=== dannf` is now known as dannf
=== smb` is now known as smb
* apw yawns07:41
* smb waits07:43
apwsmb, have you seen this KVM hang people are reporting in saucy (since -3 i _think_)07:46
smbapw, no, but mostly because I have not yet looked at kvm recently as I was busy with xen07:47
apw(and by hang i mean host locking solid)07:47
smbapw, do you have the bug number more ready than me?07:48
apwi saw it myself last night, and someone was reporting it on #ubuntu-kernel last night, but though i asked for a number i wasn't present if and when it was filed07:48
smbHm... lets see what is see in scrollback...07:49
apwso there was no bug from jdstrand then ?07:56
smbnot mentioned in this channel07:56
* apw starts looking to see whne it was introduced07:57
* apw gets out a piece of paper07:57
=== fmasi_afk is now known as fmasi
apwsmb, jdstrand, KVM hang bug filed: bug #120400508:11
ubot2`Launchpad bug 1204005 in linux (Ubuntu) "[saucy] kvm host hangs of guest boot with 3.10.0-5" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/120400508:11
=== ara is now known as Guest55554
ppisatiapw: brb09:01
apwppisati, heh09:01
larsubooting into 3.10.0-4 messes up my graphics. Uses vesa because it can't find /dev/dri/card0. Is that a known issue?09:43
larsuoh, this is an intel card btw09:43
smblarsu, If 3.10.0-3 was working still it might be the same module loading with arguments stopped working regression. I thought i915 was sometimes affected too. You might try the -5 kernel. apw, is that somewhere already09:54
larsuyep, -3 is definitely working (I booted into that now)09:55
apwsmb, larsu, seems to be in -proposed at the moment, but there are some prerelease ones here: http://people.canonical.com/~apw/master-next-saucy/09:56
smbCurrently still in proposed but that should not be enabled09:56
smbOr directly wget from launchpad09:56
larsusmb, apw: thanks, I will try that one09:58
seb128hey there09:58
seb128larsu, did you figure out your intel issue?09:58
rickspencer3apw pinging you because I thought you might be up10:00
rickspencer3wireless doesn't work for me with the new kernel :(10:00
rickspencer3and it sounds like larsu has some video issues?10:00
larsurickspencer3: yep, apw just pointed me to -5, which might fix the issue10:00
larsusmb, apw, rickspencer3: -5 fixes it indeed. Thanks!10:04
apwlarsu, great ... it is stuck in migration cause of the alpha2 freeze, but they actually want it10:04
jdstrandapw: re bug #1204005, thanks!11:05
ubot2`Launchpad bug 1204005 in linux (Ubuntu) "[saucy] kvm host hangs of guest boot with 3.10.0-5" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/120400511:05
smbapw, Unfortunately I am as unsuccessful in getting the hang with a EFI booted desktop as I was before... :(11:10
apwsmb, i am going to put that on the boggle list and not worry about it too much for now11:11
apwsmb, it is clearly reproducible for many of us, so that is very odd indeed11:11
apwsmb, so i get to find it :/11:11
smbapw, Yeah. Just sad that I cannot be of any help there11:12
* ppisati -> reboot11:15
=== fmasi is now known as fmasi_afk
nessitadiwic, hello! I'm ready for debugging whenever you can12:15
diwicnessita, hi, I just started looking at your logs12:15
diwicnessita, it looks like several "maybe" bugs in combination somehow12:15
diwicnessita, but first, don't get confused by Raymond - he's often out on the wrong track12:16
nessitadiwic, I was going to mention, his comments really, really confused me12:16
nessitadiwic, is there anything I can run/test from here to help?12:20
diwicnessita, maybe we should try the wakeup_rt tracer to see what's causing system latencies. Instructions coming shortly, I just have to refresh my memory a little on how to do that...12:21
nessitadiwic, great, I'll wait for those12:22
infinityBenC: Were you going to do any regression testing (or a smoketest, at least) of the raring-proposed kernel on your hardware?12:28
diwicnessita, ok, now posted as comment in the bug12:29
* nessita goes and check12:29
diwicnessita, when it says "run for a minute or two" that means run skype/mumble/hangout 12:31
nessitadiwic, what should I run for the "Run for a minute or two" part?12:31
diwicnessita, just try to talk to someone on mumble e g12:31
nessitaah, ok12:31
