ubottuwilee-nilee called the ops in #ubuntu (fatliped)01:27
ubottuFloodBot1 called the ops in #ubuntu-ops-monitor (banlist filling up: 657 bans)01:43
ubottuFloodBot1 called the ops in #ubuntu-ops-monitor (banlist filling up: 657 bans)02:39
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ubottuHelp! Channel emergency! (ONLY use this trigger in emergencies) -  Tm_T, tritium, elky, Nalioth, tonyyarusso, imbrandon, PriceChild, Madpilot, Myrtti, mneptok, Pici, tsimpson, gnomefreak, jussi, topyli, or nhandler!12:46
ubottuZodiac called the ops in #ubuntu-ops ()12:46
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ikoniawhat's up ?12:46
z0dAnybody here?12:46
=== z0d is now known as Kakain
Kakainikonia: I was banned.12:46
Kakainfrom #ubuntu by k1l.12:46
ikoniafrom where ? when ? and wy ?12:46
ikoniaooh, it's you12:46
Myrttiit would be super if you wouldn't use that trigger just to ask us to listen to your plea12:47
Kakainyes, its me.12:47
ikoniaok, I think we are done12:47
elkyyour removal message makes me lol12:47
DJonesHeh, that removal made me laugh12:47
ikoniadidn't see a need to change it12:47
ikoniafor this guy12:47
PriceyThe fact its a banforward here makes it doubly ironic I guess...? :-/12:48
ikoniais it really a forward,12:48
PriceyWere they an issue in more than #ubuntu ?12:48
ikoniaprobably wise to change that to a ban now until he gets fed up12:48
ikoniaas I understand it just a persistant issue12:48
ikoniathen an issue in here, constantly12:48
ikoniaI'm sure k1l_ can fill in the details12:48
DJonesDoesn't his ip change12:49
ikoniaI didn't think so12:49
ikoniabut I don't know12:49
ikoniaI just don't see the point of any more conversation until he stops with this joining channels !ops stuff12:49
ikoniait's a pretty simple concept to grasp12:49
DJonesThe ban forward is on *!*@119.157.*$#ubuntu-ops12:50
DJonesIp was changing so must have been widened12:50
ikoniawow, that's quite qide12:50
PriceyI think this is a bit sucky, forwarding here just to kick him again.12:50
ikoniaPricey: I didn't know it was a forward12:50
ikoniahence why I've just said lets change it to a ban12:51
DJonesFrom past experience, with bans, he just joins here anyway to 'appeal/troll/abuse'12:51
DJonesMaybe change it to a quiet, he can join, just can't speak to cause issues12:51
ikoniadon't want to ban him as if he can stop messing around and annoying people, he can go back in12:52
ikonianow the forward is removed he may stop it12:52
PriceyI don't see removing him from here like that is going to move us to that goal.12:52
ikoniaPricey: what do you suggest ?12:52
Priceyikonia: Could it have hurt to give him a chance to talk here?12:54
ikoniaPricey: he's had many chances, and just constantly joins doing "!ops" k1l_ is a dick head type things12:54
DJonesPricey: He hasn't been interested so far in discussing the ban, all I've ever seen him do (multiple times) is give abuse in here12:54
ikoniahe's been asked to stop and we'll resolve it12:54
ikoniaas this is the 10th time of it - I do'nt see a point of letting it continue12:54
ikoniaso until he can grasp the "join and talk to people" it seems pointless to keep the circle going12:54
ikoniafully agree it shouldn't be a ban forwad - so I've updated that12:55
ikoniaas he shouldn't be forwarded to here to just be removed12:55
PriceyI didn't mean to say earlier that it shouldn't be a banforward.12:55
ikoniaPricey: no, I don't think it should though12:55
ikoniaas it's just forwad him to here to do his little dance and get kicked12:55
ikoniawhich is tedious for everyone12:55
ikoniaif he grasps the simple fact of "join this channel, and talk to people without abuse and the ops trigger" it can move forward12:56
DJonesPricey: Looking at k1l's notes, it was set as a forward when the range was extended in case any other users connected from the same range so it could reviewed, rather than everybody in the range being banned and possibly not realising what was happening or how to ask for help12:57
ikoniahe's had the ban removed once,12:57
ikoniaand re-joined ubuntu being a pain12:57
ikoniaI think that's why he got rebanned12:58
DJonesikonia: I looked at the bantracker, there must be about 20 bans that have been set over the last week or so12:58
ikoniayes, he knows what he's doing12:58
ikoniathat's why I do'nt see any point in any more discussion until he at least stops with this !ops things as he's been asked12:58
