pittiGood morning04:47
jibelgood morning07:29
DanChapmanGood Morning all :-)07:54
=== Ursinha-afk is now known as Ursinha
pittiasac: wrt. fixing the mediaplayer bugs> I noticed that the mediaplayer doesn't currently seem to work at all on mako; that might just be what the ap test fails on?09:03
asacpitti: interesting09:05
asacpitti: can you reply to the mail i sent?09:06
asacfor ue-leads09:06
pittiasac: sure09:06
xeranas__hello, seems ubuntu-docviewer-app autopilot tests wont work.. I wonder if it something todo with my envoroment :/09:11
asacpitti: so stated the question: what should we do with the proposed dashboard in the context of our "stricly green" mission we run elsewhere?10:22
asacgema said you might have better idea how to approach this10:22
pittiasac: TBH I don't understand the question10:29
asacpitti: https://jenkins.qa.ubuntu.com/view/Saucy/view/AutoPkgTest/10:31
asacwe have lots of reds there10:31
pittiasac: that's right; we need package uploaders to actually pay attention to failures there10:31
asacpitti: should we go serious about it if we see that happen? or just keep it FYI?10:32
pittiplus, we earn quite a number of failures from Debian which we need to keep up with fixing10:32
pittiI'm doing quite a lot, but doing this single-handedly is too much work10:32
asacpitti: are the tests maintained by upstream that we run?10:32
asacor do we always have to fix tests first?10:32
pittiasac: most of the ones that you see there are nontrivial to fix, so it's not something you'd do on a Friday10:32
pittiasac: no, these come from debian/ubuntu10:32
asacpitti: can you give me an example of a test that is nontrivial to fix?10:33
pittiasac: if a package has failing tests, it won't move out of -proposed into saucy10:33
asacwhat about firefox?10:33
asacpitti: ok we do that?10:33
pittiasac: unless the release team overrides it10:33
asaci assume we have a whitelist?10:33
asace.g. stuff we let through anyway?10:33
pittiasac: firefox has worked for a while, but chrisccoulson stopped maintaining it AFAIK; saucy-adt-unity-firefox-extension has never been fixed to actually work as nobody bothers10:34
asacpitti: but who added a not working pkg test in first place?10:35
asacfor extension10:35
pittiasac: people who don't ensure that they actually work? ..10:35
chrisccoulsonpitti, the last time i looked, it was not even getting to the stage of running any of the firefox tests (ie, failing much earlier)10:35
asacso let me rephrase:10:35
asac1. once we had an initiative in ubuntu/canonical to write autopkg tests10:35
asac2. those are the ones that we have now10:36
asac3. unfortunately a bunch were landed brokenly10:36
pittiasac: we are still getting new ones10:36
asac4. and we didn't calibrate our resources/priorities to ensure taht we could fix the ones that broke10:36
pittithe server team recently added like 2010:36
chrisccoulsonpitti, https://jenkins.qa.ubuntu.com/job/saucy-adt-firefox/lastCompletedBuild/ARCH=amd64,label=adt/artifact/results/summary.log10:36
asac5. since then we have people adding tests, but its an optional, nice to have thing?10:36
chrisccoulsoni think i need someone like jibel to look at that really10:36
pittichrisccoulson: well, this just says that running xpcshell-tests was killed after 4 hours10:37
asace.g. a service that folks can or can not use ... and where releaase team has to process bunch of stuff that nobody cared about?10:37
asaci think i get the picture10:37
chrisccoulsonpitti, but the same tests run fine on raring :/10:37
chrisccoulsonpitti, https://jenkins.qa.ubuntu.com/job/raring-ppa-adt-mozillateam_firefox_next-firefox/ (that's identical)10:38
gemachrisccoulson: so there is some compatibility break in saucy?10:38
pittichrisccoulson: so, looks like a problem with a newer library?10:38
asacchrisccoulson: it doesnt matter that they run there10:38
asacchrisccoulson: today is today :)10:38
pittiasac: these days it's optional, yes (e. g. we don't yet require it as part of MIR)10:39
chrisccoulsongema, i guess there must be, as the 2 examples there are using the same firefox package10:39
asacchrisccoulson: the test owner needs to debug and drive it and keep it working ... folks cannot assume that QA will always maintain everything you ever did :)10:39
asacthat doesnt scale10:39
pittiasac: but it's a nice way to keep your package working and avoid new dependencies breaking it10:39
jibelgema, we don't know exactly what until someone (me?) have a look at what's happening in the testing environment10:39
pittiasac: so they are quite popular10:39
chrisccoulsonasac, the problem is, there is no firefox maintainer anymore ;)10:39
gemajibel: I know, and that doesn't quite escale10:39
asacpitti: but release team has to deal with broken shit and exceptions and manual poking etc. all the time I hear?10:39
asaclet's really try to get those sorted imo10:40
pittiasac: only if people ask them to do an override because they want to land a package even if it breaks some test10:40
asacwhat we first need is to figure who owns which tests10:40
asace.g. who was the author10:40
pittiasac: I agree, it would be nice to clean this up; we once were down to 4 failures or so10:40
asaclets do it10:40
asacand lets go for always green10:40
pittiasac: we also get a lot of broken ones from debian10:40
pittiasac: an autopkgtest fixing hackfest with 3 people (server/desktop/qa) fulltime could do nicely10:41
asacwe need to do that forever10:41
asacwe can make a priority effort to start off10:41
pittiasac: e. g. they mysql one has a single test failure, all others succeed; these should be able to get fixed, if nothing else by disabling that one test10:41
asacbut people are currently under constant fire :) so all i am doing right now is start talking and thinking10:41
asacpitti: yeah. there are stories for every failyure. I think we just need to clearly identify who owns each of those10:42
asacso we can get them fixed10:42
asacif debian owns them, lets think10:42
asacat least those that we own we can clear out10:42
pittiasac: yes, but we also need to allocate some serious time to actually work on them10:42
pittiasac: and clean up tests which nobody cares about and which have always been broken (oneconf, unity-firefox-extension, etc.)10:43