nessitadiwic, attached, shall I also attach the pulseaudio verbose log?12:37
diwicnessita, thanks, I'm analysing the wakeup_rt file now12:38
diwicIt's the graphics, that's for sure12:38
nessitadiwic, the graphics mess up with the sound?12:39
diwicnessita, do you use open-source or binary nvidia drivers?12:39
nessitadiwic, checking12:40
diwicnessita, binary it seems like12:40
nessitaNVIDIA Driver Version: 304.8812:41
diwicyeah, that's binary12:42
nessitayeah, wasn't fully sure because in the upgrade to raring I did not explicitely enabled any propietary drivers12:42
diwicso; either we can try pursuing this track, i e, trying different driver versions, open-source drivers if you don't need anything that the binary drivers provide etc12:43
diwicor I could try looking deeper on the PulseAudio side to see if I can understand why you start getting underruns every 200 ms 12:44
diwicor both...12:44
nessitadiwic, happy to do whatever you think is best. I'm not sure about the open-source drivers, there was a time were those were underperforming, no idea now12:45
diwicnessita, okay, let's say you give the open-source nvidia drivers (nouveau) a try, and see if they work sufficiently well for you or if they cause other trouble.12:47
apwBenC, yo ... do i have access to your saucy repo, i was just trying to push the new linux-ppc-udebs thing that infinity was after12:48
diwicnessita, and if they cause trouble, come back to me and we'll try to look deeper on the PulseAudio side of things12:48
nessitadiwic, so, before I do that, question: I reproduce the sounce bug in a raring booted in mem from a pendrive12:49
nessitadiwic, doesn't that setup use the default stuff from the ubuntu repo?12:49
nessitaI reproduced*12:49
=== fmasi_afk is now known as fmasi
nessita(ie, the default stuff would be the open source driver)12:50
diwicnessita, yes, if you boot Ubuntu from a pendrive, that should use the open-source drivers by default I believe12:50
nessitadiwic, right, I reproduced the same audio playback issue there (was the second thing I tried -- first one was latest kernel)12:50
diwicnessita, so if that also causes the problem, it would be interesting to see what a pulseaudio verbose log looks like when booted from the pendrive12:51
nessitadiwic, I can do that. Is there any way of enabling verbose pulseaudio output without rebooting12:52
diwicnessita, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PulseAudio/Log doesn't include rebooting 12:52
nessitadiwic, ah, yes, but that disables autospawn, and I've noticed different behavior of the sound stopping with or without autospawn12:53
diwicnessita, in what way is it different?12:53
nessitawithout autospawn is much "harder" to reproduce the bug12:53
nessitawith autospawn I can reproduce almost instantly12:54
diwicnessita, autospawn is unrelated, possibly the debug level can cause that effect, but not autospawn in itself I believe12:54
nessitadiwic, but if the information is the same for you in both cases, I can certainly try that12:54
diwicnessita, you can also just execute "pacmd set-log-level 4", without restarting PA, and it will start outputting the verbose log to /var/log/syslog12:55
diwicnessita, if you like that better12:55
nessitadiwic, I do! will use that12:55
nessitaok, so, rebooting to raring from pendrive12:56
* henrix -> lunch13:02
nessitadiwic: hi there, I'm in the raring booted from pendrive. Definitely using nouveau: video                  19390  1 nouveau13:13
nessitadiwic:  ran the pacmd set-log-level 4 command but verbosity did not increased in syslog13:13
nessitadiwic: shall I have restarted the pulseaudio service?13:13
diwicnessita, no, that's not necessary13:14
diwicnessita, did "pacmd set-log-level 4" say anything else than "hi and welcome to pulseaudio"?13:14
nessitadiwic: yes, it did13:14
nessitawill paste the whole output13:14
nessitadiwic: I had audio playback at first, but opened chrome to do a hangout and audio stopped. Pasting output13:15
nessitadiwic: http://paste.ubuntu.com/5904065/13:16
nessitaPA output seems not verbose though13:16
diwicnessita, could you execute "pulseaudio -k", start the wakeup_rt tracer, go to a hangout, stop the wakeup_rt tracer and attach the output?13:17
nessitadiwic: yes. Shall I start from a clean raring again?13:17
diwicnessita, from the pendrive13:17