ikoniabut I do agree with Pricey it' not fair to bring him in to keep kicking him out12:58
PriceyDJones: Good point. I hadn't considered that intention for some reason.12:58
DJonesI used a similar ban for the myvvz.com (or something similar) troll & that was removed when it was found it affected another user, thankfully the troll on that hasn't come back anyway13:00
Myrttiafaik that was at one point the recommended way of doing it13:00
MyrttiI've recommended it myself13:00
PriceyI'm surprised he didn't rejoin.13:02
ikoniaPricey: he knows the drill13:03
DJonesOut of interest, is there a way to see when a banned user tries to join a channel, or does that info just get lost/only available to freenode staff13:04
LjLbut forwards are an effective way13:04
DJonesThought that would be the answer13:04
LjLmind, you can avoid following forwards if you so decide, so it's not a perfect way at all13:05
PriceyDJones: Do you use irssi?13:07
PriceyDJones: http://nhandler.wordpress.com/2011/06/06/irssi-bansearch-pl-script/ might be interesting if you don't use it already?13:07
DJonesI'll have a look at it, thanks13:07
ikoniaPricey: thank you !13:07
DJonesPricey: Has the link for that changed? I get an error bzr: ERROR: Not a branch: "bzr+ssh://bazaar.launchpad.net/~nhandler/+junk/bansearch/"13:30
PriceyDJones: No idea sorry I didn't check. There are a few other copies around if you search for 'bansearch.pl'13:30
DJonesok, cheers, will find it13:31
DJonesFound it, and after all that, I found it was already installed13:35
FundyChristianman shall not live by bread alone but by everword that comes out of the mouth of God15:13
FundyChristian!ops | FEAR GOD15:13
ubottuFEAR GOD: Help! Channel emergency! (ONLY use this trigger in emergencies) -  Tm_T, tritium, elky, Nalioth, tonyyarusso, imbrandon, PriceChild, Madpilot, Myrtti, mneptok, Pici, tsimpson, gnomefreak, jussi, topyli, or nhandler!15:13
ubottuFundyChristian called the ops in #ubuntu-ops (FEAR GOD)15:13
FundyChristianhe will kill you and send you to hell15:13
Myrttioh come on.15:13
genii@comment 56399 ThePreacher/FearTheLord et al again under a different name, religious spam15:17
ubottuComment added.15:17
ubottuFundyChristian called the ops in #ubuntu (Attention everyone! if you dont REPENT GOD WILL KILL YOU and SEND YOU TO HELL!)15:17
ubottuFundyChristian called the ops in #kubuntu (Attention everyone! if you dont REPENT GOD WILL KILL YOU and SEND YOU TO HELL!)15:18
ubottuFundyChristian called the ops in #ubuntu-irc (Attention everyone! if you dont REPENT GOD WILL KILL YOU and SEND YOU TO HELL!)15:21
ubottuFundyChristian called the ops in #ubuntu+1 (Attention everyone! if you dont REPENT GOD WILL KILL YOU and SEND YOU TO HELL!)15:21
PriceyI'll take a look.15:21
PiciPricey: thanks15:21
DJonesDidn't somebody say that it was HFSPlus a couple of weeks ago15:23
geniiDJones: I searched backscroll and found Myrtti referring to it. I'm not sure if it's anything conclusive however. http://paste.ubuntu.com/5904491/15:32
DJonesI got this via pm : 16:23 <FundyChri> yes i am HFS+ but i am all religious now because God will kill you if you dont obey him15:36
LjL[15:33:28] --> ljl_ has joined this channel (~ljl@ <-- NOT me15:36
DJonesPlus comcast ma was there ISP15:36
k1l_LjL: well, with a chinese ip its not that uncommon to have that initials :)15:38
Picifyi, I registered #ubuntu-edge and forwarded it to #ubuntu-touch for now.15:44
LjLwhy didn't you give it to the poor guy?!15:45
LjLyou're terrible15:45
bazhangthat's been said, yes15:45
PiciLjL: Oh, hes still opped in there since he was the first person to join, but mlock is set now so theres no much he can do in there alone.15:45
ubottuFloodBot1 called the ops in #ubuntu-ops-monitor (banlist filling up: 656 bans)16:08
knomeMyrtti, keijo_ :<<17:43
MyrttiI thought he finally left17:44
* genii ponders the +j -j18:12
Pici13:57:10 <FloodBot3> WARNING: ChanServ is not replying, removing limit18:13
bazhanghe's back with more18:14
DJonesI'm watching18:14
DJonesConsidering they were given that answer a few minutes earlier...18:15
bazhang<arunpyasi> hello, how to create bootable mac OS X usb in my ubuntu??18:38
* Pici shrugs18:39
bazhangis that even possible? or supported?18:39
geniiNo idea.18:39
bazhangubottu, hackintosh18:39
bazhangthought hackintosh was offtopic on freenode18:39
jbroomeunetbootin would probably do it19:03
