[12:46] <Zodiac> !ops
[12:46] <ikonia> what's up ?
[12:46] <z0d> Anybody here?
[12:46] <Kakain> ikonia: I was banned.
[12:46] <Kakain> from #ubuntu by k1l.
[12:46] <ikonia> from where ? when ? and wy ?
[12:46] <ikonia> ooh, it's you
[12:47] <Myrtti> it would be super if you wouldn't use that trigger just to ask us to listen to your plea
[12:47] <Kakain> yes, its me.
[12:47] <ikonia> ok, I think we are done
[12:47] <elky> your removal message makes me lol
[12:47] <DJones> Heh, that removal made me laugh
[12:47] <ikonia> didn't see a need to change it
[12:47] <ikonia> for this guy
[12:48] <elky> yeah
[12:48] <Pricey> The fact its a banforward here makes it doubly ironic I guess...? :-/
[12:48] <ikonia> is it really a forward,
[12:48] <ikonia> superb
[12:48] <Pricey> Were they an issue in more than #ubuntu ?
[12:48] <ikonia> probably wise to change that to a ban now until he gets fed up
[12:48] <ikonia> as I understand it just a persistant issue
[12:48] <ikonia> then an issue in here, constantly
[12:48] <ikonia> I'm sure k1l_ can fill in the details
[12:49] <DJones> Doesn't his ip change
[12:49] <ikonia> I didn't think so
[12:49] <ikonia> but I don't know
[12:49] <ikonia> I just don't see the point of any more conversation until he stops with this joining channels !ops stuff
[12:49] <ikonia> it's a pretty simple concept to grasp
[12:50] <DJones> The ban forward is on *!*@119.157.*$#ubuntu-ops
[12:50] <DJones> Ip was changing so must have been widened
[12:50] <ikonia> wow, that's quite qide
[12:50] <Pricey> I think this is a bit sucky, forwarding here just to kick him again.
[12:50] <ikonia> Pricey: I didn't know it was a forward
[12:51] <ikonia> hence why I've just said lets change it to a ban
[12:51] <ikonia> done
[12:51] <DJones> From past experience, with bans, he just joins here anyway to 'appeal/troll/abuse'
[12:51] <DJones> Maybe change it to a quiet, he can join, just can't speak to cause issues
[12:52] <ikonia> don't want to ban him as if he can stop messing around and annoying people, he can go back in
[12:52] <ikonia> now the forward is removed he may stop it
[12:52] <Pricey> I don't see removing him from here like that is going to move us to that goal.
[12:52] <ikonia> Pricey: what do you suggest ?
[12:54] <Pricey> ikonia: Could it have hurt to give him a chance to talk here?
[12:54] <ikonia> Pricey: he's had many chances, and just constantly joins doing "!ops" k1l_ is a dick head type things
[12:54] <DJones> Pricey: He hasn't been interested so far in discussing the ban, all I've ever seen him do (multiple times) is give abuse in here
[12:54] <ikonia> he's been asked to stop and we'll resolve it
[12:54] <ikonia> as this is the 10th time of it - I do'nt see a point of letting it continue
[12:54] <ikonia> so until he can grasp the "join and talk to people" it seems pointless to keep the circle going
[12:55] <ikonia> fully agree it shouldn't be a ban forwad - so I've updated that
[12:55] <ikonia> as he shouldn't be forwarded to here to just be removed
[12:55] <Pricey> I didn't mean to say earlier that it shouldn't be a banforward.
[12:55] <ikonia> Pricey: no, I don't think it should though
[12:55] <Pricey> Understood.