asacpitti: lets really have a list, each test gets one owner, we socialize that list and then everybody fixes one. with quality team helping folks to be productive rather than doing all the work10:43
asaci think during that process we will find apps that nobody cares about10:44
pittiasac: we need domain knowledge for a lot of the tests, but many can presumably be fixed by any (core?) dev given some time10:44
asacsome we can clean10:44
asacsome we have to ensure are cared for10:44
pittiasac: right; we had two hackfests for that, and in both we got some nice cleanup/fixes10:44
asacpitti: yeah. that doesnt really work though. its far easier just to have a clear owner who is on the hook. otherwise, its always ending up on the shoulder of a few folks that work overly hard anyway10:45
asaclike you :)10:45
pittiasac: that, too10:45
pittiasac: but given the current number we are going to need some extra time anyway to get back to a good situation10:45
pittiasac: from then on it'll be continued maintenance which should be done by the actual uploaders/teams10:45
asacpitti: is there a way we can find reasonable owners? if yo ucould help me with that, I will do some talking and see what other managers think :)10:46
asacfinding == checking who did the test .. if that was someone from qa, who is the package uploader?10:46
asacchrisccoulson: we have the policy that stuff sticks to whoever did it last10:46
asacchrisccoulson: thats not a policy, but a general attitude of ubuntu10:47
asacso in that theory you are still the firefox maintainer no matter what you signed up for :)10:47
pittiasac: we can certainly go through the list and sort them into "desktop/server/foundations/QA" buckets (QA being the fallback for broken tests from Debian, or problems with infrastructure)10:47
pittiasac: want to do that now?10:47
chrisccoulsonasac, yeah, i see how this works now, there's no escape for me ;)10:48
pittiasac: I'm going through them and bucket them10:51
asacpitti: yeah. just keep zero stuff assigned to the QA team for now10:52
asaci would like to have a bit more discussion about the debian ones10:52
asacthe ones that are essential we need to find an owner in a real engineering team i think10:52
pittiasac: ok, review done (http://paste.ubuntu.com/5910831/)11:20
pittiasac: I should perhaps send that to u-devel@?11:20
asaclet me see11:21
pittigema: ^ FYI11:21
asacpitti: in those teams, do we know who did the test/work last time (e.g. the name?)11:21
asacor if you didnt put a name you say: these should be owned by someone from their team11:21
asacbut so far tehre was no owner?11:21
pittiasac: we can check in changelogs, but for now I only bucketed it to a particular developer where it's clear11:22
pittiasac: for the regresssions that are broken by a dependency it's not immediately clear who the owner is11:22
asacpitti: ok. so you say it would be clear who would own "saucy-adt-apt-clone" for instance?11:22
pittiasac: e. g. ubuntu-release-upgrader didn't change, but update-manager did which broke the release-upgrader11:22
pittiasac: again, no; apt-clone itself didn't change, but saucy underneath changed11:23
asacsure, but whoever owns apt-clone has to be the owner11:23
asacin the sense that he has to drive it11:23
asachis app got broken11:23
pittiasac: I think these either need to be fixed at regular "test fix days", or the teams' tech lead should own them and distribute11:23
asacso he is the only sane choice if it comes to "who must care" :)11:23
asacmaybe the techlead11:23
asacor manager11:24
pittiasac: teams' TL is a good default IMHO if there is no clear individual owner11:24
asacyeah. i will get individual owners anyway ... or a pai11:24
asacbut techlead/manager should say11:24
pittiasac: I'll send the current list to u-devel@ to raise some awareness11:25
asaci cant participate there though :)11:25
asacbut didnt plan to anyway11:25
=== Ursinha is now known as Ursinha-afk
pittiasac: err, why can't you post to u-devel@?11:28
asacpitti: i got booted from everything11:29
asacbecause i didnt see the renew mail :)11:29
asaci think ubuntu-devel is restricted to devs11:29
asacanyway. this is for me more of an internal management team task anyway11:30
asacneeds some socializing that we want to green at all :)11:30
=== Ursinha-afk is now known as Ursinha
pittiasac: I can forward it to the internal ML afterwards if you want11:30
asacno its fine. let me start to raise it and then we can bring results from u-devel into that discussion11:31
asacwill do it verbosely for today :)11:31
asac(if we get to it)11:31
pittiasac: sent, with you in CC11:35
pittiasac: and fwded to ue leads11:36
knomeballoons, there's a bug in the auto-resize testcase...11:36
asacpitti: gratias11:36
pittide nada11:36
knomeballoons, it implies that the "select drive list" with the movable bar always appears, but i didn't get that since i had some free space on the drive.11:37
=== om26er is now known as om26er|afk
=== iahmad is now known as iahmad|afk
=== _salem is now known as salem_
knomeballoons, also, i really think live session and persistence should be two different tests12:52
DanChapmanxnox, hey :-) SO i have re-written the autopilot tests, and they now exit if an error dialog of some kind appears. I also changed how it handles the wait between each page loading and the test should no longer get stuck there. in general they are all running really well on jibel's test runner.13:02
=== iahmad|afk is now known as iahmad
knomepeople testing alpha 2 images, wondering if bug 1185396 is xubuntu-specific or if it affects everybody13:05
ubot5bug 1185396 in gnome-system-tools (Ubuntu) "users-admin crashed with SIGSEGV in gst_user_profiles_get_for_user()" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/118539613:05
slickymasterhello all13:59
OE4SKWHello, how are u?14:00
OE4SKWhow to join and get started testing?14:01
DanChapmanOE4SKW, i would suggest starting here https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam14:02
DanChapmanOE4SKW, all the info on how you can help testing can be accessed from there14:03
OE4SKWok, thank u very much fer info14:03
jodhpitti: the dep8 failure for abi-compliance-checker is documented on debian bug 717806. Problem seems to be gcc 4.8. This used to work in Debian sid but never worked in Ubuntu as we were already using gcc4.8.14:34
