[07:10] <MooDoo> morning all
[07:49] <diddledan> yawnage
[07:51] <MooDoo> +1
[07:56] <TheOpenSourcerer> +100
[07:58] <popey> ☻
[07:58] <directhex> +9001
[07:59] <MooDoo> directhex: always the last word ;)
[07:59] <SuperMatt> o/
 Good morning, Dave </HAL>
[08:00] <popey> https://twitter.com/virginmedia/status/361753975738990592
[08:00] <popey> oof
[08:01] <SuperMatt> D: D: D: D: D: D: D: D:
[08:01] <dwatkins> fail
[08:03] <dwatkins> What does DPA stand for in this context? Some kind of validation?
[08:03] <TheOpenSourcerer> On a lighter note but quite amusing: http://newsthump.com/2013/07/25/wonga-com-retaliates-by-unveiling-believable-religion/
[08:04] <neuro> i don't understand, how can they create a religion?
[08:05] <neuro> this is disgusting
[08:05] <neuro> i'm going to complain to my MP
[08:05] <neuro> maybe i should set up an e-petition, those things always get results
[08:06]  * popey notes it's newsthump
[08:06] <SuperMatt> popey: that link is getting around my tweetors quite quickly
[08:06] <neuro> i don't care what news site it is, it's disgraceful!!
[08:06] <neuro> in fact, let's ban this news site
[08:06] <czajkowski> aloha
[08:06]  * neuro stops trying to be "funny"
[08:06] <neuro> too early on a monday for comedy
[08:07]  * MooDoo nearo had a go at neuro till he realised he was joking lol
[08:07] <MooDoo> too early :D
[08:07] <neuro> haha
[08:07] <neuro> was wondering who would bite first
[08:07] <neuro> i love reading some reactions to articles in the onion
[08:07] <SuperMatt> popey: one thing to note: the passwords might not be *stored* in plain text, but the fact that a minimum wage service rep can get them is *extremely* worrying
[08:08] <neuro> SuperMatt: what's not clear is *what* password he's talking about
[08:08] <SuperMatt> I would imagine it's either the accoun
[08:08] <neuro> if it's his access password to identify him over the phone to customer services, that's just bad practice
[08:08] <SuperMatt> oops
[08:09] <SuperMatt> for phone stuff they usually use something like mother's maiden name
[08:09] <neuro> if it's his account password to their online servicing, then there's a serious problem
[08:09] <SuperMatt> but I imagine he probably has an "account" password, connected to his email address
[08:09] <neuro> well, it's unclear :)
[08:09] <SuperMatt> sure
[08:10]  * neuro has just purchased his album for the month
[08:10] <neuro> Oblivion soundtrack
[08:10] <MooDoo> just watched that the other night
[08:10] <neuro> crackin', innit
[08:11] <MooDoo> yeah enjoyeed it
[08:12] <neuro> i've been saying this elsewhere, really liking Joseph Kosinski's stuff
[08:12] <TheOpenSourcerer> can I have the day off? Feel like going back to bed...
[08:12] <MooDoo> TheOpenSourcerer: get in the queue
[08:12] <neuro> will be interesting to see what he does after the tron legacy sequel
[08:12] <MooDoo> TheOpenSourcerer: in fact can i work for you so you can send me home?
[08:13] <TheOpenSourcerer> Only if I can work for you too
[08:13] <MooDoo> deal, feel free to go home :d
[08:13] <TheOpenSourcerer> mutual employment
[08:13] <TheOpenSourcerer> MooDoo: Unfortunately I am already at home. Just not in bed.
[08:14] <MooDoo> TheOpenSourcerer: ah home/office?
[08:14] <TheOpenSourcerer> yes
[08:14] <MooDoo> thought you had business premisis now?
[08:14] <TheOpenSourcerer> I had rather a "big" weekend.
[08:14] <MooDoo> nuff said
[08:16] <TheOpenSourcerer> Oooh - that just cheered me up - checked company bank account. Customers paying chunky invoices in 2 days :-D
[08:17]  * TheOpenSourcerer feels a divi coming on shortly.
[08:17] <MooDoo> yay
[08:17] <neuro> TAX EVASION ALERT!
[08:17] <directhex> i got a tax refund this year :o
[08:17] <TheOpenSourcerer> Nothing wrong woth divis
[08:17] <neuro> sure :)
[08:18] <brobostigon> good morning everyone.
[08:18] <MooDoo> TheOpenSourcerer: you should have a community beer fund for people that help you with stuff ;)
[08:18] <neuro> just make sure you never complain about corporates using tax loopholes :)
[08:18] <MooDoo> you owe me a beer for the helpful advice I just gave you lol
[08:18] <MooDoo> hmmm still too early?
[08:19] <ali1234> whats a divi?
[08:20] <neuro> dividend
[08:20] <ali1234> oh, i see
[08:20] <MooDoo> A dividend is a payment a company can make to shareholders if it has made enough profit.
[08:20] <neuro> it's a way for contractors to save tax obligations
[08:20] <ali1234> i know what a dividend is :)
[08:20] <neuro> pay yourself a minimum wage, then get the rest of your profits from dividends
[08:22] <neuro> doing stuff like that is why tax regulations like IR35 were brought in
[08:25] <ali1234> where can i buy a leap motion except for amazon?
[08:25] <popey> you want to pay in loldollars?
[08:25] <ali1234> if possible, but mainly i just don't like amazon
[08:26] <popey> direct?
[08:26] <popey> https://store.leapmotion.com
[08:26] <ali1234> ah thank you
[08:26] <neuro> loldollars!
[08:26] <popey> np
[08:26] <popey> jono calls bitcoins "linden dollars"
[08:27] <popey> iirc
[08:28] <ali1234> that's just confusing
[08:28] <ali1234> people will think he actually means linden dollars
[08:30] <ali1234> bitcoin actually increased the value of lindens because they were one of the easiest intermediate ways to buy in
[08:30] <neuro> remind me to slap jono next time i see him
[08:30] <SuperMatt> aren't linden dollars from secondlife?
[08:30] <ali1234> yes
[08:30] <neuro> yup
[08:36] <mungbean> is that still going?
[08:36] <MooDoo> yeah
[08:36] <neuro> http://secondlife.com/
[08:37] <MooDoo> I also used to play Entropia Universe
[08:39] <popey> I think I probably "played" second life for about an hour in total
[08:39] <popey> i dont quite get it
[08:39] <neuro> it's pretty easy to get
[08:39] <mungbean> its for people who don't like leaving the house?
[08:39] <neuro> think of it as visual irc with 3d building component
[08:39] <neuro> mungbean: why say that?
[08:40] <mungbean> irc is something i do while doing other things though
[08:40] <popey> it's very much like minecraft
[08:40] <popey> or vice versa
[08:40] <neuro> s/irc/chat/ then
[08:40] <neuro> yeah
[08:41] <neuro> wouldn't surprise me if second life informed minecraft to a certain extent
[08:41] <neuro> if you can grok minecraft, you can certainly grok second life
[08:42] <mungbean> do you still play minecraft?
[08:42] <directhex> there's no direct line from SL to minecraft
[08:42] <directhex> minecraft is largely a clone of a game called infiniminer
[08:43] <neuro> *sigh* :)
[08:43] <neuro> i didn't say that
[08:44] <mungbean> i've heard people say they don't play MC anymore cos it got dull, said notch runied it or somethig
[08:49] <ali1234> on the contrary, second life is much more difficult to understand than minecraft
[08:49] <ali1234> mainly because the modelling controls are so utterly awful
[08:49] <ali1234> the second life economy is based around the idea of paying someone else to use it for you
[08:49] <MooDoo> I love MC :D
[08:58] <popey> mungbean: yes, i still play it
[08:58] <popey> my kids play it quite a bit too
[09:00] <MooDoo> I've got a couple of servers running which makes it a bit more fun, popey do you still have the ubuntu uk one running?
[09:04] <mungbean> what's a reasonable time to wait for a quote for a new fence?
[09:05] <mungbean> 1 week? 2 weeks?
[09:05] <MooDoo> quote?  few days i'd say lol
[09:05] <mungbean> yeah :(
[09:06] <popey> MooDoo: i run one at home, it's not really ubuntu-uk one
[09:07] <JamesTait> Good morning all, happy Tiger Day! :-D
[09:07] <MooDoo> popey: ah i was just looking for the map :)
[09:08] <popey> there isn't one
[09:09] <mungbean> watched life of pi over the weekend. bought it in march but only just had time to watch it with missis
[09:09] <mungbean> anyone enjoy it?
[09:10] <DJones> In a way, I think its better to play MC without a map, you have to remember where everything is & find things by accident rather than looking at a map and going straight to a village
[09:11] <MooDoo> can't say it interests me
[09:12] <popey> yeah, DJones
[09:12] <popey> the kids spent some time today playing with horses
[09:12] <mungbean> IRL ?