[12:55] <ikonia> as it's just forwad him to here to do his little dance and get kicked
[12:55] <ikonia> which is tedious for everyone
[12:56] <ikonia> if he grasps the simple fact of "join this channel, and talk to people without abuse and the ops trigger" it can move forward
[12:57] <DJones> Pricey: Looking at k1l's notes, it was set as a forward when the range was extended in case any other users connected from the same range so it could reviewed, rather than everybody in the range being banned and possibly not realising what was happening or how to ask for help
[12:57] <ikonia> he's had the ban removed once,
[12:57] <ikonia> and re-joined ubuntu being a pain
[12:58] <ikonia> I think that's why he got rebanned
[12:58] <DJones> ikonia: I looked at the bantracker, there must be about 20 bans that have been set over the last week or so
[12:58] <ikonia> yes, he knows what he's doing
[12:58] <ikonia> that's why I do'nt see any point in any more discussion until he at least stops with this !ops things as he's been asked
[12:58] <ikonia> but I do agree with Pricey it' not fair to bring him in to keep kicking him out
[12:58] <Pricey> DJones: Good point. I hadn't considered that intention for some reason.
[13:00] <DJones> I used a similar ban for the myvvz.com (or something similar) troll & that was removed when it was found it affected another user, thankfully the troll on that hasn't come back anyway
[13:00] <Myrtti> afaik that was at one point the recommended way of doing it
[13:00] <Myrtti> I've recommended it myself
[13:02] <Pricey> I'm surprised he didn't rejoin.
[13:03] <ikonia> Pricey: he knows the drill
[13:04] <DJones> Out of interest, is there a way to see when a banned user tries to join a channel, or does that info just get lost/only available to freenode staff
[13:04] <LjL> latter
[13:04] <LjL> but forwards are an effective way
[13:04] <DJones> Thought that would be the answer
[13:05] <LjL> mind, you can avoid following forwards if you so decide, so it's not a perfect way at all
[13:07] <Pricey> DJones: Do you use irssi?
[13:07] <DJones> Yes
[13:07] <Pricey> DJones: http://nhandler.wordpress.com/2011/06/06/irssi-bansearch-pl-script/ might be interesting if you don't use it already?
[13:07] <DJones> I'll have a look at it, thanks
[13:07] <ikonia> Pricey: thank you !
[13:30] <DJones> Pricey: Has the link for that changed? I get an error bzr: ERROR: Not a branch: "bzr+ssh://bazaar.launchpad.net/~nhandler/+junk/bansearch/"
[13:30] <Pricey> DJones: No idea sorry I didn't check. There are a few other copies around if you search for 'bansearch.pl'
[13:31] <DJones> ok, cheers, will find it
[13:35] <DJones> Found it, and after all that, I found it was already installed
[13:52] <Corey> Smoove!
[15:13] <FundyChristian> man shall not live by bread alone but by everword that comes out of the mouth of God
[15:13] <FundyChristian> !ops | FEAR GOD
[15:13] <FundyChristian> he will kill you and send you to hell
[15:13] <Myrtti> oh come on.
[15:17] <genii> @comment 56399 ThePreacher/FearTheLord et al again under a different name, religious spam
[15:21] <Pricey> I'll take a look.
[15:21] <Pici> Pricey: thanks
[15:23] <DJones> Didn't somebody say that it was HFSPlus a couple of weeks ago
[15:24] <genii> Persistent.
[15:32] <genii> DJones: I searched backscroll and found Myrtti referring to it. I'm not sure if it's anything conclusive however. http://paste.ubuntu.com/5904491/
[15:36] <DJones> I got this via pm : 16:23 <FundyChri> yes i am HFS+ but i am all religious now because God will kill you if you dont obey him
[15:36] <LjL> [15:33:28] --> ljl_ has joined this channel (~ljl@113.13.60.37). <-- NOT me
[15:36] <DJones> Plus comcast ma was there ISP
[15:38] <k1l_> LjL: well, with a chinese ip its not that uncommon to have that initials :)
[15:39] <LjL> yes
[15:44] <Pici> fyi, I registered #ubuntu-edge and forwarded it to #ubuntu-touch for now.