jbroomeusb key would need to be formated hfs though19:03
LjL"offtopic on freenode", eh19:05
bazhangthats what nalioth told me, yes19:05
LjLit has to be about as offtopic as watching DVDs under Linux is19:07
bazhangpointless debates for $400, Alex19:07
IdleOneWhat is hackintosh and DVDs on linux?19:08
bazhangone is the use of OS X on non mac hw, the other is a | dream19:09
Picinow now, he said DVDs, not bluray.19:09
IdleOneI was trying to answer the $400 clue19:09
bazhangyou'd need AMIGA OS for that19:09
IdleOneAmiga is awesome OS19:10
IdleOneall the greatest hackers use it19:10
bazhangdoes it even still exist?19:10
IdleOneLjL: ^19:11
bazhangI thought it went away about 20 yrs ago19:11
bazhangubottu, random amiga hurd19:12
ubottubazhang: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)19:12
bazhangoh yeah!19:12
LjLbazhang: there are at least three actively developed OS's based on AmigaOS - AmigaOS, MorphOS and AROS19:14
DJones th0r> LucidDreamZzZ, and I have been workign with linux since the early 80's....so I know better <--- Wasn't the Linux kernel only released in 199119:32
DJonesI wonder which one has the bigger dad, that'll be the next claim19:33
bazhangone of them will be outside of the channel19:33
PiciWhats going on with LucidDreamZzZ?20:12
IdleOnebeats me but I thought I had banned them20:12
k1li know he  got kicked (at least by me)20:13
IdleOnemaybe it was just a kick I gave them20:14
k1l3 kicks since jul 17th in bantracker.20:14
k1l(and not by me, hmm)20:14
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funkyHatbah! sorry everyone20:22
IdleOneJust don't make me have to ban you in #ubuntu20:23
Unit193The funky clones are gone. (better than funky clowns...)20:23
IdleOneDoes it matter if swap is at beginning or end of disk?20:59
IdleOnethank you21:00
IdleOneLucidDreamZzZ seems to be unhelpful and random21:00
Piciseems that way. I'm heading out, so if you want to deal with him, go ahead.21:01
IdleOnegoing to see what else happens, but he is on his way out soon.21:02
funkyHatSome people like putting swap at the end of the disk, it's supposedly faster (angular velocity and all that)21:04
funkyHatI think it's so much slower than RAM though that you won't notice a difference21:05
IdleOneI've always put it at the end.21:05
k1lits a difference of very very very very very slow and very very veryvery very very slow. so that doesnt count on todays devices with that cheap ram21:06
LjLfunkyHat, IdleOne: afaik, with most drives at least, the trick is to put it at the logical *beginning*, because that's mapped to the physical end21:07
funkyHatLjL: well that is tricksy!21:08
IdleOneLjL: this user has a 10GB partition he believed to be swap but also has an 8GB partition that is swap. he wants the 10GB to be swap and it happens to be at the beginning of the disk. I asked if it mattered because I wanted to make sure I was telling him the right thing to do about it.21:09
k1lyou can mix partitions as you want. grub will sort that for you21:10
LjLIdleOne: it really isn't going to matter a big deal either way21:11
LjLit's more of a paranoid optimization thing21:11
IdleOneLucidDreamZzZ was just giving extra unneeded informatuion to confuse the user being helped21:12
LucidDreamZzZIdleOne, so again i dont understand why you would tell a user to put his 8gb swap at begining of disk...  modern bios do not care i suppose but it isnt really best practice so i suggested user start over21:28
LjLwhy isn't it best practice? and which BIOS's did care?21:29
k1lthe partition setup doesnt matter at all. grub will select the right one21:29
LucidDreamZzZso then you insult me and say im 'being purposefully coinfusing'21:30
IdleOneyou were, by continuing to mention things that had no inpact on what he was trying to achieve21:30
LucidDreamZzZwhy do i have to explain this to you21:31
LucidDreamZzZthis is (i htought) common knowledge21:31
IdleOnebut I didn't ban you because you think you know so much more than others do. I banned you because you were being unhelpful and disruptive.21:31
LucidDreamZzZanyway no reason to be insulting because you didn't understand21:31
LucidDreamZzZand for me calling you a funny noob im sorry21:32
IdleOneno worries.21:32
IdleOne!guidelines | Please read them.21:32
ubottuPlease read them.: The guidelines for using the Ubuntu channels can be found here: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/Guidelines21:32