[09:13] <DJones> Horses are fun in MC
[09:13] <mungbean> they must smell less
[09:13] <popey> in minecraft
[09:15] <mungbean> i wonder if MC has helped sales of lego
[09:15] <mungbean> although lego don't need the help
[09:27] <MooDoo> https://jeena.net/images/2012/PHP-The-Good-Parts.pdf
[09:27] <MooDoo> monday funny
[09:27] <MartijnVdS> MooDoo: morning :)
[09:28] <MooDoo> morning MartijnVdS how are you?
[09:33] <MartijnVdS> bored at work ;)
[09:34] <MooDoo> MartijnVdS: what you do again?
[09:34] <neuro> he sticks needles into squirrels to turn them into hedgehogs
[09:34] <MartijnVdS> MooDoo: I write perl code (CMS/backend stuff for a big ISP)
[09:34] <MooDoo> nice job, can see why yuor bored
[09:35] <MooDoo> MartijnVdS: which one <nosey mode off>
[09:35] <MartijnVdS> MooDoo: xs4all
[09:35] <MartijnVdS> .nl
[09:35] <MooDoo> name rings a bell for some reason
[09:35] <MartijnVdS> MooDoo: they started in the early 90s as a "hacker"-type ISP
[09:35] <mungbean> loads of people on holiday this week, let's see how the documentation holds up. already had a server crash at 9am
[09:36] <mungbean> MartijnVdS: cameron would seek to ban those in UK :P
[09:36] <mgdm> mungbean: are you aware of the Netflix Chaos Monkey?
[09:36] <MooDoo> mungbean: did you try turnng it on and off again ;)
[09:36] <MartijnVdS> mungbean: good thing we don't have cameron (and we *do* have a law that explicitly forbids filtering ;))
[09:36] <mungbean> MooDoo: yes, it worked. however i spent 1hr finding the correct password for the drac/ipmi rather than the incorrect one in the docs
[09:37] <mungbean> cameron would ban reddit i think, and probably google
[09:37] <mungbean> mgdm: nope
[09:37] <MooDoo> mungbean: you need a documentation monkey to go update them all
[09:37] <mungbean> i do good docs, unfortuantely i don't manage all those people
[09:38] <mgdm> mungbean: Netflix have a daemon that randomly goes and kills servers, to ensure they have fallbacks - http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/2011/04/working-with-the-chaos-monkey.html
[09:38] <mungbean> nice, i think ?
[09:38] <MartijnVdS> I write great docs. Too bad our sysadmins don't read them ("How do I install this?" "perldoc X" "But how do I install it?" "perldoc X, then search for "INSTALLING" "You're not helping.")
[09:38] <mgdm> mungbean: I saw someone advocate an HR equivalent, the other day, where you send people on holiday randomly to see that the documentation they left behind is good enough
[09:39] <MartijnVdS> mgdm: that sounds like an excellent idea!
[09:39]  * mungbean just realise my shoes smell :( need new trainers
[09:39] <MartijnVdS> mgdm: did they have a name for it?
[09:39] <neuro> odor eaters!
[09:39] <mungbean> probably the name of my colleague
[09:40] <mungbean> every time he goes away, there is catastrophe
[09:40] <mgdm> MartijnVdS: 'HR Monkey'? :)
[09:40] <mungbean> do odour eaters work, or just mask the smell?
[09:40] <mungbean> and do they sell it in the 99p shop
[09:40] <diddledan> odour eaters work until they start stinking themselves :-p
[09:40] <neuro> dunno about pountd
[09:40] <neuro> erk
[09:40] <MartijnVdS> mgdm: but that would overload the existing term :P
[09:41] <mungbean> is odour eaters a spray??
[09:41] <neuro> dunno about the pound shop, but you'll get em in boots etc
[09:41] <mungbean> or an insert
[09:41] <mgdm> MartijnVdS: ;-)
[09:41] <neuro> both
[09:41] <neuro> http://www.boots.com/en/Boots-Brands-A-to-Z/Odor-Eaters
[09:41] <mungbean> i think its cos i went from 2 trainers to one pair
[09:41] <mungbean> so the 1 pair got used all the time
[09:42] <mungbean> i can buy new trainers for £16 :S
[09:42] <neuro> do you wear your trainers all day?
[09:42] <mungbean> yes, although just took them off to cool my feet down
[09:42] <neuro> i only wear shoes when i'm outside
[09:42] <mungbean> i'm at work
[09:42] <neuro> slippers for kicking about the house
[09:42] <neuro> and i take them off when i'm sitting in the lounge watching teh telly etc
[09:43] <mungbean> i have work trainers though
[09:43] <neuro> yes, yes, i am an Old Man
[09:43] <mungbean> i have slippers for home
[09:43] <neuro> so, not all day then :)
[09:43] <mungbean> my fet get quite hot
[09:43] <neuro> sounds like you need shoes that let your feet breath
[09:43] <mungbean> Collect your order from store for free when you spend over £20
[09:43] <mungbean> ^^ boots = rip off
[09:44] <mungbean> might check local chemist
[09:44] <neuro> yup, they'll do them too
[09:44] <mungbean> smell = bacteria
[09:44] <mungbean> so my feet are prob not good
[09:44] <MartijnVdS> wash your feet?
[09:45] <mungbean> yes i do :P
[09:46] <mungbean> will wander down to sports direct at lunch
[09:46] <neuro> best trainers i ever owned were Converse EV Pro 2K5
[09:46] <mungbean> how did we get from chaos monkey to feet..
[09:46] <neuro> they don't make em any more :(
[09:46] <neuro> mungbean: you're the one who brought up your smelly feet
[09:47]  * mgdm has new Converses, the boot kind that I've not had before, which I discovered while 'tired' on Saturday morning fit almost as well on the wrong feet as they do on the right ones
[09:48] <mgdm> :(
[09:48] <neuro> nice
[09:48] <neuro> i don't do hi tops
[09:48] <MartijnVdS> mgdm: that's easier for the factory kids
[09:48] <MartijnVdS> mgdm: they only have to make one kind of show
[09:48] <MartijnVdS> shoe
[09:48] <mungbean> had a discussion with my 3yr old about socks. he reckons there are left socks and right socks
[09:48] <mgdm> I was walking to the shop and wondered if my feet geniunely did splay out at 60 degrees
[09:48] <mgdm> because that was a new thing
[09:48] <MartijnVdS> mungbean: there are, go to a sports/hiking store
[09:49] <neuro> mgdm: lol
[09:49] <MartijnVdS> mungbean: (running/hiking socks are "sided", because they're shaped and have fewer seams)
[09:49] <bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
[09:50] <mgdm> 'lo bigcalm
[09:50] <shauno> that'd drive me nuts.  I love being able to just buy a whole bucket of identical socks
[09:50] <Azelphur> well, that was eventful
[09:50] <Azelphur> I just had my phone line disconnected for ~5 minutes
[09:50] <mgdm> '200 for a pound-A!'
[09:50] <mungbean> my wife boguht a load of black fresh feet socks for herself
[09:51] <mungbean> they got mixed up with my batch
[09:51]  * popey hugs his nabee socks
[09:51] <Azelphur> happened before like a month ago, BT engineer told me if it happened again, sprint outside to the cabinet and see if there's an engineer messing about
[09:51] <Azelphur> sure enough, located said BT engineer, seems that somebody is issuing disconnect orders for my line
[09:51] <mungbean> got her to sew a little thing on the corner of her socks, but i occasionally get a tiny sock and am never quite sure
[09:51] <mungbean> tainted sock collection
[09:51] <Azelphur> right phone number, wrong flat number, probably why
[09:51] <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: just pay your bills :P
[09:51] <Azelphur> MartijnVdS: haha, I am paying :<
[09:52] <Azelphur> gonna phone up talktalk and tell them to stop doing that. xD
[09:53] <neuro> funny, my boss has been having the exact same probs with talktalk
[09:53] <mgdm> Oh, TalkTalk, eh
[09:53] <MartijnVdS> neuro: twist: Azelphur IS your boss
[09:53] <mgdm> (I used to work in their call centre in Lewis, before it was owned by TalkTalk)
[09:53] <mgdm> (that was ~13 years ago though)
[09:54] <neuro> thing is, it's still Openreach at the cab
[09:54] <neuro> s/still Openreach/an Openreach engineer/
[09:54] <neuro> which usually isn't too bad IME
[09:54] <neuro> but worst case scenario you get a Kelly Communications engineer-o-drone
[09:54] <neuro> utter muppet from what i hear
[09:54] <neuro> s/muppet/muppets/
[09:55] <mungbean> there's a green tele box on cambridge heath rd that is used by tramps and druggies and is open to the elements all the time. i've seen vomit on the boards in there too
[09:55] <mgdm> niiiiiice
[09:55] <mungbean> surprised anything works
[09:55] <mungbean> door always open
[09:55] <Azelphur> haha
[09:55] <neuro> that's why the vdsl ones are bigger, faster, stronger
[09:56] <neuro> since it's not just krone blocks, it's DSLAMs as well
[09:56] <Azelphur> neuro: yea, he had my phone number but a different flat number
[09:56] <Azelphur> so clearly something is up
[09:56] <mgdm> Surely you mean harder, better, faster, stronger
[09:57] <neuro> work it, make it do it makes us
[10:02] <mungbean> hmmm
[10:02] <mungbean> ps -ef | grep chrome | wc -l
[10:02] <mungbean> 16
[10:02] <mungbean> this does not help my memory usage. i closed chrome
[10:02] <mungbean> still 16 processes running
[10:03] <mgdm> kill 'em all
[10:03] <mungbean> freed ~1gb
[10:04] <mungbean> keeps happening though
[10:04] <mungbean> and forcing tb and ff to swap out
[10:09] <neuro> wimp
[10:09] <neuro> melbourne:~ neuro$ ps ax | grep -i chrome | grep -vc grep
[10:09] <neuro> 84
[10:09] <mungbean> chrome is being used though, right?