[15:45] <bazhang> edgy
[15:45] <LjL> why didn't you give it to the poor guy?!
[15:45] <LjL> you're terrible
[15:45] <bazhang> that's been said, yes
[15:45] <Pici> LjL: Oh, hes still opped in there since he was the first person to join, but mlock is set now so theres no much he can do in there alone.
[17:43] <knome> Myrtti, keijo_ :<<
[17:44] <Myrtti> I thought he finally left
[18:12]  * genii ponders the +j -j
[18:13] <Pici> 13:57:10 <FloodBot3> WARNING: ChanServ is not replying, removing limit
[18:14] <bazhang> he's back with more
[18:14] <Pici> he?
[18:14] <DJones> I'm watching
[18:14] <bazhang> luciddreamzzzzz
[18:14] <Pici> o
[18:15] <DJones> Considering they were given that answer a few minutes earlier...
 hello, how to create bootable mac OS X usb in my ubuntu??
[18:39]  * Pici shrugs
[18:39] <bazhang> is that even possible? or supported?
[18:39] <genii> No idea.
[18:39] <bazhang> ubottu, hackintosh
[18:39] <bazhang> thought hackintosh was offtopic on freenode
[19:03] <jbroome> unetbootin would probably do it
[19:03] <jbroome> usb key would need to be formated hfs though
[19:05] <LjL> "offtopic on freenode", eh
[19:05] <bazhang> thats what nalioth told me, yes
[19:07] <LjL> it has to be about as offtopic as watching DVDs under Linux is
[19:07] <bazhang> pointless debates for $400, Alex
[19:08] <IdleOne> What is hackintosh and DVDs on linux?
[19:09] <bazhang> one is the use of OS X on non mac hw, the other is a | dream
[19:09] <IdleOne> lol
[19:09] <Pici> now now, he said DVDs, not bluray.
[19:09] <IdleOne> I was trying to answer the $400 clue
[19:09] <bazhang> you'd need AMIGA OS for that
[19:10] <IdleOne> Amiga is awesome OS
[19:10] <IdleOne> all the greatest hackers use it
[19:10] <bazhang> does it even still exist?
[19:11] <IdleOne> LjL: ^
[19:11] <bazhang> I thought it went away about 20 yrs ago
[19:12] <bazhang> ubottu, random amiga hurd
[19:12] <bazhang> oh yeah!
[19:14] <LjL> bazhang: there are at least three actively developed OS's based on AmigaOS - AmigaOS, MorphOS and AROS
[19:32] <DJones>  th0r> LucidDreamZzZ, and I have been workign with linux since the early 80's....so I know better <--- Wasn't the Linux kernel only released in 1991
[19:32] <bazhang> yes
[19:33] <DJones> I wonder which one has the bigger dad, that'll be the next claim
[19:33] <bazhang> one of them will be outside of the channel
[20:12] <Pici> Whats going on with LucidDreamZzZ?
[20:12] <IdleOne> beats me but I thought I had banned them
[20:13] <k1l> i know he  got kicked (at least by me)
[20:14] <IdleOne> maybe it was just a kick I gave them
[20:14] <k1l> 3 kicks since jul 17th in bantracker.
[20:14] <k1l> (and not by me, hmm)
[20:22] <funkyHat> bah! sorry everyone
[20:23] <IdleOne> Just don't make me have to ban you in #ubuntu
[20:23] <Unit193> The funky clones are gone. (better than funky clowns...)
[20:59] <IdleOne> Does it matter if swap is at beginning or end of disk?
[20:59] <k1l> nope
[21:00] <IdleOne> k
[21:00] <IdleOne> thank you
[21:00] <IdleOne> LucidDreamZzZ seems to be unhelpful and random
[21:01] <Pici> seems that way. I'm heading out, so if you want to deal with him, go ahead.
[21:02] <IdleOne> going to see what else happens, but he is on his way out soon.