ubot5Debian bug 717806 in abi-compliance-checker "abi-compliance-checker: self-check fails with error "can't compile header(s)"" [Important,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/71780614:34
pittijodh: ah, thanks for the info14:34
jodhpitti: I'm keen we get this fixed as we're having to manual disable abi-c-c from being called in the upstart build atm.14:35
jodhpitti: btw - do you have a feel yet for how long it might take to implement the nested kvm feature in autopkgtest?14:37
pittijodh: I started on making the master VM available, but that triggered a mysterious hang in the script14:37
jodhpitti: the lxc dep8 test failure looks like it might be an stderr output issue as the test *does* pass.14:37
pittijodh: I need to debug this more, I planned this for tomorrow afternoon14:38
jodhpitti: does stderr output get dumped to $ADTRESULTSDIR by default?14:38
pittijodh: yes, if a test outputs stderr, it will become an artifact14:38
pittijodh: https://jenkins.qa.ubuntu.com/view/Saucy/view/AutoPkgTest/job/saucy-adt-lxc/25/ARCH=i386,label=adt/ does have a stderr attachment14:39
pittiE: Couldn't create temporary file to work with /var/lib/apt/lists/partial/security.ubuntu.com_ubuntu_dists_saucy-security_Release - mkstemp (2: No such file or directory)14:40
jodhpitti: looks like that error is coming from apt.14:41
pittiyeah, I guess lxc-create calls that14:42
jodhpitti: I think it might be /usr/share/lxc/templates/lxc-ubuntu.14:43
jodhpitti: hmm - the lxc bzr branch is out-of-date.14:43
pittijodh: https://jenkins.qa.ubuntu.com/view/Saucy/view/AutoPkgTest/job/saucy-adt-lxc/ shows that the very same version succeeded before, so it could certainly be a behaviour change in apt or some other underlying tool14:44
pittijodh: I can just try and re-run it if it could help14:44
pittibut in between the runs there are 16 days; a lot has happened in that time14:45
pittijodh: so it's quite plausible that something in https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/apt/ broke lxc-create14:45
pittilxc doesn't directly depend on apt, otherwise apt would have been held back for this14:46
jibelpitti, it is surprising how tests are dropped easily during package syncs, it happened twice already. I'm wondering if it is the case for other distro patches14:57
pittijibel: yeah, that's why I'm rather insistant of letting exit status 8 count as failure14:57
pittijibel: hm, the "mount: unknown filesystem type 'iso9660'" error in gvfs' autopkgtest is stunning -- isofs.ko is not even in linux-extras, and we should have that; it doesn't happen on my desktop, trying in run-adt-test now15:05
jibelpitti, isn't it caused by the crash of kmod?15:10
pittioh yeah, that would be it15:10
jibelpitti, previous runs fail for different reasons15:11
pittijibel: yes, that was due to "modprobe scsi_debug" not resolving symbols15:11
pittijibel: I also couldn't reproduce this15:11
pittiit's still odd, "log" shows in my local test run that all the tests succeeded15:11
pittiand "run-adt-test -s gvfs" succeeds15:11
pittijibel: I'll re-try this in the actual QA machines15:12
pittijibel: hm, it succeeds on albali, too; WTH15:17
* pitti runs it again, perhaps this only happens on one of the other hosts15:17
pittijibel: hm, it happened again, crazy15:24
pittijibel: so it works on aldebaran and falls over on wazn..15:29
pittijibel: do you know whether anything is wrong with wazn?15:29
pittiah, wazn is raring, aldebaran is precise15:29
pittijibel: so this doesn't look like a saucy bug, but something with qemu/kernel which regressed in raring and was fixed in saucy15:30
pittijibel: just to verify, could I temporarily disable wazn as a slave (how do I do that?) and re-run the test?15:31
jibelpitti, bring it offline15:35
=== netcurli_ is now known as netcurli
slickymasterknome: quick question16:16
knomeslickymaster, yes?16:17
slickymasterknome, I want to start on the translation of Xubuntu-docs, Saucy series. Do you think it's preferable to do it in LP (translations in Rosetta) or should I download the tarball and the upload the translation?16:19
knomeslickymaster, they both should give the same results.16:19
slickymasterknome: yeah, I know :) just asking what you think should be the best approach to do it?16:20
knomeslickymaster, just a note that i'm not sure if we can get the translations set up for saucy (or T), but we'll certainly hope to get to use them (as soon as possible)16:20
slickymasterknome: yes, it's quite big, but I'll try to do as much as I'll manage to16:21
knomeslickymaster, as long as you're the only one working on the translation for that specific language, i think it might be slightly better to work on it offline16:21
knomeslickymaster, not about having complete translations, more related to the technical side of being able to enable them to those who use non-english languages16:22
slickymasterknome, I see what you mean. Anyway as I'm a member of the portuguese translators team I'll mail them alerting them I'm working on it16:23
knomeslickymaster, sure :)16:24
slickymasterknome, thanks :)16:24
elopioping balloons. I have some questions about the test case.16:42
balloonselopio, hey, I was going to see how it was going :-)16:43
elopioballoons: I tried to extract the common things, and just got some questions, no real code :)16:43
elopioballoons: what's the --desktop_file_hint for?16:43
knomeballoons, check your awaylog :P16:43
balloonsknome, :-) xchat lied to me, sorry16:45
balloonselopio, where are you seeing that?16:50
phillwballoons: do we have any resources (e.g. wiki page) for smoke testing? No rush for an answer, I'll be doing some wiki editing on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Activities a bit later.16:51
balloonsphillw, smoke testing, smoke testing.. hm hmm hmm16:51
phillwalso is there a page for hackfests?16:52
balloonsso knome if I get what your saying, because you had enough free space already the installer just used it and didn't prompt you to resize, yes? that makes sense, and we should update :-)16:52
balloonsphillw, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Hackfest16:52
phillwthanks, I'll get that added to Activities16:53
balloonsty :-)16:53