LjLLucidDreamZzZ: i'm pretty sure no BIOS made... at any time when Ubuntu was relevant had that issue.21:32
IdleOneban stays for now.21:32
k1lLucidDreamZzZ: are you kidding me? you think that 1980s technic is still uptodate?21:32
LucidDreamZzZprobably for the best IdleOne :)21:33
IdleOneI'm glad you agree. Have a nice day.21:33
LucidDreamZzZi still think swap at the start of disk isnt best practice21:36
LucidDreamZzZand he had to redo everything anyway sayin21:36
LjLwhatever "best practice" means21:36
LucidDreamZzZyou should put it at end since it is on outside sectors no?21:37
k1lLucidDreamZzZ: that doesnt make a difference you will ever notice21:38
LjLand why would you want to put it on outside sectors? i'd rather swap be fast.21:38
LucidDreamZzZand again convention is / or /boot at the begining21:38
LjLi don't know whose convention you're talking about.21:38
k1lthat myths come from the days when hdds were very slow and ram was super expensive21:38
LjLmaybe it's your personal convention but that's not relevant to anybody else.21:38
LucidDreamZzZthe speed is faster on outer sectors (wow)21:39
k1lLucidDreamZzZ: and again: it doesnt matter because grub will boot anything anywhere21:39
k1lLucidDreamZzZ: it doesnt matter today21:39
k1lLucidDreamZzZ: the 1980 called, the want their technics back21:39
LucidDreamZzZjust make / and a swap thats all people say i think you should folow established convention21:39
k1leven swap is not needed today if you dont want suspend21:40
k1lconventions change, get used to it21:40
LjLk1l: that's not really true21:40
LjLwell maybe it's not *needed* (it never really was), but it can be beneficial21:41
LucidDreamZzZsee i say anything and people just want to flex21:41
LucidDreamZzZim not some mavric21:41
LucidDreamZzZjust following convention21:41
LjLyou seem to be the one "flexing" by saying we should follow some "convention" that you didn't 1) show is convention 2) show is relevant or useful today for any reason21:41
k1lwith the difference in speed between ddr2 and ddr3 and a hdd you dont want to use swap.21:41
LucidDreamZzZthe guy wanted to use hibernation so someone suggested 9gb for 8gb ram21:43
LucidDreamZzZnobody said anything21:43
LjLk1l: so let's say... i have 16GB of RAM. i start doing some very I/O intensive work. i have 8GB of RAM free. that's a lot, but i could have more. my computer is on all the time, so i have a few applications that are open but that i haven't used for many hours. the OS wants to swap those processes our to give me more than 8GB for disk caching, since what i'm doing *now* is I/O stuff21:43
LjLbut it can't because you have no swap. yay?21:43
LucidDreamZzZi told him to use just the amount of ram he had but oters confused issue and he made it bigger21:44
LucidDreamZzZi try to help and others confuse too21:44
LjLLucidDreamZzZ: so they made them add one *entire* gigabyte as leeway? tragic.21:44
LucidDreamZzZno not really if he has out of control app great it helps21:45
LucidDreamZzZbut totally dumb21:45
LucidDreamZzZespecially on ssd which i dnk if he was using21:45
LucidDreamZzZleeway for hibernation??21:46
LjLsure, why not? it makes no less sense to have 9 gigs than to have 8. you realize, of course, that unless your RAM is 100% full, you don't need as much swap as you have ram to hibernate in the first place.21:46
LucidDreamZzZall he cared about was hibernation21:47
k1lLjL: the problem on that swapping thing is, it comes from days where ram was nearly as slow as hdd and realy realy expensive21:48
LucidDreamZzZso in one case you wil say simple is better, then in another case well this is less simple but gives leeway...  it just suits your mood it seems21:48
LjLk1l: it may come from that but that doesn't make it not useful today21:48
LjLLucidDreamZzZ: i don't see how having a 9gb partition is harder than having an 8gb partition in any way21:49
k1lLjL: there are usecases where swapping is fine. but they are rare and the ones who need it know that.21:49
k1lthe average user is fine without ram21:49
LucidDreamZzZi like bench racing and i always admit a lack of knowledge or if i am mistaken21:49
LjLLucidDreamZzZ, k1l: anyway let's move the discussion to #ubuntu-offtopic if we feel like it, i think the ban-related discussion is done21:49
LucidDreamZzZright then thanks folks i guess its off to work, ciao21:50

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