[21:04] <funkyHat> Some people like putting swap at the end of the disk, it's supposedly faster (angular velocity and all that)
[21:05] <funkyHat> I think it's so much slower than RAM though that you won't notice a difference
[21:05] <IdleOne> I've always put it at the end.
[21:06] <k1l> its a difference of very very very very very slow and very very veryvery very very slow. so that doesnt count on todays devices with that cheap ram
[21:07] <LjL> funkyHat, IdleOne: afaik, with most drives at least, the trick is to put it at the logical *beginning*, because that's mapped to the physical end
[21:08] <funkyHat> LjL: well that is tricksy!
[21:09] <IdleOne> LjL: this user has a 10GB partition he believed to be swap but also has an 8GB partition that is swap. he wants the 10GB to be swap and it happens to be at the beginning of the disk. I asked if it mattered because I wanted to make sure I was telling him the right thing to do about it.
[21:10] <k1l> you can mix partitions as you want. grub will sort that for you
[21:11] <LjL> IdleOne: it really isn't going to matter a big deal either way
[21:11] <LjL> it's more of a paranoid optimization thing
[21:12] <IdleOne> LucidDreamZzZ was just giving extra unneeded informatuion to confuse the user being helped
[21:12] <IdleOne> -u
[21:28] <LucidDreamZzZ> IdleOne, so again i dont understand why you would tell a user to put his 8gb swap at begining of disk...  modern bios do not care i suppose but it isnt really best practice so i suggested user start over
[21:29] <LjL> why isn't it best practice? and which BIOS's did care?
[21:29] <k1l> the partition setup doesnt matter at all. grub will select the right one
[21:30] <LucidDreamZzZ> so then you insult me and say im 'being purposefully coinfusing'
[21:30] <IdleOne> you were, by continuing to mention things that had no inpact on what he was trying to achieve
[21:31] <LucidDreamZzZ> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cylinder_1024
[21:31] <LucidDreamZzZ> why do i have to explain this to you
[21:31] <LucidDreamZzZ> this is (i htought) common knowledge
[21:31] <IdleOne> but I didn't ban you because you think you know so much more than others do. I banned you because you were being unhelpful and disruptive.
[21:31] <LucidDreamZzZ> anyway no reason to be insulting because you didn't understand
[21:32] <LucidDreamZzZ> and for me calling you a funny noob im sorry
[21:32] <LucidDreamZzZ> ok
[21:32] <IdleOne> no worries.
[21:32] <IdleOne> !guidelines | Please read them.
[21:32] <LjL> LucidDreamZzZ: i'm pretty sure no BIOS made... at any time when Ubuntu was relevant had that issue.
[21:32] <IdleOne> ban stays for now.
[21:32] <k1l> LucidDreamZzZ: are you kidding me? you think that 1980s technic is still uptodate?
[21:33] <LucidDreamZzZ> probably for the best IdleOne :)
[21:33] <IdleOne> I'm glad you agree. Have a nice day.
[21:36] <LucidDreamZzZ> i still think swap at the start of disk isnt best practice
[21:36] <LucidDreamZzZ> and he had to redo everything anyway sayin
[21:36] <LjL> whatever "best practice" means
[21:37] <LucidDreamZzZ> you should put it at end since it is on outside sectors no?
[21:38] <k1l> LucidDreamZzZ: that doesnt make a difference you will ever notice
[21:38] <LjL> and why would you want to put it on outside sectors? i'd rather swap be fast.
[21:38] <LucidDreamZzZ> and again convention is / or /boot at the begining
[21:38] <LjL> i don't know whose convention you're talking about.
[21:38] <k1l> that myths come from the days when hdds were very slow and ram was super expensive
[21:38] <LjL> maybe it's your personal convention but that's not relevant to anybody else.