elopioballoons: on launch_test_installed. For exampe ubuntu_filemanager_app/tests/__init__.py16:53
knomeballoons, yup.16:53
balloonselopio, ahh, ok, gotcha :--) That I believe is intended for the desktop to utilize the proper icon etc, but I make very well be wrong16:57
balloonsknome, ok, well we should update it then. Would you like to file a bug for it, or shall I?16:57
balloonson the live / persistence tests, well, they are always a subject of debate, so I don't mind having a discussion on them16:58
elopioballoons: I'm just wondering why do we launch the app with qmlscene instead of just calling the binary. That would make things clearer, but would require the apps to change the binary to receive arguments.16:59
balloonselopio, good question ;-) I don't know tbh.. and actually we should test the binary or the included source.. really is silly to test the installed bits of the binary16:59
balloonstesting that makes no sense at all..17:00
elopioI think it's good to be able to run the tests against the installed package, but I don't like the way we do it.17:00
elopioI'm not sure how to improve that, though. Maybe we can start just refactoring it to take the binary from a method that can be overwritten or changed easily.17:01
balloonselopio, yes, but we should invoke the binary as you say.. the hardcoded location is fragile and will break17:01
knomeballoons, i can do later... or if you have the time, go ahead17:04
knomeballoons, my argument for separating them is that the live session is a low-hanging fruit for anybody, or those who are doing other installation tests17:06
knomeballoons, however, reporting a result without the persistence part is kind of useless..17:06
knomeballoons, and otoh, the persistence part is a big enough chunk to warrant its own test anyway17:06
ubot5Launchpad bug 1205009 in Ubuntu Manual Tests "Auto-resize iso test assumes drive has to be resized" [Undecided,New]17:06
balloonsknome, filing a bug for that idea is probably sane as well.. I can file one now :-)17:07
knomeballoons, bug 1198466 :P17:08
ubot5bug 1198466 in Ubuntu Manual Tests "Live Session Testcase calls for Startup Disk Creator" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/119846617:08
knomeballoons, please do :)17:08
ubot5Launchpad bug 1205013 in Ubuntu Manual Tests "Persistence should be it's own testcase" [Undecided,New]17:11
balloonsalso commented on elfy's bug accordingly17:11
elfyballoons: is there anyway to make an alpha run last longer - in the end we got about 3 days :)17:13
elfyOR is there a way to run a particular snapshot for longer than a day?17:13
knomethe persistence test will always require usb-creator-gtk if we want to allow the "easy" way - and tbh, that's more like a prerequisite for the testcase rather than part of the test (eg. if there's a bug in usb-creator-gtk it's not really a bug in the testcase)17:13
knomeelfy, we are able to control that ourselves afaik17:13
balloonsknome, agreed on the usb-creator-gtk17:14
balloonselfy, yes, I agree with knome, you should be able to fully control how long it runs, when it starts, etc17:15
knomei haven't looked deeply enough into the issue to know how though17:15
knomestgraber would know O:)17:15
balloonswell, this is still a learning exercise.. so yea, :-)17:15
DanChapmanballoons, howdy!17:15
balloonsDanChapman, hello!17:15
knomefwiw, it's not obvious from the tracker17:16
balloonsfyi http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/1j166z/hi_im_mark_shuttleworth_founder_of_ubuntu/17:16
elfyknome: oh ok - didn't know that - much like the rest of the tools ;)17:21
elfyas I said I looked for the manual :p17:22
knomemanual for the qa tracker...17:22
elfyI'll try and catch stgraber and have a chat about it17:22
elfyjust manual would be an excellent start :p17:22
balloonselfy, knome sadly the manual got wiped on the wiki somehow..17:23
* balloons is still grieving17:23
elfyballoons: I'm not sure I believe there even was one :p17:24
balloonsthere was even a section for admins, but again, it's been lost17:24
knomeask the IS if they have backups?17:24
elfy'it got broke' is a likely excuse lol17:24
knomeyou might even get an answer in less than a month :P17:24
elfyleave IS alone please - elfy more worried bout the forum :)17:25
balloonshaha you 217:25
knomefinally no forums so elfy has more time for other things!17:25
elfywell - I wish :)17:25
knomewe should keep the forums closed;)17:25
elfyputting knome on ignore ...17:26
knomei thought i already was17:26
elfyha ha ha17:26
knomei'm sure several community members secretly wish they could ignore me17:27
knomeand some already do ;)17:27
elfythere is a team - they asked - I declined :)17:31
knomedeclined what?17:31
knomelaunchpad team we-have-knome-on-ignore?17:32
slickymasterelfy, hi. I've finished gThumb testscase and it's more than 200 lines long. Do you think that it could problematic?17:32
knomeand you were declined to join?17:32
slickymastercould be17:32
knomeslickymaster, you could split it in several tests if there is a sensible way to split...17:33
slickymasterelfy, truth is gThumb has a lot of features, menu options and toolbar buttons17:33
slickymasterelfy: kind of a small gmb one17:34
slickymasterknome, honestly I don't see how, without loosing consistency17:35
elfythen don't - push it let someone else have a look :)17:37
elfyknome: I was good enough to say I quite liked talking to you17:37
slickymasterelfy, ok, I'll do it tonight, after dinner17:37
phillwballoons: re: the lost wiki pages, can you not find them on google archive? Whilst a bit of a pain to re-format, it's better than nothing.17:37
slickymaster'bye all. until later17:38
phillwballoons: re: smoke testing, the only thing I can find is dated 2008 :( https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/ISO/Smoke17:39
balloonsphillw, the basic idea for us nowadays is smoke testing the development release.. that is, installing and running the daily release.. better described as dogfooding I'd suppose :-)17:40
balloonsall the testers who run saucy fulltime are doing this17:40
phillwdo we have a dogfood guide? :;)17:41
elfywinalot do phillw17:41
balloonsphillw, no it's something I've been lamenting for a little bit17:41
DanChapmanpedegree chum is a fav in this house17:41