[10:09] <neuro> well yeah ;)
[10:10] <mungbean> my issue is mistakenly thinking it is shut down
[10:10] <mungbean> very windows-esque
[10:13] <mungbean> what's yandex? a search engine?
[10:13] <davmor2> Morning all
[10:13] <mgdm> mungbean: I believe so, 'Big in Russia'
[10:14] <mungbean> more hits from yandex than bing on my blog
[10:14] <MooDoo> blimey nearly 7 years in my current job :S
[10:14] <mungbean> somebody searched for "police microsoft centos"
[10:15] <popey> yes, russian one
[10:16] <popey> in the news recently because the founder died
[10:17] <mungbean> Yandex is one of Russia's biggest internet companies - valued at £6.5bn ($10bn) and has more than double Google's market share in the country.
[10:19] <neuro> i hate waiting for parcels
[10:19] <neuro> YODEL! *shakes fist*
[10:19] <mungbean> so don't
[10:19] <neuro> wut
[10:19] <mungbean> don't wait
[10:19] <neuro> um
[10:19] <neuro> i have to?
[10:20] <mungbean> you make it sound like an active activity
[10:20] <mungbean> make it a passive one
[10:20] <neuro> it pretty much is
[10:20] <mungbean> do other thing :P
[10:20] <neuro> i am, but the things i can do are restricted
[10:20] <mungbean> make a jigsaw puzzle
[10:20] <neuro> why would i make a jigsaw puzzle?
[10:20] <mungbean> :)
[10:20] <neuro> i'm pretty sure i don't get paid to make jigsaw puzzles
[10:21] <mungbean> it encourages thought process
[10:21]  * mgdm bought "Programming the Raspberry Pi: Getting Started with Python" for his gf last night
[10:21] <neuro> doesn't really contribute to productivity though, does it?
[10:21] <mungbean> i would definitely do it if i had my own office still
[10:21] <mungbean> long term it does
[10:21] <neuro> ok,
[10:21] <mungbean> work smarter not harder ;)
[10:21] <neuro> a) i HATE jigsaw puzzles
[10:22] <mungbean> just don't tell people , they might not believe you
[10:22] <neuro> b) it wouldn't help me upgrade our web stats system
[10:22] <MooDoo> mungbean: palm off all your work to a indian programmer
[10:22] <MooDoo> didn't some american do that?
[10:22] <neuro> c) it wouldn't help me migrate my mates' linux box
[10:22] <directhex> work it
[10:22] <directhex> make it
[10:22] <directhex> do it
[10:22] <directhex> makes us
[10:22] <neuro> d) it wouldn't help me install my new nas, which is in the back of a Yodel monkey's van
[10:22] <neuro> e) did I mention that I hate jigsaw puzzles?
[10:22] <mungbean> sounds like you aren't waiting for b and c
[10:23] <neuro> oh, and f) I HATE JIGSAW PUZZLES
[10:23] <MooDoo> neuro: which nas did you go for?
[10:23] <neuro> ds213j
[10:23] <neuro> with a couple of 2tb reds
[10:23] <MooDoo> nice
[10:23] <popey> i usually do a jigsaw or two on holiday
[10:23] <neuro> and a 500gb wd black for my esxi server
[10:23] <popey> great way to relax
[10:23] <neuro> jigsaw puzzles don't make me relax, unfortunately
[10:23] <neuro> too fiddly
[10:24] <directhex> any bright ideas on where to buy a rack, cheap?
[10:24] <MooDoo> i'm going for the next one up the ds413
[10:24] <neuro> i thought about the 413 but i don't need the storage
[10:24] <MooDoo> cool :)
[10:24] <mungbean> directhex: i've given some away in the past
[10:24] <neuro> don't need that much capacity, i mean
[10:24] <MooDoo> yeah I got you
[10:24] <mungbean> contact friends and universities for sapre ones
[10:24] <directhex> mungbean, that's the annoyance - racks are free or £££££ but nowhere in between really
[10:24] <neuro> 2TiB more than enough for my esxi hosts
[10:24] <mungbean> popey: i take jigsaws on holiday too
[10:25] <mungbean> and airfix models of course
[10:25] <MooDoo> neuro: you have a proper dedi then using the nas as the storage device?
[10:25] <mungbean> because england always rains
[10:25] <neuro> MooDoo: i have a crappy zoostorm dual pentium thing with three intel NICs onboard
[10:25] <mungbean> and a nice piece of battenberg cake with hot chocolate and jigsaw rocks
[10:25] <neuro> the 1TB that shipped with it is failing
[10:26] <neuro> funnily enough, the RAM that shipped with it failed as well, luckily i was already going to replace it with 16GB of crucial goodness
[10:26] <MooDoo> neuro: ah cool :D  i need a new machine as mine is 32bit so can only run a 3.5 esxi :(
[10:26] <neuro> never buying a zoostorm again
[10:26] <neuro> my other esxi box is a pentium D, runs 4.x sweet
[10:26] <neuro> tho i'm decommissioning that one, an old dell dimension 5150
[10:26] <MooDoo> mines running fine, just want to play with v5 :D
[10:26] <neuro> power
[10:26] <neuro> using less leccy = win
[10:27] <neuro> yeah, my newer one runs 5, gonna upgrade to 5.1
[10:27] <MooDoo> nice :)
[10:28] <neuro> which reminds me, i need to charge up dell laptop to manage the bloomin' things
[10:28] <MooDoo> neuro: windows client ?
[10:28] <neuro> vsphere client
[10:28] <MooDoo> yeah tht's what i meant, pain that isn't it.
[10:28] <neuro> yup
[10:28] <neuro> i only keep PCs around for vsphere and games :)
[10:29] <neuro> my dell xps whatever it is has been in sleep mode for weeks
[10:29] <MooDoo> i dual boot the laptop win7 / ubuntu
[10:29] <neuro> in fact i forget what it is
[10:29] <neuro> ah xps 8500
[10:29] <neuro> i can't do dual boot
[10:29] <neuro> invariably what you want is on the other OS
[10:30] <neuro> which is why i prefer separate machines or virtualisation
[10:31] <mungbean> i have a dual boot laptop runnign synergy for any vsphereOS needs
[10:32] <neuro> "Parcel out for delivery" ... i want to listen to music, dammit!
[10:34] <SuperMatt> stick a microphone next to the doorbell hoohah. Then write a program which kills the music/mutes the sound when the doorbell goes
[10:34] <neuro> i don't have a doorbell
[10:34] <SuperMatt> although I'm sure you could probably use an arduino or ... oh
[10:34] <mungbean> magnetic switch on the knocker
[10:34] <neuro> the "knocker" is a letterbo
[10:34] <neuro> x
[10:34] <mungbean> has a knocker though?
[10:35] <neuro> it's a letterbox
[10:35] <mungbean> the letterbox could have a little switch on it
[10:35] <SuperMatt> could you do something where you create a circuit, and when it's broken by the opening of the letter box, it does something?
[10:35] <mungbean> when the circuiot breaks...
[10:35] <neuro> i don't like the idea of putting electricity anywhere near my door :)
[10:35] <mungbean> i have a doggy
[10:35] <neuro> ha
[10:35] <mungbean> barks like crazy
[10:36] <neuro> never thought of that
[10:36] <SuperMatt> but it'd be a really small current
[10:36] <SuperMatt> use a makey makey
[10:36] <SuperMatt> oh
[10:36] <MartijnVdS> I'd use a huge current. Make sure you catch the delivery guy
[10:36] <neuro> tho i get enough barking from the dogs on either side
[10:36] <neuro> MartijnVdS: for yodel, might be a good idea
[10:37] <neuro> next time i order from ebuyer, i'll make sure to put in the notes to call me when they're at the door
[10:37] <neuro> i really should put my webcam back on the office window to look right at the front door
[10:38] <mgdm> s/webcam/sentry gun/
[10:38] <mungbean> or install a doorbell
[10:38] <neuro> doorbells suck
[10:38] <neuro> just another thing i need to change the batteries in
[10:38] <MartijnVdS> batteries?
[10:38] <neuro> or another thing i have to run an extension lead to
[10:38] <mungbean> they have a good feature though
[10:39] <neuro> what, of annoying me?