diwicnessita, you don't need to reboot, just restart pulseaudio with "pulseaudio -k"13:18
nessitadiwic: ack!13:18
nessitadiwic: I have more log in syslog (opening it with less showed me that there was much more verbosity). Shall I pastebin that?13:19
diwicnessita, ok13:19
nessitadiwic: http://paste.ubuntu.com/5904076/ doing the other test now (pulseaudio -k)13:21
diwicScheduling delay of 105.41ms, that's a lot, really13:22
nessitadiwic: does that give you any hint of what needs fixing?13:26
diwicnessita, the kernel needs fixing13:26
diwicnessita, if we could capture one of those really high spikes with the wakeup_rt tracer it could tell what part of the kernel needed fixing, too13:27
nessitadiwic: yeah, trying to do a hangout, but it keeps erroinh13:27
* nessita is on it13:27
diwicnessita, you can also try just using the audio wizard in mumble13:28
nessitagreat, let me install mumble13:28
nessitagaaaah 2fa13:31
* nessita hunts a 2fa code13:31
diwicnessita, no, just start the audio wizard13:31
diwicnessita, you don't need to connect to a server13:31
nessitadiwic: yeah yeah, already did, the 2fa is for logging in to LP13:31
nessitaand upload the trace13:31
diwicnessita, pastebin it here instead13:31
nessitadiwic: as you wish, already found the code generator13:32
nessitadiwic: http://paste.ubuntu.com/5904115/ (also uploaded to the bug)13:34
apwjdstrand, you are hitting this hang in kvm, could you tell me which display adpater you have configured13:34
apwjdstrand, if you have vmvga configured, could you switch it to cirrus and see if it will boot without eating your machine13:36
diwicSarvatt, ping, what do you think of the trace nessita just posted?13:37
diwicSarvatt, nouveau hanging the kernel for 90 ms? And nvidia did it for ~20 ms13:37
diwicSarvatt, also I can't really understand that even if nouveau wants to do that, why don't we just schedule audio/Pulseaudio on another CPU core?13:39
nessitadiwic: is there anything else I can do from this raring boot? happy to wait if that could help, but otherwise I may reboot to my "normal"  setup13:43
diwicnessita, feel free to reboot to your normal setup13:44
* nessita brb13:44
nessitadiwic, so, I will be resuming some tasks, let me know if you need something else from me13:51
diwicnessita, ok, thanks!13:51
nessitathank you :)13:52
nessitadiwic, not sure if it's relevant, but in all cases mic keeps working (people keeps listening to me)13:54
diwicnessita, I'm not sure if it's relevant either.13:55
rtgapw, just pushed a rebase to saucy unstable that might impact the boot issues on your laptop.14:00
rtgbjf, apw: did either of you have time to read the k-team email I sent yesterday entitled 'Patches dropped on the way to 3.11-rc2' ?14:01
bjfrtg, i glanced at it14:02
* bjf goes back to find it14:02
infinityBenC: Are you around?  linux-ppc in saucy is very broken.14:03
smbapw, After running for a while I had a kvm guest crash my AMD machine (using vmvga). Though it took a while and also the stacktrace points to virtnet ...14:24
=== josepht_ is now known as josepht
apwsmb, hmmm perhaps it is not the same, there seems to be a lot of issues this week14:32
jdstrandapw: lucid and precise are cirrus, quantal and higher are vmvga14:39
jdstrandlet me reboot to see if either makes a differnce14:40
apwjdstrand, it isn't reasonable for that to fix it at all, as clearly there should be nothing which allows a hang like this, but i would like to confirm you see the same as me14:41
jdstrandapw: yeah, and fwiw, cirrus is rubbish for quantal and higher 14:43
apwjdstrand, yep, i was much happier with the other one in R, but if it is that at least i have it cornered a little14:45
jdstrandthere is a bug on that too14:45
jdstrandbug #1080674 was for display corruption14:46
ubot2`Launchpad bug 1080674 in cairo "[QEMU] Corrupted desktop screen for raring desktop installation in QEMU guest (Cirrus graphics). Affects KVM but not VBox." [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/108067414:46
jdstrandbut on quntal, there were frequent guest crashes14:47
jdstrandI don't know if a bug was filed for that14:47
smbjdstrand, fwiw it also affects Xen and you cannot change the gfx there :-P14:47
* smb wished they had fixed the driver and not just the default gfx card for KVM14:48