phillwI run lubuntu 13.10 as my 'production' machine ever since a fight between vBox and KVM killed my 13.04 :D17:42
phillwSo, the page title would be "dogfooding" or "smoke testing" ?17:43
balloonshmm, elfy knome, maybe we can expand on this page: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/TestCaseAdmins/ManagementOverview17:45
elfythat page is a start - I saw that - it answered none of my questions :D17:45
balloonselfy, it was never intended to :-) But we could use it as a start17:46
balloonsanyways, phillw , efly, knome.. I looked again, no avail.. consider it gone.. which is well enough. We can redo it17:46
elfyballoons: probably we need to look at making a few linked pages - I'm obviously an ideal candidate to work through what's missing lol17:47
balloonsdocumenting the qatracker.. from and admin side and a testers side17:47
elfyI'll add it to my piece of paper that gets longer17:47
balloonsi'll note to some extent it should be selfdocumenting17:47
balloonsI don't want a giant manual.. no one will read it or maintain it if so17:48
xeranasgood evening17:58
elfyit is here :) hope it is there too17:59
xeranasI have trouble to run ubuntu-docviewer-app autopilot tests, seems it fail to run (_StringException) did I miss something?18:02
balloonsxeranas, evening to you!18:21
balloonsxeranas, so, what's the lp branch, I'll grab it and take a look with you18:21
xeranasballoons:  bzr branch lp:ubuntu-docviewer-app18:22
xeranasballoons: I have problem run existing tests18:22
balloonsxeranas, ohh, gotcha18:23
balloonsxeranas, hmmmph.. I get CalledProcessError: Command '['which', '../../ubuntu-docviewer-app']' returned non-zero exit status 118:24
xeranasballoons: same18:24
knomeballoons, what was the wiki page name?18:24
balloonswell, it's not just you then :-)18:24
balloonsknome, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/TestCaseAdmins/ManagementOverview18:24
balloonsxeranas, so let's look and see what's up18:25
knomeballoons, no, the lost manual18:25
balloonsknome, that's the trouble.. I can't remember18:25
balloonswe could try asking xdatap1 if he knows where it's at18:25
balloonsknome, you know Paolo? he might have an idea18:25
knomeheh, i've even met him in person!18:26
balloonshe helped create the admin side pages.. the tester side stuff was on wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/QATracker18:27
xeranasballoons: local_location on __init__.py defined as "../../ubuntu-docviewer-app" other test cases targeting *.qml file. and on launch_test_local there no "qmlscene" atribute. However when I tried change those it seems like they fall in infinite-loop. So not sure how it should be18:30
knomeballoons, does that look old enough? `18:32
knomehttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/CallforTesting/ and subpages what you looking for?18:33
phillwballoons: http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/QATracker exists?18:35
balloonsknome, phillw has already rezzed the qatracker page from google cache18:36
balloonsthe admin stuff though, I've no idea of the url so...18:36
knomeballoons, did you look at the link i gave you?18:36
balloonsxeranas, yes, the launch code needs tweaked, I agree18:36
knomeor was it something even more18:37
balloonsknome, yes, your archive link is more or less the page, minus the pics :-)18:37
balloonsit's there again on wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/QATracker18:37
balloonsxeranas, so the issue with docviewer was/is it has to be launched differently because it needs command line arguments18:38
phillwI thought I recognised it :)18:40
balloonsxeranas, so I18:41
balloonsxeranas, so I'm playing with how it's launching and it doesn't complain anymore, but it doesn't launch the app :-) I'll keep tryuing18:43
xeranasballoons: yea, here it is tricky part of autopilot18:46
balloonselopio and I were  just talking about this actually18:48
phillwballoons: hackfest has been added to activities, just awaiting your decision on the title of the dogfooding / smoke testing page :)18:50
balloonshehe.. dogfooding works fine actually.. perhaps using it will be better since it won't be confusing anything with the other term18:51
balloonssmoke testing is high level see if it blows up style testing.. it can be applied to anything18:51
balloonsxeranas, so, for the moment, might be best to look at something else. We should file a bug stating the tests are broken though19:02
balloonsxeranas, would you like to file it? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-docviewer-app/+filebug19:05
xeranasballoons: I'm bad on summary and descriptions writing, sometimes ppl have hard time to understand me19:09
balloonsxeranas, ok, I'll file :-)19:11
balloonsno worries!19:11
balloonsevening dkessel, Letozaf_19:11
xeranasballoons: ok, thanks19:12
Letozaf_balloons, evening :)19:13
dkesselgood evening balloons :)19:21
balloonshopefully the netsplit has finished :-)19:22
dkesselpitti, asac, interesting discussion you had about the autopkgtests. i'd be willing to help with getting tests to work again, if that is needed.19:22
dkesselalthough i too believe the developer teams should get a first chance of fixing the tests ;)19:23
dkesseloh-oh.... bad net split19:24
balloonsLetozaf_, what are you up to this evening?19:27
Letozaf_balloons, I was running the music app tests so I can write more19:28
balloonsLetozaf_, did you see: https://lists.launchpad.net/ubuntu-touch-coreapps/msg00516.html19:30
balloonsthere's been an on-going thread today about the music app19:31
Letozaf_balloons, yes I saw something pass by, but could not read it, too much e-mails, so I didn't know about it :(   I'm reading now19:34
balloonsLetozaf_, :-)19:34
Letozaf_balloons, victor told me that by email that there is a  known issue and is documented in bug #1204711.19:35
ubot5bug 1204711 in Ubuntu Music App "All 3 Autopilot tests fail" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/120471119:35
Letozaf_balloons, and that was what was happening to me :)19:36
Letozaf_balloons, oh well! I will have to pick something else meanwhile :p19:36
balloonsLetozaf_, did you have questions on the rss reader?19:37
=== Ursinha is now known as Ursinha-afk
balloonsthe dev is online right now :-)19:37
Letozaf_balloons, could not branch it , it was not on the rss reader branch19:37
