigcalm-s23:10
neuro_nooooo23:10
bigcalmOkay :)23:10
neuro_i'd suggest not making any more changes just now however23:10
neuro_i'm about to go watch some DS9 then go to bed23:10
bigcalmHeh23:11
neuro_because i thought it was half ten when in fact it's after midnight23:11
neuro_if you're not bothered about the rest of the LAN being able to talk to the web server IP, this is in theory doable23:11
bigcalmI would _really_ welcome more help tomorrow. Very greatful for the time/info spent tonight23:11
neuro_if the draytek can do inbound port forwarding over the vpn interface23:11
neuro_yeah no worries :)23:12
bigcalmI hear that the company will hire a network guy at some point, but right now I feel that I've been dropped in it a little23:13
bigcalmWow, tis late23:13
neuro_aye :P23:13
bigcalmSleep becomes him23:13
neuro_good plan :)23:13
neuro_tootles all!23:13
bigcalmNight peeps23:13

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