* rtg starts bisect for mb raid0 mount failure in 3.11-rc214:48
jsalisbury** Ubuntu Kernel Team Meeting - Today @ 17:00 UTC - #ubuntu-meeting14:53
infinityI assume someone's still looking at https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/1204005 ?14:54
ubot2`Ubuntu bug 1204005 in linux (Ubuntu) "[saucy] kvm host hangs of guest boot with 3.10.0-5" [Critical,Triaged]14:54
rtginfinity, I think apw is on it14:55
apwinfinity, yeah that one i am working on right now14:55
apwinfinity, if you switch the graphics for your VM to cirrus it'll likely stop it eating your machine14:56
apwwhile i struggle to find out wtf is going on14:56
nessitadiwic, saw your comment in the bug, shall I try that ppa with my current raring installation (nvidia) or booting raring from the pendrive?14:56
infinityrtg: Oh, you mentioned that the foo-udebs package blows up for you on lts-raring?  I don't much care but, on the other hand, we tried to engineer it to work right for derivative kernels.  What breaks?14:56
rtginfinity, I fixed it, no big deal.14:57
infinityapw: I'm not hitting it personally, I'm just being annoying about following up on what looks like a nasty bug.14:57
apwrtg, what did you have to change14:57
rtgapw, added the flavours bit that is specific to saucy LTS14:57
rtgcontrol info14:57
apwoh yeah, i see what you mean14:57
apwinfinity, so he just had to configure it is all14:58
infinityRight, okay.  I was worried that fixing it meant breaking it. ;)14:58
rtggimme _some_ credit :)14:58
infinityrtg: I dunno.  Do I have to?14:59
jdstrandapw: ok, booting into 3.10.0-5 I started amd and i386 vms for lucid and precise, all at once, all using cirrus15:10
jdstrandapw: I got to the login screen, logged in, started a browser, all fine15:11
jdstrandapw: I then shut those down, and started an amd64 saucy vm with vmvga, got to the login screen, logged in and bam15:11
jdstrandI don't think I always had to log in though15:12
jdstrand(maybe, not sure)15:12
apwjdstrand, that sounds like waht i saw thanks15:12
apwso somehow vmvga tickles this, now to try and work out how a userspace emulation is imploding the world15:13
BenCinfinity: Broken how?15:21
diwicnessita, it does not matter.15:21
infinity-rw------- 1 adconrad adconrad 153262637 Jul 23 07:59 vmlinux-3.10.0-0-powerpc64-smp15:22
infinity-rw------- 1 adconrad adconrad   5148092 Jul 23 07:59 vmlinux-3.10.0-0-powerpc-e50015:22
infinity-rw------- 1 adconrad adconrad   5160618 Jul 23 07:59 vmlinux-3.10.0-0-powerpc-e500mc15:22
infinity-rw------- 1 adconrad adconrad 113357254 Jul 23 08:00 vmlinux-3.10.0-0-powerpc-smp15:22
infinityBenC: ^-- The lack of stripping on two out of four flavours...15:22
BenCThat's…very odd15:23
nessitadiwic, ack!15:23
BenCinfinity: I'll check into it15:28
infinityBenC: Many thanks.15:32
BenCinfinity: how do I reproduce the environment in the buildds that causes it to build debug debs?15:44
BenCinfinity: And are the modules stripped ok?15:45
apwBenC, full_build=true to fdr binary-arch will ensure the ddebs are made, expect it to take a while though15:45
apwBenC, if you are using an sbuilder then you can find where we set that in the source and just force it on15:46
BenCapw: Thanks15:47
infinityBenC: Can you think of a module that would be large enough to tell for sure?15:47
BenCdu -sh /lib/modules/*15:47
BenCAnd see if there's a large descrepancy15:47
apwfile on them tells you if they are stirppedd or not15:47
infinityBenC: file(1) claims none of my modules are stripped, even for e500*15:47
BenCI suspect the modules are ok for e500mc15:48
BenCAt least they match up with raring15:48
infinityRandom module pick.15:48
infinitySo, I dunno.  file(1) could be wrong, or module stripping might just be weird.15:49
BenCI don't think they would be fully stripped15:49
infinityYeah, it could just be file being wrong.15:49
BenCThere'd at least a debug link to the /usr/lib/debug blob15:49
infinityBenC: Anyhow, as you point out, the module sizes appear to match 3.8.x, ish.15:50
BenCinfinity: My guess is that the ppc64/ppc-smp kernels show this problem because it is just a copy of vmlinux where as e500 kernels are the uImage (stripped/compressed/wrapped)15:50
infinityBenC: So, whatever's going wrong here, I imagine it's just the kernel images.15:50