Letozaf_balloons, if you tell me were to fetch the updated tests I will look at  them now19:38
balloonsxeranas, if your still about, hop in #ubuntu-touch-meeting19:38
Letozaf_balloons, unless the last updates are in the branch now19:38
balloonsLetozaf_, ohh yes the branching thing.. no we resolved that19:38
balloonsfor the tests, we'll grab from your last branch19:38
balloonsthey don't exist in the upstream bracnh anymore19:39
balloonsthey apologized for the massive commit, and it shouldn't be an issue in the future I trust19:39
balloonsbut yea I figured we'd just start from your old branch and copy the files over, then modify them so they work again :-)19:41
Letozaf_balloons, ok so I will bzr branch my old branch, just to be sure I have the right tests19:42
Letozaf_balloons, I got it and ran the tests19:47
balloonsLetozaf_, excellent19:47
Letozaf_balloons, they work fine on my box19:47
Letozaf_balloons, but there were problems in Jenkins19:48
balloonsLetozaf_, really? awesome.. I was expecting re-work19:48
balloonsLetozaf_, well yes, but that doesn't have to be an issue for you :-)19:48
balloonsyou can finish writing the tests needed for it without worry :-)19:48
balloonsI get to worry about jenkins, hah19:48
Letozaf_balloons, fine so I will carry on with other tests19:49
Letozaf_balloons, I will first look at the code to see what you guys did19:49
balloonsAwesome.. yea, do you like the new theming?19:49
balloonsi like the ui much better now19:49
Letozaf_balloons, thats weired I have not new theming ...19:49
Letozaf_balloons, :?19:50
Letozaf_balloons, have I got the wrong branch ?19:50
Letozaf_balloons, bzr branch lp:~carla-sella/ubuntu-rssreader-app/ubuntu-rssreader-test-add-view-feeds19:50
Letozaf_balloons, maybe I missed something, like the copying the files over to my branch19:53
balloonsLetozaf_, ohh, ok lol19:55
balloonsLetozaf_,  so you bzr branch lp:ubuntu-rssreader-app19:56
balloonsit will pull everything down from the new stable trunk.. Then grab your autopilot folder from your lp:~carla-sella/ubuntu-rssreader-app/ubuntu-rssreader-test-add-view-feeds branch and paste it into the directory19:56
balloonsthen, let's see what happens when you run the tests.. they might need tweaked a little19:57
balloonsmake sense?19:57
Letozaf_balloons, sure ok let me do it now19:57
=== Ursinha-afk is now known as Ursinha
Letozaf_balloons, cool, the new theming... but got errors, let me see19:59
balloonsright.. let me know if I can help work through the changes.. I don't think it will be too bad :-)20:01
balloonsmorning thomi20:04
Letozaf_balloons, yes I am looking at the changes made, now... doesn't look too bad :P20:06
balloonshehe :-)20:06
balloonselopio, did you get anywhere on the example? I'd like us to polish it off today if possible20:08
elopioballoons: no, I got distracted with the base test case.20:10
elopioI had done some work with the filemanager app. I can updated it in ~1 hour. Does that sound good?20:10
balloonselopio, fair enough.. I was just hopping back in to look at it, but I can polish off the post instead :-)20:10
elopioballoons: I've just pulled the file manager app from trunk, and now it is showing the toolbar always.20:12
elopiodo you know if that's intended?20:12
balloonselopio, no, but I can ask20:15
balloonsthey're meeting right now actually in #ubuntu-touch-meeting :-p20:15
balloonselopio, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-filemanager-app/+bug/119886120:25
ubot5Launchpad bug 1198861 in Ubuntu File Manager App "Hide the toolbar by default" [Undecided,In progress]20:26
elopiogood :) thanks balloons.20:26
balloonselopio, do you think we can direct bugs here: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-ui-toolkit/+filebug?20:50
balloonsor here: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-ui-toolkit/+filebug?20:50
elopioballoons: the first one.20:50
elopioI'll subscribe there to triage.20:51
elopioballoons: the rename branch has just merged. So, we just have to wait for the nightly packaging.20:52
balloonselopio, so I've just mentioned to look at usr/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/UbuntuUiToolkit/emulators.py if you want to know what the emulator can do.. no docs  otherwise20:53
elopioballoons: I've documented all the public methods. I'm not sure what we need to do to publish those docs to the api page.20:54
balloonshmm hmm20:54
elopioa section here with the methods from the autopilot emulators would be great:20:56
balloonselopio, let me make that piece happen then21:01
balloonselopio, where is the documentation at?21:04
elopioballoons: as docstrings of each class member. Formated with sphinx syntax.21:05
balloonsI'm only slightly familiar with sphinx, but I saw that.. The question is, can I build the docs, or is it going to be a manual extraction thing?21:06
elopioballoons: you can use sphinx to extract that. But I'm not sure how, cgolberg is the one that takes care of our docs.21:07
balloonselopio, ok, I'll pull the source and try21:07
elopioballoons: take a look at lp:selenium-simple-tests. The docs directory.21:09
elopiobut maybe it would be better to ask the sdk team how do they extract the qml docs.21:09
balloonswell, it's something I can do.. So I'll work on that piece :-)21:10
balloonsthe post should otherwise be ready, just need an example, and the docs21:10
elopioballoons: and the package.21:10
balloonswell.. yes, but the bots will have that ready :-)21:11
elopioballoons: I've been updating the filemanager app for the past hour and I still have like one more our to go. They added many tests.21:11
elopioyou mentioned another app that was without tests, right?21:11
balloonselopio, yes filemanager has quite a few.. probably the most :-)21:12
balloonselopio, I was working on dropping letters.. it has no tests21:12
balloonsI thought it would be good to show the basic infrastructure21:12
elopiook, that would make a clearer example.21:12
balloonsright right21:12
elopioballoons: do you have a branch in progress, or should I get trunk?21:12
balloonselopio, I could push something, but it doesn't do much if you'll remember.. let me push it regardless21:13
* balloons facepalms21:14
balloonsI just did a bzr revert and wiped my changes21:14
knomeballoons, stupid.21:15