[10:39] <mungbean> as they can be wired/wirelessly ring in different parts of the house
[10:39] <neuro> i just want a big pneumatic tube that stuff can appear from
[10:39] <neuro> oh good, someone's phoning my landline
[10:40] <neuro> let's see if they leave a message
[10:40] <neuro> nope
[10:41] <mungbean> prboavbly delivery man
[10:41] <neuro> doubt it, since ebuyer don't have my landline number
[10:41] <neuro> either of them
[10:41] <MooDoo> anyone on virgin? - https://twitter.com/virginmedia/status/361753975738990592
[10:47] <mungbean> those "character building dr who" figures were in stock for minutes, and now out of stock again :(
[10:48] <MartijnVdS> mungbean: they're popular..
[10:49] <MartijnVdS> mungbean: I bought the anniversary edition Dr Who Monopoly
[10:50] <neuro> dr who ... pfff
[10:51] <MartijnVdS> neuro: it's fun!
[10:51] <neuro> i've gone off it, unfortunately
[10:51] <neuro> i still watch it, but it's just not as enjoyable as Old Who
[10:51] <neuro> imho
[10:51] <mungbean> of course
[10:51] <mungbean> and i can never watch them twice
[10:52] <mungbean> they go stale so quickly
[10:52] <neuro> the odd episode is absolutely genius, and they're a joy to watch
[10:52] <neuro> the odd episode is utter crud, and you wonder how it got past the quality control
[10:52] <neuro> the rest is just ... meh
[10:52] <mungbean> i think its been built up as something special though
[10:52] <neuro> well it sort of is
[10:52] <mungbean> in the 70s and 80s they weren't exactly epic
[10:53] <neuro> there's all that heritage
[10:53] <mungbean> a lot were quite humdrum and slow moving
[10:53] <mungbean> and naff of course
[10:53] <neuro> it's one of the few shows that's remained relatively true to itself
[10:53] <neuro> well yeah
[10:53] <neuro> :)
[10:53] <neuro> jon pertwee got hobbled by all the "oh lets stay on earth" stuff
[10:54] <mungbean> except dr who was supposed to be professiorial old man rather than pseudo messiah
[10:54] <neuro> yeah
[10:54] <mungbean> with fit assistants
[10:54] <neuro> grumpy old man
[10:54] <mungbean> actualyl he always had fit assistants
[10:54] <neuro> pretty much
[10:54] <neuro> mmm, teagan
[10:54] <mungbean> :-|
[10:54] <mungbean> u sure?
[10:54] <neuro> ?
[10:54] <neuro> course!
[10:55] <neuro> and romana II
[10:56] <mungbean> amy pond and clara are prob among the most attractive women on telly
[10:56] <mungbean> they can sure pick them
[10:57] <neuro> most of my telly is from the US, they can pick em too
[10:57] <mungbean> not really my type
[10:57] <neuro> monday lunchtime = watching last night's newsroom
[10:57] <neuro> emily mortimer + olivia munn
[10:57] <neuro> americans aren't really your type?
[10:58] <neuro> also i have a man crush on jeff daniels
[10:58] <mungbean> what are often considered good looking american women i rarely find attractive,
[10:58] <mungbean> too fake
[10:59] <neuro> depends on what you watch, i guess
[11:00] <neuro> time for the newsroom \o/
[11:04] <popey> wheee rain
[11:05] <MooDoo> here we go again, hope it doesn't flood
[11:06] <popey> hah, stopped again
[11:07] <popey> it's really stop/start today
[11:07] <mungbean> weird, chrome fails to exit cleanly every time
[11:07] <popey> as does spotify here
[11:08] <popey> crashes every time i close it
[11:08] <mungbean> stays running i mean
[11:09] <brobostigon> if memory serves, chrome does have a function to keep running in background, even when the main window is closed.
[11:09] <mungbean> i also discovered that tweetdeck on android is now dead
[11:09] <mungbean> i last checked twitter on 19th july.
[11:09] <Myrtti> brobostigon: yeah and it's on by default
[11:09] <brobostigon> Myrtti: yep.
[11:10] <mungbean> brobostigon: found it, ta
[11:10] <brobostigon> mungbean: :)
[11:10] <mungbean> naughty
[11:10] <Myrtti> it has some valid usecases
[11:11] <Myrtti> but not many
[11:11] <brobostigon> like in chromium-os
[11:11] <Myrtti> like offline gmail etc.
[11:56] <selinuxium> Afternoon all   o/
[11:56] <selinuxium> Got a fairly upset machine... ran out of space on /boot...
[11:56] <selinuxium> cleared it down but now having dependancy issues..
[11:57] <selinuxium> The following packages have unmet dependencies.
[11:57] <selinuxium>  linux-image-server : Depends: linux-image-3.2.0-45-generic but it is not installed
[11:57] <selinuxium>  linux-server : Depends: linux-headers-server (= 3.2.0.45.54) but 3.2.0.51.61 is installed
[11:58] <selinuxium> tried sudo apt-get install -f  and not helping..
[11:58] <selinuxium> Any ideas?
[12:01] <MooDoo> selinuxium: http://askubuntu.com/questions/252777/how-can-i-resolve-dpkg-dependency
[12:01] <MooDoo> that help?
[12:07] <selinuxium> MooDoo, did you get my reply? I may of had a bounce whilst replying..
[12:08] <MooDoo> selinuxium: no i didn't, i can see the bounce but no reply
[12:09] <selinuxium> Ah, Ok... Anyway, cheers. that helped... One thing I was missing was to remove linux-server whilst tidying up. all tidy now and linux-server reinstalled. update/upgrade in progress.
[12:09] <selinuxium> :)
[12:10] <MooDoo> fab :)
[12:11] <selinuxium> TBH the removal of linux-server was a bit worrying... Glad the writer of the post was clear about it.
[12:11] <MooDoo> google is your friend ;)
[12:13] <neuro> "@YodelOnline is now following you!"
[12:13] <neuro> never mind that twitter guff, yodel, where's my effing parcel!?
[12:13] <MooDoo> lol
[12:13] <MartijnVdS> neuro: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=67rc96joOz8
[12:13] <MooDoo> no online tracking?
[12:14] <neuro> 09:27 Parcel out for delivery
[12:16] <MooDoo> you'll get it at 6 or you'll hear the door go and see a note saying noone was in to collect parcel, that happened to me
[12:16] <neuro> hehe, popey must have had interactions with Yodel in the past, he's following them :)
[12:16] <mungbean> is there a subreddit for sound engineers?
[12:16] <neuro> MooDoo: didn't even get a note through the door on saturday
[12:16] <neuro> if i had no internet, i wouldn't have known
[12:16] <MartijnVdS> neuro: so now you're going to interrogate him?
[12:16] <neuro> pretty much
[12:16] <neuro> i have the My First Amateur Waterboarding Kit handy
[12:17] <diddledan> isn't amature waterboarding the equivalent to actually drowning the victim?
[12:18] <selinuxium> MooDoo, I had several Googles... none came up with the remove server bit..
[12:18] <mungbean> or maybe just unpaid
[12:18] <Azelphur> ali1234: BFL have just mailed me to inform me that they are shipping orders on my pay date :o
[12:18] <MooDoo> selinuxium: stupid computers ;)
[12:20] <neuro> the interesting thing about yodel asking me on twitter what happened, is that at no time did I @ them.  They must search twitter for mentions of Yodel
[12:20] <neuro> which must mean they see more yodelling pics and videos than anyone else on the planet
[12:20] <neuro> other than yodellers themselves
[12:20] <neuro> diddledan: nah, just means i don't have professional spec gear
[12:21] <popey> neuro: yes, they neglected to deliver some tomato juice I ordered from amazon
[12:21] <neuro> empty milk carton and a washing up tub
[12:21] <popey> contacted them and they said "yeah, it was spoiled" - i.e. they dropped it
[12:21] <neuro> popey: nice
[12:21] <neuro> lol
[12:21] <popey> they never told me this, so I had to nag them to find this out
[12:21] <neuro> if they drop my NAS and disks, i shall go nuclear on them
[12:21] <popey> heh
[12:21] <neuro> if ebuyer are going to make a habit of using yodel, i will probably have to stop using them
[12:22] <neuro> which is a shame
[12:22] <neuro> i'd happily pay an extra few quid to get stuff delivered from them via fedex, ups, dhl, parcelforce ...
[12:22] <MartijnVdS> neuro: but wait.. you can pay for other shipping, only £10
[12:22] <neuro> ?
[12:23] <MartijnVdS> neuro: oh some stores here allow you to choose how they ship it
[12:23] <mungbean> top tip: i should ash up my mugs at work after using rather than 3 days later
[12:23] <neuro> i can choose how quickly stuff can be shipped to me
[12:23] <mungbean> ^ash^wash
[12:23] <selinuxium> 'lo popey...
[12:23] <MartijnVdS> neuro: but most are €10 or more more expensive
[12:23] <neuro> and that's it
[12:23] <selinuxium> I am so tempted to buy an Edge...