BenCProbably need to add some machinery to strip these sorts of cases15:51
infinityBenC: I'm a bit curious as to how that only became necessary between 0.3 and 0.515:51
BenCapw: this will likely be something to pull back into master for debian/rules.d/ 15:51
infinityBenC: Did we not always have massive debug kernels that needed stripping?15:51
BenCinfinity: That's what I'm wondering15:52
infinityBenC: The new CONFIG_ option may have tickled this.15:52
BenCWhat is the config option?15:52
infinityAnd CONFIG_DEBUG_INFO15:52
infinitySo, two of them.15:52
BenCdebian.ppc/config/config.common.ubuntu:# CONFIG_DYNAMIC_DEBUG is not set15:53
BenCThat's likely it15:54
rtgBenC, is that a change from 0.3 ?15:54
BenCrtg: Did this problem not happen in previous saucy linux-ppc kernels?15:55
infinity+  [ Ubuntu: 3.10.0-2.11 ]15:55
infinity+  * [Config] enforce CONFIG_DEBUG_INFO15:55
infinityBenC, rtg: This only showed up in -0.5, -0.3 was fine.  And -0.5 includes the above rebase.15:55
BenCAh, I remember having to enable that for the enforce15:56
BenCHad it disabled before15:56
BenCProblem identified15:56
infinitySo, it's probably right to enforce that, *but*, only if we can sanely strip the kernel that lands in the pakcages. :P15:56
infinityOtherwise, dropping it for PPC for now seems a sane workaround.15:56
apwyeah striping is normal during install i am supprised yours is not16:08
BenCinfinity: I can safely get it to strip16:10
apwBenC, i am somewhat supprised you have to get it stripped16:11
apwas the install i am sure asks for that for the binaries, and not for the ddebs16:11
BenCapw: All of the other kernels that end up in .deb's are bzImage and similar, which get stripped before they are compressed16:11
BenCapw: ppc/ppc64 use the raw vmlinux, which doesn't16:11
infinityYeah, but this should have been a problem for years, not suddenly today.16:11
infinityThat's what I'm unsure about.16:11
BenCinfinity: CONFIG_DEBUG_INFO wasn't enabled on ppc before this16:12
infinityI mean, yeah, more CONFIG_DEBUG stuff got turned on, but the kernels should have still been big and debuggy before.16:12
apwBenC, good to know16:12
infinityBenC: Oh, that *was* enabled elsewhere before, but not enforced on PPC?16:12
BenCProbably because nobody felt like dealing with it (maybe even me)16:13
apwenforcement is new, because we lost it in master and that is bad for the ddebs16:13
infinityWell, it would have never been on on PPC, even when it was in master, then.16:13
infinityThat's the bit I'm confused about.16:13
apwhmm indeed, odd16:14
infinityapw: Is CONFIG_DEBUG_INFO actually arch-specific in precise?16:14
BenCThe debian.master/config/enforce is what changed16:14
infinityBenC: Sure, but keep in mind powerpc wasn't always rebased source.  I'm trying to sort out the root of this.16:14
BenCinfinity: Most likely16:14
infinityIf it really was arch-specific (perhaps due to this), that's a bit lolz.16:14
infinityBenC: Anyhow, I assume there's some canonical kernel way to strip that isn't just "strip vmlinux"?16:15
BenCinfinity: I'm checking if there's maybe a "make STRIP=1 vmlinux or something like that16:16
apwthere must be a way16:16
infinityI nly see the MOD_STRIP business.16:16
apwstupid thing16:17
infinity$(obj)/vmlinux.strip: vmlinux16:19
infinity        $(STRIP) -s -R .comment $< -o $@16:19
apwyeah you might be able to switch16:24
infinityNo idea if that's bootable, but that seems to be the object we'd want.16:24
infinity(I see no reason why it wouldn't be bootable, I just can't test right now)16:24
infinityBenC: ^16:24
infinityBenC: So we want vmlinux.strip, not vmlinux, and a bit of movey-twiddling when installing it.16:25
BenCinfinity: Ah, that's really easy to do then16:25
infinity(Which is fine, you have to rename it anyway to add version/abi/etc)16:25
BenCDoesn't require syncing a fix back to master16:26
rtgapw, drat. my SNB mount failure appears to be Ubuntu specific. vanilla 3.11-rc2 works OK.16:44
jsalisbury## Kernel team meeting in 5 minutes16:56
* ppisati -> gym17:06
=== jsalisbury changed the topic of #ubuntu-kernel to: Home: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kernel/ || Ubuntu Kernel Team Meeting - Tues August 13th, 2013 - 17:00 UTC || If you have a question just ask, and do wait around for an answer!