* balloons is stunned21:15
phillwouch :(21:16
knomeballoons, time to drop all the legacy testcases from iso.qa.?21:16
balloonselopio, grab trunk... in short, I'm an idiot and wiped my work21:20
knomeballoons, can't you rerevert?21:20
elopioballoons: happens to me all the time :)21:20
balloonsknome, what happened was I hadn't yet committed my changes. But before I committed I wanted to see if I needed to pull anything, so I did the pull21:20
balloonsthere was a conflict, so I just reverted without thinking21:21
balloonsI'll note in git I would have simply stashed my changes21:21
balloonsafaik, bzr doesn't have such a thing, but it very well might21:22
balloonsty google... well kids we've learned something21:22
* Noskcaj wants to help with alpha 2 but his internet is too slow21:33
knomeNoskcaj, alpha 2 is released21:41
knomeballoons, teaser: i'm doing something you'll love.21:41
Noskcajknome, My internet is that slow i didn't know. Dial-up is faster21:41
phillwNoskcaj: I moved your testdrive hackfest from having been run, to coming up on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Hackfest21:42
phillwI guessed you were having what we call a 'blonde moment' :)21:43
Noskcaji blame the lack of other hackfests21:44
knomeNoskcaj, no problem to be sorry, just letting you know21:44
Noskcajok, thanks21:44
Noskcaji can't acually open the page to check that's what you are doing. IRC + apt-get update as flooded my connection21:45
phillwballoons: can you edit the topic to reflect this fact please :)21:45
* Noskcaj stop complaining21:45
* balloons was making dinner22:01
balloonsknome, what are you doing?22:01
knomeballoons, it's a teaser - i'm not telling you :P22:01
balloonsNoskcaj, I didn't have the heart to tell you, I was going to silently update the topic22:01
balloonsknome, nice!22:01
=== balloons changed the topic of #ubuntu-quality to: Welcome to Ubuntu Quality | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam | Alpha 2 Released (flavors) and Cadence Week 3 this week | Cadence Week Schedule: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Cadence/Saucy
phillwthe kernel is looking good! (we'll gloss over the -4 version)22:06
knomeballoons, ready?22:31
balloonsohh teaser already?22:31
knomenope.. the real thing!22:31
knomedo you think something like that could help people understand the administration for the trackers?22:32
balloonsknome, a data flow..22:33
balloonsI do like :-)22:33
knomeactually, the owner should be blue background22:33
balloonsbtw, serie is interesting.. I think most would still say series22:34
=== Saviq_ is now known as Saviq
knomeballoons, ah, sure.22:34
balloonsindeed, I believe english is series, with the plural of series...22:36
knomeyes, english is weird22:36
balloonsotherwise, let's see.. is the testcase on the left colors reversed?22:36
balloonsshouldn't hte core testcase be specific, while the other be shared potentially22:36
balloonstestcase (core application) be blue22:36
knomewell, no22:36
balloonsand testcase be yellow?22:36
knomecore application could be xfce terminal22:36
knomewhich is both in ubuntu studio and xubuntu22:36
balloonsright.. so what's the blue one? just showing there is potential for specifics?22:37
knomei'm saying *core* application, because package tests generally do not belong to the ISO tracker22:37
balloonsAlso the download information is specific to a product22:37
knomeyes... but it's generated from a template that is the same for all products22:38
balloonseverything else makes sense22:38
balloonsfair enough I suppose ;-)22:38
knomei would imagine this chart being shown with some text... which can explain things22:39
knomei can also share the svg sources to that file, if you want to modify it22:42
knomeballoons, http://temp.knome.fi/qa/product_chart.svg22:43
balloonsknome, yes a little text would help22:43
balloonsI like dataflow diagrams and I think this handles that nicely22:43
knomeimo, if you can't explain something by such, the thing is too complicated or has too many exceptions22:44
knomewe even explain the whole development cycle by one..22:45
phillwballoons: I know you're busy, but https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Drinking%20our%20own%20champagne is ready for perusal when you get time (I know the link to the forum isn't working, as the forum is still down).22:47
balloonsphillw, :-)22:47
knomewhat a silly page name22:47
phillwknome: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eating_your_own_dog_food#Criticism_and_alternative_terms :D22:48
knomesure sure22:49
phillwuubntu produces a champagne of O/S... I see no problem, but the page name can be changed :)22:49
knomei'm not the one to critisize that, but i'd imagine there are more meaningful page names (with no spaces too)22:50
phillwknome: it will be a link from https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Activities so the fact it has an untidy looking link when pasted up, will not matter :D22:51
knomeit does, if you point to it from outside the wiki22:53
phillwknome: I'm open to ideas :)22:53
balloonswe could be more specific22:53
balloonsrunning the development release22:54
phillwdo you prefer icecreaming?22:54
knomephillw, i prefer anything non-analogous22:54
phillwokies, I'm quite happy with what people are happy with.22:54
knomeRunDevelopmentVersionYourself or sth.22:54
knomethat's long, but way easier to understand than something about champagne22:55
phillwRuuningTheDevelopmentRelease ?22:56
knometo me, that implies instructions on *how* to run the devel ver...22:56
knomeand it's not a release, it isn't out yet, it's a version22:56
knomeRunThe... would be better22:57
knomeif it's about why you should run, not how you run22:57
knomethat sounds good to me22:59
phillwit covers both why and some instructions on how to update, use of PPA's22:59
phillwknome: have a read of the page, it is an alpha release of 'smoke testing' 'dogfooding' etc.23:00
balloonsI agree, we can use the term, but let's keep the page name specific to what it is23:00
balloonsand yes, even dogfooding can confused23:00
balloonsbut I'm ok with using the term on the page phillw :-)23:01
knomei would say RunThe... can cover both why and how23:01
balloonsand drinking champange is fine23:01