[12:23] <neuro> do it
[12:23] <neuro> or, you know, don't
[12:23] <neuro> and remember, you're not "buying" an Edge, you're pledging to the campaign to build them
[12:24] <mungbean> at what price though selinuxium
[12:24] <selinuxium> Any news from Canonical about whether UK customers are going to get hit with import tax?
[12:24] <neuro> import tax?
[12:24] <selinuxium> Double Edge I think...
[12:24] <Azelphur> selinuxium: I very much doubt it, the indiegogo says that it's free shipping inside UK or US, indicating that they are distributing from both locations.
[12:24] <neuro> and i think the VAT issue was settled, no?
[12:24] <Azelphur> UK to UK shipping isn't hit by import tax obviously
[12:25] <mungbean> the reality is that unless they ofer more phones below700, it wont make it
[12:25] <Azelphur> it's an assumption, but the likely scenario
[12:25] <neuro> the current funding level has dipped below the straight line goal rate
[12:25] <neuro> 7.05m as of 13:00, should be at least 7.35m
[12:25] <mungbean> yes,
[12:26] <mungbean> flatlined due to price sweet spot breached
[12:26] <popey> ☻
[12:27] <selinuxium> Could do with some big investors getting in on the $10,000 packs..
[12:27] <neuro> bah, every time i hear footsteps outside, my ears perk up
[12:27] <selinuxium> I really could do with this going off.
[12:27] <mungbean> neuro: have you done anything while waiting?
[12:27] <neuro> "investors" is the wrong term, surely
[12:27] <neuro> mungbean: of course, i've been working, and watching The Newsroom
[12:28] <selinuxium> neuro: Why is that?
[12:28] <neuro> selinuxium: investors expect a return on their investment
[12:28] <neuro> if the campaign earns $32m, they get a phone
[12:28] <neuro> if the campaign earns $132m, they get a phone
[12:28] <MartijnVdS> if the campaign earnts $31999999, nobody gets a phone
[12:29] <neuro> if the campaign succeeds, no more ubuntu edges will be made
[12:29] <MartijnVdS> earns
[12:29] <selinuxium> neuro: I invest in technology all the time, it doesn't mean I expect rewards based on sales?
[12:29] <ormiret> Could count as investment if you back for a bunch of phones with the intention of putting them on ebay.
[12:29] <neuro> lol
[12:29] <mungbean>     Expend money with the expectation of achieving a profit or material result by putting it into financial schemes, shares, or property, or...: "getting workers to invest in private pension funds"; "the company is to invest $12 million in its new manufacturing site"
[12:29] <mungbean>     Devote (one's time, effort, or energy) to a particular undertaking with the expectation of a worthwhile result.
[12:32] <neuro> mungbean: my point is that (re waiting for delivery) is that i'm constantly distracted when i hear noises outside, thinking it's yodel monkey with my parcel
[12:33] <neuro> and i have to not listen to music constantly because i may not hear the door
[12:33] <mungbean> coulda solved that with jigsaw ;)
[12:33] <neuro> or at least not at my normal listening levels
[12:33] <neuro> i'd have thrown the jigsaw out of the window by now
[12:33] <neuro> told you, i hate em :)
[12:33] <mungbean> even a haribo one?
[12:33] <mungbean> or star wars?
[12:34] <neuro> I. Hate. Jigsaws.
[12:34] <mungbean> i made one on my honeymoon \o/
[12:34] <neuro> also, need to be super vigilant with this crowd, because they have a tendency to just rock up to your door, sans parcel, knock, immediately stick card through door, then bugger off
[12:35] <mungbean> put nails on the parking space outside
[12:35] <mungbean> no quick getaway
[12:35] <neuro> there are a lot of parking spaces outside
[12:35] <neuro> i don't live on a traditional straight street with houses on either side of a road
[12:35] <neuro> so i don't have a drive
[12:36] <mungbean> if you can't cure your OCD you have to pay more for timed delivery slots ;)
[12:36] <MartijnVdS> neuro: you live on a 30-acre estate with a 3 mile winding driveway?
[12:36] <popey> I read The Code Book on my honeymoon
[12:36] <neuro> i don't have OCD
[12:36] <neuro> and ebuyer don't offer timed delivery slots
[12:36] <popey> *CDO
[12:36] <mungbean> popey: where did you honeymoon?
[12:36] <popey> Maldives
[12:36] <MartijnVdS> popey: \o/ CDO, with letters in the correct order ;)
[12:36] <mungbean> ah nice.
[12:36] <popey> it was, very
[12:36] <mungbean> i would like to so sometime, but sans kids
[12:37] <popey> I would love to go back again
[12:38] <mungbean> i was in a stone cottage on bodmin moor , windswept in november, wood burner stove and hot choc and marshmallows. we toook a dvd player and  bought the star wars ep III dvd as it had just come out
[12:38] <neuro> sod it
[12:38] <neuro> don't care
[12:38] <mungbean> we did not plan on going out much
[12:38] <neuro> box is here
[12:38] <MartijnVdS> neuro: delivery guy is a whimpering mess?
[12:38] <mungbean> neuro is aptly named
[12:39] <neuro> MartijnVdS: no, i signed for it and let him go, because it's chucking it down with rain outside
[12:39] <neuro> i'm a git, but i'm not that much of a git
[12:40] <neuro> mungbean: _neuro_mancer
[12:40] <mungbean> not neuro tic?
[12:40] <neuro> neuromancer was too long for 8 char login names
[12:40] <neuro> and neuroman sounded crap
[12:40] <MartijnVdS> neuroman would work
[12:40] <MartijnVdS> it sounds like a superhero
[12:41] <mungbean> and his sister neurosis
[12:45] <popey> mungbean: we had a wedding anniversary in a farmhouse with wood burning stove in Cornwall once.. very nice. No TV IIRC.
[12:45] <MartijnVdS> Cornwall++
[12:46] <mungbean> yeah, i try to go to devon or cornwall ever couple of years
[12:46] <mungbean> going to a windsept cottage on portland this year
[12:46] <mungbean> no such thing as bad weather, only wrong clothing
[12:47] <popey> St Buryan was where we went
[12:47] <MartijnVdS> popey: hey, I think I may have passed that place on the way back :)
[12:47] <mungbean> oh that's near some lovely beaches, some of the best I've ever seen
[12:48] <MartijnVdS> I can (and will ;)) recommend The Old Success Inn (Sennen Cove)
[12:48] <mungbean> i go near st breward on bodmin
[12:48] <popey> http://www.lamorna.biz/ found it
[12:48] <popey> that was the farm
[12:48] <popey> we walked down to Lamorna cove so it must be that one
[12:49] <MartijnVdS> mungbean: https://plus.google.com/photos/100189567362844794281/albums/5877491002319853233/5878153298996490994?pid=5878153298996490994&oid=100189567362844794281
[12:50] <popey> lovely part of the world
[12:51] <mungbean> wanted to go back to where i stayed on my wedding night...now boarded up :( http://img01.beerintheevening.com/53/53725b52131bf5a93191d8931a0ad13d.jpg
[12:52] <popey> ☹
[12:53] <mungbean> MartijnVdS: did you pay to go into stonehenge or peek over the fence
[12:54] <Azelphur> http://allthingsbitcoin.org/2013/07/29/bitcoin-mining-unit-sells-on-ebay-for-us10866-88/
[12:54] <Azelphur> blimey, I have 3 of those
[12:54] <selinuxium_> Meh.. Keep getting booted... :/
[12:55] <selinuxium_> Worrying as on the work network..
[12:55] <MartijnVdS> mungbean: paid, but got the "overseas visitor pass", which gets you into all English Heritage locations
[12:56] <MartijnVdS> mungbean: (if you go to >3 in a week, it's cheaper than paying for entry everywhere)
[12:58] <mungbean> how close can you go to the stones?
[12:58] <MartijnVdS> mungbean: not very
[12:59] <MartijnVdS> mungbean: you can buy a "between the stones" tour, but they're hard to get tickets for
[13:04] <SuperMatt> omg
[13:04] <SuperMatt> the pope
[13:04] <SuperMatt> actually doing the right thing
[13:04] <MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: popey?
[13:04] <SuperMatt> well, yeah, we know he's infallable
[13:04] <SuperMatt> but I'm talking about the other one
[13:04] <MartijnVdS> what did he do then?
[13:04] <SuperMatt> "Pope Francis: Who am I to judge gay people?"
[13:04] <SuperMatt> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-23489702
[13:05] <MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: ah, so he's out of the closet?
[13:07] <popey> hah
[13:08] <mungbean> " that homosexual acts were sinful, but homosexual orientation was not."
[13:08] <mungbean> thats been their policy forver
[13:08] <mungbean> journalists are funny
[13:08] <mungbean> presenting something as a news story
[13:08] <mungbean> when its not
[13:09] <SuperMatt> It's still big
[13:09] <SuperMatt> it means that a lot of people will have to refrain from all their judging
[13:10] <mungbean> christians are never meant to judge non-christians anyway
[13:10] <SuperMatt> no, they're not
[13:11] <SuperMatt> but they do because they haven't had anyone telling them not to
[13:11] <mungbean> but there is behaviour that they disagree with as unrighteous, which makes people feel condemned
[13:11] <MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: gee, why would THAT be
[13:11] <mungbean> if i said that i don't drink tea because i believe it is sinful, then after a while you would feel judged by me
[13:11] <mungbean> whethe i am judging you or not
[13:14] <mungbean> can i update nfs package without having to unmount all my mounts?