[21:38] <LucidDreamZzZ> ^
[21:39] <LucidDreamZzZ> the speed is faster on outer sectors (wow)
[21:39] <k1l> LucidDreamZzZ: and again: it doesnt matter because grub will boot anything anywhere
[21:39] <k1l> LucidDreamZzZ: it doesnt matter today
[21:39] <LucidDreamZzZ> ikr
[21:39] <k1l> LucidDreamZzZ: the 1980 called, the want their technics back
[21:39] <LucidDreamZzZ> just make / and a swap thats all people say i think you should folow established convention
[21:40] <LucidDreamZzZ> hah
[21:40] <LucidDreamZzZ> a
[21:40] <k1l> even swap is not needed today if you dont want suspend
[21:40] <k1l> conventions change, get used to it
[21:40] <LjL> k1l: that's not really true
[21:41] <LjL> well maybe it's not *needed* (it never really was), but it can be beneficial
[21:41] <LucidDreamZzZ> see i say anything and people just want to flex
[21:41] <LucidDreamZzZ> im not some mavric
[21:41] <LucidDreamZzZ> just following convention
[21:41] <LjL> you seem to be the one "flexing" by saying we should follow some "convention" that you didn't 1) show is convention 2) show is relevant or useful today for any reason
[21:41] <k1l> with the difference in speed between ddr2 and ddr3 and a hdd you dont want to use swap.
[21:43] <LucidDreamZzZ> the guy wanted to use hibernation so someone suggested 9gb for 8gb ram
[21:43] <LucidDreamZzZ> nobody said anything
[21:43] <LjL> k1l: so let's say... i have 16GB of RAM. i start doing some very I/O intensive work. i have 8GB of RAM free. that's a lot, but i could have more. my computer is on all the time, so i have a few applications that are open but that i haven't used for many hours. the OS wants to swap those processes our to give me more than 8GB for disk caching, since what i'm doing *now* is I/O stuff
[21:43] <LjL> but it can't because you have no swap. yay?
[21:44] <LucidDreamZzZ> i told him to use just the amount of ram he had but oters confused issue and he made it bigger
[21:44] <LucidDreamZzZ> i try to help and others confuse too
[21:44] <LucidDreamZzZ> meh
[21:44] <LjL> LucidDreamZzZ: so they made them add one *entire* gigabyte as leeway? tragic.
[21:45] <LucidDreamZzZ> no not really if he has out of control app great it helps
[21:45] <LucidDreamZzZ> but totally dumb
[21:45] <LucidDreamZzZ> especially on ssd which i dnk if he was using
[21:46] <LucidDreamZzZ> leeway for hibernation??
[21:46] <LjL> sure, why not? it makes no less sense to have 9 gigs than to have 8. you realize, of course, that unless your RAM is 100% full, you don't need as much swap as you have ram to hibernate in the first place.
[21:47] <LucidDreamZzZ> right
[21:47] <LucidDreamZzZ> all he cared about was hibernation
[21:48] <k1l> LjL: the problem on that swapping thing is, it comes from days where ram was nearly as slow as hdd and realy realy expensive
[21:48] <LucidDreamZzZ> so in one case you wil say simple is better, then in another case well this is less simple but gives leeway...  it just suits your mood it seems
[21:48] <LjL> k1l: it may come from that but that doesn't make it not useful today
[21:49] <LjL> LucidDreamZzZ: i don't see how having a 9gb partition is harder than having an 8gb partition in any way
[21:49] <k1l> LjL: there are usecases where swapping is fine. but they are rare and the ones who need it know that.
[21:49] <k1l> the average user is fine without ram
[21:49] <LucidDreamZzZ> i like bench racing and i always admit a lack of knowledge or if i am mistaken
[21:49] <LjL> LucidDreamZzZ, k1l: anyway let's move the discussion to #ubuntu-offtopic if we feel like it, i think the ban-related discussion is done
[21:49] <LucidDreamZzZ> yep
[21:50] <LucidDreamZzZ> right then thanks folks i guess its off to work, ciao