phillwI'd never heard of that term, balloons I had to look it up with google!23:01
phillwSo, does it stay champagne themed for what we produce (with spaces) or does it go RunTheDevelopmentVersion ?23:02
knome02:00  balloons: I agree, we can use the term, but let's keep the page name specific to what it is23:03
phillwor, s23:03
knomephillw, pay attention!23:03
phillwas a mid point DrinkingOurChampagne ?23:04
knomethat still doesn't explain the page to somebody who is unfamiliar with the term23:04
knomeif i had a contact page for the qa team, i'd call it QA/Contact, not QA/WillyNillys even if we called each other willynillys23:05
phillwknome: that will be done on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Activities where I will also mention that it is referred to as smoke testing, dogfooding etc!23:05
knomephillw, page content != URLs23:05
knomeurls can appear out of context23:06
=== salem_ is now known as _salem
balloonsphillw, right, I think it best to go with what knome is suggesting and keeping the URL sane23:07
phillwknome: indeed they can, but from a media side, the phrase 'drinking our own champagne' has a much better feel than, for example. dogfooding. If we are confident enough in our own system to use it to test our own system and produce a champagne quality release each cycle. But... I only help write the content... I'll cancel the request for a nice icon for the page.23:09
knomephillw, neither me or balloons is saying we can't use the term in the page itself23:10
knomephillw, we're just saying it's better keep the page names sensible so that they are self-explanatory for anybody seeing the URL23:10
balloonsright exactly.. nothing has to change on the page, just make the url a little saner23:11
phillwokies :D23:11
balloonsdogwalking time23:11
phillwrename to RunTheDevelopmentVersion23:11
balloons+1 from me23:12
knomephillw, that sounds like a plan23:12
knomeballoons, have fun :)23:12
phillwI'll edit the top bit to explain the various terms that we know about such a system :)23:14
phillwknome: balloons https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/RunTheDevelopmentVersion and you can remove the spiel if you want, but I think that letting people know that we ARE a good O/S does not get mentioned enough :)23:21
knomephillw, i'm completely fine with analogies in the page content23:27
phillwi also did go in change the mention of dev release to dev version, after I posted the revised link up.... I'm about wiki'd out now.. been quite a day with the last minute respins of lubuntu alternate, release notes etc :D23:28
knomebeen a long but productive day for me too23:29
phillwI,m still kicking myself for not realising the -5 kernel didn't get into the lubuntu alternates and it caused grief for our testers as they sought (and found) a way round it. But, these things happen and it will not happen again :)23:33
knomeit was just an alpha...23:34
knomewe have a few nasty bugs as well, but at least we now know they exist23:34
phillwhaving testers spend their time working a way around a problem that shouldn't have been there is annoying to me.23:35
knomedoesn't that description fit to any bug? :)23:35
phillwas lubuntu looks pretty stable now (famous last words), I'll ask if any of the testers can also help out on xubuntu and ubuntu-gnome come beta 1.23:36
phillwwe're all family, and here to help each other.23:37
knomewe're much stronger now than a few releases ago regarding testing, which is good23:37
phillwthe saying is "bums on seats", it is a never ending cycle of recruiting new testers. for this reason whilst some may think I have vanished from the radar, I and Nicholas have spent some considerable man hours on getting https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Activities into something that  a new commer would not run away from :P23:40
knomethough by "we" i was referring to xubuntu separately this time ;)23:41
knomebut yeah, the whole QA community has grown as wel23:41
phillwyup, we have 109 members on https://www.facebook.com/groups/UbuntuQA/ who may, or may not be active. But social media is another way to reach out to people.23:42
knomefrom my experience, social media is fine for things that aren't too serious23:42
knomei won't count on anybody coming from social media to deliver any even partly critical features23:43
knomenot saying people can't grow to be part of the team, but that's my initial level of expectations23:43
phillwit is, however a good way for people to 'dip their toe in the water'...23:43
knomebut then you must also feed them fruit that are low-hanging enough23:44
knome(to continue with the analogies)23:44
phillwabsolutely! I saw on ubuntu-bugs today such an event. A guy had proposed a bug fox for a typo. His 1st ever proposed fix. The attitude of the person dealing with him was critical. As it was TLoT on #ubuntu-bugs , the guy has gone away very happy and more confident.... little things like that make a massive difference.23:46
* TheLordOfTime was pinged23:47
TheLordOfTimephillw:  he didn't propose the fix, it was already accepted :P23:47
TheLordOfTimehe wanted the fix upstreamed is all.23:47
phillwTheLordOfTime: no, we were talking about you, not TO you :D23:47
TheLordOfTimestill, YOU PINGED ME :p23:48
* TheLordOfTime goes back to ignoring IRC and spending time on the beach with a drink23:48
phillwTLoT pings you?23:48
TheLordOfTimeit's in my highlights list23:48
phillwnot my fault :D23:48
TheLordOfTimeno... but you pinged me.23:48
TheLordOfTimethis is going to end up a cyclic conversation so... ;P23:48
* TheLordOfTime goes back to enjoying the beach.23:49
phillwknome: like you, he is so technical in his descriptions etc... IDK, I see areas of grey on releases, not pure black and white.23:51
knomethe more to-the-point and self-explanatory you can be, the better23:51
phillwI'm not quite sure what kate would have said if I did a respin a couple of hours before release and not have time to fully test :D23:52
phillwThe thing there was that I knew (with as much certainty as any one can) that doing amounts to an SRU onto the ISO would be fine.23:54
knomei did do this "i know it's after UI freeze, but can we change our logo" for the 12.04 LTS...23:56

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