[13:14] <MartijnVdS> Unknown
[13:14] <SuperMatt> I'm genuinely mostly excited because I wanna see the reaction of the christian americans
[13:15] <MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: Christian Americans aren't catholic usually
[13:15] <MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: but one of several weird sects of protestantism
[13:15] <SuperMatt> sure, but the reaction is going to be amazing either way :D
[13:15]  * SuperMatt gets some pop-corn
[13:15] <mungbean> no it won't
[13:15] <mungbean> the article doesn't mean anything
[13:16] <MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: they're very good at ignoring things they can't "process"
[13:17] <SuperMatt> MartijnVdS: oh indeed, which is why I think it'll be interesting to watch
[13:18] <SuperMatt> I want to see how they try to justify that they should ignore this
[13:18] <MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: If you like watching grass grow, or paint dry, or similar ;)
[13:18] <mungbean> american christians would say the same as me
[13:18] <mungbean> as what i said up there
[13:18] <MartijnVdS> mungbean: "meh"?
[13:19] <mungbean> also american christians don't require celibacy for clergy, which is the cause of all sorts of problems
[13:20] <MooDoo> yeah take it to #christian ;)
[13:21] <MartijnVdS> mungbean: neither do the English, right?
[13:21] <mungbean> correct
[13:21] <mungbean> it is an unbiblical concept to require it anyway
[13:21] <mungbean> but that never stopped the catholics
[13:22] <popey> first one to give me a giffgaff nick gets the referal
[13:22] <popey> expected faster response than that
[13:23] <MartijnVdS> popey: everybody is looking it up ;)
[13:23] <popey> heh
[13:24] <popey> i should ask on twitter, get a zillion replies than
[13:24] <popey> *then
[13:25] <mungbean> http://giffgaff.com/orders/affiliate/oimon
[13:25] <mungbean> popey: ^
[13:25] <SuperMatt> popey: deusmetallum
[13:26] <mungbean> you snooze you lose SuperMatt
[13:26] <SuperMatt> butts
[13:26] <MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: God of metal? Really? :)
[13:26] <SuperMatt> yup
[13:26] <SuperMatt> it's a username I can guarantee will not be used on any website *except* ones I've signed up to
[13:27] <neuro> wheeee blinky lights
[13:27] <popey> too late ☻
[13:27] <mungbean> you tease
[13:27] <popey> asked in another channel and got an instant response
[13:29]  * neuro rushes off to register 'deusmetallum' on every website he can find
[13:29] <mungbean> can i restart nfs service if i've got mounts open? what happens?
[13:29] <neuro> Bad.
[13:30] <neuro> Bad things.
[13:30] <neuro> The dead will rise from the grave.
[13:30] <neuro> The moon will shift from its orbit.
[13:30] <neuro> The seas will turn to blood.
[13:30] <neuro> and your mounts will probably get upset for a second or to, then reattach
[13:30] <neuro> s/to/two/
[13:41] <mungbean> phew, just noticed my goodybag was set to *not* recur
[13:48] <mungbean> oh kde, why thee so ugly? http://blogs.kde.org/2013/07/29/kde-plasma-desktop-411s-new-task-manager
[13:49] <popey> \o/ got PAC code from orange
[13:49] <popey> apparently i have been a customer or orange since 21/09/1995
[13:49] <SuperMatt> mungbean: I agree
[13:50] <SuperMatt> I've always avoided KDE because I've felt like it actually *wants* me to be sick
[13:50] <mungbean> kde3.x seemed ok to me, and gnoem at the time was ugly and fuzzy and big icons etc
[13:51] <neuro> popey: blimeh
[13:51] <SuperMatt> To me, there always seems to be a lot of unused grey space in KDE
[13:51] <mungbean> also using windows7 feels like kde too
[13:51] <neuro> i've been a voda customer most of the time between 1998 and now
[13:52] <neuro> bounced out to orange then to t-mob then back to voda between 2005 and 2010 :)
[13:57] <neuro> this little synology dude is rather sweet
[13:58] <neuro> might suggest to my dad to get one, would handle a lot of stuff on their lan with the installable apps and save me doing stuff ;)
[14:02] <mungbean> and you can plug a camera into it
[14:15] <MartijnVdS> synologies are ♫
[14:15] <MartijnVdS> uh
[14:15] <MartijnVdS> ♥
[14:15] <MartijnVdS> (U+2665, not U+266b)
[14:29] <mungbean> my son has decide to answer every "no" question as "nope"...every time.
[14:29] <mungbean> also uses "yep" and i heard him say "whype" for why lol
[14:32] <shauno> eh, you can't fault his logic :)
[14:32] <mungbean> yeah, "nope" is same as no , daddy
[14:33] <Azelphur> haha, aww
[14:33] <mungbean> i think he picks up new words from his granpa
[14:33] <mungbean> he started calling me "dad" suddenly after a visit
[14:38] <mungbean> today has been dreary
[14:40] <Azelphur> mungbean: saw this one the other day, amused me http://imgur.com/r/funny/9LJ3R2h
[14:40] <mungbean> heheh
[14:40] <mungbean> not bad for /r/funny
[14:40] <Azelphur> indeed xD
[14:45] <mungbean> is anyone aware of publically accessible data for populating surveys such as city-region-town that get pre-filled ?
[14:46] <Azelphur> mungbean: doesn't roboform do that?
[14:47] <mungbean> i mean get hold of a complete data set of cities and regions to pre-populate fields
[14:47] <mungbean> i.e i choose estonia as country, then have choice of region and then choice of cities in that region
[14:47] <Azelphur> oh, good question
[14:48] <shauno> maxmind has a db for that (the same folks as the regular geoip db, but without the geoip)
[14:52] <shauno> actually, http://www.geonames.org/export/ looks tidier since they actually specify a licence (CC-BY)
[14:53] <mungbean> nice work, cheers, will look at this
[14:57] <mungbean> this actually kind of proves my point
[14:57] <mungbean> what they wanted to do is unreasonable
[14:57] <mungbean> they should force the user to choose country from dropdown but cuty/region should be typed
[14:58] <shauno> trying to force addresses is almost as hairy as trying to force names.  it has to be pretty freeform
[14:58] <mungbean> i agree but needed proof
[14:59] <mungbean> and is enfield in middlesex or greater london...the concept is flawed
[14:59] <shauno> eg, ireland doesn't have postcodes (outside of dublin), but making sure I had a postcode is usually your first step in validation
[15:00] <shauno> let alone when you start running into places like india.  we have a customer whose address is "behind such & such hotel"
[15:00] <mungbean> really, no postcode?
[15:00] <shauno> they're planned, but so far, nada
[15:01] <shauno> the latest attempt is out for tender, and they're aiming for 2017
[15:03] <shauno> and then there's places like http://smartystreets.com that are under the impression that validating addresses is difficult enough that they can built a product/service around it
[15:08] <mungbean> state or country is the best yo'll feasibly be able to do yourself then
[15:20] <mungbean> this is the best list i found http://pastebin.com/ZmfqR5BR
[15:50] <seal> Hi Y'all.
[15:50] <seal> I have been reading http://symfony.com/doc/current/cookbook/security/custom_authentication_provider.html and thinking of how to implement this both on a symfony2 based api server and consumer client.
[15:50] <seal> So far my understanding is that I would implement, Token, Listener, AuthenticationProvider and Factory on the API Server. How about the client side?
[16:07] <MartijnVdS> http://www.newsbiscuit.com/2013/07/28/hs2-abandoned-in-favour-of-rebuilding-birmingham-10-minutes-closer-to-london/
[16:09] <seal> Sorry guys. Wrong IRC
[17:59] <MartijnVdS> sigh.. flickr:
[17:59] <MartijnVdS> Woof! Martijn vdS!
[17:59] <MartijnVdS> Now you know how to greet people in Dog!
[18:02] <diddledan> omg, I needed to know that for a quiz yesterday
[18:03] <MartijnVdS> diddledan: 8-0
[18:03] <MartijnVdS> 8-)
[18:06] <diddledan> we've got lightning - I hope my UPS holds long enough once the power goes out (it's inevitable, right?)
[18:06] <MartijnVdS> I don't know
[18:06] <MartijnVdS> power seems pretty steady where I live
[18:06] <neuro> i've not had a thunderstorm-related power outage since I moved here nearly 13 years ago
[18:07] <MartijnVdS> though last time I was in the UK when there was a storm, the power went out
[18:07] <MartijnVdS> but that was in Sennen
[18:07] <MartijnVdS> not quite Land's End, but almost.