* rtg -> lunch17:34
=== fmasi is now known as fmasi_afk
xnoxdoes our mako kernel have USB on the go patches ?19:38
ogra_xnox, all android kernels use the android gadget to be able to run adb19:39
ogra_so USb is claimed by that atm19:39
xnoxogra_: ok, but that was not my question =)19:39
ogra_well, we dont really offer a way to re-enable adb again if you disable it 19:40
xnoxstock mako kernel has on-the-go disabled and needs patches to be enabled, there are custom kernels available on $forums, but i'd like mine from a deb =)))))19:40
ogra_and you cant reboot without cmdline ... so it would be useless 19:40
ogra_we'd need a UI switch to toggle adb, then you could use OTG 19:41
ogra_i assume we will want these patches in 14.04 for convergence though 19:42
* rtg -> EOD20:32
F41lQuestion... can I get 32bit ubuntu kernel booting with EFI?22:05
F41lI have an IA32, efi-only atom tablet that I'm having issue getting ubuntu installed on. I tried a method of installing to a usb-stick and using boot-repair to change it to EFI, but it's complaining about the kernel not being compatible.22:05
BenCinfinity: Can yaboot use gzip compressed kernels?22:17
BenCinfinity: Better yet, can I send you a deb to see if it works on your ppc64 and ppc32?22:20
=== kentb is now known as kentb-out
RAOFF41l: As far as I'm aware, EFI-for-IA32 is blissfully unimplemented.22:46
infinityBenC: Not home in front of test hardware until August. :/22:57
infinityBenC: I think it would be safe to assume the stripped vmlinux would boot fine, gzipped kernels would need a lot more testing, and not all ppc32 machines are yaboot.22:57
BenCinfinity: Unfortunately, you can't "make vmlinux.strip" directly, and calling "make zImage" creates vmlinux.strip.gz22:58
BenCinfinity: The compressed zImage is actually an executable, that would unzip itself22:59
BenCI just need to make sure it works22:59
infinityBenC: Sure, I realize what a zImage is and I realize that, in theory, it should Just Work from pretty much any bootloader, but I make no guarantees.  One would think that if there were no problems with zImage on PPC, we'd have been using them all along, no?23:01
infinityBenC: And, at least on my 32-bit system, I fear for things like BootX and Quik sucking. :P23:01
infinityBenC: Right, so, load addresses are the issue.  Any modern yaboot should probably be fine, ancient bootloaders (like mine) might not be.23:04
infinityBenC: You could just make vmlinux and strip it with the same arguments that vmlinux.strip uses as you install it to the deb?23:04
BenCinfinity: Yes, but that requires me to mess with things in debian/rules.d/ and I was hoping to avoid that :)23:05
infinityBenC: Well, I'm willing to bet I won't be able to coax my ppc32 machine into booting a zImage, but happy to play next month when I get home.23:07
infinityBenC: I realize that machine (an ancient G3) is hardly a large or common use-case, but I see no reason to gratuitously break it either.23:07
BenCinfinity: Very true23:08
infinityBenC: From what I can tell, though, yaboot should have supported zImage since 2001, ish.23:08
infinityBenC: We can, again, confirm that when I get home, but I'd see no reason we can't switch ppc64 to zImage if that's true, since the only ppc64 bootloaders we use (yaboot or grub2) would both work.23:09
BenCinfinity: I'd be willing to bet the executable zImage will work even on your machines, but I'd have to make sure23:09
BenCinfinity: I might post these images to debian-powerpc and see if people can test it23:09
infinityBenC: Well, as pointed out in the yaboot-supporting-zImage thread I found, the fundamental issue is that the bootloader needs to detect if the image is a zImage or vmlinux, cause they need to be loaded to a different address before jumping into them.23:10
infinityBenC: http://lists.debian.org/debian-powerpc/2001/09/msg00710.html23:10
infinityBenC: So, I'm willing to bet no one ever bothered to retrofit quik and bootx to do that, cause who cares.23:10
infinityBenC: Worse, benh hasn't touched bootx since 2000 or so, so I imagine it's bitrotted to the point where my trying to fix it would make me want to shoot myself.  Or he may have even lost the source, I forget noew.23:12
infinityBenC: On the other hand, we don't support bootable media with anything but yaboot, so I could totally support zImage by default, and a bit of a hack to provide a linux-image-coff package that just has the vmlinux binary in it (and depends on the full linux-image) for schmucks like me. ;)23:14
infinityBenC: If we do some testing and discover that zImage works for everyone who isn't me, I may give you a patch to do that.23:15
infinityBenC: Cause smaller kernels for everyone who can use them sounds good.23:15
BenCinfinity: How about this…I'll upload with zImage and we'll figure out the fallout from there :)23:15
BenCWorse case, we revert to stripped vmlinux23:16
infinityBenC: Sure.  I suspect the fallout won't be all that interesting.  The people in my position (stuck with ancient bootloaders) are probably few, far between, and all running Debian.23:16
infinityBenC: Oh, wait.23:17
infinityBenC: No, please don't.23:17
infinityBenC: We'll need a migration strategy too.23:17
infinityBenC: Cause that changes the names yaboot.conf needs to look for.23:17
BenCinfinity: Well, if it "just works" what is there to migrate?23:17
BenCNo, I left it as vmlinux (I don't really care about the name matching with x86 vmlinuz type things)23:18
infinityBenC: Oh, fair enough.  If the naming doesn't change, it should Just Work, unless it doesn't. ;)23:18
infinityBenC: I'd test remotely right now, but I need that machine to not explode while I'm away. :/23:18
BenCI'll expect a full report when you return home :)23:19
BenCOr at least silence if everything works with no harm done23:19
infinityBenC: Although, qemu-system-powerpc should emulate a yaboot-using type of machine.23:19
BenCI think qemu stuff boots linux directly23:20
infinityBenC: I'm pretty sure you'll hear from me about the ppc32 kernel.  But we'll see.  Maybe I'll get lucky.23:20
BenCEven on e500 qemu stuff it doesn't even emulate uBoot23:21
infinityWell, there's an openfirmware build specifically for qemu, which leads me to believe it *can* give you an early boot experience, if you so choose.23:23
infinityAdmittedly, I've never used it, cause I have faster PPC hardware than I could possibly emulate on my x86 kit.23:24
BenCI'll toss it around in there and see what happens23:24
infinityBenC: openhackware - OpenFirmware emulator for PowerPC23:24
infinityBenC: Not installed as a dep of qemu by default, to keep the PPC cross-compiler and friends out of main, so you'll need to install it.23:25
infinityOh, hrm.  The package description claims it doesn't know forth, so maybe it just fakes it.23:26
infinityAnd yaboot is a forth OF application, isn't it?23:26
infinitySo, nevermind.23:26
infinityNot a valid test.23:26
BenCyaboot is 32-bit native23:26
infinityOh, is it?23:26
BenConly the bootX stuff is forth23:26
infinityIt was quik that was forth.23:26
BenCI know the boot logo is in forth :)23:27
infinityBootX is a MacOS application.23:27
BenCAh, right23:27
BenCyaboot is the same base code as silo23:27
BenCNeither of which is forth23:27
BenCAlthought both call into open firmware routines in order to work23:27
BenCSo maybe openhackware implements just enough for that23:28
F41lRAOF: "blissfully unimplemented", as in, not coded, or... do I need a module, something?23:28
infinityIt's probably high time I spend a Saturday just switching PPC to grub2 and ditching yaboot anyway.23:28