[18:08] <diddledan> I think land's end counts as "beyond civilisation"
[18:08] <neuro> i'm having a running argument with a slow person on Twitter about why ISPs should not be responsible for the data that is sent and received over their networks, i.e. the neutral carrier argument
[18:09] <neuro> he's citing megaupload and tpb as data points viz "it's not us, it's the users"
[18:09] <neuro> i think i'll have to school him on the difference between website operators and Internet Service Providers
[18:09] <diddledan> neuro: I'm worried where it will leave me 'cos I run a hotspot for my block of flats. I'm concerned that I'm expected to individually filter each person that connects and allow them to select the "I'm a pervert" button
[18:10] <neuro> cross the bridge when it comes, mate
[18:10] <neuro> remember this is just a proposal right now, nowhere near legislation
[18:10] <neuro> so this is the best time to beat it down, when it's not a law that will take time to dismantle
[18:10] <MartijnVdS> a scary proposal
[18:10] <neuro> indeed
[18:10] <diddledan> thank dog
[18:10] <neuro> Woof!
[18:11] <diddledan> I've signed the petition that someone linked in here yesterday
[18:11] <neuro> the open rights group one?
[18:11] <neuro> or the e-petitions one?
[18:11] <diddledan> on the e-petitions government site
[18:11] <neuro> https://www.openrightsgroup.org/campaigns/cameron-stop-sleepwalking
[18:12] <diddledan> *signed*

[18:15] <neuro> (i.e. "Every little helps") :)
[18:15] <neuro> i think you were signature 3,999 :)
[18:16] <diddledan> lol, sweet
[18:17] <neuro> edge now $0.5m below target
[18:17] <diddledan> :-(
[18:17] <neuro> they're gonna need a helluva push
[18:43] <neuro> woo hoo
[18:43] <neuro> root@intrepid:~# mount | grep cargobay2 | cut -d\( -f1
[18:43] <neuro> cargobay2:/volume1/data on /data/cargobays/2 type nfs
[18:44] <neuro> 2 terabytey goodness
[18:48] <MartijnVdS> only 2? ;)
[19:15] <diddledan> neuro: I like the hostname :-)
[19:15] <diddledan> everyone knows cargobay2 is the best of all the bays available
[19:57] <mungbean> has a petition ever achieved anything?
[19:58] <brobostigon> a;an turing, possibly being pardoned by the government for his bad treatment by the government.
[20:00] <popey> Hillsborough documents being released?
[20:15] <ali1234> wouldn't they have to release those documents eventually anyway, after like 50 years or something?
[20:15] <mgdm> yes, but by that point the people who should be held to account may no longer be about
[20:16] <ali1234> true
[20:16] <ali1234> alan turing has had loads of petitions and campaigning over the years
[20:17] <ali1234> they were lobbying to get him pardoned when i was at uni and that was 12 years ago
[20:17] <ali1234> so it's not really fair to put that all down to "a" petition
[20:17] <mgdm> No
[20:17] <ali1234> though of course it surely helped
[20:17] <mgdm> the problem with online petitions is they're far too easy to make and it's far too easy to sign one and think to yourself you've made some kind of difference
[20:18] <mgdm> with the Turing thing, the campaign was big on various other media too
[20:18] <ali1234> otoh it's very easy to dismiss them like that and then do nothing at all
[20:18] <mgdm> fair point
[20:19] <ali1234> i signed the porn block one the other day
[20:20] <ali1234> i haven't signed any others that i can remember
[20:20] <daftykins> i see their being online as carrying no weight
[20:20] <daftykins> although actually i see no weight to any petition
[20:20] <mungbean> i signed a google drive native client one and realised it has all the power of a facebook "like"
[20:21] <ali1234> that's more like a straw poll though
[20:21] <ali1234> or free market research
[20:21] <ali1234> "do you want free stuff? y/n"
[20:21] <mungbean> on a similar topic, how much would you sell your right to vote for?
[20:21] <ali1234> hmm
[20:22] <ali1234> not less than the amount needed to buy another one
[20:24] <mungbean> i voted for a major party even though they are all spectacularly bad
[20:24] <ali1234> as far as the government epetitions go, the way i see it, their weight is determined in context. that is, if a petition is very much more popular than all the others then it has some weight
[20:25] <mungbean> or there's been an orchestrated twitter campaign
[20:25] <ali1234> so in a way, the dumb petitions people make do "help" - by providing a benchmark
[20:25] <ali1234> yeah, it's called canvassing and it always happens
[20:26] <ali1234> democracy doesn't spontaneously happen in a vacuum... you have to take all of that into account... which is exactly what i mean by looking at all of the petitions in context
[20:28] <ali1234> hmm actually, when you say "your right to vote" are you saying that the buying gets to choose who i vote for, or the vote just does not happen?
[20:28] <ali1234> these are actually quite different
[20:29] <mungbean> not happen
[20:30] <ali1234> perhaps a couple of hundred pounds then, in that case
[20:30] <mungbean> you have choice of lifetime opt-out of voting, or just a one-off general election
[20:30] <ali1234> how much is poll tax... erm i mean council tax, these days?
[20:30] <mungbean> well over 1000
[20:30] <ali1234> probably about that much
[20:31] <mungbean> poll tax woulda been cheaper
[20:31] <ali1234> i would definitely accept no tax == no vote, but only if it also applied to vat
[20:32] <mungbean> i only just reading about chromecast
[20:32] <mungbean> haven't seen g+ or twitter for 10 days or so
[20:32] <ali1234> chromecast looks neat
[20:33] <popey> yeah
[20:33] <popey> cheap too
[20:33] <ali1234> nobody likes futzing behind the TV with cables ... when you finally get it working and show everyone your holiday snaps it is always incredibly anti-climactic
[20:33] <daftykins> apparently they're almost done getting full android on it
[20:33] <mungbean> seems to be a train/coach crash every day this week
[20:33] <popey> not sure I'd want full android on it
[20:33] <daftykins> mungbean: been something else since the Spain one? :o
[20:33] <mungbean> switz
[20:34] <mungbean> and a coach in italy
[20:34] <ali1234> the whole point is you control it with the full android on your tablet, in your hand
[20:34] <diddledan> does chromecast work with ubuntu, though?!
[20:34] <ali1234> it's like a wireless video connection
[20:34] <popey> doesnt look like it
[20:34] <ali1234> diddledan: not yet anyway
[20:34] <diddledan> then I call shenanigans
[20:34] <popey> but they have had the remote youtube thing for a while
[20:34] <popey> I remember sending youtube video to my desktop, must have been part of early development of chromecast
[20:35] <ali1234> yes
[20:35] <ali1234> well, you can remote control youtube on one device from another device, as long as they both run chrome
[20:35] <ali1234> which is exactly what chromecast does. so the smart money would say it's the same sauce
[20:35] <mungbean> http://askubuntu.com/questions/324236/how-can-i-use-chromecast
[20:36] <popey> AIUI the chromecast runs android - or at least some guts of it
[20:36] <popey> as opposed to the chromeos OS
[20:36] <ali1234> meh
[20:36] <mungbean> who has chromium 28?
[20:36] <popey> i do
[20:36] <ali1234> they're both linux and they can both run chrome (the browser)
[20:37] <ali1234> chromecast dongle doesn't need any menus and desktop widgets ergo it doesn't need much of chromeOS or android
[20:37] <mungbean> with extra netflix sauce?
[20:37] <popey> my nexus 4 still doesn't have android 4.3
[20:37] <daftykins> nor mine
[20:37] <daftykins> my UK friend just flashed the recoveries on
[20:37] <daftykins> https://developers.google.com/android/nexus/images#occamjwr66v
[20:37] <popey> if i knew where my kids nexus 7 was I'd see if that had it
[20:37] <ali1234> mine doesn't show any updates
[20:38] <popey> yeah, downloaded it earlier, rather do OTA tho
[20:38] <daftykins> same
[20:38] <daftykins> not like there's anything worth updating for anyway
[20:38] <popey> I am going to drop it anyway and flash ubuntu on mine
[20:38] <popey> doing a bit of a jiggle about
[20:38] <mungbean> https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/google-cast/boadgeojelhgndaghljhdicfkmllpafd
[20:39] <mungbean> google cast hare content from Chrome to Cast devices.
[20:39] <mungbean> The Google Cast extension enables you to find and play content on your Chromecast device from your Chrome browser.
[20:39] <ali1234> hare content?
[20:39] <popey> in fact screw it, I'm flashing it now
[20:39] <mungbean> Share
[20:39] <ali1234> like, lagomorphs?
[20:40] <diddledan> popey: does the nexus7 version of ubuntu support the gsm modem yet?
[20:40] <popey> the grouper has no gsm modem
[20:40] <popey> i dont think we support the newer ones yet
[20:40] <popey> someone is welcome to port it :D
[20:40] <ali1234> it shouldn't be that hard to make it work though right?
[20:41] <diddledan> really?
[20:41] <diddledan> I thought all three of the models were grouper (until the announcement the other day of a brand new model)
[20:42] <ali1234> no
[20:42] <ali1234> it's never that simple
[20:42] <diddledan> fudge
[20:42] <popey> \o/ flashed
[20:42] <ali1234> that was fast!