infinityNot that this helps my poor beige G3 with its BootX woes. :P23:28
RAOFF41l: Not coded, AFAIK23:29
BenCinfinity: I purchased an Apple //c last week from a thrift store…thinking of adding a 6502-a2c kernel some time soonish23:29
F41lhow am I supposed to run 32bit 'buntu on an EFI-only system?23:29
F41lthought linux runs on friggin' everything!23:29
infinityBenC: Hah.  Masochist. :)23:29
BenCF41l: why not run 64-bit?23:29
F41lImpossible with this system.23:29
infinityBenC: I assume it's a 32-bit-only Atom.23:30
F41lIt's IA32 Atom23:30
infinityIntel's special way of saying they hate you.23:30
BenCF41l: Oh, I suspect it's not an EFI problem as much as a correct kernel problem23:30
BenCYou said you got it to boot a kernel but it claimed it wasn't the right type of system23:30
F41lNot necessarily. 23:31
BenCAtom requires special binary, right?23:31
BenCLike, it can't just run any old x86-32-bit kernel23:31
F41lI installed ubuntu on a USB drive (as the hard drive), and am trying to change that installation to use an EFI bootloader.23:31
infinityNo, Atoms are just plain old i68623:31
infinityBut you need an EFI-happy kernel (and bootloader) if you have EFI-only firmware.  We provide none of that on i386.23:32
BenCinfinity: I thought the assembly was slightly different because of some ripped out functionality...23:32
F41lusing the boot-repair-disk, I attempted to do this, but the software gave me an error akin to something that the kernel wasn't compatible.23:32
BenCF41l: As they say in my country…SoL23:32
infinityF41l: It's not wrong, our 32-bit kernels don't support EFI (and 32-bit EFI may be incomplete upstream too, haven't looked in a while), and we also don't provide a 32-bit grub-efi.23:33
F41lSeems kind of dumb to alienate an entire swath of systems from running ubuntu.23:33
infinityF41l: This isn't Ubuntu.  Upstreams don't support 32-bit EFI either, or didn't last we checked.23:33
BenCF41l: I doubt it's an ubuntu problem23:33
F41lI can get elilo to boot, but need a kernel too23:33
infinityF41l: And to be fair, that "whole swath" is, like, three and a half computers.  All 32-bit Atoms were legacy BIOS until very, very recently.23:34
BenCF41l: and to be fair the "swath" of Atom-EFI systems is more like a sliver 23:34
* BenC ^5's infinity23:34
F41l*surprised horror* you rather I run windows 823:35
Sarvattthey even made 64bit atoms that never got 64bit blob drivers (hello cedartrail with pvr graphics blobs) so needed the 32 bit efi crap to fix that fail.23:35
infinityF41l: Anyhow, this isn't something we're being intentionally obtuse about either.  If the upstream support is there, we'll look at enabling EFI on i686 in Ubuntu too.23:35
F41lfucking clovertrail23:36
infinityF41l: Trolling us with "threats" to run the OS that came on your hardware won't really help. ;)23:36
F41lIt was a joke :P23:36
infinityIt won't convince me to port Ubuntu Touch to iPhones either.23:36
F41lIf i had the technical knowhow and programming knowledge I'd single handedly put the support in myself.23:36
F41lBut I don't.23:36
F41lI'd really like ubuntu touch to work on this device.23:37
F41lI was going to settle for using Kubuntu and KDE Active23:37
infinitySarvatt: Mentioning cedartrail around me is a punishable offense.23:37
Sarvattinfinity: hey you just messed with it on the archive side, i had to put up with it for months working with intel :)23:38
infinitySarvatt: You were paid to do it, I do 95% of my archive admin stuff off hours as a volunteer.23:39
Sarvattinfinity: ugh, I'm so sorry.23:39
infinitySarvatt: So, basically, I was volunteering to gouge my eyes out with a fork and scream obscenities into the nether.23:39

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