[20:42] <popey> well.. flashing...
[20:43] <ali1234> oh, ok :(
[20:43] <popey> android with spinning pants
[20:43] <popey> s/pants/tummy/
[20:44] <popey> the new flashing process should be quicker I think
[20:44] <ali1234> speaking of hare content, did anyone see that TV channel for dogs thing the other day?
[20:45] <ali1234> not sure if i was reading the onion or not
[20:46] <ali1234> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-21719731
[20:46] <ali1234> apparently i was not
[20:48] <popey> \o/ flashed
[20:50] <diddledan> so, if my nexus 7 is not grouper, how come most things worked last time I tried it?
[20:50] <ali1234> cos it's similar?
[20:51] <ali1234> the code name doesn't really tell you much more than the product name
[20:52] <isleofmandan> Hello, from my shiny new XPS 13 Developer Edition ;)
[20:52] <popey> ☻
[20:52] <brobostigon> grouper as i understand it, the wifi only nexus7, and tilapia is the 2012 gsm and wifi model.
[20:53] <ali1234> isleofmandan: was it you who impulse bought it the other day?
[20:53] <isleofmandan> Yes
[20:53] <ali1234> so, i take it you're happy with it then?
[20:53] <isleofmandan> :)
[20:53] <popey> I met Barton George from Dell last week.
[20:53] <popey> who runs the Sputnik programme
[20:53] <popey> very nice chap
[20:53] <isleofmandan> So far so good. A few niggles, but it's Linux ;)
[20:54] <popey> if you have niggles, call support
[20:54] <ali1234> popey: that the guy who did the hangout?
[20:54] <popey> they are replacing the intel wifi cards under warranty
[20:54] <isleofmandan> Very minor. E.g. Installer didn't set my locale properly
[20:54] <popey> dunno, didnt see it
[20:54] <daftykins> isleofmandan: does yours still default to US?
[20:54] <popey> you using the install that came on it? 12.04?
[20:54] <ali1234> lol, i only watched it cos you plugged it
[20:54] <popey> hah
[20:54] <popey> powah!
[20:55] <popey> I also buy miracle grow
[20:55] <isleofmandan> And it has some weird windowsy/dosy partition called DELLUTILITY that just seems to waste space
[20:55] <popey> thats the recovery part
[20:55] <isleofmandan> popey: yes, out of the box install of 12.04
[20:55] <popey> so if it borks you can reinstall
[20:55] <ali1234> handy
[20:55] <ali1234> ubuntu should have that by default
[20:55] <popey> +1000
[20:55] <daftykins> wasting disk space, ugh
[20:55] <ali1234> would save me making boot disks all the time
[20:56] <ali1234> i don;t care about space i have a 100GB /
[20:56] <diddledan> there'd be evil version skew involved tho after a few years from purchase
[20:56] <ali1234> just put the iso in a bootable partition during install please
[20:56] <isleofmandan> There's another 3GB partition that I assmed was recovery... So the DELLUTILITY boots the other one?
[20:56] <popey> diddledan: how so?
[20:56] <ali1234> there's typically two recovery partitions on OEM hardware
[20:57] <diddledan> popey: I'm assuming that dell aren't going to update the recovery partition every ubuntu release
[20:57] <isleofmandan> ali1234: thanks
[20:57] <ali1234> one for the OS reinstaller, the other for OEM specific stuff like drivers and also maybe a user backup tool
[20:57] <ali1234> and other utils they like to stuff in there
[20:57] <popey> diddledan: does any OEM?
[20:57] <popey> for any OS?
[20:57] <ali1234> no idea how it maps to ubuntu but i guess it's similar
[20:57] <diddledan> popey: exactly
[20:58] <popey> so no different
[20:58] <isleofmandan> daftykins: yes, defaulted to US
[20:58] <popey> its called "factory reset" for a reason ☻
[20:58] <ali1234> factory reset isn't always factory reset (lenovo!)
[20:58] <popey> i used to like the asus eee 701/900 way of doing it in xandrois
[20:58] <popey> -i
[20:59] <popey> where you boot and hold f9 and it resets to factory
[20:59] <popey> by deleting the overlay partition which you were using
[20:59] <isleofmandan> Also, the 'Developer Edition' doesn't seem to have any dev tools. Only thing I've found above a standard install is VirtualBox. I was expecting magic cloud tools, and some sort of IDE.
[20:59] <ali1234> lenovos have a special button dedicated to factory reset... which shows how much confidence they have in their software
[20:59] <popey> dev tools = git i think ☻
[20:59] <ali1234> it turns out this lack of confidence is not misplaced, because the thing doesn't work
[21:00] <popey> heh, at UDS in prague someone stabbed the "Media" button on Jono's dell laptop, it booted into media mode, and splatted grub in the process
[21:00] <popey> was fun
[21:00] <ali1234> lolol
[21:00] <popey> turns out it was a great way to troll anyone with that laptop
[21:00] <popey> just poke the media buton
[21:00] <popey> +t
[21:01] <ali1234> on the lenovo you have to wait 24 hours after reset before you do the first boot into windows, or it errors out
[21:01] <ali1234> something to do with the broken way windows deals with the system clock, and the way NTFS records timestamps
[21:02] <popey> http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1937035674/leadwerks-build-linux-games-on-linux
[21:02] <popey> not looking bad
[21:02] <ali1234> $30,000 is cheap
[21:03] <ali1234> if it costs $x million to make an email client, how can these guys make a whole game creation system for $20,000?
[21:03] <popey> well, it already exists
[21:03] <popey> they're "just" porting it
[21:03] <ali1234> oh.
[21:03] <isleofmandan> Still, niggles aside, I've come out of my beer-induced impulse XPS buy quite happily. I've never owned a machine that can open the software centre in under 40 seconds before!
[21:03] <popey> haha
[21:03]  * popey tests how long it takes here from a fairly clean boot
[21:04] <popey> open in 3s, usable in 5s
[21:04] <ali1234> pretty much the same here
[21:05] <isleofmandan> My Intel Atom based desktop (which I'll never use again, it seems!) takes about 47 seconds to be useable. The thing launches in about 20 with a spinny thing, goes gray, white, gray, and finally loads
[21:05] <popey> sounds about right for atom with spinning rust
[21:05] <ali1234> hmm blender integration...
[21:06] <ali1234> lol, they want $150,000 to support any linux distro other than ubuntu
[21:07] <ali1234> and $250,000 for ubuntu mobile support
[21:07] <ali1234> LOL
[21:10]  * isleofmandan wonders where XPS 13 owners hang out? Is there an official support forum or anything?
[21:11] <popey> there's a dell community site
[21:11] <ali1234> ew
[21:12] <popey> well, indeed
[21:16] <isleofmandan> popey: Thanks just found it, along with the Launchpad bug pages.
[21:18] <neuro> i just spent an hour writing up a blog post about the pron filter stuff
[21:18] <neuro> squarespace just ate it
[21:18] <neuro> the words i have just uttered are unrepeatable here
[21:18] <diddledan> neuro: nasty
[21:19] <diddledan> but not as nasty as some prons :-p
[21:19] <daftykins> isleofmandan: ubuntu's installer used to do that for Guernsey and Jersey, it took over 4 years but it eventually got 'fixed' somehow - my bug report never got touched though so i don't know what happened
[21:20] <diddledan> we're at 7.1mil
[21:20] <isleofmandan> daftykins: I've not noticed the problem on 'stock' Ubuntu .iso's in the last couple of years, so assumed it was specific to this Dell setup.
[21:21] <daftykins> interesting
[21:26] <neuro> This is a total shadow of what i wanted it to be: http://neuro.me.uk/blog/2013/7/29/it-couldnt-happen-here-could-it
[21:27] <diddledan> neuro: you don't think squarespace might be colluding with the Britsh Government and censured you
[21:28] <neuro> ha
[21:28] <diddledan> stranger things have happened, but the British Government won't let me tell you about them :-p
[21:33] <ali1234> wait, why are the ORG running their own petition when there's one on epetitions already?
[21:33] <neuro> do you really think the e-petition one will have any weight, at all?
[21:34] <ali1234> yes, i explained why earlier
[21:34] <ali1234> if anything it will have more weight because when you look at it in context with the rest of the site, it obviously has much more support
[21:35] <ali1234> more support than all the other petitions on epetitions i mean
[21:36] <ali1234> precisely because online petitions are so trivial, you can only measure them in comparison with other petitions
[21:37] <ali1234> the ORG one doesn't even verify your email address is real :/
[21:38] <ali1234> signed it, anyway
[22:03]  * isleofmandan goes to bed.... Goodnight!
[23:20] <ali1234> disqus says "there could be consequences to changing your username. are you sure you want to do it?" what are the consequences? how can i even answer this question?
[23:24] <shauno> nicely worried.  you're not too attached to your kneecaps, right?
[23:24] <shauno> er, *worded
[23:46] <ali1234> hah. worried is more correct